In retrospect, this is a terrible boss
>>746453340can we take this to /dsg/
He was hard to fight on my first playthrough because I wasn't dodging or parrying anything, just blocking and then attacking afterwards. Fucker did a ton of damage through the shields and was programmed to punish you if you try to heal.If you know how to parry then he's a joke.
>>746453482First instance of a boss attacking too fast for you to ever heal, and it only got worse over time
>>746453340So why did he hollow anyway?
>>746453559You were supposed to parry him the entire fight
>>746453663For fun
>>746453663>So why did he hollow anyway?he used every last bit of his power to keep the bonfire going.
>>746453482He's the only DS1 boss that's actually relentless. If you don't parry this fucko will always be on your ass.
>>746453340holy shit its king laranox
>>746453340In retrospect there are only like 5 decent bosses in DS1>Sif>O&S>Queelag>Priscilla>Gwynthe rest are either garbage or gimicky
>>746454210>sifPiss easy>O&SPiss easy if you kill the right one first>queelagPiss easy>priscillaEasier than piss easy>gwynPiss easyNow that completely optional dragon from the DLC, THATS a real boss, same for artorias
>>746454359>>746454210whole game piss ez
>>746454359kalameet and artorias are piss easy too
>>746454359Artorias is piss ez, fren. Try doing him with Smough or Giant's armor sometime and you'll see
>>746453340>muh boss difficultythis was never the point and I would love to tie cinderblocks to your ankles and throw you into a shallow pool so you can see the surface just inches from your nose
>>746454508Where did I mention difficulty?
>>746454434Kalajeet is not piss easy, especially if youre going for the tail or if youre a guideslop watcher but then all parts of every game are piss easy then
>>746453340In retrospect? You couldn't tell immediately?
>>746454547Ok anon what’s your criticism then
>>746454627He's too difficult
>>746454547I directed it at you but its really for>>746453482>>746454210>>746454359>>746454415>>746454434>>746454462>>746454559see >>746454508
>>746454559I beat him first try. I don't see how use of a guide would have made the fight any more or less easy. His attacks are slow and obvious.
>>746454627He has a super longass runback for no fucking reason
>>746454698So you never fought him again?You'll have to trust me then, the shittiness of bosses mostly comes out in repeat playthroughsKalameet is great though
>>746454746runbacks are good
>>746454786They are good if the only reason you enjoy gaming is so you can circlejerk about how cool you are online with other similar people. If you enjoy games to have fun then no, they are not
>>746453340Why?
i want harder souls bosses, this shit is too ez and boring
>>746454746>20 second runback with 7 easy to run past enemies>super longassPeople like you are why there is a grace and stake of Marika in front of every Elden Ring boss.
>>746454829>AAAAAAAAAAA IS THAT 30 SECONDS OF ME NOT FIGHTING THE BOSS? THIS IS UNBEARABLE I'M GONNA WATCH SOME TIKTOKS
>>746454829what a scathing reply to a simple statement
>>746454776I beat him once on ps3 and once a few years ago when I played ds remastered on pc. Never bothered with ng+ in any souls game.
>>746454881>why there is a grace and stake of Marika in front of every Elden Ring boss.good.
>>746454359queelag has the bullshit one shot explosion which is more annoying than anything artorias has.
>>746453390Why are people obsessed with the dead tranny general
>>746454874i want you dead
>>746454936That explosion has such a lingering hitbox. Thoughever, if Artorias does the triple flip then you're just fucked even with fast roll
>>746453340He's memorable and makes sense narratively so I like him a lot. But the true GOAT is right here unironically. We will never have an anti-boss like that in a major game.
>>746453340I was in middle school and never used parries so this boss was sadistic on me I must've died like 30 times
>the main character of dark souls 1 is so weak he fights already dead and weakened Gods rather than them at full strength
>>746454987why do boomers want ezpz bosses that have 3 moves and react slowly. makes no sense.
>>746454786>runbacks are good
>>746454680Ok but nothing about gwyn is cool>shit theme>looks like the ice king from gay ass faggot adventure time but with AIDS and on fire>piss easy fight>is a gay faggot cursing humanity and the world by prolonging the age of fire, not to anyones benefit but as an extension of his own ego as he uses talmudic trickery to artificially prevent anyone from standing against him and the "gods">the singular cool thing, his sword, is negated by you getting a shit not on fire version with his soul in ng+Not to mention the travesty that is tranor londo
>>746454997>We will never have an anti-boss like that in a major game
>>746455105I don't even know what that king reference is. Maybe you should reflect on why you are thinking of gay cartoons
>>746455105weak bait, but very telling for what type of closeted homo you are
>>746455091yeah, NPCs can't handle that simple truth because they value convenience over everything due to their fried attention spans
It's mind blowing how they went from the cookie cutter bosses from ds1 to the sophisticated bloodborne boss ai in one game. The japanese sure are amazing
Still better than DeS's final bosses, but both are effectively more story bosses than ones fully designed to be a challenge.
>>746454934You realize that bosses used to be balanced as part of the entire level and runbacks were a part of that, right? A large part of why we have dogshit like Malenia and Consort Radahn is because they treat bosses and levels separately now. They don't have to account for the level up until that point or runbacks anymore, so they can go full retard and make bosses as rollsloppy as possible without any respect for the player's time.
>>746455392How is Gwyn balanced for the entire level?
>>746455306And you value your time being wasted
>>746455392>without any respect for the player's time.Elden Ring's skip button is called "use a shield"
>>746454786This.A runback makes you stop and reevaluate your build, weapon, or approach to the fight. Because you know in your head that being sloppy means another runback.Stakes of Marika and bonfires outside of boss arenas just validate you throwing yourself at the boss 20 times until you get a favorable pattern or unaggressive boss AI so your busted ass catch-all strategy eeks out a win.And because of the stakes and convenient bonfires, now From has to make bosses with 20 hit combos to balance 5 second downtime between attempts to keep you there longer.It's this perpetual arms race from hell because people got sad that New Londo didn't have a bonfire. :(
>>746455470No time is being wasted. That's the fundamental disconnect that midwits tend to have.
>>746455460He is easy af to parry and is weak to everything except miracles
>>746453340>descend down the earth to pass through a portal>exit and the location is outside >???Lol DS1 has it's own DS2 Earthen Peak elevator.
>>746455379DeS final bosses are bad on purpose narratively, DS1 final boss is just bad and the entire second half of the game was rushed(and you can tell)
>>746455612What does him being weak to parries have to do with the level?
>>746453340what do you mean in retrospect, he was always dude just parry him lol: the boss
>>746455536Very well put. The abundance of bonfires is also why nothing post-DS1 has captured the same sense of tension and stakes of Lordran. When you are having to move through a level methodically and carefully because you have no idea when the next bonfire will present itself, immersion is increased tenfold.
>>746455515>if you don't use this one piece of equipment that requires you to respec to STR/END, enjoy wasting hours of your timeWow, great solution retard, why even have any other stats?
>>746455631funny that you think they are comparable. I say that as someone that likes DS2.
From cared about the setting, themes, making it all an experience so the final boss is a husk Gwyn barely clinging on. As early as Artorias of the Abyss, From fell for the le difficult meme and made like 95% of all their bossess epic duels and spectacles that fall far short of actually good action games.
>>746455664>and you can tellThis is overly memed. The literal only bad part is the spam of the same enemy in Izalith. The level design of Izalith is peak, Duke's Archives is the best area in the game, Four Kings is the most inventive boss fight in the game, and Tomb of the Giants has a completely unique gimmick
>>746455115>>746454997>We will never have an anti-boss like that in a major game.
>>746455545lmao
>>746453663It was the style at the time
>>746455883thanks for proving my point
>>746455852>walk on a few rooftops in anor londo with bland marble everywhere>admits izalith is shit but then says "erm akshuakly the design is great tho">thinks dukes archives is more than mid because he is a bpdemon crystal energy foid>treats tomb of the giants as second half when its not lordvessel blocked>same for the flooded section of new londoFour kings is the only decent thing you listed, and its just a mashfest fight where you heem as fast as possible, the endless black void is the only cool part
>>746456002thanks for proving mine first
>>746455695lore implicationsGwyn never fought humans only dragons so he doesn't know how to deal with shields :D
>>746455306I don't think this has anything to do with convenience or attention span. It is simply dogshit design and has no value whatsoever
>>746456182>admits izalith is shit Wrong, I said the enemy placement (and only the enemy placement) is shit.Didn't read the rest of your post since you're being disingenuous
The purpose of a run back is the game is punishing you for wasting its time
O&S was the first boss where I started running past enemies during the runback
>>746456196>no uhow very midwit of you. Look another midwit! >>746456224
>>746456548You seem really mad. I'm not sure why you are this keen on defending bad game design
>>746456620>You seem really madthe irony. Is this you? >>746454829
>>746456501>O&S>try summon a phantom for jolly co-operation>half of the retards die to the giantdads outside of the fog wall.the early days of dark souls were absolutely wild
>>746454997Real Allant is just a victory lap thing. The fake one is the actual final boss.
>>746453663How do you kindle a bonfire in Dark Souls?He did that a lot, and for a considerably longer time than the chosen undead was running around doing it, and doing it more to the more powerful bonfire that requires more to kindle it
>>746456741I thought you need a lot of souls to keep the first flame going, not humanity?
You guys sound like you really suck at these games.
>>746456921No u
>>746456307>noooooo only the enemy placement is shit everything else is great!Original point discarded then as you just have shit taste, no further discussion needed
>>746456964You are free to discard my opinion, however you still lost the argument because I said that very thing in the first post and you somehow didn't notice. Learn to read, thanks for conceding.
>>746456790Through the darksign he was able to kindle with humanity, without which in place, yes it requires a TON of souls, an amount of souls that doesn't really exist except possibly by killing all the powerful beings in the area, and even then it's diminishing returns
>>746457060LMAO THIS GUY
>>746457145nah, he's right. You're just being obtuse.
>>746457202bro, regardless of whether he's right or wrong (I don't think he is obv) he's an obnoxious retard. Anyone who is so quick to tell someone else they "lost the argument" has no right engaging in any form of discussion in the first place
>beat tree sentinel >got +3 sword >met my onahole>time to storm castle guarded by giant with a bow at the south of the mapgame is fun so far, simple ass
>>746457628>Anyone who is so quick to tell someone else they "lost the argument">>746456964>Original point discarded then as you just have shit taste, no further discussion needed
>>746457754not even me genius. Also that entire reply chain doesn't even go back to the same discussion at hand. Pointless post
nito reference found in 1957 throne of blood
>>746457648>guarded by giant with a bowThat is VERY cute. You'll realize why it was cute once you get there. Have fun fren
>>746455873>anti-boss>posts literally the most bullshit infuriating boss in the whole game
>>746453340He's just a buffed Silver Knight. He's only bad if you parry him.
>>746453663Because he was burning alive in excruciating agony for thousands of years. Going insane was a mercy
>>746457881>That is VERY cute. You'll realize why it was cute once you get there.whats cute about a randomly placed enemy
>>746454786Not if they're just a corridor littered with enemies. I'd take a From game without any bosses if it was just well designed, deadly levels that are more than just ambushes and a few basic traps, along with actually decent combat and mob AI. But From is not capable of delivering any of those things. You'll get your slowdown swamp that applies status buildup and that's it.
>>746453340It’s been said to death but, this boss wouldn’t be nearly as iconic if not for the score accompanying it. https://youtu.be/Nvv9w-UPuSY?is=JNg4-R4M4Brk5Lt7this boss would t be remembered if it had a generic orchestral song behind it
>>746458289poison swamps are good
>>746453340ok but how is he related to the twinbird ARG?
>>746458397Miyazaki...
>>746453340i wish i could see my first playthrough of ds1 againi didn't play demons souls and wasn't much a gamer back thendad bought me xbox 360 with dark souls so i played itpretty sure i was fat rolling the whole way through it and was spoiled by getting a black knight halberd early oni don't think i lowered my shield to help improve stamina regen and i never parried or backstabbedit wasn't until gwyn was kicking my ass repeatedly did i learn how to backstab accidentally
>>746458381The song does a lot of lifting to be sure, but I think the build up to Lord Gwyn after hearing about him throughout the game also makes the fight memorable. He is described like a larger than life god figure, but when you face him he's basically just like you.
fym "in retrospect" everyone thought that from the start "the glorious golden god everyone keeps talking about is a hollow" was a neat subversion of expectations and the soundtrack sells it but he's straightforward and more importantly, parriable in a game before they figured out that maybe more than one parry should be required before you're allowed to do like a quarter of the boss' HP in one punish
>>746458557To be honest I was pretty intimidated when that fucker pulled out a huge flaming sword and leapt towards me. Didnt expect him to be that agressive
>>746454874Try Elden Ring without summons and magic. Hope you like watching anime.
>>746453663Everyone goes hollow eventually since the first flame and darkness got introduced, no matter how much better godhood makes you from your fellow man.
>>746458712Nito was still chilling.
>>746454508>Anon, Lord of cinderblocks
>>746458702i only saw clips and videos of the fight after i tried it myself. seeing people parry him into the ground made me feel like im the dumbest brick on earth, or at least im the fromsoft target audience. he jumped at me and i panic fatrolled and ate shit. ive always been envious of people who were able to play around frames and calmly interact with enemies in these games.
>>746458962He was hollow on the inside
I've beaten demon's souls and every spiritual succesor they've released and I have no fucking clue what any of them are about
>>746457754>you have shit taste and we need not discuss further>erm chuddie you lost the heckin argumenterinoThese are the same sentence to you
>>746458962Not for long
>>746458397Shrine of Amana mogs. Actual level that feels designed to kill you, not just the mobs. Also Sen's Fortress and even the Chalice Dungeons are better than poison swamps. They all much better reflect Miyazaki's self-proclaimed design philosophy of envisioning all these various ways for the player to die than anything they've put out since. Levels don't exist in their games anymore, now it's just damage sponge spectacles that are easily killable in practice, you just need to earn the right to do so by memorizing yet another somersault dance while you listen to an uninspired ear-grating synthetic choir. If you're not having fun, it's just a skill issue!
>>746458557exactly, you spend most the game fighting these huge monsters and other worldly figures/deities. Then you get to Gwyn who’s supposed to be literally a god and he’s nothing but rag and bones accompanied by a lone piano. It’s so cool and tragic at the same
>>746459071It's the same story every time
>>746459152chalice dungeons have poison swamps
>>746459175I agree but I do think the point is a bit overstated about how weak he is. His initial jump in and swings do FUCKING DAMAGE, he's far from a total pushover punching bag and it goes to show that even in this low power state he's still a kindergarden monster here to gobble you up. The revisionism that he's such an easy final boss pushover from people who googled his parry window is a bit much
>>746459071DeS is actually easy to follow.
>>746459040Yea I never bothered parrying in my first playthrough. Was a total shieldfag so the gwyn bossfight felt intense and final bossy enough for me. Don't know if I would have even tried parrying if I used it more, wouldnt have worked on any other boss that I knew of.
>>746459303Still better than JUST poison swamps with nothing else going on.
>>746459272and it's kino every timehe better not change it for duskbloods
>>746459272Yeah that much I can grasp. But people will write literal fucking essays about the nitty gritty and the characters and the lore and dudes will complain about Radahn and I don't even know who the fuck the final boss of each game is supposed to be or why I'm even killing them. I just play to kill cool monsters (and to be fair the games deliver)>>746459381I remember understanding it more or less when I played it (and replayed it) but the plot has such a non presence in the overall experience I forgot.
>>746459572>But people will write literal fucking essays about the nitty gritty and the characters and the lore and dudes will complain about Radahn and I don't even know who the fuck the final boss of each game is supposed to be or why I'm even killing them. I just play to kill cool monsters (and to be fair the games deliver)litarally me
>>746459572Elden ring I pretty firmly understood after a playthrough even if I didn't understand all the rules and minutiae Dark Souls required wikis and lore videos just to figure out what the fuck was actually happening and it felt like the NPCs were singing meaningless poetry at me rather than saying anything of value
>>746459572Murderhobo is the canonical first playthrough of any of those games. Just a dude trying to get through. You only learn the lore by 100% it.
>>746459673>guys were bashing women for writing fanfics in early 2000>now they do this
>>746459761I think that’s what made Dark Souls so compelling at the time. There was all of this lore hidden in the most minute places yet so little cutscenes and vague dialogue. I think it’s hack now and I was little annoyed they tried to do the same thing in Elden Ring, although the story is much clearer than any Dark Souls game
>>746459572>>746459673>Find purple piece of fabric on floor in starting area>Find spinning wheel on 3rd floor of final castle>This means the final boss was a clothier that went insane when he couldn't contain the spread of the undeadI love making shit up and then fighting people online over it
>>746459272>rekindle the cycle but actually dont. the cycle is bad.
>>746453340He's fine, especially if you don't parry him
>>746460083>I think that’s what made Dark Souls so compelling at the time.maybe for secondaries
>>746454997I think Midra is a good evolution of this concept, although it's not 1:1. Phase 1 is the pathetic anti-boss who's been built up, and phase 2 is an actual boss who still feels very different from every other boss in the game.
>>746455631The path to Kiln of the First Flame is an otherworldly portal that takes four lord's souls to open.The path to Iron Keep is an elevator.
>>746455631it's a portal retard
Funny how DaS2 also has the worst fanbase of the series
>>746461059I don't think it's funny.
>>746455536I thought Stakes of Marika are mostly found in the outer areas and only exist to encourage world PVP. Really the problem with that is the world is too fucking big, dialed down to make it more coherent, and less repeat bosses spread throughout. Erdtree Avatars, worms, Nightrider Cavalry and dragons should either have not been as common or had varying appearances like the demons and creatures they’re inspired from. I do agree that bonfires outside of boss rooms suck and they should have made more shortcut oriented level design for proper runbacks.
>>746462409>PVP only exists if you use nonNPC summons>accidentally end up playing the entire game without 1 real person invasion
>>746458557iirc he was meant to be far more challenging and a culmination of everything you should have learned about combat playing through the game. he was intended to be closer to the soul of cinder boss of dark souls 3 but from ran out of time. it was serendipitous that he turned out the way he did and thematically it fit really well. i don't think the fight would've hit anywhere near as hard if he was more challenging
>>746459272Bloodborne isn’t that story. You’re just trying to escape this horrific, nightmarish scenario after initially traveling to Yharnam to cure a sickness. If anything you being proficient is serendipity since people come to that town to heal all the time.
>>746453340Is there a good final boss in any fromshit game that isn't AC6 or Sekiro?
>>746454746It's because the fight isn't needleslsy overdesigned, it's quite simple. The pacing of the runback is what gives each attempt weightZoomers dont understand pacing
I never understood whether the Dark Souls universe has actual "Gods" or if it's just the guys like Gwyn who are just really strong and are called gods.
>>746453340In retrospect, all the RPG-slop of FromSoftware are garbage: Dark Souls 1, Dark Souls 2, Dark Souls 3 and especially Elden DOGSHIT Ring.Demon's Souls gets a pass for being the foundation of "modern" FromSoftware.The only truly good games that "modern" FromSoftware has ever made are Bloodborne, Sekiro, Armored Core VI and The Duskbloods: all games that significantly reduced the RPG-slop elements or abandoned them completely.
>>746453340>>746453821He's literally a reskinned Flamelurker.
>>746462807Thats all gods. Ultra powerful beings who are still fallible and can die. Even Zeus was afraid of dying so he ate Athenas mother and she popped out of his skull, armed with weapons and fully grown. Gwyn is the actual god of lightning and sunlight. Velka embodies sin, Flann embodies fire as do the Witches of Izalith and Nito is the God of Death.
>>746453390/dsg/ has been gone for years at this point
>>746463041low IQ post
>>746463138>Flannliterally fucking who
>>746455536I kind of agree with this. I had a bad time in Elden Ring because I never changed my build to adapt to different challenges. In fact, I'm still doing it to this day.>started a new playthrough with the new DLC classes>one starts with a light greatsword>absolutely TERRIBLE match-up against the leonine misbegotten in Castle Morne since only the charged R2 staggers him>die like 7 times>finally pull my head out of my ass and switch the skill from Sacred Blade to Impaling Thrust>first try himBut you're wrong about the second part. Stakes of Marika exist because the bosses are harder. Harder bosses don't exist because of stakes of Marika. You have it the wrong way around.
>>746462807Theyre little g gods, which are just strong dudes.
>>746453340his attacks are too fast for the game he's in
>>746463351There is no way jump R2 spam wouldn't have staggered him. Also you're retarded if you can only beat him with staggercheese
>>746463421LGS jump R2 doesn't stagger him, no
>>746463351>>started a new playthrough with the new DLC classes>>one starts with a light greatsword>>absolutely TERRIBLE match-up against the leonine misbegotten in Castle Morne since only the charged R2 staggers him>>die like 7 times>>finally pull my head out of my ass and switch the skill from Sacred Blade to Impaling Thrust>>first try himso your ideal solution to this is the developers forcing you to use your brain through long boring runbacks? You really think that is the best way to achieve that outcome???
>>746463535No, and nothing I wrote suggests that.
>>746463535Yes.
>>746463469>LGSTarnished edition was such a mistake bro, we have tards running around with LGS getting pooped on by regular enemies with boss health
>>746453663He did not go hollow, he went insane only the descendants of the furtive pygmy, the bearers of the dark soul, can go hollow as his curse weakens
>>746463592>>746463601who do i believe
>>746463612But aren't LGS in the DLC? I thought M'lady *tips fedora* was one
>>746463242We don't declare the contents of our posts here, anon.
>>746463771It is, the DLC requires you beat Mohg thougheverbeitfully, so you aren't exactly getting mollywhopped by this piece of piss
>>746463861Fair point
>>746463256This dude, Gwynevere's promised consort. He's in the Sun Princess Ring's description. Flann is Gaellic for red-haired.
>>746463612>>746463771Is LGS lordran greatsword? Isn't that in the carriage near where you get the mount?
>>746464054Light Greatsword, a weapon class added in the Shadow of the Erdtree DLC. With this new editionslop, one of the starting weapons is of that class
>>746464101Ah alright, thanks for the info
>>746463612I refuse to believe anyone bought a switch to play a four year old game. Most people have gotten everything they can out of ER. Hell the DLC gave me Fromsoftware fatigue.
>>746464202I refuse to believe anyone who played Elden ring prior to the switch 2s release is getting bodied by fucking Leonine, so I can only assume it's a switchlet struggling
>>746463138You forgot the furtive pygmy
>>746454210In my humble desu, I think OnS aren't a particularly good boss. The majority of the fight is you backpedaling. If you get in close, you can maybe avoid thei equally fast attacks, but the problem becomes your screen is covered with effects and usually Smoughs enormous hammer and their bodies grinding and clipping on each other. It becomes a mess, both visually and gameplay wise. You can argue you can face-tank it, but that isn't a positive at all. So you walk backwards pretty much all the time. Ornstein will dash toward you, but more times than not, he'll stop, turn, and then immediately dash again. If he had the appropriate animation, it might be fine, but as it is, we're left with this janky at best attack. Smough just fucks with your camera, he has that hammer-forward rushing attack and if you're lock-ed, it causes it to freak out. Which is mechanically sound because of invincibility frames, but visually it can feel completely backwards. You're looking at a gigantic hammer coming directly toward your face and the games answer is, “No, trust me. Go inside the hammer.” Ignoring that, it can be a bit janky to actually avoid that attack and leads to one of the problems of rolling, which means to roll IN the attack. My biggest gripe with Smough is the way to separate the two, which is the go-to method for defeating them, is to get the AI stuck on the terrain. It's not like there's a mechanic, the AI literally just walks into the column and it shows how janky the game can be. Without the columns, the two are roughly the same speed, which again, results in your backpedaling throughout. Remove the pillars and see what happens. The fight is supposed to be to focus on their weaknesses to bring them down, but what weakness do they have? I'm not talking like being weak to magic or whatever. I mean the actual mechanics. 2nd phase, It's kinda lame they just become each other which doesn't really change the fight as a wholechar limit reached. OnS is a 4/10
>>746453340I didn't get how to parry so I just used pre-nerf Iron Skin to facetank everything
>>746458710>guard counters in ur directionI like that ER gives you a ton of ways to get busted besides what you mentioned
>>746464493>only boss in the game that requires you to actually keep a reasonable distance and exploit openings, instead of just hugging and circlestrafing10/10 design
>>746464719thats just playing a mage, also you need to keep your distance against Ceaseless, Demon Firesage, Nito, and Kalamet to name a few. >everything sucks, but it has one positive, therefore its perfect
>>746464945>CeaselessTechnically true since you can't reach him but you're still a double-talking nigger>Demon Firesage??? just hug him>Nito??? just hug him>Kalameet??? just hug himYou better not be talking about giant AOE explosion attacks you have to run away from because a) that's not the same thing b) you forgot to mention like 6 bosses in that case
>>746453390can you fuck off and stop trying to push video games off of /v/
>>746464290He wasnt a god of anything. I also forgot the blacksmith deity on the titanite slab descriptions and Gwyndolin/Gwynevere and Mcloyf. And Im sure normal citizens of Anor Londo were of the same biology as Gwyn and his men like the Silver Knights, Ciaran, Artorias and Ornstein. Really its easier to just think of them as a combination of Olympians and Asgardians.
>>746465046bro you can just hug O&Sdont be reductive, you know those fights force you to step back. if were gonna stretch O&S about keeping a distance and exploit openings, then the ones I mentioned absolutely fit. shit, why wouldnt moonlight butterfly fit too?
>>746454969Why are you so obsessed with this dead tranny game?
>>746465353>bro you can just hug O&SWrong, you're lying
>>746465434nope, you can stack poise and facetank. or facetank with high defenseyou can also slap on the DWGR to flip through all that. you can also use pyro to burst damage them down. and again, just because they have one """positive"""" doesnt mean its a 10/10we are agreeing that getting up close to them makes the fight unbearable, right?
Was the entire primordial world before Gwyn fucked things up really just trees, rocks and dragons? How can that be 99% of everything. Dragons didnt try to build civilization?
>>746455785>that requires you to respec
>>746467148Time and Space is convoluted.
>>746453663you wouldnt be bored out of your mind from standing in a big ashy room for all eternity?
>>746467574These webms are always so disingenuous. It's like that screenshot of people purposely being obtuse to win an argument.
>>746453340He was annoying but easy to learn. The boss I hated with a passion was Kalameet. I spent days trying to beat that overtuned lizard. FUCK KALAMEET!Meanwhile I still don't even know what the fuck Manus does since I just walked up to and killed him instantly somehow.
>>746467791What's disingenuous about a naked level 1 character with no talismans or any buffs blocking Waterfowl Dance with a medium shield you get in Limgrave?
>>746467791Its intentional. A shitton of them are also from reddit or twitter. They never show anything interesting either, its the equivalent of giving a dolphin a paintbrush and it somehow sticks it up its own ass.
>>746467574Why don't you lose HP on block? Was that changed?
Last boss of DS3 should have been Pontiff Sulyvahn. Everything, every single thing, set him up to be the ultimate peak of everything happening.
>>746469276Sulyvahn being the intended villain of Das3 only to be an intermediate boss is funny to me. People say Das2’s development was a clusterfuck but taking into account how Das3 looked in promos or its scrapped, plot that game rivals it as well.
>>746467791>so disingenuousIt's really notI think I remember the thread where OP made that WebM. People kept moving the goalposts regarding being able to block waterfowl dance, and the logical conclusion was fully blocking it with a basic bitch medium shield, at level 1, with no talismans. Which proves the point that it can be easily blocked without having to respec your character.I did the same thing (switching to a shield) on my first playthrough. The only reason I stopped was because I felt like it was worse to let Malenia recover off of blocking waterfowl dance. I could block it effortlessly, though.
>>746467574>damage negation>physical: 100.0Why would he lose HP?
>>746469823>basic bitch medium shieldi dont care about the webm or the argument here, but the shield is +25, thats pretty far from a basic bitch shieldI wonder what the shittest shield you could use actually
>>746469910Probably the rickety shield from the demi-humans. Also, a +25 heater shield has 64 guard boost to the brass shield's 61 at +0, and the latter is a random drop from Limgrave that you're more or less guaranteed to get.Shields are pretty OP in Elden Ring in general, though. I don't know why the recent patch buffed them even more, but I'm not complaining.
>>746454359subhuman souls tourists unironically equate difficulty to quality, you guys should just kill yourself because you have no humanity or grasp on reality
Threadly reminder that The Firelink Conspiracy is right about everything
>>746455962I decided to go to anor londo which is what they called Irithyll in those days
>>746470165>subhuman souls tourists unironically equate difficulty to qualityThe only reason that series ever took off was precisely because you tards hyped it as NINTENDO HARD ever since DeS came out, but ok, as usual you faggots have to do a 180° whenever an IP gets into the mainstream
>>746467791>Hahahahahahahaha How The Fuck Is Waterfowl Dance Real Hahahaha Nigga Just Walk Away From Her Like Nigga Dodge In The Opposite Direction Haha
>>746470431kindly kill yourself
>>746469823What is disingenuous is that he is 2 handing the shield which is an almost 50% boost to guard power, which almost no one does because switching from 2 hand to 1 hand wastes time and shortens the time you have to react to attacks and your punish window. On top of that, he is fighting one of the very few bosses in the game that only does pure physical damage. There's a reason every single webm like this is of phase 1 Malenia specifically and not a boss like Maliketh, Placidusax, Mohg, Morgott, Radahn, or any major boss that spams affinity attacks and would rape anything below a greatshield with chip damage. Weight and damage reduction from armor also matters, so your equipment weight is going to be a hell of a lot more limiting than if you were doing a naked challenge run with nothing but a medium shield equipped.
>>746454969the ERP of course
>>746471503Again, I'm pretty sure that the WebM was a result of an argument specifically about Malenia / WFD, so dealing pure physical damage is irrelevant.
>>746470165Artorias isnt difficult, but a specifically piss easy boss that isnt that way on purpose(like true allant or first few bosses) is gay
>>746455631How are DS2 troons so consistently retarded?
>>746453340In retrospect, this is a terrible game
>>746472504the fuck does this graph mean?>when i was playing it, it was fun. but i thought about it and I wasnt having funthen if you ever play it, does it go back to being good? its only when you arent playing it that its bad? what??
Why are you replying to the world's worst bait?
>>746453340They're both basic as fuck but Fake Allant gigamogs him.SOUL LEVEL DRAINED is still the coolest enemy grab in soulsbornes.
>>746472718because sometimes its so stupid, I want to have answers. i am not immune to bait
>>746472504>lies of P>peaklol. no.
>>746453663>So why did he hollow anyway?Gwyn isn't hollow, that's just his husk body being automated by the First Flame which his soul is now part of. What you fight isn't really him anymore, just something born from the rebirth of the First Flame when Gwyn linked his soul. Hollowing is something completely different that only affects humans because of the Dark Soul within them.As for why Gwyn is the way he is. All flames (apart from the Dark Soul) are fated to fade because fire is transitory.
>Put boulders in his arena that break his pathing>Meaning any Sorcery build can cheese him stupid easyWhat did they mean by this?
>>746471774Okay, that's not what the initial discussion in this thread was about. It was about shields being a stupid bandaid fix that generally require you to build around them (with END and STR) to deal with the power creep in boss movesets as a result of the recent separation between levels and bosses. I don't know why you're bringing up why the webm was created when it was used in this thread under a completely different context for a completely different discussion.
>>746470479You were already running away like a pussy before you even considered that she was going to do this attack
>>746462945https://arch.b4k.dev/v/search/text/Elden%20DOGSHIT%20Ring/filter/text/Please seek Christ and correct your schizo lolcow ways.
>>746465203>He wasnt a god of anythingHaving a lord soul puts you in the god category, but the other lords wouldn't have it so subjugated the pygmy's descendants for power. Everyone seems to forget that all the lords are fighting for supremacy. Even fucking Nito has power over the gods as death in Dark Souls is the next state of being that comes after life. In a way, Nito's supremacy is being the lord of sleep as death is about rest. The more bodies with aged souls in them, the more Nito's supremacy grows, and he doesn't give a fuck who or what it is. To bad his rule is transitory like the Gods and Witches. Eventually, all souls will fade and the bodies will turn to dust.
>>746455536runbacks only exist because of bad boss design. if your boss is so shallow that it can be figured out by just a few back-to-back fights or getting lucky then it's not a good boss. most of ds1 bosses rely on a single gimmick and can be dismantled with your eyes closed once you figure it out, which is why they have you run to them each timerunbacks also encourage cheesing instead of approaching the boss honestly, because who the fuck wants to spend more time running than actually playing the game? how can you with good conscience ever say that the fucking minutes long runback to old king allant or guaranteed aids-on-the-way runback to queelag is something good?
>>746454210shouldn't be surprising at all. In the older souls games, the focus was never on the bosses. They served as checks to cap off the levels, rather than the levels just being windowdressing on the way to the big spectacle boss fights. You can make a similar point about demons souls and dark souls 2.I think newfags who started with Dark Souls 3 or Elden Ring get thrown off by this. These are the games where Fromsoft started morphing the souls genre into boss rushes with the levels mostly as an afterthought. The natural end-state of this is of course nightreign and duskbloods
Nashandra was always a joke of a final boss but burnt ivory king will always be absolute cinema
>>746455767Dark Souls 2 got this right too. But souls """veterans""" complained that that they couldn't mindlessly just run past everything. Which is crazy to think about because it's people literally complaining about actually being told they're supposed to play the game.
>>746455536It's getting to the point now where checkpoints are just one game away from being removed. Fuck level design, amrite.
>>746474404I think you have the completely wrong mindset. You're thinking of levels and bosses as separate things. The challenge of a souls game is supposed to getting through each gauntlet holistically, meaning enduring both the level and the level's boss, together. The mindset of thinking of them as separate things, that you "complete a level" without the boss, and then "complete the boss fight", has led to modern design we see now. Jog through a filler level and make sure to grab items, enjoy the view and take a breather, get a bonfire or stake of marika 2 inches from the boss fog and slam your head against an over the top boss until you learn its exact pattern. That's not what souls games used to be about. The reason modern souls bosses are the way they are is because they have to compensate for the fact that these bosses are now supposed to stand on their own, rather than being the climax of a level. And with the focus on these twitch action over the top spectacle bosses, the level designs have become deemphasized. Sure, legacy dungeons in ER can be large and impressive in their scope, but are typically absolute jokes in terms of actually traversing through them to get to the end. Everyone jerks off stormveil castle, but it's only impressive in terms of how much there is to explore. But that exploration is like searching every nook and cranny at the supermarket to check off your grocery list. There is rarely any challenge. The only somewhat challenge in stormveil is when you first play it and get caught offguard by the allahu akbar exploding birds. Which happens 10 feet away from a bonfire, mind you. There's never any of that tension or fear of dying and needing to redo your progress, something that was a hallmark of the classic souls games. That's not to say there weren't ever boss runbacks that were tedious. Allant's slow ass elevator or the sheer amount of mindless walking you needed to do to get back to seethe the scaleless were indeed not good.
>>746474404>most of ds1 bosses rely on a single gimmick and can be dismantled with your eyes closed once you figure it outThis, right here, is the fundamental misunderstanding rollslop enjoyers have about Dark Souls. The game was designed that way on purpose, with slow bosses and little mechanical skill requirements, so that even your grandmother could beat it if she was paying attention and thinking. I unfortunately don't have it to hand, but think of that "a tale of two adventurers" comic that we've all seen. You were MEANT to figure out that Taurus Demon has a big ledge in his arena that can work to your advantage for a plunge attack, and you were MEANT to realise that he'll punish you for being too predictable with it. That wizard mob that snipes at you in the Gaping Dragon fight? That's not just an annoying add like an Elden Ring multi boss fight, that's the game telling you "you should have explored more and then you would've killed this guy already, dipshit". You're not meant to ignore him and DPS down Gaping Dragon anyway, you're meant to either kill him before fighting the dragon or think "fuck, this is annoying, is there a way to get up there and kill him so I can fight the dragon in peace?". That's why Gaping Dragon is trivially easy once you've dealt with the caster, because you've figured out the trick the DM came up with and essentially defeated him before you even entered the arena. The gimmicks ARE the boss fight. Your grandma who's never played a videogame in her life can still slowly feel out the area, look ahead, and think "hmm, this staircase has a big barrel on its side at the top, is there a possibility an enemy could kick it down so it falls on top of me? I better be ready in case that happens". Your grandma who's never played a videogame in her life is not going to beat fucking Promised Consort Radahn no matter how much she thinks about it. That's the difference.
>>746474404This is easily in the top 10 most retarded posts I’ve read all year and thats saying something when this site gets progressively worse by the day.
>>746476124>I think you have the completely wrong mindset. You're thinking of levels and bosses as separate things. The challenge of a souls game is supposed to getting through each gauntlet holistically, meaning enduring both the level and the level's boss, together. The mindset of thinking of them as separate things, that you "complete a level" without the boss, and then "complete the boss fight", has led to modern design we see now. Jog through a filler level and make sure to grab items, enjoy the view and take a breather, get a bonfire or stake of marika 2 inches from the boss fog and slam your head against an over the top boss until you learn its exact pattern. That's not what souls games used to be about.this would be true if souls enemies werent passive as fuck. I understand the sentiment of having to beat the level again as a punishment for dying to a boss but this doesnt happen in fromsoft games. People just sprint past enemies to a fog gate. Its not engaging, nor does it make you feel relieve not having to do any more boss runs. Its just annoying. The other anon is correct. Boss runs only exist because bosses themselves are easy as fuck and only take couple tries to figure out their moveset. I imagine if Malenia had that rot swamp runback before her people wouldve ragequit the game
>>746476430maybe your enlightened ass should go run few laps around the block since you like it so much, instead of lurking in a place that's supposedly oh so below your level of intelligenceobnoxious faggot
>>746476682>The other anon is correct. Boss runs only exist because bosses themselves are easy as fuck and only take couple tries to figure out their moveset. I imagine if Malenia had that rot swamp runback before her people wouldve ragequit the gameYou're putting the cart before the horse. Malenia is only allowed to be as tedious and over the top as it is because Fromsoft made the implicit decision over the years to make boss fights and level clears two separate things rather than a unified whole. This decision to split them resulted in levels becoming jokes and bosses needing to become more and more over the top because they needed to stand on their own, when previously souls games were never actually "about" the combat in and of itself. This has resulted in these games becoming more and more like glorified boss rush games rather than ARPGs.>I understand the sentiment of having to beat the level again as a punishment for dying to a boss but this doesnt happen in fromsoft games. People just sprint past enemies to a fog gate. Its not engaging, nor does it make you feel relieve not having to do any more boss runsDark Souls 2 handled this properly and all the alleged souls fans cried about it. Because they rejected DS2 we have been subjugated with rollslop ever since
>>746453340If you didn't know he's one of the only bosses in the game that can be parried, then he's definitely pretty tough. O&S or Manus are still the peak, obviously, but Gwyn is not weak. I love his armor set. He and the Nameless King have such a cool aesthetic.
>>746454508Souls bosses were meant to be hard. Demon's Souls was sold on the game having very tough bosses from the start.
>>746476760And this is a top 100 for the ESL sentence structure and diction alone.
>>746474404>>746476124>>746476281>>746476682>>746476760>>746477039I used to have an image showing the shape of boss areas through Fromsoft games as they evolved from Dark Souls. Basically, by the time you get to Elden Ring, all the boss rooms are ovoid in shape, which highlight they have all become meat grinders.
>>746463612Light Greatswords have a really fun moveset, but they also have one of the highest skill floors in the game. Everyone tries the Milady for an hour and then gets their shit pushed in because it doesn't have hitstun like a Greatsword and can't be R1 mashed like a Curved Sword.I can absolutely see someone just trying to get used to an LGS get their ass kicked by the Leonine if they're more used to using heavier weapons or faster ones.
>>746477307here is something more eloquent just for you
>>746477345They become big ovals in shape because Fromsoft has worked on adapting to their engine and its strengths and limitations more and more over the years. Boss arenas are bigger and have less shit in them because they know the camera sucks and that player mobility is really important to facilitate. You could play a game of American Football inside the Mohg Pantheon Arena, and people still say that it is a bit too small.
>>746476281Execution challenges are far more interesting than gimmick fights. Gimmicks only work once. Execution fights are fun again and again.
>>746477039>Fromsoft made the implicit decision over the years to make boss fights and level clears two separate things rather than a unified wholeyou can thank the "git gud" faggots for that one. They kept demanding more and more boss spectacle. While I do prefer the simplicity of DS1 fights I still dont consider boss runbacks any meaningful part of the game. I like how bloodborne did it with you unlocking boss shortcuts after beating the level. It feels like a fair compromise. How the fuck did the series devolve in so many way after it I will never understand. Maybe Miyazaki requires a tard handler>Dark Souls 2 handled this properlyit absolutely didnt. I sprinted to fog gates just as I did in any other souls. Its was just extra annoying because slop souls 2 spams gorillion trash enemies at you
>>746477626Anon, the boss arenas have become ovoid because they're designed to be a schizoid while fighting. Its what you want from beginning to end for epeen cred.
>>746477296>Demon's Souls was sold on the game having very tough bosses from the start.LEVELSit was sold on tough levels. That includes both the areas and the boss fights that cap off the levels. Sure, there were a handful of difficulty spike bosses like maneaters and flamefucker, but in general way more emphasis was put on the challenge of the areas before the bosses, being long stretches and tough gauntlets full of enemies and traps that required the player to take his time, not lose his nerve, play methodically, watch out for traps, not rush into situations and get ambushed, and so on. Nobody was talking about adjudicator or old hero or fool's idol or leech monger being difficult. They were talking about tower of latria, shrine of storms, valley of defilement. The actual areas. The bosses were just a final test to round off the levels.
>>746458289There isn't a single melee based game with good mob AI. It is basically impossible to create. The Witcher 3 has shitty AI. Skyrim has shitty AI. Nioh 2 has shitty AI. DMC5 has shitty AI.
>>746455392If they're balanced for the entire level then they should gate them behind killing the enemies, not sprinting past them.
>>746454559Kalameet is piss easy, but I agree going for the tail cut is probably the single hardest thing in Dark Souls 1.
>>746454997>We will never have an anti-boss like that in a major game.
>>746459071The stories are all madlibs bullshit rewritten a dozen times over the development cycle. Lorefagging is never worth it. Just take in the vibes.
>>746477685Miyazaki hasnt given much of a shit since Bloodborne. Even Elden Ring is just all the ideas and reused assets of previous games with the Das2 director at the helm to drive the point across. I absolutely hope the next real game either rectifies all of the bad choices or gives people Fromsoftware fatigue so we can add them to a list of other devs who have had their time in the sun e.g. Bioware, Bethesda and so on.
>>746469276Yeah, I have no idea what happened there. Especially when people often fight the Dancer (a bitch that the Pontiff mindbroke into a mutant slave whore) after killing the Pontiff. Which is really a unique type of ass-backwards in a very linear game.
>>746478036>I absolutely hope the next real game either rectifies all of the bad choices or gives people Fromsoftware fatigueafter how massively successful Elden ring was? I really dont think so. They will just double down on everything and elden ring 2 will be made almost entirely by indians
>>746477345Here, a better version for your collection. I dunno why so many clipped versions of that webm are floating around.
>>746477742Communicating challenge with tough areas made so much more sense for souls. It was never meant to be a straight action game. They could have doubled down on that instead of the boss difficulty. Though to be honest my problem was more that the bosses just stopped being memorable. I probably wouldn't be able to recall 90% of them from das2
>>746477345>>746474404>>746476124>>746476281>>746476682>>746476760>>746477039Found it. Elden Ring is riddled with ovoid boss arenas.
>>746455852>The literal only bad part is the spam of the same enemy in Izalith. The level design of Izalith is peak,The enemy placements are a core part of the level design. And they fucking suck. Everything else you said is true though.
>>746478312I assume because the spinning off into the distance is just a joke which has no relevance to the subject.
>>746477742There are entire levels in Demon's Souls that are just bossfights. The bosses were always the focus.
>>746453559Don't heal then. It's the final boss, dummy. Kill the boss.
>>746478950>There are entire levels in Demon's Souls that are just bossfights. Those levels being the last archstones in each world. They barely count.>The bosses were always the focus.They're a large part of the games undeniably, but they are absolutely not the focus.
>>746473025He's literally a reskinned Flamelurker in every way.
>>746467791>disingenuousthis has become the new word for people without an argument who can't respond without sounding retarded>>746467914no response to this one, curious!
>>746469369>how Das3 looked in promos or its scrapped, plotThat's literally every FROM game though. DaS, DS2, BB, 3, ER. FROM shuffles bosses and levels around pretty much right up until the game goes gold. Honestly it's a wonder that they're even slightly coherent by the end of things.
>>746478036Fromsoft has always been super economical with ideas and assets. The Vanguard from Demon's Souls is a slightly retextured summon ally from Enchanted Arms, a prior Fromsoft game. The Armored Spider is a modified Ninja Blade, another earlier Fromsoft game, boss. Anor Londo is heavily based on the London map from Enchanted Arms. I'm sure you could get even more if you kept looking. If Elden Ring reuses a lot of ideas, that is because every game in the series reuses ideas, assets, and mechanics because if you compare their development cycles they're way faster than anything comparable at other companies. Fromsoft was releasing 60hr+ Action RPGs every 2-3 years since the early 2000s. You don't keep that pace up without being very economical.
>>746473073>It was about shields being a stupid bandaid fix that generally require you to build around them (with END and STR)which is refuted by the webm showing someone block waterfowl with a shield that doesn't require stat investment
>>746479236Its actually funny for the Armored Spider because Ninja Blade literally came out a month before Demon's Souls. The game was just such pure garbage that almost no one at the time noticed that Demon's Souls removed some spikes from one of its bosses for the Armored Spider fight. I guess the big thing was that was still the height of the Console Wars, and Ninja Blade was XBOX and Demon's Souls was PS3. So the actual player cross-over wasn't as big as it could have been.
>>746464493I like to kill oreo first in order to get s'more armor set. Too bad the stats for armor don't really matter
>>746454508look another parroting of a lie from that irish faggot. difficulty has always been the point.
>>746453340Yeah it blows chunks. It's just a sad old man and he can't do ONE backflip nevertheless seven. I'm glad this series has evolved, with most bosses in Elden Ring I literally cannot believe what I'm seeing.
>>746479724don't know who you're referring to and I don't care. Difficulty was never the main point of dark souls 1
>>746481170>main point of dark souls 1but it was a point
>>746473420What do you have against me sharing my experience and perspective?
>>746453340I parried with a bare left hand and black knight ultra
>>746454881>20 secondare you retarded?its 1 minute minimum
>>746458397Only if the enemies have a chance to drop poison curables and it doesn't instantly max stack.Turns into a game of 'the floor is lava' where you have to beat things to death between jumping from island to island.
>>746462709>after initially traveling to Yharnam to cure a sickness"seek Paleblood" is about Moon Presence, not a general sicknesswe literally don't know if the Yharnam horrors are confined only to the limits of the city. What if there is no containment and the world in general is fucked by the Great Ones breading sessions?
>>746483503I feel like any good poison area should have some kind of indication its nestled inbetween an area of civilization. Like VOD and Blighttown have people or creatures living there. Meanwhile every swamp in ER is just an endless mess of nothing. Same with Bloodbornes swamps in the various nightmare areas.
>>746462784Zoomers don’t understand anything really. The understand instant gratification and they understand how to use a touch screen and they understand what it is like to live under the burden of illiteracy.
>>746462784>it's supposed to suck
>>746455536How is wasting your time running through an area past enemies you've already beaten dozen of times considered better than respawning outside the fog gate?
>>746453340Flamelurker is worse
>>746454210>>746454359Every boss in DaS1 besides Bed of Shit and Centipede Demon is good>noooo if the boss isn't doing 10 hit zanzibart combos then it's le badFuck off>>746470165This
>>746469860Meant for >>746468659
>>746478156>>746469369
>>746479236>Fromsoft has always been super economical with ideas and assets.>a single enemy in Demon's Souls is reused from a previous gameok>>746479482Considering they both came out at the same time, there's no evidence that it wasn't created for DeS first and then used in Ninja Blade. I'd say it fits far more in the former
>>746455631Never realised the Kiln of the First Flame has a spiral climb structure. Interesting.
>>746453340judging games in retrospect is meaningless, you should judge them based on the other games that were out at the time
>>746453340He's a great boss though
>>746454210>gimmicks are... LE BADThis mentality is why 98% of nuSouls and the boss fights are so bad and all blend together and all play the same.
>>746479236People really exaggerate about the asset reuse in the early Souls games, where even though they had far less resources and shorter development times, Fromsoft wouldn't actually copypaste much between each game. Even when you have very similar weapons or magic spells, they would make all new animations, models and effects for themhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItDC-ZSNbgkhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-k2Rtb1aY8If anything the asset reuse started to get more blatant in the newer From games, with Elden Ring still reusing decade old weapon movesets from Dark Souls 1, enemies from Dark Souls 3 with the exact same copypasted moveset (thralls), Nightrein digging up bosses from previous games to reuse (bleh...)
the furtive pigmy, so easily forgotten
>>746454786No, they're not, and anybody's bullshit reasoning is retarded nonsense. >they make you thinkThey make me waste my time. My build is not going to change no matter what. >they make it more challengingThey make it take longer. Fighting trash mobs and holding the forward button is not challenging, it is annoying.>they give the fight more stakesThere are never stakes in souls games because there are no tangible in-game consequences for dying unless you're holding 10+ levels of souls. If the goal is simply to waste the player's time in order to make him fight harder then you could replace the runback with a black screen that just says 'YOU SUCK' and plays merzbow for 10 minutes before returning you to the fog wall.>it makes you think about the fight moreYou know when I'm studying the boss and learning the fight? When I'm fighting it. You know when I'm not doing that? When I'm running through a dirty hallway killing enemies who pose no threat to me. Souls bosses are exclusively a learn-on-the-job experience.'runback good, actually' is purely a 'new bad old good' mentality, absolutely nobody praised this stupid shit at the time. People just dislike the newer games and want to hate every single change while all the dumb shit still in them is handwaved.
>>746476124>>746476281>>746478638Excellent posts anons, I agree with what you've said even though I really love Elden Ring as well. Each area consistently being thorough and nuanced on its guaranteed paths is something I adore about Demon's Souls and Dark Souls 1 in particular, and gimmick bosses are really memorable and refreshing so long as they're not entirely just the gimmick. They also teach you the various strategies and fighting styles you can achieve with your move set and equipment, which encourages things like players figuring out methods to avoid and counter Waterfowl Dance.
>>746486721Ninja Blade clearly had the higher production budget.
>>746486458Wolnir was probably always intended to be fought in his pocket dimension. The boss really was too big to fit in Yhorm's arena. But for the advertising he was put in the arena that made him look the largest. Elden Ring's trailer has some similar things. But Gundyr being where Ocerios was is just logical. His entire thing is being a play on Old King Doran.
>>746478638The big ovals are just better for actually fighting a challenging boss. The Consort Radahn arena has a slightly uneven floor and it literally almost ruins the fight despite appearing to be a very minor thing.
>>746454210you are the cancer that ruined the series, no, the whole genre
>>746492937That's not really evidence for anything tho. And like I said it definitely fits the setting of DeS more
>>746453741>>746456741>>746458172>>746458712>>746463645>>746467675>>746472972when was any of this actually explained?
>>746493814The game actually sets up the premise pretty well, right from the opener.There's magic, and the most powerful beings claimed a domain.Big war led to genocide on all fronts.Fire burned, gave power as long as it had fuel. Fuel ran out. Power burns out too.AND THEN, you go through the game, and there's countless situations that present those who covet will give into that passion and become hollow, because they're desperately trying to hold on to fleeting power.All hidden lore is just supplementary content to learn about specific little tales. Substantial filler, if you will.
>>746455631They never recovered from this
>>746463803>kindergarten tier "no u" come backimagine how brown and low IQ you have to be to make these kinds of posts
Another wave of shitposting has hit the thread
>>746493142congrats on being the exact problem he was referring to. Souls games are supposed to be action RPGs, not boss rush games.
>>746493814The fake Gwynevere, along with Frampt, describe succeeding Gwyn and Linking the Fire in dialogue. The item descriptions also elaborate on this, such as the Black Knight Set that is found at the Kiln of the First Flame area on the scaffolds before Gwyn's boss fight.
Dark Souls is the worst souls game
>>746493547How does a giant fire spider fit a level about going through a mineshaft fighting lizard slaves and slave masters? The logical thing would be some kind of escaped Lizard Slave Hulk or some kind of Boss Slave Master.Not a screeching spider.
>>746494716Boss fights have always been extremely important to action RPGs. Imaging playing Dragon's Dogma without the boss fights.
>>746495865Creepy animals that could lurk in the dark corners of the world, particularly crevices and tunnels. There are a bunch of monstrous fauna in the area immediately past the Armor Spider too.
>>746495963a part, not the wholeand a boss fight includes the fight in its entirety, including the arena. Not just the physical moving character by itself, independent of any context. see: capra demon
>>746494906>Nigreign no.1my brother
>>746453390Yeah we have more important news to talk about like GTA!Im having a blast just THINKING about GTA all day! I cant wait to buy it for $99.99 on Epic Games Store!Its going to be a game of the century!This thread is taking up space, mods please remove it!!
it took me more than a dozen tries to beat him that's all I ask of a final boss
>>746453340Yeah but the plin plin plon hits. It's the silence between the notes.
>>746496294Sure, but Stonefang up until that point was more obviously a semi-functional mineshaft populated by lizards, lizard people, and slave masters. There's nothing obvious about a giant roadblock screaming spider coming up as a major boss compared to something else.
>>746495865>>746497035??All the boss demons in each stage are big monsters, usually twisted forms of existing creatures. How does it not fit? It uses fire attacks like the other enemies in this firey mine (scale miners with heated swords, fire salamanders, worms that spew lava), and the whole area leading up to it is filled with spiderwebs everywhereHow does a gaint spider appearing out of nowhere in the middle of a big modern city fit in Ninja Blade?
>>746497035There are spider webs increasingly throughout the tunnels leading up to the boss fight, complete with reptilian miners being found dead and stuck to the walls by the webbing. The Archstone description for 2-1 also hints at monstrous creatures in the mines that aren't former miners, IIRC.
>>746486458>ImageStop spreading this lie. This is some anon bullshit that you've all be hoodwinked into thinking it's some leftover from an alpha build. The sentence "Only a storm can fell a greatwood" DOES apply to Yhorm because ALL giants are greatwoods. That's why there's a greatwood growing out of a coffin in Iudex Gundyr's boss arena.
>>746498015You're thinking of DS2 Giants, which are different, though some of the rumors about DS3's cut content were made up on /v/. The YouTube guys like Abyss1ne and Lance McDonald have documented the real cut content very well.
>>746498149>You're thinking of DS2 Giants, which are differentNO! Every giant is a greatwood, The Great Hollow for example is from the body of a dead giant, or I should say an executed giant that received capital punishment. That's why there's the giant head in Ash Lake and why there's the Server curved greatsword around the back of it as that is an IRL weapon that was used for decapitation.
>>746453340SUNLIGHT 4 LYFE
>>746497659The bosses in Demon's Souls usually are derived from what you fight earlier in the level or its theming. Tower Knight, Old Hero, Flame Lurker, etc. The Armored Spider versus some boss version of one of the slave masters is less obvious. Ninja Blade is a game about giant mutants and the Armored Spider being armored is significant in that game because there's a specific armor breaking mechanic in it with a certain weapon you're given for that mission. Ninja Blade was the way more expensive game to make, too. Just the pre-rendered cutscenes in that game are probably more expensive than Demon's Souls. In Ninja Blade the entire Arachne fight lasts like ~10 minutes and is very elaborate. In Demon's Souls it is a pretty simple filler fight.
>>746498325That skull is just a skull. Its just a mystery for you to wonder, "where could that have come from". The same as the giant Nausicaa skulls in Elden Ring.
>>746498527>The bosses in Demon's Souls usually are derived from what you fight earlier in the level or its theming.Yes and like I said, Armored Spider fits perfectly in the level with the other monsters and it being fire themed like the rest of the level and monsters: scale miners with heated swords, fire salamanders, worms that spew lava. You also have the whole area leading up to it filled with spiderwebs, with scale miners trapped in themNot sure how you think it makes any less sense than the other bosses you listedNinja Blade might have had higher production costs and more cutscenes, but once again it's not evidence for anything, DeS was in development for longer, it could as well easily be that they had the spider model already made for DeS and then used it as boss to ease development time and costs for Ninja BladeIt's not like Ninja Blade really had some kind of meticulously well thought out consistent enemy designs, I mean one of the bosses is literally Infected Chopper from DMC2 lol
>>746498325Why would part of the giant's body after it was murdered by Gwyn and co. become so much larger than the giant's own proportions, such as those of its head, when the giant was alive? The Great Hollow is just an Archtree that turned to wood after the Age of Fire began. It might even still have living branches growing up through and jutting out of the cliffs above Firelink Shrine.
>>746498015You can literally see the pre-release screenshot with Iundex where Oceiros now is. They were shuffling around major characters very late into development>The sentence "Only a storm can fell a greatwood" DOES apply to Yhorm because ALL giants are greatwoodsWhat in the fanfiction is this lol, you just made this shit up. No it's obviously a leftover message because DaS3 is notoriously unfinished
>>746453340This was the single most ludokino experience I ever had with a game, all of its themes came together in this fight, the arena, the silver knights just before it, the music, his moveset and weakness, pure fucking ludo and I won't have any hyper ironic /v/aggot tell me "eerm it's actually bad though???" because it isn't, it's great.
>>746454969It's alive and well
>>746486458"Only a storm can fell Greatwood" is a mistranslation. The boss Greatwood is called "great tree" in Japanese. A common Japanes idiom is "Only a storm can fell a great tree". The idea that you'd use the giant ass wind attack to strike the tiny warts of Greatwood is ludicrous.
>>746499940Miyazaki regretted making Gwyn so vulnerable to parries. Soul of Cinder phase 2 is the proper Gwyn fight.
>>746499940>Gwyn's name means white in Welsh>his theme exclusively uses white piano keysbravo zaki
>>746453340You are a nigger.
>>746499791>Why would part of the giant's body after it was murdered by Gwyn and co. become so much larger than the giant's own proportions, such as those of its head, when the giant was alive?Look at the image I posted earlier where a greatwood has grown on top of a giant coffin. Looks bigger doesn't it. This appears to be a quirk of the giants. >The Great Hollow is just an Archtree that turned to wood after the Age of Fire began.Why would an archtree turn to wood from the everlasting rock it was made of? Besides, we see in DS3 human body vessels turning into trees. There's something about the corporeal form doing this that most people haven't figured out yet. Right now I'm of the opinion that some humans are like golems in that they were created by the giants, their bodies were constructed out of wood, and would be like a human holding a doll. This isn't unfounded. We know that souls can be placed inside armor to animated them, so why not a human soul. The Vertebra Shackle hints that some believe it to be a shackle created by the gods.
>>746499517This is not a convincing counter argument.
>>746455392>ackshaully it's balanced so you have to sprint past all the enemies firstyou're an actual retarded moron.
>>746500524No him, but wood and tree mean the same thing. Just a legacy hold over because English is an old as fuck language that also adopted many Latin and Greek words.
>>746453340LA CREATIVIDAD
>>746467574>spending rare limited or expensive materials to upgrade a shield you'll only use this one time>permanently waiting in complete neutral just waiting for this attackno shit retardthe problem is not avoiding it from neutral when you expect it
>>746472504Holy shit, i regret having even a sec of blink on this faggotry that you probably made your self. Literally go back, please just go..
>>746476281This nigga was way to easy if u used magic.
>>746472504>Nioh 2 peakHahaha, fuck off anon, most people do not care for combo wanking enemies and bosses which is all Nioh 2 is.
>>746455536if the runback has to exist, then it has to be taken into consideration in the boss fight itself. which is dogshit, because you are going to be beelining straight to the boss during the runback EVERY TIME and ignore every single enemy. so it is literally just a waste of time.the only time this was not the case was back in ds2's dlc areas. and those runbacks were notoriously hated for being actual dogshit. i am GLAD that fromsoft has moved away from what bogged down des, ds1, and to an extent ds2. these games arent for you anymore, shithead.
>>746462709bloodborne story is also just milking dead gods, its always the same
>>746476281>The game was designed that way on purpose, with slow bosses and little mechanical skill requirementsmaking game design reasons up why you think 1 is better and more profound than others, but it's all wrong
>>746501694If anyone in this thread ever tries to make out that tryhards didn't ruin Fromsoft games, show them this here proving that they have ruined them.
>>746467574>>746467914>>746479128>if you twohand this +25 shield and sit still this one move can be counteredOh nice, that like no investment at all, and a new player definitely will know and try that!
>>746501884The great ones aren't dead in Bloodborne, they have ascended. When you kill an ascended being their conscious returns to their corporeal form because you are effectively waking them up. The problem with that is that their corporeal form is dead, which causes their conscious to fade away.I can understand the confusion you have, but it is not the same thing.
>>746502032It doesn't even get countered lol. Turtling waterfowl will spare your HP bar, yes but she'll still end up refilling like 1/3rd her health during the entire attack sequence so you still negate all the progress you made in the fight
>>746472504Man I cant wait for more AI Limit, only souls game I ever enjoyed, the roguelike dlc is ass though
>>746455536quite correct. however, there should be SOME bonfires at the boss gate. but not always.
>>746453340Not really. The idea was to convey Gwyn's overwhelming strength, and it works because Gwyn is like getting hit by a bus. He's head and shoulders faster and more aggressive than any other boss in the game. Even at 1% of his power, and you at your maximum power, you still have to resort to trickery (parrying, cheesing his AI around pillars) to win.
>>746453340In terrorspect, this is a retrible boss
>>746493814Prepare to Cry video number 53
>>746462945what games besides Fromsoftware do you consider to be good?
in retrospect OP is always a faggot
>>746479236Enchanted Arms is probably the worst in terms of recycling, with a good chunk of Shadow Tower Abyss enemies reused as golems and entire areas lifted from Kings Field IV. They even slapped in stuff from a cancelled Gamecube RPG.
>>746501091Yes it is. Developers putting in intentional unanswerable mysteries into their games is the most normal thing ever.
>>746501306This is either bullshit, or Miyazaki had his dirty little fingers on Demon's Souls from the very start. Not just after the game 'failed' half-way through development. . A presentation of the game's concept from early on leaked and both friendly and hostile summons were already in it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVK_rc-tnGY
>>746503563That's the opposite to your original argument, which was "That skull is just a skull". Blatant lies.
>>746501319A +25 heater shield has 64 guard boost to the brass shield's 61 at +0. Upgrade a Brass to like +6 and it's better. You can get them in Limgrave.
>>746502032>this +25 shieldSee >>746503765
>>746503723>This is either bullshit, or Miyazaki had his dirty little fingers on Demon's Souls from the very start.He was part of the game's original development. It is likely that's his idea.
>>746476124This actually applies to a lot of games. Megaman bosses are really not that hard in a vacuum because the challenge is meant to be them + the level. The concept of a runback can be executed well. The entire arcade genre is basically one big runback.
>>746503892*loads savestate*
>>746458962He hollowed by developing hollow bone syndrome over time
>>746503365>what games besides Fromsoftware do you consider to be good?Ninja Gaiden Black, Ninja Gaiden II by Itagaki-san era Team Ninja, of course.Ninja Gaiden 4 by Platinum Games, which is the best action game ever made and the best Ninja Gaiden game ever made, it single-handedly reshaped my standards and perspective on gaming, playing it at max settings 1440p 180fps locked g-sync with perfect framepacing and the lowest input lag/latency out of all action games... what a phenomenal experience, flawless. This experience alone cemented Platinum Games as the best developers in the industry, I will pre-order the most expensive edition of TMNT: The Last Ronin as soon as it appears on Steam.Hollow Knight and Hollow Knight: Silksong. Team Cherry earned their spot as one of my favourites and one of the best with Silksong, what a masterpiece and the game is only going to get better once it gets its DLC and future DLC Godhome-esque boss refights/gauntlets.Then there is Team Ninja, which has been in a steady decline, but they might actually make a good game again with Wo Long 2: Wings of Ember, since they are redesigning the entire combat and movement philosophy and injecting a lot of Ninja Gaiden elements into it, if they manage to further distance themselves from the RPG-slop of Ni(gger)oh franchise, then I will support Team Ninja again and purchase Wo Long 2.These are the only relevant developers who are on my radar.
>>746504002You cheated not only the game but yourself etc etc
>>746454359>These guys are decent bosses>ERRRRMMMMM THOSE GUYS ARE EASY Kill fromfags holy shit. Difficulty is not the only qualifier for quality.
>>746493814If you loot the Frumpus near stone at chapter 3 and follow the text description it will lead you to a grave that tells you that you need to seek darkness from within, if you read between the lines you'll find out that it drops from sewer rats with a pretty decent drop rate of 1% but you can increase it to 2% if you have full set of Blong. After you gather at least 15 of them it opens a dialogue option with an NPC that needs to be in Anor Londo at this specific point of the game and then you'll get further clues
>>746503530Hey man, Shadow Tower and Shadow Tower Abyss had an insane number of enemies for an old Fromsoft game and you wanted the company to just leave them behind? Reuse, recycle, repurpose. Never let an asset go underexploited. The STA scythe lady as a summon is really funny.
>>746503759The skull is just a skull. Its just meant to make you ask where it came from and there is no answer.
>>746472504I should go back and finish Nioh but I remember stressing myself to fuck during the Umi Bozu boss. Super easy boss in theory but I kept getting knocked off the stage or hit with big aoe's. Really I should have just put the game down and took a break but I didn't and it left a terrible taste.
>>746493435Im the benign cancer that SAVED the genregoodness gracious if the boss design of Souls wer to be the same as DeS and DS1 the series would've died a decade ago
>>746505214Yea it gets a lot better after umi bozu.
>>746505426I can't actually remember many of the bosses... I remember the Nui lightning fuck boss being fairly cool and there was the spider woman. Meh, I've put the game down for a while and at least now I actually vaguely know about the Sengoku Japan characters so I might appreciate it more.
>>746504762Oh fuck off you twat.
>>746494906>DS2 above anything>Duskbloods isn't even out yetThe hell is this
>>746501040That's just a normal tree growing near the coffin, anon. Archtrees turned into organic material in the same way that dragons turned into organic material, that's just what the First Flame did to them via disparity. Humans who are ultra-cursed and going hollow during the apocalypse begin to become somewhat like trees, but never proper trees, and it might be more accurate to say that their Humanity is trying to warp and leave their bodies a la the Pus of Man. No such "tree" is remotely as big compared to a human head as you claim the Archtrees are to that skull in Ash Lake. The Vertebra Shackle is just another signifier of the Darksign curse, not humans being homunculi.
>>746502246Some did ascend, body and soul. You're mistaking Micolash's situation with the Great Ones' situation.
>>746505745shitpostinglike all lists
>>746453340I only beat him once and I don't remember any of his attacks
>>746505380The series is as good as dead considering it's now soulless open world boss rush slop with none of the appeal of the original games
>>746505745DaS2 is easily better then DeS
>>746455392Malenia is one of the greatest bosses in fromsoft history. Only a complete shitter would complain about her.>rollslopcase in point.
>>746506514>Some did ascend, body and soul. You're mistaking Micolash's situation with the Great Ones' situation.All beings ascend from their bodies. We see Rom's body in the material realm confirming this.
>>746504076this pajeet hasnt played any of the games he's glazing btw.
>>746453340gwyn is a fine boss. you can even parry him.hes kind of a nice end boss to beat the shit out of to make you realize how powerful your character has become.you have optional faggoty bosses like manos the hands of fate to fight if you want harder shit.
>>746507407That's likely the husk of what Ebrietas metamorphosed from, anon.
>>746507704>hes kind of a nice end boss to beat the shit out of to make you realize how powerful your character has become.holy cope. just admit that das1 doesnt have any good bosses in base game.
>>746506446You don't know what you're talking about and your theories are as shallow as a puddle.Archtrees turned into organic material in the same way that dragons turned into organic material, that's just what the First Flame did to them via disparity.Descendants of dragons and archtrees were affected by disparity. The everlasting dragons and archtrees are already existing and are made of the quintessence, so no evolution is needed because they are already made of everything. What happened to them is that the god clan killed most of the everlasting dragons while the witch clan burned down the everlasting archtrees. It's literally in the opening cinematic.Again, you don't know what you're talking about.
>>746504076based taste
>>746507801It became a husk because the material form still decays and dies. However, this was not the case at the moment of ascension. I mean, you, the player, ascend to the dream world when you take paleblood, only to then return to your body in the material realm when you are beheaded by Gehrman.
>>746507868Seath was a fleshy archdragon, anon, it wasn't exclusive to the descendants. Some dragons were still stony when Gwyn and co. massacred them, but clearly enough of them survived, hiding in corners of the world, to have the kids who'd be fleshy in the modern day. Also, we can see an archdragon exhale when it roars in the DS1 intro, so they likely were already being affected by disparity by that point. The Witch of Izalith and the Daughters of Chaos also didn't burn every archtree, otherwise they wouldn't have had any way to climb up to the surface.
>>746507801>>746508157Forgot to mention, why in the fuck would it be Ebrietas when we have Rom in the dream realm.
>>746508157It's a husk in the same way a cocoon a butterfly leaves behind is a husk, anon. The player character is also still in their physical body from the moment they stand up off of that gurney. Gehrman tries to warp them to a "waking" Yharnam in a living state, but we can see from Eileen, Djura, etc. that even this doesn't provide proper freedom, and they're in the same Yharnam that the Tarnished is in during the game.
>>746508258Ebrietas is in the same room as the Rom-like husk near the Altar of Despair, and "Ebrietas" is also the name of a genus of skipper butterflies. Rom's body is also reminscient of a catapillar, not just a spider.
>>746455392They weren't just balanced as part of the level, they often WERE kinda a part of them.I can't think of a single Elden Ring (or hell, post DaS2) boss that you can already see minding their own business long before the fight like Ceaseless Discharge, Moonlight Butterfly or the Bellfry Gargoyles.
>>746508393I get the idea, especially when there are runes specifically mentioning metamorphosis, but you don't need to do that when you can just transform into another form, like the player character does in one of the endings.
>>746453340It’s a purposeful subversion. Dude has been hyped up all along as the king of everything, who killed all the dragons with his lightning bolts. Then you get there and it’s mindless husk with nothing left to give and no strategy but rushing at you with his sword. It’s slightly less obvious than it was in DeS with true Allant. And then they did it again in DaS2 with Vendrick, except he’s actually an incredibly tedious fight if you do aggro him. Glad he was optional. DeS was my favorite, because you did get a cool False King fight. Best of both worlds if you get a satisfying battle and also they drive their point home in the aftermath.
>>746505214I'm just starting Nioh since a friend gifted me. What's the best weapons to play through the game with?I want to do the dlc too
>>746507138DeS blows DS2 out of the water in level and world design
>>746478312I lol everi tiem
>>746499880>DaS3 is notoriously unfinishedI wish we got the real deal
>>746508651Tree Sentinel when you enter Limgrave? Hes not really doing anything beyond patrolling and walking around.
>>746453390>UHHHHH WHY ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT [Video Game] ON FORWARD SLASH V FORWARD SLASH - VIDEO GAMES? THERE IS A GENERAL RIGHT THERE./vg/ was a mistake
>>746511851Well, why are you?
>>746511851>/vg/ was a mistakeYou wouldn't say that if you were around seeing the LoL and KS spam when it was made.>but /v/ is already a shithole full of porn spam!Can always get worse, like if they put all the gacha threads from /vg/ here
>>746453340He feels like he is from a future game with how much aggressive he is, doing he without the parry is fucked up, there is even a swing that he does with literally 0 buildup
