It seems like Elden Ring’s balance is dictated by the consensus of whiners rather than balance itself.
>>746495448what did they change?
This happens when your test pool is fans and they balance around their own meta. gamedevs you should never do this.
>ARPG>Balanceno such thing
I like how they nerfed the spell that only worked on retards. Implying that most of the people who play this game are pee vee pee’ing retards. Lmao.
>>746495448Welcome to 90% of modern game balancing
>>746495707As someone who hates pvp I deeply despise how miyazaki ruins peoples pve experience when he “fixes” shit with only pvp in mind
>>746495707It was literally just wrath of the gods …
>>746495871nta but he's talking about gravity missile. it no longer explodes immediately when hitting terrain, so you cant just aim it at your feet for an instant explosion anymore.
>>746495979Now you can use it as a one shot setup for Rellana's Twin Moon so not much changed
>>746495979>>746495979Yes. It was literally just wrath of the gods when aimed at the ground, and it was still a bit slower than it. There was literally nothing wrong with the spell lol. OP is 100% right about the consensus of low iq morons pissing and shitting leading to such awful decision making. It was arguably one of the most well designed/versatile spells before this point. I don’t know what else to say, really. It’s just poor/bad form. Catering to the masses of idiots only punishes those actually familiar with this game.
>>746496083Rellana’s Twin Moons is also busted. A bit funny how it got buffed right before GM got butchered.
>>746495448Many such cases
>>746496127The AoE was over double the size of Golden Wrath, with higher MVs and not tied to your character's coordinate either.If you can't see why they nerfed it it's your issue.>inb4 abloobloobloo why didn't they also nerf *insert spell/weapon art here* then???
>>746496258Bro it's one of the shittiest sorceries in the game
>>746495782I thought that PvP changes didn't affect PvE in Elden Ring.
>>746496301>The AoE was over double the size of Golden WrathUm, just roll through it? You’re proving his (and now >>746496295’s) point. You are not good enough to find the easy way. It’s clear you’re just a whiner who can’t roll for shit.
>>746496347Nope. It has hyper armor and still triggers or activates even if it gets interrupted, or you get knocked down. Most people don’t know this (they think it’s not going to proc and continue to attack you to their doom), or how to jump (it works just like the boss fight!), and frequently I will one shot groups of three people around corners or in tight areas. You’re just not familiar enough with this game. I’m sorry.
>>746495448I started ER a few weeks ago, am lvl 75. Balance seems fine so far. I switch between 2 handing and greatshield+1hand depending on boss - not every enemy has to be same diff with all setups, that severly limits design and the perfect recipe for slop.
what I am angry about is:attack delay of boss is 2 secyou can get in 2 attacksthe 'net and Youtube is flooded with souls challenge played this waythey won't tell you playing like that won't win you the game, the attacks lightly caress you and you falter. That's game design
>>746496543Balance for the most part is “fine”, it’s just funny when something ”fine” changes due to a percentage of people disliking it. It could even be something underpowered, and they’ll still change it if it’s hated enough.
>>746496295Helldivers2 is exactly this. There are 10, ten fucking difficulty levels. But faggots on reddit cry that they can't solo diff10...
The third explosion in the twin moons spell is also the biggest and widest one I noticed; people always think it’s not and get fucking smoked thinking it’s over
>>746496373Why are you pretending I have problems with it?>Bro just roll through itAre you aware this applies to literally anything in Souls that isn't phantom hits that apply status effects?This is a non argument especially in invasions where people can't even see it coming because you can turn around a corner, cast it point blank on a wall and bait people into following you for an easy kill, never mind the shitty netcode which makes everything worse, it's the same thing FTH builds do with Flame of the Fell God except that this specific spell has a way longer startup and only works by hugging walls.>>746496520I have over a thousand hours in this game and NOBODY uses Rellana's twin moon because the startup is beyond slow, it's useless both in PvE and PvP outside of bullying scrubs and scrubs get bullied by fucking anything so it's a completely pointless argument, nobody who actually knows how to play is threatened by that spell
>>746496127>>746496301>>746496373sounds op for pve. was it?
>>746495448>scadu level 15>70 vigor>gaius still kills me in 2 fucking hitsnothing balanced about this piece of shit
>>746496295Expectations of lethality really gets shafted in the vast majority of games. Magic for instance is like a tank, or a shotgun. Why would a brigand in chain mail challenge an old fart with a shotgun? That’s what fighting a wizard is like. You just lose. Unless you martial it smartly.
I don't like how ER's ridiculously high level caps mean that tons of build ideas are simply not viable. For instance you can barely eek out a pure INT mage build at SL150. Doesn't help that most hybrid builds are simply not viable. Int/Arc has no synergy. Fth/Arc has the dragon communion seal but nothing else going for it. Int/Fth has dogshit scaling unless you're ridiculously high level, and has like one weapon that actually scales int/fth. Why wasn't there an infusion for that path like pyro/dark in DaS2-3? Quality absolutely blow chunks too.
>>746496765Nope. It was a very good group solution. Very fun and enjoyable to fall back on in times of panic, which is something that all wizards should have. Too bad Miyazaki thinks wizards shouldn’t have contingencies.
>>746496805Gaius is absolute bullshit. Not only is the shitbox on his charge attack insane, but the game cheats and he actually gains i-frames during the entire charge. I could justify it if they just gave him hyperarmor, but no, your attacks will just straight up phase through him during that charge.
>>746496765Is Comet overpowered in PvE? No it’s not. >>746496736You’re just not familiar enough. Sorry.!
>>746496736>the startup is beyond slowIt’s actually not. The two moons still work even if it gets interrupted. Same with Cherishing Fingers. I don’t know if it’s a bug, but, it’s very stupid. The moons and fingers will still appear after the spell’s interruption.Go again and try it for yourself.
>>746497004I’ve also noticed this for cherishing fingers. It has a background cast that is totally separate from the player’s cast, wtf.
>>746497004Yeah the third (biggest) explosion is ONLY if you don’t get interrupted.
>>746496765It was pretty obnoxious because the MV on the explosion is really high and you could shoot it behind shields as well, it could easily chunk you for 40%-60% HP with no counterplay>>746497004Nobody is going to interrupt you unless they're 80 STR characters that two hand weapons and literally one shot you out of the animation, people just run away and then throw a giant pot at your or kill you with some other ranged bullshit, why do you think the spell is good because it still goes off if you get knocked out of the initial casting when you can simply RUN THE FUCK AWAY and let people waste their FP and also get hurt for free?Do you also think Romina's gay butterflies are good because exactly like the twin moons the spell still fires off if you're knocked out of the casting animation?
I just tried the two moons on those four sorcerer enemies (the ones with the giant jar) at the academy. None of their spells stopped or prevented me from casting it and they fucking blew up. There is indeed hyper armor to the spell. The jar man still knocked me down though.
>>746496127What's even funnier is how spells tend to get nerfed into oblivion, despite them typically needing hyper-specific dedicated builds to actually do good damage. Like with the gravity missile, you're going to need ridiculously high INT at the expense of all else, your main casting stick in one hand, the meteorite staff in the other for the boost, 2 ring slots dedicated to boosting sorcery and 1 ring slot dedicated to increasing casting speed, then you have to play unlocked and aim point blank at the ground for an attack with a slow casting animation and an obvious tell. Meanwhile, ashes of war are a thing that exists and are utterly fucking broken from day 1. How many instances are there of spells that are useless in their traditional sorcery form but the AoW variation can be slapped onto any weapon on any build and is 10x stronger? There is so much L2 shit that is just absolutely ridiculous but almost all of it gets a pass.
>>746497246Anon I’m sorry if you’ve never actually utilized those spells properly. That you can’t utilize them properly doesn’t mean others can’t or won’t. But yes running away from the twin moons (since they appear to proc even if interrupted) is the best strategy. But within tight spaces this might not be so easy.
>>746496823I did a full int/faith playthrough when SotE came out and it was fun. From a game design perspective yeah hex was cool (and my character was based on my old dark soul 2 hex character funnily enough) but it doesn’t really need much. The benefit of having multiple stats is that you can cast basically every spell. The point is you can experiment, same with quality. It probably shouldn’t be as effective as a pure min maxed one.Besides you have the fundamentalist and ghost magics, which are pretty good. The actual reason INT/Faith isn’t as cool as it should be is the control scheme. It’s pretty clunky it shift through multiple spells. If you could for instance “favorite” spells for each catalyst and wand you better take advantage of your Jack of all trades spell caster aspect but you can’t. Being able to seamlessly spam rancor call or wrath of gold up close would be great
So from what I’m gathering from this thread is that Mike Zaki is a dumb dumb
>>746497282I like how they reduced Comet Azur’s usefulness even though it’s the most situational and build dependant spell in the entire goddamned game. With three slots you’d think they’d just leave it.
>>746497338Nobody is stupid enough to chase an INT character in tight spaces unless they're literally clueless, this is just empty theorycrafting with no basis in reality.Might as well pretend Wrath of Gold is a godlike spell because theoretically you can throw people into pits with it but nobody falls for that shit and the spell is also way too fucking slow to enable it in the first place, if you want something to glaze there's stuff like Giant Golden Arc, don't pretend Rellana's twin moon is worth anything when nobody uses it, even the current setup will become useless in a week when people catch up to the meta and will see it coming the moment they see the gravitational missile slapped on the ground
>>746497345I just wish Gideon’s cane was the faith/int staff instead of Metyr’s. You’d think they’d have seen the obviousness of this.
>>746497345It could've been balanced the same way as INT/FTH stuff in previous games. Casting with an INT/FTH build will give good output specifically on hybrid spells (whatever you want to call them since hexes/pyromancies don't exist). My hexer build in DS2 technically could use various miracles and sorceries, but it was almost never worthwhile to do so because my stat spread was designed for maximizing dark damage with a 30/30 split and a dark sunset staff. Casting soul spear would be underwhelming. 100% agreed about how clunky the control scheme for casting is though. I'm glad ER somewhat advanced how casting works, with spells having normal/charged variations, spells that can be used while running/jumping/rolling, spells that can be used while walking, etc. It's all much more fluid than the awkward old days. But needing to cycle through a spell list is still clunky and awkward. Especially frustrating when the whole ash of war system exist, and it goes basically unused for staffs/seals. We should've been able to AT THE VERY LEAST hotkey a spell to L2/R2.
>>746497559>Nobody is stupid enough to chase an INT character in tight spacesLike lemmings https://www.reddit.com/r/badredman/comments/1w08a88/cmon_the_spell_wasnt_that_broken/
>>746496654Really?I remember clearly during the first 6 months the devs were constantly nerfing to the ground shit nobody asked for while letting the best weapon in the game completely untouched. Like they even demolished the explosive crossbow soon after it was released despite being a shit weapon.
>>746497665Lmao when “it’s broken” means “I’m tarded”
>>746497665This is who the devs balance the game for.
>>746498214The masses of casual normies. Yes. The bread and butter of their plausrbase. Yes. Is there a problem here? Do you not want them to make money? Do you want them to lose customers? Yes?
>>746497665Okay but what is this, like SL20? There are a bunch of different factors that all had to come together to make a perfect storm here. For one, an extreme instance of twinking. Low level, dual meteorite staves, and a spell you don't get without getting past a notoriously difficult end-game DLC boss and then beating another mini-boss after that. And then on top of that, you had to have all three co-opers all act like brainless lemmings just blindly rushing into a blind corner during an invasion, one after another. Someone could just as easily achieve the same effect with a dozen other ashes of war or spells, and probably for considerably less effort and setup.
>>746497665How did you miss the >literally clueless partWhile posting a video of literally clueless people getting twinked?>>746497704They nerfed it because it could oneshot people at point blank and that was made even worse by the phantom hits on bleed bolts, same reason why they nerfed things like the chicken leg.The real question is why they refuse to BUFF a lot of shit like Electrocharge or Watchful Spirit which have literally never been good under any circumstance in either PvE or PvP, that's the actual baffling shit.
>>746498716>same reason why they nerfed things like the chicken leg.wait, bloodfiend arm got nerfed? When and how? That thing carried me through the DLC at launch but I haven't played since.
>>746498716>cluelessUm.
>>746498716Clueless you say?>sees friend die to color of death>walk right into color of death >”wtf what happen”
>>746498809They nerfed it well over a year ago, they also nerfed a lot of other ARC things Mohg's trident so the NIHIL AoE doesn't hit people through walls anymore, it still hits through ceilings and floors though lmaoLots of things got nerfed.
>>746498716>they couldn’t possibly see it coming Holy cope
its been like this since dark souls 1.they view the reddit and see whats getting the most flak and then nuke it into the ground
>>746497004>>746497069>>746497114DLC sorceries feature a unique safety net where the visual threat will still spawn and crash down even if you are staggered or knocked out of the animation mid-cast.
>>746497665The situational awareness of certain players is something else.
>There are shitters itt that complain about Elden Ring's Dark Bead equivalent getting fixedYou're really outing yourself
>>746500185To be fair the last one was holding up a shield and only got fucked over because he wised up too late and turned around at the exact moment the spell went off so the shield didn't save him
>>746500185unless you got those 2 staves and that explosion legitimately you have zero fucking excuse for using endgame spells against new players
>>746500645Endgame spells shouldnt be nerfed for the sake of a handful of edge cases where a low level twink made it through mohg, into the DLC, and past Gaius, and then beat the base game to get to NG+ for an extra meteor staff
>>746500352>to be fair the last one was only slightly less retarded
souls pvp people are insufferable jesus christ
>>746501557Yep they ruin everyone’s experience. Even the people who have never once been interested in PvP.
>>746495448The parry changes were good...for pve, which is the only thing that should matter.
>>746501764parry is too good in pve tho
>>746501764pve has never mattered
>>746496127I don't really have any strong opinions on gravity missile, but your pissing yourself in impotent rage over what was ultimately just one of many, many spells wizard tards just mindlessly spammed is pretty funny.Oh no now what will you do *spams stars of ruin w/ your gank buddies*
>>746501984>how dare you have a favorite spell
>>746501949*carian retaliation is too good in pveBringing dagger (especially when you're sacrificing the ability to block) and buckler parries up to that level was a good move.>>746501965Yeah it's only the vast majority of the game's content.Holy shit imagine being a try hard over fucking Souls pvp. Just play a real fighting game at that point.
>>746502051Now you can experiment and find new favorite spells :^)
>>746502051>only favourite spells are "I win" buttonsOh yeah, I am sure you were a big fan of unnerfed Rivers of Blood too.
>>746502131>Holy shit imagine being a try hard over fucking Souls pvp. Just play a real fighting game at that point.For real. Maybe now that fromsoft is branching out to multiplayer slop like nightrein/duskbloods they'll just shift the sweaty "balanced" dueling shit over to those types of games, and the actual souls RPGs can go back to invasions just being this thing where you just fuck around and its not meant to be serious
>>746504056>Just play a real fighting gameBut fighting games suck
>>746496805Wear armor, defensive talismans and use consumables then. You can tank PCR on NG easily.
>>746495448In retrospect, all the RPG-slop of FromSoftware are garbage: Dark Souls 1, Dark Souls 2, Dark Souls 3 and especially Elden DOGSHIT Ring.Demon's Souls gets a pass for being the foundation of "modern" FromSoftware.The only truly good games that "modern" FromSoftware has ever made are Bloodborne, Sekiro, Armored Core VI and The Duskbloods: all games that significantly reduced the RPG-slop elements or abandoned them completely.
>>746495448FUCK THE GARBAGE GAME DARK SOULS 1 (RPG-SLOP)FUCK THE GARBAGE GAME DARK SOULS 2 (RPG-SLOP)FUCK THE GARBAGE GAME DARK SOULS 3 (RPG-SLOP)FUCK THE DOGSHIT GAME ELDEN DOGSHIT RING (OPEN-WORLD-SLOP + RPG-SLOP)FUCK ALL THE LOW IQ SUBHUMAN NORMALFAG WHORESONS WHO ENJOY THESE GARBAGE/DOGSHIT CANCER GAMES.LONG LIVE BLOODBORNE, THE FIRST STEP IN REDUCING THE RPG-SLOP CANCER ELEMENTS!LONG LIVE SEKIRO AND ARMORED CORE VI, THE NEXT STEPS TOWARDS PROPER ACTION GAMEPLAY BY FROMSOFTWARE.LONG LIVE THE DUSKBLOODS, BY FAR THE BEST ACTION-FOCUSED GAMEPLAY WITH DEPTH IN ITS CORE COMBAT AND MOVEMENT DESIGN THAT FROMSOFTWARE HAS EVER MADE! THE DUSKBLOODS IS THE NEXT EVOLUTION AND MASSIVE STEP IN THIS BEAUTIFUL ACTION-DIRECTION PATH THAT FROMSOFTWARE IS ON, MAY IT CONTINUE FOREVER MORE.THANK YOU THE DUSKBLOODS, THANK YOU NINTNEDO, THANK YOU MIYAZAKI AND FROMSOFTWARE.
>>746495448sounds like you are whining
>>746495707Glintstone pebble and star shower didn’t get nerfed though
>>746504604So does souls PVP when its sweaty tryhards.The issue of phantom range alone that's been in the series since DeS, which makes strategies like proper spacing totally invalid, by itself renders serious PVP a jokeSouls PVP is supposed to be fucking around like using chameleon and force to hide in sens fortress and then push people off cliffs.Hell even based B Team understood this in DaS2, particular the NPC invasions in the DLC areas. The invader who disguises himself as a barrel and waits to backstab you when you open a chest, or mauldron pretending to be a friendly white phantom and then being a cunt and running away to bank you with the covetous demon or running away when low on health in brume tower
>>746505673>which makes strategies like proper spacing totally invalidthis is like saying anti-airing is completely invalid in fighting games because sometimes matchmaking pairs you with a mexican on a toaster
>>746505847Apples and bowling balls. Fromsofts netcode is a complete fucking joke
>>746505673>phantom rangeBut you can space around phantom range.It works in the other direction as well so you can run into attacks that touch you on your screen but not on theirs.But yes, PvP duel tryhards are kinda stupid. But not nerfing Gravitational Missile would also be stupid.It was the same issue as the bugged perfumer flask AoW and people cried like little faggots once that got fixed.
>>746500645PvP is a problem because the game itself from the ground up isn't built for symmetrical PvP in any way, shape or form.Phantom range is actually the one thing that assures the game won't be a constant stalemate because the frame data itself is not built around symmetrical PvP, which is why everything that is even vaguely unreactable gets immediately nerfed to the ground and why duels are an endurance challenge that is completely reliant on whoever gets fucked by the netcode the hardest because everything is reactable, which is also why true combos are a thing and are also so coveted by the sweatiest PvP players and redmen together with minmaxed builds that oneshot.
I bought the horse armor DLC where do I get the horse armor and where is the earliest I can get some of these new weapons?
>>746506291The only one that matters is the new Mirrah Greatsword, which you get from an invasion just north of the grace you get after defeating Radahn.The rest are just early shittier versions of DLC weapons or the new gimmick flail (that's not very good).
>>746506846>The only one that mattersFound the faggot.Earlier access to DLC weapon types was something people wanted for a while.
>>746507108Not to mention the new GCS being a genuinely good weapon for endgame since it has the second highest GB after the Beastman's GCS while having incredibly low requirements for AR equivalend to the Dismounter.
>>746507108Sure, but paying an extra 5 dollars for what is, very intentionally, just worse versions of the weapons you'll have to upgrade all over again is possibly the most questionable implementation that could have gone for.At that point, why not just plop the actual weapons into the base game instead? Would starting with the Milady or Great Katana really break the game?The answer is no because I know how to use cheat engine and I've done runs with early DLC weapons before.
>>746507292>you'll have to upgrade all over againThat's such a non-issue.
>>746507292>Hurr just drop DLC weapons that are specifically made to reward people to do that content into the base gameI'm glad you'll never work on a videogame
>>746507282Pretty sure it's just strictly worse than the Freyja's Greatsword, GB included.
>>746507482>DLC weapons that are specifically made to reward people to do that content into the base gameThey're rewards for dropping 20 bucks on DLC, let's not flatter ourselves here.
>>746506018It's not, it works perfectly for what it is trying to do and that is evident whenever you fight someone on a normal internet connection in a local region. All complaints regarding "netcode" are actually complaints that the typical person you are matched with when invading into a specific zone with a specific SL and a specific weapon upgrade level and a specific covenant trying to pick from a list of PvE'ers who did not opt into online play will on average give you a mexican on a toaster
>>746506240I'll add that you could reaction parry everything that's parryable too.No latency PvP would be an entirely different game.
>>746507493Not by much, Freya's GS has like 2 more points in GB and is an endgame weapon with nearly double the STR requirements, it has better resistances though and scales higher with STR at +25, the Hefty Scimitar on the other hand is a starting weapon, and a really good one as far as infusable weapons are concerned.
>>746506846The other weapons are valid too. If you want to play with the classes of weapons from the DLC you shouldnt have to beeline to an endgame area just to play with them. They also should've made a perfumer starting class with one of those obtainable earlier on too.The big issue is simply that theyre charging 5 dollars for it. It should be free to anyone who bought SotE
I wish hackazaki would take a page from Best Souls 2 and allow us to infuse twinkling weapons, buff twinkling/infused weapons, infuse casting implements, etc. Just let the people have fun, holy shit
>>746508215Blame Bandai Namco.
>>746495448>Elden Ring’s balance is dictated by the consensus of whinersAnd yet this shit has remained OP since 2022
I wish they stuck to their idea for ER not having PVP.
>>746496363Not only did the separation for PvP and PvE changes happened midway through the Elden Ring patches, but some PvP focused changes still made their way to PvE (Like making the tracking on certain spells worse)
>>746508875Not really. Even hitting big enemies multiple times is kinda random.
>>746508893I would've hated that because invasions were always my favorite aspect of the souls games, but seeing how things turned out in ER, where PVP is a tedious unfun slog, I honestly agree with you. But I would never have known beforehand that it would be so terrible
>>746509081"Kinda random" doesn't matter much when my unoptimized non 80FTH build can still 3 shot Elden Beast
>>746509192>it can 3 shot one of the biggest enemies in the gameNow use it on Mohg.
these are the people complaining about balance
>>746496805I summoned jellyfish and used Wing crucible ash of war on a fire knight greatsword and it nukes his faggot ass.
>>746495448What’s there to balance around press circle followed by R1 combat? Lol fromtrannies are so sad
>>746495448Because there is no balance in open world leveling game.
>>746509510Ah yes, because DeS was so balanced, amirite
>>746509505What? No no no, that's totally outdated slanderous nonsense that only applies to Dark Souls 3. In ER it's press circle followed by L2 combat
>>746495448This is probably some PvE shitter baby thread but I really, really don't get why they nerfed off-hand Rakshasa with the new patch.Not only was it generally not that broken, there are plenty of other true combos in the game so targeting the off-hand Rakshasa + Wakizashi true combo just feels really weird.Not to mention that this setup wasn't even particularly that good for invasions and was mainly a dueling setup so it's not like shitters had a reason to cry about it.
>>746509413I hate how I know exactly who posted this on twitter and how it was just a humble xenoblade weeb who admitted he sucked and was looking forward to getting gud. And you're a cumslurping faggot reposting his clip pretending he's a whiny shitter.Kill yourself
>>746509963Any true combo that recieves enough attention will get removed. It's as simple as that.
>>746509963i don't think any pveers were using offrak to do pve, much less on their 1st playthrough
>>746509963Rakshasa is a flat vig check. Ashes of war look different from regular attacks and usually have a wind up. Rakshasa just looks like a regular r1 swing and yet it has max hyperarmor and does 2 swipes that wipe out most of a 60vig healthbar. It's just lazy to rely on it as a pvper. If you have some crazy duel hand combo that took you time to formulate then fromsoft doesn't care. They're looking out for shitters who don't have skill...
>>746510148>/v/ using anything and everything to create strawmen for baiting/shitpostingSeems normal.
