>>743825608
>Hey here are all these fun tools to kill stuff with
>don't use them or everyone will slap you upside the head and treat you like a monster, you'll also get the bad ending and gameplay disadvantages

>>743825608
non-lethal was both less fun and more repetitive. bad combo

>>743825608
It's a meme

"Choices should matter" niggas when the choices matter

>>743825696
>killing gets you more things to kill, a way cooler final level and a more badass (but less innocent) Emily
I don't see the issue

>>743825608
The chaos system is the game wanting to have it's cake and eat it too. You can have fun but only if you're a bad guy. In reality, the game is better on high chaos because the difficulty goes up and the ending is arguably more interesting but it's bad faith because most people aren't going to try to be overtly evil in games.

I think Deathloop did it best where chaos is completely divorced from morality, and instead it's purely played as a gameplay mechanic for making the game harder or easier if you want to be silent.

>>743825910
I think the chaos system was trying to be that too in the first game, just not as well. It's why it's not called a karma system or whatever. The idea is killing a ton of town guards makes more corpses for the rats and fewer people to police the imploding city. There're some non-murder actions that increase chaos, like poisoning the bottle gang's stills, and I think there's even some ways to lower chaos. But the system does kinda fall apart in many missions.

>corvo, you killed so many poeple so i'm gonna shoot a flare to let everyone know you're here
thanks samuel you were a good friend

>>743825883
choices shouldn't be
>kill a guy in a video game
>NOOOOOOOO DON'T DO THAT YOUR EVIL NOOOOOOOOOO

>non lethally injuring possibly permanently disabling a guy in a video game
>SEE THATS THE GOOD CHOICE

>>743825608
low emotional IQ people cannot handle being told to not do something they want to do

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>>743826441
Too slow, old man.

>>743826498
It's the less chaotic choice

because unlike Thief its daddy, you don't have a blackjack to club niggers in the head with

>>743825608
in the back of my head I'm still reminded about how kino this video is

https://youtu.be/zf3PAK9tsmc?si=e5rf1UUvreql5rtv&t=33

the irony is "non lethal" ended up being massively worse than lethal. they had to retcon lady boyle.

>>743825608
Literally because the game calls you a naughty boy in the 30-second-long static image cutscene at the end if you go high chaos, that's it. That's the only reason. Giving you more enemies to cut down with all your cool voodoo powers is a plus.

>>743827297
>they had to retcon lady boyle
How?

>>743827297
Non-lethal Lady Boyle would get someone cancelled if it was in a game nowadays, no matter how much she deserved it.

>>743827297
>>743827865
foids and pussywhipped men are insanely hypocrital when it comes to allowing murder and torture but rape is the big no no

>>743827918
Hey we have no proof that guy intended to rape her. He was a proper gentleman.

>>743825608
Because theyre trash at the game

>>743825608
Gamers hate having to take responsibility for their actions.

>>743825608
Because many people enjoy ludo-narrative dissonance out of laziness. They want to be able to kill 500 people unnecessarily, then choose "pet the dog" instead of "kill the dog" in a cutscene to get the good ending. For Dishonored specifically, the existence of achievements means that most people never experienced a normal low chaos playthrough but forced themselves to ghost + clean hands. I just did a run where I killed just one guy at Coldridge, but then I killed 23 people in the first real mission, then around 15 to 20 each mission after and still had low chaos. People just do not play the game, and because the chaos system is never really explained in depth, they just schizo-rant at things that do not exist, pretending that you can't do anything without getting high chaos when it's completely false.

The Chaos system is very well done, its only flaw is that it's not explained in details. Subhumans complain because they can't brutally kill everyone in the level and be told they're a good boy who dindu nuffin.

Last time I was playing I wanted the "0 kills achievement". Finished a level with 0 kills but the game told me
>Uhm... Dood, actually you commited murder... You didn't but I'm gonna ruin your whole walkthough because uhhh like I'm a selfish little bitch

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>mom I posted the bait thread again

>>743826441
>>743826767
the old "betray a psycho killer to his face", that's a neat trick

>>743828381
>Mon I replied to bait again but im not like le others, I'm being le ironic

>>743827297
The retconning has to do with leftists becoming much more mentally ill throughout the 2010s, not the non-lethal being a problem.

>>743827812
In the game, you give her to a noble who's obsessed with her (an actually really good fate compared to everyone else who is a target), and the Outsider confirms that her hair will become grey in captivity. Arkane being cucks who completely submitted to Anita and her friends, decided to retcon by writing in a book released 4 years after the game "yeah akshually she's a very smart very strong girlboss because women are heckin valid and don't need no men so she easily manipulates the guy and in just a few years he dies and she inherits everything and is so smart and beautiful and lives so well tee hee girl power!"

>>743828168
This. The guy is just obsessed. The insanity to pretend that people would rather get stabbed to death than be kidnapped by a rich noblewoman who's desperate to ride your cock. "Penis in vagina is worse than getting tortured by fire then slowly dying of plague with blood coming out of your eyes and your mind slowly breaking into insanity while you walk around in piss and shit" is a mental illness.

>>743828608
Damn, that is beyond fucking gay

>>743828608
When did this weird phenomenon of women simultaneously thinking rape is worse than torture or murder but also fantasizing about it in their steamy smut books begin, anyway?

>>743828294
>the existence of achievements means that most people never experienced a normal low chaos playthrough but forced themselves to ghost + clean hands
Yeah this is the main thing imo. People think they can't kill anyone if they wanna do a low chaos run, or they know they can kill some but force themselves not to to do a clean hands run. If you just try to do a non-lethal run but roll with the punches when you get caught or can't see a way out of a situation other than killing it's a lot more fun.

>>743825608
>>743825696
>knows he can’t make a thread openly crying
>has to make thread asking why people (he) is crying about it
>very first post is him using the same cope he uses in every thread
Pussy, this fucking pussy is sperging out because a character in a video game said he was bad. Fucking faggot.

>>743828608
Damn that's really lame. With some tweaking Dishonored 2 could have been a really cool game but alas

>>743829283
I (OP) am actually fine with it for the most part, I just wanted to start some dishonored discussion because I'm replaying it :D

>>743825696
Bro the game is literally giving you more dudes to kill using all the fun tools, why are you complaining?
Just admit that it just hurt your feelings to get called a naughty boy during the gay little placeholder static image ending cutscene

>>743829361
I like a lot about D2, I just wish they let you skip the pointless Delilah stuff. And the thing with putting women as guards and in command as soldiers everywhere is incredibly cringe, but at least you get to destroy them to compensate.

>>743829440
>get called a naughty boy
That's not even a thing, some characters realistically react like this to you, but the Outsider just tells you in the end "you were a very brutal man, but History will not remember that, it will remember that this was a shitty era and compared to the plague and rampant death everywhere, your crimes seemed insignificant. Emily will not be a great ruler, but what can you expect in a world that brutalized her so much from such an early age?".

You're either the one to revert the downward path of Dunwall and as such you're praised, or you're one of the countless who morally rotted in this chaos, and no one will pay attention to you in particular as all of that period was horrible.

>>743826498
Killing mission targets contributes close to nothing to Chaos. The Outsider sees the eventual outcomes; the alternatives to killing are barbaric in themselves, with the exceptions of Daud and the Lord Regent.
>Helping Granny Rags is always worse
>Killing non-combatants is worse than combatants
>Not saving people you have a choice to save is worse
>That includes kills by traps or devices even if you didn't interact with them
>You are responsible for rats killing anyone, so High Chaos can snow-ball
>Corpses being discovered or eaten by rats

>>743829720
Yeah recycling Delilah as a villain was lame, she worked better with Daud

>>743825696
>everyone
only samuel, emily and callista. no one else really gives a shit

>>743829128
It's funnt because Game of Throne's prequel serious House of the Dragon got taken over by feminist writers and there's like rape/rape attempt scenes in every episode now

>>743829819
>Killing mission targets contributes close to nothing to Chaos.
Killing targets give no chaos, non-lethal removes chaos. Your chaos score is permanent, so if you overshoot drastically it can take a few missions to get back to low chaos, and you can do the reverse where you contain yourself for a while then can massacre an entire level and still be low chaos.

>>743829879
Indeed, but it seems obvious that they picked her because they wanted a strong wahman as a villain. And they utterly failed in their writing of her as we never get any conclusive evidence on whether her grudges are based on anything real or if she's lying her ass off, and even if those grudges were true they wouldn't justify 1% of her crimes.

>>743830092
If they wanted a female villain they could have just made a new one up. The Boyle bitches have a bad reputation, use one of them or something.

>>743830242
Sure, but Delilah does feel like a part of their apology to Anita. They went hard with "righting the wrongs done to wahman in the first game", and Delilah in that DLC was just some psycho-bitch evil woman a gruff guy had to take down, and if you don't kill her, she gets trapped in her painting, screaming in typical foid fear and hatred and projection that you're evil for doing that.

They kept her crimes, but tried to somewhat justify it with "wahman can't be bad by nature, it's evil society making them this way". You could say I'm over analyzing, but they're the ones who forced all of this into a political discussion in the first place, loudly and publicly.

>noooooo muh bad endinggggggg
So do a low chaos playthrough
High chaos is for gameplaychads who don't care about gay ass stories in their vidya

>>743830569
Confronting Hiram Burrows on high chaos is peak, the sheer terror in his voice knowing that all of his security couldn't prevent you from reaching him.

>>743828294

I don't even really get why people get upset about it. High chaos basically rewards you by giving you more dudes to kill and has more interesting combat encounters.
You get a more cynical ending and more characters are depressed but that's just the world responding to the fact you've killed a shitton of the police force and they're forced to recruit even bigger shitheads.

Like it's just a character going "man I wish you didn't you kill all those people, like did you really have to massacre the entire section?" and a more cynical ending (Corvo and Emily at least get to be unstoppable tyrants for a while). It's not that big of a deal.

>>743830684
Exposing him is also fun, even if it is extremely convenient that he recorded the perfect confession. The confrontation with Havlock is the real high chaos standout to me.

>>743829879
>Yeah recycling Delilah as a villain was lame
That and killing the Outsider of all characters in some standalone expansion with a literal who OC donut steel.
It's like they wanted to sabotage any future for the series

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>>743831181
>Corvo and Emily at least get to be unstoppable tyrants for a while
For all their lives if they wish, as Emily is shown to be very old looking at your tomb in the high chaos ending as well.

>I don't even really get why people get upset about it.
Again, they feel judged, they're not used to ludo-narrative dissonance being addressed and they panic in self-justification. When I see how often people are incapable of understanding the context of a line or idea said by a character and instead take every character who's obviously traumatized or lying or just raised in a specific context and see that as an objective statement they have to accept or refuse to not be a "conspiracy theorist", I just feel most people do not deserve to be called humans.

>even if it is extremely convenient that he recorded the perfect confession.
It makes some sense, he was a sort of perfectionist and genuinely believed his plan would work well, he never thought things would go to shit, and he feels extremely guilty about the shit he's done but he's gone way too far now to back down. The confession is a way to relieve his guilt, and the Outsider confirms this.

>>743831523
And replacing the Outsider's VA because of picrel was incredibly cringe. The effect used on his voice in 2 when he had such a perfect natural aura in 1 too.

>>743831523
Everything they did with the outsider sucked hard
>lets give this eldrich entity a tragic backstory!

>>743829128
dawn of human history

>>743831821
the fact the outsider is just created through basic bitch human sacrifice is what really ruins it

>>743825608
>>743829440
>but the game gives you a generous amount of leeway so you can do a lot of killing without incurring high chaos
>but the consequences are relatively mild; it's just one or two characters that hate you
Sure, it's mostly psychological but games revolve around player psychology. If you tell a player something is bad, they'll try to avoid doing it. Then they'll become frustrated that all the best upgrades are for the thing they're trying not to do.

Getting ghost in this game was such a hassle

>>743832708
Unless you're doing clean hands at the same time, and did enough quests to get the Granny Rags/Slackjaw encounter, it's not. NPCs basically can't look up at all even on Very Hard, and Bend Time and Possession exist.

>>743826767
Damn the game let you do that? Based

>>743833021
>NPCs basically can't look up at all even on Very Hard
Not just that, they have zero vertical vision at all, you wouldn't even need to raise your head to see Corvo a lot of the time and they're just blind to him. On the other hand hiding in shadows, foliage, looking at someone through a small crack, all get you spotted instantly and the guards psychically tell all the other guards where you are. Having played Thief not that long ago, it's funny how the stealth in that game is more sophisticated than the stealth in this one.

>>743825608
Gamers don’t like being told they’re the bad guy, even when their actions completely justify that judgement. They want to be jerked off and hailed as a hero, even when spending the entire game acting like a sociopath.

>>743826772
Honestly, it sort of makes sense from a narrative perspective. But how corvo killing 4 more guards in a mission and subsequently there’s more infected and rats between missions felt a bit more overly deterministic than it otherwise should. As daud you can be a murder hobo with no consequences, and Dauds powers are better anyway, making the game more interesting.

>>743833302
Yeah, in Very Hard it's insane how you're spotted from so goddamn far when on the same level, but any verticality and they're blind.

feel like replaying Dishonored 2
I never actually did a Emily run, is she fun? I found Corvo is just too busted with bend time once you get it setup

>>743833382
Just did a low chaos run and I've killed people on almost every level, even up to like 7, and still got low chaos.

>>743833440
Her blink alternative is super fun, and she also has other cool powers like tethering multiple people together and having what effects one person effect the whole tethered group.

>>743833382
Disingenuous or stupidity. You have to kill dozens consistently, and yeah if you kill hundreds of people over the course of the game, the city will go to shit, that's not surprising.

>>743833440
She is, and she's the intended character anyway. But after one run, you can NG+ with all powers on either characters.

>>743833472
Again, I killed 23 on the first mission, did Granny Rags side quest of poisoning the still, but saved the various people around who needed it and non-lethalled Campbell, low chaos. The low chaos rating is vastly more generous than people pretend.

>>743833472
Damn.. when I killed 3 people there was like 2 zombie guys on the street and way more rats.. still low chaos btw, but it’s definitely a ratio between them and not one or the other until you cross a certain threshold, thats what I saw at least.

>>743833472

I think it's been estimated you'd have to kill over 20% of the enemies in a level to be considered a high chaos. I think non-lethally taking out targets and doing side quests where you help people out might reduce it but I'm not sure.

>>743833302
Going off of things Raph and Harvey said in their let’s play commentary of the game, my guess was that the lean was forgiving because they thought the first person perspective made it difficult to scout areas out, and they had to scrap the Thief style shadow system they had planned because it clashed with the art style, so they probably overcompensated and gave you a free corner peak because shadows only give you a slight stealth at best.

>>743833635
Nope. Read >>743833652
You binary fags can suck it

>>743829983
>Women writers get involved
>Suddenly there are way more cases of ambiguous consent, rapey undertones, rape attempts, or just outright rape
It's not an "every time" thing but it's funny how often it happens

>>743833753
it's enough

>>743833692
Corner peek can be ridiculous but it's a far milder offense compared to the nonexistent vertical vision

>>743833664
Correct. Non-lethal eliminations reduce chaos, and so does doing things like saving civilians being harassed by guards. Poisoning Slackjaw’s elixir still also increases chaos.

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Some numbers for the discussion

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The chaos limits are
>low: below 168
>medium: 168-389
>high: 390 or above

>>743833869
I think that the fact guards can’t look up is weird, because they CAN look up if you’re in combat, since they’ll throw rocks at you if you’re on a vantage point.

>>743833753
DH2 had 2/3 of its writers be female as opposed to DH1’s 1/3, and if anything, Dishonored 2 toned down every edgy part in the game except for the violence and torture. They even retconned Lady Boyle’s non-lethal fate so she actually escapes the sex dungeon and kills her stalker (which completely undermines the fact that non-lethal eliminations are supposed to be fates worse than death).

>>743834371
They also result in the person being dishonored, like corvo was, which also doesn't really work with the lady boyle retcon

>>743834169
>>743834243
Yea it is pretty generous, but if you’re a new player and you don’t do stealth easily or you dont savescum I can see how it would get tricky. Also ALARMS contributing to chaos is fucking diabolical, imagine you’re a shitter failing stealth and because of that zombies come out the fucking walls and there’s walls of rats everywhere. Nightmarish

>>743834807
Now that you mention it, I don’t remember base game being so generous so maybe it was patched later, because in a replay I went ‘fuck it’ and went around being a bit more murdery and it didn’t affect too much from my recollection, and the reductions to chaos here work fine, thankfully;>>743834243
Theres no way to track it in game without rats and zombies or until it directly tells you and by that point its too late

>>743834371
>They even retconned Lady Boyle’s non-lethal fate
That's not D2, that's the book The Corroded Man.

>>743835110
You could probably do it with cheatengine if you really wanted to

>>743834807
I think alarms contributing to Chaos makes perfect sense from both a story and gameplay perspective. From a gameplay perspective, it’s a subtle nudge to play the game stealthily, and from a story perspective, it doesn’t inspire a lot of confidence in the Regent’s ability to maintain control if a scary masked intruder is spotted breaking into high profile places and fucking shit up.

My only niggle with the Chaos system is that the Low Chaos outcome is maybe a bit too much of a happy ending, which reinforces the misconception of the endings being “good” and “bad” endings.

>>743825608
Low-IQ midwits can't handle the protagonist being an objectively bloodthirsty maniac if he, you know, massacres entire platoons of guards.

>>743833869
>>743834371
It's really obvious in the knife of dunwall. Early on there's an NPC you can optionally talk to in a boat. He's like a mile away, but he stares straight at you. Meanwhile the guards right underneath you will never notice Corvo.

>>743835372
I like how Corvo in the first and second is canonically high chaos. The DLC in 1 remarks how a psycho killer stalks the streets and in 2 Corvo did go on a rampage.

>>743834371
to be fair, who the fuck expects someone to come teleporting in from above?

>>743835736
What about someone jumping on you from the walkway above? Or just shooting you from the high ground?

>>743835110
>by that point its too late
You’re not hardlocked into a Low or High Chaos end until you reach Kingsparrow. You can change your Chaos rating as late as the Hound Pits return (this is the only way to keep Callista alive in the High Chaos route). It leads to a funny situation where Emily can do a complete 180 in personality between the celebration party and the end of the game.

>>743835794
All the areas your patrol are heavily guarded. You'd never be on the lookout for someone like that because they'd normally be spotted by someone on a better vantage point. Like that one guard on the Dr's balcony

>>743835736
The Whalers exist, as do other people with supernatural powers. Places getting infiltrated by supernatural assassins isn’t uncommon in the Dishonored universe.

>>743825608
No one really hates it except that one shitposting retard crying about being "punished."

>>743836092
the whalers themselves are acknowledged as a strange and uncommon sight, anon

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People like to do the right thing. Thats why everyone lets this guy in

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>>743831670
MORE LIKE TROMBLEY?!

>>743834371

Are guards in DH2 better about this? I remember there being a setting to enhance their vertical sight but it's probably just so you can't literally hover above them without them noticing.

>>743836314
I think in Dishonored’s case, it’s very obvious that killing guards who are just doing their job is the “wrong” thing. People just complain in games whenever their killing isn’t completely morally absolved. People got butthurt over Spec Ops:The Line for similar reasons, although they’re fine when Nier and Metal Gear does it, so maybe there’s also an element of “it’s okay when Japan does it” in there.

>>743836685
Guards in Dishonored 2 have better AI in general, and it’s a harder game, but not by a huge amount. The most noticeable change is that they nerfed the lean.

>>743836812
Spec Ops makes it so killing is a requirement to continue. Metal gear, it's entirely optional to kill anyone in it really. Though non-lethaling boss' still leads into them dying.

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>Why doesn't bloodthirsty psychopathy amidst a precarious, famished society in turmoil reward me LE GOOD ending REEEEEEEEEEEEE I want le noscope guards working pennies and rations with a poison now and choke slam them into my knife and get shiny bing bing wahoo with congratulations REEEEEEE

>>743836812
I complain over spec ops because the game literally doesn't give you an option other than to kill everyone to progress, and then berates you for it. Well I guess it does give you one option, which I took after the white phosphorous scene, which is to stop playing and uninstall.

i prefer high chaos emily over low chaos
my little empress can't be so cute

>>743825696
>muh bad ending
>muh story
nigga, who gives a shit you whiny faggot

>>743837040
A fair number of overseers and guards are characterized as cartoonishly evil psychos to be fair, I can't see society doing anything but improving from them being killed

>>743836812
>killing guards who are just doing their job is the “wrong” thing
The guards are all pretty terrible and corrupt BUT they're the only thing maintaining a semblance of order in your terrible plague infested city.
Not to mention a major subplot in the game is dealing with the crime-lord of the city who has taken advantage of the situation to expand his influence.
The whole setting is a crapsack world and the endings are a choice between bad and worse.

>"You smell like blood. How many people did you kill?"
>"When I become Empress, I'm going to fill to ships full of people and crash them into each other."
>“The others are all dead, aren’t they? That’s ok, because I was going to have them killed anyway”

>>743837732
In my heart and mind, High Chaos Emily is canon. In both the first and second game, she becomes a way more interesting character if she’s a psycho. And a lot hotter too.

>>743837732
The perfect daughter

>>743825608
non-lethal sucked ass in the game

>>743837882
believe me, i know
>>743837889
better
i think high chaos emily would be more suited to reign over the absolute mess that is the empire
the entire fiasco and deal with the nobles is more the royal line isn't being hard enough on those fucking lunatics

>>743838308
I've always wondered, what IS "the empire" exactly? Like from what I've gathered the emperor/empress only seems to rule over gristol, the island that the game takes place on. There's other islands, but it seems they're independent of the empire since the empress had to send corvo around begging for their help.

>>743838446
It’s basically the Commonwealth. Gristol is the UK, and the other Isles are colonies they control, but don’t have a perfect foothold in.

>>743837148
this is my only issue, desu

literally using the heart and having any sense of righteousness whatsoever will make you exterminate 90% of all NPCs, because they are all pieces of shit in the best case and outright psychos in the worst. It also takes away from the logic of the chaos system desu, taking out murderous pieces of shit from positions of authority in society should improve it, not damage it.

>>743838446
basically >>743838575
Gristol is London. Serkonos is Spain, Tyvia is Russia and supposedly famous for homo stories between men and women, and Morley is just Ireland or Scotland

I went 100% ghost because I wanted another Thief game and it was ok I guess.

>>743838962
Play Black Parade if you haven't yet

>>743836229
Daud and his gang are widely known, although their powers might not be.

>>743840508
A common skeptic would easily dismiss it as legends and hearsay.

>>743840613
The higherups at the very least definitely know about it, because there's some book or note mentioning that the reason shit like the light walls were created was to stop threats beyond just the physical. I think it might mention that the empress's assassination made it happen, because a bunch of teleporting hitmen were able to get to her. As for how high up you gotta be to be in the know about that, who knows. I imagine at least the officers know what the light walls are for.

>>743833302
>>743833692
There's a simple answer to that: it just wouldn't be fun.
Giving NPCs full awareness while the player has limited first-person awareness is just going to lead to situations where you get spotted 97% of the time without you even realizing it. That's why every single game makes stealth concessions, ranging from free-flowing, but limited sense cones (which I think is more fun), to more strict perfect vision/fixed routes routine (which I think fucking sucks and turns into a memory game)

And yes, Thief also had these concessions, you're just willing to overlook them, the amount of leeway you get for being in a slightly shadowed area is ridiculous.

>>743840809
To the abbey, sure. The laymen, not so much

>>743825608
I played it a few weeks ago and didn't mind Chaos because it is barely programmed into the game at all. Which I guess I'm glad for since it would be annoying if you were actually railroaded into pacifist stealth. I think people complain simply because the game gives you a ton of very fun tools to wreak havoc and then implicitly suggests it's wrong to use them. Blink and choking isn't that much fun comparatively.

>>743841189
Yeah thief's shadows gave you more cover than you'd expect, but I don't find that nearly as egregious as dishonored's vertical invisibility. The former only felt off to me when I had a guard right in my face, the latter felt off all the time though, especially given how keen their horizontal vision was.

kino
https://youtu.be/VGHmP1pt7MM&t=142
https://youtu.be/KaiaYFSl4aU&t=15

>>743841580
>Playback on other websites has been disabled by the video owner
motherfucker, where were you worried about this short ass under a thousand view no information video coming up?

>>743838962
I did the same, it was kinda fun at times. But stealth is very fucking easy.

>tfw can't find gigachad womanhater corvo run
did he take it down?
i laughed my fucking ass off so hard to that

>>743825608
Because it makes people they need to do a pacifist run and pacifist runs in dishonored are not nearly as fun