>come on bro
>just one more action combat Japanese RPG bro
>it will reach the wider audience this time bro I swear bro

>>745579813
like it was cool when there was like quintet and falcom that had action rpgs as their gimmick but yeah all these other ones are absolute dogshit

>>745579747
>posts the reason for the stigma to begin with
>pretends not to notice
should i point out the obvious to you, brother?

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>Like playing as an entire party in RPGs.
>Every developer out there decides "uhh no what you REALLY want is to play as one dude babysitting a bunch of dipshit AI"
>or not have any other party members at all
man

>last traditional turn based FF was X
>immensely successful, sells billions of copies, immense cultural legacy
>ermmm well we cant do that again, it will never work
>they change the formula and its total dog shit
>FF becomes irrelevant boomer slop due to the only good games being made 20+ years ago
>they keep doubling down on failed gameplay changes that never worked
>still refuse to make a normal FF ever again
WHO IS RUNNING THIS PIECE OF SHIT RETARDED FUCKING COMPANY

JRPGs had a stigma?

>>745579747
>dumb guy from company says this
>meanwhile every other jap is using rpgmaker

wow japanese being ignorant and lying about history, think i've heard this one before

>>745579747
Can someone kill SE already

>>745581396
Yeah, Jurnos hated them

>>745579747
>Bu-but the jews from sweet baby inc said so!

>>745579747
only gen Z hate turn based rpgs because they cannot sit down for 2 seconds to save their lives. the internet has rotted their brains to the point where they need constant stimulation in order to play anything.

>>745581396
they get put down for being from japan
the rpg part isn't actually the issue

>>745582398
So true king. P5 totally isn't popular with zoomers btw

>>745582398
gen z loves jrpgs what are you smoking

>>745581383
>X
>immense cultural legacy

>>745582503
yeah, people are still making threads that hit bump limit about it 25 years later. people only talk about the later entries to mock them.

>>745582592
Ah yes, the root foundation of all cutural legacies globally... an american knock off of a japanese image forum website board where 90% of the discussion is full of knuckledragging simpletons like you who make goon ERP threads and are trannies. Of course, how could we be so silly to ignore such a cornerstone of humanity?
Kill yourself.

>>745582449
>>745582450
They don't like it for the turn-based gameplay.

>>745579747
When you look at beta E33 and production E33 clearly someone came in and said it looked like shit and changes everything but they pretend what they got was always the plan

>>745582776
Nigga I don't know if you know this... but turn based "gameplay" really isn't that "invigorating" or "exciting". You need something to hook the players to wade through the bullshit. There's a reason RPGs are so story heavy, and you're delusional if you think gameplay alone is why the genre held on for so long and why people liked FF to begin with.

>>745582736
sorry no one cares about your nu-FF slop, anon.

>>745579747
japan killed jrpgs
take a look at their character designs and voice acting and then imagine them shitting them out every year

>>745582286
The worst feature of Japanese business boomers is that they always instantly believe whatever American consultants tell them about the global market and the "modern audience".

E33 and BG3 prove that turn based combat is fine as long as you remove the dated, overused uwu anime stereotypes.

>>745582868
Note how you had no argument.

>>745582736
Kill yourself back to 9gag if you hate it so much, tranny.

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>>745582736
Calm down Spoony

>>745582776
your argument is they're all so adhd they can't sit still for two minutes and persona five is one of the most bloated slowly paced turn based games to ever hit mainstream audiences, your argument is dead so just move on.

>>745579747
SE being a bunch of insecure pussies too scared of JRPG history makes me appreciate devs like Falcom that are completely unapologetic in still making the most JRPG JRPGs known to man.

>>745582736
reddit is that way

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>>745579747
>the "stigma" of turn-based combat
>negative-jrpg-stigma
And you enormous faggots wonder why I despise that term "JRPG". You assholes embraced something that was being used as an insult and it had a substantive impact on the kind of games I fucking liked. A negative one. You can all burn in hell forever for this.

>>745579747

I'm 32. Been a gamer my whole life either started with Phantasmagoria or Tomb Raider 2, owned every console from snes to current gen. Other than paper Mario I hate turn based games, it bores me, this is 100% why i didn't play Clair.

Don't care about your opinions or your thoughts on me, but saw your pejorative statement and wanted to let you know they're right, I'm sure most of the people who didn't play it will say that's what put them off

>>745580531
Star ocean and tales of should be the only action rpgs.
Don't know why FF needed that.
They should have improved FFX-2 combat and do more games with that

>>745582852
>turn based "gameplay" really isn't that "invigorating" or "exciting"
This but unironically, it's literally just "your turn my turn" bullshit. Faggots act like it's the greatest thing ever when it's literally the most baby fucking gameplay next to peakaboo or some shit. PONG has more interactivity than any RPG game ever. They confuse their nostalgia and affinity for everything else the game had to offer (visuals, artstyle, aesthetic, music, characters, story, dialogue) and somehow equate it all to the redlight-greenlight gameplay. Super Mario Bros on the NES has more control and automation over the game than any RPG from its time and the next 20 years after. If you idiots want some braindead turn slop to play, maybe you should try Pokemon, they make that shit by the pound with no effort put into it. It's right up your alley.

>>745583151
the director of FFX-2 went on to direct an original mainline title of his own, and people largely consider it the reason the brand is in its present state.

>>745581263
The thing is that 99% of jrpgs are so shallow that the fighting is just A spamming. That's what made people get tired out and feel like they'd rather have a retarded AI play the game for themselves.
Make your game complex enough that people might feel inclined to form at least one thought during combat and you'll soon have them appreciating
Like holy shit even Pokemon which is for kids is leagues above almost every jrpg I've played because it at least has the rock paper scissors going on with the typings. I am replaying FF6 for the story and characters and even like 20 hours in all I've been doing is spamming the same moves over and over (and iirc the late game was just spamming the ultima spell, so it's not like it's going to get better than this). And it's not like the modern games are any more complex than this. The modern Dragon Quests I've played are the same way and even Persona 5 which at least attempts to have a type weakness system quickly turns into spamming A too once you know what element the enemies are weak to which takes like 5 minutes to discover on each palace.

>>745583284
>Make your game complex enough that people might feel inclined to form at least one thought during combat and you'll soon have them appreciating
*appreciating having time to think between turns.

>>745583219
Well, going the corridor route and combat that plays itself isn't what i would call an improvement.
He fucked up.
Doesn't mean we suddenly need action slop left and right

>>745581263
Obviously the ideal evolution of an RPG is an action game. You seriously think devs wanted to make RPGs the way they did because they liked it? The vision was always grandiose and ambitious. An ideal "RPG" is one where you CONTROL every action you do with free movement. You're a contrarian if you think otherwise.

>>745581396
Yeah, during the "belts and zippers" era because of things like X-2 and Crisis Core being anathema to Western tastes.

>>745583359
>the point of RPGs is to drop the actual RPG elements and turn them into hack'n'slash action games
OK, retard.

>>745583359
>Obviously the ideal evolution of an RPG is an action game
I always wondered why Squeenix didn't just use Kingdom Hearts's gameplay as a basis for FF games. Always seemed like a no-brainer. If From can basically make the same game across multiple IPs, there's no reason Squeenix can't just take something that just works and apply and experiment with it in their other games.

>>745582852
Not every game needs to be "exciting". You're just reinforcing his point about constant stimulation. Sometimes you just want a game you can chill with, or a game that engages you mentally instead of through adrenaline. JRPGs aren't the only genre like this. Strategy games and simulation games for example are rarely "exciting" in the way I think you mean it, and rarely have much story either. It's true that story heavy JRPG games tend to have wider appeal, but games like SMT (core series) and Etrian Odyssey still have fans despite having little to no story. Hell, the original Pokemon games were massive despite having an extremely basic and barebones story. There is value in slower paced gameplay even if it ultimately remains somewhat niche. Maybe turn based JRPGs never reach their peak popularity again, but why does that mean the genre should go extinct? Maybe it's just something they need to accept and scale down accordingly.

>>745583407
There's a reason they invented the ATB, and it wasn't to complement the turn based system itself little bro. Sorry this has been a rude wake up call for you, but devs always wanted to make actual games instead of RPGs. Next you'll be surprised that devs actually wanted high quality CD music on their games instead. Shocker, right?

It's a zoomer thing. They all unanimously
>hate turn-based combat
>hate games without voice acting
>hate exposition
>hate 2D graphics
You should see modern Pokemon discourse. It's nothing but contempt for the franchise, especially the earlier games.

>>745579813
People tend to forgot Elden Ring is a JRPG

>>745583485
Because Square is fucking retarded and egotistical for pioneering a genre, they have had multiple decades worth of interviews from devs and higher ups who show this, as well as reports that TELL you they are so fucking arrogant and greedy for no reason. They genuinely treat FF as a premium brand like Apple or Gucchi or some shit and don't want to just "copy" themselves. They're so fucking full of shit and a company I genuinely wish would fucking die because there's not a single goddamn person working there who actually knows how to make a video game.

>>745579747
It's simple. Normal people are repulsed by animeshit tropes and artstyle.

>>745583284
>The thing is that 99% of jrpgs are so shallow that the fighting is just A spamming.
I see this get spouted a lot but what specific pre-2010 game are you talking about when you say this? Pokemon?

>>745583563
>Normal people are repulsed by animeshit tropes and artstyle
Anime is very much a normalfag hobby, retard. Everyone knows Chainsaw Man, My Hero Academia, One Piece, Naruto, Demon Slayer, Bleach, if it's shounenshit, it's mainstream.

>>745583485
They wanted to with FF13 versus, until nomura was replaced.
Still hate them for that

>>745583587
It's a strawman from retards that don't play JRPGs. Every JRPG ever relies on a mix of damage dealing, buffs, debuffs, status effects and healing. Sure maybe you can sometimes just spam attacks over and over but that's probably only the case if you grind to overlevel everything.

>>745583506
>Conveniently forgets the seething hate by boomers to anything anime
Yes they're still alive and couldn't just die any more sooner.
It's the reason for SE's iconic psuedo anime jrpg design that fucking casualfags love but both extremist camps hate.

>>745583490
Nigga if you think RPGs are strategic, I've got a bridge to sell you. Also,
>Strategy games and simulation games for example are rarely "exciting" in the way I think you mean it
Way to out yourself as a brainlet. Again, if you want braindead slop: play a hello kitty game. Thank you.

>>745583123
Baby's opinions hold as much weight as a comatose dog. Move along, retard.

>>745579747
They are right, before they had no competition. Now they do.

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>>745583717
Deckbuilder Mystery Dungeon Roguelikes are strategic and are the future of JRPGs.

>>745583632
One doesn't invalidate the other, anon.
We went from blatant Japanophobia during the G4 era in the 2000s, to the 2010s global agenda outright nuking Japanese culture, to zoomers literally not having the attention span to play a pre-Obama video game in any capacity in the 2020s.

The whole genre has had it impossibly rough in the West for the past three decades.

>>745583123
>I'm 32.
We can tell because you fucking spaced beneath the quoted reply like a fucking boomer.

>>745583782
>2010s global agenda outright nuking Japanese culture
So I wasn't crazy seeing Kpop blow up and worst korea dicksucking popping up out of nowhere being fucking weird.

>>745583631
>Every JRPG ever relies on a mix of damage dealing, buffs, debuffs, status effects and healing.
I've been playing JRPGs for nearly 40 years. You are wrong. Most JRPGs only involve hitting stuff and healing. Debuffs are largely useless in the vast majority of games.

>>745581383
13 was turn based

>>745583780
Notice how what you described is nothing like an RPG.

More JRPGs should try doing something like what FF12 did basically trying to implement the 11s combat into single player environment and basically coming up with their own version of realtime combat with pausing that is common in isometric wrpgs.
Sure it's a bit of a sell that part of the fun is wrangling and getting the AI scripts to operate how you want (with option to micromanage) but imo there is space for that particular type of experience.

>>745583752

>calls me retard
>didn't read the part where I could give a fuck about your weeb opinion.

Since you like boring wordy games so much maybe use the dull gameplay to work on your reading comprehension faggot.

>>745583849
>Jrpg
>healing
When was healing last relevant in a turn based game? Even e33 don't need healing. If you get hit, you die instantly and just restart the whole fight without losing progress. Every jrpg in the last decade are all just dps race.

>>745579747
Japanese JRPG:
>boring, cringe story, weebshit
French JRPG
>fun, great story, cute redhead
Japs are just shit at making games.

>>745583717
JRPGs absolutely can be strategic and just as exciting as a strategy game if executed well. The fact that many aren't, is unfortunately true, but that's another conversation altogether. That's not an inherent fault of the genre imo, just the fact that most devs don't take full advantage of the depth the genre can have. Probably because they try to cater to the same mouthbreathing retards who think JRPGs are boring because they're slow paced or "unexciting" in the first place. If JRPGs embraced their core audience and weren't afraid to actually challenge players, you wouldn't be saying that.

>>745583631
Except buff, debuff, status effects, and healing are the elementary stuff of any RPG? In a party based game with a dedicated healer or support member to keep up the buff/debuff/healing, your DPS members are still gonna spam their strongest/weakness exploiting moves every turn anyway. It's not groundbreaking or anything, for fuck's sake.

>>745583869
atb =\= turn based

>>745583869
I... don't think it was

>>745584054
So FF4-10 aren't turn based then, so only FF1-3 are the only real FF games in the franchise, so FF never had a real cultural impact in the turn based genre and has always been bad. Glad we could clear that up.

>>745584045
Retard

>>745583407
>thinking action gameplay eliminates or holds back role-playing

Man I don't hate turn based rpgs but some opinions here are kinda dumb

>>745584132
10 isn't ATB dumb fuck

>>745582964
TRVKE

>>745583631
The systems in most JRPGs are so simple that even with buffs and debuffs into play you will end up having one character that's always doing the same heal, one that's always buffing and two that are always hitting and things like that.
But really in most games you'll just hit with everyone all the time to get through encounters as fast as possible and spam heals outside of battle. It is only on bosses where you might have to turn on enough braincells to spam group heals and some buffs on top of hitting.

>>745584192
You're right, instead of being actually turn based, it's RNG based, which is worse than both, and you think 10 counts as turn based while it clearly isn't.
Just out of curiosity, are you stupid?

>>745584235
>gets BTFO
>instant goalpost moving
Yeah that's what I thought. Watch your fucking tone next time pussy.

>>745584159
>S-sometimes you need to heal in between spamming Fireball on four Slimes in a row!
Larping nigger bitch who gets filtered by real strategy or tactical games.

>>745584254
Damn sis you're so tough you won an online argument about final fantasy. whoa what a tough goy

>>745584045
>>745584226
>your team based game has members of the team dedicated to certain roles to support the team
Wow, crazy fucking insight from the scholars on /v/. Did you dumb fucks even think you had a point here?

>>745583849
>>745584045
>>745584226
Why hasn't anyone listed a specific game like the original anon asked?

>>745584254
Where is the goalpost moving? Can you point it out, or do you need to wait two turns before you take an action since I steamrolled your dumbass?

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>>745584235
What is RNG and not turn-based about this?

>>745583534
Technically, but not really. It's more of a Western action rpg

>>745584378
>these games aren't turn based
>actually X is turn based
>w-well it may be turn based but it's different because *incoherent schizobabble* so it doesn't count
You have been raped

>>745583849
you're not going to beat an SMT or EO game on max difficulty by just spamming attacks. and I don't even think they're particularly hard series for the most part. hell, see how far you get in a Pokemon battle facility without using status moves, let alone a competitive pvp match. and Pokemon is considered a baby game. but that's not because they can't be challenging, it's because they're purposefuly made to be easy, which is the sad reality of the genre. it doesn't have to be that way though.

>>745584024
JarPigs are forever stuck on DQ formula, aka lame combat and maou vs yuusha shit.

>>745584387
You see how it very blatantly does not have true turn based gameplay and the turns are randomized? Do you see that or do you want to keep being retarded?

>>745584490
How is it randomized?
Huh?

>>745584490
It is very clearly turn-based and the turns are not randomized.

>>745584531
Retarded it is. I accept your concession.

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>>745583884
Gaining cards is exactly like gaining stats. Altsrnatively, the few stats you do get are more appreciable because they radically affect how syrong your stats are, how much you can move per turn, how many cards you can play, how much health you have, etc.

>>745584623
From what i understand, you don't even want speed calculated into it at all.
Everyone should get a single turn and that should loop back to the character who started the first turn.
FFX is not a Board game or something though

>>745584314
You fucking nigger literally try to make something elementary like using healing and buffing/debuffing sound deep and complex. Imagine saying something like, "This FPS game is very deep and complex because sometimes you need to reload". You're a dumb nigger. You're the blackest retarded gorilla nigger I've ever seen.

>>745584838
>has to resort to using the N word
I accept your concession

>maek 4 niggers in a line for +30 years
>people get sick of it
>aw dood we're le hecking prosecuted for being wapanese!!

>>745584838
You dumb fucking assholes always say shit like this but then have absolutely NOTHING to say about what they COULD add to this theoretical deep alternative combat system. Shut the fuck up you absolute clown.

>>745579747
It's true and clear as day when you look a games that push the turn based and thinking further like Japanese strategy games, they are unpopular as fuck unless they tack on some other shit instead like modern Fire Emblem.

>>745584909
>people get sick of it
Source?

>>745584838
>JRPGs are just spamming damage skills on repeat
>that's not true there's a lot more involved with it
>that doesn't count
Ok so you're just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point. Besides combat isn't even really the point in JRPGs. It's always more about the out of combat progression systems and how you develop your party.

>>745584331
I lited 2 and a whole franchise in this post anon >>745583284 but you can add pretty much all the turn based FF games (at least from 6 onwards. I haven't played the forst 5) and Chrono Trigger as well
I admit they are as normalfag tier as examples can get and there's probably jrpgs with actual thought out battle systems out there, but the main franchises that built up the reputation for jrpg combat being boring are absolute snoozefests unless you stay underleveled intentionally to make it a bit more demanding (if you are even able to cause many of the more recent games shower you with exp as well).
And it's not even the difficulty that's the problem. The aforementiomed pokemon games as well as other creature battlers like Casette Beasts are easy but still entertaining because the optimal move will change depending on each enemy type and such. Casette Beasts is specially fun because hitting with a wrong typing will not just do less damage but also buff the enemy and/or hurt your beast and enemies even have ways to change typings during their turn (which you can in turn prevent with things like moves that force the enemy to attack instead of use status moves and things like that). These games do become A spamming snoozefests if you minmax your team/move composition but on a regular playthrough there's enough incentive and payoff to making constant adjustments to keep you entertained.
The Super Mario RPG also has some of that element plus things like the combination attacks and shit to try and stray a bit away from the bog standard turn based JRPG gameplay.
The most that many of the JRPGs I've played did were things like bosses where you have to hit a specific part of the body or kill something before you can hit the main boss and stuff which don't actually change absolutely anything because your strategy will be the same, just with different target priority. Aside from that, most major fights I've played are dps/healing races.

>>745584909
>people get sick of it
That never happened though

>>745584963
It's the topic of discussion. Keep up.

Is he wrong? They avoided calling it an JRPG which got E33 funded by a publisher. JRPGs have a ceiling for sales and even exceptions like E33 did not sell better than most other run of the mill open world games.

>>745584963
>>745584991
...OP's image?

>>745584796
>Everyone should get a single turn and that should loop back to the character who started the first turn.
Literally how FF1-3 worked btw, and THEN speed was calculated
You like a dumbed down version because you're a baby
Also
>FFX is not a Board game or something though
THE GAMES ARE BASED OFF A BOARD GAME
THE ENTIRE FRANCHISE
IS BASED OFF A FUCKING BOARD GAMES
THE ENTIRETY OF THE RPG GENRE OWES ITS EXISTENCE TO BOARD GAMES YOU STUPID FAGGOT

>>745584909
Nobody is sick of 4 niggas in a row which is why for the past decade they have been some of the most successful games out there.

>>745585043
It clearly isn't the case though
Look at E33.

>>745585013
>>745585043
>Japs have an inferiority complex and refuse to pitch JRPGs to investors
>suits are retarded and refuse to fund JRPGs
>this means that people are sick of JRPGs

There sure are some seriously delusional people ITT.

>>745585030
Yes funnily enough the non Japanese game wasn't called a JRPG by the devs. Dumb fuck.

japs have real trouble understanding not only what an rpg is but what turn-based is

>>745585137
RPG faggots proving they deserve the garbage they have been served because just like SE they refuse to accept accountability and acknowledge reality

>>745584024
>If JRPGs embraced their core audience and weren't afraid to actually challenge players, you wouldn't be saying that.
The thing is that the core JRPG fanbase are the sort of braindead retards that went on to play gacha auto battlers and things like that. The mainstream series have been braindead for so long that the playerbase that wants demanding and engaging combat has become a minority since a long while ago.
Besides that, I agree that the turn based JRPG genre is not inherently flawed or anything, it's just that the major players unfortunately did what major japanese gaming companies do and started copypasting the same formula that worked for decades which unfortunately isn't very deep or engaging and was largely a product of ots time back when people didn't know how games worked and needed stuff to be simple.

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>>745579747
How is the JRPG genre "fumbling" when every second big release gets celebrated as the bestest JRPG ever made that saved the genre? If they're consecutively that high quality it should be considered thriving, no?

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>you JRPG players should listen to me, man who hates JRPGs on how JRPGs should be improved

>>745584071
It was, you just had a time limit to take your turn to keep the flow going.
There's reasons to hate FFXIII but the combat was pretty engaging if they had ironed out the kinks.
FFXV should have evolved and improved upon it. That would have been far better than the real-time teleport crap they went with in the end.

>>745585084
I specifically said that FFX is not a board game though, who cares what it started as with the first three games.
Doesn't change the fact that it still uses a turn-based System

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JRPG combat in some cases is so fucking boring that you get cases like the persona games where the internet spent months seriously debating whether watching a Persona playthrough counts as having played the game.
You don't get that absolute retardation from other genres for a reason.

>>745584973
>It's always more about the out of combat progression systems and how you develop your party.
I'm not surprised a nigger would think it's mentally engaging to put points into INT for mage build and STR for warrior build, and feel very smart for accomplishing such a feat.

>>745585328
How to improve FF13 combat in one easy step
>LET ME CONTROL ALL 3 CHARACTERS IN BATTLE JESUS FUCKING CHRIST

>>745585481
>strawman from a retard that doesn't play or like JRPGs on what JRPGs are like
Yawn

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>>745579747
If Naoki Yoshida doesn't think turn-based games are worth it, I believe him.
Turned based games are a dying genre, young people aren't into those games anymore, and the only way to be successful is to go the action route.

>>745585427
Persona made its dungeons as basic and idiotproof as possible to appease VNfags, that's why they say these things about Persona.

>>745585481
>to put points into INT for mage build and STR for warrior build
Name 1 JRPG where this is the only progression system. I'll wait.

>>745579747
turn based has literally zero reason to exist in videogames.
It's literally a concession to make board games function. videogames do not have the same limitation. Especially because board games are by definition multiplayer experiences, while the majority of RPGs are single player

>>745585574
E33 sold more copies than FFXVI by a massive degree despite FFXVI having 10 times as much budget and marketing. You are objectively wrong.

>>745585582
Elden Ring.

I love how much action troons seethe about turn based games when it gets proven constantly that turn based games are always successful and action games flop most of the time.

>>745585604
>It's literally a concession to make board games function.
Nope.

>>745585576
>Persona made its dungeons as basic and idiotproof as possible to appease VNfags
Most of the 90s jrpgs that /v/ creams themselves over have dungeons that are just as simple and combat that is usually also simpler.
Persona gets its retardation amplified because of the VN part of the game, but the JRPG part is very standard or slightly above average. If you took another game and made it into a semi-VN with vibes and aesthetics aiming at the general public you'd get the same thing.

>>745583506
>>745582398
TRVKE

>>745582398
i've hated jrpgs because they looked cheap, waste a ton of time on nothing, and have shit combat. Persona 5 fixed only one of those - the shit combat. It's actually embarassing how much less engaging jrpgs both mechanically and visually during dungeons. They make Elden Ring catacombs and DS2 empty rooms look like mona lisa. Even capcom ones, like how does monster hunter stories 2 look so bad?

>>745585574
Young people only play Roblox and mobile games. Premium console games are unc slop and inherently a medium for millennials and some aging gen X nerds. There is no such thing as "young people" in future of Playstation, once millennials start quitting gaming it is fucking over.

>>745579747
They literally had to deal with overt racism and ignorance from the West over JRPGs so yes they do believe that. You're a piece of shit zoomer though so you weren't there to see how openly games media and even American developers would make fun of JRPGs and Japanese themes in general.

>>745585719
That's fair /v/ does have horrific taste

>>745585823
And that's fine
You're just not the target audience for these games then

>>745585823
Because you have shit taste

>>745582964
what games use said stereotypes

>>745585604
Nah some types of games will always be better suited for turn based gameplay just like others are suited for real time woth pausing. There is a limit to what a player can execute/think in real time and turn based systems create a nice push and pull between the players if done correctly.

>>745585574
yoshida doesn't know shit

>>745582398
Disliking turn based has nothing to do with sitting down or attention span
I can play a walking sim or a visual novel for hours. Turn based combat is just an inherently unsatisfying abstraction that's extremely unimmersvive

>>745585823
>i've hated jrpgs because they looked cheap
You are kinda right about the rest but you are an absolute subhuman for this take in the big 26 god damn anon.

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>>745583506
>It's a zoomer thing.
This. No, you're retarded.

>Hate turn based combat
Absolutely, that's why Star Rail is making more money than basically any game not called Minecraft or GTA.

>Hate games without voice acting.
This, so much this. That's why 90% of all content in all of miHoYo games, which made the company enough money they are bigger than Ubisoft/SEGA/what-have-you, is just unvoiced text.

>Hate exposition.
Need I say more?

>Hate 2D graphics.
A well know and hard fact. That's why endless piles of indieshit like Vampire Survivors make bajillions.
This thread is about making fun of how absurdly out of touch Square Enix execs are, but you, anon, make them look like the most popular and hyp kid in the entire school, class of 2036.

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>>745585896
>E33 is literally popular simply cause it doesn't look like ps1 game unlike it's competition

>>745585952
>I can play a walking sim or a visual novel for hours. Turn based combat is just an inherently unsatisfying abstraction that's extremely unimmersvive
Visual novels are turn based though? One character talks, then the other.

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>>745584024
It's hard to be strategic when there's barely any variable that you need to juggle because the battle screen comprises of static sprites and some menus. The fire boss is weak to Ice, whatchu gonna do? Your two damage dealers and you are gonna spam your strongest Ice spell / attack every turn while your healer will prep Fire Resistance or party-wide heal or focus heal. Or maybe one of your unit will sacrifice a turn every now and then to use Increase Party Atk or Lower Enemy Def/Res. But the battle will mostly be occupied with you spamming the same damaging moves every turn. Unlike in tactical/strategy turn based games, you don't need to think about how to navigate the map, where to position your units, where the enemy units are positioned at, are the enemies within your attack range, what the initiative/turn orders for all units on the map look like and how should you plan your move accordingly, will you overextend and get flanked, etc.

>>745585508
But then it's just FF12, and people hated that too.

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>>745585970
>gachaslop

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>>745585965
dude having a cool png is only excusable on cartridges, by 2026 you have the bandwith to at least throw a couple of boxes and barrels around for fuck's sake. There are RPG MAKER GAMES with better use of tilesets to create an appealing image than AAA jrpgs

>>745585994
>E33
>>745585896

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>>745581263
Final Fantasy 16 is hands down one of the most boring games I've ever played in my entire life, and I'm not a weeb. You'd think this game was tailored made for me, but I'd rather play literally any other Final Fantasy instead of this one.

Fucking 14 minute long flashy boss battle cutscenes where you only press a SINGLE button every minute or two. FUCK this game, I'm getting mad thinking about it.

>Expect turn-based game
>Get rhythm-based one-shot fiesta
So they copied south park of all things and people call it revolutionary.

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>>745586101
again, actual indie games made by like two japanese women (furyu, so crystar, crymachina, monark) look exactly as bad as AAA company jrpgs. For the genre with coolest character and monster designs maybe they can hire at least a single background artist?

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>>745586004
>It's hard to be strategic when there's barely any variable that you need to juggle because the battle screen comprises of static sprites and some menus.
Blobs of two colours to represent your units and the enemies and a way to select/communicate your move is all you need if the game is well designed.
What you are talking about is not a turn based game problem but a "most jrpgs are glorified VNs with braindead combat" problem. There are ways to make 4 niggas in a row JRPG combat interesting, but most games just don't do it.
You can find unengaging shallow games in any gaming genre be it turn based or real time.

>>745586074
You're such a subhuman you don't even realize why the previous post was a subhuman take anon.

>>745584440
The thing that really pisses me off about pokemon is that if you want some challenge you need to play a ballbusting romhack made by some autist. I wish there was a middle ground between official games and difficulty romhacks

>>745584208
>>745582964
Samefagging doesn't make your shit correct.
Persona 5 is a consistent top seller.
Final Fantasy doesn't have your anime "tropes" either.

>>745579747
What the Japanese fail to realize is that E33 success isn't because it's a turn based RPG, but it's a reasonably high quality game that has that realistic UE5 slop that the west loves. Anime gives normies the 'ick unless your game lets you date teenage characters like Persona 4/5 but shhhh don't let your friends know because you'll be called a pedo.

>>745586235
i would agree if the game offered anything besides graphics. But no, it's genuenly the only well made part of jrpgs, and even it looks bad in half of the gameplay. Unironically at least bloodstained: ritual of the night tried. It ended up looking like a western porn game, but it tried

>>745586289
>E33 success isn't because it's a turn based RPG,
wrong, nigger
all japan needs to do is make a good turn based jrpg again and they;'ll be king

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>>745586172
E33 for comparison

>>745586289
Persona 5 has literally sold more than E33 dumbass.

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>>745586326
Stellar art direction.

>>745586470
>claire's expedition
lmao

>>745586250
Pokemon is a bit too simple to make it challenging unless you are pushing it to the limit like on romhacks or playing against another person, especially on regular battles which for some reason is still the main type of battle you do even though the official multiplayer mode is doubles.
The reason is that, with the game being simple, making any major mistake is essentially just handing over a free W to any competent player because they won't blunder like that and will just ride out the advantage and the AI is too retarded to answer your moves correctly all the time so you need to give it retardedly strong teams to make up for it or else it will get trashed.

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>>745586326
meanwhile for reverse comparison, drakengard 2, a ps2 musou game with fifty+ enemies on screen, having the same fucking shit world graphics as 2020s jrpgs with one-five enemies on screen at the same time

>>745586348
It's at 11 million after TEN years and rereleases anon.
e33 is 8 million in ONE.
Also established ip with tons of goodwill vs first game of a new company

>>745579747
two more weeks and people will love action combat JRPGs

>>745586553
>it doesn't count
Cope. You lost Westroon. This bias against anime aesthetics you mention is fictitious. It doesn't exist.

>>745586517
Makes sense, thanks for explaining

>>745586590
See you again in 10 years?
In the same time period, E33 DEMOLISHED p5.

>>745586553
>Also established ip with tons of goodwill
Oh so people love Persona now? lmao make up your mind, do people hate anime or is it beloved?

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>>745581383
>immense cultural legacy
What? Final Fantasy X was the first Final Fantasy game that wasn't universally praised at release as much as the previous ones.

>>745586553
>established ip with tons of goodwill

To be fair, Persona 5 was the first one for normies. The last 2 games were on psp and psvita (p4g, p3p) which are not normie systems.

It's disingenous to csay persona was an established IP with tons of good will. Most peoples first persona is 5.

>>745586731
>persona 4 was not for normies
stop kidding yourself

>>745586731
And coincidentally, lots of people's fist persona was 4, which made them buy 5.
Do you think persona got popular out of nowhere or something?

>>745586731
Persona is like TES and GTA, the series became big with the 3rd entry but 5th one is by far the most popular one. and the 6th game is never coming out

>>745586767
It might have been but normies didn't really play it man. 4 didn't get nominated for big awards, It was a ps2 game that came out when ps3 was in it's second year. It was an under the radar release that was bigger in Japan than the west. Persona is now probably moving equal units in the east and west.

>>745586805
>Lots of people's fist persona was 4,
And?

I'm saying MOST peoples first persona is 5. I understand lots played 4. The game didn't become a game of the year contender or even the type of game to get nominated for awards and discused in the normie-sphere until 5. This is just true.

Most people use 5 as a jumping off point because it was released on a home console that was actually out and new like the ps4. In the west the handhelds weren't as popular that is a given. That likely has a lot to do with why 5 is the most popular in the west.

>>745586813
I dont pay TES, but if it's Like GTA and Persona, 4 is the one is the best

>>745587130
for me it goes like this
>gta
4>3>5
>tes
I only played skyrim lol
>persona
3>5>4

Square releases multiple turnbased rpgs every year
What’s with all the bitching?

>>745583359
This is absolutelu correct, but nostalgiafaggots will cling to 80s tier gameplay and prop it up as the ultimate RPG experience, when it's always been nothing but an approximation and concession

>>745582776
>They don't like it for the turn-based gameplay.
ok so how come they didn't give a fuck about Strikers then? Strikers is a good non-turn based P5 game and nobody bought it, or at least only a fraction compared to P5

>>745587316
Because it's a musou
Also a niche genre

>>745585970
>Gachatrash
People don't play gacha to enjoy "playing a game". You fucking retard.

people who hate rpgs and tbc are retards, as proven by jumping to graphixfagging
>yo bros, dnd would be so much better if you just LARPd the whole time, it's what yhe original creators envisioned!

>>745583918
>i dont care
>but ill leave the thread open and respond to you because i dont care that youre replying to me

>>745582852
It is, turn based is comfy cause I can have a streamer in the background and not lose focus, I can check my phone mid fight and nothing bad will happen, I can alt tab whenever I want to post here. Turn based is comfy

>>745587359
which is niche because people don't give a fuck about action RPGs compared to turn-based ones, proving my point

Baldur's Gate 3 but anime would mindbreak the entire world

>>745585574
>Make five flops in a row
>Turn-based games like BG3 and E33 do extremely well
>"I believe him"
You are as retarded as he his.

>>745586250
The harsh truth is you're just not above the casuals you're hating on, git gud.

>>745587496
It is an easy mistake to make, just like turn based JRPGs are not meant to be played for their gameplay.

The only thing hated more than turnbased combat is tab target combat. I enjoy both.

>>745587562
retard souls games are action rpgs, monster hunter are action rpgs, dragon's dogma are action rpgs, every single final fantasy game since 4 are action rpgs, xenoblade are action rpgs...

>>745587562
and musou isn't even a fucking action rpg, it's a brainsless buttonmasher usually without story about numbers going up and that's it. It's a sauceless genre just like almost all turn based rpgs are

>>745587592
The thing is, I'm not hating on anyone. I find the official games boring (I only played gens 1-4 but I can't imagine it gets better in the later games). If someone enjoys those games as they are good for them, I just wish that there was a middle ground

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>>745583490
>JRPG
>a game that engages you mentally instead of through adrenaline
Nigga, JRPG is literally the genre for overworked wagie Nipponeses to turn their brains off and watch cinematic battle animations with a single button press.

>atb is action
.........

>>745587730
>every single final fantasy game since 4 are action rpgs

lol

Mario is a platform rpg

>>745587586
Well, they did jizz their pants when they found out that they could pickpocket NPCs using one of the characters in Octopath Traveler.

>>745584703
Picking up coins is the same thing as gaining stats, too. You even get more survivability for every 100 you pick up. Don't get me started about how the toad houses can give you item powerups to use later.

In a sense, World of Warcraft is the world's most popular fighting game. You basically fight stuff in it.

>>745587535
You're a manchild. Hope this helps!

>>745583284
Stop playing DQ and FF and try SaGa Scarlet Grace
Or Etrian Odyssey
Or Genius of Sappheiros
There are lots of turn based games that have real gameplay once you start looking for games that aren’t called Dragon Quest or Final Fantasy

>>745579747
It's because they're Japanese. Just look at how the western goy media treated AIslop33 lol. It was complete trash

>Game has 7 party members
>SIKE YOU CAN ONLY USE 4
I actually hate it
Also make combination attacks a regular feature
Yes, I am asking for 7-person varied combination attacks learned only by doing sidequests.
Yes it should also apply to enemies

>>745590864
Enchant Farm is great. Too bad it has one of the most obnoxious shills/schizos on 4chan.

>>745591014
That’s a fun game but I do think it would be better if it hadn’t used Pokemon types with slight alterations.