I think if you use fast forward in old JRPGs you're robbing yourself of the experienceAt first you're like "fuck i was just there i'll just fast forward" then it's "damn that's really far away i'm just gonna fast forward" then it's "fuck this shit another random battle i'm just gonna fast forward" then it's "i'll fast forward to grind faster" and you end up losing all of the atmosphere, especially the music, and any sort of tension in the game at all.
>>743830162YeahBut if you've played and beat it multiple times I think its ok
>rob self of experience>experience is negative>make a positive experience out of itWah wah
While that might be the case most old Jrpgs are extremely outdated in terms of mechanics and QoL features. The story and world building are the only things holding them up against modern offerings.
>>743830478>old game is outdated, and theres no qol WAAAHHHWAHWAHyou fucking fried your dopamine receptors and now have no attention span
>>743830478>QoL featuresretarded faggot post
I played FF9 PAL version and never really minded how slow it was.
>>743830626https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome
>>743831069We know you're filtered by games that have an ounce of friction, you dont have to brag about it
>>743830162get back here right now you little metal shit
>>743830162I tend not to but if I’m speeding up at all, that’s a sign the game has failed. For example I never speed up earthbound but when I played mother 1, it almost felt mandatory due to how slow the combat felt
>>743830626>>743830714Horse and donkey same price. Whats the incentive to buy and invest time in old clunky games when modern counterparts are typically a better experience all around. If you dont offer some sort of QoL features like speed increases how are your going to sell the product to first time players.
>>743831701yes let's cater to the first time casual players, nothing will go wrong there. maybe some yellow paint for some quality of life in the navigation, and some more checkpoints for the quality of life of punishment
>>743831701>invest >incentive >sell the productlol nice try nu-game marketer
>>743830626He's right tho. Older JRPGs are closer to pachinko machines than actual games. It may be true that "your tolerance to engage in a repetitive action and watch the numbers go up is lower than it used to be" but the same could be said of any addictive habit and it would be a positive thing. Retro JRPGs getting the short end of the stick when someone starts to have higher standards for what he invests his time in is not all that surprising.
>>743831943>He's right tho. Older JRPGs are closer to pachinko machines than actual gamesNo, he's not. You're just bad at the games. Anything after the NES with even reasonable amounts of critical acclaim holds up just fine, and even a lot of shit from the NES holds up well outside of obvious kusoge and weird exceptions like Mother 1's devteam unironically running out of development time and being unable to balance the back half of the game.
>>743831270I’ve beaten each mother and used to love the old jarpig routine, but I grew up and started to respect my time.
>>743831834>yes let's cater to the first time casual playersWhy do you think these games are rereleased on modern hardware?
>>743831943Sure, and not reading a book due to adhd making you watch videos is being free of repetitive action of going through words in it. No. The JRPG is like a book. You commit time to it and soak in the experience. There is no such thing.
i just don't like that period in between having a game i'm playing or a book i'm reading, it makes me feel like killing myself, so i play jrpgs at original speed to maximize the amount of time before i finish it. i've put something like 600 hours into octopath games this year
>>743832628The JRPG is like a book where you see the same sentences over and over until the boss fights where you have to think.Hungry hungry caterpillar has more depth than xenoblade 2
>>743831943>>743832137Dragon Quest III is goodHas gameplay and strategyClass changing coolUse a lot of spells
>>743832849that's why grinding and boss fights are different skills you can hone, though. repeat exposure allows you to perfect your strategy through iteration
>>743830162The old experience of static sprits waiting for calculation
>>743831943>"your tolerance to engage in a repetitive action and watch the numbers go up is lower than it used to be"Also known as having a fulltime job.
>>743832776Good and smart.
If the gameplay is just "press button to win" and there's no setup then speeding up battles is completely fair when it's just filler encounters, and if you somehow realize halfway through that you're going the wrong direction then speed up to get back to the right path. That's mostly it though, I really don't get how people play shit like Pokemon at 2x speed at all moments, at that point you're not even interaction with the game earnestly in any way.
>>743831943this nigga too retarded to play 4 dudes in a line games
>>743831069not a real thing, some fag who wasn't even there tried to defend retarded police decision making that nearly shot one of the hostages by making up bullshit
>>743833103People doing that have already completed the games. Also thishttps://youtu.be/GhmDmIt8AHY
>>743831701>you dont offer some sort of QoL features like speed increases how are your going to sell the product to first time playersremasters of old JRPGs coming with built-in speedup mechanics is basically a concession to this point. they understand this perfectly well.>>743832137>you're bad at these games where you press the buttons to watch the numbers go up and downYou don't actually believe that though. >>743832628JRPG combat is more like the videos in this analogy, and the "book" would be a genre where the gameplay is more dynamic and demands more from the player.
>>743833396oh shit, i was just joking but you actually do struggle with jrpgs don't you
>>743833396>You don't actually believe that though. I do, because you're clearly bad at them.
>>743830162Set the encounter rate lower.There is never going to be anything tense about grinding mobs for exp.
>>743830478>>743831069>>743831943truth nuke, stockholm syndromed retards on suicide watch, grinding random battles or endlessly respawning enemies is a waste of time
>>743833626Random Encounters are specifically designed to slowly drain you of resources in games where resources are limited. It's the entire reason "spend this to leave the dungeon" items are fucking worthless in games with on-field encounters.
>>743833714whenever i encounter token items like this in games where they don't matter i am again struck by the thought that every game would be improved if it were just etrian odyssey
>>743832849That doesn't seem to be an older JRPG. Looks relatively recent. Therefore, it might partake in nu-rpg design where the battles have animations that do take forever to show off the graphics and have a cinematic experience. This is a matter of too much /QoL/. In an ideal gameplay-focused rpg, animations are over quickly and enemies have a role in chipping your hp for the boss, new enemies or areas help adding variety to the pacing. It's never -a dungeon where numbers go up as you beat a slime and that's it- as in the Pachinko-like gacha daily.
>>743830448>wah wahAre you pretending to cry or trying to write voila?
true, one thing I hate is how modern games and especially remasters/remakes essentially add cheats, whether it's right or wrong is another topic, and yeah it's also undeniable that with checkpoints from old games/possibility to soft-lock yourself and tedious grind and frustrating sections are a thing especially in older games so there's a valid reason to also have those things, on the other hand I would rather get through those obstacles on my own without external aid because it feels more satisfying, and for me personally games are not just a sprint to get to the ending as fast as possible so I can pick and consume another product asaptake persona 5 for instance, in royal you have>important skills already unlocked>can get DLC personae for free essentially trivializing combat even on hard>at some point you get a skill that allows you to insta-kill any NPC that has a level lower than yoursyou are not even playing the game anymore, you are just going through the motions and mashing buttons just to get to the next stage without stopping to soak it all in and appreciate the environments/art/visuals or reflecting about what just happened in the story etc, at first you might be reluctant to use it (and even convince yourself that you didn't beat the game if you used them) but ultimately if developers put it there then you, as a gamer, will inevitably use all those tools at your disposal to max efficiency>t. 360 hours in p5r, got the platinum
>>743833626Bravely Default was good in this regard. You could turn encounters completely off, or set the rate to max for grind time. And battles actually had some strategy to them, which you could spice up with interesting class synergies. Oh, and it comes with a fast-forward option for battles as well. Just goes to show that QoL and design integrity don't have to be at odds.
>random encounters contribute to risk/reward by being the sole source of risk in exploration so that if you're sticking your neck out for treasure, you might get fucked for it (doubly so in old ones where there's genuine mazes with dead ends) >this basic principle of game design utterly breaks fetuses' brains because they think you're supposed to hover around one spot and grind then say it's "outdated"
>>743830478I generally agree but it depends. For example FFI is pretty awful trying to go around lategame and find exactly where you need to go and being stopped by trash mobs every 5 seconds, it doesn't really take from "the experience" to be able to kill them faster when you aren't even trying to grind. Pokemon Stadium had a built in GBC emulator that you could use speedhacks in , 2 years after R/B came out. Was it wrong to use it then?
>>743830162>if you use fast forward you realize the game is so boring and braindead that it can be played at 20x speed
>>743835219this isn't an action game anon, the speed at which it runs is not relevant to how hard it is
>>743835084I generally agree with OP but
>>743830162I've replayed DQVIII last year and I never went below 2x speed at least, I also used save scumming in the casino and to grind metal king slimes in the end game Had a blast, I would say I don't care what purists think but actually I do I'm happy it makes you seethe
>>743830162>Skip the 2 minute animation for attacks>YOu'rE ROBBING YOuRSELf of The ExPerIEncE
>>743830162No. Fuck that noise. Fast forward is the only way to play.
>>743830162Bruh the experience consists of mashing x while watching the same animations over and over again.
>>743830478>story and world buildingDoesn't exist in NES rpgs and is barely present in SNES rpgs.
>>743836682
>>743830162Maybe the experience isn't very good
>>743832932Dragon Quest III is good. Dragon Quest III with fast forward is better. Do you really want to spent and extra 5 hours on grinding?
>>743833714And yet from the SNES on you can usually safe and restore all mp and status right in the fucking dungeon.
>>743836747Chrono doesn't have a deep story or extensive well fleshed out world. Incredibly simple game with a simple plot and simple characters.
>game where the encounters are not over-tuned filler where you press the button until you're back on the overworld but actually test your party and resource management as you progress through a series of challenge-gated checkpoints in the form of boss battlesEnough abstract discussion. What game actually accomplishes this the best?>>743834898I get the idea in principle, but in practice when the risk of sticking your neck out is "wow it would be really annoying if I were to have wasted all this time by dying and getting sent back to town and have to make back all the gold I lost in the process," it's not hard to see why the boring (safe) grind became the meta those types of games were known for. same goes for what >>743832964 was saying. optimizing a process to be less tedious can be a kind of "skill" in a way, but a system where you can "optimize" your way out of enjoying it, or ruin the balance too easily, is a system with room for improvement.
>>743830162>generic weeb fantasy setting>spam attack against scrimblo creatures you encounter every 5 seconds and heal between fights>your party members aren't even actual characters, just random mercs you hireAt least the pixel art looks nice and psychological test at the start was funny. Does this shit gets actually GOOD at any point?
>>743837054ogey
>>743837081>What game actually accomplishes this the best?Etrian Odyssey. All of them.
>>743837271eo2 kinda sucks
>>743830162The JRPG experience has always been braindead to the Western mind. Hence why our games get to the point. Japs are just programmed differently. Look at their work culture. They get a kick out of tedium. If you are White and like JRPGs you are either a poser or bottom quintile IQ. Sorry not sorry.
>>743831943>He's right tho. Older JRPGs are closer to pachinko machines than actual games.People really still saying this nonsense in big 26?
>>743837471jrpgs were invented by an american thobeit
The difficulty levels Square Enix is setting in the Dragon Quest games are what’s ruining the game, in my opinion.For example, in DQ3, the Hard difficulty works well enough throughout the game, but ultimately, it just shifts the recommended level for battles a little. Since you can speed up everything in the game, you can easily offset this difference with a little more grinding.So instead of beating the final boss at level 30, you might beat it at level 40, and that’s it… It doesn't add anything to the adventure.Then there's the extra content, where the higher difficulty starts to make things really annoying. But guess what… you can switch to the easiest difficulty, where you're literally immortal, and grind levels in the cave by killing blue dragons, and then go back to the higher difficulty and try to beat the bosses… But none of that would be necessary if you just played on normal difficulty and tried to overcome the challenges with good strategies, good use of skills, good use of classes, and good use of gear...
>>743832628>adhdWhy do you JRPGfags always use this argument for the undeniably boring gameplay of older JRPGs?
What kind of person gets so pissy about other people playing games wrong that he makes threads about it unprompted?
>>743837760>undeniably boring gameplayIt's only boring to you because you've got brain problems.
>>743837974I am not entertained by numbers going up. Especially when most JRPG don't require deep thinking. Use one party member to buff the others -> Use abilities according to the competencies of each party member -> gain XP -> Repeat.It's just not for me.
Gonna use this thread to ask a quick question: I just started Breath of Fire, and Romhacking has a hack that seems to unfuck the translation a bit and add a dash button (Hero's kinda slow) but also seems to be fanfiction. Is it fine or should I continue rawdogging the original?
>>743830162if you sit next to a running tv while playing old jrpgs you're robbing yourself of the experienceif you watch shit on a second monitor while playing old jrpgs you're robbing yourself of the experienceif you listen to the radio or any music outside of the game while playing old jrpgs you're robbing yourself of the experienceif you eat while playing old jrpgs you're robbing yourself of the experienceif you have a view of the outside world through a windows while you're playing old jrpgs you're robbing yourself of the experienceif you can't hear your parents arguing two rooms down while you're playing old jrpgs you're robbing yourself of the experienceif your mind wanders while playing old jrpgs you're robbing yourself of the experienceif you load a quick save or reset instead of watching the game over screen and pressing continue in old jrpgs you're robbing yourself of the experience
>Fast forward through random encounters which require no thought and are objectively a waste of time>Normal speed for significant and/or story relevant battlesThis is how I've been experiencing the 2D final fantasy games and it's a nice middle ground. If you can get by an encounter by simply spamming the attack button it is objectively a waste of time and worth skipping to make time for other games. We only have so much time on earth to play.
>>743838546>We only have so much time on earth to play.This. I seriously can't fathom how some JRPGs are out here taking 100, 120 hours to beat the main story, no one got this much time.
I can't play any JRPGs that have random encounters anymore. Shit was already solved in the SNES era and there are still countless RPGs from the PS1 era and beyond that still clung to that shit.
>>743838627>PERSONA 5Yuck
>>743837081There's a risk but on the other hand if the risk is removed there's no game, no adventure... it can be interesting at times. now, you said screw that and your risk assessment might tell you that the dungeon's too risky. There are ways around that. You backtrack the dungeon to save the progress, use a dungeon leave item. Now you go through the dungeon again. It's the 2nd run so you're strong for it. Should work for the FFHDs and pokemon or adjacent at least.>grindThere's never any grind. You move through a dungeon normally and kill what's there. Are you struggling? No more than 5 slimes / finding a strong enemy that gives you 200exp and instantly catch up.
>>743837790>>743830448I don't have anything against it, but still, there are different experiences to be had and I acknowledge that. The way some people play sum games could be its own fangame. Like the competitive-oriented nuzlockes. There could be a nuzlocke game that throws you to a random mon, you capture it, skips everything then auto-levels your mon efficiently and throws you into the Gym Leader. That's legitimately interesting.
>>743830162Thing is games like dragon quest and golden sun that are actually quite fast, but there are some games that are incredibly slow for no apparent motive like mother 3 with its delays between text boxes that serve no purpose but to delay the gameplay.
>>743839381try emerald rogue
>>743838691It's crazy how much better 4 niggaz in the row games automatically become if you just remove retarded random encounters that add nothing to the game but allow normalfags to bruteforce through the game via mindless grind.
>>743832137>calling others bad at games while crying about Mt. Itoi
>>743835312then why is fast forwarding such a problem?
>>743839821i suppose video games may be judged on qualities other than their difficulty
