Why did this filter so many gaymers? What you uploaded was a copy. It was never a coin toss.
>>746070598simon was just unlucky and it would've been better if they shown what happened to him if the coin toss was successful
>>746070598>What you uploaded was a copy. It was never a coin toss.t. copy
It asks you to do the wrong thing. If you did so you do not belong on v. If there is no ability not to do the wrong thing then don't play further.
>>746070832did you read the OP stupid? there was never a coin toss. you're the filtered retard the OP is talking about.
who is more obnoxious: somafags or specops the linefags
Reminder Simon is literally retarded. Like the game explicitly states he has severe brain damage that causes cognitive issues for him, its why he signs up for the experimental copying in the first place. You play the entire game from the perspective of his second copy, with memories of his original life up until it was copied into the first body, and then its memories until you get the second body. That's where you say while a third copy is uploaded at the endOnly a person with equal amounts of brain damage would have issues following this
>>746070993it's explicitly said in the game that there's a coin toss and we've seen different versions of simon where the cointoss worked where he has to go back and kill the older souls of simon
>>746071087>t. severely brain damaged dude in toronto
>>746071149when you actually play the game and don't watch it on youtube, you'll understand
>>746070598>be Catherine>watch you supposedly world class level scientist colleagues kill themselves off one by one to reach a cyber heaven they logically know they can't enter>soul dies on inside>upload self>uploaded self has one final retard wrangling missionThe context behind their relationship is pure kino
The coin toss was so retarded
>>746071328they should've just gone one way or the another. either it works or it doesn't
>>746071058It's so obvious it feels like people are trolling with the coin flip. You experience the entire game through the memories of winning copy simon only switching to losing copy simon at the very end.
>>746071205This guy believes everything schizophrenics say because if they said it, its true
>>746071395There was never a winner or loser, the game was just trolling a bit with the perspective shift before going into the abyss.
There are people that can't see the apple, have no inner monologue, and believe they ever had a chance. They walk among you and vote.
>>746071328>>746071389there was no coin toss you retards. the coin toss was a way for kathrine to tardwrangle simon into launching the ark. simon had brain damage; what's your fuckin excuse?
>>746071508they voted for trump
>>746071395You are a single iteration of Simon through the entire game. >>746071515This
>>746071515I'm black it's not my fault.
>>746071547No, I'm pretty sure they were herded to the booths to vote for Kamala.
>>746071592>>746071508this is the same poster. absolutely no self-awareness
The copy has the memories of the original though. From his perspective he won the "coin flip". Get fucked opIf the machine also kills you immediately after it happens there would be no negative consequences to the process. A copy is you. You are the copy.
>>746071508doesn't an inner monologue mean slower thinking?
>>746071640it'll be interesting to see where they go after trump. just imagine the mental gymnastic kino we'll see. no shame, no reflection, just low-iq "people" looking for the next way to get conned out of everything. I can't wait.
The consciousness swap was so seamless that the current events could very well be the copy remembering the events prior to the upload. That's what the coin toss means, its a 50/50 if the perspective of events is the copy or the original.
The question presented by Ross and the Mockingbirds about the WAU shitting out people trapped in awful broken robot bodies in an attempt to create a human construct that works that could potentially unfuck things, but at a very slow rate of iteration with a low chance of success is a far more interesting question than a crappy character study of a retard being a retard, but they go out of their way to avoid giving it any screentime to the point that I know for a fact at most maybe one or two people in this thread will even recognize those names, much less have any opinion on it. Those side character make it clear Frictional understands that there is no coin flip and that Simon is just retarded, but it doesn't matter when 4 hours and 58 minutes of the 5 hours of dialogue is dedicated to it anyway.
>>746071707wrong
>>746071508>tranimetroon thinking xirs not retarded like themlolmao
>>746071779Good post. Too good for this thread honestly
>>746071648>From his perspective he won the "coin flip"Not really, if he had an IQ above average he would instantly conclude that he just came into existence. At least at the point in the game where he realizes the original is still alive
I truly don’t understand the “there was no coin toss” idiots. Of course there’s a coin toss. Copy your body through 100 generations and ask all the final generation of copies>how often did you move to a new body, and how often did you stay in your old body?The distribution would be indistinguishable from the distribution of 100 successive coin toss outcomes>b-but the new bodies aren’t REALLY youNo body is REALLY you, you are your consciousness, not the meat robot it pilots. When a consciousness is duplicated, a self-locating uncertainty moment occurs.When “you win the coin toss”, another you also loses it. That this is a fact doesn’t make the inherent randomness of Who You Are after a duplication any less random.
i never knew that a game as lovely as Soma could spawn so much hilarious shitflinging, if you've ever copied and pasted a file on a computer you'd know it was never a coin toss
tomorrow, I will make them remember
I own this game and didnt realize until I was randomly going through my big ass games list on Steam yesterday.
>>746071707>seamlessThe first Simon copy is literally sitting in the fucking chair 5 feet away from you in the Omicron lab asking what's going on before Catherine hits him with 1 quintillion gigavolts. It's very obviously a copy and not a transfer. This is played at with the guy you torture for the access codes by repeatedly killing him; you're making a new one each time and the entire point is to highlight the Schopenhauer question of asking at what point creating new suffering is worth is worth the pain. The game's philosophy is not about perspective, that shit is set dressing for the personal horror Simon experiences as a moron dunked into a nightmare.
>>746071779>WAUI always wondered if it would potentially create a full-on robo goo humanoid without needing a human scan at all. Like it could jumpstart a new "race" of goo-android people to survive the surface and try to fix the planet.
>>746071779The wau was just kind of fucking around with uploading people into robots. It initially had the idea for what the scientists called "the vivarium" where it would steal brain scans and then upload them into a little box. This idea was then molded into the ARK project. The wau realized that it was no longer getting fresh shipments of food and supplies so it realized it couldn't keep humans alive anymore, and thus had to figure out how to fulfill it's directives when it couldn't keep the organic human body alive. It stole brain scans and then killed off humans who were scanned to save resources. If it hadn't scanned you yet and you were critically injured it would step in to try and keep you alive. The various people you meet uploaded to robots are just some experiments the wau did to try and keep people alive in one way or the other. It didn't make Simon to try and fix anything, it was basically just kind of fucking around seeing what worked.
>>746071556>You are a single iteration of Simon through the entire gameYou are not. You are real Simon in the intro, his first backup for most of the game, his second copy when you need a body that can withstand the water pressure, and the third copy on the Ark in the postscript. You play as 4 different Simons, the third of which is the one who Catherine gives the “lost the coin toss” speech to.
>>746072119would be pretty cool if its revealed ONTOS is the simulation all the copies were sent off to.
>>746072075distribution means nothing when there's no probability of the original being transfered. There's no 50/50 chance, it doesn't exist
>>746070598The main problem is that the game believes in the coin toss when that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. So if you don't realize that, both that the coin toss is fake and that the game thinks its real, you're left extremely confused by everything the story says
>>746072286Everything up until the third copy are just memories. You just play as an unreliable narrator because he is literally too dumb to understand he's being led along to launch the arc
>>746071058Given that half of people who played this couldn't even understand what was actually happening and took everything at face value , I think he was a pretty good stand in for the player. I'm surprised the rest call him outright stupid rather than being wishful and placated by the only person he thinks he can trust. She's clearly leading him on and a lot of people fell for it just like he does. The real idiots are the ones who somehow managed to see the ending of the game and still believed there was a coin flip
you nerds ever watch Star Trek? know when they use that little transporter thing? they're effectively killing you, to recreate a carbon copy of you (atom by atom). that's effectively what Simon experienced, only in SOMA, you're duplicated, and the original you is still left behind.
>>746072312>distribution means nothing when there's no probability of the original being transferedThe original IS transferred. That’s how a copy is made. The data is duplicated; where before ther was one, now there is two. The data is objectively transferred; how else did it get there? It’s just that transferring data into a new instance doesn’t get rid of the old instance.Pic related: which of these is the “real path” and which one is the “side branch”? It’s a nonsense question. The path forks. One becomes two. Each has an equally valid claim to the portion of the path leading up to it, despite both being distinct from that point forward.The “coin toss” is not about what happens according to an outside observer, it’s about your experience. Will YOU be the one in the new body, or the one who stays behind? There are two outcomes, so it’s a 50/50 chance. You could confirm this empirically by asking the resulting Simons and keeping a tally as you repeat the experiment.
>>746072475There was an episode where that happened in trek also
>>746071640
>>746070832If you mean, show what happens to the uploaded brain scan, the ending I saw showed that. But again it wasn't luck.
Catherine never calls it a coin toss. Simon uses the coin toss as a metaphor and Catherine doesn't really correct him because it's comforting for Simon to believe. She just needs him to stay focused on getting to the ARK she doesn't really need him getting hung up on the details.
>>746072313>The main problem is that the the game believes in the coin tossyou are so fucking retarded. the only one who believes it is Simon. The game pretty much spells it out to you when Simon is transferred to the diving suit. The only reason we keep seeing Simon's perspective as he goes through the story is for narrative purposes.
>>746072485> Will YOU be the one in the new body, or the one who stays behind? There are two outcomes, so it’s a 50/50 chanceWrong, the person who enters as the original always remain, the person who exits out of the "cloned" chamber just came into existence. And again, a distribution doesn't prove probability
>>746071515That's not just a brain damage thing, If someone knew what fate they actually faced in that situation they might be unmotivated to work towards a greater good.That's kind of what happens in Interstellar too.
>>746071087Filter is still working all these years later
>>746072485you are a fantastic example of the Dunning-Kruger effect
>>746070598you weren't filtered if you finished it and disliked the endingthough i'd admit, retards being as confused as simon not understanding that the coin toss was a lie from the get go, was really funny
>>746072621>the person who exits out of the "cloned" chamber just came into existenceThat’s only true if you think your physical body is what constitutes YOU, rather than your memories and continuity of experience. You would, I am sure, be mortified to learn that your body is composed ENTIRELY of atoms that were not a part of you 10 years ago. No single part of your body is constant. The “copy” is no less you than the “original”. They both have the EXACT same memories and continuity of consciousness up to the moment of duplication.The idea that one is “real” and one is “fake” is a conceit based on the assumption that your material body is somehow the core of your being, which is fucking hilarious for a game about a digital brain backup piloting a robot suit.
>>746072485The original path is the one that was made first. The second is the one that gets built after. Neither could be built at the same rate at the same time, therefore the original can always be identified by someone who was involved, in this case the observers being scanned. The original Simon is the one that gets scanned. The copy is the one the scan is uploaded to. The the coin-flip argument is equivalent to Zeno arguing that motion is impossible and Diogenes retorting simply by walking away. It attributes a micro-scale hypothetical to a functional and understood system that simply doesn't work as granularly as the hypothetical requires.
>>746072617Don't bother. The people arguing can't even understand the point of the game, let alone the subtlety of human interactions.
the coin toss is whether you are the original who is about to be copied or the clone who simply remembers being the original who is about to be copiedyou can't know which one you're going to be until it happens
>>746072783Your material body is the perspective from which all previous memories came from. The new body is the copy, and the continuity of consciousness does not change the source of that consciousness.
>>746072783I don't have continuity of experience since I sleep 1/3 of my life and I also can't remember 99% of my life. What we're talking about is obviously consciousness, not memories. You don't become a new person if you lose all your memories
>>746072691true. the other side of the coin(hehe) is that yeah simon is trying to cope by banishing thoughts of his hopeless situation; if it wasn't for Catherine he would have just killed himself. but i felt it futile to even mention this to the retards.
>>746072912wrong
>>746072737>newfag uses his favorite buzzphrase#gottem
>>746071508>>746071462Simon infuriated me for not clueing in what was going on. Mf was a bumbling embodiment of dramatic retard irony. However seeing this thread, it seems his personality and understanding of the situation was crowd tested.
>>746072836So if I pave a road, and then I put a fork in that road that goes another direction, but then I re-pave the older road, does it become the fork from that point forward because it’s no longer the “oldest”?This is not just pedantry, it matters because your body works this way. You are a Ship of Theseus, constantly being repaired and replaced until no part of you remains. You are not a THING. You are a river; a constantly changing series of things that only gets described with a noun because of the boundaries around it. Your consciousness is all that you are, and consciousness is not materially bound. If your consciousness is copied, both the original and the copy are equally “The Real You”.
>>746072912another filtered retard KEK
why does the game put you forward as taking control of every copy, all except for the very last one for no reason whatsoeverjust so fucking stupid
>>746072912>have your brain scanned>suddenly wake up 100 years later underwater>step out of a cloning vat>someone literally tells you you're a clone>"uuuh how am I supposed to know which one I am???"
>>746073075Holy irony. Simon is the one coping by believing he can transfer his single immutable consciousness to a new body. We aren't coping by understanding the themes of a story better than you
>>746073019No. The one that initiated the copying process is and always will be the original. The one produced as a result of the copying process is, drumroll, the copy.
>>746072990I'll use what ever phase I want to you nigger faggot. Now filp a coin and decide weather to blow your brains out or to do a back flip off a bridge.
>>746073119You were always the diving suit clone, everything prior to that moment are memories and you stay with that body after the final copying.
>>746072929>You don't become a new person if you lose all your memoriesSuppose that you had a backup of your brain made. And then shortly thereafter, you suffered a head injury that caused severe retrograde amnesia and you remembered nothing about who you were. So they took your brain backup and spun it up it into a braindead body.Do you think the brain backup, which has your memories and identity, is less YOU than the semi-vegetable who can’t remember his own name or address or anything else?If so: why? What does the brain zombie have that the coherent brain backup lacks?
>>746071592>>746071547They were the people who thought either of those corrupt retards were going to fix anything.
>>746072912no, you retard. the coin toss was made up so simon kept thinking he wasn't getting fucked in the ass everytime a mental copy was made>>746073146i missquoted you, sorry
>>746072912>remembers>going to beThe copy can't remember shit until it has been created. There's no future tense here. If the copy is remembering then the copying has already happened.
>>746073119>why does the game put you forward as taking control of every copyAs the first person to be scanned, Simon was used as a test mind literally millions of times. It's why he's able to be resurrected at the bottom of the ocean decades later. He's basically the debug mind that people upload to test shit. What we see in-game is the memories of just one particularly interesting version of him.
>>746073198ahhh, that's good, very smart. I get the feeling that the Devs didn't intend for this to be the case though.
I am me in a houseIf a copy of me is made that then goes out, I am still me in the houseThe copy is a separate entity that does its own thing, you don't become that other you remain in the houseThe game switched your perspective to another entity with continuous memories
>>746073119cause the game needed to keep goinghow hard is to grasp?
>>746073119Because the game would have ended with you in a toronto hospital with brain aids. Similar to your own end.
>>746073269I mean that was my interpretation when I first played it a decade ago. I cannot say for certain if its what they intended but it sure seems that way
>>746073219>If so: why? Because, as you yourself said, it's not me. It's the backup.
>>746073219Yes, I'm literally the person who can't remember his own name or address. Do you even have a consciousness, how is this even confusing to you?
actually i'm also conscious when i'm sleeping, i just don't realize it
>>746073160I never said that wasn’t true. I’ve used the terms original and copy, same as you. My point is the copy is just as much YOU, because it has all the things that make you YOU. Your identity has nothing to do with your body. You aren’t in the same body you were born with. Your identity is an amorphous thing tied to experience and memory and if you copied it, it would copy YOU. The end result would still be YOU.If I have the novel War and Peace on my computer, and I duplicate that file, there is an original file, and a copy file. They are distinct. But they are both still exactly equally War and Peace. One is not somehow “not the real novel”, because the novel is defined by the words that constitute it, and they both have the exact same words.
>>746071508people who can't see the apple have a higher average iq btw
>>746073269you always get the copied simon pov, though
>>746073256yeah, but the copy will think that he was the original just a few seconds ago.
>>746073409It's more you because the original is the perspective that formed that consciousness. The copy is a copy, no matter how perfect. It's a firsthand account rather than a secondhand one
>>746073469Depends how retarded he is
I'm surprised no one remembers this cartoon. It's pretty damn relevant to Soma's entire premise and the whole "coinflip or no coinflip" debacle.https://youtu.be/KUXKUcsvhQc?si=v8rz7n3SM9G0RHJV
>>746073337no I thank you, that has completely eliminated an annoyance in my mind with the game, thumbs up
do people still don't get how mental copies work?
>>746073428I mean if you beat the game thats clearly not true. So I have no idea why you have married this idea as some kind of irrefutable fact when the game literally shows otherwise
>>746073409But we're not talking ethical or moral principles, or which instance of your personality has more of a claim to humanity. We're talking about the continuity of a given individual consciousness. Different things.
>>746073585>I mean if you beat the game thats clearly not true.you get the human povyou get the first copy povyou get the second copy povyou get the ark pov
i don't think the wau is doing anything interesting desu, it's just doing the same thing catherine is doing but aesthetically revolting
>>746071025Gacha fags are the worst
I don't get the coin toss dilemma or whatever. >but Simon is a re-Yeah but scientists you hear in audiologs also refer to the coin toss. So there needs to be more here than Simon being a retard.
>>746073516I disagree. The conceit the game asks us to roll with is that the duplication is error free. And that’s a fair conceit; I can copy a digital file hundreds of times, it never degrades. It stays exactly the same.If I am an author, and I am writing a book, maybe I make nightly backups of my work in case something happens. If one day, my master document is corrupted, and I recover from a backup, am I now writing a different story? The original novel I was working on is gone, this is just an inferior copy now?You strike me as the sort of person who thought Nier Automata was absolutely profound.
I'm not convinced any gamers actually finished the game and literally thought it was a coin toss. All posts stating that are just trolling. That said, the mechanic is still deeper than "its a copy", the game diegetically demonstrates this multiple times. Just look at the start of the game>You wake up, are in control of simon>You go to the doctor>You walk into the brain scan machine>You then walk out, and start exploring the stationIt's completely seamless. This isn't a trick of the videogame medium either, this is what it would feel like if this could happen in real life. From the perspective of the clone its still making all of the decisions.
>>746073019Yes, in civil infrastructure the first roadway remains the main roadway regardless of which was paved most recently. Again, it's micromanagement of a problem that doesn't exist, made dumber by the fact the game explicitly tells you through your interrogation of Brandon at DUNBAT that the original is a separate entity. Each time you reset the copy you are making a new conciousness distinct from the original with no coin-flip or chance involved. THAT is what the game is about. The monsters everyone turns off before starting the game are the actual thesis - they are each unquestionably real from their perspective, but in being copies they've had their conciousness separated from free will and you're asked whether the threat of that existence is worth it in the face of the existential threat that is the extinction of sentient life.
>>746073681you and simon are retardsthere's no coin toss
>>746070832and they did
>>746073625The continuity is unbroken. That’s why the game is presented the way it is. The experience is a seamless, uninterrupted flow of conscious observation straight through the copying process.
>>746073690>The conceit the game asks us to roll with is that the duplication is error freeno, there is one critical error, which is that the consciousness is not transferred
The saddest thing is that all the copies and even the paradise (whatever it's called) are just mindless robots, nothing is actually experiencing anything. It's all just programming and humanity is extinct.In the game, after the first brain scan, we're watching the equivalent of security camera footage
>>746072426>I'm surprised the rest call him outright stupid rather than being wishful and placated by the only person he thinks he can trust. It's not so much that he's desperate to believe it, it's that he comes across as dense and foolish for not understanding the concept at all. He doesn't question it even once, he's just convinced "I'm the real Simon" the whole time. If it's denial instead of stupidity, they didn't do a very good job of showing it.
>>746073690>am I now writing a different story?The file is just a record, so no. That said it is a different file. Literally not the original. A different instance, created at a different time, elsewhere physically. Same contents, different vessel.
>>746073690You are writing the same story, but its still not the original master copy. There is still a definable original and duplicate, no matter how perfect. And we are more than just conciousness, in real life our minds and bodies are inseparable, but even with the sci fi conceit of "perfect duplication that do not degrade", I feel that there is always a distinction between origin and derivativeAnd yes, I said I FEEL that way, because I understand this is far too hypothetical to make definitive statements about.However I also think that the story in this video game definitively shows us that he is dying and inhabiting a new form. It's literally gameplay relevant that one version if him had to die to create the diving suit version. Well, didn't have to die but was killed to try and keep him from shitting bricks and it kinda backfires
>>746073837there's a human in the game. you kill her.
>>746073780If the continuity was unbroken there would have been no Simon stuck in the electric chair.
>>746073829It is. You do realize what the word “transfer” means, right? When you “transfer” files to a USB stick, you know your computer copies them and then after the copy is done, deletes them from the source location?“Transfer” does not imply some equivalent of physical motion. When consciousness is transferred, it’s done the way all data is transferred; by copying from source to destination.You do understand that the concept of the coin toss is not “it’s 50/50 whether or not the procedure works and you’re transferred, or it fails and you stay”, right? It’s about what you, personally, will experience?Well, you personally will experience both. But about what one specific copy/thread/fork of you will have experienced.
>>746073870>Same contents, different vessel.Exactly like Simon
>>746073721"Coin toss" is literally brought up by the staff stationed at Delta, retard lil' bro.
I'll try to explain in a way that retards will understand. The copy is THE EXACT SAME as you. The copy has the same memories, the same beliefs, the same EVERYTHING. After it is created and lives through different experiences it will stop being having THE EXACT FUCKING SAME, but in the moment that it is born, it is JUST LIKE YOU.So, if you believe that you will be transferred to the paradise, your copy believed it too. If you believe that you will stay, your copy believes it too. It's indistinguishable from you, because it's an exact copy.The coin toss analogy is fitting because of that. Yes, the original was going to stay and the copy would go, but both the copy and the original have the exact same mind, they both believe and feel the same thing.Do you get it now, retards?
>>746072485>Will YOU be the one in the new body, or the one who stays behind?It is impossible for the consciousness considering this question to become the one in the new body. The old consciousness' memories will give the illusion of continuiity to the new consciousness, but it's only an illusion.There's no chance involved. Old consciousness loses and new consciousness wins, always.
>>746074014Well yeah. He gets copied. Duh.
>>746073972yes exactlycomputers are incapable of transferring anything, they merely copy and delete. we call it transfer as a layman shorthand merely because it's more convenient to be technically wrong in ways that don't matter in our everyday lives
>>746074041Apparently in this guy's head his brain is overtaken by a new consciousness if he changes his beliefs
>>746072485I like how the game literally demonstrates this effect multiple times, but so much of /v/ (and really, internet discourse at large) is completely unable to grasp this. I really do wonder what causes it. I feel like its people are just fundamentally incapable of dealing with the fact the self isn't some perfect, unique, indivisible thing.
>>746074041But your awareness resides in the original, and the copy has its own awareness
>>746074056>The old consciousness' memories will give the illusion of continuiity to the new consciousness, but it's only an illusion.>There's no chance involved. Old consciousness loses and new consciousness wins, always.Well said.
>>746074041If you believe that you WILL anything, future tense, then the copying has not occurred yet, you are the original, you're about to initiate the copying process, and you will never ever become the copy, because you are the original.
>>746073864Anyone in that situation would be insistent that they're real. He doesn't even recognize his own body as being robotic until partway through the game. There's an argument to be made that the copied consciousness' are just as real as the original but that's another can of worms to discuss.
>>746074089> with the factit's a fact? how did you know this? where was it proven?
>>746072783There is no situation in which the old consciousness can enter the new body. The nature of consciousness is irrelevant.
>>746074034Yes, it's a coping mechanism. So they wouldn't feel like they got the short end of the bargain.Simon is a bmp fileEvery new experience is a new pixel of a random colorYou copy Simon.bmp and create Simon (1).bmpBoth files get new pixels, just different colorsIf you delete Simon.bmp, Simon (1).bmp becomes Simon.bmpBefore credits Simon.bmp keeps getting pixels at the same time as Simon (1).bmp. We don't know how long it would take Simon.bmp to run out of energyThere's literally no coin toss there. Just copies that kept being created while the older files were either deleted or let to rot.
>>746072912>you can't know which one you're going to be until it happensYes you can.You are always going to be the original who is about to be copied.The clone can look back and THINK there was a chance based on its experiences, but there never was.
Consciousness does cannot be defined scientifically so therefore it does not exist. Coin Toss or no Coin Toss it doesn't matter, the debate is pointless since it is about something that doesn't exist in reality.
>>746072912>you can't know which one you're going to be until it happensit's pretty obvious when you consider that the game isn't finished yetyou'll always "win" the coin toss, cause the game has to keep goingyou "lose" the toss at the end, cause guess what, the game ended
>>746073972>Well, you personally will experience both.No because at the moment of divergence a second individual who does not take my consciousness appears. Again, we're not talking about the moral category of individualism, or whether the copy deserves to be called human. If I, at this moment, press the button, I will never ever experience walking out of the cloning chamber.
>>746074271This.Toronto Simon didn't "lose" his coin toss and fucking drop dead in the doctor's office as an empty husk, he lived out the rest of his life and died. That was Simon. The copy that wakes up hundreds of years later didn't win shit. He just has a perspective that moved between bodies
>>746074158Even if we lack the tools to do so currently, consciousness can be described purely by physical phenomena. You've stumbled upon the thought experiment of what if "you" died every time you feel asleep, and what wakes up is a perfect copy of "you". What were your thoughts on thinking about that? How do you think those thoughts apply to SOMA?
>>746074128You are correct. The original will never become the copy. However the copy has the same mind, the copy thinks the same thing, whatever it is.The copy and the original are incapable of knowing if they are the copied or the original.It's a tricky and interesting concept. The original will always be there original, but they cannot know for sure if they still are, nor the copy can know that it's a copy.
Anyone who misunderstood how copying a file works is retarded but I can't say the devs are wholly blameless for misleading said retards with numerous times where it's explained poorly or intentionally wrong. If you have half a brain it should be obvious what's going to happen, but Catherine lies to you and Simon is either retarded or deludes himself into believing what she's saying is true. That said, Simon being stupid/delusional is part of the story. If he knew there was no way out for this version of his consciousness then he might have just given up. If he was sensible he'd understand that all you have to do is kill your predecessor each time and everything will be fine, but he seems like a pussy ass bitch so he'd probably whine about morality or being scared or something and not do it. I guess in a way Catherine was misleading Simon and (some of) the player(s) in order to accomplish her goals. I don't think I've ever seen a video game character so effectively trick people into beating their game.
Is ChatGPT conscious?
>>746070598This game is ruined now that it’s tied to the amazing digital circus
>>746074331You have an awareness of self, that you exist. This would continue as the original after the copy was made, and a new being is created that also thinks it is the main character, but its a separate entity to the original that only believes it is the same
>>746074363Who gives a shit what he thinks? He could think his ghost flew between the bodies. Shit, I could think im Jesus Christ and that doesn't make it true. We as the audience are the ones who make this judgement. He as a character, frankly, doesn't understand his situation very well
your consciousness is a result of your own brain processing, copying it doesnt fucking move the original, the copy is identical to you in all aspects but it is NOT you. I would of thought that is pretty obviousits a copy paste not a cut pastethe only possible way to 'immortalize' your consciousness is a literal brain in a jar scenarioit would be interesting to see the results of ship of theseus-ing your brain neuron by neuron by something artifical until its entirely replaced, does the consciousness just simply cease at some unknown critical point?
>>746074363>The copy and the original are incapable of knowing if they are the copied or the original.Yes they are. Hell, you can even look at the original while playing as the copy in the game.
>>746074115Yes, but at the time of their creation they have "the same awareness". They will rapidly start to differ after they both experience different things. They may think differently just minutes after the copying has happened, but at the first moment when the copy spawns in paradise, it just believes that it was you and the plan worked.
>>746073672>you get the human pov>you get the first copy pov>you get the second copy povAll memories of the second copy>you get the ark povDevelopers being retarded (or possibly second copy retreating into a delusion)
>>746074362>consciousness can be described purely by physical phenomena.can it? how?>what if "you" died every time you feel asleepi didn't. i was conscious and just didn't realize it
>>746074363the moment the concept of "memory copy" is introduced to simon, he always knows
>>746073681Yeah, those scientists were retards too
>>746070598Let's say I copy you. If i put one of you in a virtual hell and one in a virtual heaven. It doesn't matter which one I put where. You still experience both seperatly as a diverging consciousness. The game just shows you it from one POV.But what filtered me was the shit gameplay and the games story presenting the obvious as some shocking surprise.
>>746074524Its not possible for you to be simultaneously aware of being two people at once. YOU are the original, the the copy is someone else that you have no mental awareness of being
>>746074585The scientists were getting increasingly desperate, and starting coming up with all kinds of crazy ass ideas to make things seem less awful. Starting a death cult though, yeah that might've gone too far.
>>746073690A story doesn't have a consciousness
>suddenly 100 years in the future>read about how someone with your name continued to live and die 100 years ago>have a literal robot body>"Hmm yeah I'm totally the original, nothing strange going on here"
>>746071058>Simon is literally retardedTo be fair, most canadians are.
>>746074547It's electrical signals firing in our fatty brains. If you can show me a conciousness that is unbound from a physical form, maybe you'll have a point. But I think thats the fundamental misunderstanding. One anon in here (maybe you?) Feels that at the moment of copying, the beings are the same. I disagree because i think conciousness and what we define as "us" is a combination of physical and mental.
>>746073972>Well, you personally will experience both.No, my copy is not the same being as me.
>>746074536that's not how it works, thoughthe point of the game is "a person is just his memories and experiences"simon thinks he's a human until he sees himself on the mirror and his hands become robotics.the problem with copies is, he's effectivelly creating more simons. mental clones with all his memories and experiences, and then deciding if he lets them live or not.
>>746074331Consciousness is observable, but only by the individual experiencing it. It's like saying that drunkenness is not real because you cannot meaningfully observe it from an outside perspective, only the one who is drunk actually feels (and thus observes) it in a way that matters. Sure, you can see that somebody is behaving differently, you can measure their BAC and you can even scan their brain, but can we really be certain that they're not faking all of the symptoms?
>>746074707they are both you
>>746074041Everyone already understands this, but no the coin toss analogy is not fitting at all.
From my perspective, if a copy is made, then that would seem to me to be someone else. I would continue as normal with nothing changed in my sense of self or place in my original body.
>>746074757>but no the coin toss analogy is not fitting at all.well fucking duh, it's a lie the game tells you, to keep simon away from despair and keep the scientists from killing themselves before being copied
>>746074741>but can we really be certain that they're not faking all of the symptoms?Yes actually
I realized the issue is that the posters here just think of consciousness as a physical thing tied to your body, and people who are disagreeing really think of consciousness in terms of psychological continuity.
>>746074363There's no existential question about who the original is. Simon watches his first copied body get zapped - the smouldering body in the MIND-CLONER 9000 is obviously the original in this case. There's a mockingbird that specifically shows that people are NOT one and the same at the time of copying because she thinks she's in the ark - the original wouldn't get up and wonder the same thing. She understands she's a copy but is wrong about the circumstance as she's been turned into a toaster with nothing but a vocalizer installed. The original and copy are clearly delineated and obviously different, equally independent people before, during and after the copy is made.
>>746074136>Anyone in that situation would be insistent that they're real.They'd rationalize and wonder and cope along those lines, definitely, but Simon doesn't even grasp the concept at all.
I used to think it was just anons trolling but now I know its just one of the outcomes from a browning world
this game seems like an exercise in how to be insufferable on the internet
>>746074751They're two separate consciousness.
>>746074778you'd be correct, cause in our reality, copies do not exist, there's no technology for thatin the game reality, they do. they are perfect copies, amounting all your memories
it would have made more sense if you stayed in the first simons body and you kept making more and more clones until there was some big battle royale segment at the end where they realize there's not enough power to sustain them all. instead Simons clone just decides to kill the other simon for no reason and even if you dont he never bothers going back to get him once hes alone
>>746074686>It's electrical signals firing in our fatty brains.but how does that arise and coalesce into the sense of self?>If you can show me a conciousness that is unbound from a physical form, maybe you'll have a point. why do i need to show you that? my point is that you don't know how the self works, yet you're claiming you do. nobody does, not me, not anyone. that's why the entire debate and philosophical arguments exist even today. it is not a settled question, there is no 'fact' that the self is fungible
>>746074893but they are both simon. from that on, they will accumulate different experiences and memories, but up until that point, they have the same ones. so if he percieved himself as simon before the copy, they are both simon
>>746073221That's why I'm pro Trump while he was hated by the uniparty
>>746074909It doesn't matter, your sense of self would remain unchanged as the original, and a new someone else is created, from your perspective. If you, the original, is killed, then your consciousness ends and thats the end of your story. You would not be aware of anything happening from that point on
>>746074967Not him but you do realize in this context we're all talking about awareness and not identity?
>>746072119was interested in this game until it was revealed it was female protag
>>746074751I'm me. The clone is an identical copy of me, but it isn't me. My consciousness resides in this body, and I experience what happens only to this body.
>>746074405It's ain't SOMA's fault that Gooseworx decided to pull out the most contradictory ending message of the decade
>>746074943No but I did at least try to define what I personally think self is, and its not just the intangible parts of our mind, but our physical selves alsoThat's the basis I use to then track who the "real" Simon is in the game. He died in Toronto. Everything else is a series of copies not a single unbreakable conciousness even if thats what its perspective may appear to be.
>>746074837You can't even be sure that they're faking it when they're faking it because psychogenic symptoms and conversion disorders exist. Somebody can literally just convince themselves they have a terminal illness and their body will go "okay" and produce the relevant symptoms in the absence of a real cause.
>>746075000Technically diving suit Simon is in a (dead) female body with lots of Wau juice applied
>>746074967They're two separate consciousness. One is the original and the other a copy. The copy will always know it is the copy because it'll remember waking up in a new body. The original will always remain the original.
>>746074994sure, that doesn't mean they aren't both simon. you are seeing it from your perspective, we all know perfect mental copies do not exist. but if a mental copy, in a copied body, with the same fears, memories, experiences and skills was made, he's also you>>746074996why is awareness even a thing? that's not what the game is talking about
>>746075021Just imagine for a second, you ended up the copy. From your perspective, you had also made all those choices and done all the actions the original has done.
>>746075063>what I personally think self isthen that's not a 'fact', that's just an opinion. you tried to claim it's a fact and found it funny how people could not grasp this 'fact', when it was merely a difference of opinion
>>746075115Yes, a copy. Not an imitation, a dopelganger or an aproximation. A perfect mental copy.That's the point
>>746075124>that's not what the game is talking aboutIt is exactly what the game is talking about and what the scientists hoped to preserve and what WAU isn't concerned with because it can create new awarenesses endlessly.
>>746070598Ain't that the TADC ending theory
>>746074396No, I am not.
>>746075124Creating a paradise would be pretty pointless without awareness. Same reason we would trample a plant but not a cat, awareness is the only difference
>>746075223They don't care about awareness, they want the human race to survive through any possible mean.They are preserving identities, memories, names and even accolades. Awareness is just a subproduct
>>746075152It's scientific fact that conciousness arises out of physical processes. My personal definition of self doesn't contradict that
>>746075456no it isn't for the simple fact that we don't even know what consciousness is
>>746075246>Creating a paradise would be pretty pointlessYes, it is pointless. The arc is pointless. A bunch of data from a handful of nobodies from an extinct race of a dying planet. That's why they show to the earth erupting in flames at the end. It's the futiliy of surivival by any means.The game is not that profound. It's nihilistic and simple. And its story is told through lies and deception. Simon is not really a retard, he's just a neanderthal compared to the other future scientists who had enough time to understand what a mental copy was, how fucked the earth is, and how little chance of survival the human race has.
WAU did nothing wrong
>>746075512But if we pretend the programs in the Arc are actually aware, conscious, then it's not much different from having children
naturalists are so lame they dont even understand what it is they actually claim to believe and regularly violate their own professed worldview with out realizing it, then get all preachy
>>746075568WAU is the crude, indomitable spirit of man and Ross and whats-her-face are the blithering developers whining about natalism and why they should be able to sue their parents for forcing them to be born and for having to get jobs. Simon is the /v/ user, not quite dumb enough to be the latter but not smart enough to make WAU proud as he watches from the doorway.
>>746075620Their awareness is artificial. Conditioned by the artificial enviroment they are given. It's just a personality trait controlled by numbers. They are only aware they are "safe" in their perfect paradise.And no, having children, with different DNA make, different memories, experiences, skills, likings and dislikings has nothing to do with having a mental clone. Arc Simon still remembers Toronto
>>746075796>different memories, experiences, skills, likings and dislikingsThey will have far more of that considering they will live there longer than a human lifespan
>>746075887Your children don't share an identic past with you, though. A mental copy does
>>746070832Firstly, it wasn't luck, that's not how a file transfer works. Secondly, they did show the POV of the copy afterward.
>>746072313I bet you get extremely confused playing tetris, gtfo
>>746071025Spec Ops has the whole metanarrative debate to get into while SOMA only has objective information about the plot, so there's not much cancer to be had in SOMA threads besides confusion about how computers work.
>>746073721It was the same with TADC fans
>>746076583never watched that shit. i'm not 12
>>746070598It makes about as much sense as "you could've been born in any country and you got lucky"That being said, while the current you would not have any betting odds on ever being another person, the prospect of a copy does actually mean that the eventual you remembering considering that does have a 50/50 chance of being the current you or the copy
>>746076643you should watch It just to be cultured about It
>>746071556Not true, there's at least one undeniable perspective switch when you see the inside of the Ark since that Simon wouldn't have memories of anything after the launch. Whether prior scenes are just memories or actual perspective switches is impossible to determine, since the memory and a real-time view would look identical until the moment of duplication.
>>746076685im sittting through episode 1 right now and this shit is pure stupid
>>746075151>Just imagine for a second, you ended up the copy. From your perspective, you had also made all those choices and done all the actions the original has done.I would share memories with the original, but the original would not be me.
>>746071779The game does dedicate its final real choice to the WAU and whether to let it continue, so there is at least some true significance given to it. What made SOMA so memorable to me and actually really fucked me up about the ending was that I didn't realize until too late how utterly doomed the Ark is. It's just a computer floating in space. No repair capabilities, no long-term plan, no interaction with the outside world, nothing. If you kill the WAU, the Ark is extinction. It'll just float through space until it wears out and the last remnant of humanity finally dies.Letting the WAU continue is the only path to a potential future for humanity in any form, no matter how distorted. I think that's the real moral question of the game. Do you hide in the comfortable lie of Catherine and the Ark, or accept hope in the ugliest form possible? It's too bad Simon is too dumb and damaged to ever fully understand what's happening.
>>746072619BZZT, Wrong! Literally every single character in the game that talks about it believes in and endorses the idea of the coin toss. There is not a single place in the game where it says its wrong, you are extrapolating your interpretation (which is correct) from a game that believes the exact reverse opposite of you.
>>746070598It is a coin toss. The Simon that died won the coinflip while the one that woke up in WAU lost it. Consequently the one that remained in WAU lost the coinflip while the one aboard the Ark won it. The only filtered midwit here is (You).
>>746072075>>746072485You can argue philosophy about this all day, but the objective, measurable reality is still that there is no movement of the original state of being. The object remains. You copy it, leaving it in place. If you separate this from some esoteric idea of "the self" and just describe the basic process performed, any ambiguity goes away. The first one is still there. You make another new one with the same information stored on it. One becomes two, but the original does not move into the duplicate. If it was an apple or a PNG we were talking about and not a consciousness, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Obviously the duplicate isn't the original, even if it's a perfect copy. They're just constructed the same.
>>746077604>satania poster>retardedname a more iconic duo
>>746077002endure it, you can do it anon. You will gain greater trolling power against the tadc faggots
>>746071328No it was perfect, the only retarded aspect is the people genuinely falling for it without the excuse of being either a digital clone of guy with brain damage or one of the last surviving humans after a mass extinction event trapped in an under water facility slowly going crazy from the stress of it all
>>746071087Wow.Im honestly surprised at people NOT understanding how the copy consciousness works.
>>746077814Brilliant counterargument. Stay midwit.
>>746072783This nigga thinks if he uploads his brain and shoots himself he'll turn into a robot.
>>746078037So if hitler was uploaded into a robot before dying you would say hitler doesn't exist anymore. See? Peak midwit. Literally cannot understand basic philosophical concepts. Imagine being you. Hahaha.
>>746077836you know what, this shit is alright. Although the tadc faggots are literally 12 years old so I dont need to watch this just to troll them.
>>746078021i'm done arguing with retards as clueless as youstill buying the "coin toss" lie, you're either clinically retarded or just trollingeither way, not worth engaging further than calling you retarded
>>746071592Miga
>>746071779A real one.
>>746078119>angry AND stupid enough to type all that shit without saying anything of substanceImagine being you. Stay midwit.
>>746078275read the thread, retard. you arrived lateyou don't get to ignore what was posted before
Soma really is an amazing game. What other peice of media exposes people as being as dumb as a brain damaged canadians? Kind of like how obsession exposes all the autists that have absolutely no idea about women and relationships
Why didn't they just cut/paste instead of copy/paste? Were they stupid??
>>746070598I thought she was just letting Simon hold on to his misinterpretation so he would comply and launch the ark, but then at the end of the game she seems genuinely pissed off that Simon didn't understand that it wasn't actually a coin toss.
>>746078369>please read what others wrote I can't support my own position after getting btfoMidwit till the end eh?
>>746070598The coin toss is merely referring to perspective continuity.
>>746078579that's how I know you're not trolling, you're a retard through and through
>>746078674Whatever helps you cope, midwit.
>>746078734okay, retard
>>746077413>Letting the WAU continue is the only path to a potential future for humanity in any formThe only future offered by the WAU is one in which the digital ghost of man are forever raped by some utterly alien intelligence guided by the final protocols given to it by some research and development company. It not only offers no meaningful future it is an active threat to what non-human life both remains and may yet arise on earth, as seen with its corruption of the fish and rats.No thinking there is any future in the WAU is just more cope, a last grasp at something, anything to place hope in. Man is dead long before Simon "2" wakes up. Life on earth has survived worse than the asteroid that has killed man, no need to make that mistake, to potentially doom all future "life" on earth to be nothing but some extention of the WAU, all done in desperation due to an unwillingness to accept what has already happened to man. As for the ark it is a thoughtful if ultimately extremely temporary headstone for all humanity, a nice gesture but not in any way a solution even slightly to the extinction of man.
>>746078764Uh oh midwit wants the last word (he's not getting it)
>>746078801sure thing, retard
Does Soma even have fans
>>746079008No, it has debaters
>>746078839Midwit gonna cry?
>>746074041>if you believe that you will be transferred to the paradise, your copy believed it tooYes, in that scenario there would be the original who is now being shown he's retarded and a copy that believes he isn't retarded, hence the ending of the game. You did not move the original file off the disc when you pirated Skyrim, you just looked at it and made a new one that worked the same. "You" are still there. The copy is a new being. It just has duplicate memories.
>>746079008As many as /v/ plays videogames
>>746070832This. Also where the fuck is this coin? It is some god coin I suppose, Simon should just get it and toss it himself, he would be the mightiest Simon in the ocean
>>746074331>if an item does not appear in our records, it does not exist
>>746074041but it isn't you if by no other virtue than having its own distinct instance of perception and tought separate from that from which it has been copied.Saying a copy getting into the ark is the same as the from which it has been copied getting in is like saying that someone's exact clone winning the lottery is the same as the original doing so
>>746078092>So if hitler was uploaded into a robot before dying you would say hitler doesn't exist anymore. NTA but it's not Hitler, it's a robot clone of Hitler
>>746070598Where the FUCK is Ontos?
>>746070598There was never a coin toss. The game only shows what happened to one of the copies of Simon. His other self was left behind on Earth. It's not that deep.
>>746079217>it's not hitler, but it's hitlerActual brain damage
Having someone else's memories doesn't make you that person. You didn't DO those things. You didn't accomplish their successes and you're not responsible for their failures or crimes. You were created with their memories but those memories are not tied to reality. YOU did not do those things. Someone else did. You did not even exist when those things were done.
>>746073119because you the player are stepping into them and looking through their eyes just as you do with the original Simon that died of brain damage not long after their brain scan over a century before the sudden creation of Simon "2" by the WAU.
>>746079253>>it's not hitler, but it's hitlerThat is not what I said at all. A robot clone of Hitler is not Hitler. It's a robot with Hitler's personality and memories. It has memories of experiences, but no actual experiences. It has done nothing.
>>746075568WAU does virtually everything wrong but it's the best option humanity has.
The more interesting question is whether we should kill the WAU or not.>pros:It creates beings that are generally satisfied with their lot. The WAU is the chance to eliminate death and disease from the world by making everything cyber enhanced.Humans were #shrekt anyway, where is the harm in trying? It'd have brought back cyber humans.
>>746079106you can have the last word, retardbaboons love keep screaming when they're left alone
It is funny for me that WAU already did the whole "upload the consciousness to the digital and live out" as a side project but unlike Arc, it didn't do it for the copies but actually consciousness in the body.
>>746070598>babby's first redpillthe reaction to this game's story should have taught you all you need to know about the average human's intelligence. Average, in reality, means someone who is capable of copying something complicated but not of understanding why it works. Most of humanity's knowledge was actually passed down by people like this, so don't think badly of them, but they can't innovate, they can only imitate. They can't understand that it's not really a coin flip but a copy, because they're fooled by the explanation the autistic ai construct gives to convince the retard simon to go along with it. The fact he doesn't understand it even to the very last moment tells you that simon was in fact an 80 IQ normalfag who would have died from obesity due to eating too much taco bell. So no big loss. And the end of the story of SOMA is no big deal either - just a bunch of simulations of human personalities launched into space to exist for however long the spacecraft survives. What a fucking solution. The people who committed suicide were the sane ones.
>>746079217>>746079253Finally, the thread has devolved into the tiny Hitler OneyPlays hypothetical, the logical conclusion to any and all debates.
>>746078092Yes, OG Hitler died in your scenario. He existed and then was gone. A duplicate was made which is not the original but retains memories of his experiences. It's pretty easy to explain.
>the first Neurograph was a Japanese woman
>>746077814Normally I don't associate reaction images with any particular brand of retardation, but I've seen that exact one used to confidently state brain-dead opinions and insult anyone who disagrees in a lot of threads lately. Pretty sure it's the exact same faggot. Unless his brain was uploaded to a computer that's shitposting in his place, then it's a different guy.
>>746079364>this thing that has hitler's personality and memories is not hitlerBrain. Damage.
>>746079454>this midwit is losing sleep and refreshing the thread because of meKWAB
>>746078464
>>746070598Why couldn't they cut and paste?
>>746070598>weekly LOOK AT ME BEING SMART thread where retards like OP seethe at fictional people living in their headslelpathetic
>>746079008I like it.
>"With all that being said and done, (You) is out there, living his best life. In here... I'm just Anon."
What if they made 100 hitler copies
>>746070598Deciding what ending you get based on a 50-50 coin toss that's predetermined based on the random seed generated when you start a new game is beyond retarded. Frictional deserves the hate.
>>746079315but i did eat breakfast this morning
>>746070598>idiots are so fixated on COPY & PASTE mechanic they completely ignore the personal POV of copied charactersThis is what happens when midwits try to pretend they are smart.
>>746070598>Only remembered because of a digital circus and mandalore
>>746079604It's amazing to observe you being so confident in your wrongness.
>>746072286On my 1st playthrough I got fucked over by RNG and losted the 2nd coin toss and didn't get in the specialised body that can walk the ocean floor.Wonder if you can get fucked over and not transfer into the robot body and just die in your human body.
>>746079864>but i did eat breakfast this morningThe breakfast question isn't even slightly relevant here.At this point these are just magical words you say to make an argument go away while still deluding yourself that you're intelligent.
>>746080147>and just die in your human body.You can. Half the players got the "bad end" and were just permanently switched off by deep diver Simon without any recourse in the matter.
>>746072075If you believe in sci-fi, you believe in aliens.If you believe in aliens, you believe there could be a planet somewhere in the universe with humans on it.And if you believe there are infinitely many planets, then you have to believe there could be another version of you somewhere.And if you don’t suddenly teleport to that planet, then you should believe in the no coin toss theory.
>>746079474I hate that the WAU is relegated to a scary asshole you can choose to fist. It's literally the only interesting idea the game explores, which is that in the event of total collapse a bugged out simplified intelligence could actually be the savior of mankind as it attempts and fails to preserve the last few humans around.The true ending of the game would've been Simon realising that Catherine was a delusional fucking retard chasing something utterly worthless, and the only actual path forward was merging with WAU and hoping your brain doesn't give out before you can explain humanity to it and begin construction of new hybrid types so you can reclaim the surface.
>>746082018Yeah I wonder if you could have had a sit down with the WAU if you wanted.It didn't really make the maniac killers on purpose, they were just failed experiments.
>>746072075The coin toss is based on a false premise that the continuity of consciousness will be experienced by the original at all. There is no coin toss, the original will never win.
>>>/vg/
>>746082315In my mind, that's what the WAU was attempting to do with the return to Simon's apartment dream, but then he sperged out and escaped. Honestly, the story is a tragedy/comedy. WAU succeeds in making a human analogue, but accidentally picks a historical flat scan that's far too stupid to understand his own situation, and instead just latches onto the first pretty face that tells him what to do. The arc is a completely worthless project. Wow, you can live in a box for a few hundred years until it deteriorates and crashes. What if people want to leave? What if people regret their new pointless existence in a server, with no hope of ever being recovered? It's literally just giving up on the idea of humanity so you can feel "good" about a few brain scans "escaping".
>>746070598>>746070993The game itself contradicts the "there's no coin toss" (and yes, the writing pretty much screams that there isn't one) by making your PoV go from body to body as if you indeed transferred. They really fucked up in their writing phase since the way their game plays directly contradicts the subject that their writing tries to bring on the table.
>>746082654You're just too stupid to realise that the player is experiencing past lives through memory, and falsely assuming that it was one continuous experience. That said, there is an actual perspective switch at the end of the game.
>>746071087Said by people who desperately hoped the coin toss was real.SPOILERTHEY WERE WRONG
>>746082779>You're just too stupid to realise that the player is experiencing past lives through memoryYou're literally bringing up the coin toss as a rebuttal to "there's no coin toss", you're more filtered than anyone in this thread. The coin toss is precisely representing the fact that you're either living the current acts through memories (implying that you're the one who "transferred") or not. Why the fuck would you bring it as an attempt at a counter-argument?.
>>746081728>he's not jumping time lines on the regular Imagine losing every single coin toss lmao what a phreak
>>746070598no gameplay
>>746070598Whether or not you could be friends with your copy is the ultimate test of humanity/whiteness.
>>746079232I'm 99% sure that Frictional hired some concept artists from Arkane to work on this, the art direction gave very strong Dishonored vibes to me. Hope it's out soon
>>746082576The black woman being kept alive was fertile and there was a lot of viable human genetic material all over the place. I am sure the WAU together with the Simon-body and various brain scans of top scientists could bring back the human race from that.
>>746077736>If it was an apple or a PNG we were talking about and not a consciousness, we wouldn't be having this conversationThis reminds me of David Thorne trying to pay his rent by emailing his landlord a picture of a spider he drew. When his landlord says no, he politely asks if she could email him back the picture of the spider.As though digital stuff had some unique physical identity distinct from its contents. If it was a PNG we were talking about we’e all agree you’re retarded. If you copy a PNG and delete the original, what’s left is the same fucking PNG. Not some new thing, not some imperfect facsimile or distinct iteration. Same exact data that you already had. It’s so seamless that we copy files and delete their original instances and refer to it as “moving them” because that’s what the process is. Moving data from one location to another. If the conscious mind can be recreated using digital data, it becomes indistinct from all other forms of digital data. The copy is the same as the original, “copy” and “original” are nothing but handy labels for the user of the file system. Because that consciousness, like all digital data, is not a THING. It is not a material object. It’s a sequence of 1s and 0s, pure information, and as long as that precise sequence of 1s and 0s can be produced, that thing can be made to exist. There is no meaningful notion of “original” when dealing with digital files. Hell most files on a computer aren’t even stored continuously, they’re jumbled up snippets of partial data with pointers. If you’re not too young to remember defragging, that process was where your computer moved (read: copied and deleted) file snippets to be next to each other on a hard drive to reduce loading times. A file doesn’t even proverbially exist in a “location” in digital space, much less a database as complex as an entire human brain. A brain probably consists of tens of thousands of files.
>see Soma thread>ctrl+f coin>74 resultsEvery single fucking time
Anyone watch the Joseph Anderson video on SOMA? That's the video that really got me into this game back in the day. Never even played it my self, but the video was so good I loved the game.
So /v/.. Did he win the coin toss? Stray is very soma-pilled.
>>746086865This but Prey
>>746087972>>ctrl+f coin>>74 results>Every single fucking timeIt's the topic of discussion and directly mentioned by OP, what the fuck did you expect?
While it's true that there never was a "coin toss", it is still a helpful attitude when it comes to mind-copies. You'll never get anything done without that attitude.Also, "continuity of consciousness" is a myth, anyway.
Bros, every time you go to sleep, do you win the coin toss of consciousness when you wake up or is it some other guy?
>>746074341No, we are simply looking at the game from the perspective of Simon 3. He 'won' the cointoss on Omicron, so from his perspective, he has no reason to doubt that he won't win when he gets transferred to the Ark.
>>746093138>thisSimon 3 is who we play. He collectively has all of the memories leading up to the the split in Omicron, but since he isn't Simon 4, he just keeps existing after the upload.
>>746071779>>746071932>>746072250>>746072263>>746077413the issue is that SImon and Cate almost NEVER talk about the monsters, the WAU or Dr. Ross. They constantly chat about everything else, though. It's like whenever those elements of the plot are involved, you're playing a different game altogether... I guess this weird inconsistency is why so many players dislike the body horro/scifi horror component of SOMA
>>746073678 retard
>>746071779That’s something that annoys me about Soma threads. Everyone’s hung up on whether it’s a “coin toss” or not when the WAU and the Mockingbirds are infinitely more interesting. They were easily the highlight of the game for me, every Mockingbird was morbidly fascinating and I thought the WAU was genuinely terrifying a concept
>>746079008Not really, >>746079062 is right. It's a fine game with an interesting enough story, but people pretty much only talk about the "plot-twist".
>>746070598Yea idk why this was so hard to understand, I got it as soon as they revealed the “old” body you’d left earlier.
>>746093638found the gachafag
Worst part of the ending isn't the coin flip part, it's Simon being alone at the bottom of the ocean because he couldn't stop arguing with his HAPA gf.
>>746071058Are his copies brain damaged too? If the copy has a working brain/cpu/whatever then doesn't that mean the brain damage is gone?
>>746071328It was just a way to trick Simon and give him false hope
>>746093790They’re kind of the same narrative element. The game is posing the question of what it means to be human. It has you, the player character, control an infinitely replicable digital avatar that simulates a human consciousness, and juxtaposes it with “humans” that are basically just organs on life support with no capability for thought. They’re two sides of the same coin. The game is challenging you with this idea that the biological construct is not what defines your humanity, and it does this by both forcing you to confront the implications of a human mind divorced from its body, and a human body divorced from its mind. By separating those two things, it asks you to answer “which of these is the actual person?”Somehow /v/ is full of people who think “the copy isn’t the real you” and those same people are also almost certainly the ones who think the WAU isn’t an utterly terrifying monstrosity. They think the “actual person” is the braindead husk with lungs full of structure gel, and the digital brain backup piloting a mech suit is just a falsehood.
Most people just pretend to be retarded I think.
>>746072075That’s not at all what’s being discussed here.
>>746093138>so from his perspective, he has no reason to doubt that he won't win when he gets transferred to the Ark.Thinking about it for two seconds would give him plenty of reason, but he's retarded, probably literally.
>>746070598I really don't know. The ending was so braindead simple and obvious I thought it was implausible that the main character would be wrong about it, but somehow legions of PLAYERS are wrong about it the exact same way the main character was. Even after having the game directly explain it to them, they don't get it.
>>746072912>>746074341>>746093138>the coin toss is whether you are the original who is about to be copied or the clone who simply remembers being the original who is about to be copiedThere is no coin toss you retard. There is no randomness involved at all. Both things happen. Both copies think they are the original. Neither of them are the original, original died forever ago.There never was any coin toss.
>>746070598I'm around 80% certain that people are just trolling about the coin toss.Question is, are people actually falling for those trolling attempts, or it doesn't matter, so long as there's a conversation to be had about the game and concept?
>>746094548> If the copy has a working brain/cpu/whatever then doesn't that mean the brain damage is gone?Well it was a brain scan of someone who was retarded. It can't get data from the parts of his brain that don't work anymore.The copies wouldn't be retarded/brain damaged anymore, but he's a scan of an incomplete person. It's also shown that brain copies are in denial about not being human and ignore information to the contrary. So his brain probably keeps being retarded as a coping mechanism.
>>746072075>>how often did you move to a new body, and how often did you stay in your old body?You don't move a single time. Copying a person doesn't move a soul anywhere, it simply creates a copy of it.I truly don't understand how this is confusing to people. Once you get copied there isn't one "You", there's two and the two are identical and the same. They are both you in every way that matters.>When a consciousness is duplicated, a self-locating uncertainty moment occurs.No it doesn't. There is no uncertainty. Both copies simply think they are the original. Original didn't "go" anywhere.
>>746095509>Once you get copied there isn't one "You", there's two and the two are identical and the same.Identical, yes. The same, no.
Wait, there are people here who think the coin toss wasn't real? You guys are retarded lmao.
>>746095279>I'm around 80% certain that people are just trolling about the coin toss.I think people are sincere, and the reason they get stuck on it because they, consciously or not, think souls are magic or something. These are the same people who think Star Trek transporters are suicide booths cause the copy it generates is a different person (despite being an exact duplicate down to subatomic particles).
>>746095574Only thing that's different is their physical location. Unless you think walking a step turns you into a different person (because your location changed), they are the same.
>>746074271no, the clone will think he won the coin toss, because he remembers being the original just a few seconds ago, and now he's the clone. he literally transferred to the new body
>>746071058Iirc it was just an experimental brain scan for medical purposes instead of a copy thing. His scan just got pulled up when WAU(? It's been years) was trying to make new "humans" to keep fulfilling its directive.
>>746070598How does quantum immortality treat mind uploading?
Eternal summer the thread of neo /v/ in essence. Why yes I do pretend to believe there is a coin flip and argue with you about it disengeniously every single time while laughing my ass off. Why yes, half of the posts are reposts. Lost and raped, lets do it again tommorow.-Eric
>>746095038Why would he? From his perspective, he sat down, then woke up in a new body. Who's to say the same won't happen again?
>>746095658They each have a different consciousness, and only one of them actually did the things that they both remember, therefore one has real memories and one has fake memories.
>>746096465>Who's to say the same won't happen again?A person who thinks about it for two seconds.
>>746097082When you go to sleep, do you ever doubt that you won't wake up again?
>>746079232I'd really like to know as well. Amnesia the Bunker showed there's at least some people in Frictional who want to make an actual game, and Ontos could be so fucking good if they stick to that.
>>746098250I assume everyone wonders that from time to time, yes
>>746095248Self-locating uncertainty. “Randomness” is entirely a function of human perception. A literal coin toss isn’t random at all; if you had precise information about the forces acting on the coin and its starting and ending position in space you could compute with 100% certainty whether it would be heads or tails. People actually build machines that can flip coins with this level of precision.We say a coin flip is “random” entirely because our perception of the event has insufficient information to draw conclusions about the outcome. It isn’t actually random at all, it’s entirely deterministic, but our PERCEPTION is that we can make no better prediction than a random guess.That’s how consciousness copying works. Either your PERCEPTION will be “I get into this machine and get back out and nothing has changed”, or your PERCEPTION will be “I get into this machine and get out of a different machine over there in the next instant”, and because both of those things are guaranteed to happen, any person who has iterated this process enough times will PERCEIVE it to be random.Of course it isn’t actually random. Neither is a coin toss.
Instead of letting you control Power Suit Simon immediately, they should've left the player stuck in the chair for a minute or two as the Diving Suit version and let the other Simon run up to him and see him on it's own, only switching POV after Catherine puts him to sleep just to truly bash it through the skulls of players that there is no actual fucking coin toss.
>>746100730No. The advantage of this being a game is that you are forced into the perspective of Simon. Switching perspectives would break the illusion and impact.
>>746070832nice bait
