Why are RPG cities still so small? The largest that isn't procedurally generated is Novigrad with 130 enterable buildings, but that's a tiny number compared to a real medieval city. It should not be that hard to make a giant city in an RPG.
>>746013712Educated people aren't very imaginative.
>>746013712What's the point? I'm not going to enter every peasant's boring ass house.
>>746013712>It should not be that hard to make a giant city in an RPG.it is thoughthere's also the question of what is the point
>>746013891Because it's fun? Same reason it's fun to have a bunch of NPCs in GTA or whatever. It makes the world feel real.
>>746013962>Because it's fun?It is absolutely the opposite of fun. Please never design games.
>>746013712open games relying on anything approaching "realistic" scale are simply self-defeating, but you are free to play just cause and/or daggerfall and report back with your own opinionyou can get into various kinds of autism-sims, which are in large capacity procedural and are all about robust mechanics, if you want complex simulated environmentyou can see miniatures of cities and castles and such in RPGs because those are MINIATURES, with the all the (alleged) handcrafted and meticulously designed detailand then you have limited levels taking place in limited areas, and implying the existence of more elaborate parts that the player is simply not visiting
>>746013962No bro it's not 'fun' to walk through 17 streets of generic medieval houses to get to the one place that actually matters to you instead of just 2
>>746014051Dunno man, Daggerfall sold 700k copies back in the 90s and you could do a lot better with modern tech.
>>746014186It actually unironically is fun. Play Daggerfall. Now imagine Daggerfall with good writing and much more handcrafted.
>>746014215I didn't play Daggerfall, but I fast traveled fucking everywhere in Arena and would probably do the same in DFall.>you could do a lot better with modern techIt would be Star Citizen levels of budget and dev hell
>>746013712Only GTA 6 has a city that actually feels like a city. Even recent games like Crimson Desert, despite having a pretty large world, has pathetically small "cities".
>>746013712>t.can't rotate a breakfast he didn't eatJust keep playing ball games mate, imagination is not your forte.
>>746014278Just keep it 2D or at most Morrowind-tier 3D. The production values are secondary.
>>746014301That's a fun one, people should make those kind of comparisons more often
>>746014283>GTA 6 has a city that actually feels like a citytrvke
For some reason, Witcher 2 is filled with enterable buildings with absolutely nothing to do. Whole areas that are unused.
>>746013712because you've never made a game before
>>746013712It's true, it's rare and shouldn't be 'hard' per se, but it's simply extremely tedious to do and extremely tedious to play through, while also being extremely demanding of the engine if you add any interactive objects in there. Most of the time it's also a really lame copy+paste work, even Witcher does that. There's no reason to handcraft dozens of houses that most players simply aren't going to enter, you could be spending your time making something fun instead.It's boring, has little to no payoff(adventurers probably shouldn't rob people of their broken rakes, food scraps and other shit like Geralt does), tanks performance OR visuals. Has no real gameplay to it, it ain't Thief you're playing.Why would you want to snoop around 1000 boring old peasant houses instead of a dungeon or a cave or alternate dimension in the first place? I think everyone accepts that you should only be able to enter a few houses where there ARE interesting things happening instead. Like an ally's house, a house where you investigate a murder mystery, a store, a secret drug den, etc. All the other ones should simply be there as static unopenable doors, a mere implication of enough room to house all the NPCs, nothing more.
>>746013712You're such an unitelligent retard. No one wants to play a game with hundreds of enterable buildings because those buildings would have to be filled with trash and there would be no reason to enter them. Exactly like it is in Witcher 3.
>>746013712>Why are RPG cities still so small?Because going above required minimum is autistic
If anything games need to become more focused and have better pacing, not more filler content that just wastes the players time. Make games much shorter.
>>746013712Isn't Midgar from FF7 Remake bigger than Novigrad?
>>746013712>It should not be that hard to make a giant city in an RPG.Yes, it would, especially if you want at least most buildings to be actual ones instead of decorations. And add those thousands of NPCs, then complain that most are generic ones instead of "unique". Or how entire game is one big city because developers have limited resources.>b-b-but Daggerfall!
>>746013712KCD has like 1:1 scale medieval cities and they're not much larger than a lot of fantasy rpg cities.
>>746014051No you are full of shit, we want larger and more complex worlds
>>746014879Not a free-roam city.
You can enter every building in Crimson Desert. And I'm pretty sure its biggest city is about as big as Novigrad.
>>746015230Kuttenberg has 1500 NPCs and is all the more interesting for it.
>>746014785People have been saying this for decades, yet people have been craving huge games more and more. Even Zelda ditched the linear format for a huge open world.
>>746015284>we want larger and more complex worldsNTA. True. But bigger and more complex worlds doesn't mean bigger cities where you can explore every house.
>>746015468Yes it does, that's part of the world. GTA 6 leaked map looks small and pathetic. No ambition.
>>746014259>imagine daggerfall but without the things that define it
>>746015527Can you explain why do you want to enter every single apartment?
>>746015713Because it's part of the world and I want NPCs to live in those apartments. I want to be able to inside and interact with them.
>>746015776Too vague. What exactly do you want?They'll probably react with hostility or call the cops on you anyway.
>>746015776Play shadows of doubt if you haven't yet. Janky as fuck and will never be finished, but it does have like 18 floor apartment buildings where every room is modeled and furnished and has people living inside it and going about their lives.
>>746014879It's not quite open world, but generally speaking, yes. I mean you'll see tons of cities that are unfathomably big, yet you only explore but a mere fraction of it. FF13 shows you fantastically large cities, yet it's all inaccessible to you.
>>746015973realism, yes it should make them hostile or call the cops
>>746015306>enter every buildingNope, only about 2/3, which is a lot, but nowhere near all. And none of them actually contain anything interesting, though that can always be addressed in future patches, if they decide to. And Demeniss is pathetically small. It's only about 1/3 the size of Novigrad at best. And Vice Dale alone is easily over 10x as large.
>>746013712Because ultimately, nobody gives a fuck. Nobody is going to avoid buying a game precisely because they're not able to go into generic house template #5.It's not technology beyond reach, it's nothing special to include it, it's simply a waste of time implementing.All you need to do is use wave function collapse to generate interiors in engine to bake the housing data for the game. But doing so pumps up the requirements since you're storing all this data on RAM, so now you're making your game harder on RAM so that some moron can larp and pretend he cares about being able to go into every building.
>>746013712Because games need to be 8k with extremely high definition textures, instead of having working mirrors, realistic cities, thousands of NPCs, etc
>>746015284Don't worry goyboy, we'll have AI-generated open-world sloppa with REAL cities in which every home is enterable and handcrafted by ChatGPT, including dynamic NPCs who all have unique dialogues, spell checked by an actual English Lit graduate. Total play time will be 100s of hours and you zoomer fucks are going to LOVE it, believe me.
>>746016843I don't want AI slop, I want AAA games to think bigger.
>>746013712That would be a monumental waste of dev time.
>>746014215Daggerfall had 98% procedurally generated locations and the vanilla version is heavily mogged by Daggerfall unity
Saw Daggerfall mentioned so I was inspired to do the math.According to Google there's 5090 towns/cities and 4400 homes/farms. Together that's 9490. Each city is comprised of 36 "blocks" which each have about 12 enterable buildings. So one city (Daggerfall city for example) should have 432 enterable buildings. Of course this isn't uniform because castles can take up several blocks (Sentinel) and not every town is as big as every city and it's certainly not the case with homes/farms who are typically 1 block. With that in mind, taking only homes/farms into consideration, there should be 52800 enterable buildings. Let's dial it down to a cool 50000 because some of those farms only have 1 building. As for cities and towns there should be a maximum of 2198880 buildings which we'll dial down to a generous 2 million taking into account towns can sometimes be smaller than 8x8 and cities not utilizing all blocks.Tl;didn't-care: Daggerfall has 2,050,000 enterable residential buildings which can roughly house 0.136986301% of the Indian population.
>>746016049>daggerfall>shadows of doubt >both procedural generation for their mapsSo, OP wants games with procedural generation?
>>746017121Well the game has 750k NPCs, so you're probably in the right ballpark
>>746017000You're a fucking retard who has no concept of budget or devtime if you think any of the things you want are realistically possible without just shitting them out via AI, or going back to Daggerfall days of everything being cookie cutter procedurally generated.
>>746013962You're all that's wrong with modern gaming you absolute bore.
>>746017320not my problem
People always want things until they actually get them.
>>746013712Because they are pointless and serve no purpose when it comes to the most important aspects of a game, which is gameplay.So you make this Rpg with several big cities, which take an unusual lot of effort btw, and other than just being "cool" they serve no other purpose. Wow it's a big city, it is cool. Spent millions making it for nothing.
>>746017320What's the difference between the two, honestly?
>>746017204No but it's easier to do it that way
