Probably the best game ever made.
>>745033096Every single one of those acclaimed PS1 era JRPGs are such let downs. They look so cheap except for FFVIII.
I would really appreciate it if people went more into detail when discussing it. Takahashi is like Mary Shelley, one masterpiece, followed by nice works that just don't match the original
>disk 1 >game>disk 2>VN
>>745033096The game's not even complete, did you even make it to disc 2. It's a good game, but you should probably play more games.
>Probably the best game ever made.It's not even the best PS1 JRPG released in 1998.
>>745033486>>745033497When the story is at the level of Dostoevsky, I think many people don't care about Disc 2, also because they couldn't have done it any differently, Square was already drinking the poison of TSW
>>745033797>at the level of DostoevskyMaybe try reading Dostoevsky before you claim such ridiculous nonsense.
>>745034008I did it, The Brothers Karamazov. Xenogears is the only video game I know that is radically polyphonic.
>>745033096If you have brain damage, sure, whatever.
>>745034165>Vast majority of the medium is gameplay first. >Yeah that's right, you asshole who appreciates one of the four games that does the opposite, you're wrong.
>>745034320Plenty of games put the story before the gameplay. Dear Esther, Gone Homo, Her Story, Disco Elysium...And playing a game with bad gameplay is like watching a movie with bad cinematography or reading a novel with bad prose. If it fails at its most basic task, then it's a shit game, no matter how admirable the other parts are (not that Xenogears is particularly good in that regard either, its writing is dogshit)
>>745034097Suikoden 2? Final Fantasy Tactics?
>>745034538I haven't played them, but polyphony isn't just characters with different perspectives (that's just dialectics, which is pretty much given in storytelling), it's the fact that the author doesn't take a stance or force a final synthesis/resolution. If you can boil the work down to a single message, it's likely monologic. That isn't necessarily a flaw (even Tolstoy is monologic), but polyphony is an extremely rare literary structure, and Xenogears creates an encyclopedic total work alongside polyphony.>>745034530>, its writing is dogshit)Good argument
>>745033096The shitty unfinished Disk 2 exists
>>745035024Ah ok, by that definition, no those two don't qualify.Can't suddenly recall a game that would qualifyTactics Ogre has a clear anti-war message. Disco Elysium despite trying to give the various poltiical stances their fair share of content, it's not equal and the authors' beliefs are clear to see.Planescape Torment and games of similar nature all end up with a central narrative and a conclusion with a clear message.
>>745036351Personally, I think it's something worth noting, because not even Takahashi himself ever did it again. That's because Krelian is a flesh and blood consciousness embodying a philosophical thesis that remains unrefuted by either plot or Fei, so the work can't be reduced to simple existentialism. Meanwhile, the main antagonist in Xenosaga is an abstract personification that gets overcome. They might seem similar, but in Xenogears existentialism is just one of the theses, whereas in Xenosaga it's the only one validated by the work itself.
Okay, what am I in for?
>>745037176Are you seriously going to play the game like that?
>>745037176>posted from my iPhone
>>745033096most unrealized potential maybe
psx JRPGs are only good if you don't have anything better to play or do
>>745033096What's the best translation of this? I remember there being a retranslation of the JP game that was supposedly much better.
>>745038143Iirc the Perfect works mod is the only retranslation
Xenogears a shit
It's hardly even a (finished) game
>>745040090Nah
>uncslop
>>745040310Yes?Xenogears' combat is a dreadful affair, legitimately more rudimentary than NES games, it's all about spamming your strongest deathblow and healing when your HP is low, Gear combat adds fuel "management" which doesn't matter because you can regen fuel during fights.Character building...is not there, there's just none, characters grow linearly and gear equipment scales linearly as well with the most audacious mechanic in there is parts that buff elemental resistance of give you better healing.Game progression is overwhelmingly linear as well, no exploration to speak of because it's a moviegame that wants to torment you with hours of poorly written cutscenes and various references to 80's/early 90's /m/ stuff, all of which are tiresome and in poor taste as the game has nothing of substance beyond those.The game also has no choices to speak of or any interaction with its world, despite being supposedly an RPG, all of this compounds in a severe lack of depth and replay value, and to make this worse it's also woefully unfinished and disc 2 is a rushed mess and probably the single most embarrassing thing Square put out in the 90s.There's nothing of value in this "game" outside of some admittedly good mech design.
>>745040713You might have actually said something agreeable or defensible if you hadn't just dismissed the story/writing with lazy hand waving and reductionism
I'd slot it in somewhere around 2-4, #1 is CT.
It's a steaming pile of shit
>>745033395Like "Kojima's" games, Xenogears had an outside hand guiding it along that left afterward. Someone with a lot of knowledge and interest in esoteric Jewish lore and inner workings of groups you only imagine exist.
>raging discordtroon getting no (You)s spamming the thread, posts almost exactly 60 seconds apartwhat is it about the xeno metaseries that completely mindbroke these people
>>745041060There's nothing of value in Xenogears' writing, it's surface level suffering porn that throws around big words and references to psychoanalysis, hebrew mysticism and gnosticism without actually engaging with the sources it references, it's the Anno special of namedropping shit because it sounds cool and deep.Case in point cities like Shevat or Nisan following a hebrew theme for the months of the year, is there some sort of deeper meaning to this? No, it's just there because it sounds cool.Bart's ship and omnigear follow a norse mythology nomenclature with no actual logic or reason behind the names themselves, what connection does Andvari has to its name? None, it certainly doesn't reference the mythological figure beyond the name itself, it doesn't have anything to do with dwarves either since it's a fucking red demon with a commander horn.The characters are no better either, especially when anyone beyond the cast that is introduced in the first 4 hours of the game even matters, in fact most of them stop existing after their minuscule characters arcs, doesn't help that Takahashi further dilutes some of them like Maria (which only exists to be part of more tired /m/ references as a genderbent Daisaku Kusama) being constantly reused in the following Xeno games, see Mai Magus in Xenosaga, or Rico which is the most offensive case of "write and forget" in the cast especially because he's also complete garbage gameplay wise.And what about the "themes"?Midwit, surface level platitudes about christian gnosticism and the dilemma of faith that doesn't lead anywhere, and some surface level psychoanalysis namedropping that somehow doesn't even get schizophrenia right and has more surface level platitudes about Jung's already questionable theories.All of which is, again, further marred by the fact that the game is blatantly unfinished and rushed to hell in Disc 2, so no, I'm not dismissing anything, Takahashi and Soraya are just horrible writers.
>>745041916Oh I see, this nigger got btfo in some evangelion thread and now he's raging at XGMakes sense
>>745033096Its just a turn based jrpg with mechas that follow kung fu moves and you fight Le God at the end
>>745042123>Its just a turn based jrpg with mechas that follow kung fu moves and you fight Le God at the end
>>745042032So you have zero arguments and can only resort to imaginary scenarios in your head to handwave criticism, like you falsely accused me of doing?Yeah, definitely a xenogear fan, just as mentally underdeveloped and stunted as your little moviegame.
>>745033096Man I want to like this game but the cutscenes are too wordy. Fights are too easy. Mechs are too slow.
>>745042259What kind of person bases their personality around hating a game that was made before they were born so intensely that they seek out any and all discussion of said game with the sole purpose of disrupting and interrupting those who gathered to discuss it?
>>745041916Again, reductionism. Double check what Kadmoni, Raziel, Merkavah, Path of Sephirot, Persona, Anima, Animus, etc. are. And you'll see that, unlike Anno, the corresponding concepts in the work maintain the exact same function they have in the original myth, but translated into hardware. It's called the secularization of myth: the functionality remains the same, but it shifts from the sacred/abstract plane to the concrete one. It's a narrative technique called reification, also used by a certain Dante. And you might ask, what's the purpose? The religious side serves to demystify the sacred, to strip the myth of its sanctity (yet despite this, the work isn't atheistic, because God actually exists, but instead of being ontologically unattainable, it becomes a problem of physics/cognition). Meanwhile, the psychoanalytic side serves to show how humanity originates on the planet. The collective unconscious stems from Deus. The awakening of Deus is described as a process of individuation (here too, reified). This reflects the individuation experienced by Fei (which never ends, in accordance with Jung). The individual and the cosmic demiurge are bound by the same Jungian infrastructure. As for the names you mentioned, they correspond to the archetypes or themes of the characters/cities. I also recommend you read The Brothers Karamazov. That way you would see how similar Krelian is to Ivan, and Fei to Alyosha (in part), down to the weight of Fei's existentialism (which involves accepting his matricide/genocide) and Krelian's lack of refutation. It is an encyclopedic and polyphonic work, something extremely rare in any medium, almost unique.
>>745042528It's a testament to the actual power of Xenogears. It mind broke him like Lacan contacting the Wave Existence. The other half of his psyche is probably on the other side of the world seeking the meaning to life.
>>745042576>>745041916Also, Xenogears does not deal with schizophrenia, that famous line from Citan to Id is a translation error, in Japanese, it refers to multiple personality disorder.
>>745033096True
>>745042576No they don't, it's just shallow namedropping that some rare times has an actual logic behind it that doesn't offer much of an insight into anything, if there's any to begin with.Trying to put this pile of crap on the same level as the Divine Comedy is ridiculous, and pretending Xenogears is somehow special for this supposed "secularization of myth" when there's countless other games that did it before and better like the entire SMT series is laughable.>yet despite this, the work isn't atheistic, because God actually existsThe work is fundamentally atheistic because religion's entire lynchpin is belief against all odds, which is invalidated in the game itself by the confirmation that what is supposedly "god" isn't a god at all but some random existence from a higher plane that is needlessly associated with some catholic imagery, an existence that itself confirms that it's not what humans make it out to be.Something Takahashi loves to use again and again in his following games with things like U-Do, which is a bog standard science fiction idea you can find in countless works before and after Xenogears, might as well say that VOTOMS deals with the "secularization of myth" and is soooo deep because "god" is a supercomputer.Same exact thing goes for the nonsense you're referring to when it comes to Deus, it's a bog standard narrative trope of old science fiction that is absolutely nothing special.There's nothing "encyclopedic" or "polyphonic" about Xenogears, and I do recommend you to take that massive stick out of your ass, read this one here book and stop being such a pretentious midwit, checking in with an actual psychiatrist would be ideal as well.
>>745043738>like the entire SMT seriesNow I know you're a retard just pulling names out of your ass. SMT does the exact opposite of secularizing the myth.
>>745043784Demons and gods in SMT are turned into literal computer programs, retard, you summon demons through a fucking handheld pc strapped to your arm, the entire collective unconscious in SMT can be controlled by a fucking Apple II strapped to your wrists with some shitty freeware coded by a more handsome version of Stephen Hawking.The original Megami Tensei novel is called DIGITAL DEVIL story even, SMT also namedrops multiple Jungian concepts exactly like Xenogears, before Xenogears.SaGa 1 and SaGa 2 do the same exact thing by having God be an actual, physical entity you meet and kill at the end of the first game, or the second game having a pantheon of gods and worlds, and the ultimate deity and protector of the multiverse being a ditzy super AI modeled after an archetypical goddess, we can go on over and over with many games, books or movies who pull the same exact twists over and over again.Maybe if you Xenotards actually read books and played games you'd realize how shallow those "games" are, but no, it's much better to wank yourself to terrible pastiches of 80's anime and overanalyze anything while projecting your own psychosis onto some mediocre work.
>>745043738If you think I'm overinterpreting, you can ask me to show where in the work what I'm talking about is actually mentioned, which is precisely what Eco suggests to avoid overinterpretation. Regarding Dante, I only said that he shares with Takahashi the technique of taking abstract concepts and translating them into something concrete. As for the religious dimension, the fact that God moves from the plane of faith to the cognitive plane didn't prevent Spinoza from being studied in the context of religion rather than as masked atheism. Furthermore, I didn't say "an AI is believed to be God." I said that this entity creates the collective unconscious itself within humanity, which ties into the game's core theme, determinism versus free will, a dilemma the game leaves unanswered.
>>745044503Not that anon but you have to be an absolute retard if you think any of the "demons" and "gods" in the SMT franchise are the actual literal demons and gods given digital form. We've been sucking humanity off for ages talking about the vastness of our brain's capacity to store data, and you think we can fit an entire god into a fucking floppy disk? Come on.
>>745033096Gameplay sucks and for that, it can't be the best game ever made. Decent story with half-assed Jewish terminology.
>>745044812>half-assed?
>>745042528>>745042576>>745042630You fuckers are a cult on par, perhaps EXCEEDING that of Warhammer. The Xenoshitter is right. You’re game is the biggest load of sci fi intellectual bullshit ever made.
>>745033096The game part was meh. But the atmosphere and story was beyond kino>>745033486Disc 2 is the best part because it's just non stop story kino
>>745044937I'm waiting for arguments
>>745037176
>>745044996A man of taste
>>745044589You're overinterpreting because you're hallucinating meaning where there is none just because SOME namedropping has SOME ground to stand on.Like you're doing again here:>the fact that God moves from the plane of faith to the cognitive planeIt doesn't, the wave existence plainly states it's not a god, it's just some being outside of human comprehension that got trapped in a pile and turned into a battery, and then given some christian imagery to push some half-assed symbolism that makes very little sense, nothing of which has to do with Spinoza's idea of god being some abstract, mathematical universal order rather than some alien being from another plane of existence, or in Deus' case a biological superweapon.>I said that this entity creates the collective unconscious itself within humanityWhat collective unconscious?>which ties into the game's core theme, determinism versus free will, a dilemma the game leaves unanswered.Largely because it doesn't explore it at all, it's just some basic bitch sob story about Krelian getting cucked out of his waifu and "Abel" reincarnating over and over for the sake of another sob story, while developing psychosis over very poor and inconsistent writing.The game doesn't give you an answer because the question isn't even asked in the first place.Deus being the originator of the life on the planet and giving every human a biological killswitch to turn them into biomass VS the Wave Existence being just some vaguely benevolent thing turned into a battery for the aforementioned bioweapon doesn't lead to any significant elaboration on the supposed "determinism VS free will" question largely because THE PLAYER HAS NO FUCKING AGENCY TO AFFIRM ANY POSITION IN THE FIRST PLACE, it's just surface level wanking about babby's first sci-fi scenario that has been a thing since the late 60s at the very least.There is no answer to give beacuse there's nothing of substance to discuss and not even the choice at a design level.
Nobody says Crono Cross is deep because FATE is a computer. Xenofags are just impressed by jewish terms because they are Amerifats
Kino
>>745045625Actually a lot of gamefaqs posters back in the day had heavy interpretations and discussions about the DEEPness of Chrono Cross
>>745045534>It doesn't, the wave existence plainly states it's not a god, it's just some being outside of humanVoice:God... some would refer to me as that. From a certain point of view, itis right to viewme as such. But at the same time, I am not. I... am also a part of you.>What collective unconscious?To keep it brief, take a look at the Anima Relics and who they are aligned with, it's not random. Each Relic is named after a son of Jacob who shares a trait with the character it aligns with. Since the Anima Relics are part of Deus, and humanity originates from the Animus, my inference is that the planet's collective unconscious is composed of 12 archetypes (the sons of Jacob). I don't think it matters whether Takahashi said it explicitly or not, because it produces precise, real meaning that explains the work more elegantly, but I suspect you'll reduce this to name dropping as well without explaining why, so I'll stop here.>The game doesn't give you an answer because the question isn't even asked in the first place.Ah, maybe it's as you say: I thought it was because it was a dramatization of Kant's third antinomy, where reason cannot arbitrate between determinism and free will. I also thought that 10,000 years of tragedies (born from humanity, not from Deus or Miang, look at Zeboim, Shevat) and humanity literally originating from a computer was a meaningful exploration, much like the Grand Inquisitor and Ivan Karamazov's rebellion. As for the rest, you just hurled accusations and insults without backing them up with arguments, so yeah, whatever
pretentious 2deep4u edgelord oc donutsteel garbage
gotta say im impressed anon is passionate enough to research this game to hate it more efficiently
>>745047047what happens when you experience something wanked to high heaven, you find it isn't as good as everybody says it is, and you're capable of pinpointing why. i don't hate Xenogears but i have a similar distaste for the way people are blinded into praising it
>>745047047Too bad it just made him look dumber
>>745046337So can you make any statement about what the wave existence says or you gonna keep vagueposting like that?>take a look at the Anima Relics and who they are aligned with, it's not random.So you would say Citan is an example of a virtuous man like Asher was? The same Citan who lies to Fei&Co. over and over because he's Kain's glowie? Oh right I guess he's such a friggin' deep parallel because he...uh...reconciles Fei and Id or something (he doesn't)? Brothers? Lacann? What does Ramsus, a psychotic failed test tube baby, have in common with Zebulun?Do you understand what "surface level" means? Because this is one of the most blatant examples of being surface level, might as well say that astrology is a legit system of divination.>because it produces precise, real meaning that explains the work more elegantly,No it fucking doesn't, you're just a highly impressionable pseud hallucinating meaning where there isn't, aka the perfect audience for hacks like Takahashi or Anno.>I thought it was because it was a dramatization of Kant's third antinomyYou thought wrong because the game has nothing to do with either determinism or free will, and if it tried it's clearly siding with the former given the player itself is stuck as a completely passive spectator for the entire game, meaning that even if said question was asked the game is so poorly written it actively undermines the effort in sparking some sort of internal discussion in the player's mind by refusing to walk to talk at a basic design level.>I also thought that 10,000 years of tragedies and humanity literally originating from a computer was a meaningful explorationA meaningful exploration of what?The game is woefully unfinished and none of that is actually explored, the best you get is an unfinished dungeon of the nuked Zeboim ruins, it's more and more surface level "worldbuilding" or rather unfinished snippets of it that don't offer any insight or discussion about much of anything.
>>745033096Yep. And it wasn’t even finished. Wild in 30 years no one’s been able to top is. Is humanity so talentless?
>>745033096Nah
>>745047220>i don't hate Xenogears but i have a similar distaste for the way people are blinded into praising iti think most people who blindly praise it in these threads are shitposters like in the chrono cross threadsthings to like and things to dislike, most anons in these thread are pointing out things to dislike>>745047231I'd personally want to have a conversation with someone well informed on a topic than someone who isn't, more interesting a conversation where both parties have the same knowledge base and experience if possible but different views
>>745033096Not probably.Absolutely.
ELLY. ELLY FUARKING SEX. HOLY ELLY SEX!!!
>>745033486>disc 2 hurrrrIt's 1/8th of the overall game.And some of the best parts.
>>745044503It's crazy you accuse xenotards of being shallow for liking their weird pastiche of sci-fi novels and anime when so much of shin megami tensei is a ripoff of Elric and the like.
>>745047450What can change the nature of a man?
>>745047243>So can you make any statement about what the wave existence says or you gonna keep vagueposting like that?You said WE explicitly states it isn't God, I showed you what it actually says, and I think it's more complex than how you summarized it.>So you would say Citan is an example of a virtuous man like Asher was? >What does Ramsus, a psychotic failed test tube baby, have in common with Zebulun?Asher is used by Leah as a means to gain power. Can you remind me who in the game is used by Cain?Zebulun is the symbol of Leah trying to be accepted by Jacob, who prefers Rachel instead. Can you remind me which character is set aside for another and spends the entire game harboring resentment over it?If you consider this surface level, then we have very different ideas of what that means.As for the rest, you are confusing gameplay with narrative. What does not being able to explore Zeboim have to do with anything? What is there proves that humanity destroyed itself. Or Shevat: who killed Sophia? The elders of Shevat, who sent no aid because they feared Sophia would gain too much influence? It's all right there. Krelian empirically observes the evil in the world and arrives at the conclusion that humanity is not free, but rather bound to a rotten existence, and you can't prove him wrong with logic, you can only bypass the logical plane
>>745047047nta but i put 400 hours into persona 5 so i could give concrete reasons on why its fucking garbage anytime it was brought up
>>745048652400 hours? isn't a persona game around 80 average?did you replay it multiple times? if so that just seems awful to replay a game you hate
>>745047220Sometimes people simply have different tastes, and there's nothing wrong with that, but subjective taste has no bearing on an artwork's artistic merit.I'm sure not everyone likes Dostoevsky, and you have every reason not to appreciate or criticize him, but that won't change Bakhtin's analysis or the brilliance of the Grand Inquisitor chapter. You don't have to like Xenogears, but that is a completely different claim from saying it is superficial. That said, I don't like baseless praise either, I believe that if you like something, you should be able to defend or explain it
>>745048983i dont like to keep multiple saves and missed the plat trophy on my second playthrough. there are 2 personas only obtainable in the the room before the last dungeon, i just thought they were ng+ locked and didnt bother looking it up until i had already missed it. it was probably more like 260 hours and idling
>>745049251so you played the game, decided you hated it, replayed it a second time, still hated itthen replayed it so you could get the plat trophy?anon why did you do this to yourself?you might be masochistic
>>745048437What does that have to do with anything?I mentioned SMT to say that none of that worthless vagueposting about "reification" being supposedly so special about Xenogears is true.>>745048543>I showed you what it actually saysAnd it explicitly says that it isn't the god humans make it out to be, never mind how the vast majority of the humans in the settings aren't even aware of the wave existence let alone the entire origin of the cult of Nisam.>Can you remind me who in the game is used by Cain?Cain isn't "using" Citan, Citan is fully on board with his plan, if anything Citan's the one using his privileged position to satisfy is own curiousity.>Zebulun is the symbol of Leah trying to be accepted by JacobSo Leah is both Cain and Miang/The Gazel Ministry now? Also Ramsus doesn't spend the entire game seething over Fei, he's not even fucking aware of his own origins and the plan of the ministry and Miang, he only seethes over Fei because he jobs to him over and over and the Ministry tell him he's a worthless jobber to the point he gets mindbroken by his repeated failures and the PTSD he got in Elru, so again, that a major overreach due to surface level writing.>you are confusing gameplay with narrativeGameplay IS narrative, which is what you and hacks like Takahashi who are incapable of making actual games understand.What you do in gameplay terms is narrative by necessity, it's impossible to separate the two because you can't say that something as simply as traveling from Aveh to Nisan or fighting Seibzehn isn't intrinsically narrative, it just so happens that Xenogears is poor in both types but especially the gameplay one.>What does not being able to explore Zeboim have to do with anythingThat's not the point, and you CAN explore Zeboim's ruin anyway, the point is that there's no meat to anything.>and you can't prove him wrong with logicHard to argue about feelings with logic, empty navel gazing for teens isn't worth engaging with either.
>>745049521the second playthrough was just to confirm validations and look more into systems to see if there was anything i missed that could be used in an argument. the third was just text skipping and basically auto running to the end just for the missed trophy
>>745049849You've dedicated a significant portion of your life to preparing for having in-depth arguments with strangers on the internet over the literary merits of children's toys. I want you to re-read that and think about it.
>>745050109what fucking board do you think this is? i have 700+ days in world of warcraft. 400 hours for shitposting is NOTHING
>>745049849your ability to replay something you despise is, certainly an interesting use of timemay you use your autism for a positive creative outlet too someday
>>745045070https://youtube.com/watch?v=NA3rTywS2yI&pp=ygUQWGVub2dlYXJzIHJlbWFrZQ%3D%3DYour remake reeks of jeets
>>745050205I respect the dedication to hating, to be sure, but that's a lot of energy you might consider putting to better use
>>745049597>And it explicitly says that it isn't the god humans make it out to be, never mind how the vast majority of the humans in the settings aren't even aware of the wave existence let alone the entire origin of the cult of Nisam.The WE created the universe, so it is to all intents and purposes God. The point is that God is shifted from a plane of ontological and supernatural distance to a cognitive and physical one, but that's the very essence of the secularization of myth, there is nothing supernatural, only something cognitively inaccessible to humans. Humans can't visualize a 5 dimensional cube, but no one would ever call it something sacred. As for Citan and Ramsus, I never said the connection had to map the plot 1:1, only that the relics share a precise archetypal trait with the character. That's a straw man you created to weaken what I said.>What you do in gameplay terms is narrative by necessity, it's impossible to separate the twoIt's true, you can't separate gameplay from narrative, but you said it doesn't explore certain things when that's just not true. Zeboim isn't in detail not because the game is incomplete, but because it wasn't part of episode V. Perfect Works goes into more detail, the argument now would be whether the paratext can be evaluated alongside the text (the game) or not, even though the game already contains everything and PW is just an in-depth expansion. There's enough to support Krelian's thesis.On that note, since you keep claiming it's purely emotion, Gendo Ikari style, I imagine, why does he still decide to ascend with the WE even when Elly, who in the ending possesses Sophia's memories, is right there? If it were purely an unresolved trauma, he would have collapsed at the sight of her. Clearly, Sophia's death was just the trigger for an autonomous philosophical thesis. The opposite of Gendo, who remains pathetic, obsessed with Yui, and punished by the work itself, while Krelian walks away with immense dignity.
>>745050394Anon... you're not THIS stupid, surely
>>745048543Also to actually add something on to this because this pseud midwittery pisses me off so much:>What is there proves that humanity destroyed itselfThe game LITERALLY states that Miang engineered the fall of the Zeboim civilizations so no, humanity most certainly did not destroy itself, it was the usual bullshit from the usual suspects that still push the same bullshit in the game's current timeline of events, humanity was never in control as the shadowy elite cabal holds the reins and that's the entire reason why you go slap Deus' shit, to FREE humanity from Deus/Miang/The Gazel Ministry control, also because the former is quite literally turning everyone into mutants so there's not much choice.>Or Shevat: who killed Sophia? The elders of Shevat, who sent no aid because they feared Sophia would gain too much influence?And what does that have to do with humanity's freedom? Political intrigue is the bread and butter of human society and Krelian himself was part of it so seething about it is ridiculous and overly sentimental.Nothing in the world is "free" by basic biological necessities and Krelian is only really screeching about it because Sophia died and he never got over it, which is the entire point of both him and Lacann as characters, neither got over their grief so they kept living on beyond their natural time like the edgy 90's manchildren they were to get back at some vague idea of "god" because their waifu died, with the key difference being that Krelian was and still is a fucking DYEL nerd while Lacann started lifting and became Darth Asia.If Krelian wanted to be free he'd embrace buddhism and grow a pair but the game is about christian gnosticism memes so he's not allowed to do that, you can make plenty of arguments to show how schlocky the writing is but again, since you have no fucking agency as a player to even try to argue against what the game sexplicitly tates it's pointless to discuss about it, there's no dialectic at all.
>>745050920>The game LITERALLY states that Miang engineered the fall of the Zeboim civilizations so noNo, it only states that Miang convinced the prime minister to go to nuclear war, the atmosphere of tension was already there.>And what does that have to do with humanity's freedom?It says that humanity, when left to its own devices, is destined to repeatedly cycle through the same tragedies because man is structurally flawed (the very core of The Grand Inquisitor). Krelian rebels against God's silence in the face of the death of the person he believed to be absolute purity. It is a revolt against creation itself
>>745049849I would fully respect you for that much commitment to understanding something just to hate on it HOWEVER just the act of putting in effort for a trophy whether it’s in a game you like or hate puts you down to pure cringe
>>745033096As a fellow Xenogears enjoyer I wish you'd stop posting this cringe shit. It's not the best game ever. It's a flawed miserable game that has an outstanding presentation and story if you have the patience of a saint.
>>745050920>the key difference being that Krelian was and still is a fucking DYEL nerd while Lacann started lifting and became Darth Asia.based
>>745051450You don't seem to enjoy it enough
>>745051450If you're the type of person who prioritizes story and depth, you can easily argue that one among Xenogears, Planescape Torment, Disco Elysium, or a few others is the absolute best
>>745040713>it's all about spamming your strongest deathblowuhh actually it's about spamming the right sequence of buttons to unlock stronger deathblows (that you don't really need but you want to see the animations don't you?)
>>745050876>The WE created the universeWhere is this stated? The Alpha and Omega bit?If it created the entire universe and is supposedly also part of all things then how did it get caught in a master ball? So much for this supposed spinozian God who's supposedly everywhere but also really wants to get out of the cuckshed.>there is nothing supernaturalThere is absolutely a lot of supernatural stuff involved, largely because it's still completely undefined and contradictory vagueposting about something that says it's god but actually not really god (tee-hee).>only that the relics share a precise archetypal trait with the character.So you agree that the writing is surface level.>but you said it doesn't explore certain things when that's just not true.It is absolutely true, the game is laughably shallow at all levels and Zeboim being a footnote is actually not that bad in the grand scheme of things because at the very least it's not forcefed onto you like everything else as the game forces you to go through a series of points of no return where entire locations also get deliberately bombed out of existence the moment the main plot is done with them, Nortune being the most painful example of that, and the worst part is that the game doesn't do much of anything with any of these either.>why does he still decide to ascend with the WEBecause by that point Krelian is fucking done with that shit and also has seen the actual truth of the universe.This is absolutely emotional as he completely gets over his initial angst as he realizes how insignificant every is when compared to the wave existence, which is where he gets his peace of mind and ultimate freedom, basically the story of Enoch and a lot of other biblical figures who ascend, I also don't see any dignity in a man who committed unfathomable crimes against an entire planet and gets to get away with his bullshit without even apologizing a little bit for it, Gendo at least gets his own contrapasso.
>>745047220I like xenogears but I feel this exact way about planescape. I played through it twice just so I could complain about it on /v/ honestly, but everyone just ignores my arguments or says I must not have understood it.
>>745052086It’s almost like nothing can change your nature
>>745051916>Where is this stated? The Alpha and Omega bit?>If it created the entire universe and is supposedly also part of all things then how did it get caught in a master ball? So much for this supposed spinozian God who's supposedly everywhere but also really wants to get out of the cuckshed.Krelian:Before the beginning of the universe, in the undulating waves of thehigher dimension,all things were one. It was the waves spilling out from there that created thisfour-dimensional universe of ours. 'Humankind' and the 'Souls of Humankind'that were bornfrom there, are merely leftovers of those spilled waves. So...>So you agree that the writing is surface level.More reductionism, I'll take your concession.I suggest you re-examine the ending, given that Krelian experiences an internal split similar to Ivan Karamazov, acknowledging he has committed too many sins. However, this does not refute his thesis.
>>745051309>it only states that Miang convinced the prime minister to go to nuclear warSo again, she engineered the fall of the Zeboim civilization, Miang has been around ever since the Eldridge fell on the planet and Deus spawned the first humans, pushing the right buttons here and there is still very much engineering human behaviour and society at large.>It says that humanity, when left to its own devicesBut the point is that humanity is NOT left to its own devices, Deus has been around forever, Miang has been around forever, the Gazel Ministry and Cain have been around for a long fucking time too.Humanity is FACTUALLY just biomass for Deus that is bred and controlled by a select number of individuals working for Deus, and it is carefully controlled and nudged into certain directions by this very cabal.Krelian initially rages against some delusion of god because he too was just another piece of the machine, eventually he sees the truth of the world's origin and his mindset changes, although very abruptly as the game is so poorly written and woefully unfinished you have to infer a whole lot about a character that barely has any screentime and comes to a very abrupt turn right in the last minutes of the games where he doesn't even give you a "Yeah, sorry" for all the shit he put the world through just because he couldn't get his dick wet, it is quintessential pretentious anime angst.
>>745052086It's such typical behavior to tell "you just didn't understand it." Sure, that might even be true, but in my view, it's often just laziness or because they don't actually know how to reply to you, so they appeal to authority
>>745051865you actually do need the stronger deathblows or else gear battles become nigh unwinnable since the higher levels of deathblows scale almost linearly to power
>>745052354>But the point is that humanity is NOT left to its own devices, Deus has been around forever, Miang has beenIt is. It wasn't Deus, Miang, the Gazel, or whoever else that caused Sophia's death, it was a bunch of old men terrified of losing power. It's the most human and banal evil possible
Xenogears is too close to the real situation here It's amazing it was ever allowed to release in the first placeBut it will never get a remake or remaster, not without heavy editing and rewriting of problematic elements that more people are now aware of
>>745052612All of that is still fundamentally overseen by the aforementioned entities, the elders of shevat having their own self interest doesn't make them any less of a puppet than anybody else especially when fucking Solaris was directly involved in the war and in Sophia's death, Krelian of all people should also have known better so the idea that Sophia's death has to be blamed on some cosmic human injustice is, again, largely sentimental nonsense on Krelian's part that is fundamentally laid bare by the overall narrative.And this is also why, again, Krelian also does a 180° at the end of the game when he gets to get away with his bullshit by getting walked home gently by WE-Kun, because he himself realizes that none of that shit actually matters in the grand scheme of things and he was just throwing a massive tantrum exactly like Lacann, difference being that Lacann copes by realizing that what he did was genuinely wrong and pathetic while Krelian is a dindu to the very end.
>>745051916>If it created the entire universe and is supposedly also part of all things then how did it get caught in a master ball?That's what makes the setting's worldbuilding so interesting, there's just this Zohar thing nobody can seem to explain, not even whatever space empire found it.
Say whatever you want, but Xenogears does something incredible with its progression that NO other game does: Its scaling of stakes are astronomical. It starts out so intimate and close to home and the adversaries and things at stake only increase throughout and they're all woven together so fucking well. There is never a sense that you're at the end of what you're going to discover about the plot at large, and the things at the end are foreshadowed so well, so often. Fuck. It is the most "I want to know more" game ever.
>>745053440there's also the way the game dripfeeds you its backstory through out of order flashbacks/dreams that make no sense until much later and you have to replay the game to see again.
>>745052649>problematic elementsSuch as?
>>745053440It's not just that, it's that it does so without treating its characters as cold, mere pawns like classic sci-fi often does. It has Dostoevsky's intimate warmth paired with a breathtaking scale, it perfectly bridges the micro and the macro
>>745053550It's one of the few games I can replay and see something new every single time, right down to stuff in the background. Like, they went so far as to detail the stuff kept on shopkeeper's shelves, it's nuts how detailed the world is.
>>745033096Disc 2 has some of the worst dungeons ever made in any game ever. Not to mention the combat sucks even for JPRG standards. Fuck you, OP.
>>745053803That's something I struggled with even when reading greats of the genre like Clarke or Heinlein, their human characters are usually so stiff compared to the imaginative worlds. Even someone like C.S. Lewis pulls it off with more grace, the Space Trilogy is some of the most compelling - if naive - Sci-fi ever written.
>>745033096only people who have experienced the game second handedly will ever claim this. nobody who has ever ACTUALLY played the game thinks this, it's pretty good but also extremely flawed
>>745054068I played it when it came out and I think this. It's a really contrarian position to take to downplay it.
>>745054138I mean it's all subjective in the end, it basically depends on how much leeway you're willing to give to the problems the game has. even the most ardent fan isn't going to really stick up for the tower of babel platforming or the fact that the game is just straight up not finished, but those things are brushed off typically because of the good that does exist. I think in a world where the devs were given a bigger budget and longer dev cycle it could very well be one of if not the best PS1 JRPG ever, but I really cannot overlook the things I disliked about it.
>>745054312Yeah, I think so too. It's my favorite work (not just game, overall), but I wasted an hour and a half at the Tower of Babel, and the same goes for the random encounters in Solaris. I simply don't give it much weight, but I recognize them as valid criticisms and it makes sense to point them out. What I notice, though, is that people sometimes confuse gameplay frustration with the quality of the story
>BRO YOU GOTTA TRY THIS GAME ITS SO GOOD ITS LIKE, REALLY COOL AND ESOTERIC, ITS SO IN DEPTH>its babbies first gnosticism
>>745054312Tower of Babel is really, really overstated. For one thing there are no random encounters at all. After the pattern shows itself you just explore the edges of platforms before you try jumping. You never get interrupted in the air by battles. Even as a kid I figured it out. Traffic jams punish you for not taking your time, and when you take your time you notice more about the world - The chests are located in places that tell you what's going on with what Babel Tower is, you notice "hey these walls look like they have streets on them" and "hey these walls look like they have chairs on them" and it hits you before anyone says anything that this is a vertically buried spaceship. It's one of my favorite areas in any game.
>>745054596It's literally not though. It's a rejection of the gnostic premise.
>>745054779it's a cool zone in basically every way except for the act of traversing it, in which the mystique can kind of wear off and turn into frustration.
Seeing the thread brutally tear down the story of Xenogears and its themes makes me anxious about making my own story focused game in the future I know for sure people are going to shit on it the same way here
I'm actually playing this game right now. Very slow start, it's starting to pick up just now. My main complains are the combat being too easy and the lack of minimap, other than the slow start the game has been great so far.I'm mostly playing it because I'm a big xenobladefag and I wanna play the rest of the xenogames, will play xenosaga after I'm done with xenogears
>>745054596>>745054821No, it's neither a rejection of Gnosticism nor merely Gnosticism. The author doesn't descend to saying who is right; he lets Krelian and Fei clash, and in the end, neither of the two consciousnesses is subsumed into a synthesis. It is the essence of polyphony, though this only applies to Xenogears, from Xenosaga onwards, it doesn't
>>745033096There will never be another game like Xenogears. Xenoblade games aren't even allowed to show blood anymore, let alone sex, cannibalism, or child prostitution.
>>745034530>Gone Homo KEK
>>745055181This has me worried if Nintendo really did buy the wrights to Saga. Niggers are going to censor the game even harder than the original NA/EU version plus add British accents for no reason. And people are begging for them to get Gears too.
>>745054890it is the nature of this board to shit on everything anon, go make cool shit anyway
I enjoyed this game a lot, even disk 2, and wish there was more.
>>745044503Bro why do you love yapping about videogame series you haven't even played, what the actual fuck
>>745055567tis worse, i fearhe played it but did not understand it
>>745054943Enjoy it, man. Biggest tip I can give you: Don't use death blows in random encounters unless it's an emergency. Instead, do like full sequences ending in squares or X's, every attack animation (four triangle, two square, and x) have their own invisible EXP bars, and death blows require each individual attack to have sufficient experience. XTTS, XSX, TTTTTS, TTTTTTT are all pretty important combos to do for fast Deathblow XP. Fei learns them slower than anyone.
>didnt click on thread because knew it wouldnt actually be about the game and instead arguments over actually nothing >click on it anyway>arguments over actually nothingOh well. I may not be able to discuss the franchise anymore but at least the games havent went off the deep end, yet.
>>745056278It's actually not nearly as bad as the Xenoblade threads. For whatever reason the schizo doesn't attack Gears threads as bad.
>i.....i hate le fighting!!! >has to participate in an brawling tournament KEK >>745056261I already know all of this, I talk to most npcs and an the village chief at lahan explains it. The xp bar for deathblows is not invisible, you can see it on the status menu, but even if you reach 100 xp, they're only given to you after you reach certain level
This is so silly
I really wish the model kits weren’t so stupidly expensive. It’s like $500 to get all kits and they’re all one color.
>>745033096sadly dogshit gameplay.
>>745056530Oh, no - You can see deathblow EXP, but not the attacks themselves. What I mean is when you use T T T T you get four attack animations. Each of those individual attacks has an invisible EXP level. Deathblows need those individual attacks to be used a number of times.
>>745056652Well yeah, you have to paint them.
>>745056652If I'm not mistaken, they never reprint Bring Arts, but they might reissue Structure Arts. I own a few, and while the quality isn't quite on par with Gunpla, they still look pretty neat even without paint imo
TOTAL SENTENCE IMPOSED IS TENTOTAL SENTENCE IMPOSED IS TENTOTAL SENTENCE IMPOSED IS TENTOTAL SENTENCE IMPOSED IS TEN
>>745037176an execution, hopefully.
>>745056747I'm too tired to understand that right now. Instead can you explain how deathblows while piloting a gear work? I haven't had this explained to me by an npc but for what I understand you need power levels, lvl unlocks deathblows that are started by triangle, and im guessing lvl 2 and 3 unlock deathblows that must be started by square and cross respectively. Also does using booster more than once do anything?
Soraya Saga is the true visionary of the series. Her bullprepper/"husband" takahahsi is gooner weeb embarassment that has done nothing but ruin the series.
>>745057169Xenoblade 3 is pure kino tho
>>745057219>Xenoblade 3/sleep
>>745057258Sleep well, unc
>>745057169Not to diminish her work, but my understanding is that she was in charge of Bart, Billy, and the characters related to them like Sigurd and Jessie, as well as the initial premise back in 1994, the rest, I believe, was Takahashi's doing
What are our thoughts on Baten Kaitos? I’ve been playing it, and it’s been really fun, though the card system can lean into being a more luck based system.
>>745057291>uncyou have no future because you rebel against your betters who lived these realities years before you existed.>>745057329my understanding is that she was in charge of Bart, Billy, and the characters related to them like Sigurd and Jessie, as well as the initial premise back in 1994,>as well as the initial premise back in 1994all of that was what people loved about the series. Takahashi has proven that through what would become saga and blade: the weebiest shit in existence.
>>745057425Suck my pee pee stupid sleepy unc
>>745054943I struggled to get past Kislev many times when I tried playing. When I finally did, it was well worth it. Get through the Kislev slog.
>>745033201Who cares what they look like? You play them for the character progression and the story. Your imagination should fill in the gaps that the graphics can't realize. You do have an imagination, right, Anon?
>>745057003So for Fei you have:▲ Fei goes "ha" and does a forward palm strike, let's call this "Shōtei"▲▲ Fei goes "hun" and does a spinning backfist, let's call this "Uraken"▲▲▲ Fei goes "tsoi" and does a spinning uppercut palm strike, let's call this "Age-shōtei"▲▲▲▲ Fei goes "burya" and does a spinning dual palm strike, let's call this "Morote-shōtei"Fei can't learn the deathblow Senretsu until Shotei and Uraken are of sufficient level. Even though Shotei and Uraken are at max level, he can't learn the deathblow Fukei untik Shotei, Uraken, Age-Shotei, and Morote-Shotei are at a high enough level, even if Fei's level is high enough. Each of the four strikes in his triangle sequence has its own unique level. You have to use each of them enough times to learn the deathblow.Gear deathblows correspond to character deathblows. When you learn one for a character, the gear gets another deathblow. Attacking in a Gear increases your Power Level by 1. For example, use a Triangle attack to get to Level 1, then use Triangle again and hit Circle to cancel and get to Level 2.Level 1 deathblows start with Triangle, Level 2 with Square, Level 3 with X. Each power level has three deathblows assigned, but you can't use the third ones until you unlock infinity mode. Using booster more than once cancels booster. Equip speed shoes and you have booster for free.
>>745057169Nah Takahashi is the one with all the genuine scifi and psychology interest. Its hard to accept but some people really do just lose it as they get older. And with how gears and saga turned out can you blame him for leaning into more mass appeal anime slop? Especially with how successful they've been comparatively?
>>745057608Appreciated it. It makes sense now
>>745057613>Nah Takahashi is the one with all the genuine scifi and psychology interest.citation neededcounter citation: saga and blade
>>745057815You haven't played the blade games, silly unkie. Otherwise you'd know how stupid you sound right now
>>745057815>citation neededsure, there were some interviews I can fin->smug anime reaction image...annoying. I shan't be communicating with you further
>>745057425>>745057613After Xenogears, the antagonists are all either abstract personifications or characters who ultimately change their minds and are defeated/redeemed. That means Xenosaga, Xenoblade 1, 2, and 3 are four iterations of the Myth of Sisyphus. It baffles me, even with Xenosaga. There are a lot of questionable choices Takahashi made after Xenogears. Resource management, for instance, not that he was perfect in Xenogears, but he chose to deliver the climax knowing he only had one shot. In Xenosaga, he started with an extremely long prologue, even squandering the budget on the London Philharmonic Orchestra. He could have started with the climax and narrated the rest through cheaper mediums like novels or anime, just as he originally intended for Gears. I don't know, the hubris of finally being on his own was his undoing.
Not the best game ever made, but truly a great and memorable one. I just recently beat it for the first time and it stuck with me in a way not many games do, and jrpgs are my fav genre.Let’s not pretend it’s extremely deep or anything, but the whole package of good characters, music, top-tier worldbuilding, and fun combat was absolutely sick
>>745058291>Let’s not pretend it’s extremely deep or anythingBut it is
>>745041916I hate retards like this guy
Why is Fei's name so chingchongy when everyone else has pretty standard English names?>Bart>Elly>Rico>Margie>Feifongwongchingchongdingdong
>>745033096brutally mogs the competition.
>takahashi>graphic director on ff and ct>GIVE THIS MAN THE HELM OF FF7>fucks it up>doesn't get to finish disc 2 because overbudget>wife salvages what she can>ends up nintendo's bitchLike nomura, the grass artist for CT elevated beyond his means. baka Square-Shitnix. Learn from Capcom. ONLY promote kohai with ACTUAL talent!
>>745058401>The best japanese game has a chinese martial artist protagonist and it's made by Takahashi>The best japanese manga has a chinese martial artist protagonist and it's made by Takahashi
>>745056910Thanks for that rabbit hole.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C98FekziprI
>>745033096what about the shitty second disc?
>>745058401Because Fei is based on Wong Fei-hung, whose name is spelled the same in Katakana. Wong Fei-hung was a drunken boxer, an extremely distinctive style of martial art that resembles being drunk or in a trance. That trance-like state is essential to understanding Fei/Id/Grahf/Kahn, as they all fight the same. Lahan and the surrounding nomadic villages (not pictured) are based on rural China.
>>745033096It could have been the best game for sure, sadly it shows how rushed it was by the last third of the game.As it stand to the dat the best Xeno gears is still Xenosaga
>>745058635The second disk is the good part where all the interesting stuff that makes the game so memorable happens.
Man, these fucking check marks to be able to advance the story are getting so annoying, you gotta check everything in the environmental and talk to most npcs to be able to progress. 13 year old me wouldn't have minded but I'm too old to care about this shit. I get it if it's your favorite game ever, but saying that this might be the best game ever made has to be mental illness
>>745058835Dumb adhd zoomer
>>745059056It's not about adhd, it's about not having infinite time
https://youtu.be/tLOSpWhnss0
>>745058835Huh? That's not true.
>>745037176You do know the game was made for CRTs not to squat on the toilet and play right?
>>745055338>being a dubfag in the first placeRetard.Also >no reasonThe games are localized by Europeans.>>745058530>being this retarded
>>745044937Man you sound salty for being stupid. Blame your parents for your genetic dead end
>>745059430I'm playing the game right now, why would you say that I'm lying?
>>745059559>u retawd i got no argumuntyou lost. never reply to anyone again.
>>745055181>Xenoblade games aren't even allowed to show blood anymoreWhat??? there's blood in 1 and 3 >let alone sexYeah that's true but we know sex has happened between characters >cannibalismXenoblade 2 does >child prostitution.That's true but why would I want this edgy shit straight out of berserk This thread is full of bitter loser boomers who hate on xenoblade for literally no reason
>>745057613>Nah Takahashi is the one with all the genuine scifi and psychology interestSci-fi maybe, but the psychology stuff was definitely from Saga. It's disappearance and irrelevance in all the blade games make that obvious.
>>745060003I'm playing Xenoblade 1 now and the "blood" in the Ether Mine before fighting Xord was fucking gray.
>>745060003When is there blood in 3? 1 has it in a single fucking scene and it looks so washed out it looks like oil
>>745058805Yes, the microsoft powerpoint is very memorable
>>745060030Interviewer: I’ve heard of users getting into sci-fi novels because of hearing information like that on the internet or in magazines. Psychology books as well. Xenogears has a lot of psychology terms.Takahashi: I don’t think I can thank Jung and Lacan enough. (laughs) If you look at Jung’s work through a logical lens, you’ll realize that a lot of what he writes is actually not sound logic, or makes you go, “wait, what?”. He’s got a bit of the crazy gene in him, but as a resource for writing, or just as an entertaining read, his stuff is gold.
>>745059701Because there's maybe like five times you have to interact with the environment in the game. What part are you at?
>>745060080>>745060131Idk if you guys are playing definitive edition but xenoblade 1 on the wii has red blood, and you can see it very early when you know who gets killed (I haven't played definitive edition myself) Xenoblade 3 has blood when Kamunabi gouges out one of his eyes out, although it looks dark in color, is still blood. And I don't think you need blood pouring out of somebody for a game to be good, although I do like it and I'd preferred if there was more blood in xenoblade, the lack of it doesn't ruin the games for me tho. Maybe there's blood in xenoblade 2 too but I barely remember that game
Lmfao
Miang is so damn crazy unbelievably hot
>>745034097>>745035024It isn't rare at all you midwit retard, have you never dived into 20th century literature? Xenogears is extremely badly written, it's beyond clumsy and offers teenager insights on every theme it superficially tackles. The characters are especially bad, outside of the main trio and Bart to a lesser degree, every party character is as a thick as a cardboard and the antagonists really aren't much better with Rammus turning into a sad cartoon villain parody.Imagine mentioning Xenogears and Dostoevky in the same breath lmao.
>>745033096mogged by XB2
Why does takahashi reuses concepts and characters over and over and over again
>>745061632same reason we post over and over again
>>745061632Because they still haven't been fully realized
>>745061080>have you never dived into 20th century literature? Post a couple non russian faves and why
>>745054943lol I’m playing the game for the first time too, just got to disc 2, and it isn’t just a slow start the whole game is a slog, some of the later dungeons are horrificStill a good game so far though
is it better than umineko tho
>>745060214He’s probably just done the part at Aveh where you have to play hide and seek with the kid because you’re right outside of that you barely need to do anything
>>745063776The hide and seek part is totally optional, too. It just gives you a badge that you use way way later. That's probably it, though. Aveh gives you a lot of opportunities to get lost. It's one of the rare times.
>>745064582You need to do at least the first part of it to get the well key, and I meant that whole sequence is probably what they’re referring to because you have to actually interact with the well to proceed and there isn’t any indication that’s what you need to do
>>745033096>>745033709It’s barely even a game and I’m not even talking about disc 2.And while I’m at it saga and blade are just as bad.
>>745042576I can tell you have zero education from this post.
>>745054890>I want to market to a bunch of psueds who spend 20+ years obsessing over one shitty game because it has moon runes in it. You would be better off getting hired to work on a UE5 remake.
>>745046463This.
>>745061080>isn't rare at all you midwit retard, have you never dived into 20th century literatureAh, good to know, I thought Bakhtin himself had emphasized the specificity and rarity of polyphony. Excellent, too, are all the accusations of poor writing without actually addressing the substance. Also regarding its nature as an encyclopedic work, many of them are monologic like the Divine Comedy, so I thought the combination of an encyclopedic and polyphonic work was very rare.>>745067932Good argument
>>745033096That's Skyrim
>>745053587The elites being a bunch of depraved pedophiles who exploit the masses but maintain control regardless by manufacturing, magnifying, and perpetuating petty issues into generational conflicts that redirects the pleb's anger over their worsening conditions from their oppressors (the elites) to eachother with endless meaningless fake conflicts over petty bullshit that these elites create and cultivate, so elites can continue to exploit them to achieve their goals of immortal life via their techno-AI-god.In the 90's it was just kinda silly, but nowadays, after the Epstein files, we found out these elites actually do hangout, both sides, because to them the two sides are them the handful of elites and us (everyone else), they all play-fight on TV, pretending to be on team red or blue, but really they're on the same side, its a small party and none of us are invited, manufacture fake culture war issues to keep us fighting, ferment anger among the masses so they're too busy and divided to do anything about them exploiting us, and they do want to live forever, and they are trying to make a "god AI". The Gazel Ministry as Xenogears dubbed them is real, they're just not a shadowy group like in the game, its the same handful of billionaires you already know who all hangout on superyachts and private islands, barbacue a cambodian kid on the weekend then go back to work on Monday owning all the media, getting you mad about the minorities they imported, buying up all the RAM, making your favorite characters gay for no reason and then replacing them with a DEI trans minority, and building data centers in your backyard that triple the cost of your utilities, it was them all along, left/right politics was fake, they were behind all of it.It maps almost perfectly to how the elites in Solaris created and perpetuated the endless war between Avah and Kislev in Xenogears.
>>745033096The gameplay is way too mediocre for that imo, it has a great story and soundtrack though
>>745033096Little heavy on the random encounters but overall a solid game.
>>745071649Kino
>>745061080>20th century literatureNo, thanks
>>745058530>ends up nintendo's bitchIn reality it's actually the opposite, the exception being the full 3D Mario developer team.
>>745072375Exactly my thoughts while playing. This shit wouldnt get past the door today, it reveals way too much.
>>745072375Dont discount the 'sci fi' parts of the story so easily.Take a good look at Human physiology, behaviour, and development and ask yourself if our species truly fits in with the rest of the fauna on the planet, and if it logically ever did. We are clearly not made for this environment, and the fossil records dont clearly show any link between us and the somewhat similar hominids we claim as our ancestors other than our species mixed with them at some pointEven ancient descriptions of the world dont really match up with the Earth we know, as if they are stories of a different place altogether
>>745033096Wrong imageENTERTHE TIME KOMPRESSING KINO KINO FANTASY 8 FINAL KINO 8 THE KINO OF KINOS
>>745033096mid-air random encounters
>>745075472I still can't believe how fucking bad that Tower of Babel platforming shit was
>>745076024Just use savestates
>>745076153I did. Not an excuse for the game sucking.
>>745058672What's with Xenofags lately? Why do they want everything to be a reference to Gear and Saga in the Xenoblade?
>>74507434820th century lit > 18th century lit > 19th century lit
this guy has only one word in his mind and it's power
>>745076848
>>745033096Perfect Works Xenogears could have been the greatest video game ever made.You can thank Final Fantasy VIII on why we didn't get it.
>>745072375Whenever I see any screenshots it always strikes me just how awful the writing is. Compare how clunky the writing in the screenshot feels and compare it to what a real stylist can do:>At the images she sees in the mirror Katje also feels a cameraman’s pleasure, but knows what he cannot: that inside herself, enclosed in the soignée surface of dear fabric and dead cells, she is corruption and ashes, she belongs in a way none of them can guess cruelly to the Oven . . . to Der Kinderofen. . . remembering now his teeth, long, terrible, veined with bright brown rot as he speaks these words, the yellow teeth of Captain Blicero, the network of stained cracks, and back in his nightbreath, in the dark oven of himself, always the coiled whispers of decay. . . . She recalls his teeth before any other feature, teeth were to benefit most directly from the Oven: from what is planned for her, and for Gottfried. He never uttered it clearly as threat, nor ever addressed to either of them directly, but rather across her trained satin thighs to the evening’s guests, or down the length of Gottfried’s docile spine (“the Rome-Berlin Axis” he called it the night the Italian came and they were all on the round bed, Captain Blicero plugged into Gottfried’s upended asshole and the Italian at the same time into his pretty mouth) Katje only passive, bound and gagged and false-eyelashed, serving tonight as human pillow for the Italian’s whitening perfumed curls (roses and fat just at the edge of turning rancid) . . . each utterance a closed flower, capable of exfoliation and infinite revealing (she thinks of a mathematical function that will expand for her bloom-like into a power series with no general term, endlessly, darkly, though never completely by surprise) . . .
>>745077254>his phrase Padre Ignacio unfolding into Spanish inquisitor, black robes, brown arching nose, the suffocating smell of incense + confessor/executioner + Katje and Gottfried both kneeling, side by side in dark confessional + children out of old Märchen kneeling, knees cold and aching, before the Oven, whispering to it secrets they can tell no one else + Captain Blicero’s witch-paranoia, suspecting them both, Katje despite her NSB credentials + the Oven as listener/avenger + Katje kneeling before Blicero in highest drag, black velvet and Cuban heels, his penis squashed invisible under a flesh-colored leather jockstrap, over which he wears a false cunt and merkin of sable both handcrafted in Berlin by the notorious Mme. Ophir, the mock labia and bright purple clitoris molded of—Madame had been abject, pleading shortages—synthetic rubber and Mipolam, the new polyvinyl chloride . . . tiny blades of stainless steel bristle from lifelike pink humidity, hundreds of them, against which Katje, kneeling, is obliged to cut her lips and tongue, and then kiss blood-abstracts across the golden ungessoed back of her “brother” Gottfried. Brother in play, in slavery . . .
>>745077309>she had never seen him before coming to the requisitioned house near the firing sites, hidden in the woods and parkland of this settled tongue of small farms and estates that reaches eastward from the royal city, between two expanses of polder, toward Wassenaar—yet his face, for that first time, seen in autumn sunlight through the great west window of the drawing-room, kneeling naked except for a studded dog collar, masturbating metronomic, at shouted commands from Captain Blicero, all his fair skin stained by afternoon a luminous synthetic orange she has never before associated with skin, his penis a blood monolith, its thickly gasping mouth audible in the carpeted silence, his face raised to none of them, but as if to something on the ceiling, or in the sky which ceilings may in his vision stand for, eyes-down as he seems most of the time to be—his face, ascending, tightening, coming, is so close to what she’s been seeing all her life in mirrors, her own studied mannequin’s stare, that she catches her breath, feels for a moment the speeded percussion of her heart, before turning just such a stare toward Blicero. He is delighted. “Perhaps,” he tells her, “I will cut your hair.” He smiles at Gottfried. “Perhaps I’ll have him grow his.”
>>745075472It's not, those in Babel Tower are scripted
>>745077028KekXenoblade proved that Takahashi is a one trick hack so I'm glad we got Final Fantasy VII instead.
>>745076976a conversation between him and vergil would be quite amusing
>>745077786That one trick was better than the entirely of FF's catalog THO
>>745077254>>745077309>>745077365Besides the fact that you are comparing a rushed translation done by a single person in a few months to a text originally written in English. You are mixing up two different things. Not all works need that baroque prose, just as Kafka or Camus don't, neither does Xenogears. Are you sure that kind of style would have helped the comprehension of an already dense narrative, or would it have just made it confusing? One thing is a preference for a particular prose style (which is subjective, and Xenogears' remains dry and essential), another is confusing that aspect with the quality of the writing and structure itself. Moreover, I don't understand why style gets praised, but sci-fi novum, the creative value of elegantly reworking scientific concepts, does not. That too is an expression of creativity.
>>745077879Trvke.
>>745045625Chrono Cross IS deep. It's just not a good story.
>>745077254This reads like AI slop when you set the temperature too high.
>>745078360As I am addressing a person so accomplished in literature, I need only state, without enlarging further on the matter, that the Sublime, wherever it occurs, consists in a certain loftiness and excellence of language, and that it is by this, and this only, that the greatest poets and prose-writers have gained eminence, and won themselves a lasting place in the Temple of Fame. A lofty passage does not convince the reason of the reader, but takes him out of himself. That which is admirable ever confounds our judgment, and eclipses that which is merely reasonable or agreeable. To believe or not is usually in our own power; but the Sublime, acting with an imperious and irresistible force, sways every reader whether he will or no.
>>745059840>being this retardedLol. Lmao.
>>745050902You game is
>>745058672this is some bad googling.wong fei hong is only a drunken boxer in jackie chans drunken master lmao.that movie is a subversion of the character. jackie chan is an absolute shithead in it.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=rkLYYFJA-yo&pp=ygUUbGllIG9mIGNhZWx1bSBzcGlyaXQ%3DHere’s your shitty homage
>>745081762>Here’s your shitty homage
Fucking pseuds, I swear.
>>745082902>Xenogear supporters What more can be said?
>>745074787Instead of the typical 'head-hunting' of talent that Nintendo usually does, they purchased the studio outright and can more easily, freely move talent across projects. I was a big move on their part, and wise of Monolithsoft IMO. The talent gets more experience in other genres, Takahashi continues to make games, and the story goes on. A good outcome.
For me it would be this kinohttps://youtu.be/tQTd7V0JXBE
>>745082902>Pseud!>Because...?>You like thing I don't like!
It has the best mecha designs in vidya
>>745085401This. What's your favorite Gear? Mine's Crescens
>>745085605Weltall 2 and Fenrir
>>745084004More people hate it than like it cultist
>>745033201>They look so cheap except for FFVIII>names the graphically worst PS1 FF Are you blind?
What about recent Xenogears thread? This game finally got re-release or some big youtubers play it?
>>745086206FF8 is basically the Dark Souls 2 of the PS1 FF trilogyFF7 (DS1) is the classic, FF9 (DS3) is excellent despite the flaws and FF8 is the shitty black sheep. But because its the shitty black sheep, /vee/ will suddenly treat it like the greatest game ever made and will look at all the dogshit and bad systems and say they are good. They will even praise the graphics despite the fact that they are uglyFF8 sucks a cocky
>>745086402>FF9 is excellent despite the flawssure it is faggot. congratulations on your transition btw
>>745086514>immediate FF8 troon seetheyou love to see it. FF8 is a bad game
>>745086514>tranny projectingSeethe and dilate.
>>745086514>main villain is a faggotI thought FF9 was the gay one? I didnt know it was based?
>>745061080>Rammus turning into a sad cartoon>Imagine mentioning Xenogears and Dostoevky in the same breath lmaoHoly shit, TREVOR. GUYS, IT'S TREVOR, TREVOR'S HERE.
>>745086107Source: Trust me bro
>>745086363No. About 5-7 cultists giving praise and finding errant connections to it and everything else. Rare to find this level of delusion for a game but fun.
>>745087476>errant connections Good argument
>>745033486I went in knowing what to expect and still felt let down. First, they completely pull the rug on your big win from the end of disc 1. Solaris was destroyed? Just kidding, they've got more and bigger facilities down on the planet, you basically blew up the lawnmower shed in their backyard. YOOOOO HOLY SHIT SOLARIS HAS GOT THIS SUPER WEAPON NOW AND YOU'RE IN AN XBOXHUEG ROBOT AND IT'S PLAYING THE HYPE MUSIC AND...it just falls flat, the complete lack of buildup kills the moment and the music playing feels more like a cheap joke because the game that previously took its time to make you care about things didn't have time for this one, they should have just played the regular boss or Gear fight music. The Anima dungeons are ok, but at that point the game is just going through the motions to get you your final Gears. The Foreboding theme based on the intro animation song is great but it gets spammed so much through disc 2 that it doesn't hit as hard as it should have in the final dungeon. Also the fact that Solaris was building a CONTINENT-SIZED BASE IN SECRET is sort of unbelievable even for this game, I give it a bit of a pass because it's a cool idea and it's neat that it happened but still. Also this takes me to another nitpick which is that it's the size of a continent, you enter its core for the final battle, but after that battle everyone's Gears stop working except Fei's and...the rest of the party gets out within minutes or hours to wave to Fei and Elly at the end. A lot of the best moments are in disc 2, but there's so much compromise surrounding it that it will always be a hard sell.
>>745034530>reading a novel with bad proseSpeaking of Xenogears>>745035024It is. The writing itself is bad. It's stiff and awkward, but is saved by the concepts and events backing it. Like having a 160 IQ psychology thesis being read to you by a 70 IQ retard.
>>745037902They're not all great but they're interesting which is more than I can say for most modern JRPGs even by the same companies
>>745041916Honestly I'll take XG using jew shit for no reason over JRPGs these days which use nordic shit with even less connection to the source material
>>745042296For me the worst shit is the screen constantly flashing white during fights
I fucking love Xenogear but I wouldn't go that far.
>>745044503>SMT retroactively copied pokemon AND digimon@FBI
>>745088281>Exactly, this translation rushed by a single person is proof that it's poorly written. I'll keep using "bad writing" as a synonym for "I don't like this style of prose", ignoring the plot, the psychological characterization of the characters, or the philosophical structure of a polyphonic encyclopedic work.>XG using jew shit for no reasonlike Dostoevsky quoting Schiller, Diderot, or the Gospels for no reason
>>745088574https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/5048/
>>745045814Uhhhhh actually it did get taken away because he fuckin died lmao
>>745049849I'm getting Cromartie flashbacks
>>745052612Would old people really do that? Ruin the world just to stay in power?
>>745053440Here is where I use reductionism to point out that every japanese game starts you out in middle ages village before having you fight god at the end
>>745088694>I'll keep using "bad writing" as a synonym for "I don't like this style of prose", ignoring the plot, the psychological characterization of the characters, or the philosophical structure of a polyphonic encyclopedic work.Glad we're on the same page. The execution is everything, absolutely everything in a work of art.
>>745055181My favorite part of how far censorship has come is that the edgiest thing the Xeno series has done since Blade started is show a happy and loving harem relationship.
>>745089465Ok Nabokov
>>745056530>>745056648Not just that but he has to beat the fuck out of a kid whose family he murdered. Fei is NOT a good person.
>>745088098>The Foreboding theme based on the intro animation song is great but it gets spammed so much through disc 2They changed "We, the Wounded Shall Advance into the Light" to "Foreboding" in Golgoda in the US version, it doesn't change your point but just saying
>>745057329>Bart, Billy, and the characters related to them like Sigurd and JessieWhen you take a step back and look at the main cast, them, Fei, Elly, and anything surrounding Krelian and Miang are the only ones that don't feel like walking memes. She's half or more of the reason the story is great.
>>745089605Fei didn't choose the thug life, it chose him
>>745058672>a drunken boxerI thought that was that weak gay dude's schtick.
>>745087708Shit game
>>745058805This was cool to me when it was posted in a thread before I beat the game and I assumed it was about building a Deus, then you play the segment and it's just some big Wels during covid
>>745058805Yeah like uuuh
>>745090097Wels are material for Deus
>>745070526Women and men don't actually need each other.
>>745090237aren't we all?
>>745033096No game with shit gameplay can be the best anything
>>745090237WRONG, everybody is part of Deus, and should be grateful for his gift of life.
>>745090301But they doThe ills of society are a direct result of the deliberate sabotage of relations between men and women
>>745075116>We are clearly not made for this environment
>>745075116>Even ancient descriptions of the world dont really match up with the Earth we know, as if they are stories of a different place altogetherWtf are you talking about?
>>745090301>>745090426Krelian gets two wings on his own, while Fei and Elly get them together.Both are acknowledged by the work, neither is dismissed as wrong
>>745088780That's nice but I still played the whole game with slowmo epilepsy mode
>>745090528look bro, 2 years ago a post like >>745072375 would have been nothing but cazed schizobabble too, who's to say what we find out by 2028. We might have been atrifically seeded on this planet by ClaudeDemiurge 666.1 10,000 years ago.
>>745090670Krelian joined with the WE which was a complete being, meaning Krelian had ascended beyond Humanity
>>745090732I was born here, however I fully support anyone who feels like an alien leaving my country immediately.
>>745090818>I was born hereAh yes, and I suppose a monkey born in Norway was clearly made for that environment too, he was born there after all.
Why do you people praise a near 30 y/o game that its creator lost its rights to and thus has not completed it as he intended?
>>745037176This is how 99% of /v/ play games and they come back here to tell you that the game was shit btww.
Game was too ambitious for its own good.If they couldn't make it with 90s standards no chance anything like it could be made today.Should've streamlined the early game. Feels like over half of the important plot points happened on disc 2.
>>745092067>they come back here to tell you that the game was shitAnd they will be right.
This game introduced me to brown greens
>>745091850It is not uncommon for a work of art to remain incomplete throughout art history.Besides, it's an unwritten law: if you create a video game masterpiece with literary depth, you're destined to lose the rights to it. Takahashi, Avellone, and Kurvitz
>>745091850>>745092341Its poetic, and the designers recognized they were never going to finish it and wove that into the game thematically.
>>745091850What does that have to do with being good?Nothing at all
>>745033096the most infuriating thing about xenogears is that even though it's the blueprint of how to make the best game ever there's zero chance we'll ever get a AAA remake of it.
>>745093394>there's zero chance we'll ever get a AAA remake of it.And that's a good thing. Nothing AAA has been good for 20 years
>>745033096Not while disc 2 exists. I won't deny about the story being good though.
>>745092341>KurvitzHe hasn't created a single game masterpiece.
>>745093394Maybe if mainline FF keeps flopping Square will get desperate enough to ask for a collaboration with Monolith
>>745093580u mad
>>745092950Because it’s not good
>>745086402Alright I understand your analogy but FF9 is 10x better than DaS2 but yes FF8 sucks the story is jumbled shit, Rinoa is fucking awful and you can dog walk everything in the game with no effort
>>74509376910x better than DaS3 I mean that game is dogshit
>>745093732Because...
>>745093985No point in arguing with cultists.
>>745092254I don't care for phoneposters posts.
>>745094057>If you ask for arguments on the merits, you're a cultist!
>>745086402>FF9 (DS3) is excellent despite the flawsI like the first half, at least
>>745086402Comparing everything to Souls is reddit as fuck, and definitely shows your birth year starts with 2
>>74509447397 and you're a homo
>>745094596>he's over here talking about souls this and souls that>calling someone else a homoSit down little boy
>>745094596You're a disgrace to our year. Kill yourself.
>>745095921>more redditposting
>>745095706This game is a disgrace to gaming
Look and observe the true behaviour of the Xenohater in his true formThis is the type of "person" who thinks the game is bad
>745095921>745095998Jeet.
>>Xeno posts>Smart, well reasoned takes about a well beloved game that reached for the stars, comitted to its premise even beyond its material means>>BasedBZ posts>Desperate flailing to get their discord to laugh at their clown act the thousandth time, clinging to it as their only means to receive (you)s
xenoshit LOST
https://youtu.be/84Hac1oKVnM
>>745091052Don't talk about slavs like that
28/29 year old using wojaks AND he has numbered filenames, how fucking embarrassing kek
>>745091890Came out of nowhere really
>>745093769FF8 is pretty good for the characters' journey but it explains almost nothing, just last week I learned about the Great Hyne which has like no story presence at all despite being the Jenova to the Sorceresses' Sephiroth.
>>745096089>even talks like a cultist to the rest of the miserable kineRecall your demiurge mentioned the have and have nots. Oh the irony.
Epic spergout, you love to see it
>>745097051>>745096797>>745096649the shartychads can’t be stopped! oh no no no bros what can we do against this?!
>>745033096>best game ever made.>Has shit game designUhmmm... No? This shit is not even as good as NGE
>>745097286Mmm filtered.
>>745097286What does game design have to do with the story and NGE?
I loved this game. I have no idea what's going on in this thread but I blame the demiurge.
>>745092314Are there any other characters with dark skin and green hair like that?
>>745096696To me, it seems like the exact opposite: detractors do nothing but call people cultists or accuse them of making things up to avoid engaging with the actual substance, while fans have fleshed out their arguments
I'm a gigantic nigger.
>>745094596>96One off, kek
I'M ANGRY!!
>>745097731>>745097635>>745097545>>745097398>>745097294>>745097051>>745096797
>96>One off, kek
>turning anon posts into Wels postsVery thematic
>>745037176Wtf is that!?
>>745097183It's his default state of being. Any semblance of intelligence from him is just an act- and not convincing at that.
>>745090368Freedom for family.
Game is fucking kino, especially if you’re a fan of mecha. Reading through this thread, I’m starting to think that shmup tranny is posting here.
>>745097764No that’s a mutant dolphin
>>745098082Shit on a smartphone
>>745098782I thought the mechs were the most whatever part of xenogears visually / world building wise. I wonder if xenoblade X does them better.
N
>>745099093isan
>>745098942I enjoyed the many references, especially the god gundam pose, Id being Ideon etc.
>>745087476>No. About 5-7 cultists giving praise and finding errant connections to it and everything else. Rare to find this level of delusion for a game but fun.outer wilds psueds both outnumber and out outautofellate xenotards.
>>745099073If S-E cared, they'd let an actual toymaker do these as model kits.
>>745099073My HEROES and Elly
>>745099381SE makes their own toys. They refuse to split profits with anyone on anything.
>>745033096chill on that nostalgium bruh
>>745033201I fucking love PS1 era JRPGs. To me, it strick a nice balance between the experimentation you saw in the 3rd gen, with the refined gameplay and story elements seen in 4th gen games.
>>745033096Amazing soundtrack and for me, Yasunori Mitsuda's best work.
>>745099676I played this game a few months ago for the first time and i agree with OP.
>>745099841Xenoblade 2: Am I a joke to you?
>>745099657>SE makes their own toys.yeah, I know- and I'm not impressed.>They refuse to split profits with anyone on anything.Kotobukiya managed to get the rights to do Front Mission girlpla, somehow- but they're a lot more expensive than other kits of equivalent scale.Yet their existence makes me ask: Does this mean FM is more dead than Xenogears in their esteem- or vice versa?
>>745100094it could be im not saying it ain't but we are so far and beyond that if we are being objective. as much as chuds hate to admit it Fromsoft elevated videogames and Elden Ring is the Ruby on HondaMitisubishi's Crown
>>745037176Gnostic kung fu mecha schizo kino.
>>745100243Well, yes.
>>745100243He wasn't the sole composer for that OST. The majority of compositions were from Kenji Hiramatsu and ACE.
Playing this for the first time. Seems like a pretty blatant mashup of Gundam Zeta (Elly especially) and Eva so far. Stock tropes like amnesia and burnt villages are disappointing given the reputation. Citan must be evil/anti-hero, but he's on the team regardless. Pirate himbo captain and his posho butler is pure 2000's anime and is off the squad. Rico seems ancillary like the FF9 bruiser dude.Currently I'm at the orphanage and the narrative has just...stopped? There's no driving action to the plot and random things/characters are just appearing by happenstance. Plot points are just brought up to be abandoned (Rico is like royalty or something?) and the combat is braindead rpg - just with grinding for new animations.Hoping it picks up. I might as well stick with it now, nothing can be worse than that sewer murder case, jesus.
>>745099237Hard to believe
>>745101142IIRC Rico never finds out his own origin and his dropped potential as a character is a sticking point with lots of people, myself included since he was a fun enough character otherwise.
>>745033096I remember finding out the guy who obsessively made these threads was a schizo just regurgitating a podcast he was obsessed with.
>>745101295Videos like these and the comments are proof that video game fans don't have the slightest clue what literature or storytelling actually is. They treat video games like household appliances: if it checks their arbitrary shopping list, it’s good, if not, it’s bad. I can already picture them calling masterpieces like The Brothers Karamazov or Moby Dick "badly written" or "overrated" because of Zosima’s life story or the cetology chapters. It's usually a meme to say "read a book" to dismiss ambitious video games, but here it's the opposite: read a book to realize that moment to moment emotion is an unreliable metric and that hermeneutics is what actually matters. Those comments have zero critical value.
>>745099841One of my fav game composers
>>745101628He’s still around and is probably in here. The original Xenoshitter died from the coof but seems to have had an acolyte
>>745101142This was kinda my thoughts going through it as well. In the end some more cool / interesting stuff does happen but it never all comes together cohesively and it's riddled with pacing issues. Rico is also a dogshit character who was just kind of forgotten about very quickly as you pointed out.
>>745101986Video games have not earned the right to be truly critically analyzed.
>>745103096You have not earned the right to criticize
>>745042123>Its just a turn based jrpg with mechas that follow kung fu moves and you fight Le God at the endsounds kino, you just sold me on the game
>>745103269
>>745103096Xenogears is not a video game. It’s shit in the form of a video game
Anything with haters this dedicated HAS to be good
why are RPG games even a big thing? They are fun at first but I kind of contemplate if life was better long before all these games. Did modernity take away all magic of life and we argue about these made up story games cause we sadly have nothing exciting about life anymore? Atleast you could say early pokemon was a real life thing or skyrim was the last big real life thing considering the release hype.>bringing up booksand what's the point of this? Moby dick is a good book but why don't we celebrate our own era of writers more? Is there no adventure or charm to this era?
>>745033096So I've haven't played xenogears but reading through this chaotic thread I have to know if this is all just schizos arguing with each other or are there genuinely ideas worth discussing? It seems compelling enough to debate about
>>745104678Zeboim could have been better. How this was to originally to be Chrono Trigger 2 is interesting as well. Let alone a treatment for FF7.
>>745104242>Is there no adventure or charm to this era?NoWhere the fuck have you been?
>>745097513Yeah, it's a fairly common anime girl design. Yuna from Megaman Legends and Mallow from pokemon are good examples. There's also a bunch in Fire Emblem, including Fortune's Weave.
>>745104678It's The Brothers Karamazov + Childhood's End + 2001: A Space Odyssey + Thus Spoke Zarathustra + G Gundam.
>>745042123>with mechas that follow kung fu moves and you fight Le God at the end
>>745105071>>745105036Once upon a time kung fu robots killing gods was the whole appeal of animeNow it's all le sad incel bois gooning just like me fr fr
>>745105036Thus becoming a crock of shit worse than dysentery
>>745105268well yeah, gods got sick of getting their shit kicked in by anime teenagers, so they started giving the anime teenagers "cheat skills" and siccing them on other worlds for the god's amusement. Genuinely a really clever move by the gods to turn their greatest enemies into entertainment.
>>745104007Yeah that's video games in general lmaoThey are literal toys lmao
It kind of feels like Krelian just comes out of nowhere I still don’t fully get what his deal is and what he was going on about when he looked at Elly’s DNA and saw an oroborus ring or somethingHe kind of just replaces Ramsus as the big Solarian target without any easing into it
>>745106908Citans instance in that era.
>>745105071Fucking kino
>>745098782>I’m starting to think that shmup tranny is posting here.He is. Him and the vinniesfag are shitposting like crazy today.Fuck. I hate resident schizos.
>>745106908Krelian feels too out of nowhere until he doesn't, after some flashbacks and characters acknowledging his history. My only problem is his name sounds more like a place than a person, like an alien ship or something.
>>745107937It's a translation error, in Japanese it's called Karellen, like Takahashi's favorite character in a novel by Arthur Clarke
What's with the sudden increase in schizos that just hate a game with reasons like "it's shit" "i hate it" "it's bad" "it's the worst game ever"then you ask them to elaborate and they just spew out schizo babble
>>745047924>And some of the best parts.That's the problem. Disc 2 has a bunch of stuff that WOULD have been the best part but it's diluted by the fact that you see it all get skimmed quickly in VN format instead of having it happen as you actually play the game. Seeing the Yggdrasil turn into a giant Gear naturally would have been pure kino but instead you're given a summary and then a tacked on boss fight which makes it feel unsatisfying.>>745047924Absolutely retarded thing to say because it would have been more than 1/8th of the game if it was actually finished since several dungeons were blatantly cut out, the storytelling would have been longer and that "1/8th" is also the climax of the fucking game which is really important.
>>745108240>It's 1/8th of the overall game.Meant to quote that instead of the post number again
Even Xenogears now has a dedicated schizo that makes it their life goal to hate it?What the fuck is going on
>>745033096i would agree if it were a full game, instead of that piece of shit disc 2 they gave us.
>>745108240I agree about the Yggdrasil scene, but the whole section on the S o ylent system and the mutation is already perfect as it is. Diluting that scene with 3 hours of random encounters with Wels would have only ruined the tension
>>745106908yeah he's not prominent in the story early enough for the player to form an emotionally distaste for.He doesn't directly hurt the player cast the same way Ramsus does or Hammer through Elly's motherDisc 2's smash cut mess explaining his background never gets a chance to breathe, it's alot to process
>>745033497Disc 2 is unironically better and I'm tired of pretending it's not
>>745108040That rolls off a lot better
>>745108051>sudden increaseSince what? 20 years ago, newbie?>>745108240Not just that, the 1/8 we get would be longer than disc 1 if it was allowed to have done everything they wanted.
>>745109046Aside from story, what makes disc 2 better? Because I have a hard time seeing it.
>>7451090462 has higher highs but lower lows
>>745079938Nope and I'm still waiting for the proper thread so I can complain.
>>745108040Satan?
>>745111173no filler, fewer random battles. just plot and boss fights.
>>745033096I probably wouldn't call it the "best game" ever made. But I would might consider one of the most interesting games ever made.The ending actually made me finally understand Kants arguments in "on the Metaphysics of Man"
>>745115215what do you mean by this
>>745115272The "game" part of the game isn't really all that great. Where it boils down to sort of spamming the same sequence of attacks over and over again, with a very high frequency encounter rate. But the structure of the story, and the contents are so clearly made by someone / people who had read some philosophy and psychology and wanted to write a story about those concepts, that the resulting story is able to borrow a lot of depth from those topics. If you can't explain the concepts of Id, Ego, Superego and Metaphysics I really don't think you have any idea of what they were intending to convey with the ending of the story. Like it's very in your face about it; but most people probably just think "oh those are those Freudian concept things right" without really understanding what they actually are, and probably couldn't explain to you why there is a character literally named Id in the story. The game is interesting because you can think about the concepts in the game, since they are much larger than the game's story itself. Most people don't have the perquisite context to really understand what they were intending to do; which is why I imagine this draft of the story was canned for the original FF7. General audience are just not going to understand what they were going for.
>>745115779I was wondering what you meant by the Kant thing specifically since I don't remember the ending impacting me in any way.I think I know enough Freud to get what Id represented anyway.
>>745116209NTA but the ending dramatizes Kant's third antinomy. Reason cannot arbitrate between determinism and free will, and indeed, in the ending, both paths are recognized. Krelian attains two wings on his own, Fei/Elly together, both complete their own journey without the work refuting either one
>>745116209Kant talks about a "realm of pure logic and reason" in the essay. Which never really clicked for me. When Xenogears talks about "There is always a man, and always a women" in disc 2 I was initially confused. Where these clones? Reincarantions? Is this time traveling? etc...But the more I thought about it the more I realized that it was talking about how the universe / existence is organized in a such a way that eventually there will always be a "Fei" and always be an "Elly". There was never any reincarnations, or time traveling or cloning etc.. They are ''different people' in a biological sense, but are the 'same people' in a metaphysical one.The patterns in the universe which produce 'everything' is sort of what Kant is trying to get at when he talks about this "realm of pure logic and reason", it's not a "separate realm", he is talking about a aspect, or extra dimension to reality, which results in the production of everything within it. In some sense 'the rules that govern everything in existence'. These "rules" are what produced 'Fei' and 'Elly'.
>>745047450>>745033096I don't want to play either of these but I'm curious about the stories
Are any of the romhacks worth checking out?
timelinexenosaga->xenogears->xenoblade
>>745117617the Perfect Works build, if you want the full jewish experience.
zeboim is fucking awesome, i cant believe this is a hidden, missable content what a vibe exploring a ruined civilizationgreat elevator pitch of world buildingreminds me of chrono cross with chronopolis or custom robo with the outside world
>>745034008It's just a heavy handed mecha melodrama buried beneath a kitchen sink of surface level Jungian psychology, philosophical posturing, and aestheticized Jewish mysticism. This kitchen sink style of writing is standard fare for Japanese media, so it is no surprise that it attracted a niche fanbase of weeb pseuds who have never read actual literature in their lives.
>>745115417>MOM SAID YOU HAVE TO LET ME PLAY GEARS WITH YOU
>>745117413Congrats, you're a modern gaming fan.>>745117661I've never heard anything good about Saga's anime.
>>745041916>and some surface level psychoanalysis namedropping that somehow doesn't even get schizophrenia right and has more surface level platitudes about Jung's already questionable theories.True. One of the characters is literally just named ""Id"" who is portrayed as a basic bitch edgelord murderhobo split personality that amounts to nothing more than a plot device, showing the writer lacked conceptual understanding of what he was talking about. Stripped of the shallow window dressing, it's a pretty generic JRPG running the same tired "kill God with the power of love and friendship" shtick.>Nb4 pedantic faggotsyes, Deus isn't technically a God, but thematically it functions as the exact same thing.
>>745118492I love Zeboim's atmosphere and it's great that the simple spooky sound is its main theme song.
Is Deltarune the only game as deep as Xenogears?
>>745033797>>745034008/v/ only pulls out dustoffski when they want to sound smart. It's the only writer name they know other than JKR.
>>745120640>but thematically it functions as the exact same thing.It literally doesn't, Har is the God stand-in and Deus is the demiurge.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa_UiTwZTRY
>>745120885the music ( or lack there of ) really adds to it, just simple, unnerving ambience as you scrap together the pieces of what happened to this destroyed civilizationif only there was more to it
>>745120953No that's Starfield
>>745121376Holy k*no...
>>745121328It's so comfy
>the Zeboackrooms
>>745033096First half was great, but the second half was… weirdly unfinished.
>>745121082>Completely ignores the point to showcase their knowledge of how "le demuirge isn't actually GOD"Everytime. why are Xenofags so pedantic? It must be autism.
>>745096793>6 years oldthat aged remarkably well, this might have been made yesterday.
>>745120297>>745120640>>745121021Very good arguments, I'm impressed
>>745121968You're blaming me for your own misuse of terms. "JRPG le kill gawd" is the normalfag understanding of the genre, the final enemy is almost always the demiurge of each respective game. Probably one of the few times it isn't is FF9 where you do fight a god, only barely driving him back because he's actually eternal.
Im this anon who is playing the game for the first time >>745054943 I just rescued margie and got back to the yggdrasil, the game does get really good eventually. I love the ramsus fight and the lore drop he tells
>>745121317why is the dude piloting the spaceship from the intro in that anime
>>745120953Deltatroon is about as deep as your post gender surgery scar.
>>745033096Even if you enjoy the story the game is not fun to play at all. I'll take a fun jrpg like Legend of Legaia or Legend of Dragoon over this anyday since they are fun even if the stories are kinda shit.
>>745116821This is like saying you need to be an astrophysicist to enjoy Project Hail Mary or Interstella
>>745101575That's only because 2nd CD got the treatment it got. If you ever wondered why you felt like you need to do side grinding just to get your elemental Deathblows up to speed then it's only because you were robbed of:> Solo Fei dungeon after he gets Weltall 2> Elly/Emeralda dungeon where they explore Mass Driver> Rico dungeon where they explore Kislev central structure (this is where he'd get his origins story most likely).> Onions System dungeon> Mahanon pre-Deus transformation> Search for Fei segment> Likely playable segments of Krelian, Lacan, Sophia> Anima relics dungeons for omingears: Seibzehn and Crescens And god knows what else we were robbed off.
>>745125296Apperantly if you tyle S o y l e n t on this board it turns it into Onions. Curious.
Krellian is literally me
I thing I've always loved about Xenogears is all the small moments where it's just Fei and Elly together, separated from the rest of the cast. So many JRPGs are just the entire party doing everything together like Xenoblade 3 or Persona,all thinking the same way and finishing each other's sentences like they're a single person. They stop feeling like individuals and just parts of the "gang" so lonely losers can feel like they're part of a friend group. I hate it.
>>745091850Because modern slop is just that unappealing.
>>745033096>censorshipDidn't buy it on Wii U even though I had one and wanted it at the time, still censored on rerelease, so I didn't buy it then, either. Maybe I'll look into a decensorship mod or wait for a decomp/recomp.
>>745125762My bad, on inspection that's not the Xenoblade Chronicles X logo. Xenogears is indeed a top tier game, probably the best of its generation along with Grandia and FF8, I wish the creator got to make the other episodes he had in mind too.
>>745125325I remember when /ck/ still had that filter it was hilarious
>>745069659Bakthin's view on polyphony is beyond shaky you dumb retard. Dostoyevsky can barely be considered that way depending on where you draw the line. There are clear cuts messages in every one of his novels, they are plain to see and characters having different opinions and being mouthpieces for different philosophical and political stances doesn't make the novel philosophically neutral. And if polyphonic simply means having characters expressing views that are not outright dismissed didactically then yes you'll find billions of similar examples.The writing IS poor, everything about Xenogears is the most surface level shit dipped deep in French Theory stench, Takahashi is a dilettante and it shows. The Divine Comedy isn't encyclopedic, it's not monologic holy shit would you stop with these anachronisms? It's a symbolic poem from the middle ages where everything was steeped in faith and traditional teaching, The Esoterism of Dante explains why it's no work of literature but a doctrinal text first and foremost, treating it like any other work and applying modern categories to it is beyond preposterous.There is no substance to Xenogears, it's a japanese work applying a Judeo-Christian coat of paint over basic postmodern philosophy, any weeb from this board trying to write a story steeped in Shintoism learned through textbooks and youtube videos would have achieved a similar result
>>745033096Is it really? I bet you're going to say the story is absolutely extraordinary while mentioning absolutely fucking nothing about gameplay.
