What are your hot takes on the genre?
>>746603191Gachas are the new MMOs
>>746603581that's the truth thought. former MMO player and current gacha player
All content should be soloableAny group content should be as seamless to find a group as doing it soloPvP should be removedCombat should be about tactics and stats, not sweaty gameplayThe levelling journey and story should be the focus of the game, not endgameNo temporary events, make permanent content insteadGrinding the same content a million times just for some rare drop is fucking shit and shouldn't be in the game
Gacha's are better than MMOs
>>746604847Just say youre too shit to handle ultimates/mythic
>>746605863I don't play blizzslop
>>746603191leveling is the best part and end game sucks
>>746604847>Combat should be about tactics and stats, not sweaty gameplayelaborate and which stats and what tactics?
>>746603191Raiding and raid culture is the gayest thing ever, long ass hours coordinating with other fags, dealing with tryhards and drama that emerges from statics, cliques, and the like
>>746604847>All content should be soloableYes. People stuck sitting in queues and chatting up LFG for hours will quit for a game that respects their time.>Any group content should be as seamless to find a group as doing it soloHard to do. You don't want cross server queues because people won't socialize with others they're not going to see again. You could probably just announce needed roles in the UI.>PvP should be removedPvP games are the most popular games by far. People reward playing with real opponents and friendlies more than AI.>Combat should be about tactics and stats, not sweaty gameplayI can't think of an MMO that has sweaty gameplay.>The levelling journey and story should be the focus of the game, not endgameApproximately nobody likes questing and mob grinding for dozens to hundreds of hours of a dumbed down, forced tutorial that massively segregates players, obsoletes 90% of professions and the world, and only provides miniscule amounts of gold. Pic related -- the supposedly best version of the most popular MMO (vanilla Classic) only got 800k 60s in 6 years (Icy Veins).
>>746603581I wish they weren't, they took the bad shit like fomo, battle passes, multiple types of mtx, dailies, asinine grinding and removed multiplayer aka the only fucking fun part of mmos, who's actually consuming this dogshit? You need help
>>746603581this, low iq games evolved from mmos
>>746606610Stats of the skills you train on your journey and the gear you acquire.Tactics like how to combo your abilities for extra damage, the weaknesses of the enemy, or using lifesteal for healing. Most games have this to some degree, but they fuck it up by demanding moba-style frantic gameplay with tight execution windows, when that is fundamentally at odds with what RPGs are about.
>>746603191MMOs that let you solo content are dogshit. If you can solo comfortably past beyond lv10, you made a piece of shit game that is not massively multiplayer, you made a tedious and boring single player game that has chatrooms. Thanks for coming to my TEDtalk
>>746605863Ultimates aren't RPG content. They're puzzle content in a sterile environment with no class or strategy choices with tradeoffs. FF14 is a joke and a blight on the genre. Ultimates have no business in any RPG discussion and the amount of difficulty in memorizing the steps to solve them is irrelevant. Mythic is fine.
>>746607671>single player game that has chatroomsYeah that's literally what MMOs are about. If you like all the tedium and drama of organising groups then go be a wedding planner, what the fuck are you doing in a role playing game?
>>746607958>single player >what an MMO isWhat does the acronym "MMO" stand for, anon
>>746603191Koreans make the best ones if only they didn't come with the most blatant P2W bullshit there is. I probably would've just ruined my life even harder if I decided to stick around following them.
>>746607671Again, people getting to play the game instead of waiting in line will actually make your game more popular than one that has queues and LFG chats.Being able to play solo doesn't make your game not an MMO. This isn't refutable.
>>746608115Things like chat rooms and player economies ARE the core of the multiplayer in the genre. By your logic most games in the genre, including the founding game of the genre, aren't MMOs which is just a retarded take.
>>746603191Instanced content is gay and should not be a thing; that includes dungeons, raids and pvp.The more MMOs leverage instanced content the less 'MM' MMOs become.
>>746608279>he thinks selling something to another player is the cornerstone of multiplayer in an MMOYou can just admit you're an inbred moron who can't play well with others
>>746608363Your game would lose to one with structured PvE and PvP.
Osrs is the only good mmo. Wow ruined the market for mmos by giving every company the idea that they will only succeed if you follow its formula. Themepark mmos are boring as hell because they never give you any incentive to revisit older locations thus creating a world that becomes 90 percent dead content.
The single driving factor to making MMOs good is having a massive community. The lower your player count, the more likely you are to run into social rejects or degenerate freaks.Back during the "golden age" of MMOs, even the most obscure free to play MMOs had a playerbase that is comparable to what most modern MMOs achieve today.In my opinion, the only way we are ever going to see that kind of resurgence in player count is for a revolutionary new game to come out that. Something like a Fulldive MMO that you commonly see in Manga/Anime.
>>746607671You're wrong, because at no point was massively multiplayer intended to mean you had to have groups to wipe your own ass.
>>746608492I don't care.
>>746608431Says the fag who can't appreciate the entire point of RPGs. Why are you shitting up MMOs? Go play LoL or Overwatch if you want bing bing wahoo with other people
>>746607671>MMOs that let you solo content are dogshit.Definitely a hot take since you can easily see why this is a bad idea when you play an older MMO with less players. I don't disagree with it, but when you're stuck doing some shitter level 15 dungeon by yourself and that's designed with 3 people in mind, you'll just quit right then and there.
>>746608648No argument because you're too mad I'm right? Not my fault you're a shitter
>>746607486>how to use the combos of your abilities>but it CANNOT be fast because I cant keep up and then it doesnt count as tacticsAnd no retard, rpgs do not mean gameplay has to be braindead uncslop
>>746608740Underage faggot detected.
>>746608431Trading is one of the pillars of a fantasy-meets-reality, all things are possible living world.
>>746608610>Skyrim is my favorite MMO
>>746608739No, he's right, you don't know what you're talking about. Do you want to know why I had to group up in Ultima Online? It wasn't because I needed help grinding my skills, you could do all the PvE content solo if you were left alone. It was because I needed protection in numbers from other players trying to kill me.
>>746603191/v/ is an MMO
>>746608805Where did the term MMORPG come from?
>>746603191Stagnant genre that didn't take advantage of VR when it should have, thus missing the opportunity to create the next biggest thing in gaming. At each epoch of video games, online RPGs have been there in some capacity, MUDS > Graphical MUDS > Network RPGs > MMOs > nothing. The VR epoch was skipped over and now the next big thing is going to be AI, so an MMO would need to incorporate AI to be relevant again. To appease the normalfag anti-AI crowd, it'd probably need to be developed in-house "ethically", rather than "unethically" using scrapers like the rest of tech has been using.I think a world with characters run by an AI agent could be pretty engaging, so long as it was handcrafted properly rather than being procgen slop. We shall see where the market goes, but if they skipped VR, they will most likely also skip AI. The penultimate would have been if they didn't skip VR, because then we'd have VRMMOs with AI agents running the world, which'd be truly addictive/immersive.
>>746608762You've never played a real rpg in your life
>>746608853>oh no I had to ask other people in an online game to help me in my playSounds like you got the intended experience, retard
>>746608970VR mmos with current tech sound like absolute shit
>>746609219Do you not understand the difference between needing other people to do literally anything and needing people so I don't get killed by other people?
>>746603191MMOs are dead. What's titled as MMO now is basically just glorified multiplayer games. No such thing as community anymore. And community is basically the made MMOs special.
>>746609342But you said you can solo all PVE. It's no one's fault that players are taking advantage of your low level in online play. Sounds like a skill issue if you couldn't progress alone
>>746603191>MMOtrannyslop
>>746609503>low levelRetard
>>746609321They are now, but imagine the push theyd get if people bought them to actually play games. The only killer app for VR is VRChat, and that runs fine, so there's no real push for VR tech to grow. But if a multi-million player game existed, then companies would invest in the tech.I dont even like MMOs or VR, it's just something I think should have happened.
>>746609920Nigger
MMOs are godawful. All the time you put into them could be spent playing who knows how many other games that are actually fun and rewarding/memorable experiences. MMO games all have the same drawbacks - gameplay like a 5-9 job, paper thin story, (HUAHUE MUH LORE, THOUGH) terrible art direction, boring/mindless "combat," (that term is used very generously) and pointless self-aggrandizing circle jerks over who has the best pvp/gear. Endgame is non-existent outside of raids and it only exists as a fashion show for lames to show off gear they spent 500hrs to collect piece by piece. MMOs in their modern state (circa 2000 and on) are an absolute mistake and never should have caught on as a phenomenon
>>746603191Mmo should be perma death. But everytime you reach a milenstone, reaching that same milestone should be easier after your character died(acquire the same gear, faster levelling etc)
>>746610367You're partially right but MMOs do have the advantage of being the only games that do RPGs right. In most single player RPGs you take over half the world in a single play session. An MMO gives you the feeling of journey and scope better than the single player titles ever could. Simply compare Skyrim to ESO, KOTOR to TOR, or FF 1-10 to FF 11 and 14
>>746610942There's this one MMO I used to play and I like that you could join fametrains and go to endboss dungeons instantly and if you were good at dodging you could rack up XP hella fast
>>746609948I think an MMO that supports VR as a 3D experience would do well, but I don't think VR will necessarily do well without games. 50" monitors are like $175.
>>746610367>Endgame is non-existent outside of raidsThemepark problem.
>What are your hot takes on the genre?An MMO that completely supports a real money auction house with cash payouts would be massive. There is zero reason these companies shouldn't just play middle man officially.
>>746611036I really didn't get the feel of being on an adventure, MMOs are not that immersive to me. It feels like exactly what it is - grinding for levels, then burning through a piece of content that barely connects to the next with a flimsy story through-line. It's especially hard to feel immersed when all you see is world chat full of immersion breaking nonsense. Nobody role plays, unless they're jerking off with each other.
>>746610942A permadeath MMO would lose to a softcore or a mediumcore MMO. Losing affinity to a character every time you die is stupid.
>>746611289didn't diablo 3 try that? i forgot why it didn't work but i assume it has something to do with needing to be absolutely 100% secure and mmos usually aren't
>>746611293Depends on the game ofc. LOTRO has given me the best sense of adventure of any game, and SWTOR does it pretty well too.
>>746603191There has never been an MMO with good gameplay
>>746611351They removed it for whatever reason, but I'm sure it lost a lot of players.
>>746611036FF11 and 14 feel like absolute fucking shit compared to the single player FFs. What're you talking about?
>Literally the greatest mmo of all time
>>746610367>>746611379WoW PvP is some of the most structured and fun gameplay in the industry.
>>746611439In some ways sure, but they nail scope and long term progression better than the single player titles. 12 is the best single player title partially because it manages to get across the scope that 11 developed.
>>746611351>didn't diablo 3 try that?Yep, they absolutely did. There was a lot of hate but it was kinda nice to get a starter set of gear and then list anything you didn't need that rolled well. MMO players already RMT as much as possible, it's just a game of who hides it best.
>>746611364It's my own personal taste mostly, and it also translates to a typical console RPG as well. If I have to stop and grind before the next story set piece, I'm immediately out of the immersion. It's just very prominent in MMOs to have to grind
All modern MMOs (WoW and onwards) are shit, especially FFXIV.>themepark>hyper casual>"endgame" focus, no journey focus>non-social>etcHonestly, you can't even call modern MMOs MMOs anymore.
>>746611481>watch man auto battle, click macros sometimes God awful, that's not gameplay. That's movie watching with a little bit of cookie clicker in between
>>746611546Yeah that's pretty common. In LOTRO if you try to do all the quests in each area then typically you won't need to grind anything. Same with SWTOR. But that's for levelling and story, idk about endgame gear.
>>746611539FF was never about long term progression, it was about pacing.
>>746611598From what I understand modern wow's end game(Legion onward) has become anything besides hyper casual.
>>746611351>>746611289Diablo 3 did try that and Acti-Blizzslop fucked it up so now no one does it. There are a few problems with money in games:>1 - ChildrenDiablo was perfect because it was a popular M - Mature title which holds parents responsible if they let their children get ahold of it. It's often illegal to allow any title below M - Mature to have anything resembling gambling aimed at children or anything similar.>2 - ItemizationI preordered Diablo 3's collector edition. I played it for a few hours and immediately requested a complete refund. The game was shit out of the box and took years to fix ... if you even agree they "fixed" it. Not only was the itemization shit, but the drop rates weren't adjusted for rare loot to account for the existence of the Auction House. Really quickly the best items in the game could be bought for pennies on the Auction House and *poof* there was little to no incentive to play the actual game. Acti-Blizzard was not up to the fucking task and now no one else even bothers to try.
>>746611616Frost mage PvP is some of the most skillful gameplay in the industry.
>>746612025I respectfully disagree. WoW is not a skilled game to play and I cannot be persuaded to the contrary
>>746612080Then where's your glad?
>>7466122918==D
Is having no classes and only stats or archetypes a good idea for an MMO
>>746612703>Everything doable on one character.Yes.
>>746612978ffxiv accomplishes this by attaching the classes to the equipped weapon and having no manual stats
>>746611289You’re retarded there’s so many reasons this wouldn’t work, the only people who’d want this are third worlders who dream of making money playing MMOs. For a first worlder being able to buy the best items for two bucks just seems retarded, nobody wants a game to be that connected to irl
>>746613364So are the stats on the weapon as you level?
>>746613364FFXIV is the worst MMO in recent history and only managed to escape from that title by being popular, for some god-forsaken reason. We don't need to discuss it.
Are there essential stats an MMO should have?I guess HP and MP, if you had to pick 8 so 8-2Which?
>>746613682pretty much, it's all attached to the equipmentso I think most people who have ever played will only have one character and just do everything on one character by changing armor sets
>>746613450>Two dollars.More like two hundred. Average US income is $65k. A real money auction house would bring the rich and poor together like no other. You could invest some of the real money you're making back into your character to save time buying your favorite playstyle. If you just want to make money, you could quit your low to mid level job and make a career out of playing video games. Real money doesn't make playing the game less fun if the game is designed well and you're a laid back person. It's a win-win.
>>746613996ARK is good.
>>746603191mmos ran by megacorps are good for keeping them up during crisis
>>746611339>affinityThis only happens because MMO are full time job. And a lot of "annoying features" in modern MMO only makes that "job" worse, time-gating, extreme rng etc. With perma death you can remove all those. And instead of affinity to a character, you'll building affinity to your character's famility line(john warrior II, son of fallen John Warrior) through previous generation's unlocked perks.Starting fresh on an MMO where everyone is on the end game is discouraging new players. But with permadeath, no one is permanently on end game, unless you hire other player for "protection" which adds another dynamic to the game.Session based games are some of most popular type of the game right now and MMO imho could learn from that.
>>746603191Stop catering to poopsockers, stop catering to drooling retards. There, MMOs are fixed
>>746614232Affinity is relevant in any genre. People want to self-insert, and they can't do that if their character dies.And you can already have reasonable time gates and RNG if you make equipment repairs cost materials.Endgame design is a themepark problem. Just make a sandbox without levels.
I don’t know man but I’m about to start another vanilla wow character on a dead 200 pop serverAfter flunking off MnM, Corepunk, etc. fuck this dead arse genre
>>746614581Ever tried Project Gorgon?
>>746613996the big threestrengthintelligenceagilityeverything else is secondary
>>746614868No but it doesn’t look appealing to me
>>746615037Well there's a free demo if you wanna try it I guessThere's always Mabinogi if you want to be a degenerate weeaboo
>>746614906I had those on my list too but with a different name so that's 5hp mp str int spd ? ? ?Some games also do magic atk/magic def and is def even good to have as stat or just put everything into hp?
>>746615106No I hate animeTrust bro if there was anything out there that interested me, I would’ve tried it by now. It’s ogre
>>746615142>I want a p2w MMO non anime artstyle with RMTDude your taste is so ungodly shit it's unreal
Community is the most important part about an mmo. Big or small a game lives and dies by that community.
>>746615142Well I dunno what to tell you buddy, maybe you need to change your mindset?
>>746613450No, you're retarded. There is nothing wrong with people being able to make money from playing MMOs all day.
>>746614047>>746616168Have you guys ever played MMOs with RMT lol? It's usually like a dollar for many many hours of in game grinding. Because the prices can go REALLY low before a BR or Chinese guy will give up a job playing a video game in AC
>>746616409>Have you guys ever played MMOs with RMT lol?Yes, have you?
>>746616549I'm looking this up and it seems to be the most expensive item in the game that people say take YEARS to farm for hundreds (keep in mind this is with RMT not legally allowed) of dollars? Maybe you could get it to 200 but if it took that long it wouldn't be efficient.
>>746616923There are no MMOs that just straight allow RMT. They'll only show ignorance to keep their subscribers subscribed.
