>>745134060
meds

>>745134172
No meds for me, I'm not a zoomer that's used to being medicated from a young age

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>>745134060
>characters are now obvious popular archetypes and fetishes that devs know get traction online
>implying this wasnt a thing from the get go already

>>745134574
Ah yes the huge "grotesque flower with giant tits" online fandom of the 90s, I remember it well

>>745134060
>There's a certain joy in playing a game and not having to think "I know this mechanic from X" or "this character looks like this because Y gets a lot of fanart" every 10 seconds
I don't have to think that when I'm playing modern games as a matter of course. The idea that games were perfect original shining beacons at any point in the industry is laughable. Dragon Quest and Zelda both stem from Wizardry and Ultima. Do you "have to" think about how virtually nobody was doing top down adventure games in Japan until they started copying those specific games? No, retard. It was only your ignorance that let you think games were better than this. Miyamoto lied to you, games were never original.

>>745134896
>I don't have to think that when I'm playing modern games as a matter of course.
You're either underage or low IQ
>The idea that games were perfect original shining beacons at any point in the industry is laughable
No one said this, work on your reading comprehension

>>745134657
I mean the furry fandom was fucking massive in the 90s and 00s. the first furry porn I ever saw was Renamon and Gardevoir (on accident I swear) and I dont think they ever stopped jerking to those things. but that was even late there was like furcadia and furry porn fandoms online back a decade before that

>>745135031
>you're either underage or low IQ if you don't buy into the demoralizing sludge about how specifically the newest era is the complete death of artistry and originality
Retard. You have a hateboner for some class of indie games that you believe are particularly derivative and are looking for an excuse to push it.
>No one said this
You claimed that "characters used to just be whatever the devs thought was cool".
Nothing is "just cool", everything the devs think is cool is for a reason even if the devs themselves don't know it. Many of the reasons are "I saw this in another piece of media, and I think it fits ours and we can do it too".

Oh yeah I have proof. Rat 1988 and the guy just kept doing this for years.

https://youtu.be/CNCTvXpXtMw

>>745135280
>>You claimed that "characters used to just be whatever the devs thought was cool".
>Nothing is "just cool", everything the devs think is cool is for a reason even if the devs themselves don't know it. Many of the reasons are "I saw this in another piece of media, and I think it fits ours and we can do it too".
Keep rereading the OP until you get what it's about

>>745135326
No I'm just going to not read it and look up 90s furry porn for research.

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>>745135253
>>745135307
Shit used to be personal and clandestine with plausible deniability, whereas something like pic related would've never existed without e.g. Diives' animations that dominated social media

>diapershitting failennial banjofag is still mentally ill

>>745135326
You think that you "didn't have to" pay attention to a game's inspirations and design precursors back in the day but "have to" now. You think that games are now designed by stapling together popular stuff, not because devs LIKE all that popular stuff, but because you think it's solely an attempt to make more money.
I am telling you that this is all complete horseshit and you're massively overplaying the supposed creativity of the pre-modern era. Bubsy happened because a dev was trying to specifically recapture Sonic. Sonic happened because a dev was specifically trying to recapture the sensation of rushing 1-1 and 1-2 in super Mario bros.

>>745135440
>it had plausible deniability!
Only because the idea that there was a subculture that masturbated to cartoon anthropomorphic animals hadn't yet fully penetrated the mainstream. The devs making sexy animals in 90s games were doing it because they liked making sexy shit, had tastes formed from the sexy media they'd seen and put it into play in their own game, even if it happened to be about animals, because sexy was sexy and that's just fun. They picked Goldeen over Magikarp in the first smash game because they thought Goldeen's voice was sexy!

>>745135551
The point is that you could be blissfully ignorant to the dev's inspirations since there wasn't a shared global pool of discussion, that meant the devs were forced to seek out personal interests, and that you likely weren't going to come across those personal interests in your daily life

Now devs get inspired from that global pool, and you've likely seen it already even if you don't have interest in it because it's shared and global

>>745135653
>there was a subculture that masturbated to cartoon anthropomorphic animals hadn't yet fully penetrated the mainstream
That's the distinction that makes old games feel better, you got it

>>745134060
>>mechanics are now a grab bag of whatever the best selling games are doing with no regard for how they come together
that was always the case back then and now. old games just feel original because you haven't played a lot of the old ones.

descent and turok took direct inspiration from doom

>>745135727
You could be ignorant to the dev's inspirations, but I don't think that was ever "blissful". I love being able to get on the same page as the dev, I love being able to trace where ideas come from, and if there's anything I've learned playing so many old and new games, it's that all ideas come from somewhere. I think the proliferation of ideas was DIFFERENT before the internet really exploded, but the idea that it was directly better and you know exactly why is kinda asinine.

>>745135817
>knowing that there's a group of people who masturbate to specifically this makes the game itself feel worse
Wow, massive skill issue, lmao.

>>745134060
>mechanics are now a grab bag of whatever the best selling games are doing with no regard for how they come together
Banjo-Kazooie was originally just a carbon copy of Crash Bandicoot before Rare saw SM64. Then they copied SM64.
>stories and premises are now a checklist of popular tropes from TV Tropes
Conker's Bad Fur Day was turned into a series of TV and movie parodies after the team noticed the Banjo team was making a SM64 clone and kicking their asses at it.

>>745134574
Conker was a really well done movie parody game, I bet if a Modern Conker game were made it would parody memes and movies made in the 2000s, 2010s and 2020s.

https://youtu.be/TqO-qJnLt9M

>>745135727
What's happened is that you're more aware of their interests, not that they're copying new influencers. If anything devs actively avoid those new influences nowadays to appear original. That's what Sam Maggs did with Rivet of rachet and clank.
>>745135440
Nothing wrong with this, go play AAA games of you want safe non-sexy designs

>>745136235
You fundamentally don't understand what the thread is about

>>745134060
Banjo was never good

>>745136405
It's about your claim that games feel better when you can pretend a dev came up with something out of nowhere and you can't do that as easily with modern games as old games.
You're being informed, repeatedly, that what you're holding against new games is the fact that you have baseline gaming knowledge, not something different about them.

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>>745136405
it looks innovative to you know more about new stuff than you do with old stuff, the same stuff existed back then

>>745136482
>>745136621
Nope, social media literally didn't exist

>>745136928
>no I wasn't saying the devs were more original I was just saying they weren't copying specifically from social media and instead from whatever else they had
That is the same amount unoriginal. What you object to has nothing to do with originality. You want an excuse for why you're right to turn up your nose at games made after a certain arbitrary year.

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>>745135440
>plausible deniability

HAHAHAHAH YOU NEED TO BE EUTHANIZED IF YOU THINK THERE IS PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY HERE

>>745137128
Oh fuck those bastards on youtube took art 1992 down.

>>745134060
>mechanics are now a grab bag of whatever the best selling games are doing with no regard for how they come together
Nintendo sadly does this now with the forced open area in Prime 4 and both Donkey Kong and Pokemon having tacked on roguelite DLCs

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Is this bait to get me to post porn or is a retarded schizophrenic brown zoomer

>>745136928
The internet existed. Conventions existed. Social spaces for fanbases of these kinds of things existed. Furries and the furry art community existed both online and offline already, and many artists in the animation and game industry were involved with it. For example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3DiKOLNW0M
This is stuff that always existed, you just weren't acutely aware of it back then because you weren't online yet. It seems different now mainly because popular culture today is different from how it was back then. Artists were still appealing to trends, the trends were just different because it was a different time.

>>745137318
Probably a retarded schizophrenic brown zoomer, but nobody will say no if you want to post some classics.

>>745134574
"Young men like big boobs and so do we" is a lot less analytical and human than trying to exploit social media trends

>>745137470
Sybil is not trying to exploit social media trends. Sybil is the creator just trying to make what they find sexy. You're flipping your lid because someone who grew up in the era of the internet found stuff from the internet sexy.

how is it allowed to rape OP so hard in the open like this? let him rest a little jesus

>>745134172
>I have no argument for how fucking gay everything is now

Fuck you faggot

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>>745137470
The only reason that isn't a trend in videogames is because the Jews pay them to not have sexy big tittied women

>>745137547
>everything is... just gay now! Because people like things they saw on social media and not things they saw on TV!
Meds.

>>745137547
why do you think about fucking faggots so much though

take your gay meds

>>745137602
This. If companies like Black Rock and Sweet Baby didn't exist, every video game would be as lewd as mobile phone gacha games now.

>>745137547
>I have no arguement why Art (1992) isnt BLATANT FURRY PORN and I'm just going to ignore it

I'm still here bitch fight me on rat porn

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>>745134060
>>characters just used to be characters, stuff the devs thought was cool
>>characters are now obvious popular archetypes


HOW DO YOU DO FELLOW KIDS
IM SONIC THE HEDGEHOG I WEAR NIGGA SNEAKERS JUST LIKE YOU FR FR

>>745134060
banjo was never good

>>745137818
Also supposedly directly inspired by MJ, wasn't he?

>>745137470
i don't understand what makes you think that the pseudoregalia dev was trying to exploit social media trends
we're talking about the guy that's been doing the same curvy women schtick and gamejams for years with literally no ""success"" up until pseudoregalia
who, mind you, did not even try to nor seems to plan to capitalize on the success of that game by making a sequel or anything like that and seems to only acknowledge its existence because people endlessly pester him about it
the nigger quite literally just makes games as a hobby and his hit game didn't even change that

>>745137885
Yes. His shoes are even directly taken from some Christmas performance MJ did one time.

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>>745134060
>>stories and premises are now a checklist of popular tropes


Yeah fuck Donkey Kong it's so derivative of Popeye and King Kong.

>>745137939
But he made a furry character in the age of social media! You get into furries on social media! That means he was inspired by social media and that's bad!!!
>why is being inspired by social media bad but not being inspired by TV
Dunno, lol

>>745137128
Which game is this

>>745138112
The point being made is that furries existed and were absolutely drawing porn at the time. "Plausible deniability" is for your corporate betters and the government, not for consumers, fucking moral guardian wannabe.

>>745138207
>not from a game
Then why did you post it nigger

>>745138260
Because OP is arguing that furry designs from before social media are somehow fundamentally different from those after, and furry designs that predate social media disprove that.

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>>745138260
not like it's hard to find videogame examples from the 90s

>>745138207
Nobody is saying furries didn't exist, the argument is that you posted random furry art in a videogame thread like it proves anything about game design.

Find actual games from the era doing the same thing or shut up, this isn't /trash/.

>>745138372
Learn to read

>>745138447
Not nearly as blatant

>>745138501
she's literally nude, as curvy if not more, and striking ridiculous sexy poses on every frame
HOW is it less blatant, are you for real?

>>745138495
>Nobody is saying furries didn't exist,
They're saying that furry designs were somehow fundamentally different before social media, that you can "just tell", when in fact the only thing you can "just tell" is that the designs weren't made in the same cultural era.
>>745138501
>doesn't count!!!!
Lmao, it absolutely does.

>>745138587
These faggots >>745137128 are having sex

>>745138875
Once again, plausible deniability is for your superiors, not for the people you want to consume your media. Making a curvy girl that strikes sexy poses and walks around in the nude doesn't have "plausible deniability" to any consumer who's not being almost deliberately ignorant.

>>745138875
and? the comparison was to >>745135440, not to that

>>745138995
No it wasn't

>>745139051
Yes it was. OP was trying to imply that Sybil could only come about because someone was cynically stapling together social media porn tropes. OP has yet to explain how Sybil can be separated from classic sexy furry characters other than "made more recently", which is not enough to make statements of quality. OP seems to be implying that social media is responsible for a fundamental shift in all human thought that has rendered all media incapable of something it once had.

>>745139051
ok? even if it wasn't, both examples prove that there was no plausible deniability to furry shit back then either, one's just art and the other is videogame sprites, both far more blatant than sybil

>>745139206
It's very simple
>Belladona is a female demon that can transform into a cat
>she's just one of many bosses in the game
>the design is basically just a werecat
>you can only see it as a small sprite
>there is plausible deniability in saying that the cat has to look female
>there is no way of ever confirming what the devs used as inspiration or jacked off to

>Candy Kong or Berri are the standard cheerleader bimbo trope love interests
>they're side characters in their games
>their faces are grotesque and malformed
>you only see them a couple of times in the games
>there is plausible deniability in saying they're meant to be absurd and humorous parodies of cheerleder gf characters with how much they stand out against the other characters
>there is no way of ever confirming what the devs actually intended or jacked off to

>Sybil is an internet furry OC waifu tier character
>she's the protagonist that you'll be looking at the whole game
>the design is an obvious mishmash of popular internet tropes from the flat anime face, shirt vest, uncovered crotch, huge thighs, hock legs
>this sort of design was extensively used by porn artists like Diives whose art you'd have a hard time avoiding online due to how social media works
>there is no plausible deniability since there's nothing you can justify her as except fap fuel
>it would be trivially easy to confirm what the dev liked, saved, shared on his social media before the game, and what sort of fanart he promoted after the game

The systems that make you go "I know why the dev did this" simply did not exist back then, someone ITT was implying that "Sonic was based on Michael Jackson" was the same thing but I can personally guarantee zero kids thought about Michael Jackson while playing Sonic games

The discussion got derailed into fur talk but this sort of thinking permeates every single aspect of games now

>>745140483
So you don't actually have any material differences in how the designs are, what you have is knowledge of design now that you didn't have when you first saw the other examples, and you dislike what this knowledge lets you infer. The ability to "confirm" what the devs were trying to accomplish with a design is 100000% immaterial, "plausible deniability" is meaningless to everyone but to the people they had to slip the designs past to get them published.
Sybil's design is the dev liking traits and deciding to put them into a design. You are objecting because you know where those traits come from. That isn't an objection to the traits themselves.
>I can personally guarantee zero kids thought about Michael Jackson while playing Sonic games
"Michael Jackson made the Sonic 3 soundtrack" was a persistent gaming rumor for 20 fucking years. He was absolutely on kids' minds when they played Sonic.

>>745134060
>1
Still is
>2
This has never changed, your pic is of Banjo, who only exists because mascots were the trend back then
Mascot characters got spammed from the 90s - early 00s because Sonic happened and was insanely popular with stealing the spotlight from Mario so everyone wanted a cut from the pie to have their own Mario killer
>3 + 4
Ah yes the unpredictable stories of
>bad guy does bad thing
>hero stops him and saves the day
Bowser kidnaps Peach, Mario saves her and beats up Bowser
Eggman kidnaps little animals, Sonic saves them and beats up Eggman
Gruntilda kidnaps Tooty, Banjo saves her and beats up the witch

Mario starts in a nature level and ends in a lava level
Banjo starts in a nature level and ends in a lava level
Sonic starts in a nature level and ends in an industrial level with nature being polluted
Crash starts in a nature level and ends in an industrial level with nature being polluted

The plot beats are very basic and predictable which is intentional because platformers back then were gameplay first focused.
Story only started to become more of a focus in 00s platformers, not 90s ones like Banjo
>5 + 6
Beyond retarded, the entire reason genres get made is enough people make the same kind of game that people naturally classsify it under an umbrella term
If these games were never mechanically similar in the first place, then the genre name wouldn't exist, when people hear "3D platformer" there's an expectation of what that'll play like based on the history of games made, and the 90s-00s was when the genre was cemented with how many mascot platformers were made
>7
This reads like someone who wasn't both alive and old enough back then to experience it, you can only look at things from your modern pov, as you have no reference point to how things used to be which's why you have such a severe misunderstanding

>>745134060
Oh please.
Nobody created characters "they thought were cool". Characters back in the day were cynically made because the sphere of what people are willing to accept in media is very small so you have to make something marketable first and foremost.
Social media just changed the way that content marketing works and increased the amount of available information.

>>745141054
Learn to read nigga I don't know what else to tell you

>>745142874
No nigger, you're the one who needs to learn to read.
Every era of media is defined by people putting together the shit they like from, and want to make based on, other media. Homer's Odyssey was a bunch of local authors throwing in an appearance from or play on their favorite mythical creature/place/event/etc. as they retold the story.
>but it's different when I can TELL what they're pulling from!
You have yet to explain how.
>ugh I don't actually mean it's different when I can tell, I just mean I think they were inspired by social media rather than running into these topics "naturally" (lol) in their "real life" (lol) so it shouldn't be part of their creative output!
That is the bad kind of autism. Barely half a step removed from arguments like "nobody who likes playing games should make games". You aren't one of those faggots, are you?
>muh creative incest
A common refuge of someone learning that "nothing new under the sun" applies to their favorites too. There are only seven stories in total, did you know that?
>NOOOOO TRENDS WEREN'T REAL WHEN I WAS GROWING UP AIEEEEEEE MY FAVORITE MEDIA IS CREATIVELY PUUUUUUUUREEEEE
No, it is not. Faggot. There is no such thing.

>>745134060
A funny thing about furry art is that you can tell just how much of a cumbrained faggot the artist is just from the size of the eyebrows. Like with everything else, they're unable to control themselves and never even try to design a character for people that don't want a mouthful of weasel dick.

>>745143214
eyebrows? wat

>>745143406
If you ever see someone imply some random body part is sexual it's usually an accidental self tell.

>>745143000
All of this could've been avoided if you would just read

>>745143549
Read what? More seething from a guy who's just now realizing that mascot platformers were also a "cynical trend"?

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>>745143528
Except, as OP claims, we literally have the means to easily confirm it these days

This devs' character design is heavily influenced by popular furry artists like jollyjack, and the dev himself is quite vocal about his "interests" online, and since it's an indie dev making smallish games there isn't even a way to encounter them without having to deal with their social media profiles, unlike before where you would get games in a game store without ever having to learn anything about the devs

but is the game good

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There's nothing more funny than seeing furfags try to claim that their shitty designs are not fetish material designed for their fried brains and that people who like animals because they are silly or good moral characters are as degenerate as they are. >>745135440's malformed abomination is just a bad design simply because it has fuck all to do with the game's story.
Take a look at what I have attached. This is what a hero should look like: strong to defend the weak, proud to be who he is, and his skin and attire are as colorful as his personality. He is a dragon because dragons are awesome and his design is based on something naturally occurring but exaggerated into the fantastical. Tell me, how many retard goats have you seen with a subdivided cube for a head? None. You know why? Because it is an abomination, a reflection of the abomination of a soul its artist unfortunately possesses.

>>745144061
Yeah I don't see the problem here. Is it because I don't care about "cumbrains"? Because I stopped caring about that retarded buzzword and everyone who used it back when it was relevant. If you make an OK game and I don't have to be hardcore into furry porn to find the aesthetic anything but disgusting, then I don't give a shit.
>but you'd have to be-
Shut the fuck up, projecting faggot.

>>745144350
OP's point stands

>>745144316
Your game will never come out and never be interesting to anyone, faggotron.
>animals are silly and good moral characters
LMAO

>>745144382
OP's "point" is that Banjo was not inspired by anything and was not cynical in any capacity.
The idea of a brown bear as a slow, laid back hick type can be traced back before Banjo. And mascot platformers were quite literally just the trend. Banjo didn't come out of nowhere in any capacity. OP is a fucking retard who might have valid complaints if he didn't try to make complaints about the state of the whole industry.

>>745144518
>>OP's "point" is that Banjo was not inspired by anything and was not cynical in any capacity.
Where the fuck did you get that from

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>>745144415
Seethe and cry to your mods all you want, furfag, but you know it's the truth. By the way, we got multiplayer now for that game that will "never be interesting to anyone" and it's fun.

i like to have fun with my friends and draw and color

>>745144575
>>characters just used to be characters, stuff the devs thought was cool
>>game stories and premises were full of unpredictable idiosyncrasies
>posted alongside a picture of Banjo
Did we read the same fucking OP?

>>745144702
Yes, I have no idea how you got this >>745144518 from that

>>745144787
>characters used to "just be characters"
>now they're "cynical collections of tropes"
>banjo is definitively formed from pre-existing tropes the creators thought would work together and is not "just a character"

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>>745138447
Good kitty.

>>745144840
Again, what seems to be the problem

>>745134172
>thought-terminating drivel

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>>745134060
>>characters are now obvious popular archetypes and fetishes that devs know get traction online
LMAO.
Mind you, they had to tone her down from this and she STILL got removed from Crash 2 onwards.

>>745145009
see >>745140483

>>745144951
Banjo is not "just a character". Banjo is as much formed from tropes as any modern character you could complain about.

>>745145062
>"it's different if I could tell it was supposed to be sexy when it first came out"
Not an argument. Plausible deniability is not for the sake of consumers.

>>745145145
banjo was literally just a bear in a go-kart

>>745145197
The fact that its purpose is not for the consumers doesn't mean it has no benefits to the consumers, games are literally more enjoyable when they feel like windows into completely different worlds instead of being the same shit you see on social media every day repackaged into game format

>>745145293
They put him in DKR long after his concept had been figured out. The game that became Banjo started work on the SNES, dude.

>>745135253
The word 'furry' wasn't used in a context other than depicting animal hair before 2000. That's a fact.

>>745145394
It has no benefits to the consumers unless the consumers are drooling retards. Anyone who ever saw media as "windows into completely different worlds" and felt that this was cut into by knowing things about its creators and their mindset were always relying on self-inflicted delusion to engage with media when they really didn't need to. Acknowledging the craft is fun, too. Many of Bugs Bunny's most famous bits are contemporary cultural references that he outlived.

>>745145546
Underage

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>>745140483
>The systems that make you go "I know why the dev did this" simply did not exist back then
Yes it fucking did, again with my Tawna example, she was removed because someone at Universal saw that she WAS a bombshell, and deemed it inappropriate to include in other games. And these early designs of Coco showed that Zembillas was gonna try and work around that AGAIN before he ultimately ended on making her cuter and shorter.
In the end, there's nothin wrong with devs wanting to put what THEY like in the games, it's up to the customers (using consumer is corpo talk) to decide "Hey, I may/may not check this out".

>>745136235
Did you really just credit Sam Maggs with trying to be "original" with Rivet's design? The "LOMBAX TITTIES" bitch? The same bitch who clutched her pearls when someone was annoying her in GTA Online and likened it to sexual assault? Fuck off.

>>745145628
If you've been engaging with media your whole life with no ability or even attempt to account for the perspective of the creator as its own thing that can be separated from the world they're portraying, I pity you.

>>745145738
And you as a consumer had zero access to any of it, which is the whole point of the thread

>>745145846
If you've been engaging with media your whole life thinking that it's completely fine it's all just regurgitation of whatever was trending on global social media last week I pity you.

>>745145854
Having access to the inspirations doesn't make it any less enjoyable unless you were so autistic (derogatory) that your opinion is worthless anyway. That's the point.

>>745145923
>all games made ever since some arbitrary year are social media regurgitations because... because I can tell the inspirations exist now
Then all media from before that year was mass media regurgitations. See how that works? Whatever the cultural complex RIGHT NOW is, most of your ideas come from it one way or another.

>>745145948
This is wrong, if the inspirations are so obvious you spend every five seconds going "this is only here because of X, this is only here because of Y" then the media is objectively less enjoyable than something that feels original that you can immerse yourself into as its own thing

>>745134060
Yeah I like Sonic because he was cool in 1992. Nowadays, if I say I like Sonic, they think I like gay furry porn

>>745146023
Social media didn't exist before a certain point retard, I don't know how many times this needs to be repeated to you before you understand it

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>>745146036
>if the inspirations are so obvious you spend every five seconds going "this is only here because of X, this is only here because of Y"
You don't HAVE to anon, when I'm playing a Sonic game, I'm not asking myself "Huh, I wonder what hentai lead to the creation of Rouge the Bat". If something came out about, cool, I'm still gonna play and enjoy the game for what IT is.

>>745146108
Before social media people were pulling their ideas from whatever mass media they were exposed to. That's what I was saying.

>>745144061
>there isn't even a way to encounter them without having to deal with their social media profiles
What am I reading kek
Indies can be encountered in many different places like randomly browsing the steam store, talking to/seeing a friend playing a game, a random streamer playing/talking about a game, youtuber that covers indies, next fest, indie expos like SAGE etc

No shit you find out what that indie dev is doing if you specifically go onto his socials or save an image of his socials so you can easily remember what he does
You're making the willing choice to do that, if you literally just don't go on twitter then you won't see that shit. Someone who doesn't give a shit about twitter/bsky will never see those posts
This' the same logic as a cop telling a nigger not to run, then the nigger runs and gets shot and blames the cop
>we literally have the means to easily confirm it these days
Mascot games in the 90s-00s are no different, when Sonic first goes Super Sonic in Sonic 2 or you see the Sonic 3 special stages, it's obvious that's based on Dragonball Z.
You look at Crash, and it's obvious he's based on Looney Tunes and Warner Bros because the character designs reuse the same design principles, and the 90s had a resurgence in that style of cartoons thanks to the popularity of the Roger Rabbit movie
You look at Rayman, and it's obvious he's based on fairytales and french cartoons, because the creator is fucking french and there's fairytale creatures and themes all over the place which is common to see in EU media aimed for young audiences.
Conker? Look at Berri's design and oh wow she looks similar to Lola Bunny from the hit movie Space Jam, what a coincidence

>>745146216
Again you seem confused about the difference about ACTIVELY asking yourself that and PASSIVELY already having the knowledge because the creator didn't bother putting his own mark on the work to the point of unrecognizability

No one has ever looked at Sonic and thought "this is supposed to be Michael Jackson", almost everyone who has played Pseudoregalia can tell Sybil is meant to be the devs furfag OC he jacks off to

>>745146036
>you spend every five seconds going "this is only here because of X, this is only here because of Y"
I can never say that about anything I play. I've played plenty of modern indie games, I've played Pseudoregalia specifically, many parts of it aren't there because of one specific thing but because they're collections of concepts that existed across vaguely related genres.

>>745146301
>lola bunny's first appearance was in space jam
What the fuck

>>745146278
One way mass media with no live metrics or minute democratic algorithms

>>745137547
You didn’t post any arguments either just assumptions based on your retarded hate for unrelated things

>>745146343
>No one has ever looked at Sonic and thought "this is supposed to be Michael Jackson", almost everyone who has played Pseudoregalia can tell Sybil is meant to be the devs furfag OC he jacks off to
How are these things related to each other? Do you really think nobody thought someone on the dev team of SA2 was jacking it to Rouge? Or do you think it's different because she was "original"?
>but they had to ACTIVELY ask themselves that!
No they didn't, she has cleavage and jiggle physics in a franchise where most characters have 0 sexual characteristics, everyone immediately noticed she was hornier than the rest. You are complaining about complete fucking nonsense.
Are you trying to say Rouge has some core character design "essence" that Sybil just doesn't because YOU personally couldn't immediately tell someone who jerked off to that kind of stuff designed her? That is not any kind of objective metric.

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This entire thread is just you consuming media with less information and childhood innocence and then transitioning to being an adult with more knowledge.
Nobody in the world can just make whatever they want and characters have been understood as archetypes for thousands of years. Old media isn't really as pure as you think it is. For games they were maybe more pure, but that has more to do with the fact that games were a fledgling medium with an undefined subculture (so, no defined expectations as to what a game should be).
Everything commercial has to be cynical to a degree.

>>745146494
And? They still absorbed shit from the standardized mass media they and thousands of other people were exposed to at the same time and went on to make characters based on the standardized media they absorbed. Same deal as taking inspiration from stuff you happened to get exposed to by social media.

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>>745146343
>almost everyone who has played Pseudoregalia can tell Sybil is meant to be the devs furfag OC he jacks off to
Alright then, what if they swapped anon? What if Pseudoregalia came out in 1997 like the PS1 games it's emulating, what then? Does it still fall under being JUST a furfag OC?

>>745146709
It's just an autistic sperg who can't comprehend things that don't fit his viewpoint, not that deep

>>745134060
What the fuck is that unholy abortion on the bottom?

>>745146493
what did you think her first appearance was anon? genuine question

>>745147054
Nta, but if he didn't know Space Jam, the only other media appearance she had after it was Baby Looney Tunes lol, a six year stretch between the two.

>>745147225
Did she perhaps appear more readily in games, general Looney Tunes merch, something like that? I know lots of companies would go hog wild at the prospect of finally having a female peer to Bugs.

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>>745147505
Outside of Space Jam merch, she had a few comics as well. Game wise she was playable in Bugs Bunny & Lola Bunny: Operation Carrot Patch (GBC) and Looney Tunes Racing (GBC & PS1), and was the announcer for Space Race (also PS1). Then Baby happened and she started showing up more (was gonna be on Duck Dogers too, but got cut).

The development of Banjo-Kazooie was my special interest for a brief period of my childhood because I felt that Stop n Swop was an insanely fucking cool mechanic, felt robbed we didn't get it, and had to do the research on what it could possibly have been meant for myself. Thanks to this background familiarity with the development and concepts and how long they took to emerge and solidify, and the way several concepts formed during BK made their way into other Rare games of the time, I find the implication that Banjo-Kazooie emerged from nothing personally offensive. The creative process was anything but clean. So, please understand all of that when I say this:
OP is a turbofaggot who needs to suck a million cocks and die.

>>745134060
didn't read
otter sexo

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>>745148141
Looks like he stopped responding, so he's either given up or can't rebuttal anymore. Well, post cute girls till this gets nuked or let it die.

>>745147965
Nta but I feel Looney Tunes Racing (PS1) probably would've given the most exposure as a videogame if a kid somehow hadn't seen or even heard of space jam at that point given how huge it was
>Duck Dogers
Fuck I didn't know about that, are you telling me we were robbed from seeing Lola Bunny in a tight spacesuit
At least we got the martian queen...

>>745146763
And it wasn't instant two way social media which is the point of the thread

do you think OP will ever figure out that the reason he liked old things more is because he was an ignorant child back then

>>745149168
Shit absorbed from mass media is shit you didn't come up with yourself which is the point of this thread.
>oh but they used to put their own mark on it
Still do. You can't quantify how they don't without falling back on this lazy, lame attempt to appeal to purity, like I'm supposed to be mad about the presence of "degenerates" when 99% of society would consider you and me one regardless.

>>745146709
>>745149451
Moot point when you can play an old game right now and constantly be surprised with new stuff whose origin isn't instantly obvious

>>745149803
I can't. I know enough about games and media as a whole that when I run into something new I can immediately make connections. You pretending you can't is kind of embarrassing.

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>>745149027
>Fuck I didn't know about that, are you telling me we were robbed from seeing Lola Bunny in a tight spacesuit
Sadly yes.

>>745149803
the only reason it isn't "instantly obvious" to you is because one you're retarded, and two you weren't an adult that knew the media adults at that time based the things out off, it's knowledge 2 generations removed from you
if you sit a 5 yo to play pseudoregalia or w/e modern game they will have to same reaction of not knowing shit when it comes what the people who made the game took inspiration from, you know it as an adult now because you grew up with the same things someone like the pseudoregalia dev did

>>745134060
Except that game on the bottom literally never even released, so you're literally comparing Banjo-Kazooie to nothing.

>>745150103
PAIN
The animators of that show would've had a field day with her

>>745149962
>>745150131
Except devs were literally forced to seek out their own interests and gamble on their creations back then because an alternative didn't exist, whereas in the social media world anyone who participates in digital life is fed the same things by the algorithm and is instantly and passively aware of all the trends and avoids doing things that don't trend because they want to trend too

No matter how much you cry, piss, and cope about it, you can't change the fact that social media irreversibly altered how shit gets made

>>745150305
Zoomers don't know the image isn't the sole point of a thread because they would have to read the post text otherwise

>>745146978
a cancelled platformer by a furry. He posted a link to several test videos. Don't know if this will work.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDkSGJRJyVbXKyawFQG0u_6-ksa6iVWJM

>>745150475
You were not part of the crowd that immediately understood what the devs were referencing back in the day. But that crowd existed and you pretending they don't is insane. Do you think those people were "missing the point"? Were they supposed to hate the show/game/movie/etc. because they could identify what parts went into it? That crowd was the audience every creator hoped for. Watching knowledge of your reference get completely lost and replaced by your own creation within people who call themselves fans must be nightmarish.

>>745134060
Old games did have inspiration from other things. Solid Snake in Metal Gear was based off Kurt Russell from Escape from New York. Persona 3 is basically Atlus’s take on Evangelion.

>>745150938
Again, you needed to be part of the crowd, now anyone on social media is instantly aware of it, feel free to stop proving me right anytime

>>745150475
>nooo social media has just made people SO sensitive to trends that they NEVER do anything that isn't a trend
Or... you know what the trends are now and are mad about them because you're getting old.

>>745151089
>being aware of themes, ideas, and inspiration makes them bad because... because it does, okay?!
If everyone has the exact same shared cultural context then all media should be perfectly equal in concept and only suffer from execution. But that isn't the case.

>>745135440
>Diives' animations that dominated social media
Diives isn't that popular, nobody copies his style.

>>745151237
This is the first time he's tried to pay attention to an artist's inspirations before, be patient with him. He thinks because he's noticed a similarity in cultural DNA it must be a direct line between one and the other, that both couldn't possibly be inspired by the same thing.

>>745150475
i think you must be some manner of hyper sheltered retard because the internet is full of niche things that are not really too popular yet have extremely dedicated fans and small communities that much so much effort into it you'd think it's their job

>>745134060
>mass adoption of the internet and social media
This seemed to kill just about everything. It turned people into such insufferable faggots. It also made women even more awful than they already were.

>>745151912
Don't validate him, he doesn't think media was based on other media to any meaningful extent until social media.

>>745151985
No one said this, learn to read

>>745152028
>inspirations you get from stuff you find scrolling social media are... just different from every other place you can run into inspirations!
No.
>but that isn't what I said either
Then what do you actually think you're claiming? That there's something inherently wrong with finding inspiring media through the modern internet specifically and all other forms of finding inspiration were magically fine? How does that not sound retarded to you?
>but muh algorithm! too many people can get the same references! now nobody does anything except with the goal of trending!
Faggot retard.

>>745152280
It must be hard being illiterate on a primarily text board

>>745152656
OP is the one who said every game now makes most decisions based mostly on attempts to go trending, not me.

Traditional marketing is kind of dead outside of captive audience showcases like Summer Games Fest.
Sometimes games will be engineered at least in part to go viral, but compromises are made all the time in product development.

>>745152862
That's a fact though

>>745152960
>but they are! Every modern game makes every decision based solely on what will get them trending!
I agree with the spirit of what you're saying, especially in the context of AAA, but I know you believe in this literally, and especially apply it to indies, so you're wrong and retarded.
Maybe drop the hyperbole for even one post and I might trust you.
Pseudoregalia is a good game btw, easy 8/10, any implication that it's outright bad will make me discard your point as well. You're allowed to dislike it, not lie about it and gaming as a whole in an attempt to be "right".

>>745134060
You're 99% correct but /v/ is full of contrarian faggots so they're going to bitch about the 1%.

Also furfags yiff in hell.

>>745150475
>Except devs were literally forced to seek out their own interests and gamble on their creations
>passively aware of all the trends and avoids doing things that don't trend because they want to trend too
How retarded are you to say this, the modern day is not unique in being aware of what the current trends are

When something became popular in the 80s-00s, everyone knew about it because you'd hear about it: on TV, radio, billboard ads, merchandise, the internet, newspapers, and word of mouth.
Everyone knew what Star Wars was, same for Star Trek, Space Jam, etc.
Something becoming a trend back then was a bigger deal than now because it had way more cultural impact and lasted for years instead of being a flash in the pan like now until people move on to the next thing like that digital circus cartoon

Everyone knew who Sonic was, and publishers wanted their own Sonic to beat Mario, so that starts the trend for mascot characters being made
Nobody was making a "gamble" on making a mascot platformer in the 90s, it was a surefire way to gain money and establish yourself in the industry, which did happen like with Naughty Dog, Insomniac, and Ubisoft as examples
Just like how it wasn't a gamble to make an FPS game on PC when you see how extremely popular DOOM, Quake, and Half-Life were, and then that starts a trend of FPS games being made for PC

You know nothing about the history of games and the influence media and trends had on game devs during different eras

>>745153583
He's like 33% correct and /v/ is full of contrarian faggots like him who think he's 100% correct because they can name some games that they think are "just chasing trends"

>>745134060
>top, funny cartoon character.
>bottom, furry bait.
why is this so easy to spot and the norm for all scrimbros now n days... bubsy is doing the same shit.

>>745153583
He is not even mostly correct, just ignorant.
>>745150475
People never really gambled in that way because projects back then typically required outside financiers or producers that would make massive changes to their art to improve marketability. Social media just speeds this process up by allowing developers to engage directly with audiences and consumer tastes.
When it comes to indie games, we know what games sell (friendslop, incremental, horror, survival craft). If people really were entirely cynical, they would just make only those games. If you're making a genre that does not sell like a 2D or 3D platformer, you might as well do something fun and attention-grabbing to de-risk the project a little.

>>745154086
Because nobody who was attached enough to scrimblos to want to make more of them specifically wasn't also a furry. Simple as.

>>745134060
why are the colors always so washed out?

>>745152996
They don't have to actively make that decision, the stuff they're exposed to is basically entirely due to social media algorithms everyone else sees, as opposed to pre-social-media times when you had to make your own decisions and didn't have a constant objective measure of how successful things are

>>745154867
Initially began as a response to the death of CRTs and how little depth dark colors have compared to bright ones on modern display hardware.
Now has been exaggerated to the point of parody in many games.

>>745154915
>pre-social-media times when you had to make your own decisions and didn't have a constant objective measure of how successful things are
BAHAHAHAHA HOLY FUCKING SHIT
I'm sorry I can't keep this up anymore. You think devs weren't looking for any fucking way to pin down what "worked"? The desire to make something a "sure success" by attaching it to what you see as an already successful idea is ancient. You're complaining that social media makes it too easy when TV made it too easy as far as radio drama lovers were concerned, and radio made it too easy as far as play lovers were concerned, and plays made it too easy as far as storytelling lovers were concerned... and so on, and so forth. We were already by 1980 living in a world where anyone could make more educated guesses about what was or would be popular than ever before. Social media is one more increment on that chain, not some new unique thing that ruined creativity forever.

>>745154915
not him, but the problem I have with the points you're making is that you're assuming nothing filled the voids social media did prior to its existence. While social media is a much more accurate and persistent measure of engagement and inspiration, developers back in the day still used focus tests, pitch decks and on-site testing to weigh their games against the current crop of successful releases.
Risk-takers are very small in number and only slightly larger in the indie scene because you can afford to waste a few months making a prototype or a small game not many people will play.

>>745155162
>You think devs weren't looking for any fucking way to pin down what "worked"?
They were, they didn't have it and it resulted in experimental games with subjective tastes, you are really struggling with this reading thing

>>745153793
>so that starts the trend for mascot characters being made
With you on this. Even when those games turned out to be lesser in quality to varying degrees, said games ended up being THE most popular games the studio made.

>>745155229
Also, back then, when something was a cultural sensation, you really COULD see it everywhere. Star Wars was universally known, at least second or third-hand, in the first world. It would not have been a "guess" to try and make something like Star Wars. It permanently changed the shape of all sci-fi in its wake, arguably more than Star Trek, in spite of Star Trek being the one to establish what can now be recognized as "fandom". There is literally no sci-fi property that could ever hope to be copied as much as Star Wars has been, and there won't be until the paradigm of social media is over and dead, because social media makes shit spread and thus burn out much faster, so you don't have time to physically SEE it take over the country.

>>745155264
>no they don't have any way to judge how popular a given piece of media they wanted to copy was until social media
No.

>>745155378
Yeah, and that was because they had ways to look at the market and judge what general ideas were popular and likely to be profitable back then too.
>social media makes it TOO EASY
Too bad. I PREFER games made by people who understand why they're making the choices they do, to some extent.

>>745155497
Yep, sorry you're underage and can't cope with the fact life used to be different and *better* by default before you were born

>>745155378
>said games ended up being THE most popular games the studio made.
Yep exactly, so many publishers and studios experienced great success because of the mascot platformers

>>745155686
>nooooo social media really was the end of everything! THIS new development KILLED creativity! You just don't GET it!
Most people learned to assimilate all the new information they had and use it to help them engage more with the game. You let the information disengage you from the game because you view having background knowledge about the type of media you're making to be an inherent sign of bad faith. When everyone knows tropes just as background information, nobody who uses them is trying to plug in by the numbers shit to make money. Everyone having background fluency in tropes lets works use them more freely.

>>745154915
>opposed to pre-social-media times when you had to make your own decisions and didn't have a constant objective measure of how successful things are
nigger iq retarded

>>745155839
What kind of slop ass mentality is this

>zooms unironically defending the mass enshitification of media
The golden age of movies, anime, videogames, and the internet itself occured before social media. This is common consensus. Its also common consensus that nobody is fucking happy and most things being produced now fucking suck.
Stop trying to defend it. Everyone knows its when everything went to shit. No, I dont care that this hurts your feefees.

>>745155921
>everyone knows tropes so nobody will be fooled into thinking they're looking at competent work by someone just plugging them into their story blindly
>"wtf? This is slop, tropes are for people to ignore and pretend don't exist"
Retard with zero literacy.

>>745134060
whats the bottom character's name? i need it so i can look up his game and not search for him on any lewd boorus

>>745156164
Skip, game was never released so no art
See this anons post >>745150770

>>745156102
>media is worse now
Correct
>it's all because social media has rendered 100% of games unoriginal slop, my based 90s games were made based on only a handful of stolen ideas
Incorrect and retarded
Stop trying to defend retarded hyperbole. I don't care if I hurt your feefees.

>social media invented tropes and horny cartoonists

>>745156325
Keep coping zoomoid

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>>745134060
for me its
>gamma colorspace
vs.
>linear colorspace
I just hate how grey and washed out everything looks with linear coloring. Just look at the difference between the colors of your pic.
Also none of what you are saying is anything new, it's always been like that. Sturgeon's law and all.

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>>745137470
Almost no indie devs in the west actually do that and get much success. Not because people don't like big boobs, but because all of the big Western indie publishers are pozzed and paid off by BlackRock and HR teams, and self-published games usually never get much traction. Most of the successful indie games recently that actually have big titties and aren't outright porn are from Asia. And a good amount of the indie titles recently that actually have fanservice and are actually games (even from Asia) are poisoned chalices, (I'm looking at you, Kotama and Academy Citadel) or just plain shit (Eternal Palace Sakura, if the demo is anything to go by). AA and A devs are our last hope for fanservice currently.

For anyone wondering, the guy who made the game with the otter canceled that, but then went on to start working on this, which is also probably never getting finished because without funding or direct motivation most of these social media game projects die a slow and painful death.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2960390/Nutty_Dungeons/?beta=0

>zoomers are now seriously, genuinely, authentically trying to pretend that things have always been bad and to stop complaining and pointing out things
Woof

>>745157795
It's been explained by 10 different people, so you're just a bit slow if you're not getting it by now.

>>745157795
>wtf? My old games didn't have tropes! That's a new thing! Tropes are why new games are bad! Those cringe zoomers can't pretend old games had tropes!
Retard illiterate faggot.

>>745157982
Are you the guy who's been told he's illiterate seven times ITT

>>745157902
It's been explained to you 10 times as well, but it's kind of like explaining water to a fish, you simply never lived through the times before social media to be aware that a difference can even exist

>>745158180
Being told I'm illiterate by someone who thinks there's any era of media that was "pure", much less specifically the era they clearly grew up with, is meaningless.

>>745158549
The difference is in the accessibility of knowledge to consumers, not in the tendencies of creators to act based on the knowledge they have.

>>745158549
I'm an unc, and the only arguments I've seen in favor of the OP that I agree with is the lack of social media causing more "noise" to enter the creative process yeah that's probably true.
Basically nothing else is true and just impugning new things because reasons and refusing to challenge older things because other reasons. It's all arbitrary.

>>745158706
That's been the argument from the start

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>>745134060
You can tell the example at the bottom is faggot coded.
and Banjo is not.

>>745158808
Then what's the problem? Having ready access to the knowledge of what creators were inspired by does not make a work any worse. It's useful in analyzing a work.

>>745134060
>stories and premises are now a checklist of popular tropes from TV Tropes and lorebait that gets people to make essays

TVTropes is not a resource used to write stories, it's an encyclopedia of common trends in stories.

>>745134574
Oh yes because this game was E rated, sure
/sarcasm

>>745158808
I don't know if I agree with that, there's so much other shit in the OP like implying tropes and archetypes have only just now become relevant in analyzing and in rare cases creating written work

>>745158918
Games are more enjoyable when they don't feel like a shallow regurgitation of things you saw last week

>>745159002
Nope

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>>745134060
I really couldn't give less of a shit about furries making games so long as the game is fun. I loved Pseudoregalia and felt nothing for the goat chick.

>>745159045
Creators have always been influenced by things they like.

>>745159045
Games don't feel like a shallow regurgitation of what you saw last week just because you know the inspirations behind them.

>>745159157
Reading comprehension?

>>745159248
That's exactly what happens though? Seeing the method ruins the magic trick

>>745159410
Knowing the inspirations doesn't change anything.

>>745159410
>a creative work is a "magic trick"
What the actual fuck? No. I am not being "tricked" into liking a story. My ability to recognize elements I like and why I like them is independent of my knowledge of what might have influenced those elements. They're two separate steps in the process of engaging with a creative work.

>>745159481
It does

>>745159514
You sound like you never experienced a good story in your life

>>745159549
I've experienced plenty. I just don't have to lobotomize myself to appreciate them. I feel deeply sorry that you were tricked into thinking otherwise.
Do you think the reason most "high art" fags are considered to kind of hate art is because... they can talk about it and articulate their ideas with the proper language and knowledge of where inspirations might lie?

>>745134896
>I don't have to think that when I'm playing modern games as a matter of course.
Counterpoint: Palworld.

>>745160632
Spite towards one specific company's handling of an IP you like feels different from copying something because it's popular, but I take your point.

>>745137818
It's a general rule. Old games still has souless character conception and new games still have SOVL but the balance is less favorable now.

>>745134574
>big boobs
>fetish
lmao fag

>>745134060
>top: funny looking bear that appeals to the target demographic of children
>bottom: HOLY FUCK I WANT HIM TO FUCK ME WITH HIS KNOTTED ANIMAL COCK AND LET HIS FUZZY BALLS PLAP MY CAGE HNNNG LET ME RIM HIS ASSHOLE WHILE HE FARTS DOWN MY THROAT respectfully

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Netflix figured out if you put meme bait in a show or movie, the product markets itself. So now every show and game is desperate to have a 'viral moment' for free advertisement. This is most evident in Pokemon having increasingly wacky designs made to trend on Twitter.

>>745159706
Do you know what the words "suspension of disbelief" mean

>>745162373
Engaging with a work of fiction on a real enough level to feel things over it even though it's technically all fake? Of course. It doesn't require me to avoid thinking about it being a fiction entirely, or elements that "give it away" as fictional. Do you think it means pretending a game is really happening as you play it? Pretending so hard that you actively think of it as a thing that's happening? I'd say that goes against my own suspension of disbelief. If I try to think about the setting of a work as a real place or its characters as real individuals, then logical inconsistencies become more prevalent.

We live in a completely different world today. Post-Covid, post mass adoption of social media.

To say "B-But tropes were a thing back then too!" just makes you sound dumb lol.

You're just annoyed by nostalgia-fags so you try to grasp at straws.

>>745161463
This

>>745134060
You raise some interesting points

>>745134060
As if you faggots don't play Stardew Valley and every recent Pokemon game.

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>>745146709
>Nobody in the world can just make whatever they want and characters have been understood as archetypes for thousands of years.
Whilst OP is a schizo, the old archetypes were
>male lead who either starts a winner or grows into being a winner
>dashing rogue who actually isn't a rogue and actually crusades for the most basic moral beliefs possible
>female princess to be rescued, even when she's the protagonist in a romcom
>two or one dimensional charismatic villain who wants money or "revenge" or something narratively justified but morally unjustified

the current archetypes are
>angry girlboss who wins even when nothing makes sense
>beta who self deprecates (often male, sometimes the protagonist)
>miserable amoral anti-social idiot who crusades against the most basic moral beliefs possible (this is your protagonist, btw)
>one dimensional ugly villain, occasionally used as a stand-in for "colonialism bad" as either perpetrator or victim, narrative confusingly says they're just as morally grey as the hero, and in fact on occasion the villain is the protagonist and the hero???
Or in other words, girl good, boy bad, aka feminism with a heavy dose of critical race theory.

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another uncslop thread

>>745134478
>zoomer
>medicated from a young age
Is this a burgerland thing? Would explain a lot.

>>745163837
It didn't change how media is made at all

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>>745163545
Then compare the following two situations
>you engage with a monster capturing game
>one of the monsters in it is Lugia
>there are no immediately obvious design inspirations behind it and the devs took a risk on a potentially silly design with no knowledge of how it would be received
>you can accept it as a fictional monster with its own mythos that is implied to have existed for a long time
>you can even accept a movie with a serious premise regarding this fictional colorful monster
and
>you engage with a monster capturing game
>one of the monsters in it is Sekhmet
>it's immediately obvious it was inspired by Ankha from Animal Crossing
>devs can claim the design comes from the real Sekhmet but it's obvious
>and it's not just the regular Ankha but the porn warped Ankha from many popular social media memes and videos
>it's hard to accept it as anything but obvious popular-bait coombait-bait made based on the exact same surface level information you were already exposed to because the devs knew it would perform well ahead of time
>it would be hard to accept a movie with a serious premise regarding this monster given that its design constantly reminds you of social media, porn memes, the author etc and breaks your immersion
>if the author had something deep or serious to tell with this character they would've bothered to give it a more original design more tailored to their unique vision

Does all of this make sense and can you apply it to other concepts like story beats, mechanics etc, or do you need it explained again

Just because you didn't understand the references as a kid doesn't mean they weren't there.

>>745165345
Oh this entire thing has just been a pokefag seethe thread, that's way funnier

>>745165537
Oh this entire anon has just been a sub-100 IQ non-hypothetical thinking monkey seether, that's way funnier

>>745165272
Are you saying this when AI exists and creators have to watch what they say or do in order to appeal to the Twitter mob?

>>745165537
>>745165630
Not an argument

>>745165345
>>there are no immediately obvious design inspirations behind it and the devs took a risk on a potentially silly design with no knowledge of how it would be received
No...? It's clearly inspired by the same body plan of "sea monster" that you see in the Loch Ness, with the addition of the hand wing things (maybe to put it more with the birds) and Pokemon typical colored and shaped elements.
My ability to accept it as a fictional monster with its own mythos that is implied to have existed for a long time is because it follows the rules Pokemon has established about its universe.
>Does all of this make sense and can you apply it to other concepts like story beats, mechanics etc, or do you need it explained again
No, because I saw inspirations in Lugia the first time I saw it when I was a child. It didn't matter that they were "general" or "old" inspirations, I could see where it came from. And it didn't violate my suspension of disbelief, because acknowledging that a drawing was made by a person who had thoughts doesn't relate to my engagement in the story.

>>745166132
Post a popular design that looks like Lugia that you often saw before you saw Lugia for the first time

>>745166213
>It didn't matter that they were "general" or "old" inspirations
Can you read the posts you reply to please?

>>745166374
>can't name a direct obvious inspiration
Good, you agree with me that things are much worse now than they were

>>745134060
you niggers unironically believe this??
Doom, which is one of the greatest game ever, was heavily influenced by fans talking directly to Carmack and Romero on forums and IRC channels.
Also devs would get all kinds of feedback through letters and when they visited events like E3 to show their demos.

Games suck nowadays because blackrock jews demand everything to be satanic gay shit or else they won't get funded.

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>>745165345
>What if Superman was a dolphin?

Pokemon itself indulges in pop cultural references.

>>745166430
Like I said, Palworld is a case of developers specifically being motivated out of spite towards a frustratingly poorly handled IP. And a parody, besides. There's a reason you had to use a 20 year old Pokemon.

>>745166430
Whether you recognize the inspiration or not changes nothing.

>>745166743
He thinks it does. He thinks if you recognize the inspiration your experience with the work is directly worse, and that's why obvious references are considered cheap when used en masse. He fundamentally does not understand.

>>745166504
People also tend to get angry when they realize that a developer is making something for either themselves or their particular niche. I have no interest in playing a bara sea otter game but if others enjoy it I'm not going to complain about it.

>>745166624
Yeah the claim is that modern creativity is compromised across the board, just because you assumed I'm a pokefag doesn't mean I'm one

>>745166626
I don't really care about either game or IP, I just used them as the closest and most obvious examples of what I'm talking about, Lugia as a unique and creative design that can support storytelling and Sekhmet as a creatively bankrupt one directly caused by social media that creates this feeling

I wouldn't be able to immerse in a movie that wants me to take Sekhmet seriously the same way I can't immerse in a game that starts pulling out mechanics or character designs or stories or art styles etc that I know the creator picked up from social media trends rather than designed around their game and vision

For example Fields of Mistria being a blatant mashup of Naoko Takeuchi's art style (the most popular "90s anime vibecore" artist) with the popularity of Stardew Valley, it's impossible to take it seriously or get invested into anything it has to say or show, whereas something like Cuphead is heavily inspired by 30s cartoons but displays enough original designs and is just an entry in a non-trendy genre, neither of its inspirations were really trendy which makes it easier to take seriously, (though not as much as something even more original like Hylics)

>>745166743
Just because you're a brainlet without nuance doesn't mean everyone else is

>>745167275
>Lugia as a unique and creative design that can support storytelling
... but still establishes its place in the universe by playing to existing expectations, formed by other fiction. This lunatic all or nothing attitude OP is pushing where you shouldn't be able to detect inspiration at all otherwise you're ruining the magic of fiction for yourself is just wrong.
>and Sekhmet as a creatively bankrupt one directly caused by
A desire to dunk on Nintendo and Game Freak at the same time. And also make money, yes.
Is Spaceballs made any worse by me knowing it's riffing on Star Wars? Fuck no. I'm still not violating my suspension of disbelief, because suspension of disbelief is not about thinking of the story as real.
"Taking it seriously" is not the only form of investment in fiction. I find people who engage in stories by picking a guy and rooting for them to the point that they bitch at the author for making them lose obnoxious as all fuck. And they get more common year over year.
>neither of its inspirations were really trendy which makes it easier to take seriously
I understand where you're coming from, but personally disagree. I think judging someone for putting out something that plays to current trends is kind of asinine. I don't value originality to such extremes as you, I want to see ideas explored, passed between works, iterated.
Also the threshold for "trendy" is kind of nuts with many people who argue this. Just for one example, retro platformers have been a thing for 15, 20 years. But still, they're apparently a cynical thing devs do to be lazy and get attention, and not just... a style of game. Pseudoregalia is a good and fun platformer whose main issues are being too short and missing a polish pass. This view of it that it must have been constructed for the sole purpose of going viral is way too cynical.

>>745134060
I wish more games went for the same fairytale tone as Banjo. Not just using real-life fairy tales like a bunch of games do, but making up a bunch of random arbitrary bullshit that would happen in them, like stealing oranges from a gorilla to make a platform rise to get a golden puzzle piece to stop a witch or fucking whatever. It's quaint. I feel like it's lost even in Tooie.

>>745167995
>... but still establishes its place in the universe by playing to existing expectations, formed by other fiction.
What the fuck are you talking about
>This lunatic all or nothing attitude OP is pushing where you shouldn't be able to detect inspiration at all otherwise you're ruining the magic of fiction for yourself is just wrong.
No one said this
>A desire to dunk on Nintendo and Game Freak at the same time. And also make money, yes.
Not important, the point is that if they decided to use the design seriously they wouldn't be able to
>Is Spaceballs made any worse by me knowing it's riffing on Star Wars?
Spaceballs is a parody
>"Taking it seriously" is not the only form of investment in fiction. I find people who engage in stories by picking a guy and rooting for them to the point that they bitch at the author for making them lose obnoxious as all fuck
This has nothing to do with the topic
>I think judging someone for putting out something that plays to current trends is kind of asinine. I don't value originality to such extremes as you, I want to see ideas explored, passed between works, iterated.
I think your mentality led to slop even before AI slop
>Just for one example, retro platformers have been a thing for 15, 20 years. But still, they're apparently a cynical thing devs do to be lazy and get attention
Movementslop was a trend started by Mario 64 romhacks
>This view of it that it must have been constructed for the sole purpose of going viral is way too cynical.
No one said this, it was about the protagonist's design being too obviously just the creator's fapfuel OC based on furfag porn trends

>>745166624
Staryu and Rhydon are both Ultraman references. Nidoking is literally just Baragon from Godzilla too. Always has been.

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>>745165345
Even with your cherrypicking of Pokémon to try and prove your views, your points still fail as you pretend that the era of the 90s and 00s are unique and not based on trends while everything post social media is based on something else when that isn't true.
Just because YOU haven't experienced any forms of media that you associate with Lugia doesn't mean everybody else has, and you'd be a severely autistic sperg in not being able to realize that

I can play your retard game too, let's use Crash
>you engage with a platforming game
>one of the characters in it is Crash
>there are no immediately obvious design inspirations behind him and the devs took a risk on a potentially silly design with no knowledge of how it would be received
>you can accept him as a fictional bandicoot with his own mythos that is implied to have existed for a long time
>you can even accept a movie with a serious premise regarding this fictional colorful bandicoot
You think this is true don't you?
Despite how Crash is very obviously based on Loony Tunes cartoons and looks exactly like one of those characters that kids of the 90s would recognize because cartoon characters in that style were still popular.
And let's also not forget that his gameplay style is very obviously based on DKC and Sonic, both of which were already very successful games in the era

Answer specifically about how Crash is unique and NOT based on any trends just like you claimed games in the 90s era were despite him being a very successful mascot character just like Banjo

>>745168617
>another black and white retard

>>745168306
>What the fuck are you talking about
Lugia had to play to some expectations of what a powerful sea creature to look like. Those expectations come from other fiction. You have to be on the same page as the creator to understand what you're looking at and agree with them on what it "looks like", in other words.
>No one said this
>>745159410
>Seeing the method ruins the magic trick
Someone said this.
>Spaceballs is a parody
So is Palworld.
>This has nothing to do with the topic
People who pick a guy and demand that guy win as often as possible are engaging with fiction by treating it like it's real.
>I think your mentality led to slop even before AI slop
I think you dismissed perfectly good things as slop.
>Movementslop
Yep there it is.
>the protagonist's design being too obviously just the creator's fapfuel OC based on furfag porn trends
And? Lola Bunny or Rouge was okay because she wasn't based on "trends", she was just a ludicrously horny anthropomorphic animal design? If it were a complete explosion of specific checkboxes that could be traced to like, specific trends all within a few years, I'd understand, but Sybil's design doesn't come across that way at all.

>>745168728
>>Lugia had to play to some expectations of what a powerful sea creature to look like. Those expectations come from other fiction. You have to be on the same page as the creator to understand what you're looking at and agree with them on what it "looks like", in other words.
So it had nothing to do with social media trends
>Someone said this.
No you just understood it under the most extreme interpretation imaginable
>So is Palworld.
Which Pokemon does Sekhmet parody? Also I said it was just an example of the phenomenon, you can take Mouse: PI for Hire as a blatant ripoff of Cuphead's success
>People who pick a guy and demand that guy win as often as possible are engaging with fiction by treating it like it's real.
Still don't see how it's relevant
>I think you dismissed perfectly good things as slop.
I think your standards are too low
>Yep there it is.
Pseudoregalia would never exist if not for the popularity of the Mario 64 speedrun romhack trend
>And? Lola Bunny or Rouge was okay because she wasn't based on "trends"
Correct
>she was just a ludicrously horny anthropomorphic animal design?
With plausible deniability i.e. being their world's equivalent of a succubus (bat = vampire), or a cheerleader type athlete (subverted), what the fuck is Sybil supposed to be? She has no grounding in anything other than fap fuel
> If it were a complete explosion of specific checkboxes that could be traced to like, specific trends all within a few years, I'd understand, but Sybil's design doesn't come across that way at all.
Diives was already mentioned

>>745169267
>So it had nothing to do with... trends
No, it did.
>you just understood it
The way he proceeded to defend it when questioned.
>Which Pokemon does Sekhmet parody?
Ankha. They moved from parodying Pokemon specifically to Nintendo in general over the course of the lawsuit. A reasonable response, no?
>Mouse: PI for Hire as a blatant ripoff of Cuphead's success
Agreed, sort of. I think other people could make 2D animated rubber hose games without it being a ripoff. But I think this specific one has no real reason to be, so it probably is.
>Still don't see how it's relevant
Your idea of suspension of disbelief seems to be regarding the fiction as real.
>Pseudoregalia would never exist if not for the popularity of the Mario 64 speedrun romhack trend
And? Why is being inspired by a 30 year old game bad? Someone who likes something genuinely will still be more motivated to produce a work based on that thing while it's trendy.
>trends... just bad, okay?! Your inspiration has to be old! You can't like anything from the last 30 years and want to be inspired by it!
Explain why.
>With plausible deniability
Complete nonsense that doesn't matter to the consumer. The word you're looking for is "justification", maybe specifically "in universe justification".
>what the fuck is Sybil supposed to be?
Dream creature, drawing from the demonic association of goats but putting herself in a more "holy" light with her color scheme and her weapon being a bit cross. Her outfits emphasize her lower half like that because one of the most famous mythical creatures associated with goats is the faun.
>Diives was already mentioned
That is neither specific to a year or two nor is their work similar enough to constitute much of anything beyond "yep, that would certainly make someone horny for tall, thick thighed furries".

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I think they always meant some characters to be sexy

The fact that it now might extend to male characters as well is just because people give less fucks, but also OP couldn't have picked a tamer possible example for "dev's poorly-masked fetish" if he thinks otter man with eyebrows is too fetishy

>>745170401
The argument is just "new thing bad old thing good" if you read the thread.
>the people who made this old thing were *inspired*...
>the people who made this new thing are just taking advantage of social media trends, their characters didn't come from them...why? Because they just hecking don't okay....
Very funny thread.

>>745169816
>No, it did.
It didn't
>The way he proceeded to defend it when questioned.
Nope
>Ankha. They moved from parodying Pokemon specifically to Nintendo in general over the course of the lawsuit. A reasonable response, no?
So not a Pokemon parody
>Your idea of suspension of disbelief seems to be regarding the fiction as real.
Nope
>And? Why is being inspired by a 30 year old game bad? Someone who likes something genuinely will still be more motivated to produce a work based on that thing while it's trendy.
It's being inspired by recent romhacks of a 30 year old game
>Your inspiration has to be old! You can't like anything from the last 30 years and want to be inspired by it! Explain why.
Because if you care about your work you'll want it to come across as more than just trend chasing
>Complete nonsense that doesn't matter to the consumer.
Just because people are willing to accept slop doesn't mean slop is acceptable
>The word you're looking for is "justification", maybe specifically "in universe justification".
No functional difference between the two in this argument
>Dream creature, drawing from the demonic association of goats but putting herself in a more "holy" light with her color scheme and her weapon being a bit cross. Her outfits emphasize her lower half like that because one of the most famous mythical creatures associated with goats is the faun.
Doesn't pass the sniff test, obviously just fap fuel with an anime face, uncovered crotch, waiter tier vest, huge thighs etc
>That is neither specific to a year or two nor is their work similar enough to constitute much of anything beyond "yep, that would certainly make someone horny for tall, thick thighed furries".
Diives focused on anime faced fur girls in nonsensical sexy outfits and huge thighs and got hugely popular due to it, at least Belladona, Candy Kong, or Berri are just animals with big tits

>>745170649
Zoomcope

>>745168695
>can't prove his point
I accept your concession
You cite Banjo in the OP as a way to prove your points, but when it comes to explaining how mascot characters aren't based on trends you dodge poorly

You can't explain how Crash
>is a completely unique design
>his design doesn't have any obvious inspirations nor is he based on any obvious popular archetypes
>character cast are not based on any preexisting tropes/archetypes
>His first game was a risk at the time he released
>isn't based on any trends
>how his gameplay mechanics are completely unique and/or internal experiments despite how they're very obviously based on DKC and Sonic
>Story and premises are not predictable and don't use any popular tropes

>>745170890
I'm not engaging with your strawman faggot, fuck off

>>745170881
The entire argument to the contrary is just people assuming the motives of people who make things they don't want with no evidence.
Obviously, social media does affect the creative process in ways that are unique to the current day but don't pretend you know more than you know.

I didn't read the thread but furfaggots are disgusting and a huge cancer that ruined everything from the internet to gaming. The world before they exited was way better and zoomers will never get to experience it. moot was right to ban furfags on sight. Thanks for asking and reading.

>>745170730
"Trend" doesn't mean something that came about recently, it means whatever the direction of things coming is for whatever time period you're discussing. If the direction (of a society, a specific style, a product, etc.) has been like this for 50 years, that is still the trend.
>not a Pokemon parody
You can be a parody of multiple things at once.
>It's being inspired by recent romhacks of a 30 year old game
And it's good because it's made by someone who understands the appeal more than "this is a recent trend".
>if you care about your work you'll want it to come across as more than just trend chasing
The limit for "trend chasing" is like five years max.
>You're accepting SLOP if you don't agree with me
No.
>Doesn't pass the sniff test
And I could say that about Rouge or Lola. Many have. I think they're wrong, but it's all subjective.
The decisions used to explain the old horny characters are excuses for the artists, who made horny decisions because they found those traits attractive. They likely found those traits attractive due to exposure elsewhere.
>obviously just fap fuel with an anime face, uncovered crotch, waiter tier vest, huge thighs etc
Obviously just fap fuel with eyeliner, cleavage, skintight bodysuit with heart shaped "armor" plate exclusively covering her chest, high heeled boots, fat tits etc.
>Diives focused on anime faced fur girls in nonsensical sexy outfits and huge thighs
Diives' heyday was like a decade ago or more, when they were still drawing Pokemon. You think the cycle of inspiration to creation was too short just because you recognized the inspiration, apparently forgetting that you recognize it from years ago.
>at least Belladona, Candy Kong, or Berri are just animals with big tits
Splitting hairs, they were not reinventing the fucking wheel by making sexy animals with big tits and they knew it.

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>>745170947
I already accepted your concession anon, no need to give me any more (You)s thanks anyways though
Here's one (You) more from me too, on the house
Maybe next time try to make some better arguments so you don't get effortlessly BTFO by the entire thread

>>745171427
Cope more

You are trans nigga lolol lol lol lol

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>>745170401
True, and even in universe the characters are still treated with the respect they've earned. Like Carmelita is a sexy fox lady, but she's a cop with years of experience in detective work and can hold her own in a fight, becoming one of Interpol's top officers.

>>745134060
/v/ really is filled with some of the stupidest, most insane people huh? Like literal incarnations of dunning kruger.

>>745171863
You better not be badmouthing the game I played when I was 8!

>>745171159
>Obviously, social media does affect the creative process in ways that are unique to the current day

It affects it negatively though.

>>745172162
Sometimes. Social media has that effect in general.

>>745171863
on the bright side it's fucking hilarious reading their posts

>>745171863
Are you insulting the great platformer I played 25 years ago???

>>745172289
>Sometimes

Um, no.

>>745171863
>>745172351
>>745171891
>>745172380

Samefag.

Imagine living like this. Jesus Christ. Get help.

>>745172453
>only one of 4
Lmao fuck you faggot, your argument is retarded and so are you

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>>745172453
lmao, cope
just accept your point could at least be presented better.

>>745146772
for once this shitty design would be better since it wouldn't have been shaped by modern online furry porn consumption

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>>745172453
Mind? Broken.