NPCs you can't kill because reasons are a blight on their games

While I agree that being leader of all the guilds is very silly, I like the decision to be able to 'do everything'. I don't want to be locked out of a long questline because of a blind choice made 30 hours ago.
Maybe a compromise is that you can enter and do most of the questlines for all 3/4 guilds, but you can only choose to be the leader of one of them, and then get the last few endgame quests as your chosen faction.

>>743732406
>The single biggest problem with Bethesda
They are beholden to their studio name. Creative, smaller, focused teams should have been made from the key talent to hyper focus on good gameplay, good world building, and evolving their respective franchises/focuses.

>make a spear/medium armour fighter
>Can't advance fighters guild rank because I don't have the skills
It's time to admit arbitrary skill requirements were a mistake.

>>743732406
CnC is the weakest form of interactivity in games. A canned dialogue tree is infinitely inferior to reacting to environmental pressures, and those interacting to you in turn. I think this is why rpgs are bad in general. Something that was relegated to 1% of a module is now 100% the focus of rpgs in video games.

>>743732406
Why the fuck no one makes a game like oblivion or fallout that is not shit, it prints money.

>>743732618
>I don't want to be locked out of a long questline because of a blind choice made 30 hours ago.
That's fucking life, dude. You're locked out of millions of choices every day. That's what makes the choices you DO make meaningful.

i don't mind if you can join all the factions but i don't want to be leader of all them nor do i want yet another internal turmoil story about how the present leader betrayed everyone and ran away.

>>743732406
You're wrong about that.
The people at Bethesda are 100% convinced their writing is outstanding and a hallmark of consequential, impactful, ludonarrative excellence.
For every "choice" they add, they pat themselves on the back for having dragged the entire medium, kicking and screaming, forward into the light of their creative genius.

>>743734418
But it isn't life, it's just a game

>>743734541
>you can join all the factions
This is your choice.
>be leader of all them
This is the consequence.
>internal turmoil story about how the present leader betrayed everyone and ran away
Every good story needs conflict :)

>>743732406
Like anyone plays TES for superior gameplay or questlines. It's a vibe kind of game, where you have unbothering adventures in artistically beautiful world while enjoying Jeremy Soul's soundtrack. The game philosophy is about letting you do whatever the fuck you want. It's a vagrant simulator.

>>743732406
What you're saying is in no way a problem. The main quest is independant from the fighters guild/companions which is independant from the mages guild/colege which is independant from the thieves guild and such. Joining all of them doesn't impact the writing because as far as they're concerned the other faction quests doesn't exist. It's only a problem in a meta way if you, the player, are so into roleplaying that even the possibility of joining all guilds breaks your immersion.

>>743732618
>you can enter and do most of the questlines for all 3/4 guilds, but you can only choose to be the leader of one of them, and then get the last few endgame quests as your chosen faction.
Then you'd just have to play the whole game again to do the same for other factions, with the added possible downside of some end quests and rewards being worse than others. It doesn't make sense gameplaywise to lock players out of factions in a game that doesn't have narrative choices.

>>743737817
Exactly! It's like a themepark! You paid for your ticket, so you can go on all the rides. Ultimate freedom without any responsibility. You're welcome, by the way.

>>743734541
>another internal turmoil story about how the present leader betrayed everyone and ran away.
That happened once with the thieves guild and twice with the dark brotherhood.

Why does every game have to be infected with niggers?
What good thing has ever come out of africa?

>>743732406
>deathly afraid of choices having consequences
I don't think ti's a matter of being afraid of it.
It's a lot of work to implement. It's just far more simple and less effort to have everything veer to the same overall choice.

>>743737891
You wrote that in a cheeky way but that's pretty much the idea and it's not bad at all.

>>743732406
I would be fine with the story not locking you out of the game just forced you to commit to builds. All of the writing in Bethesda games is garbage. Quests are basically just a thing you do to get money and XP. Builds however can really help to differentiate playthroughs and make them feel unique. Fun themed builds are the lifeblood of FNV replays. They give you a very clear goal: achieving viability while operating under a certain set of self-imposed rules. E.g. being a cowboy one playthrough, or a ww2 soldier with an m1.
Bethesda just lets you be every single build I guess because they’re probably afraid that players are going to regret their choices and want to change their build halfway through a save.

>>743738143
They dropped fixed classes after Arena. You can just not use magic or swords if it's what you want. Why would you want to have the game itself force builds on you?

>>743738314
I just explained it. Achieving viability while operating under a set of self-imposed rules feels satisfying. Playing FNV and deciding to only used silenced pistols and then finally getting to the point where you feel powerful is rewarding. Starting off the game already strong and only getting even more OP from there isn’t rewarding at all. Maybe it’s fun for like an hour, like using cheats, but there’s no journey or progression. You mostly just stay the same and get marginally better over time.

>>743738314
>Why would you want to have the game itself force builds on you?
Unique restrictions and unique opportunities are why people play games to begin with.

>>743738638
Perhaps you do, but you can't make such a gross generalization.

>>743738436
Self imposed rules implies you yourself are limiting your options, so keep doing that. Nothing is forcing you to use every single magic school and weapon type. Having the game force such limits on you only makes everyone else be forced to play the way you think it's best.

>>743738669
Everything specific is a unique set of restrictions and it's why you prefer certain things over others, because certain restrictions appeal more to you than others.
Good RPGs let you select your restrictions.
A game with fewer restrictions is less of a game and less enjoyable, objectively.

>>743738740
The self-imposed part is the selection of a build. Do I want to be a cowboy, a mall ninja with a camo AR, a retarded junkie with a switchblade, etc.
Then from there you make a series of tactical tradeoffs in an effort to optimize your limited pool of levels and perks to try and make them work as efficiently as possible for your build.
Shit man, optimally exploiting scarce resources is like the most fundamental aspect of human psychology there is. Remember use every part of the buffalo?

>>743732406
They should rollback on the realism crap and just make like a turbo Daggerfall and go all in on sandbox and simulating cities, wilderness, and dungeons.

>>743738941
Or I could just use whatever weapon or spell I want whenever I want, it's a game, what is this comparison, there are no 'scarce resources'

>>743738941
That's not self imposed, that's an inherent limitation, like picking a class in Final Fantasy 1. You can choose the class, but it's not like you ever had the option to have all of them.
>Remember use every part of the buffalo?
I have never heard this phrase in my life. Regardless, gameplaywise there's nothing stopping you from playing with a defined set of weapons or magic other than yourself. Besides, from your description you want a game that is unlike every Elder Scrolls released.

>>743739082
Correct, there are no scarce resources in Skyrim. Everything is infinite. Infinite levels infinite perks infinite build complexity. And that’s why every Skyrim character is identical: wizard stealth archer enchanter blacksmith with a legendary daedric sword with a +99999999 damage flame enchant on it.
NV conversely forces you to play builds, and it makes every playthrough feel unique.

>>743739202
It really doesn't, what weapon I have in my hands when I click on ghouls is not enough to set playthroughs apart when I'm still trudging through the same world and talking to the same leather-faced NPCs

>>743739202
>NV conversely forces you to play builds, and it makes every playthrough feel unique.
Truth of that statement aside, unique doesn't equal good and scarcity doesn't equal fun.

NV is also prob not a good comparison here because that one also lets you easily end up with every skill maxed out without even trying to cheese it

>>743738946
Starfield

>>743739315
I think uniqueness is a good thing, relatively speaking, when you consider that Bethesda-style games are meant to be replayed, and indeed often are. Something which helps to shake the game up and maintain interest in successive replays is better than a system that encourages players to only play in one single way.

>>743738740
Self imposed rules are shit. It's the players job to break any rule you can and explore every avenue of opportunity. If every door is left open, there's zero fun in seeing what's inside.

>>743739485
The whole point of an open world is to give you a million doors to open, if you want as few doors open as possible for maximum fun then you want a linear narrated experience instead

>>743739554
But it’s not about opening fewer doors. It’s about opening as many doors as you can while the game tries to stop you. When you think ahead, plan well, and open up a whole bunch of doors and thwart the game’s attempts to stop you, you feel good. You are playing a GAME, after all, and this is one of this particular type of game’s win conditions.

>>743739483
Aside from my belief that using a different kind of damage stick would not make a new playthrough any more or less fun, all forcing builds would do is make everyone gravitate towards whatever the strongest build is. If people are currently, as you ssy, doing wizard stealth 9999 armor or whatever, then they'll just do the next best thing if that's not an option. Worse, they'll search beforehand the best builds since now they got to commit to a choice. They won't play multiple ways, just one way that's severely limited compared to having all options available.

>>743739696
Not this game. Elder Scrolls wants you to try everything and have fun doing so. If your idea of fun is being stopped from experimenting, you want a different game.

>>743739707
If people want to minmax a singleplayer game, then let them. As you say, they were literally already doing that in TES games. Adding strict classes would only guarantee that at least a few more people would commit to fun, themed builds while everyone else metagamed like they were doing anyway.

>>743739770
There is no experimentation in TES, though. There’s literally only one build that everyone plays. Experimentation would require constraints that you have to adapt to or overcome.

>>743732406
>The single biggest problem with Bethesda and its writing is that they are deathly afraid of choices having consequences. Should the leader of the Fighter's Guild also be the archmage of the Mage's Guild?
You are an autistic faggot that should be killed.

>>743739837
>at least a few more people would commit to fun, themed builds
That group is very, very small compared to everyone else, anon. Counterintuitive as it sounds for an rpg, most people aren't interested in "themed" builds and such. And if they are, they can already do that by simply not using whatever falls out of their intention. As you said, it's a singleplayer game, so why not use everything? Why force builds when you can actively choose which spells, armor and weapons you want? Such limits wont make your way of playing more popular anon, just piss off whoever doesn't like it.

>>743737891
This faggot wants to feel hardcore by playing skyrim

>>743739897
Do tell what is the build everyone plays. You got several types of magic and weapons and you can choose whichever conbination you want, and so experiment with all if them. The difference is that yiu don't need to start a whole ass new playthrough to try something else or change something you didn't like. Again, you want a whole other type of game.

>>743739897
Being able to change your build doesn't mean you're not still playing a build

>>743732406
Based, we should return to the morrowind era where its difficult/impossible to lead several factions due to conflicts

>>743740148
>Do tell what is the build everyone plays.
wizard enchanter stealth archer heavy armor sword and board blacksmith alchemist
>>743740204
you're not changing anything, you are all the builds simultaneously. The only thing that changes is whether you currently have your OP enchanted sword equipped, OP enchanted bow equipped, or one of the endgame spells equipped at any given time.

>>743732406
Playing devil advocate:
From game design standpoint, its hard to impose replayability if the game itself already hav a lot of content; people would think that its a big, massive chore to do everything all over again, and to progress everything from 0 again, more on this later.
Lets take a look at skyrim first. Skyrim is a big game inb4 4u and its bigger than morrowind both in exploration and content. Its easy to replay a morrowind playthrough over and over again; if you dont like the character that you just build or find a wrong skill set in your character sheet, you can just simply scrap your profile, start a new game, and go through the usual procedure in seyda neen; if you try to do the same thing in skyrim with 15 minutes of unskippable intro or where the player already found a shitload amount of fast travel landmark, get themselves a good enchanted loot, or maybe discovered lists of alchemical ingredients, then they are going to seethe over the fact that they have to start all over again and do that stuff all over again. Consequences are one thing that modern players hate in their vidya, and the reason is simple: because they grew up. The same players that used to spent hours in morrowind and oblivion are now working 9-5, sometimes doing nightshift, some are having families, or drown in liquor, none of them have the same amount of time to play video games like they used to anymore (remember skyrim was released in 2011, this is the state that original elder scrolls players doing in their late teenager age back when the economy was still fine), so with that in mind game designers obviously have to tone down the entire consequences that their players have to go through.

>>743740045
>That group is very, very small compared to everyone else, anon.
I don't think that's true at all considering how well-known NV is for encouraging build variety while TES games are well-known for having none.
>Why force builds when you can actively choose which spells, armor and weapons you want?
Because making progress towards a tangible goal is fun. Starting off terraria and sucking ass at everything until you unlock more mobility and damage options is fun because of the payoff. Imagine if on the other hand you started terraria and all builds were viable. You are level 1 and can already solo the moon lord with the magic spells that the game places in your inventory upon game load. All mobility options are given to you immediately but you can level them up to make them go 1%/2%/5%/10%/15% faster! If turning on the game is the peak payoff, then everything else is downhill from there.

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>>743740723
Eh, no? There's all this crap

>>743740991
most perks are just marginal stat increases, and the base game is already so easy that you hardly need them.

>>743741052
So like NV then

>>743741167
yes but the difference is that NV has limited perks and levels so you have to budget them properly to achieve a viable build, whereas in skyrim your build is always viable but if you invest everything into one perk tree early on, you can use that one build to faceroll all vanilla content while you marshal the resources you need to flesh out all the other builds.

>>743741270
How much time do you think the average Skyrim playthrough gets from a person

>>743740945
>I don't think that's true at all considering how well-known NV is for encouraging build variety while TES games are well-known for having none.
You say that but both if these seem to be your opinions that you're passing as well known. In NV all that changes is you're doing pew pew with a different boomstick and even then you can get good with pretty much everything and you have quite some options in TES so you're just objectively wrong unless you consider all of them to be available simultaneously to not qualify as variety. Your Terraria example just solidifies you want a game that's not in any way Elder Scrolls.

>>743741353
Quite a bit, considering that it’s still getting played and talked about 15 years after its release

>>743741270
Resources? Anon you level up a skill by using it. You only need resources for enchanting, smithing and alchemy. You can do all content not because all options are available, but because the game level scales with you, a system that's also in New Vegas.

>>743741480
That's not the same thing as wether or not someone usually pours the kind of hours in needed to go well beyond the main story and start using the prestige system