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>>744727601

>>744727601
This hopeless rivalry is confounding to me

>>744727883
It's funny

>>744727883
funni

>>744727883
I have zero idea about it and don't care and still know it's going to be a group of mentally ill people because doing it for free turns people into sociopaths with a sense of megaloma WAIT JANNIES WAIT SORRY FUCK I DIDN'T MEAN YOU GUYS.

I remember running MWSE in like 2012 and I had 15 fps
now I run ultra modded OpenMW and also have 15 fps
some things never change, though at least openmw is less jank

>>744728332
CPU bottleneck moment

>>744728371
could be, I run render distance on 10 cells and probably it's draw calls? idk actually

You could have a CPU from 2050 and get 15 fps, it's an engine limitation.
Now why it also happens on openmw, that's a question for the dorks running that.

>>744728413
morrowind is an old game and wants single core performance

no mods fix this, many exacerbate it, and since modern games take advantage of multi-threading when possible there are very few CPUs on the market that have a huge focus on single core performance

Im playing OpenMW on linux and has some bizarre interactions. Of course i decided to test performance. thing is i have a 50/50 chance whenever i open the game of having 90fps or 1.6 fps, and i dont understand why.

>>744728685
Wasn't OpenMW supposed to fix that shit as it is a modern engine?

>>744729019
This is sually caused by huge mods that create millions of new ID records for NPCs and effects, and highly detailed modded settlements/cities. It's a mixture of save bloat, poorly optimized textures and wasted CPU cycles on background checks.

The most stable performance you can get is with OpenMW + Patch for Purists + Morrowind Optimization Patch + Project Atlas. Keep in mind that even this setup can be wrecked by heavily scripted mods and several places from the TR landmasses.

Also, since you're on Linux you should know that X11 has better performance than Wayland compositors. Make a simple shell script to nuke your compositor when the game launches on X, or try Gamescope on WL.

>>744729556
It's completely fixed on OpenMW. Core affinity isn't an issue there.

>>744729724
>Keep in mind that even this setup can be wrecked by heavily scripted mods and several places from the TR landmasses.
A massive understatement. Just got a brand new computer earlier this year and even then I actively choose to avoid like most major TR cities because the performance is so awful. What the fuck are these modders thinking?

>>744729773
>>744729556
OpenMW is bottlenecked by its scene graph btw. I'd use Claude to fix it and write a new renderer but I don't care enough about Morrowind, so

>>744729556
>>744729773
doesn't matter how many cores you have, you need a fat fuck future CPU that can do terrahurtz or some shit

>>744730119
>I'd use Claude to fix it
do the needful saar

>>744730180
You know what. Fine, I'll do it.

I'll take a break from my game engine and make an OpenMW fork. Be on the lookout for "OpenSkooma" - that will be my fork.

>>744729724
ok I just tried X11 and it was mostly the same. 6fps until i alt tab, the moment i alt tabbed to see the thread and came back the game instantly shot up to 68 fps. I dont get it.

>>744730123
No, this isn't true unless you're playing Tamriel Rebuilt content on MWSE running Bethesda engine. OpenMW only uses Morrowind data files as a source but it is not running NetImmerse / Gamebryo at all. It's built with multi-threading in mind and is much more robust when it comes to scripting. I'd actually challenge you to make it perform poorly or crash in the main game. It can even handle TR without crashing but performance can tank in Narsis, Anvil, etc. (which isn't OpenMW's fault at all).

>>744727601
wtf is mwse

>>744730119
On Claude frfr this patch gonna be bussin

>>744729950
>What the fuck are these modders thinking?
Probably something like
>"by the time the project is done the average household machine will be able to run TR at smooth and cinematic 24 fps"

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>>744727601
I don't understand why this shit flinging between MWSE and OpenMW exists. Both are fine versions of Morrowind, and we all love Morrowind at the end of the day. So no more brother wars.

>>744730293
You’re also doing a game engine using Claude? I’m making my wet dream of a game engine. If I weren’t employed and didn’t have a wife it would take me 40 years of my life to do what now takes me a weekend to make massive strides in. The absolute GOAT.

I’m doing a giant procedural sandbox engine that uses half life style .wads for textures and brush-based pseudo .bsps for the maps. I don’t wanna say more because of how easy it is to replicate an idea kek

>>744732190
Becuase OpenMW still lacks good alternatives to some MWSE mods and OpenMW trannies throw a fit when you bring it up. It's like reminding them that they're male.

>>744732190
slavs

>>744732395
What really sucks is that all it takes is to implement the same basic API calls or at least make a wrapper. Honestly someone could probably do it themselves, OpenMW and MWSE troons be damned straight to the darkest depths of oblivion

>>744727883
It's a (potential) OpenMW dev trying to shit on MWSE at all times out of autism/spite. You see him around a lot.
Honestly, it doesn't matter what you use it's Morrowind all the same but it does leave a bad taste in my mouth to see it.

>>744732190
Yeah, the only difference is that MWSE has unfixable actor script errors, occasional CTDs due to save bloat over time and actions performed on the world (objects left on the ground, NPCs commanded or looted, etc.), wobbly physics when the player moves too far away from the center of the map (Vvardenfell), locked single-core CPU performance and a 3.5GB ram usage limit (modded games will go over this and crash). Other than that it really is the same as OpenMW!

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I don't get OpenMW. I still only get 30 fps in big cities, so I'd rather play on MWSE which looks better.

>>744732745
Works on my machine.

>>744732745
Then why don't I experience these issues when playing on MWSE, OpenMW dev?

>>744732745
No one working on OpenMW thinks of it as a replacement, so they'd be deeply disappointed in you for acting like this.

I think it's some autist (or autists) who have decided that everyone MUST play their version of the game (OpenMW) and likes to throw a fit if you aren't. It's the most rational explanation for 4chan. There isn't a Morrowind thread without at least one post trying to dance on mwse's grave out of nowhere and it's so bizarre it's likely some new schizo.

>>744732848
Because I asked for your game, in particular, to be stable. It's all on me :)
>>744732919
None of what I said is meant to be taken like that. I stated technical facts. You can still choose whichever version you'd like to play, Bethesda's limited and outdated tech or an ever-improving modern and lighter alternative

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>>744733092
>trying to dance on mwse's grave out of nowhere
Implying MWSE is dead in the first place.

yeah, because what I'm looking for when playing software from 2002 is a constantly in-flux inconsistent user experience.
Real pro marketers for a free project itt.

>>744733110
>None of what I said is meant to be taken like that. I stated technical facts. You can still choose whichever version you'd like to play, Bethesda's limited and outdated tech or an ever-improving modern and lighter alternative
Your posts are always smug and backhanded. I'm sure this will convert people into doing what you want. I actually think that other anon is wrong, and you're a falseflagger trying to make OpenMW look bad by association.

The fact that an entirely custom-built engine is barely better than Bethesda's make me think the complaints about Gamebryo were misplaced. It's a fine engine.

>>744733301
it is, just doesn't work for space games

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>>744733110
I told you it works on my machine. The only thing you listed that I personally experienced was the wobbly character models, and the wobble is so subtle, that I don't even notice it most of the time. I'm playing Morrowind just fine on MWSE.

>>744728332
OpenMW is clearly better but the nature of Bethesda games where a lot of things are interact-able objects didn't plan for culling at all.
There are forks working on that iirc but OpenMW + mods still have some work to do to optimize the game. Also shadows could benefit not looking like ass at some point.

>>744728332
Theres a guy slowly working on porting it from openscenegraph to vulkanacene graph. The number of drawcalls used in the engine is the primary reason for the poor performance. Moving to a more modern pipeline would allow for batching which would significantly improve performance. I honestly don't understand why this isn't a bigger priority for them.

Isn't OpenMW just an attempt at reverse engineering the game? This is like getting uppity because someone is playing Doom instead of the vastly inferior Freedoom.

>>744733301
It was perfect for Morrowind.
The problem arises when Fallout 4 has reference in the code to Bull netches.
which is a real fact btw, though I haven't been able to remember what the source of it was.

Don't care, still playing using MWSE. It works for me and as a small bonus is too hard for zoomers to install.

>>744733301
Back when Morrowind was released Gamebryo was truly impressive. It wasn't until Oblivion and Fallout 3 that it became very outdated.

>>744729950
Apparently they started designing with performance in mind only recently but I haven't played TR in a while to verify.

>>744727883
Its because open morrowind fags are by far & large the type of people that watched a YouTube video about morrowind & made it their personality so they need an enhanced version with a bunch of cheats to play it, just like mod fags but even more insufferable

>>744730119
>OpenMW is bottlenecked by its scene graph btw
Could you elaborate a bit? Sounds interesting.

>>744732694
then stop putting everything you see in your mouth, faggot
jk, no offense anon

>>744733301
>It's a fine engine.
More than fine, Gamebryo and the modern Creation Engine are both amazing. The issue with the older version is the 32-bit limitations and ancient papyrus scripting, and the issue with the newer one is Betheda sloppily adding dozens of different engines and outsourced systems on top of it, causing massive instability.

Most people who are still on vanilla Morrowind only play that way because they are afraid to let go of older tools and having to learn how manual modding works (i.e. copying a file path to a text file).

>>744727883
>MWSE players
Usually the older guys who still play the game, they don't use hundreds of mods at once so they see no issues. It's a bit clunky but it does the job
>OpenMW players
Gen Z guys who recently got into the game and being Gen Z have to turn everything into some competition so they have someone to "dunk" on. They're obnoxious but in all fairness this version can run the hundreds of mods they're all compelled to use so it is a good choice for them.

>>744733361
yeah I'm using fork with occlusion culling or whatever, pretty neat

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>>744727601
If I could play vanilla Morrowind as it is, I would.
But I literally cannot. Everything works perfectly fine emulated through WINE, except for the minor issue of the cursor being treated as relative coordinates, not absolute. So every time I move my mouse it changes the acceleration in a direction instead of merely moving the cursor. It's literally Morrowind on ice. If I somehow manage to get through the menu and into the game, it becomes a non-stop game of spinning. I tried so hard to make it work, but had to use OpenMW in the end.

>>744732395
>OpenMW still lacks good alternatives to some MWSE mods
tell me some of these mods that don't work because I don't mod my games much and I never came across one, Im curious to see in what category they fall under. Like visual improvements or autistic "I hate the game so I made it into that other game with a morrowind skin" mods?
>>744734024
maybe try lutris? I installed Rayman 2 on fedora and I was surprisingly playing the game within a couple minutes while other people said its unplayable on windows in 2026

Playing around with command humanoid and moving NPCs around makes me realize how carefully designed all the cities are. Too many NPCs in one area tank performance. All vanilla cities are specifically designed to spread them out. The devs put much more thought into it than the Tamriel Rebuilt guys.

>>744734024
Have you tried running it with gamescope?

>>744733346
The longer you play the worse it gets. Vanilla can't handle big save files without constant crashes. Doing every faction quest line and TR content on Vanilla/MWSE is impossible without severe stability issues. If you're fine with degraded performance over time keep it up. It's not a matter of "my taste vs your taste", It's an objective fact. You're free to experience the game however you like...

>>744734153
I tried it through Lutris, with all manner of options and toggles and WINE versions. I tried it through system WINE. I tried it through Proton. All of it was Dunmer Skating.

>>744734303
Kill yourself waytroon.

Eventually people looking for the vanilla Morrowind experience will be emulating windows XP era PCs.
It's already happened with tons of win98 games.

>>744734257
well every TES had to be like that, skyrim and probably oblivion as well has a limit how many npcs engine can handle in same place, otherwise their AI shuts off
in morrowind it's easy as npcs just stand in one place forever

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>>744734319
Works on my machine. I can count the number of times the game crashed on me on one hand. Maybe don't play Morrowind on a potato jerry-rigged to a computer monitor.

>>744727883
It's a joke, s'wit

>>744734319
>Doing every faction quest line and TR content

is silly and not something one ought to be doing

>>744734319
I played a 200 hour save last year on MWSE and suffered no such problems. It crashed once in the middle of nowhere (for some reason) maybe one time, but otherwise it was fine. Why are you making up shit and trying to sound like you know what you're talking about?

So uh...which side am I supposed to join? The TR Fanfictors or the Anti-TR MWSE Chuds?

>>744734626
but my autism...

>>744734652
Those are orthogonal positions, silly.

>>744732190
Red vs blue, dem vs rep, Sony vs Xbox, Microsoft vs Apple, Coke vs Pepsi.

This shit has been going on forever. You have to have an IQ above 100 to break out of the consumerism matrix.

>>744734652
How about joining no side and just enjoy the game?

>>744734464
I don't remember the game crashing when MGSO was a thing, I must've played this modpack back in 2012-2014 for way too many hours and it never crashed.

I've only made Morrowind crash when manually installing a fuckton of mods and fucking it up because some times you cant make sense of what you download and many mods have a million choices to make and even require configuring other files before just putting meshes in meshes and .esm files in data files for example. Often mod authors assume you know what the fuck their monstrosity is and how it works.

For the past decade I've been playing with 7-15 mods or something like that and all are very simple and retard proof, haven't had any crashes during that time.

>>744734785
>enjoy the game
You're in a morrowind thread dude

Morrowind released in 2002, and Deus Ex in 2000. The Unreal engine fork Deus Ex used was so slapdash that headshot hitboxes weren't consistent because they depended on compass direction. Morrowind's engine is amazing for 2002.

>>744734967
Yeah, but by the time Oblivion came out it was already way outdated.

>>744734824
In the hundreds of hours I've played Morrowind, it only crashed on me three times and those crashes were quite far between each other. I don't know what that other anon is going on about the game becoming super unstable with long playtimes. I swear it's just zoomers not knowing how to use a fucking computer and fucking up their install somehow.

>>744735049
No it wasn't. When it came out Oblivion had cutting-edge graphics. Name another game at the time that had similar features to Oblivion.

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>>744733602
OpenMW stores the world as a huge tree of little objects, then walks that tree every frame to update, cull and draw everything. Lots of pointer chasing, awkward batching, awkward threading, and OSG types have leaked into animation, terrain, scripting and the editor.

So every modern feature ends up fighting the scene graph first. Better to flatten render data into arrays and let Vulkan chew through it directly.

I'm at home on my lunch break rn, I got Claude Fable cooking up a plan for it.

Pic related. It's more about object oriented programming vs data oriented design, but the same general concept applies to why you wouldn't walk through a scene graph on a single thread to send render commands to the API. I don't feel like giving a computer science lecture on /v/ on my lunch break.

>>744735246
are you that guy who is trying to port skyrim animations and can't shut up about using ai?

>>744735120
Oblivion came out the same year as the first Assassin's Creed and Stalker. Oblivion was ridiculously ugly for its time, and it wasn't because of the technology but because of the art style.

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There's no need to fight anymore. AI has settled the debate

>>744734652
TRfags are more often than not on the MWSE side of things in virtue of the fact MWSE allows them to add entirely new spell effects while OpenMW didn't for a long and TR generally has little to do with the OpenMW x MWSE meme rivalry

So in short, you're not supposed to join any side until you've lurked for long enough to even know the basics of what's going on

>>744735350
>Stalker
Good example of an engine held together with duct tape.

>>744735460
The difference is that it began development back in 2001 and was created by a bunch of noname slavs. And it still looks better than Oblivion.

>>744735343
No.

I might expand the engine's compatibility coverage in my fork though, idk.
I'd want to make changes to the data model first. I wouldn't go full ECS since that's a hell of a migration, but I do want to establish Actor/Component patterns and then move towards data-driven design.

Then, ESM files from separate games would serve mostly as authorship data instead of being 1:1 to how the engine works, and we'd have several adapters bringing them all into one runtime. Would require additional migrations upon the first startup but I think it's worth it for extra modability and game coverage.

>>744735246
Ok I can kind of see the CPU bottleneck if it has to chase around all those attributes between objects/spheres. I don't know enough about anything to judge if the second Data oriented design is strictly better or if it makes any sacrifices. Thanks for explaining a bit anon.

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>>744730119
why hasn't AI fix this shit yet? I'm hopeful it will and really open up openMW possibilities.

Probably sooner than later hopefully. OpenMW, get on it you retarded faggots. AI can solve this shit

>>744738147
Working on it rn dont worry.

Roadmap
>remove OSG
>use Vulkan as a render backend, with data oriented design to render objects contiguously
>adopt Actor/Component pattern
>decouple gameplay logic from executable, using WASM for gameplay modules
>unified runtime for Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, and hopefully New Vegas
I don't care about Fallout 3, 4, or Starfield. You fags can ask your own Claude to add adapters for those.

>>744734652
neither side is anti-TR. the only role TR plays in the MWSE vs opemmw feud is both sides competing over which is better at running it.

I installed OpenMW once, following installation instructions to the letter. It immediately crashed the game the second I got out of the Census Office.

Great "enhanced" engine you got there.

>>744741772
Win11?

Ah yes, anti-openMW shizo thread

>>744742109
Don't mind him, he hasn't figured out how to open a file manager yet.

>>744734024
Sounds like an X11 problem. Have you tried using a modern display protocol?

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>>744733741
This board is so fucking autistic these days that it can't go one thread without some retarded inane faggot making something a generation thing.
Just shut it down Hiro. Just shut it the fuck down. Sell it to Facebook if this is what the average user babbles about nowadays.

>itt AI enabled first semester comp-sci students trying to explain something they don't understand
This shit is gold.

>>744742514
>OPENMW IS BEAUTIFULLY OPTIMIZED SAAAR
>NO NEED TO MOVE AWAY FROM OPENJEETGRAPH

After running Claude for 3 days and 3 nights, I discovered the concept of "array". Haha got owned openmw team, I will now make the rendering a gorillion times faster, just give me a month until my tokens refresh.

>>744735246
you are aware that openmw runs on shitty phones and chinese handhelds right

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>>744742380
Another user giving up on the site. Nice work, team!

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>>744732190
You would think there'd be a collaboration to import MWSE functions into OpenMW, to get the best of both worlds by now. Instead we get this.

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>>744743724
People just can't help but to act like faggots over the most petty shit ever. It's a tale as old as time itself.

>>744743724
Isn't their lua implementation completely different or something?
Then again if Skyrim's community got ENB presets to be loaded by Community Shaders there's no telling

>>744742109
>The thread was made by someone shitting on mwse
>But this means it's an anti openmw thread
What logic is this?

>>744730293
Godspeed, anon

>>744743030
kek

>>744743096
Yes I am aware. However even on my RTX 4060, running the graphical settings any higher than vanilla Morrowind causes my FPS to dip into the 40s and profiling reveals that this is CPU bound. This isn't particularly fringe or controversial, it's a well known limitation that OpenMW has been incrementally optimizing around as far back as 2017 with their own OSG fork.
>>744742514
>>744743030
>>744744038
All me btw

>>744744203
>running the graphical settings any higher than vanilla Morrowind causes my FPS to dip into the 40s
Tamriel Rebuilt issue.

I recommend the Oblivion Remaster Like Leveling mod. It allows you to play without always thinking about minmaxing levels.

>>744744365
trainwiz was posting some sort of experimental MWSE thing that makes the meshes batched or something, whatever happened to that?

>>744743724
The OpenMW devs outrightly rejected adding MWSE compatibility to the engine. They consider it a security risk.

>>744744656
No idea if it will ever come out. The vanilla engine can't handle the absurdity that TR is throwing at it. It simply will never be able to allocate more threads or CPU resources to intensive tasks.

>>744744656
It's out but IIRC it's not a huge difference, like 5-10 FPS.

>>744727883
several OMW devs are trannies who are obsessed with killing MWSE but cant do anything since some of the old devs that are doing MWSE have roots so deep that they can never win so they resort to discord raids on 4chan in order to raise awareness/optics hoping some random streamer scum picks it up and creates enough drama to cancel MWSE for idk textual rape or something

>>744742342
kill yourself immediately, tranny

>>744745635
They're in this thread right now trying to stop people from forking the engine.