Despite being on the Internet nearly all of my life, at least, for as long as I can remember, I never learned how to code. Sure, I can browse the Internet, watch videos, buy things online, but I don't really know how computers work inside. Maybe you remember that years ago, at least before the pandemic, people said that everyone should learn to code, that it was an important skill to have. You don't hear that much nowadays, but the idea remains. Coding is important. Being true to those words, I decided I want to learn how to code. I don't know how I should do it or what I should get to start coding. I could ask AI, but I'd like to also ask you, who are real people, as programs are made of code, as I understand, and programs are made to work for people and not the other way around, hopefully. Having said that, how do you start? What do you need? What are the most important programming languages out there? And any other things that everyone should know when they want to try their hand at something like this.
>>744520945Just use AI, coding is over
>>744520945Work through and watch enough of Handmade Hero until you feel comfortable starting on your own thing.(at least the first 30 videos)It's not really meant as a learning resource yet it's easily the best there is.
>>744521017you need to learn how to code , promting on a high level works for a demo or a rough mvp but you need to get technical if you want to get to production level
>>744521187That's not a bad recommendation. As a followup to this maybe it could be useful to look at Tsoding's videos, he also does stuff mostly in C (but not only) and it can impart some confidence to see him do seemingly hard sounding things in real time from scratch. It's really just about realizing what basic tools you generally have at your disposal, and having the confidence that you can just apply them to solve problems directly without even having to use someone else's stuff (not that you can't, but it helps to have that confidence that you can do it too, and can modify things if needed).
>>744521017You still need to know how to code because it lets you actually understand what specific part of written code does.
>>744521946Or... I can ask ai to explain it. Fable can make entire games and you can refine it further with no knowledge
>>744522020lmao couldn't out yourself as someone whose never actually used Fable if you tried
>>744522020AI makes up shit and hallucinates all the time, especially anything that was not directly fed to the model.
>>744522339I can't believe you time travelled from 2023 to tell me that
>>744520945I made some simple games using java, because it's the language i work with. Otherwhise i made some games using godot, never released them, just made them for myself. Use game engines anon, even scratch is able to do some fun things if you are autistic enough, simple to learn
It's actually super duper easy nowadays. I'm not big on coding myself, but I've made plenty of games in Godot using their visual scripting tool!It's super cool and super fun, I've learned a lot! All you do is drag and drop boxes of logic and before you know it, you have a game :)Seriously, Godot makes making games super easy, super fun, and super productive. Honestly, I think I can probably get a coding job now, so if that's what your after, then go for Godot!
>>744520945Before we start, you are interested in making your own game or being a gamedev? Personally I'd advise to do the former since the latter doesn't appear the most well regarded profession in term on job security and work-life balance.With that said, I'll assume you want to be an indie dev and not someone who works 8hrs a day + 4-6 hours of volunteered unpaid overtime + weekends.Start with a game engine if your focus is to actually release a game. What engine? Depends on the type of game you want to make:All rounders are Unreal Engine, Unity, Godot at the moment but there are others like RPG Maker or Ren'Py. UE is mostly for 3d and high fidelity whilst Godot is more for 2d, Unity is more battletested but in the past years it's been kinda shady so unless you are really knowledgeable in unity I'd stay away.Force yourself to watch a crash course on the engine of your choosing then make the engine's documentation your home. You won't know stuff, you will make mistakes, you will make prototypes for every little mechanic you want to implement. Making mistakes is fine. Try to consolidate everything so it 'clicks' in your mind. That's the most important (& frustrating) part.By this point you should realize that coding is probably the least of your worries when making a vidya. Take Hollow Knight for example. The character and the npcs don't have the most advanced moveset and the environment is simplistic, what matters most is game design and assets. You can see this just by judging the earlier trailers. They had designs and even mechanics like swimming that disappeared from the released version. That's normal, sometimes the idea that you want to implement might change over time. But do learn game design and asset making or pay someone to do it for you, those are way more important.If you don't want to start with a game engine, honestly? Good luck! Use TokyoSpliff or the existence of as an inspiration
>>744523158>visual scriptingCan you tell me more about this? Is it possible to make complex games just with visual scripting? Because it sounds like basic Game Maker drag and drop, which didn't seem to be all that robust.
>>744523182Almost hit the limit so I'll add this as an addendum.Another very important thing to keep in mind is scope. Have something solid. Take a look at the most recent successful indie, Meccha Chameleon, easily retired the devs with $20 mil each. They made it in Unreal but had a solid and simple idea & scope which worked out. If you pursue vidya for financials friendslop is your best bet, you'll have streamers and groups paying to play if the game is solid, or you just get lucky. On a similar branch were other games like Peak or R.E.P.O. or the forefather of modern friendslop, Lethal Company. What both Lethal Company and MC and Peak had in common (maybe R.E.P.O. too, but I never checked so I won't claim it) was that the devs made games before. Lethal Company's dev, a furry, made gamemodes(or maps?) in Roblox and also released games for free on itch before making LC. Peak was just a sideproject that blew up(kind of reminds me how Slay The Princess was a sideproject, but that was mainly to fund the dev's main passion game).So in short, choose your tool, do a crash course to break the ice, start simple and understand(!) the mechanics for your game scope. Try to release smaller games and eventually you'll get to your dream game. And choose if you want to learn how to make assets or have another dev. Don't know shit about marketing aside from what I said about friendslop, though, you're on your own for that.Oh and try to post about your game, even here, maybe not on /v/ most of the time, cuz apparently on /g/ they hated the ai push so much they jumped ship to /bant/ of all places. But engaging is fun, and it's a bit of marketing. Even Notch did it at some point.As a reminder from way back, homework and essay's were meant to help you consolidate your information about a subject. They might not be useful like say for biology or history but maybe the principle behind them can help you.Good luck, anon! See you on the "Top Seller" tab!
>>744521017>>744522020>
>>744520945>Having said that, how do you start? What do you need? What are the most important programming languages out there? And any other things that everyone should know when they want to try their hand at something like this.Since you said learn to code with no other qualifiers:You start by coding something. Not reading about it, not watching endless amounts of content about it. Actually doing it in practice.The important programming languages for games is C and C++ and literally nothing else. If you're relying on someone else's limited engine it's whatever but for actual coding it's C and C++. (there are a few attempts at viable replacements like Odin and Jai but i'd still recommend C/C++)Assuming you're on Windows: Download visual studio build tools, raddebugger and whatever text editor with syntax support you like, look up the syntax of C (far simpler than C++ and useful for writing library APIs even if you pick another one later) and try to make something.If you want more direction then this: >>744521187 along with the Handmade Network guys stuff like Fleury's and GingerBill's blogposts about memory models like Arenas.
>>744523328I wouldn't recommend any of these visual scripting or drag and drop environments. The hard part is not writing code, the hard part is understanding the flow of logic and the state of the program and that is the same whether you are writing code or using visuals, except code gives you infinitely more control so you can debug effectively when shit goes wrong. Just pick an engine, make some clones of old games while you're learning and then make your own stuff. >>744522883NTA but nothing has changed in the last 3 years. I use AI for writing documentation and unit tests but if you use it to write actual code, your codebase will quickly become an unmanageable clusterfuck that neither you nor your AI can fix.
>>744521017this. at least coding jobs are going to be non-existent.
>>744522020So why haven't you done that
>>744520945>Despite being on the Internet nearly all of my life, at least, for as long as I can remember, I never learned how to codeI don't see the connection, most people don't know how to fix a car or anything in general either but they still use it
>>744520945quickstart for programming>variables and constants>expressions>functions>iterationhow-to:>pick random popular language you've heard of>google "<language> beginner tutorial">follow until you've learned what the above areyou now know how to program>google "<language> pong tutorial">follow tutorial (your language probably has a generic gamedev framework that you'll use to render 2d graphics)you now have developed a game>repeat until you've gone through all the classic arcade games, in order (pong, breakout, asteroids, space invaders, up to mario)you have now developed lots of games and learned common things like movement, angles and rotation, sprite animation, spawning enemies/bullets, basic AI>go back to some of the games you've made, and add small things to them>examples include: save states (write all the vital data like current positions of all spawned entities etc. to a file, and load from it), difficulty modifiers (increases/decreases enemy HP, spawn rates etc.), customisable controls, sound effects (free audio samples are readily available), a second player...you are now equipped and able to program a real video game that you actually sell for moneypeople have developed games from this point (or even earlier) and made moneynow you just have to actually do it
>>744525269gemscreenshotting this
>>744520945You invent a word that describes what you wantYou then describe what this word does You keep on describing what it does until you get actual codeThe pipeline is concept -> codeFor this to work, you need to know the basics of a programming language.
>>744520945if you know literally nothing my suggestion is grab a programming book and follow it till the end, if you want a suggestion for noobz: Python Crash Course: A Hands-on, Project-based Introduction to Programmingnow, this should teach you the basics of programming, which is a vast field with a billion of pockets and little retarded details, to the point i can't even point you how to start programming games (in a non-hobby way)... i'd pick an engine and just mess with it and try to implement the ideas in my mindgood luck
>>744525812And it will not help him one bit. Books, online courses, forums - all useless.
>>744525397I've written it on /v/ beforeHere's my afternoon asteroids I started in odin on a whim a few years agoDecided to do it purely with vectors instead of drawing sprites, which was dumb but I managed to draw a spaceship in the end, rotate it properly and zoom it aroundWas going to compute asteroids by giving each one x points around a center, then deviating each a little in or out, and then drawing the lines between themOh and I got stuck thinking about how to wrap the points on the ship around the screenI'm just a retarded javascript monkey in my day job so I expect better things from op, if he actually follows my advice
>>7445209451: test everythingcreate things you can test, set goals to the point where you can test them. fuck the built in debugger and make debug UI's. put a pause function over everything but the draw steps and unpause with a keystroke release so you can see the process 1 frame at a time. Isolate the loop function in a new project, unravel it so each loop takes one frame so you can see what the loop is doing. make ugly glaring checkarboard textures and have them pop up when things you don't want to happen happen because they WILL happen and you want to know why.test everything!>>744521017any non-AI troubleshooting I attempted gave me a flood of outdated build instructions. be specific about what you answers you want. ask for isolated examples you can test outside your project. Don't expect it to be consistency with long term conversations. and watch out for capitalization issues.Documenting problems and solutions on a searchable platform can help others.
>prog thread>on veeA rarityHaving said that, read HTDP to learn how to break down problems.
>>744520945Kys
You can do it, Anon.
>>744520945learn at least one syntax, learn about state machines, and use the documentation.learn how xollide with objects and get info from thembreak down mechanics
This whole thread is gay as fuck
>>744530316This whole gay is thread as fuck
>>744530316No, it's not.
>>744520945The specific language matters but not if you don't know how to program.If you're completely new I recommend https://cs50.harvard.edu/x/ (do *everything* and watch the lectures).If you ever want to learn programming properly (not necessarily for game dev) I recommend https://teachyourselfcs.com/ which should keep you busy for a few years.If you only want to make games then you'll have to search for game development libraries and engines that are available, and how to glue them together and/or extend them for your needs. This requires *reading their source code* which should also take you a long time and you'll learn a lot from it.
>>744520945you can learn all of this WHILE making gameslearn a language, then learn another language and so on until you start seeing the general pattern (your 101 programming). From here I highly recommend sticking to C or C++ to get a basic understanding of pointers (that will help you understand how computer memory works). Try coding some data structures (shit like queues, stacks, hash sets, lists. You don't need to understand them, but it's a perfect way to root the understanding of memory workflow in your head)Once that's done - learn programming patterns, better start early and fail a bunch, then attempt using them blindly later. These are usually perfect blueprints to problems, you can ask AI what kind of pattern would be good to solve this and that problem and from there you should try coding it. At this point you are kind of ready but I recommend studying shaders and studying some sort of graphics library beforehand.Learn vector math, discrete math and geometry for games. Probability theory would be helpful as well. Algorithmic methods are generally useful too. The more - the better, this is the backbone of gameplay and systems. DO NOT LEARN PHYSICS unless you want to make fully CUSTOM physics for your game. (Game engines usually allow you to skip physics almost entirely, and that's too ambitious)And generally, just always try to make things. If you want to make games - make games during this learning process. Don't set incredibly ambitious goals, finishing should be your priority. Always adapt the learning process to your current needs, don't study blindly.Also learn the game engine, sooner = better.>t. 9 years of CS, 0 games released, 3 games finished
>>744531896>3 games finished>0 games releasedWhy? If the games are finished, why not just release/publish them?
>>744520945Just use AI dude, no one is writing code by hand anymore
>>744520945>reddit spacing>tldr>learn le codewaste of time, give llms 2-4 more years, by then you can gen any script.
>>744533653>reddit spacingI never understood this. Since when making texts readable is reddit spacing?
There's nothing funnier than jeets pretending you can code anything of value with an ai
>>744535914>you can code anything of value with an aiI work in banking and the whole thing is getting propped up by AI. can you imagine? Old ass code and AI code clashing and for some reason everything still work. Pray it will still work anon, we can do nothing but pray.
>>744520945just use Claude dumbass nobody codes anymore unless you're an actual genius that can revolutionize the industry
>>744520945Knowing how to do some code and actually creating something complicated will make you use AI 1000x more efficientlyYes, use AI, spoken as someone who has been in the industry a while, but know that you will make bloated buggy messes that take a trillion tokens to pivot around new ideas.
>>744537167>Claude
>>744537049>I work in banking and the whole thing is getting propped up by AI.lmao no. The web frontends and the dogshit they used to require bachelors degrees to shit out crap in Java is 'propped up by AI'. The actual banking code is ancient and you don't get to touch it because it requires compliance out the ass the second it concerns a ledger or a transfer and the external bodies that enforce compliance are arbitrary as fuck.
>>744538664No no, trust me, i'm a backend developer, i don't do frontend, i saw a bad decision by a manager and some AI code fucking up a million € movement once. Most of the code is ancient yes, the problem is when managers want it redone in a newer language and actually having that code in production. That bank i'm working with is getting sued aswell
I want to get a ThinkPad. But I don't know which one.What am I looking for, /v/?
>>744539519None. They're all crap now and the old ones are overpriced because of the meme that they were built like a tank and had everything replaceable, when that was only a few select models. And people rape you on compatible components now.Just get whatever you can get a good deal on that's modern.
>>744520945Imagine owning a Thinkpad with a trackpad. You are weak.
>>744520945You are 10 years too late for this gig also you type like a redditor.Here is a reality: From the way you describe this is its clear you fucked up your life big time, and you are having le creative urge way too late.>You are in your early 20'sIndian vibe coding who will race to the bottom is your competition. You either use AI to speed up the process on whatever the fuck gig you are making, or you fuck off from the field to get into trades, HVAC specifically. >25-30HVAC is now out of option so is your le bido gem dev dream. Your best bet is starting a low skill career like landscaping or amazon worker and climbing from that (90% you'll be stuck).>30+You are done. Whatever the fuck you do right now is not gonna work out. Your best bet is a trucker's licence and fucking off from your environment, essentially killing your current self.
It's funny how many AI shills are desperately trying to demoralize people from becoming competent at anything. Guess having lots of idiots who can't tell what's good from bad is the only way they can make their money back.
>>744532380>Why? If the games are finished, why not just release/publish them?Despite being finished they were super shitty, there was no creative process behind them too. They served their training purpose just fine, but they aren't exactly something a person with a semblance of taste would like to play. Releasing those would've been the same as saying "look what I did mom!", fucking embarrassing.
>>744520945> Learning How to Code (for videogames)>in 2026lol
>>744542001Yeah, it is more relevant than ever now.
>>744540839>there are only 5 careersyou never go outside, do you
>>744541273I always feel like it's the drawcel crabs that are trying to demoralize people that use AI. It's a new tool to learn and excel with but you have legions of troons and such telling them it's worthless and everyone hates it.
>>744544716>I always feel like it's the drawcel crabs that are trying to demoralize people that use AI. It's a new tool to learn and excel with but you have legions of troons and such telling them it's worthless and everyone hates it.
>>744521017>Just wait until AI is overI unjeetified your comment, kind stranger
1. Learn the basics of python, then:2. switch to godot + gdscript. This is the single fastest way to start developing games without being stuck with heavy limitations. As for C, C++: don't bother learning them for now. Tremendous time sink with tenuous benefits which will almost guarantee that you will never actually get to making your game.When it comes to algorithms and computer science stuff, you should learn what "complexity" means. That's why a uni programming course is generally preferrable to a youtube tutorial for learning python: it will teach you important ideas about programming instead of just the particular features of the one language you're learning.AI is pretty good at coding, but if you rely on it it might become a trap one day. Something in your project breaks, AI can't fix it, and you're stuck helplessly. You should always understand your code.
>>744520945My only advice, which I myself never abided by, is to stick with one thing (language and/or framework) until you become an expert at it. You can also freely use AI to help you with code snippets or explain things to you. That, in my opinion, is how you get things done.
>>744541273it's like stupid kids trying to bully a bright kid for reading
>>744520945Start with math and logic if you really want to learn
>>744544716or maybe it's the people who actually know how to do things who have tried to do said things with AI and seen that at best it can stitch together stackoverflow answers with all the crudeness of a junior bootcamp assembly line hire.
language doesn't matter. you can start with nodejs. it's the easiest. learn the basics. what is a function, what is a parameter, what is a variable etc. then learn how to write the Game of Life yourself. the most simple simulation imaginable but so mind expanding for someone who doesn't know how to code yet. that's how much everyone should know how to code as the bare minimum of a civilized person. it's up to you whether you want to continue or not.
>>744548872lying isn't an argument
>>744520945Sincerely, start with what motivates you.Could be following a tutorial making a simple game (without using an engine), basic coding lessons, etc.Where you start doesn't really matter, as long as you can stick with it.And yes, make heavy use of AI, not to write the code for you, but to find information, to help you as a tutor of sorts, etc.As much as I fucking hate python, I think looking for a simple Python or Javascript tutorial on making snake or whatever could be a decent entry point.For more general advice, I think C# and Java are good learning languages since they force you to do some things that help you understand certain concepts and stuff, so you could go that path too.Good luck anon. Coding is by itself pretty fun if you have that kind of autism.
>>744520945Ask for help and be patient. The most important part is to be persistent without burning out, take one step at a time and breaks.
>>744520945Well, I started by downloading an engine, And studied some demos, unreal, unity, godot.First I just clicked on things that peaked my curiosity, poking objects and seeing what was the extent of the editor, increasing values, expanding the menus, clicking on random stuff.Well, at this point I already had a programming background so I don't know if I can help you with that. There's 2 mains ways of programming, nodes/blueprints and code, the former is more intuitive, same as the high amount of demos there's a lot of examples on the internet, it relies on small blackboxes that perform functions and operations of various kinds, math, logic, graphics.Programming requires research, might be a good way to start learning anyway, search for examples and try the ones that interest you, check the documentation, it has information about the functions maybe read or watch some tutorials.
There are kind and helpful people here. I hope you guys are doing well.
>>744541273It's all part of leveragism;They don't want you be independent and capable of anything, just wage slaving and consuming.
>>744549202and neither is being too retarded to be able to identify the issues with work produced by LLMs but hey here we are.
>>744547983another way would be RPGMaker (MZ), if he learns the small amount of JS necessary, C/C++ will be very easy later onwhile python is excellent, if python is the first language you learn, it could teach you some bad habits unfortunately, and transitioning to a "fiddly" language like C will be VERY painful
>>744524393Nah, you missed the boat on using c or c++ at this point. Becoming competent at using engines like unreal, unity, or godot is a much much more efficient use of your time than coding in c++. A hobbyist game dev is not going to make a project that requires forced c++ optimization. This is overall terrible advice and the fact you name dropped the piece of shit jai says it all.
You don't. I'm old (graduated College in '14) and I was torn between getting my Masters in CS and Engineering. Went with Engineering and I'm fucking glad. I did take some coding classes but very basic shit, C++, Ruby and Python but with AI there's zero need to be able to do anything yourself.
>>744540724>using a 20 year old stinkpadPa/g/eet.
>>744521017these posts make /v/ so asshurt but they still cannot refute that there is literally no one left still manually writing code>>744521561t. hasn't used AI since 2023
People who use "code" as a verb never have any idea what they're talking about
>>744524393This, start with the greeks
>>744523182>RPG MakerNot OP, but I have been intereted in messing around RPG Maker for a while, which version would be best to start with if I'm also a total noob at coding? Or can I use any?
>>744550274all hail k&r
>>744526119>that fontThat's gotta be raylib. Raylib is neat
>>744523182I think Godot will become more popular and grow into something like Unity eventually, but better. Godot is really good for prototyping games. You can also use their script which is similar to python or use c#. Godot is an engine that isn't tied to a specific genre and is the quickest to get something going, without being as complex as Unity or Unreal. It's better for 2D, but you can do 3D and i think it will be used more for the 3D in the future. Most people want quick results, but also want to make a hobby game or something specific they have in mind. I would reccomend Godot for most people. Godot is open source and it does lack a lot of features that Unity has, but it's a lot more beginner friendly in my opinion. It would take a lot of work to make a really great game in Godot, but i would suggest it people starting out. Even if it doesn't become as prominent as Unity, it will scratch an itch. Being able to play your own hobby games faster will me more motivating to continue to work on making games and improving. Plus being a bit limited in scope and design helps. It can allow you to focus on small 3D worlds and refine mechanics. If you can make a fun little game using Godot then you could scale up if Godot expands features in the future.
>>744526119>Decided to do it purely with vectors instead of drawing sprites, which was dumb but I managed to draw a spaceship in the end, rotate it properly and zoom it around>Was going to compute asteroids by giving each one x points around a center, then deviating each a little in or out, and then drawing the lines between them>Oh and I got stuck thinking about how to wrap the points on the ship around the screenthis nigga is pythagoras
>>744551115I only want to say I'm also a big fan of Godot and it's 100% worth it for 2D (or even 2.5D, like Outrun or smth) games. When I found out they are implementing 3D I grew a bit sad, as they could have used that effort to make a parallel management engine/module/modules for 2D (like RPGMaker) but that's life and I'm happy for them either way.
>>744521017people are shitting on you but it's like half rightthe modern AI tools are as useful as ctrl+c and ctrl+v are, it's somewhat stupid not to use them in your toolbox
>>744551435>this nigga is pythagoraslol
>>744550252So what it should be called then?
>>744551942You need to pay to copy and paste that code to begin with. No shit it is convenient but reliance on it is what the corporations want to maximize their profit.
>>744520945Just us AI nigga. You think anyone will be able to tell if a human wrote code?
>>744523328iirc wasnt expidition 33 mostly made with visual scripting? dont care for the game myself, but it still shows that you are capable of doing quite a lot with VS if that is true.
What is visual scripting?
>>744521017fpbpt. senior software engineer (employed as tech lead)
>>744521017AI sucks balls if you don't know what you doing. AI is great to do repetive shit you know how to do but you still need to know coding.
>>744521561retard
>>744556795lying as fucking
>>744521017>AI is too retarded without a competent tard wrangler to make it work>meaning you still need to learn how to code>AI better than humans and won't need a competent tard wrangler>Normies will just generate their own slop to playIf AI is so good, generate me a Noita with a similar physics engine with a gameplay loop that isn't rogueslop.
>>744521017>Just kill yourself
>>744557396>create rogueslop that isn't rogueslopgenius!
>>744521946>Saaar the coding is to be over now you are bitch mother onlyfans luddite now you are not refuting me timmys
Is W3schools good for anything or is that just a meme?
