I have two points.1). Traditional leveling is garbage. You can't expect a large percentage of people to stick around for dozens to hundreds of hours of questing and mob grinding. Historically, WoW has lost 70% of trial players by level 10 (WotLK). And Classic apparently got sub-1M 60s in 6 years (Icy Veins). If you combine the numbers, 3% of people make it to max, not counting the repetitive, linear treadmill that is endgame.2). Tab target is just action combat with a global cooldown and auto-attack. I like action combat like New World, but you can absolutely innovate tab target (namely, dodges / good mobility, parries, and ripostes) and have a good game, probably preferably if we're going to phase out tab target eventually, if action combat is objectively superior.
Here's that Icy Veins article.https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/news/what-if-wow-quietly-revealed-a-9-million-subscriber-number/
I guess Blizzard just looks at the leveling situation and thinks, "What would people even do without it? The economy barely matters because repairs just cost gold instead of materials."
Tab target is objectively superior to all the alternatives that exist for this gameplay. Anything else turns it into a clownshow.
>>744614904New World did 5 man dungeons really well.
>>744612932We need to remove leveling and questing and be able to just queue mythic+ and raids from the main lobby of the expansion.
>>744617383It's a lot deeper than that. Make repairs cost materials, make gear with really fun affixes and abilities for the open world, and give some meaning to the world like zone control, and watch players gather and fight for wealth and power. The end game is a living world.
>>744612932>Traditional leveling is garbageno traditional leveling IS the game. the focus on endgame is what's garbage and what killed the genre because the leveling became nothing more than a way to pad out your sub time.
>>744619256How do you argue the garbage metrics?Can you not understand the motivational pull of having your full kit and being able to play with anybody however you want?
>>744621219casuals/normies/lazy retards getting filtered is a good thing, MMOs shouldn't be an accessible slop genre, it should be a way for antisocial nerds to socialize. normies can stay in discord and fortnite where they belong.
>>744614904I think the primary thing people forget why tab target works in both wow and xiv is because its less intense when you're running content half-asleep for the 500th time, all you have to do is press buttons in a sequence for most pve content. Needing to time parries or aim your crosshair or whatever would be exhausting on the long term
>>744612932>Traditional leveling is garbageWrong>Tab target is just action combat with a global cooldown and auto-attackAlso wrongThe focus on endgame and "the game starts at max level" mentality is what kills engagement, because nothing is more repetitive than running the same dungeons/raids/etc. every week for a sliver of progress. Leveling is important to build investment in the game and your character, which ultimately drives player engagement. The problem is that the amount of time required for leveling tends to be excessive, which means that working adults will struggle to reach endgame in a timely fashion, but if you make the leveling process enjoyable (eg by having interesting location and quest variety), this won't matter.As for tab target combat, it is absolutely not "action combat" in any meaningful way whatsoever. The reason why tab target combat exists is to deal with server lag/delay. If you run a zero trust server (which you should for game security/integrity) you will always run the risk of massive desync in a situation with real time "action" combat. Tab target mitigates this because the server can more reliably track the player's actions since all abilities are "spells" with clear targets.>but what about muh endgame tho?Actually kill yourself.
Action combat w/ Dodge rolls is such a shit style of game.Tab target will always be superior due to latency existing.
>>744621334I haven't ever met weird people on WoW doing Skype calls for competitive content. Like 95% of people are normal if you just give them the chance.
>>744621378People play Fortnite all day, every day.
>>744621772>because nothing is more repetitive than running the same dungeons/raids/etc. every week for a sliver of progressThat's not a living world.>Leveling is important to build investment in the game and your character, which ultimately drives player engagement. Obviously not very well. "Just read quest text for dozens to hundreds of hours" sounds like a joke.>but if you make the leveling process enjoyable (eg by having interesting location and quest variety), this won't matterWhat's an example of better quests? The world doesn't change.>Tab target mitigates this because the server can more reliably track the player's actions since all abilities are "spells" with clear targets.New World and Planetside 2 did just fine with lots of action data.
>>744622667Planetside 2 does projectile calculations at 30-60hz.
There's a reason why most wow classic players will prefer to dungeon spam over "questing". Or will just buy boosts to skip it entirely
>>744621772>but if you make the leveling process enjoyable (eg by having interesting location and quest variety),Unironically, despite having some of the worst levelling grid in gaming history, some old Korean Mmo managed to do that by spreading the important upgrades/enhancement/gear across all levels not just on end game monster. Powerful Cards in ragnarok, weapons and armor in Flyff for example are "farmable" by levelling players. So these players feel like they are part of the end game economy unlike wow where everything is too focused in end game. Focusing everything on end game pressures the player to quickly level up because if they don't, "they are not playing the game"
>>744612932Arenanet's data gathering bot is back. Kys. Guild Wars 3 will never ever be an RPG. You people at arenanet are fucking clueless like the kid who overthinks the answer and comes up with some solution 180 degrees wrong that's somehow worse than the kid that didn't think about it at all.
dead genrespam thread
>>744624968>Focusing everything on end game pressures the player to quickly level up because if they don't, "they are not playing the game"Classic does a good job of spreading out upgrades over levels, and it still tanked. People don't want to level. They rush endgame because that's where the people are.
>>744612932>You can't expect a large percentage of people to stick around for dozens to hundreds of hours of questing and mob grinding.OSRS is one of the most popular games in the genre.
>>744612932are you still into the nutriments thing or do you only care about mmos now?
