Why settle for translations? Come to the bright side, gamer.
kowloon's gate suckedbrightis suckedevery single JP-only hidden gem turned out to be dogshityou lost tranny
I tried but it just doesn't stick. Especially the grammar. I think I'm just too old to learn Japanese at this point (27)
I only play games with zero dialogue and zero text. I've grown tired of language.
>>744579802>every single JP-only hidden gem turned out to be dogshit
>>744579808I started when I was 29, now I'm 33 with around N3 (4 out of 6 years of courses, should end up with around N2). I've also gone through all jouyou kanji on Anki and now am reading manga in parallel.Would have I been faster if I just read shit on my own instead of doing courses? I don't know, I had done that before, and it felt very annoying to look up every other word constantly.
>>744579690Japanese is an awful languageI hate localization trash, but it’s not worth engaging with it
>>744580261It is best to put aside all thoughts of "efficiency" or "speed" when learning a foreign language
>>744580261You probably have a higher IQ and/or better memory than me I was at it for a year and that only took me to N5/4Depressing as fuck when I see teens who got to N4 in a month or two
>>744580167>Danganronpa but worse
>>744580891>no men>worse
>>744579690I'm working on it
>>744581063Well, how's it going?
>>744579690There's this little secret faggots pushing others to learn japanese won't tell you:99.999% who try either quit or end up WORSE than those 'baaaaaad translators' everyone's so concerned about wasting a lot of time for nothing.Also once you're done, you realize those 'deep' and 'profound' implication of 'nuanced' japanese writing mean jack shit when majority of text is like 'baka suki sugoi pocky-sama omanko miteru chinchin sepuku'.
>>744581351you sound angry
yeahhh well at least I did some reading today after many a month. I guess I have to get my hands dirty again
Am I stupid?
literally not a single game I give a shit about that's jp only and nothing good is coming out of japan ever again
>>744581241Not bad, I'm a lazy retard though so I've only recently started really taking it seriously instead of just doing anki every day and acting like that's sufficient. Now for the most part I read for around one hour a day, which might sound like nothing but given how lazy I am it really does feel like a huge accomplishment to me. I'm wondering if I should also pick up another VN besides the one I'm reading right now, I'm reading the original Tsukihime and it's not super difficult or anything but I've heard there are better VNs for beginners and I had been thinking about reading Kanon since before I even started learning.
>>744579808>>744580463Age has nothing to do with it. I started in my thirties and I'm reading serious literature aimed at educated adults without issue after three years. You just need to grind it out. How could people even study at an university if they turn into retarded automatons unable to learn anything new the second they turn 18 or whatever?
>>7445796903 months into my kaishi 1.5k deck, i have about 800 vocab "learned" probably only half of that is kanji though. its getting kind of hard now and this is only the beginning, i feel like my brain can't hold all this knowledge
>>744582896>university>learningAnyway neuroplasticity and other such copes are just from babies scared of being humbled from starting at zero as an adult so they want a socially acceptable excuse as to why they can't start at all.
I already have most of the games I wanted to see get translations at this point. Only one I can think of off the top of my head that still doesn't is Legend of Heroes II (not the PSP game, that was misnumbered).>>744580167They're working on translating this one already.
>>744580167This is the worst offender in recent years and I can't wait to see EOPs find out how overrated this piece of shit VN has been. The anon calling it Danganronpa but worse is not even accurate, it's too much praise for this baby slop filled with yuribait.Manosaba is another japanese mysteryge falling victim to the modern trend of writing plot and characters as mlilequetoast as possible, having little significant gameplay to have the player involved in figuring out the logic of the cases. This is the first time I played one of those games and already knew well in advance whodunnit and how things played out. Fuck you shill, I wasted a lot of hours on this trash and I can't even refund or rewind time. Even DR1-3 or 2-3 were less insulting
I started learning about 20 years ago. However I'm the burst/burnout type. First summer I spent 2 months grinding through 2500 kanji with Heisig before burning out. Also got basics of grammar down.A year later I got through half of Core6k, then another year and another burnout later the second half of it.Meanwhile every burnout I completely stopped doing my Anki deck. Today my deck has about 15000 words in it but I haven't touched it for 2 years. I'm somewhat stagnating or slowly improving nowadays. I no longer study, instead every few months or once a year I go through another burst phase and read an entire VN or two. At this point I can read your typical high school romantic comedy without a dictionary, though I'm still more comfortable with a text hooker because there are always unknown words every few sentences. Anything harder than that, like scifi or a VN with heavier dictionary with a faggot writer like SCA-ji and I absolutely need that text hooker just for comprehension, too many unknown words. I no longer write down unknown words since I'm not doing my anki reps anyway. I just hope I kinda remember them. I'm mostly stuck in this half-assed state where I can now read moe games fairly easily, but I'll probably never get to the point of reading something more serious without a text hooker. This means anything with auto-advancing text, console games, etc are kinda off limits.
>>744579690I'm busting my ass to learn this eldritch language. I still can't do it. I still can't speak a word of it after years. You want to say something as simple as "use" and then you're bombarded with 6 gorillion words: 生かす, 使う, 利用, 用いる, 駆使, 使いこなす, 用途, 用法, 使い方, 使い道, etc. and they all mean "use"
>>744583445How did it even get popular
>>744582857>instead of just doing anki every day and acting like that's sufficient.wait it's not?
>>744584003anon...
>>744582857I've heard yuzuge are good for it since they let you toggle English on/off with a press of a button
>>744583906Good chara design and high budget presentation. As always normalfags falling for smokescreens like with schrodinger's call or urban myth dissolution center
>>744583850Make use of, to use, use, utilize, command, to master, usage, utilization, use method, way of using.Monolinguals fall in this trap of being angered at other languages having synonyms, but are blind to their own.As a learner, focus on understanding what these words means and don't worry about when to use which. Just understand.Slowly you get a sense for which one is appropriate on which situation and you will have to make some mistakes before polishing it.Plus, lots of synonyms are written-language only and Japs will stick to a couple general purpose terms.
>>744583445Agreed. It's a game that got carried by its fanbase and the memes they made
>>744583063>i feel like my brain can't hold all this knowledgeit can but it wont solidify unless you start encountering it in "nature" ie. reading and watching
>>744584178No one ever explains how to use 用いる. You just see it in the dictionary and it's listed as a synonym for 使う but when you use it they always say "use 使用 or 使う instead"I English you can talk about shit like storage utilization and utilizing resources (i.e. how much they're being used, or making the most out of them). In Japanese... You get shit like 使用率 appearing out of the fucking blue.
>>744584485how are you supposed to read or watch shit when you don't know half the grammar/vocab
>>744583445Yeah I also came out extremely disappointed by manosaba. If you've played the games in this genre like gyakuten saiban or dangan, this is a temu version with none of the magic (which is ironic considering the setting)Call me a shill, I won't care. But play Tyrion Cuthbert, Of The Devil, Trials Of Innocence, Raging Loop or Your Turn To die instead
>>744584797You can figure shit out from context>b-but I only know 10% of wordsThen you try to infer things from context and other cues. e.g. If you see someone saying 「会いたかったよ」 after not meeting someone for a long time, then its meaning must be "I really missed you" or something.
>>744584797The same way I did it with english, figuring things out through context and looking up words when you have no idea. It was unintentional learning and I progressed much faster doing it this way watching subbed anime
>>744579690japanese is a very ugly language and I don't wish to learn it.
>>744584992>ching chong ching chong ching chong ching chong HATE ching chong ching chong ching chong ching chong >bro just figure it out from context
>>744584989what the FUCK is this anon this looks gay as fuck
>>744585262>I want to dive into shows for teenagers without so much as pausing to open a dictionaryNow how it works
>>744585034>looking up words>unintentional learning
How/where do I even start learning japanese from?
>>744585262Humans have something called pattern recognition which helps remembering certain strings of chings and chongs if you hear them enough, even if you don't know what they mean. Unless you're just a dub monkey with no exposure to the spoken language at all in which case you're way ahead of yourself and need to start smaller.
>>744584716Well, if someone came to you and said "I always utilize shoyu when cooking dinner", wouldn't that jump at you as a bit too much?Again, focus on passive understanding of meaning for growth. Producing your own Japanese is for refining what you already know. If you are getting to a point where people are correcting your word choice, it means you made good progress, but the journey never ends.I do have a rather stiff English vocabulary (ESL), but I refuse to change because people say the same about my native language, that I sound like an old man or something. So you have to find a sweet-spot between understanding the nuances of the language and still expressing ideas in the way you want it to come across.And don't forget, a lot of times synonyms are just that and there is no reason why one should be used over the other, happens in every language.Look up a website called Ninjal for collocation, it's very useful.
>>744585792https://learnjapanese.moe/routine/
>>744579690i know, it really is a life goal of mine to learn japanese, well how to read it at the very least.
>>744585867I passed the N2 you AI slop-guzzling clown
>>744585627that's a different argument entirely but having to open a dictionary every sentence will completely drain any and all enjoyment from what you're reading/watching >>744585809if you could just lmao pattern recognize your way into sentences that are 50% unknown words nobody would need to actively learn
>>744586142That's on you for conflating understanding a whole sentence with all the words brin being unintelligible moon sounds you can't become accustomed to in the first place. It also just tells me you haven't actually tried to learn at all and are just drive-by shitposting in the funny face thread.
>>744586462you are such a pedantic faggot
>>744583850When you are just starting out and there are multiple ways to say something, just use the one that you know best. You'll learn the nuance of the others in time, the important thing is to just start
>>744586570Not my fault you're compelled to defend petty shitposts. Go somewhere else if you want a hugbox that only agrees with you.
Looks like literally everyone and their mother on 4chan know jap these days.No point learning it, I'll learn Chinese instead, it's the better language anyway. Glad I stuck with latin though.
>>744586910what the fuck is the point of learning chinese
>>744586935It's a country with an actual culture and history.I've also found that Chinese LNs were miles better than VNs and manga to be frank
I think Japanese sounds ugly. I know i'm in the minority though.
>>744579690Anything more complex than one clause may as well be gibberish to me. It's frustrating as fuck knowing literally all the words in a given sentence but particle retardry magically changes the role of every word in it.>English: x is y because z>Japanese: x, because of z, is YNihongo's sentence structure is like you're trying to sputter the details out to the police after being chased by a serial killer down 3 city blocks.
>>744587003its wuxiashit innit
>>744587041kek I have the exact same problem
>>744587041The latter example is plenty common in formal english, sounds like native speaking bias to me.
It feels surreal having actual learned japanese and reading hentai.
Learning a second language when you speak English is disgraceful, especially in the age of AI.
LLMs have killed language learning. Set up a RAG on anything and you're good. It'll be (quality) professional grade in two years maximum
>>744587282h dialogue makes me cringe so I kind of like reading raws and not knowing what the text says
>>744587353>two more years bro
>>744586094Well done. I passed the N1 with 3 years of moderate study and have been just passively absorbing the language for the past 7 years, and I would say that doesn't mean much, you can still suck at collocation even beyond N1.The fact that you think me utilizing words for more than snappy remarks makes me "AI" indicates you utilize language as a tool, not as nuanced expression.In that case, stick to always utilizing the simplest word available and don't overexert your Dunning-Kruger brain.I don't know what it is with Japanese learners that it always devolves in some sort of dick-measuring contest, but at least you can sleep well knowing that size doesn't matter when it comes to consuming media.
>>744587491They're already good enough with a RAG.But in two years it'll be literary tier.
>>744579690I've learned like 2000 words and I simply can't get any further. I'm sick of drowning in flash cards. Not like I can live in japan anyways, I've watched too many high seas anime and I'm a fat guy.
>>744587527>I don't know what it is with Japanese learners that it always devolves in some sort of dick-measuring contest,anon you're literally engaging it in as well nta btw i think you're both kinda gay
>>744579690I'm working on it but regardless of my progress even with stuff I use for practice I still get insecure often enough that I just look up translations anyway which often enough also feel off but "they probably know their shit better than I do so it must be right"
>>744579690
>>744587624How so? I am telling him my qualifications are easily thrice as his, yet it's all meaningless, because languages aren't tests.I am giving him a way to get out of his dictionary-induced rut yet he thinks that is beneath him because he put a thousand hours into something that takes a lifetime of learning.Don't complain about a problem if you don't want to be told how to fix it, only women do that.
>>744587353Learning the language allows you to sink balls deep into their culture but i guess that doesn't really matter for vidya.
>>744586142Pick up semantically transparent vocabulary (木, 車, 風, 家, ドア, トイレ) and work from there. Then start looking up topics. e.g. the basic questions: トイレはどこですか, 誰がパーティーに来ますか, 何をしていますか, バスは居つ来ますか, どうやってこのパソコンを起動させるのですか.Take advantage of patterns, like 木製->made of wood->製 can be used as a suffix. 木でできている made of wood, 木で作ったもの something made of wood (e.g. chair), 木からできている made from wood (e.g. paper). you can swap wood for other materials (e.g. 鉄製, 金属製, 銅製, アルミ製) and you've suddenly multiplied the words you know)It's not anyone's fault if you can't be bothered to take advantage of all the things at your disposal>b-but the chingchong moonrunes!You have pop-up dictionaries, texthookers, OCR, translation tools, flashcards, tricks to them (like phono-semantic compounds, the 5 categories compounds fall into, lists of radicals, etc.), etc. available. Use them
>>744587903anon if someone goes >i got a 7 inch dick and you respond with >well MY dick is 8 inches but not like that matters :)you are still engaging in dick measuring regardless of the little disclaimer
>>744587983>居つ来ますかいつ来ますかIME acting up again
I feel like only EOP struggle by internalizing everything in EnglishWhen I learn any foreign word its meaning is literally [foreign word] in my head once I've learned it once, stop translating in your head.
You need comprehensible input if you want to learn a language. Diving straight into native media while understanding nothing is a waste of time. So yes peppa the pig is more suitable than anime.
>>744588159I've read you should shoot for understanding 80% of what you are listening to for it to be useful learning input
>>744588130Wouldn't that just have the opposite effect?
>>744588159wrong. I never ever bothered with stuff apart from native stuff. You WILL start understanding little by little no matter what the content. The basics are the same. Stop spreadung misinformation
>>744587983this is sound general advice but it doesn't really have anything to do with my post
i read a picture that had two sentences and FIVE whole different kanji and i understood everything in it. felt like a fucking genius
>>744588368stop misleading newbies
>>744588319I don't see how, sure you can end up with chimera sentences in your head where some of it is understood natively and the rest of it is translated in your head which give you a warped (but still close enough) meaning but you learn much faster that way
>>744588403it's the small victories that fuel motivation
>>744588478You are the one doing harm here. There is nothing wrong with starting with kid shit. The problem is that you deny that it is possible to start eith more interesting media. You are discouraging the newbies. I would've never started if I thought that I had to slog through stuff that i did not care about.
>>744588368>>744588310Who do I trust here
>>744584003It is not. Please read regularly, it's the only real way to progress. Also, don't neglect grammar, it's very important and fairly easy to get it to stick despite how boring it can be to study>>744584129I'm just using the texthooker for Kanji I don't know
>>744588643think of it this way: if you don't understand any of what you are hearing and can't associate the words to ideas they represent, then what are you really learning?
>>744585451nta but it's a competent AA clone. not that good and I can't compare it against whatever jap-only game he was talking abuot but it had good ideas
>>744588837If this were true then learning any language would be impossible
>>744588752Well grammar can be learned through reading too. It will take longer but it's enough
>>744588752what do you even read besides visual novels? im a couple months in and know about 800 vocab and i wanted to start reading some manga in japanese just to find out its nearly impossible to find manga raws because the nips don't share it, and westoids don't need it either because they just read it translated
>>744588946>start reading some manga in japanese just to find out its nearly impossible to find manga rawsI use otakuraws and mangafire
>>744589000sorry rawotaku"" lol
>>744588891languages are learned because you have 2 parents correcting all your mistakes for years while you're learning the language
>>744588752>and fairly easy to get it to stickwell i might be retarded then because i can't get it to stick i've tried cure dolly and tae kim and neither really worked well >>744588946rawkuma[japanese title] zipnyaa.sialso a lot of the official sites nowadays will let you read new/old chapters thats what i use but yeah sadly finding raws can be very annoying
>>744588891incorrect, because if you are watching the right content, it is associating the words to context that you can understand. For example: if you're starting from nothing, you want to watch videos made for beginners that illustrate the words being spoken as they are presented to you so your brain builds associations. If you start from nothing and watch native content that is just people talking without such illustrations, you are just hearing things with no context and not learning
>>744588946yeah the raw manga scene is a mess but you can find most of the stuff on nyaa (which would lead you to dlraw).
>learned the pregnancy (妊娠) kanji while reading loli impregnation doujins this morningIt's a great feeling.
>>744588929Yes, that's basically what I was doing for the first little while but once I started actually reading a guide everything became clearer almost instantly>>744588946I've just gone to nyaa for almost everything, although the only manga I've tried to read thus far were untranslated volumes I bought physically. My focus is mostly on VNs because wanting to read them untranslated is why I started learning in the first place.
>>744589223Is Sanoba Witch a good starter VN once I'm done with kaishi 1.5k?
>>744589172you learn better when aroused so hentai is actually really good...
>>744589223I hope the chinks never take away their cornucopia of direct downloads of every game under the sun. Fuck finding seeders, fuck seeding, I will play Princess fucker sims today.
>feel like hot shit after being 80% finished with kaishi deck>decide to try and read manga in jp for the first time>took me like 10 minutes to read 1 page while mouthing each word slowly like a blubbering retardyeah im not feeling so good anymore bwos...
>>744587527>passed the N1 with 3 years of moderate study>I don't know what it is with Japanese learners that it always devolves in some sort of dick-measuring contestmerkste selber, ne?
>>744589639I felt the same way reading yotsuba for the first time. It will get easier if you keep going at it.
>>744589639just keep going. learn some grammar. the first steps are the hardest. many get filtered before even making it to n5
>>744589639Focus on the positive: you were able to read a full page of text that you couldn't read before
>>744589639post the page
>>744588130>I only think of [word] in foreign language and don't establish connections between different languagesYou're missing the point. Not to mention that not leveraging your knowledge in another language is a waste.The difficulty in jap stems from things having a gorillion different ways to express them that and no coherent source that lists them. e.g. ~ている, つつある, ~中(ちゅう, なか is used for other stuff) for actions in progress.Then you're hit with shit that you'd never think of saying: it's impossible to guess what you should say.>imagine dialogue for a shopkeeper>you surmise he'd ask "何を探していますか">you're hit with お探し物ですか?>suddenly keigo in your face, and that noun (お探し物) + です is actually marking a progressive action>it doesn't even match what you imagined (it's asking whether you're looking for something, not what)>you couldn't have seen this coming in a million years.And to top it off you get そのほかにわたくしどもでお力になれることは? わたくしども (us lowly people)? Become power? Who the fuck came up with this shit?So you get really pissed off because your textbooks don't mention any of this shit and you can't apply anything you've learned. It's all unintuitive as fuck.In any other language you'd just ask what the fuck are you looking for? and anything else? Not so with jap
>>744589639>10 minutes is enough to make you feel badYou're retarded. You are supposed to take a very long time advancing, what matters is that you can now actually make progress.Feels like you retards have never started doing anything seriously in your life, it's like fatties who never ran and feel bad because they're not hitting 45 minutes on a 10km run. You're supposed to take breaks, walk and do a dogshit time.
>>744589072>just hearing things with no contextbut there is context. If you watch visual media you connect the visual with the spoken. This is how babies learn languages. If you read you obviously need some vocabulary to start and get the ball rolling from there. If you are smart you learn vocab while immersing to maximize learning. No catered content needed anywhere and its disingenious to claim otherwise since MOST PEOPLE don't learn languages through curated special content
>>744590372my main point is that no matter what you are watching, make sure your brain is connecting dots and you are understanding most of what you are watching. If you aren't, you are right, you can learn some things from it, but it is inefficient compared to comprehensible input
You should be able to read this.
>>744589720>>744589768>>744589773ty kind anons>>744590014it was the first 2 pages in bleach where ichigo is beating up the delinquents>>744590296yeah, i didn't expect it to be easy but i just feel like i got reality checked
>>744589639>10 minutes to read a pageYou were looking it up on say Jisho and learning during that time right?Maybe making notes on grammar you feel is missing?
>>744590640There you are absolutely right. Passive watching/listening wont and doesn't work. Effort is always needed
漢字は僕を倒した
>>744590698I can read everything but the word in question>look it up BULLSHIT no fucking way elementary school kids know this
>>744590840More like 漢字にやられた
>>744590137It's because japanese idioms have their seams showing, unlike most western languages idioms haven't evolved to conform to an everyday speech registry. When you're learning a foreign language some idioms will be intuitively graspable but you won't actually know they're idioms until you have more experience with the language. That being said, I'd prefer to never leverage any prior language knowledge when learning a new one because it's extremely easy to be lured into a false sense of understand and once the flawed comprehension takes root, it's a pain to get rid off it. People are better off struggling more but learning cleanly imo.
>>744590137これから意見はちゃんと考えをまとめてからもっと搔い摘んで伝えたらどう?
>>744590868t. gyaru dragon that only thinks about games food and sex
>>744590137I use 真・完全マスター and it groups grammar by concept (though certain concepts exist across all their N4/N3/N2/N1 books, so you're not just learning all the reasons to attribute a reason to something ("because") in one book, later books deal with more nuanced grammar). The individual lessons don't feel extremely long, but they do feel extremely dense. It'll ask you to choose between different grammar with near identical meaning for a variety of sentences and it's up to you to really examine the respective grammar examples and explanations to grasp the slightly different nuance.Even the N3 ~というわけではない is explained as "It's not that~, but rather..." while the N2 version shows you the more nuanced use where it's only a partial negation rather than an outright denial "It's not necessarily that~, but rather...". You could say "It's not necessarily that I have feelings for him (but those feelings may in fact be there), but rather I don't want to see him being hurt by someone I think is using him"They're JLPT level questions though, and they have some doozies. Sometimes you have to figure out if a sunset is a gradual action (the time it takes to fully sink below the horizon from a set point) or a momentary action (the moment the sun drops below the horizon) to Japanese people.
>learn japanese to play games>instead use it to read japanese shitposts on twitter and translate ai fetish videos for my AGP gooner friend
You know more kanji than a 9 year old right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPB_J6Egi28One of my goals was finishing part 1 of chainsaw man in japanese and now after finishing it a few weeks ago I feel lost
>>744591914>calling your friend AGP for being a gooner dick move bro
>>744590698i have terrible news for you
>>744592467meant for>>744590868
Realistically, how hard would I be shooting myself in the foot by just doing anki + reading + a basic grammar guide? I can't into this fancy phonetic semitic phonetic prepositional radical based vocalization grouped learning method bullshit
>>744592585you're an anime girl poster - most likely you'll fail spectacularly
I just use AI to translate in real time.I will never be japanese and I already accepted it.
>>744592764good morning saar
>>744592764why would you even want to be? being japanese almost guarantees you'll have a small penis and there isn't a fate worse known to man
>>744592920>and there isn't a fate worse known to manbeing an ugly man
>>744592920>there isn't a fate worse known to manAren't you forgetting a central South Asian country?
>>744592386Well he's still AGP outside of gooning in any case.
>>744593774what makes you so sure
>>744589693And a heil Hitler to you too, young lady.>>744592585Vocabulary is the most important aspect of any language.If you can keep up with your reviews, there is no choice but to learn the language due to simply understanding all the words and stringing the meaning together.I recommend 20 words a day, once you have 6 thousand you will stop struggling, once you have 10 thousand you will start enjoying, once you have 60 thousand you may stop.For grammar, just go through Tae Kim for a primer.Anything after that can be googled on-the-spot when you fail to understand something, and you can make flashcards for the grammar vocab instead of worrying about its particulars.Do not neglect speaking and knowing the proper spelling of words, or Chinese compounds and Katakana Engrish will come and bite you in the ass.Studying kanji is optional, if you plan to have long-term mastery of the language do it, but you can just focusing on being able to read words that come your way and your brain will sort out the kanji in its own abstract, flawed way that gets the job done.
>>744594013i'd rather not get into it
>>744594106>I recommend 20 words a daywhat the fucki can barely handle 10
>>744594537Well, I was an Ankidrone, frontloading vocab because it's the most mileage you get out of studying.But if you do 10 a day while doing other things, like reading some grammar guides, trying to piece together some mango or anime, you are still doing a good job.I just think it's useless to power through media before you are at least a few thousands into vocabulary, cause you just have to check every single word and nothing feels familiar.With dictionary tools you can of course read everything, but it makes the process boring and inefficient. Flashcards are boring and efficient. But delay the gratification.I was also adding new words found in media to my Anki deck, and despite not being a heavy consumer, I would quickly hit my daily limit of 20 and stop. Not ideal, but my autism didn't allow me to ignore words. If you ignore what you don't know, 10 a day is not a bottleneck to your enjoyment.
>>74459453710 is a good baseline. a lot of people even drop it down to 5. 20 is on the high end for sure
>>74459494720 is default on Anki, if you drop it to 5 you'll be learning at the pace of a snail
AI translate already invalidates TRANSlators. Simple, easy, free (quality depends on AI used). Learning is for dummies, AI is the future.
>>744595124good morning saar
>>744579690ffs just move the eyes in a few pixels, this artist sucks so bad
>>744595250It's an acquired taste.After enough exposure and Stockholm syndrome, you crave her disdainful, judging expression.
>>744579690Thanks to AI translations you dont need to learn japanese for 99% of things and japan is pozzed now so new shit coming out is already badt. learnt japanese and now i barely use it to the point im starting to forget it
I started speaking on iTalki... it's so hard and despite so much study i can't say the things i want to sayOn the other hand it's really fun and i can speak and understand someone in japanese language, even jokes at time. Holy fuckin' shit right :D
>>744594106halbe bibel ganzer hurensohn
Early immersion can work but you need to be extremely dedicated to it.For instance, six hours every day for a week on an entry level moege with Textractor will make you improve by leaps and bounds.The issue is that you have to enjoy the process otherwise you won't be properly focused, personally I can stare at a textbox with cozy generic sol music for an entire day.
>>744595635>personally I can stare at a textbox with cozy generic sol music for an entire dayyeah, because you're an autist and a retard
>>744595748One of these days you won't need audiobooks to read novels anymore, adhdbro.
>>744587961What does "TMAI" means?
>>744579690I'm not doing it for "translations", learning japanese by itself is a fun game
I am hoping for a bit of advice please, you have given good advice before and I am very thankful.I just finished the 1.5k deck with this format. Audio, furigana and the kanji on the front. I am using wanikani which I don't really like.. not sure mmnomic devices are the way to go cuz like you're tying your japanese to English in a way.Anyway that's an aside. Wonder what deck to do next? Was thinking of doing the 1.5k deck without furigana to try and lock down some kanji.Also any resources for manga that have clean text/ furigana? If you make one i'll love you 4ever.
>>744596187do you mean you see the kanji + furigana on the front without tapping it? if so, i would recommend removing the furigana from the front + move the sentences from the front to the back. sometimes with that deck, you end up memorizing the sentence instead of the actual word
>>744596187start mining your own cards from reading
>>744596187>Also any resources for manga that have clean text/ furigana? If you make one i'll love you 4ever.mangafire and RawOtaku
>>744596290Yea i definitely memorize a lot of the sentences especially ones with katakana loanwords in them.Although i'm not sure if it's memorizing the sentence or actually just reading it (or part of it) to give extra extra context to remember the word.I'm not sure I like the idea of trying to remember kanji just by looking at it out of context though
>>744596187Don't use mnemonics. Once you're finished with the 1.5k, you start immersing and mining your own kanji.If you're unemployed, you should be N1 in a year.
>>744596187MINE MINE MINE Do NOT fall for for the core 2k/8k meme they have a bunch of dumb corporate shit you will never need >Also any resources for manga that have clean text/ furigana?Shonen manga basically all have furigana
just noticed that 精鋭 and精液have the same kanji in it kek
>>744596697The scans I have the furigana is always so blurry and the IRL manga i have the furigana is small. It'd be cool if someone edited some manga to add clean text so you can zoom in on it and read it more easily (ofc if you just read the kanji it's no problem..)
>>744596620>If you're unemployed, you should be N1 in a year.What the fuck I only made it to N5/4 in a year
>>744596963nta but it depends on how much time you spent each day
>>744596963Depends on how much time you allocate to it each day. N1 in a year is unrealistic for most people but if you're unemployed and dedicate like 70% of your free time to it then it's achievable especially if you're already an ESL.
>>744596932Get yomininja and plug the jewgle OCR engine. It works on any kanji that's even remotely legible. I use that setup for everything - games, manga, VNs, doujinshi, random fanart etcIt just werks It will scan the text and basically give you an overlay where it's converted into regular plaintext which you can yomitan on the fly
>>744596963Me too. Normally you get pretty good advice but then the freaks come and start shitposting and telling you to kill yourself. So my advice as a noob, don't stay in these threads and instead go watch something in japanese lmao
>>744597193only sane thing to do
>>744597032>>744597110I did like 15-30 mins of anki and then 30-60 mins of immersion. My brain can't really handle more than that any more and I feel like absolutely nothing is sticking.
>>744596963That's normal. Japanese learning threads are always filled with those 1% of people who can just crank out a new language like nothing. They're not representative of the average person and shouldn't be thought of as such. If you're learning, you're winning.
>>744597275you can do more unless you are mentally deficient. take a nap every hour for 10 minutes if you need to
I wish I didn't have a job. I'm lucky to get through my SRS reviews for the day let alone spending time on immersion or reading
>>744597152Not sure I like the ease of access of these programs to the language. Isn't struggling to recall a word the most important part?Feels a bit like cheating somehow and as a beginner it's more suited to advanced learners
These threads always get deleted from /a/ so I'm just going to post this here.RIP to anyone who read the Berserk FanTL, they straight fucked this scene.
>>744597275Not that suprising then. You know immersion works for you when it ceases to be a duty and that you get so much into what you're reading that you end up spending your entire day on it. With your average of 1 hour a day for a year, being at N4 isn't abnormal.
>>744597403>Isn't struggling to recall a word the most important part?You use it for words you've never seen before. Compared to older methods all you're really cheating yourself out of is having to manually draw the kanji to look it up in a dictionary.
>>744597606True but I can see myself being too trigger happy and just using it on everything which doesn't seem like effective study.Anyway thanks for the advice
>>744597152just imagine when this stuff gets to the point that you can just put on a pair of smart glasses and have it translate everything that you see
>>744597415lol
>>744597728Yeah not gonna lie it is very easy to get too trigger happy and end up looking words you already knew but just didn't recognize immediately and could've probably remembered if you thought about it for a bit longer
>>744597765the experience would still be inferior due to cultural barriers + nuances within languages that are untranslatable. Not that your average /v/tard cares
>>744597415Why did you had to show me that...Now I have to go and read the RAW manga...
>>744597890Only matters for actual high brow literature.
>>744597403>>744597728Replace your JPN-->ENG dictionaries with JPN-->JPN, problem solved.Now you can learn while you learn
y'all niggas need to get your basics rite
>>744598005Not really but ok
>>744597391>you can do more unless you are mentally deficientAt this point I think I might be
>>744598048It does, in a meaningful way at least. Sure some things remain untranslatable but lower art isn't written with enough purpose and sense of aesthetics for it to matter. Poetry will forever remain untranslatable however but no mangaka or vncuck can dabble in poetry;
>>744598067Throw away your perception of what sticks and start trusting the process. Your brain does that shit in the background as long as you get enough sleep. The most important thing is to make an absolute effort to understand and not fall for the passivity meme. You'll make it if you put in the hours and actually try
>>744597890yeah, that's the biggest hurdle when I try to have AI translate Japanese right now. It misses context and nuance pretty easily. Not sure how they solve those issues - that's for people smarter than me to figure out
>>744588946>nearly impossible to find manga rawswhat? klmanga, manga-zip, etc, or buy on bookwalker, you're trolling
>>744598190>The most important thing is to make an absolute effort to understand and not fall for the passivity meme.That's part of the problem. After an hour or two I physically cannot fully focus if I force myself I'll just end up passively going through the motions no matter how hard I try
>>744597415was his scream at the end just left untranslated?
>>744598168Not really. I'm talking about the experience of just reading another language in all it's common expressions and so on. There is never 1:1 relation between languages and something is lost in translation. I'm talking about how at some basic level when I read sentence in english and in japanese that are conveying the "same meaning" but are not trivial. There is a reminder there that alone makes learning languages worth it for me. They are phenomenologically different
>>744598610Seems pretty normal. Unless I have a good routine going and all my sleep and stuff is working, i usually get tired around 2hrs. It's totally normal as you're doing a really cognitively heavy task and you feel it when you sleep. Just be careful as mixed in with the good advice here are machiavellien characters who want to do harm to you >_<
>>744579802the beauty of opinions, for me, Kowloon is an atmospheric masterpiece.
>>744598751And yeah sure. But I'd also argue that something can be gained in translation, but for that the translator also has to be a good writer (which should be par for the course).
>>744597415>the one flower that gave me warmth... while merely a bud, you ruthlessly plucked it from the ground!! I'll never forgive you!!!>and you just took away the only warm flower of mine...... you took it away when in the flower of youth!! That cannot be forgiven!>when in the flower of youthWhat the fuck
>>744583850I wish there was a Japanese to English dictionary that would do more than just list off the words it can translate to but actually give you a description of the nuance in which that word is used compared to others. Bunpro kind of does this on some of their vocab cards, but they are far from comprehensive
I've had a couple short bursts of learning Japanese when I was into scanlating manga (typesetter monkey), but these days I don't consume enough Japanese media for it to be worth it since it would be an uphill battle to retain what I learn.
>>744598969Yomitan? Rikaikun?
>>744598969even japanese dictionaries are bad at telling you how exactly a word is used in daily conversation. only exposure can get you there
>>744579690I have so little free time that I would rather spend it all here rather than taking 10 years to reach N4.
>>744579690>>744582857>>744584003I just wrote up this guide describing how I learned Japanese. Please take a look! pastebin.com/chJCC7SX And let me know what you think>>744589062>>744589000>>744589102>>744592585Please read the above if you have the chance! Even if you already are so dekiru that you have nothing you need to learn already, perhaps you can share feedback for others.>>744589693But yeah, it's so weird how in the JP-only visual novel discords I've been in or the JP-only places (e.g. untranslated eroge general) people seem so competitive. Maybe it's a loud minority.>>744594106Based fellow Tae Kimer. I don't think you need to spam vocabulary though, that's just me.Also for people who like novels, there are graded readers, I only learned about them on /pol/ of all places yesterday.Basically they modify a book so that the first section only uses like 200 unique words and it ups it over time, very cool.Anyway to anyone who sees this, feel free to ask me any questions guys! I'm not a pro but this seems like a good thread to chat.
>>744598969LLMs are very good for this. When I learn two words that seem to mean the same thing in the dictionary I ask chatgpt to explain the difference.
>>744598969>>744599460Yeah honestly LLMs are making learning a breeze. If you're confused with synonyms, kanji, grammar... and you explain it exactly what confuses you, you get a good answer far more often than not. Free private teacher.
>>744597415>あなたは怪物の思うに身を任せることで生き長らえてきた。だが怪物を乗りこなそうとは決してしなかった>You survived by surrendering yourself to the monster's will, yet you never attempted to overcome it.>You let your soul rely on the thought of the monster and live on???????????????????
I'm back again, trying to learn it after months without touching it, but it's so hard to focus on Anki. I've even reduced my new cards to zero to work through the backlog, but the number of leeches is increasing exponentially. Immersion feels better and is easier, even if I can't understand most of it.How can I fix this? Should I just rawdog Anki? Or should I restart the Kaishi deck?
>>744598476There are manga that aren't on there >or buy>
>>744599872Maybe just start suspending a bunch of cards if you fail them 2 or 3 times
>>744599337>writing the characters on paper as I wentwhy would do this to yourself
>>744600205Because writing things makes it easier to retain them mentally, zoomer
>>744599872use FSRS keep new cards to an amount you can manage don't be a lazy faggot that keeps skipping days i'm super ADHD and even i can focus for 20 mins
>>744599460>>744599573Do the LLMs ever steer you wrong or do you find they are pretty accurate these days?
>>744600290about 10x slower as just doing it normally lmoa
incels will never be able to learn jap
Zoomers will never be able to learn Jap because they refuse to engage in any studying activities that can't be used solely on their phone
>>744600372They can definitely steer you wrong
>hiraganaEasy>katakanaLike 3% harder, but still easy>grammarA fair challenge>kanjiLiteral sorcery
>>744600205That wasn't me that replied first to you, but I do hear that it helps. I'm not 100% if it helps me though. Interesting anecdote but a classmate said writing his essays on paper in English class helped him be more creative.
>>744600509>writing his essays on paper in English class helped him be more creative.Zoomers are hilarious
>>744600498Grammar is much harder than kanji.
>>744600631Yep. Kanji is only difficult if you learn on and kun readings like a retard.
>>744600372One time I asked chatpt what the etymology for ヘドロ was and it told me it was from Dutch, which is a straight up lie. But for the most part it seems to be good. I only ask it about words that I've found in context so I can at least make sure the explanation it gives lines up with what I read.
>>744600372It's right 80% of the time which is why you should use it when you already have some kind of prior knowledge, don't hesitate to ask different LLMs too. But overall, you're doing yourself a disservice by not using it.
>>744579690There has never been LESS incentive to learn a foreign language.
>>744600560do you have a counterargument?
>>744600931Lmao do you think we're arguing? Maybe write all these posts down by hand and reread them lil nigga
>>744579690I learned Japanese and don't regret it.
>>744600631Grammar is only difficult for anki drones. Immersion chads don't even have to think about grammar, it comes naturally.
>>744589057My parents don't know English though.
>>744591031It's not about whether they're different from your language. It's that you have no way of discovering them or guessing them.>>744591040It's clear enough>no per-topic summary that groups multiple structures. Imabi is the only resource I've seen that groups different structures by topic (e.g. 時, 際, に際して, に当たって, etc.)>expressions that you wouldn't be able to guess in a million yearsNo foreigner would ever guess お力になれず、すみません. Most people would default to simply negating the expression for help 手伝ってなくてすみません (sorry I wasn't able to help you) or something, but guess what, guess that's unnatural, if not outright wrong.
>>744603505I don't even have parents. Get on my level
>>744603696>手伝ってなくて手伝えなくて
>>744603696yeah, nigga... that's a you problemthere are many publications dedicated to just that
>>744604548>no category for continuous actionThanks for demonstrating my pointAlso, a beginner would definitely not have access to resources like that. They'd just be given a textbook like MNN that introduces topics in JLPT order (i.e. you'll learn だけでなく one year, then the other XはもちろんYも and ばかりか, then yet another year のみならず and もとより, instead of having them all in one place
>>744601728you know people that do anki, consume media also right.
>>744604943are you actually retarded or something? that's an excerpt. the whole overview section is like 12 pages long jesus christ man get a grip. better yet, buy this book and stop your whininghttps://www.amazon.co.jp/-/dp/4874249493?and before you ask, an english translated version is available
>>744605228How many people in language schools even know the 日本語文型辞典 exists? You're only proving my point furtherMeanwhile in any other language the textbook+classes is enough.And don't get me started on how no one knows how to study moonrunes. Only kanken autists know.
>>744605707How about you shut the fuck up already? Believe I'm not trying to get you started to on anything. I would really prefer if you'd be quiet
>>744579690I am on the brighter side
>>744605820Read the thread. It was on why jap is so difficult compared to other languages.Most people in the world (i.e. not terminally online autists in a malaysian basketweaving community) rely on textbooks like MNN, Marugoto, etc. Or worse, outright scams like Duoshtigo
>>744603696>お力になれずInteresting I don't think I've seen this one before but the meaning is clear enough with sufficient exposure to the language. But yeah that's one of the issues of studying an unrelated language, you don't even know to say something before you actually encounter it. It's not something like s'il vous plaît which is ridiculously obvious is if you speak English.
>>744606108based
>>744606116Well if it really bothers you so much that it has you going off on a tirade at random, why don't you come up with a better solution?
>>744579690Thanks to AI, this meme is obsolete nowadays
Now before the thread dies have you guys any media that you've really liked and want to recommend? I recently read this and it was the best jp book I've read so far (I've read only like eight however) and truly recommend it. Other one I really liked was コンビニ人間
>>744600205I "write" every kanji i read with anything that resembles a pen on some flat surface during learning session
>>744606108wa
>>744601728>immersiongood luck thinking of ways to use stuff like ~てからというもの, ともあろうもの, and につけ~につけ
>>744606945i can speak to you in japanese right now if you want. do you want me to? i haven't been immersing as much lately though so i might not sound as good
>>744579690I'm too employed to learn a third language in a reasonable amount of time
>>744607245yeah, i feel you. all this work is keeping me from earning money
>>744597401When did I post this?
>>744598190>as long as you get enough sleepIt's over.
>>744607718It's fine. I'm sure you could squeeze one or two hours of extra sleep from somewhere.
>>744607942Yeah, from the time I would use to study JP haha...I could probably manage if I only worked 40 hrs/week like most people, but I have no such luck.
>>744579690>Japanese is an awful language>I hate localization trash, but it’s not worth engaging with it
>>744607067No thanks. I just came to make my point that just reading books and listening all day will leave you stunted.
>>744609212elite ball knowledge. you don't have it
Does anyone have any experience using Manatan?
Don't worry guys in a few yesrs AI translations will be perfect
>>744610115Hello sir this is true by the decree of vishnu good sir. We will be rewarded and redeemed
>>744606471I will always recommend Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann. I love the title cards.
i still cant read for shit but now just listen to jp asmrs listening is way easier than reading for some reason also reading was boring as fuck anyways
They always tell you not to bother with writing, but in my years of study, writing was the most enjoyable part. The worst epiphany I had was that I don't like reading. I don't know why I thought I'd like reading in another language. Part of me wishes I didn't give up, but if you have nothing to apply the knowledge to, it's a complete waste.
>>744610614interesting i feel the exact opposite reading is way easier for me than listening
>>744611279yeah same. It's way easier to remember/guess the meaning when you have kanji to make the connections
>learn Japanese to play monster hunter without having to wait a year for the G version to get translated >they ruin the series and stop releasing them jp only >don't care about super robot wars enough to continue learning a shitty language 俺のチンポは太いです
>>744611346yeah that and there's way less ambiguity and reliance on context
>>744611403>they ruin the seriesAre you talking about Wilds or are you one of those Monhun died with World faggots?
>>744611147
>>744611489It died with MHX actually. Styles and transmog killed the game, total fashionhunter troon death
>>744611403ちゃうか
>>744611589kek I'll drink to that
>>744611346聴覚型あれば視覚型ある
>>744579690translations are better than any of you retards can muster. especially with ai. fuck off
>>744586910>latinquid liberas carminaque legens es? gaudium et utilis est? quando discere coepistī?
>>744603696I don't find that abnormal. I'm an ESL and it took me a long time to understand what "I wouldn't put it past him" meant. I could've looked it up at one point but I still remember it hindering my comprehension.It happens with every language honestly.
>>744579690Already am. Too many trash localizations.
I will never understand spoken Japanese
>>744613728>I wouldn't put it past him「あいつ、人殺しをやりかねない」
>>744614107that's not true. your brain will adjust eventually but it might take a long time. there will always be instances where homophones will give you trouble though. way too many words just sound alike
>>744579690Another djt dekinai thread
>>744580167>>744583445There's a guy in my circle that has been shilling this nonstop Good thing I hate yurislop
>>744579690I've finished my first deck and Tae Kim but i now have no idea what do to and stuck in an anki loop. Please anons help me what should i do now
>>744614107It ends up clicking. Just pause if you have to.Knowing the words (mainly content words) people use is like 50% of the problem. Another chunk is your brain anticipating boilerplate, like くださいませんでしょうか or ~て行きたいと思います.The rest is knowing getting used to what words sound like, especially when words are slurred, whispered, or spoken hurriedly. Say, これは大番狂わせだ! shouted in excitement
>>744616169>pray gaymu>watch animu>read mango or books (e.g. a 短編集)>grind JLPT grammar points. do the exercises>jlpt reading textbooks like shin kanzen master>jlpt mock examsPick something
>>744579690もうとっくにやったよ:)
>>744616950I love dekinai-chan. Her attempts to mock and denigrate learners will forever live rent-free in every Japanese learner's mind
>>744616950This is literally me
さわちゃんが音大を受ける子の特訓してたんだってーHow do you deal with the hidden をs? I thought the の is supposed to be を but apparently its casually omitted between 特訓して.
>>744619865>the の is supposed to be をWhy? She's doing the 特訓, not 特訓'ing. の is needed in this case because you have 2 nouns (e.g. 子供の世話をする). What comes before の tells you what kind of 特訓 it is (音大を受ける子の特訓)>How do you deal with the hidden をs?の tells you 特訓 is acting as a noun (名詞), so a を has to be there for する to work. You can't say stuff like 動き方の[観察する; verb]. It has to be ~の[観察; noun](を)するJust like you write 英語の勉強をする and 英語を勉強する.
One thing I will never understand is pitch accent. If you get to know Japanese people they will repeat shit back at you the way you said it either as a tease or because they think saying the way you did will make you understand, even though I try to speak as flat as possible, there are dialects that don't give a shit about pitch
If you like horror as I do:>>744606471>Games夕闇通り探検隊>TV shows岸辺露伴は動かない (実写化)>Animeハイスクールミステリー学園七不思議>Movies真・事故物件禍々女>Books近畿地方のある場所についてI know it's trendy right now, but I liked it.>MangaメガロザリアThis one is slept on and it's really good.It's like medieval Death Note if Light had Sheer Heart Attack from Jojo instead of the Death Note and was also a moron (girl).
日本語できない
>>744621041>It's like medieval Death Note if Light had Sheer Heart Attack from Jojo instead of the Death Note and was also a moron (girl).NTA but picked up. Thanks for the rec.
>>744599337Cute paste, too lazy to join friend groups.
I was told that getting a Japanese girlfriend would accelerate my Japanese and I ended up being used for english lessons. wtf?
>>744620534>英語の勉強をするi hate this it sounds like "it is the studying of english i do" who tf talks like that
>>744595950it's TMA, a JAV company known for doing parodies.
I don't understand Japanese people's obsession with Disney. Okay they made good stuff 50 years ago but they're a slop factory now.
>>744621985People do後片付けをする, not 後片づけるFurthermore, the sentence you pasted can't be transformed into 音大を受ける子特訓する. It's ungrammatical.
if you need some motivation
>>744626894Just don't get sick bro
