It's so hilarious watching younger streamers and vtubers try to play Thief Gold. They are completely filtered by the game's keybindings. Like they don't know how to drop an item, once they picked it up. They only know how to throw it at full force ahead of them. So they always have to do some really weird moves to go somewhere quiet and launch it there.But that's not all. They have no idea how to deal with loud surfaces. They try running over it and always alert every enemy nearby. Then they try weird stuff like jumping on it. In the end they have to resort to moss arrows. Eventually if they are smart enough, they will try to walk in short bursts. But they don't have to do that! Garrett can actually walk, run, but also creep. And if he is creeping he will naturally not make any noise. But they have to actually configure the keybindings to a custom one to properly make use of that mechanic. It was also not intended for Garrett to always permanently crouch to not make noise. You can just creep and it's fine. It will also prevent weird noises being made, when bumping into stairs.Btw everything I just said here is true for most people, who ever played Thief. it literally has nothing to do with young people. Most people are retarded and get almost filtered by the game's keybindings without ever bothering to rebind them or even read them. The meme of Garrett throwing objects at full force against the wall, when he wants to drop an item, is very old.
I don't get watching noobs play or why these people have an audience. The only reason I'd ever prefer watching someone else play a game instead of playing myself is to learn something
>>743420620I am already an expert at the game, so no need to watch anyone else.
>>743420237who the hell is streaming thief?
>>743420237>It was also not intended for Garrett to always permanently crouch to not make noiseWHAT IS THIS HERESYthe only time Garrett shouldn't crouch is when walking on a carpet aiming to blackjack somebody
See what I mean?You can't really fault Zoomers for making the same mistake and permanently crouching, when older Millennials like >>743420960 also made the same mistake, because they didn't figure out how to creep. Seems like the game is just too high IQ for most people.>>743420931I am watching a stream from 2 years ago from a vtuber, who peeled fruits and opened a monster can with her feet.
>>743421087nigga i figured out how to creep but kept it for metal tiles in which case crouch+creep is the only way not to make noise
>>743421487Many people are too retarded though and aren't aware of this. They think the only way to be completely quiet is to crouch and then walk forward in slow bursts.
I probably have 200 hours in FMs and I think the default keybindings are retarded
>>743422385so what are the best FM's you could recommend? beside black parade for T1every time I wanted to play FM's I just replayed TMA...
>>743422541Not that Anon, but for Thief Gold I highly recommend The Scarlet Cascabel, Winds of Misfortune, Ascend the Dim Valley, Alcazar, The Sound of a Burrick in a Room, and Lost Among the Forsaken.For Thief 2, try Venomous Ambition, Reflections in Red, Compulsory Egress, Feast of Pilgrims, and Home Sweet Home.All high quality missions i've enjoyed recently and spanning a wide array of genres, can't go wrong with any of them. Happy taffing!
>>743423252you're a goldmine, anon, thank you!
>>743420237I played this when it came out and I too get filtered by its key bindings when I return to it>Btw everything I just said here is true for most people, who ever played Thief. Most people are retarded and get almost filtered by the game's keybindingsOkay yeah that's me, thanks. I feel represented.
what is a FM?
>>743424253Fan Mission.
I'll be getting the nightdive thief remaster, but moreso than just replaying Thief Gold, i'm most excited to see if they'll use/release an updated version of DromEd or maybe even an entirely new level editor. I'd love to make a FM but every time I sit down to try to learn how to use it, it just blows. I don't understand how FM auteurs have the patience to use this literal 1990s dinosaurware to make such detailed missions. Maybe i'm too much of a brainlet, idk>>743424253Fan mission
>>743424527>I don't understand how FM auteurs have the patience to use this literal 1990s dinosaurware to make such detailed missionsfrom what I remember it's just the standard Quake / Quake III editor... I mean it's not the same but follows the same philosophyyou get used to it quick
>>743420237to be fair the default keybinds are dogshiti always rebind them to my tastes eveytime I do a new install>t. 98 zoomer played thief gold for the 1st time in 2009
>>743420237>But that's not all. They have no idea how to deal with loud surfaces. They try running over it and always alert every enemy nearbyHow would this be possible when the very first level is a tutorial that will fail you since(my memory may be wrong here) the staircase you use to get to that instructor is metal?
>>743427135because tutorial is not mandatoryit's that simpleI always played it but only because I thought it was cool and added to the story...
>>743420237>playing casual dadshit like thief that's barely even a game>watching streamersMan you need a reality check
>>743429894There are zero games that actually capture the appeal found in Thief since 2000. Deal w/it.
>>743430307No one who enjoys stealth slop likes games, you've just been awkwardly shuffling about afraid to move on to a hobby that better suits you.
>>743430428nigger there are no stealth slop games, in fact there are very few non-slop stealth games because it needs an immense amount of effort (from game design/implementation perspective) to actually make a game where you don't have to KILL KILL KILL KILL KILL KILL KILL KILL KILL KILL KILL KILL KILL people to winyou fuckin murderous faggot>>743430307Dishonored is alright, although I understand what u'r saying as it uses magical powers
>>743424527>if they'll use/release an updated version of DromEd or maybe even an entirely new level editorIf they didn't for SS2 then idk why your expectations here would be any different. The FM sphere is still a niche within a niche. Actual FM devs would need to be employed at nightdive for this to happen. Just looking over the description on their website, the remaster looks even more barebones than I'd expect. At least the Doom 1 + 2 version comes with a new expansion, several already released ones like Sigil and a built-in menu for downloading mods.I expected from the getgo that this would be a cunthair more than what players could already play for the last 15 years.
>>743430428I think people tend to play a lot of different games anon. At least I do. You will never see the weaknesses of your favorite games if that's all you play. I can list lots with classic Thief, whether they're less significant shortcomings in the original maps or greater ones in the broader game design, but it still has an unmistakable draw to it that has never been replicated. That fact is represented by the FM community still making maps and players still uploading their runs online. Black Parade itself only came out 3 years ago.>>743430601The accuracy of Thief's sound and pathfinding interaction is something Dishonored barely has the programming to support, and I've tried. Just look at what high level gameplay of Dishonored looks like in the eyes of fans. It's a game best suited for using powers to make neat shit happen like stopping time to reverse bullets in a duel.
Which Thief is the best? The 2nd game? Or just play the 1st?I love Deus Ex so fucking much so I'm interested in the 3rd game too.As for the keybind thing, people are just retarded, but streamers in particular are the worst. And people just forget that these games came with a physical manual, it took me 3 seconds to find it and sure enough everything is explained.
>>7434315422nd game is much better. The developers learned from the mistakes of the past and delivered a thoughtful, considered, better-planned sequel.
>>743431542Anyone wanting to get into classic Thief should play 1 and 2. They're very similar and complementary with differing approaches to aesthetics, map design ideas and overall flaws. I generally prefer Thief 2 thoughever.
>>743431892>>743431740thanks, I'll just grab both, I miss stealth games bros.I prefer the sci fi/military kind usually, so I ignored thief for a long time.
>>743420237I'll be one of these people soon, it's moving up there in my backlog.
>>743431078>The accuracy of Thief's sound and pathfinding interaction is something Dishonored barely has the programming to support, and I've triedyeah Thief used SoundBlaster EAX which ironically is better than any shit that came out since it was discontinued in 2005programmers today need to use some shitty audio pathfinding implemented into unreal engine that is degrees below EAX
>>743431542Thief 2 is literally what you dream of when you hear of such a game. Thief 1 is some kind of a D&D story that's excellent in its own right but being a thief in the early modern period is just a pretext... Thief 2 makes it real.>I love Deus Ex so fucking much so I'm interested in the 3rd game too.Thief 2. Don't expect Thief 3 to be good. Thief 2 is the only real "Thief" game. Maybe play Thief 3 and Thief 4 out of curiosity but don't worry about abandoning them in disgust.
>What's that sound coming down the hallway?>Why, it's the sound of the "sound propagation" nerd who troubles each and every Thief thread! He's been dancing a merry and propagating tap from the RPG Codex all the way to 4chan. Surely you've heard him before?
>>743432974you are making it sound like it's some kind of witchcraft while in reality EAX is virtually no-effort to implement and works better than anything today
>>743432732Nah I don't mean EAX, that's just reverb effects. You can turn EAX off and it won't change how enemies or sounds behave. I mean how you set up "rooms" in dromed so that sound will accurately travel around level geometry (It's actually really jarring at times in Thief OMs when you encounter a poorly placed room where footstep sounds just travel through walls kek) and how enemies will respond to those, often in exploitable ways for openings. They'll respond to footsteps, jump landings, arrowheads or the sword hitting a hard surface, etc. This is where the LGS philosophy of simulating reality works outstandingly well in the game's favor.In Dishonored 1, I was fucking around with this by smacking the knife against a wall near a guard and the lvl 1 lightning bolt icon came over his head but he didn't move at all. iirc at lvl 2 he started a jank looking patrol but not really investigating the area where the sound actually came from. That what I mean when I say Dishonored is literally not programmed to be like Thief. I think that everyone who even draws the comparison is just being foolish.
>>743433575>You can turn EAX off and it won't change how enemies or sounds behave.except you'll literally hear them through the wallanon...
>>743433575>That what I mean when I say Dishonored is literally not programmed to be like Thief.Of course, you (if you excuse my french) fucking nigger. That was that anon's beef in the first place.At the end of the day we all want more and better thief games, especially since it's not possible in reality no matter how fit and smart you are.You ain't halping.
>>743433268It's not even worth it. You beat the game through the savescumming attrition of trial and error. EAX might add a layer of immersion at the outset, but that layer comes off when you dice with the erratic and primitive AI. You can't securely predict anything in Thief, you're always prodding the animal to see what will happen, and loading a save when it goes wrong, as it often does.
>>743433953>savescummingare we at an age when reloading ur saves is called "savescumming"? because back in my day you needed to at least exit the game for the "bad save" not to "take presence"
>>743434091I'm 41, and even when I was a teen in the nineties I felt a little pang of impropriety when I savescummed. But that guilt had its counterweight in the patently unfair nature of the games. You couldn't really get through Fallout 1 without savescumming. Same went for Deus Ex, same went for Thief 1.And I suppose my point is that it doesn't really matter if you have precise locational sound, because the game is built around frequent saves and reloads. Make a mistake? Reload. That's what you're expected to do.
>>743420878i'm a newbie that's still going through T2, but i want to know which fan missions are decent so i can play when i'm done. Gimme a list pls
>>743434849whoops, nvm, should have read the thread
>>743433639Not with a competently placed room, no you won't.
>>743434091>>743434759While the arcade bros tend to harp on it a bit too much, I do think that a lot of classic PC games lean way too hard on manual saving, especially those built around real time decision making, so more Thief than Fallout. It might even be said that the designers knowing that an unlimited quicksave exists affects how they design the game or the level. I'd say that at this point when I'm replaying a Thief OM, I prefer to go saveless or save only when an objective gets crossed off. But I still don't think that "where to save to not destroy the game's challenge" is one of the decisions the player should be compelled to make. Ironically, very immersion breaking. I think good challenge is when the player isn't holding back on any level and in a game with quicksaving, that will inevitably result in savescumming as the gameplay pressure climbs.
>>743434759reloading is not savescumming, you literal mental retardif you stop the game (e.g. by pulling the plug on a console, or ALT+F4 on a PC) from overwriting your last save, that's savescumming
jesus christ typing out ALT+F4 makes me feel ancient
>>743433953>You can't securely predict anything in Thief, if you fuck up and get a guard on your tail that's sort of on you, the roaming pursuer state is a bad thing you don't want to happen. you're supposed to read guard patterns and stay unseen.
so there's obvious limits to it, random trap deaths and death mantles, but for a game as seminal as thief savescumming at the most mild resistance kind of felt like a waste to me. thief is a one of a kind game, lgs only made so many levels, why blow through all of them in 20 minutes?
>>743420237I beat Thief 1 and 2 and I also only know how to throw items lelWhere the fuck did you hallucinate "younger streamers and vtubers" playing Thief Gold? Nobody is playing that shit they're streaming the newest friendslop or AAA game
>>743436017>if you fuck up and get a guard on your tail that's sort of on you, the roaming pursuer state is a bad thing you don't want to happenmore or less like in reality, from before they had telephone stations to call in reinforcements
>>743420237>Thief Goldthey already screwed up. The "lost" city shouldn't have people in it
>>743420237I severly doubt theres a lot of peopel streaming this
>>743420237No one plays that Uncslop, and I ain’t reading all that.
>>743424253Fag Massage
>>743437180damn that's crazy
>>743436946true
>>743424253Foetid Miasmaemanating from the tr*ckster
>>743431542Thief Gold is more polished than Thief 2. Thief 2 has quiet a few "ugh its this" missions, like following the letter carrier, casing the joint + casing the joint again, and the very last mission of the game. Then it has some absolutely godly missions as well.Thief Gold has a more consistent quality with the only really bad one being Thieves Guild. The other two missions added in from the base game are quite good, especially the opera house one.Both are 10/10 games.
>>743442660Sabotage at Soulforge is great. Absolutely sadistic, but it's the final level, it should be challenging.Masks would be perfectly fine if it was just a standalone mission and didn't have Casing The Joint right before it.
