Cheese status? TRACKED
>>743720172The loading screens have nothing to do with that functionality..
>>743720270
>>743720172Just wondering, how many autists really care about the precise position of items in the cell? What's even the purpose of it? To make the world stale that doesn't change after you leave it?
>>743720345That's cope from an incompetent dev.
After starfield feedback it'd be insane for microsoft to allow bethesda to keep doing the loading screens>so what did people do with the physics based trash items which coordinates are saved on the save file?>uhh like 5 people made funny youtube videos using the feature>and this is worth forcing people to see a black screen each time they enter a store with 1 npc?>yes
>>743720172Larian games actually do this, which is (a small) part of why I love them. It's like the open-ended and interactive nature of Bethesda games but with actually really good gameplay, better writing, and better quest design.
>>743720526Sounds like cope from you actually.
>>743720526Yet no other open world game, let alone those with open/enterable areas have that.
>>743720607>>743720606lmao. Are you actually retarded? Literally every single openworld survival crafting game.
Retarded tweet aside, it was pretty good to be able to just drop all my gold bars on the bathtub in New Vegas and have them still be there when I came back from another mission.
>>743720508I mean people literally do play around with the physics, buy the games houses, and put things on tables. It allows for various systems, and players can see evidence of things they've done. >>743720508I care about this sort of thing. CDDA has roaches spawn to eat the bodies of blob zombies the player killed. Modern games just resetting as though the player was never there is lame. RPGs are built around player choice. If the player can't do things, if in Kenshi you killed the Lord Phoenix, and wiped out half the town's garrison the Holy Nation just respawned like nothing had happened the game would suck.The player has to be able to do things, even little things.
>>743720554No they don't. Larian games have literal immortal NPCs, infinitly respawning items, and NPCs, and a select few heavily scripted permitted things you can choose between a binary on. They are so heavily scripted that items you're not supposed to have disappear from your inventory, and the people you killed to take them's corpse teleport into the scripted sequence. They've literally given interviews mocking the idea that players would want to steal the mayor's pants.
>>743720172Shit like this is why their savefiles are like 5GB because they're tracking the exact location and position of a horse dildo you dropped 100 hours ago.
>>743720172>lived long enough to see people defend gamebryothis wasn't on my bingo card
>>743721448Good.
>>743720270Yes they do. All Beth games on creation engine have "cells." You leave one to enter another, it'll load. That's by design.
why don't they just load rooms in the background when you get close to them, and unload when you leave? why don't they just store the item positions and unload the items when you leave the room?
>>743721569that would take someone who knows how to code.
>>743720345>>743720606>>743720607It's not impossible to implement this, it's just that it's difficult and Bethesda doesn't want to and/or can't do it.Management often has the view that technical pursuits like this aren't worth it as long as the engine is "good enough." They view content as the money maker and the engine as just a delivery vehicle. Extra time and money they spend working on the engine is time and money they take away from making new content.>>743721569It would likely require large overhauls of very fundamental parts of their engine code that was written years ago and few people in the company are familiar with. Rewriting such a core part of the engine would also require reworking everything that uses it and would be extremely bug-prone.
>>743721547its not like the 1 feature is special or gamebryo has special sauce caude for itother companies could do it, but they dont want the horrible drawbacksWitcher 3 had seamless loading with you not seeing loading screens unless you switched zones or fast traveled. That was in 2015 and theres no going back now.
Gamebryo is a complete piece of shit.
>>743720172>>743720345I don't get it how do games like Minecraft, Rust, Ark, Conan, Palworld, Subnautica, etc manage to have large persistent and in some cases multiplayer worlds where the player is literally terraforming the environment and not just making towers of cheese wheels? What do Bethesda games have that these don't that make it impossible for them to make seamless persistent worlds?
>>743722536https://www.videogamer.com/features/former-skyrim-lead-defends-bethesda-loading-screens-necessary-bane/thats one guys answer. The game stutters with current design coals unless they section world off into small zones behind loading screens.
>>743720345what a load of shit lol, there's nothing stopping you from doing cell based shit and having things load in and out based on distance from the player on the fly.they even already do this in a bunch of places, it is pure laziness so they can make rooms that are bigger on the inside than outside.>muh hitchingit's because you wrote a spaghetti mess and dont preallocate your memory up front like well written software does, knowing how to do this is not a "fancy trick" it's competent software programming.
People care about loading screens this much? Damn i guess i really am old
>>743723057Question: did you play starfield?answer: obviously not
>>743723057People care about not playing horrifically made games like Skyrim
>>743723105It's impossible to make them better, because Bethesda sucks at making games
>>743720345It's not impossible, it would just require scaling back the visuals or obscene hardware requirements (lol RAM).
>>743720172Don't the new Zelda games have persistent objects in the overworld?>>743723057I don't think people mind it if you're say loading into a Shrine once in a while. It's disruptive when you're doing it every minute walking into a house or cave, or worse yet doing loading screens in chains like Starfield
>>743720172Today on /v/ reposts retarded twitter posts because OP is a raging retard.
>>743723057there's no reason for them to exist in this day and age we know how to load things in and out based on distance, different stages of simulation fidelity, we can pool a billion objects in memory ready to use and reuse without every having to allocate.I wouldn't say it's incompetence, for a game like battlefield it would be weird to load in all the maps on startup only to not use most of them ever.but for an open world game where you can and always do go everywhere it makes sense for it to be seamless, we have the technology.
>>743723330>>Don't the new Zelda games have persistent objects in the overworld?No lol not even close. That shit will despawn right in front of you.
>>743722536None of those games have potentially hundreds of active physics items.
>>743720172It's over either way
>>743723758Im sure he just means reddit is used to train an llm and he asks the llm ideas for the games
>>743723792Oh wew, thanks for the thought anon, that's totally MUCH better
Me personally I'd rather have a fucking game that is actually fun rather than LE CHEESE WHEELS DROPPING ALL OVER LE PLACE XDDD
>>743721547Unreal 5 is so shitty that it makes that old son of a bitch look miraculous in comparison.And let's be honest, I've seen far, FAR more impressive shit done on it by people than in UE5.
>>743723738>No no no you don't understand I NEED Newtonian physics for physics for my pen and paper RPG sandboxIt makes even LESS sense that Bethesda games depend so heavily on an active physics engine when physics have NEVER played a major gameplay role any of their games.
>>743720702name one survival game that lets you put down small objects, like a ball or a toy. and you can flail around with it, push it, etc. Oh right... There is none, furniture and a bunch of chests is not the same thing.
>>743723924honestly yeah, who really gives a shit if that one iron dagger i left on the ground hours ago is still there? I imagine 99.9999% of people will never give a shit.
>>743721547For all its issues, having loading screens doesn't seem very high on the list.
>>743724010Yes I do need it. End of story.
>>743720904>literal immortal PCsBethesda games have tons of immortal NPCs as well, /v/ has made fun of Bethesda for how heavy-handed they are with protecting NPCs for literal decades now>infinitely respawning items and NPCsAgain, so do Bethesda games, with one caveat. you can't just farm the same exact area again and again, you have to wait a few in-game days for the enemies to respawn and the loot containers to refill. But there are more than enough spots on the map to cycle between that they're always refreshed by the time you return. It's what makes bethesda games such a joke, cause you can farm tons of money in very short order and just shop for the best gear and supplies.>and a select few heavily scripted permitted things you can choose between a binary onGuess what, Bethesda games have this too lmao. many quests in bethesda games have binary paths with different results, consequences, and rewards for your decisions. mainly side quests or guild/faction quests, but some main story quests as well. The infamous FO3 final main story quest being a classic example.>they are so heavily scripted that items you're not supposed to have dissapper from your inventory, and people you killed to take them's corpse teleport into the scripted sequenceBethesda avoids this by being even more heavy-handed from the get-go by just not loading in items they don't want you to have until the appropriate quest triggers are activated, and by making NPCs unkillable.>they've literally given interviews mocking the idea that player would want to steal the mayor's pantsthat sounds funny, link for that quote? Also Bethseda does this as well. If they don't want you to have an NPC's clothing/equipment, they simply mark it as being NPC-only so if you try to pickpocket or loot the NPC's corpse, it just never shows up in the inventory for you to take it. That NPC's armor is really cool looking? too bad, Todd didn't want you to have it so you don't get it.
>>743724115the problem is it ties into every other part of the gameYou cant get to the mid content without suffering loading screens. If the loading was seamless the mid content would seem less significant as you'd get over it faster and more conveniently while maintaining immersion.
>>743724229But the games load for like two seconds at a time.
>>743722324>Management often has the view that technical pursuits like this aren't worth it as long as the engine is "good enough."and they would be right in this instance because loading screens are a fraction of a second these days because everyone has an SSD
>>743724297not on my system, you might take 2 seconds to load when you exit the pilots seat in the cockpit but theres plenty longer interruptionsyou need to watch a black screen simply to enter a store with 1 npc in it, its horrible for immersion
>>743720172I just play all the quests, beat the dungeons and move on. Treating and wanting it to be more of a sim is a little insane to me over just making better dungeons and combat that doesn't fucking suck.They should just split TES5 into two different releases. Regular edition, good dungeons and combat, and Dumbass Vagina Edition, The Sims Medieval where you can build your gay little cheese shrines, care about object persistence and what quest-givers you can suck off into giving you the reward immediately with social checks.
>>743724010try playing the outer worlds or avowed and you see how soulless a bethesda-like game not in the creation engine feels like
>ITT: I want to abandon the one second loading screen for the 3 second door opening animation and willing to abandon persistent object, npcs, references in general for it
>>743724402The whole core appeal of ES is the medieval fantasy worldbuilding, lore, and feeling like you're living in it. If you just want good dungeons and combat there's thousands of games for that. There is fucking nothing quite like ES.
>>743724180Then enjoy your subpar gameplay I don't know what else to say.
>>743724680if you don't even like these games for what they are why the fuck should they even cater to you, just go play the witcher 3 or something
>>743724637>3 second door opening animationwhatimagine the poster quest in the mining city where you have to see multiple loading screens to accomplish fuck all rewards no loading screens means thats just a stupid quest with no payoff, with loading screens its like a fuck you from the game dev
>>743720508I dunno, Avowed highlights how much TES's structure relies on all props in the world being physical objects instead of being baked into the environment. Without that, it feels like it removed a core feature and limited everything from quest to level design.
>umm ACK-shually you can't make a totally persistent open world with thousands of physics objects chud it's just impossible so don't even try.Sounds like a skill issue to me.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG4HOKcQFxM
>>743724640Nah man, you hit goblins with swords. Best part.Honestly there's not a lot of first-person games where you hit goblins with swords that aren't some fuckass MMO or modern Unreal asset jank, so TES it is. I'm arguing in good faith by not comparing you to what the average New Vegas RPer.
>>743720172He has a point. The lack of such permanence is a part of why I didn't get into the online game when i tried.
>>743724765anon do you play on hard drive. I play skyrim on an SSD and loading screens are literally a fraction of a second. this is a literal nonissue.
>>743724928I got first ssd in early 2010'sits about:immersioncontinuitymodern game standards that create expectations in gamers its just fundamentally lame for your gaming session to be halted for no good reason moving around in a relatively small area
>>743724783your video literally doesn't show that, I don't think you understand what persistent means
>>743724442There's no difference lmao. Bethesda games do not have soul. My autism has spotted a critical flaw in human perception that effects soul evaluation: music. Motherfuckers do not evaluate the contribution of music and sfx nearly high enough in their own perceptions. What the fuck is soulful about skyrim? The wooden npcs? The occasional glitchy interaction? No, the root underlying cause here is music difference. It's always fucking music at the root of mediocre media franchises reaping undue praise. GTA? Music. Fifa? Music. Persona? Music. Undertale? Music. Hell even OG pokemon.
>>743725049>immersion>continuity>modern game standards that create expectations in gamersYeah they call that squeezing through the small crevice
>>743723738Skyrim is a popular game and people love it because of persistent items and physics? Are you retards all on drugs?
>>743725257well they certainly don't hate because it has loading screens
>>743725350Bethesda fans are braindead. It doesn't matter what they like or hate.
>>743725257Meanwhile one of the most spammed webms against Avowed was focused on showing a lack of objects bouncing off a table when you hit them and comparing it against oblivion where it did.
>>743725415I'm starting to think the loading screen stuff isn't really about hating the loading screen but just complaining about bethesda games. The same thing happened when people complained the games didn't have ladders.
>>743725530The loading screen complaints are largely because they were fucking HORRIBLE in Starfield. The whole game seemed designed to railroad you into loading screen after loading screen after loading screen, with zero reward for sticking around.
>>743725141yeah when hdds were a thing that was a thing smart devs came up with to not break immersion
>>743720172ideally some stuff would be put back to make it feel like the people are actually alive
>make stack of things in my player home>come back later>its all clipped through the floor and is gone forever
>>743725601because starfield was a fundamentally different game to a regular bethesda game. you fix loading screens and what are met with? Procedural worlds that aren't worth exploring. The engine is designed for player to explore a big hand crafted place on their feet not for space faring
>>743725601Because Starfield is not a single landmass like TESout.
>>743725610yeah and it's worse than a loading screen now when you have an SSD.
>>743725752modern games are made assuming one uses an ssd
>>743725817and bethesda was smart enough to not waste time on that crap and now it takes less than a second to load a new cell. talk about future proofing
>>743722536I'm remembering how every NPC in Oblivion had a hand structured day-to-day schedule leading to a lot of quirks.Like there's that infamous one about the baker that crashes the game if he eats bread and the mage dude in Skyrim's college that never sleeps because his search radius for his bed is slightly too short from where he normally is.But there's a lot of interesting ones in those games, one that I always found cool was the goblin clan war in Oblivion that most people never get to witness because it's usually over before a player would naturally see it.The point is it's less about the world and more about the game's structure itself. Those games you listed all have NPCs that just do random wandering in their designated zones. What USUALLY keeps some of Bethesda's older RPGs interesting is the handmade scripts and routines for their NPCs, like I still see posts from people where they didn't realise after Skyrim's intro when the NPC you followed tells you to split up and meet back in Riverwood you can totally just follow him and he'll have all kinds of flavour text interactions with stuff along the road with you like the Standing Stones.It's really easy to trivialise but the small things like that that add up. Not just NPCs but inventories like items being delivered to people or cell alterations like banners being taken down after a fight or decals being painted on walls. Bethesda can still definitely afford to upgrade or switch to a new engine but when you really get into the nitty-gritty of how their games work it does eventually makes sense why they stick with it.No idea about Starfield though that shit sucked ass. And there are definitely instances of their engine struggling to keep up with what they do like Fallout 4's settlements having lots of problems with loose props like display cases.
>>743720172
Bethesda has access to AI tools, im sure they'll fix their engine for future games using claude code
Loading screens arent a problem in Bethesda's engines, they can hide them entirely with scripted animations and scenes designed to mask loading. They just didnt think modern gamers would hate the idea of a loading screen flashing for a few seconds on a modern SSD's speeds. Starfield modders have successfully streamlined and hide all the loading screens in the game, in the end Bethesda are just a bunch of old nerds who grew up with loading screens and never saw them as an issue to address until modern gamers made a huge fuss about it.
You can build onions shrines in Deus Ex, what now
>>743726704Nah, Starfield was just designed in a retarded way to railroad you into endless back to back loading screens. It also had nothing memorable going on, so that's all people think of.A new TES game would have hardly any issue because there's not ten loading screens every five minutes.
>>743725141I'd rather have this than see a loading screen because it takes talent, skill and intelligence to make a whole scene to hide loading compared to a lazy ass loading screen.
>>743720508If you're the kinda fag who enjoyed decorating safehoues with useless knickknacks picked up from the world it is a nice QoL. It's another story when you get brained from a cabbage flying in at mach 5 because Havoc shat a brick again. There aren't that many instances where you need to physically pick things up and move them around outside of meme strats like beheading Elijah and stuffing him full of gold. Holding a barrel in front of you to stop bullets isn't a viable tactic across all encounters either.
Does the cheese rot, melt or something?
remember when people used to compare cyberpunk to starfieldI dont think people even consider that an interesting exercise anymore and simply consider starfield too regressive design wise Its more in the category of cautionary example of what not to do.
>>743726878Okay, now every building has a 30 second animation where you knock on the door, wait for someone to answer, then turn the doorknob before walking in.
>>743727084Yeah it's called immersion.
>Creation engine since skyrim>Creation engine was a tuned up Gambryo engine from OblivionJesus, they can't think of new ideas since 2011.
>>743727076>Its more in the category of cautionary example of what not to do.Cyberjunk certainly is.
>>743727135What should future games look at cp as something they shouldnt do?
>>743727076Starfield is more technologically more advanced than whatever cyberpunk does because that's more like a dumbed down GTA than a real RPG.
>>743720345
>cyberpunk includedlmao what a faggot
>>743720172At this point Bethesda can simply live off Skyrim rereleases forever and these idiots will rebuy all of them
>bethesda apologia ittholy hell i thought all the threads circa starfield's release were regular shilling, but turns out we really do have captive audience in herebethesda's problems are all entirely of their own making, and they are enabled by people who will play fallout 76 just because it's the only game that's kinda like itselfarx fatalis had persistent physics objects and NPC schedules in 2002 btw, it's just for all its faults the original wasn't a sprawling open world mess that is fucking impossible to fix or managewhile gamebryo shit is hell entirely of bethesda's own making, since again, their target audience is captive, only wanting those sprawling open worlds that break apart the moment any two systems interact
>>743727084Resident Evil did this and I liked it. Made it feel more eerie when you opened doors and didn't know what was going to be behind them. Elevators, small gaps, small simple tasks that hold you up are far way better than loading screens. What is this, 2011?
>>743727167All of it. The only semi-redeemable things in the entire game are some original songs made for the in-game radio.
>>743727358>I didnt play video gameteens just got to participate in discussions despite having nothing to say huh
>>743727325I don't think 30 second unskippable animations are better than 0.005s loading screens.
>carefully place my shit in my skyrim house>load in after leaving and it bounces around like there was a second of antigravity and falls on the floorwow totally worth it
>>743727221Its impressive how they can create algorithim worlds and have the ship building feature.However, those didnt help make the game experience itself better.You needed the world genning to have gameplay implications, fun exploration, resource extraction, outpost building to be important for overall progression. It wasn't, you teleported into a world and slowly walked into copy paste base for the quest objective and teleported out to return quest.You needed ship building to be similarly important, but it wasn't. Space aspect of it all was half baked, you didnt need to invest into ship building to complete the game so it felt redundant.Other studios could replicate the world generation part, no mans sky did as an indie studio, but starfields implementation wouldnt pass other publishers minimum standards of quality.
Without Creation Engine there will be no modding
>>743724010>physics have NEVER played a major gameplay role any of their gamesyou don't remember killing enemies with rolling logs, traps etc in Oblivion?
>>743726779If you save and load the game, will that shrine still be there?
>>743724769>it feels like it removed a core feature and limited everything from quest to level designWhen's the last time a Gamebryo or CE game made use of this shit for a quest? New Vegas?
>>743724115loading screens are bad and there's a reason designers have tried to avoid them
>>743720172>loading screens exist for a real technical reason herethe gothic remake has permanent item persistence, every npc has a daily routine, their own bed, home and inventory - it does everything a bethesda game does, but without loading screens
>>743727251Heh, I want to hear this cocky guy, when the layoff is incoming. The jeetesse will stick this chode in his throat
>>743727601I mean, there won't be an Elder Scrolls 6 or a Fallout not made by Obsidian period, so why worry about what engine they won't be on.
>>743720345>NesmithIs that the guy thats responsible for the enchittification of gameplay since Oblivion? Because they have a guy there that makes gameplay worse and worse, and has been at it since Oblivion. Every retarded mechanic in gameplay, like one ring slot and enchantment restrictions in Skyrim, or level-scaling in Obivion, F3, and Skyrim are his doings.
>>743720172I dont mind loading screens. They just need to be better, and not be a case of having to load on into a teeny-tiny cell with one bed and a shitbucket.
>>743720270why are zoomers such retards?
>>743727560Its much better in Fallout 3 and NV. Somewhat better in Oblivion. Near-perfect in Morrowind.
Cheese status?
>>743730920I was thinking of buying that
>>743727808He's not wrong that they haven't played a major role in a while, at least. Can't remember FO76 or Starfield doing fun physics shit, it just happens to be there.
>Not a single Bethesda game ONCE utilized it's persistent world or physics for ANYTHING>dude it's very important for videos of stacks of sandwiches and sweetrolls
Fuck you, hoarding gems and meticulously piling them in little bowls around my house is 33% of why I play Skyrim.This can be accomplished without loading screens, mind.
>>743720172Games inability to use instanced exteriors and interiors to simplify both design and performance is retardedWe'd have way better games if more of them designed themselves like STALKER in that sense.
>>743721569Incompetence. But really, it would require them to completely redesign their fucked city layouts where everything is crammed as close together as possible, because those areas would rape performance if you started loading half a dozen rooms that couldn't possibly fit inside the structure they're connected to at once because you walked into a market square.
>>743732192That's because it isn't actually persistent aside from NPC deaths, and even then their bodies vanish or randomly move around after a few in-game days.There used to be guides on where you could actually leave your shit without it disappearing because the world resets areas and containers over time.
>>743732192Yes, if I can't fill a room with gold bars or something then I'm not playing the game, one of my biggest issues with Starfield is that you can't refine resources into bars so I can't make tungsten bricks fort on my ship.
>>743720172>build cheese pyramid in an inn>return later>physics spazz out and sends cheese flying everywhere upon load-innow this is funny in its own way but come on nigtholomew
>>743721547Wasn't on mine either
>>743733471>play old game with soft body physics>game wasn't designed to run at 800fps>punch a guy>he gets sent into orbitkek
>>743720172The game literally has a system that allows you to stream levels, the loading screens are because Bethesda are lazy and don't want the levels to match up, even though with Starfield they actually built a system that allows you to see separate scenes from eachother.
>>743720172encoding and decoding object permanence wouldn't be hard. But Bethesda probably don't have any actual programmers left
>>743724023Literally modded Minecraft, but also yes it is the same thing from a functionality standpoint.
>>743720172>you can build a cheese wheel shrine and it stays that wayfor two in-game weeks lmao until the cell respawnsone of the first things you learn is that you can't leave your shit in random containers because it'll fucking disappear, which ends up being pretty much the main and only reason to ever bother buying a house - for the non-respawning container you can store all your junk inwhen you're conditioned to not interact with the rest of the world because you know, from painful experience of losing a bunch of valuables, that it's ephemeral and everything will fade away and get reset - that doesn't give a feeling of "object permanence"
>>743720172>omg I am such a NERD I LOVE rpgs xD>look inside>retarded physicsslop with no impact on the actual gameplayBehead bethesdradrones.
bump, kill this shitty board with more twitter screencaps
>>743720345they could get rid of the loading screens now, just make worse graphics and don't use gaytracing and shit
>>743724928Do you not have mods?
>>743737224loading screens are about loading assets, whether the game renders with gaytracing or not has no impact
>>743725478That was just /pol/roaches throwing shit at a wall after it was decided that Avowed was le wokey dokey.
>>743725124I noticed this with e33 last year. E33 was so fucking bad but for the normalfags they just needed to hear the very well designed OST and spouted 10/10 GOTY from those vibes alone. Without the OST it's literally just a janky UE store asset flip.
>>743720554>better writingNormalniggers will just lap up anything you vomit onto a plate so long as it's popular
>>743737408I never cared for E33 music at all because the game looks like a huge blurry mes even on a 5090
>>743720345OpenMW only loading screen appears when starting a game or loading a game.
The loading screen thing was litterally only a problem for console peasantsPC with an SSD, it takes 3 seconds maxMeanwhile, PS and Xbox players could get up and clean the kitchen before their dungeon loaded.
>>743737567retard
>>743737515It forces you to use AI upscaling shit on every setting yeah.
>>743736003kek you btfo that bethesdaunc
>>743737307there are loading screens because the game can't handle so many objects visible at oncejust make worse graphics
>>743722536Extremely low precision. I mean surely you can see the difference between a table of alchemical goods that shift when you touch them, and a massive static wooden wall
>>743724220cope
>>743724769Picking up physical items in the dungeon and striping corpses naked when looting adds a huge amountDon't understand why so many RPG's don't include that feature at least
>persistence of muh cheeseUh yea so UM no... that's a lie.So the position coordinates of a thousand cheeses isn't why we need loading screens. In fact that claim is evidence that the x user likely got their opinions from reddit or AI which is trained on reddit posts with more than 3 upvotes.So loading screens in skyrim are completely a "feature" (not a bug) of a poorly designed game engine. The xitterer probably doesn't know very much about computers or how video games work.The creation engine in particular is actually very poorly made.You can move text from your ssd onto ram without a loading screen, though how you do it for this game needs to be somewhat clever... the problem? bethesda devs are probably stupider than bricks.In fact the original claim is just outright wrong. The entirety of your skyrim world is NOT on ram, are you stupid enough to believe all of Tamriel fits on an xbox's memory?NO, but that is exactly my point, they already don't use loading screens when you're moving through chunks of Tamriel because they can efficiently swap from ssd to ram.The loading screens happen specifically when you enter a new dimension like whiterun where you literally have to swap the memory of Tamriel with Whiterun. And they rely on this lazy fix so much they even make you dimension hop when you enter a fucking building.That is what a loading screen is, it's literally just swapping memory, has very little to do with cheese because it would still load with or without six gorillion cheese in your house. Though I could get into how their save file system is complete ass and buttfuck retarded, but all I will do is end with a question: did you not play starfeid? And do you really think they will fix their 90s duct taped engine for the 2050 release of tes6?
>>743720172both are retarded, but the original faggot moreso>muh no loading!it IS loading, thats why the world is made up of long, dragged out corridors or slow door animations. This is why the world feels too big, to slow you down so it can load during playLoading screens are fine and were always fine, and paradoxically arent shown to impact immersion anywhere near as much as unrealistic design or purposefully delaying the player.Second guy is a retard for defending slop, bethesda, and cheese permanence. OP however is the turbo retard faggot for making this thread, fuck you OP, kill yourself
>>743720345>>743722536that's bullshit, simple as
>>743727313>Uhh that's an OLD gamePrey had it too llell
>>743720172>>743720345Do uncs expect me to read all that shit?
>>743738953I honestly do find it interesting how outdoors cells actually HAVE seamless loading. And this includes many villages and shit. But almost entirely arbitrarily, interiors are all mandatorily unloaded. It's really weird.
>>743720345I dont aee how thats a problem
>>743720508>build a pyramid of cheese>proud of yourself>walk out of your safehouse>fuck around for a while, quit game, launch it again next evening>come back to your cheese dungeon with more cheese to add to the pyramid>the game only remembers rough positions of the cheese wheels>they all clip into each other>cheese explosion>hypervelocity cheese wheel snipes you in the head, dealing massive damage>have to eat all the cheese wheels you brought just to survive
>>743737585No. OpenMW can also run Fallout 3, Fallout NV Oblivion and Skyrim ESPs. Bethesda has show how gay, ashkenazi, pajeetish they are.
>>743720172>He doesn't understand that UE is the problemYou can load anything in unity in real time yet any game based off UE will shit the bed
>>743740117Indoor cells are often utterly packed with interactive objects compared to the relatively sparsely populated exteriors. Chairs, tables, shelves, shit on the shelves etc. that's only economic to load in if the exterior world isn't around to eat up resources. The Creation Engine is inefficient in terms of object retention, and the performance cost of a resource-intensive scene rises exponentially as the engine struggles to juggle object properties, positioning, physics etc. every tic.Originally Bethesda were limited by the computational capacities of the OG Xbox (Morrowind), X360 and PS3. More recently, the limitation is on the graphical side instead, due to the Creation Engine still being a forward-rendering engine. Unlike on modern deferred rendering engines, (dynamic) lighting and shading become much more expensive much faster as the environment's complexity increases, thus loading screens and chopped up environments are still needed in games with dense, detailed assets such as Starfield.
>>743740820>forward renderingThe only rendering type that actually supports anti-aliasing btw
>>743740902True. MSAA and true transparency are possible on forward-rendering engines because the rendering pipeline renders every mesh in full, even if they're occluded. This is massively costly if you have a lot of complex meshes and/or a lot of dynamic lighting in the scene. Bethesda tries to alleviate their performance issues by sneaking occlusion planes here and there in their game world, preventing certain meshes from rendering from certain positions.For example, if all you see on your screen is the outer wall of a building, everything behind that wall would still be rendered in full if not for the occlusion plane hidden inside the building.Deferred rendering engines figure out what's visible in the player's viewport and only render those parts of the meshes. This means MSAA can't get mesh edge information out of the scene, and transparency becomes a nightmare because the occluded parts of the meshes simply aren't present in the image anymore. The performance in complex scenes is vastly improved, but you have to use subpar methods such as TAA and dithering to achieve antialiasing and transparency.
>>743741181I don't know enough about how rendering works, but you seem to know your stuff, so I'm curious: how come the visible mesh edges aren't enough for MSAA? It's not like you need to anti-aliase edges that are literally invisible, since they're not rendered on the screen.And for true transparency, wouldn't deferred rendering simply consider a transparent object to be non-occluding (thus rendering the stuff behind it)?
>blah blah blah corpo PR speak blah blah blahexcuses, excuses...
>>743740078We expected you to grok it you lil tard
>>743741408>how come the visible mesh edges aren't enough for MSAA?Quite simple. In forward rendering, each mesh is rendered in full and you can identify them as separate objects. You can trace their edges and smooth them perfectly with nothing else intruding on your algorithm. Each mesh rendered is its own unique pass, and for each mesh lighting and shading is done on the fly. Multiple passes, increasing as the scene complexity does.In deferred rendering, the engine sort of calculates the visibility of all meshes, disregards shape data and lighting, flattens everything, and only then starts calculating all the lighting and postFX in a single pass. Since the mesh information is just a flat image, the MSAA algorithm has very little to work with.If you've used Photoshop or other image editing software, you can think in terms of layers. Forward rendering retains each object in its own layer, while deferred rendering flattens them all into one image, and only then starts painting in the detail.
>>743741408>wouldn't deferred rendering simply consider a transparent object to be non-occludingAnd yes, this is how deferred rendering engines handle windows (fully transparent objects with possible shaders/textures layered on for a material feel). I should've specified semi-opaque or varying transparency objects, for example, 50% visual passthrough. Deferred rendering engines can't handle this, as for them it's all or nothing.Thus, if you have an object that isn't truly transparent but still needs to pass visual information through in parts, you're forced to use dithering. Pic related is how it ends up without heavy postFX AA acting on it. Cloud's hair has to be dithered to emulate some parts of it letting visual information through, as the engine can't do 1-99% transparency, and so on.
>>743741824I'm guessing some kind of hybrid mode where everything is occluded, but the 3D information visible in the viewport is preserved, wouldn't work for some reason?>>743742124That's insane to me.
>>743742365>I'm guessing some kind of hybrid mode where everything is occluded, but the 3D information visible in the viewport is preserved, wouldn't work for some reason?It might, I don't remember seeing anyone try. Maybe retaining simple mesh information in "layers" for AA but leaving the lighting pass for later, deferred-style. I'm not technical enough to research this approach, unfortunately.We're on deferred engines basically because AAA games needed to continue looking (technically) better year after year on console hardware, and any hybrid approach will still bring extra performance overheard with it, so the people pushing this tech are very unlikely to try. They'd rather push TAA instead.In a way, I have to throw Bethesda a bone for sticking with a forward-rendering engine in this current industry and still managing to make their games look at least passable while fill them with all the clutter they do, without scorching GPUs around the world. That said, they're also making their jobs a lot harder for themselves by sticking with the old.
>>743720172>make cheese shrine>leave house>enter back to house later>cheese at bottom clips into other cheese>shrine fucking explodes>one cheese hits a bucket>ricochets off wall>kills me instantly>auto save puts me back on house entry>an eternity of cheese powered bucket shrapnel awaits meSee this shit is actually kino and I appreciate it, but a game that takes 12+ years and a billion dollars to make should be entirely free of jank, I expect it to be perfect for that cost. This is Bethesda, so I'll just wear a helmet when I walk indoors.
>>743742720>It might, I don't remember seeing anyone try.I would expect some of the rendering autists in the industry have probably written off the approach if nobody uses it. Then again you might be right that it's just cheaper to use TAA.The thing is they're also pushing shit like raytracing which is immensely expensive to render, a lot of the time for relatively minimal gains, or overusing UE5 shit like nanite resulting in games struggling to hit 60fps on a 5090. So it's not like modern devs are that concerned with performance.>In a way, I have to throw Bethesda a bone for sticking with a forward-rendering engine in this current industryYeah agreed.
>>743727993Yes actuallyon the other hand Deus Ex also has large save sizes, and if I recall the game deletes the object data of previous levels once you pass a point of no return
>>743720345Does this shitty engine even support level streaming? Why can't it solve issue of being forced to have loading screens?
>>743743802>Does this shitty engine even support level streaming?It does, the exterior areas are all streamed.I dunno I guess interiors are just too detailed for the engine to handle, so it can't handle streaming all the house interiors that are within walking distance at once while you're in a city, or something
