Is this accurate?
>>743734012How the hell am I supposed to interpret this? Fun things are not good and vice versa?
>>743734012>fun cant be goodi think you're just retarded, even ignoring the placement.
>>743734012It’s all art
>Mona Lisa goodNormie ahh chart
>>743734087fun is a buzzword
>>743734012Art in games is tied to gameplay. Like obviously someone playing dohdawnpatch well is more aesthetically pleasing than playing it badly. I'm certain everyone has been frustrated before seeing one of their favorite games played badly, and understanding this is key to understanding what makes a game truly good. If a game looks good while you're playing like shit something is probably wrong there.
>>743734153are you sexually frustrated?
>>743734182Video games?
>>743734087sounds like a /v/ banner sentence
>>743734012Hello. I am RCWaldun, the creator of this image. Unfortunately the graph has upset many people and it is entirely my fault. I intended to add a Z-axis with Skill vs Skinner Box, but alas I am not good enough with computers. I was simply trying to help categorize art because I am a critic. Obviously without all dimensions my efforts fell flat.
>>743734254yesnow answer
>>743734330No, my general misanthropy pretty much cancels out any chance a desire for intimacy could exist.
>>743734153Are you saying a video game needs to be played to be art? If I'm shitty at SMB3 but an expert at Bubsy 3D, Bubsy is the better art?
>>743734012>Bullet hell>ArtLmao
>>743734361okay
>>743734012I just feel like Nintendo should be way more in the bottom left
>>743734012The Art/Product dichotomy is equally retarded in 2026. Products = Art.
>>743734403It's more like thishttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_aestheticsThe art is in play, and the game can be evaluated in its capacity for that. So when you are driven to replay a game, to understand and play it better than before, you are directly engaging with its aesthetic and are driven by it. It's not necessarily unique to games, but it's different from playing music versus listening to it I feel, although people surely enjoy watching others play games, so there must be aesthetic value there not likely found in mere presentation.
>>743734403>Are you saying a video game needs to be playedWOAHSLOW DOWN THERE BUDDY
>>743734575Have you told this to Mark from the Electric Underground?
>>743734653You can tell him for me.
>>743734012Who is that striking legal-aged woman in the top center?
>>743734575You didn't answer my question, bitch. Bubsy 3D played well or SMB3 played poorly?
>>743734769Obviously bubsy played skillfully is more entertaining than smb3 played badly, although obviously smb3 has a higher capacity for more interesting and skillful play, so much so that it would be extremely unrealistic this comparison would exist in reality.
>>743734728
>>743734876>extremely unrealistic this comparison would exist in reality>can't imagine a kid playing SMB3 bad and Pete Dorr crushing BubsSo being entertaining is the end-all-be-all. huh? Guess I know where your favourite games fall on the graph. lol
>>743734972>So being entertaining is the end-all-be-all. huh?Well yeah games should be fun
>>743735073lowest IQ take
>>743735073but what is fun?
>>743734012Everyone is made at this but think of it in food terms. Broccoli is better for you than pizza but pizza is more fun. So if you eat too much pizza you will get fat whereas if you eat a lot of broccoli you will learn to love the flavour
>>743735195And what does funniness even mean?
>>743734012Isn’t wd40 toxic?
>>743734012schizo + esl all tied into one image, impressive
>>743735352there;s literally nothing schizo or esl about the image. fuck off
>>743734012No
>>743735195Games which best exercise the parts of our brains evolved to enjoy play. In the wild, offspring of animals who involve themselves in play more frequently survive than offspring who do not, despite this being a great energy expenditure and risk of injury, because it develops functions that are greatly beneficial to long term survival, so we are hard wired to enjoy play and dare I say have "fun."
>>743735261It's basically feeling good temporarily vs feeling good long termThe pizza will only make you feel good initially but make you feel bad laterOr you will just eat the pizza only occasionally and have very temporary pleasure that isn't sustainableIf you want to feel good long term you have to overcome some initial hurdle first that may seem counterintuitive
>>743735418This guy gets it
new premiere v bait image
>>743734012name one game with more gameplay density than mowing the lawn
what game is the blonde from next to silksong
'g 'n 'g
>>743735619can't support this guy after the allegations
>>743735418It's moreso that some people enjoy food and others enjoy eating.
>>743735403there is no non-schizo reason to combine videogames, movies, paintings, and fucking appliances into one graph.you have cast your net so wide you have failed to make any point.
>>743735664woah.
>>743735668what the fuck are you talking about you fucking idiot. that's the point of the fucking graph, retard, to chart things. fuck youre stupid
>>743735852why don't you include body parts and animals and music and your bowel movements if the point is to just chart things you shitskinned dyke
>>743735418This is also in essence the issue of toleranceYour body naturally gains tolerance to thingsThat's just how it works you can't stop it and it literally happens with basically everythingThis can be used both against you and to your advantageYou can gain tolerance to pleasure as well as pain, comfort as well as discomfortWhatever you do repeatedly that is what you will gain tolerance toIf you play a game that is only "fun" you will grow tolerant to that tooThe game has to be more than just "fun" to keep your tolerance at bay and that is essentially what "good" is
>>743735907everything on the chart is man made you fucking donkey. did you have trouble recognizing patterns at school? is that why you're a fucking retard now? bowel movements would be bottom center you fucking imbecile fuck
>>743734012>Fellating bullet hell crap and platformer crapPCfags being obnoxious as usual nothing new to see here
>>743735963>bowel movements would be bottom center you fucking imbecile fuckkek, I rest my case
>>743736063oh yeah because shit is high art to a glue sniffer like you. cry more bitch
>>743734012The Dark Knight should be higher. That film in a bonerfide classic
>>743735998God i wish pcfags played that stuff but they greatly prefer grim destitution simulators and skinner boxes.
>>743736154have fun comparing literal shit and wd-40 to arcade cabinets. im sure your grand thesis of the universe will all come together real soon. not a schizo btw
>>743736187>superhero film>anything but the sloppiest of the slopI wanna push my thumbs into your eyes
>>743736223"hi. I'm mr retard. i can't tell the difference between a turd and Sympathy of the Night. i'm going to eat a lightbulb because its all the same to me" that's how you fucking sound you idiot
>>743736329like I said, schizo and ESL is a dangerous combination. watch out, anons.
>>743736391everyone is laughing at you
>>743734012Nigga slipping in shitsong like we wouldn't notice. Your shill campaign failed. It's been over half a year. Let it go.
>>743736439Shut up, retard. Its a well known fact that it was one of the best, if not THE best games released last year, and anyone who disagrees can safely assumed to be a retarded shitter who needs to be slowly dipped in acid.
>>743734012>rslashelectricunderground.png
Oniigger samefag thread
>>743736275would be a valid point if you didn't jerk off to tranime
>>743736748what's your point?
>>743734012sonic adventure 2 is fun and a work of art i agree
>>743736975that you need to go back
>>743734012Why is Remake bottom right?
>>743737205lol, I get that you don't like reddit but Mark's sub (like his YouTube) is a on different level. I've had really great discussions about game design there.
>>743736580>can safely assumed to be a retarded shitter who needs to be slowly dipped in acidPersonally I would prefer if they were genetically altered and grafted with artificial organs for extreme longevity then the resulting bulbous mass of flesh was stuffed in small metal coffins that supported basic life functions while injecting them with chemicals that induce a state of extreme suffering and fear for all eternity.
>>743737378if this thread is anything to go by I don't believe you
Arcades/Street FIghter should be in product.
>>743736275https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accolades_received_by_The_Dark_Knight
>>743737506I don't give a shit about normalfag achievements. If I can not derive personal pleasure from something, it is entirely worthless and needs to be scrubbed from the public consciousness. You may not like it now, but I'm sure a world better aligned with my values would be a much better place to live than this one.
>>743737505Educate yourselfhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYEJQ6Hj600&t
>>743737560Is that so, anime boy?
>>743737560So is that why those comments got deleted
>>743737637It is so. And by the way, jerking off to moe does not make feminine. Far from it. It actually speaks to the extremely masculine urge to protect and cherish something small and innocent. Additionally, it was literally the pillar to which 4chan was founded on. You are clearly a hostile invader, intent on ruining the fun of those who belong here, and need to share the same fate as the Silksong haters.
>>743737740okay fine, but you gotta admit Ledger's Joker was god-tier
>>743737569wtf is this trash kek
>>743737727Be quiet. Everyone knows that guy was an idiot and didn't deserve the attention. You even referencing it is rewarding him for his stupidity. In fact, I'd go so far as to say its a cognitohazard, and just thinking about it is enough to make worse as a person. Stop. I did the right thing, and you know it.
>>743737852You don't deserve the attention that I am giving you, but here we are. Dark Knight is kino, by the way.
>>743737785I don't gotta admit shit. The only thing I'll "admit" is that seeing live-action scripted media is enough to fill me with intense rage and the urge to punch a wall. Anyone intelligent knows its all garbage and not even remotely worth thinking about. The fact you're making me think about it now should be considered an act of terrorism, and you should go away for a LONG time.
>>743737727>>743737852????????????????????????????????????
>>743737905>TV IS SHIT>Anyway let me not post MANime and instead post the most trans-coded one imaginable
>>743734012what the fuck am i looking at
>>743736275>>743737560>>743737740>>743737852>>743737905You rule.
>>743734012Why is fun the opposite of good? Fundamentally flawed image.
>>743737953I like good manga. Baki is good. Onimai is good. This is the only criteria for enjoyment. Being good. If you have some other vector where you can't enjoy a masterpiece like Onimai because its "girly", you have a single-digit IQ and can safely be ignored.
>>743738014>t. Vampire Survivors fan
>>743738213vampire survivors is not that fun, it gets old quick
>>743737982You're looking at a 2D alignment chart (or "political-compass-style" meme) that maps the creator's opinions about various games, movies, companies, and random objects along two subjective axes:Horizontal axis: FUN GOODLeft = enjoyable, entertaining, or "fun-first."Right = high-quality, well-crafted, or "objectively good."Vertical axis: PRODUCT ARTTop = viewed more as artistic expression.Bottom = viewed more as commercial products or utilitarian objects.The idea is that something can be:very fun without being "great art,"artistically impressive without being especially fun,both,or neither.
>>743738243True but it is also the furthest thing from "good" so the placement fits
>>743738343ok? bayonetta is both fun and good, the chart makes no sense
>>743738374Bayonetta is casual trash so it would be bottom left
>>743738012Don't get sarcastic with me, retard. I have not said a single lie.
>>743738456I mean the chart makes no sense to begin with so any argument about its placement is meaningless
>>743738519I wasn't being sarcastic!
>>743738586You clearly were, and I don't appreciate it. If we ever met irl, I would make you regret fucking with me.
>>743738562It's actually so depressing that reddit has a higher IQ than 4chan these days...
>>743738213I don't care about that game, I'm saying fundamentally the image is flawed because fun is not the opposite of good.
>>743738632maybe you should go back there
>>743738615Dude I wasn't! I was a neutral observer and I liked your attitude!
>>743738648No. I'm not going to let 4chan succumb to brainrot "let people have fun" takes. I'm staying here. And I'm going to fight.
>>743738673I know your game. Its obvious what you're doing. I am the victim of a large scale harassment campaign, and my deranged stalkers have already descended upon the thread to abuse me. There are no accidents or coincidences anymore. And you are clearly trying to use reverse psychology, pretending to be a supporter just so you can later swoop in and shout "SAMEFAG"! I'm done playing these little games. Fuck right off, I won't take this anymore.
>>743734012>SotN that low on the art scale>shillsong that high on the art scale
>>743738785Whatever, man. Never meet your heroes, I guess.
>>743738843I'm not your hero, fag. You are my enemy, and I will fight you with the fury of a thousand fighters.
>>743738840I explain my reasoning here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvr3WJTWbMQ
>>743734105corporate product is not art>>743734127artlet
>>743738714>anon makes up argument in his head to get mad at
>>743738967your reasoning is shit, morkkys
>>743739051Did you even watch the video. What did he say that was wrong? lol
>>743738785You're gonna keep takin' it, and you're gonna keep sayin' it.
>>743739156no I asked AI to make a summary and it said that mork is a massive faggot
>>743734012This image gets even funnier when you read the thread and realize that OP is trying to use this chart as a value judgement and not just a catalogue, making it even more schizo and useless than it already is.
>>743739156There's no reasoning with these people. Mark give clear, bulletproof evidence as to why fighting games are not products (they're art) and people lose their fucking minds.
>>743739163No I fucking won't. You've already taken the shmup threads away from me. That alone is worthy of vengeance-fueled crusade. I won't stop until you’ve all felt ten times the torment you’ve put me through.
>>743739309That's right, keep going. Keep sayin' it.
>>743739245why don't you suck my fucking cock you fucking little snotbrain retard
>>743739626Meant for >>743739309
>>743739641no fuck off it was meant for who I said it was meant for
>>743739783It's a stealth Mork thread so it's fundamentally worthless
>>743739626>>743735403Can someone give me a QRD on the gook schizo lore? Who is this guy and why is he so oddly defensive about this stupid chart from this random eceleb subreddit?
>>743739913It's all explained here:https://www.patreon.com/electricunderground
>>743740059>people actually give money to this literal wholol thats depressing
>>743737405But why
>>743740059We like to tease Mark, but this guy really does offer a ton of content for just a few dollars. Definitely one of the best Patreons around.
>>743741039Yep. I've learned a ton about game design and philosophy since joining. And his podcasts with Bog are always hilarious
>>743741194Care to share a link? I'd love to subscribe
>>743741243Sure thing!https://www.patreon.com/electricunderground
You faggots are so fucking insecure. It's pathetic, fucking losers. I wish you were all bullied.
https://pastebin.com/TrfGkWam
>>743734012No, WD40 actually kinda sucks.
Can someone explain the difference between deriving enjoyment from pretending to be someone else and being transexual
>makeshift onitranny shmuptroon thread
>>743734012>fun and good are opposites>products can't have artistic valueis this what those schizophrenic failed normalfags on /v/ who seethe at random posts actually believe? Makes perfect sense. Legit mental illness.
>>743734012>Sega Spider Man arcade gameOdd pick, but a very good one
The only art in this entire chart is the Mona Lisa. Video games (and movies) are entertainment products.
>>743744357Educate yourselfhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYEJQ6Hj600&t
>literally who eceleb samefaggingbuy an ad
>>743734012holy speud batman
>>743738968>corporate product is not artIncorrect. It's just not art you like.
>>743734012>SF3 (actually the 38th SF release in under 10 years) is art>minecraft, the building and survival game made by a single guy in a basement, is not
>>743737569Mork's discussion of fighting games will always make me feel extremely insecure about my performance in shmups, because I know that nigga doesn't know shit about fighting games. I need to learn a CAVE 2-ALL.
>>743737569hes right. you literally placed it the exact opposite of where it should be. what's next the strength tester machine at the carnival is art? how about the shooting gallery? lmao
I found this thread to be a great example of Comedic Density.
Are you guys excited for Mork's Star Fox review?
>>743748313No he should be reviewing hogslop instead
>>743735292You're not supposed to drink it.
Main audience seething at mark are troons btwhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xIcPNdsX_Mhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4z5AsSD5F0Nigga is still tweakin out like 3 years later lmao
Why does every shmupfag like third strike? It's always the first example they bring up in conversation.
>>743734314Go back to being a performative male and writing sloppa, Waldun you fuckwit.
>>743750392https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX0eaRHJcak
You can tell kids are on their summer break lol shit for brains zoomers
>>743750392>Why does every shmupfag like third strikeI dont
I've reached a point in my life where if you say that 3S is the best fighting game ever made, I do not care how good you are at the game, I do not care how knowledgeable about the genre you are, I do not care what other games you play, I think your opinions suck and I won't listen to you.>parrying is good because... it just is, ok? >I love that half the roster is unusable! I love that nothing is reliable! >I've been playing this game for seven months, I'm going to lecture you about arcade design The bud light dads of vidya
>>743734087spbp
>>743750548lol of course
>>743749997Right but when you spray it don’t you breathe a bit in incidentally?
>>743734012>>743734087>This game is fun, but it's not good.>This game is good, but it's not fun. I can't comprehend this. The only thing that comes to mind are guilty pleasures, so-bad-it's-good, or Kusoge, games for the former, and those "Sony movie games" where it's more story than game, for the latter.
>>743734012Videogames are not art.
>>743756719Art is gay.
>>743756921Silksong is kino. One of the best metroidvanias behind Super Metroid and Rain World
>Mork thread>onimai schizo is here immediately
