Are /v/ Reasonable Consumers?
Change Consumers to Console Owners.I have a ton of loicenses and i own them all even if i lost my account tomorrow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWSIFh8ICaA
>>746655368No.
>>746655368I think the one piece missing from this is that you gotta grab like 100 of the dumbest retards from the American midwest and ask them. They'll almost unanimously say "yes, it's my game, I bought it" and case closed>bbbbbut consensus doesn't = truthNo but consensus proves that ownership of what you buy is a "reasonable" conclusion>but retarded people aren't reasonableThe average consumer is assumed to be a retarded single mom who is juggling multiple jobs and is too busy to do the mental heavy lifting that new York Jews do
>>746655368If buying isn't owning, pirating isn't stealing.
>>746655368Yes /v/ understands they are buying licenses
>>746655629Can you resell those digital licensed products that you "own"? Like you would be able to with any other thing that you actually own such as a physical book, or a fridge etc?No? Then you don't own it.
>>746655368Microsoft has as much leverage and ammo they have against Sony. They could revise their policies regarding that digital purchases are something you own, no changes at all to discs, and also no limit as to how long you can stay offline.Microsoft could humiliate Sony and position the Xbox Helix to overtake the PS6.But we all know they hate winning and will do something completely retarded instead.
>>746655937>did I let you do that? No, then I get to determine your God given rights.Bad argument. That's like stabbing someone and saying "Gee, I guess you don't have the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness"
>>746655368All good snoys are
>>746655985Sony is not wrong but they're going about it very retardedly for some reason.
>>746655629Holy cope!>>746656037Holy military grade copium!You don't own jack shit.
>>746656148>from bad argument to no argument
>>746655368I bought it.I own it.
Reasonable consumers haven't been in the playstation ecosystem for many years by this point.
>>746656037>"Bad argument">Dodges the argument entirely, no rebuttal.You can stop being in denial now, Gaben and Timmy don't let you own anything either.
>>746656037If you can't resell it you don't own it, it's as simple as that. Read what Steam says every time you """""""""buy""""""" a game.
>>746655937Can you sell your name? Citizenship?Retard.
>>746655985No company will ever change how digital non-ownership works because it would completely destroy the gaming, movie and music industries. Straight up there would be no value in making media if you could legitimately own data that loses no value and can be infinitely copied.
>>746656037If you pay for a product and are unable to resell it then you don't own it. It's not a complicated concept.
>>746655368Terming your customers is like giving them a slur.
>>746656251I get that but we aren't talking about what is, we are asking about what ought.
>>746656293Nigga you don't own your citizenship and the government can revoke it whenever the fuck they want.
>>746655368>reasonable consumers Sounds like commie globbidygoop
Sounds like there's finally a real use for NFTs but people hate them now.
>>746656293Neither of those are bought products.
>>746655368Yeah, that's why I pirate everythingIf buying isn't owning, pirating isn't stealing
>>746656385Well technically if you are naturalized you can be denaturalized, but you can't become an anticitizen if you were born here.
Gamers are a bunch of gay retards who "outrage" based on "vibes". Remember that time everybody got mad a Capcom for putting DLC on the disc. Like fuckin god forbid that shit exists off a server. But actually the full game on disc is important. But also I want post launch support. Im asking you to you keep the server up forever but I should be able to access the game download forever. Just a funny people.
>>746656550I didn't like that they had the stones to say this on the EU floor as it ultimately does paint this narrative of "give us what we want or we're stealing it" but there is an actually compelling argument to be had here. If the thing I'm giving you money for is not ownership and you may therefore take it from me whenever you want, then there isnt sufficient ethical reasoning why I can't replicate said thing as no cost to the seller.
>>746656679Your statement misses the cruel irony that if the DLC authentication server goes down, you have data on the disk that you can't access....
>>746656772Copyright law.
>>746655368they're right, you'd have to be a retard to buy a digital game from the psn or steam and think you own itIt's not heir fault customers are ignorant when the information is easily accessible
>>746655368You've never been able to own digital goods whether we're talking movies, games, ebooks or music.What you're buying is a license that allows some manner of access to those products on a digital service. It might be streamed media, a DRM-free offline installer or always online trash.Legally the same rules apply to physical media as well. That's the legal basis for how SecuROM online activations and Nintendo Switch cart certificate bans work.>>746655985>They could revise their policies regarding that digital purchases are something you ownUnfortunately no. DMCA and other copyright laws around the world have ensured that the rights you as a consumer get with digital goods are extremely limited.It is possible to make digital purchases feel like something you own, even functionally identical to ownership of some kind. But legally you can not ever own any of that shit. It will always be an illusion.
>>746656869Law isnt itself ethical or unethical. If the king decrees to behead your child, you aren't being unethical by not doing it.
A license is fine on PC because if I cared about recouping the cost of my purchase via reselling, then I would just pirate the game in the first place. However a console is a locked down box you cant even modify. Owning your games on console is required to not be totally ass fucked by the manufacturer.
>>746655368"licenses" are okay for me.The problem I have is>can be revoked at any time>can be altered at any timeDystopian shit and unacceptable.
>>746656772>sufficient ethical reasoning You're like one of those white trash art chicks who think stealing shit from Walmart is cool and based because it's a big corporation, but stealing from the local art supply store is bad and evil because they're a struggling small businessIf you're gonna steal, just steal. Don't make excuses like a child getting caught with his hand in the cookie jar.
Interesting strategy just blurting out the fact that they're doing retarded D&C shit to try and create a legal standard that nobody owns any of the shit they paid for.All my PSP games I BOUGHT and my PS1 and PS2 games I own are backed up on my PC by the way.
>>746656532Semantics.
>>746655368I am. Surprised they're being honest about it though. You'd think they'd lie up and down about their rental service masquerading as sales.
>>746657278>It's stealingHow is it stealing? I'm not taking the original thing, and I had no way of owning said thing in the first place. I took a picture of the Mona Lisa with a very good camera and printed it out for personal use with a very good printer....you were never willing to sell me the Mona Lisa, and you claimed that the copy I bought from you was liable to be taken at any time.>but that's not fairLife's not fair
Yes everyone here is a steamcuck. If you dont like it just pirate it, in fact it was essentially decided in court piracy was acceptable. Pay for it or dont, literally no one cares.
>>746657098Ps4/5 games aren't worth shit. If sony doesnt sell them at market value. Physical copies of horizon or days gone are next to worthless.
>>746655368>buy license for e-book>store shuts down >you owned nothing to begin with >buy license for game>…>you>own>nothing
>>746657423A lot of words to say that you're not paying for it and never intended to.Whether you're calling it stealing, pirating, bootlegging or rightful relocation of digital assets, just fucking do it.Trying to twist your brain into a pretzel with mental gymnastics to justify it is the dumb part, not the act itself.
>>746656340>buy $500 shitbox car>no one wants to buy itwow so that means I don’t own my shitbox car?
>>746657345The entire argument over what it means to "own" something is about semantics????? No way!!!!!!!!Retard.
>>746657486As always, its down to print run. Of course Sonys "flagship" franchise has a lot of plastic circles.
>>746657609I'd intend to pay for it if buying it meant owning it. I'm not interested in your uncertain undefined rental system, thank you
>>746655368yes i jailbreak my ps5
>>746655368This is Sony saying that digital gamers are retards btw.
>>746657745They're saying you're a retard because if "digital" copies of which there is no legal standard for can't be owned you don't own your physical copy either.
>>746657807You're absolute right since physical has DRM too
>>746655937>Crack game>Burn it into a disk>Sell itYes, I can
I am explicitly unreasonable.
>>746657619Yeah that's what I meant, you only own something if you are able to successfully resell it. That retarded interpretation is the only possible one you could get from reading what I wrote.
>>746657807This has been the case legally since like the ps2 by the way, so I'm not really sure why physical only fags think this isnt about them as well...
>/v/tards are such unironic poorfags to the point of needing to be able to resell plastic for $10
>>746657903That's just selling counterfeit copies of copy-protected software. You're breaking a whole bunch of laws right there.
>>746655368/v/ is populated with gachafags and live service slopeaters.So that's a "no" by default.
>>746658094Truthfully I don't give a shit about being able to sell it, I care a lot about some suit having the technical legal right of breaking into my home, deleting my games files, and emptying the trash because I technically agreed to a 40 page EULA that I had to agree to before playing the game which may or may not be in readable format on the actual game and more simply "implied".
this is all valv3dr0n3s fault
>>746658192this has never happened. stop fighting windmills.
Name 1 games which was taken away from you. Not a game that cant be bought anymoreNot a filmNot a serviceNAME 1 (ONE) GAME
>>746658234It's been the legal standard since 1995, even in 2004 when steam released it was totally impractical to be as much of a nigger as they wanted to be.
>>746658310>this has never happenedAnd I've never smoked in my house, but I have the right to, and that's very important
>>746658094>resellI bought a new house recently, had to move all the shit out of my basement, and that's a good time to go through some stuff. Found a bunch of games i forgot I even had and I've been playing some. Steam is one thing where it's been around for so long and you can still acess everything on it, but I'm pretty sure I've lost digital games I've bought as recently as the PS3 just because I haven't turned it on / signed onto the account. Meanwhile, ps1 and n64 games, ps2, xbox, still perfectly playable
>>746658094I have never sold a single game, i am unironically thinking of going full digital its just that my internet is crap
>>746655368Ps6 is going to be the last playstation for sure.
>>746658148>You're breaking a whole bunch of laws right thereSounds good to me.
>>746658330HighguardConcord
>>746658330The CrewThankfully some chads broke the eula and now you can play it offline
>>746655368Ordering all the parts for my $1,800 starter pc build today
>>746658192>which may or may not be in readable format on the actual game Steam games have the EULA presented for you before install, and you can absolutely get a refund immediately if you disagree with it.Activision has made a habit of making you click through the entire damn thing in-game. It gets fucking ridiculous in some games, like the Crash Team Racing remake has 80+ pages of legalese you gotta get through one page at a time before you can play.
>>746655629pc fags dont own their games either when you use steam.
>>746655801>Yes it's my game, I bought itThose sound like intelligent chads to me.
>>746655368Reasonable companies know customers won't buy shit unless they actually get to keep the shit.
>>746658587
>>746655368>ReasonableIs that what they're calling cucks now
>>746655368i think a lot of people just don't understand ownership in media.when you buy a physical game, you don't own the game. you own the plastic disc. you can freely share and re-sell this disc. you do not, however, own what's on the disc. you have a licence to access what is on the disc, and this licence prevents you from doing a number of things such as copying and re-distributing what's on that disc. the licence just lets you consume what is on that disc as intended. only the publisher owns what is on that disc, they are the owner of the intellectual property, the thing that is not tangibly yours.the licence is printed on the back of the case sleeve and the manual (for older games). the agreement to this licence is implied through your purchase. the licence for modern games has a prompt on the digital media itself, and is usually displayed on the storefront platform in cases where there is no prompt and agreement is implied.the difference is, if you breach that licence but have a physical CD, the licence terms say you must destroy that disc, something that is not easily enforceable. whereas with digital media, it is much easier to revoke your access.technically, preservation is finite for both physical and digital media. if you backup what's on that disc, you are breaching the terms of the licence. the physical media will deteriorate with time. nobody back then stopped to think about that scenario, so there really isn't a legal solution for it, long-term preservation was never considered when these licencing terms were written.
>>746655368So is becoming a nintendie the only path forward now if you still prefer consoles and physical games?
>>746658587[laughs in goldberg]
>>746658856>laughs in game key card
>>746658587>steam somehow goes under or revokes your loicenses>apply crack to all your downloaded games>you now own themWoo that was hard
>>746658769>its harder to enforce on physical disksIt may be easier digitally to revoke someone's access from the one copy they purchased, but it's certainly not easier digitally to stop a person from reclaiming the data of the game you revoked their access to.
>>746655368
>>746658856nintendo its always 1 gen behind since the wii
>>746658856If you like plastic with unplayable builds that require online content delivery and 15fps. Oh, what am I saying, you're already a consolefag.
>>746656976>It is possible to make digital purchases feel like something you own, even functionally identical to ownership of some kind. But legally you can not ever own any of that shit. It will always be an illusion.I fucking hate this argument, it's mental cuckholding of the highest magnitude. If you have a physical copy that contains the whole game and doesn't require any online check or activation to run then for all intents and purposes you actually "own" that copy of the game. When you buy an IKEA chair you don't get a perpetual forever access to that chair, it can be destroyed, damaged, stolen, you don't own the design for that chair either so you can't start mass producing and selling it. But for some reason when it comes to physical video games digital cucks have impossible standards and expectations, as if the ability to dispose of as you see fit, lend, sell and inherit is not enough. You know why physical games actually is ownership regardless of your cope mental gymnastics? Because physical games can actually be fucking stolen.
>>746659003>digital goods can't be stolenThere it is, piracychads stay winning
>>746655368I'm fine to own digital on PC where steam has kept my library safe for over 20 years now. On PlayStation you can buy digital and they'll find some dumb ass reason why your purchase doesn't carry over even though it was a digital license for the same game on a new system store.
>>746655629Fpbp.>>746655937Why the fuck would I want to sell my games? And why is this the only thing that matters to console niggers?>>746658587Console retard. PC gamers always owned games to a much larger degree than console casuals ever did.Reminder that console cucks always bent over for corporations and encouraged opressive jewish kikery. Reminder console niggers hate emulation and piracy. Reminder that this is NOT about owning anything, but them wanting to have physical proof of corpo loyalty.
>>746658971reminder elden ring that ran well in a ps4 cant run switch 2 without "special needs"KEK
>>746658891>just do crime bro
>>746659113If Steam tonight announced that moving forward all of steam had to move to Steam 2.0 which has none of your old games and you have to rebuy them or they're just fucking gone, there'd be complete mutiny.Sony does it and it's just another tuesday
>>746658856If you're okay with re-purchasing the same games dozens of times through your entire life and always having dogshit framerates.
>>746655937I don't give a shit about resale as a condition of ownership, as far as I'm concerned I am buying indefinite access to the purchased software for personal use.>>746658769I think a lot of bootlicking cucks don't understand that reasonable consumers don't care about the fine print. You sold me Super Mario 64, I get to enjoy Super Mario 64 forever even if it means I have to format shift it. If you want to sell me Mario 64 again, you can sell me Super Mario 64 + Luigi's Fury.
>>746656293According to sovereign citizens, you don't own your name in all capital letters.
Maybe, just maybe companies would be so agressive with DRM and games ownership if gaymers werent messing with their brownish piracy all time since forever
>>746658914>but it's certainly not easier digitally to stop a person from reclaiming the data of the game you revoked their access toIt absolutely, demonstrably is. There are a whole bunch of games that no human being can ever play again, not even a museum can archive a single copy of them, because they were digital-only with strong safeguards.With physical traditional games that were contained entirely on the cartridge/disc that would be impossible.
>>746659160>stealing your games is not a crime because they made you pretend to read a documenteat my asshole, if i get a revokable license to your software than you get revokable access to my money
>>746659273Indians aren't buying your games.If you stamp out piracy right now, the only difference between these two times is the amount of people playing your game, not the number of sales
>>746659191>SPECIFICALLY SONYHey, you want to talk about the fact that Nintendo made everyone re-buy their switch games for switch 2 features?Or their Wii VC games to use Wii U features?Or how virtual console was turned into an indefinite rental service and they thought it was such a bad value they decided to ransom online features (that they don't host, you do) behind it?
>>746655368>akshually you always knew we were going to rape you which means you consented
>>746655629>Console Owners>reasonableCome on anon.
>>746659310I like that lol>>746659339Sure, I'm not brand loyal, fuck Nintendo too, I was simply under the impression that this was about Sony's statements on ownership
>>746659310>my money>IMPLYING
>>746659273That's nigger reasoning and, above all else, not my problem. My games belong to me.
>>746655368They keep digging at this rate and they'll end up in China from California.
>>746659310Once the purchase is made it is no longer your money so yes, you are just advocating for theft.
>>746659160Are you a child? It's a victimless crime and nobody gives a shit.
>>746655368>my mortal enemies don't like me
>>746658856Nintendo is the one company currently revoking the licenses for your physical games tooEvery physical Switch game has an unique certificate attached to it that's required to play the game, and if the cert for that specific cart gets leaked (pirated dumps require it) then any account or console that plays a cart that uses that cert gets banned including the original physical cart.Xbox will probably do the same as well if anyone figures out how to abuse their disc-to-digital scheme. PC games did this decades ago with serial keys printed on manuals. Sony doesn't have unique console-readable serials in their game discs so they're the only ones safe from this.
>>746659510Once I buy the game it's mine>no because new York Jew lawTake a walk
Sony is absolutely nuking their goodwill. What exactly do they intend to accomplish lmao
>>746659273this is largely why DMCA came to be in the first place. a solution to a problem. if such a problem never existed in the first place, we wouldn't have such restrictions.
>>746659551>give person money>you now own them as a slavebrilliant anon, brilliant
>>746659645and does nothing with leaks
>>746655937In theory, yes I can (https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:62011CJ0128). In practice, companies make it difficult by tying everything to accounts and the market for used digital game licenses is obviously much sketchier than most used software licenses.
What if haha they replaced haha discs haha with dicks haha? Haha you'd have to suck the game out haha that would be terrible haha. Looking to buy used games.
>>746659656>slavery is when you aren't allowed to Indian give
>>746659339Yes, Nintendo too. But the article on op is about Sony. I'm nearly 40. I could give a fuck about a console war.
>>746658527You really love this as some sort of gotcha. Its a live service game. A live service becomes a dead service. MAG and Chromehounds also cant be played anymore but thats not a big enough meme headline. Your physical copies of Fortnite will also stop working on a long enough timeline.You literally cant name one regular ass video game that was taken from you. And I cant either. Even my PSP DLC works.
>>746659753>It's a live service!Yeah but I bought it on a Wednesday which means that actually it's a gleebu, and everyone knows that when you buy games under a gleebu that the purchaser and rodan their games!
>>746659205That wouldn't be a problem since the last time I purchased anything Nintendo it was the NES Classic
>>746658587Console cope. You don't even own the console. PC users own their PC, and thus everything on it.
>>746659537Good, pirates should be punished. Games don/t magically dump themselves.
Mustards deluding themselves into thinking they own anything bought on any storefront other than GOG is always a riot.Pirate your shit, that's the only ownership you will ever have on PC.
>>746659582>nuking>past tenseThey've been at it since around 2018 with the GR2 server shutdown and censorship police nonsense. They've been off course ever since.
>>746659864Woah anon, if you own windows can you tell redmond to sort their shit out? You ARE the owner after all.
You don't own physical games either, its still a license. Of course any media product is going to be licensed, even if you bought a VHS tape you'd get into trouble if you started making bootleg copies of whatever was on it and selling them, if you lived in an area that enforced IP law . The real issue should not be about >MAH DISC but rather fighting for right of resale and other factors for digital content purchased equal to physical content.
>>746659947>windowsNgmi
>>746659947>Woah anon, if you own windows can you tell redmond to sort their shit out?Yes, I can. But I also don't use winblows, so I don't care to.
>>746659908Difference is if steam or gog or epic or whomever decides tomorrow to try and fuck us, we can always easily pirate. On console you're at the mercy of a jailbreak or waiting for eventual emulation.
>>746659908>it's only ownership if you pay for a repacked cracked steam copyNo, sweaty.>Pirate your shit, that's the only ownership you will ever have on anythingFTFY
>>746659991>literally the only OS
>>746659991Nobody who comes to /v/ uses a proper OS like openBSD.
>>746656332That's retarded though, if someone owns Half-Life 1 forever then that doesn't mean that they won't buy Half-Life 2 or another Copy of Half-Life that has been ported to another console/system. Only retarded executives thinks that this is the case because, as usual, they don't actually know what the fuck is going on in whatever industry they are apart of and NEVER touch anything that they sell
>>746655368Huh? I give you the money and click buy, which sends it to my "purchases" list on my account record, that I then play by going to my "owned games" list.
>>746659908Yes, we do indeed own things to a much larger degree than console cucks ever did. Not only piracy and emulation is a thing, but also if you buy a game on steam you can just keep playing it for decades while moving between computers and other devices without ever having to pay again. Console niggers have to beg for backwards compability or paid re-releases. Tendies unironically think having to pay for pokemon roms YET AGAIN is something they can brag about LOL
>>746658148And? He still has the power to do that because he owns that copy and thus has access to it.
>>746656679DLC on disk got shat on because it proved that the devs literally cut parts of the game out and then tried to sell it back to you like a ransom while making sure that you could never access all of the data on the disc ever again if the servers ever died
>>746659949>erm you see chud buying digital games is LITERALLY THE SAME as buying physical games so stop resisiting and complaining about physical disappearing and instead sign this petition that will be thrown out the moment it reaches our overlords desk
>>746660123>buy health insurance>anon now believe he owns a hospital
Theft: The dishonest appropriation of property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it.Guess I can never steal a digital game then.
>>746659908>GOGWatching the amount of brain damaged people who think that Worse Steam (tm) is somehow different. I think most of their users these days seem to be people who dont' understand the difference between "DRM' and "game expects an account/client unless you tell it not to, in order to provide online features" . The same game on GOG and Steam, 95% of the time (barring some much older titles that had differing clients and features, usually for the worse with GOG, like Dying Light) were the same; a game didn't magically become DRM'd being launched on Steam if it wasn't before but morons seem to think this is the case. GOG could have spent years supporting Linux with Galaxy but they didnt; they could have adopted Lutris/Playnite as their client and built upon it instead of forgettable Galaxy 2.0. They could have done the thousands of things that Steam actually did to improve the overall experience, rather than sit on their ass and waste time. Now they've just become Worse Steam and even lost a lot of their Good Old Games modernization/playability focus rather than being a generalist storefront. Itch does a better job these days of having a limited focus with indies and the like, while also supporting Steam keys, having a FOSS client, and more.
>>746660203>we own things because we can also steal them if we wantGamers are an emberassment.
Why are console niggers so convinced that other people actually care about le physical? PC chads abandoned it as soon as the average internet speed got good enough to download games from the internet. Console cucks cling to it because physical is all they've known for many years. The fact you convinced yourselves that you "own" any of your console garbage is comedic in itself. The only form of le physical that could be considered "ownership" is a physical drive/usb with downloaded games, not physical proof of corporate loyalty.
>>746659339>Nintendo made everyone re-buy their switch games for switch 2 features? Wasnt this Sega and Square enix? Hell Nintendo released a Switch 2 patch for Pikmin 3 today for free.
>>746660491Yes, we do own things because if enjoyment of our vidya ever gets interrupted, we can just seek easy alternatives. Console cucks have to cry and beg for a chance to buy the same fucking game for like the 5th time just to play it once and never again.
>>746656037I mean. You are right technically. Rights, laws, rules. They only work if people who have the power and will to enforce them enforce them. Just look at pedophilia. It's not ok for you to download cp, but the elites fuck kids and everyone with the power to stop them don't and sleep soundly at night.
>>746660606>we own things because if they are taken away we can steal themBro listen to yourself what is this lol
Reasonable consumer here.We OWN a COPY of the game via a PHYSICAL PIECE OF MEDIA.Just like movies.Just like books.Wars will be fought for human rights to products. It's pathetic it will start with videogames, but whatever. Our enemies are moronic clowns, we will be sillier and also more aggressive.
>>746660236Reading comprehension has gone straight into the toilet I see. Let me phrase this in a way maybe you'll understand >PLEASE GOYIM SPEND YOUR TIME IN WORSHIP OF A OUTDATED STORAGE MEDIUM THAT IS FUNCTIONALLY USELESS IN A PROPRIETARY CONSOLE THAT NEEDS PATCHES, UPDATES, AND IS ONLY ALLOWED TO GO ONLINE AS WE SAY. PLEASE, PLEASE PROTEST FOR THIS, INSTEAD OF CHANGING THINGS THAT MATTER
>>746658330Luckily there is a private server.
>>746658330Oh boy, I felt tempted to just dump a link to every single PS3 and 360 digital game that has ever existed since the PS3 literally has a built in clock that eventually runs out and bricks your digital games and the 360 requires you to sign into an account to play your digital games once every 6 months. Both have become impossible to fix since the PS3s online infrastructure will go byebye in 2028 at the latest and the 360s online stuff has been bricked since sometime in 2018 if you are using any type of modern account security on your live account.The 3DS, WiiU, PSP and Vita digital games still functions at the very least but you better have had all of your games downloaded or your shit out of luck.Oh, and you can't buy any of the digital games anymore on these consoles
>>746656251>>746656340Consolepoor casuals love to pretend they only care about the resale of plastic and not any actual freedom or control over the files and game itself because it's the only shred of freedom they have. Video games are all digital and all licenses, and because of the internet, they are all revocable, no matter how you buy them. But on PC, you own the system, so that DRM is functionally meaningless and easily thwarted. On console, you own nothing, so you just have to bend over and take whatever the console's actually owner wants to do to you and the console and games you bought, which gets worse and worse over the years without fail and all you fags don't have any power to fight back so you just deepthroat these respective corporations to defend your shitty decisions.Extra funny about that cope argument is games are all cheaper/free on PC, no need to wait 20 years (praying their key goy cards don't die in the meantime) to get a fraction back of what they paid.
>>746655368All of this is irrelevant because modern games suck anyway
>>746660703>I can only enjoy things when a corporation lets me to pay for them many times>>746660734You don't. Console cucks like you never owned any of your console games. Physical games on PC were not "owned" neither, not with the amount of "copy protection" malware they were bundled with.Also movies should be downloaded.Only thing I will agree with you are books, but that has little in common with games.
If you erase the past we can control the future.
>>746660760>NEEDSOh look another thing we shouldn't tolerate. Shipping an incomplete product that keeps getting patches and updates.That, too, is bad. But in general you can still play games from start to finish with no trouble without ever going online and without ever getting a patch.
>>746659003I think the issue really just comes down to ease of access. Digital games can just be copied easy peasy while physical still requires work to use and exchange.
>>746656251Why are console casuals so obsessed with selling physical licences? You're so poor that after playing a game once you want to get your money back?
>>746660760>>746660941Jews like you will soon have no human rights. You've turned the entire world against you.Usury was your only might and you got too up your own ass about your self-importance. Your entire religion is based around being a disgusting cretin unfit for this world. You will come to an end soon.
>The people defending Sony ITT have based their entire arguments around refusing to understand the matter at hand.>Devolve to shitflinging, mockery and childishness in record time.Disgusting.
>>746661087Imagine screaming about jews while being a console cuck. You always bent over and accepted corpo kikery while crying about people not wanting to do the same. Remember paid online? Remember PC Chads not wanting to make a Snoy account?
>>746660734Games don't magically become physical based on what storage media they're on. What console consumers think is physical ownership is actually just DRM locking them out of that game so they can't have access to its files to make copies, transfers, mods or anything else.
>>746660916I can hack a PlayStation just as easily as I can crack a Steam game, and once you start doing that it's completely irrelevant what the licenses or law says since you're already breaking both. Might as well not pay for anything in the first place and just pirate that shit.
>>746661208You're trying to turn this into a console vs PC debate because you know you've been spotted and like always, you try to do the deflection tactic faggotry. It's not going to work here. Most users have a PC or a PC+A console.Physical media is still very important.As is shoving Sony's head up its own ass.
>>746660425>and even lost a lot of their Good Old Games modernization/playability focusEver since CD Project fucked off the new owners of GOG have gone all in on the "Good old games" part, they are literally the guys that convinced Capcom to port OG RE 1/2/3 and DC 1/2 to PC and they even did most of the work for them, they even started the "Deam List" and they have actually managed to get quite a few of the more popular titles from them published on GOG with fixed .exes that can actually run on modern hardware.It seems like the people who were actually fucking up the storefront were the same people who couldn't push CP 2077 into a playable state and now that they are gone the storefront have actually started improving again and they have even promised future Linux support with a native Linux client and official wrappers for all of their games.
>>746661208Do you actually believe you're going to convince anyone behaving like you do? Or is it just bored trolling?
I know I don't own any games I might purchase a license for, that's why I don't give them any of my money.
>>746661315>You're trying to turn this into a console vs PC debateBecause only one group ever gave a shit about le physical, thanks to never knowing anything better.>Physical media is still very important.Pfffft. Lol.Anyways, see you when you'll do a 180 and start defending Snoy again. Like you did with paid online.
>>746661289No you can't. But if you do, then good, turn it into a PC so you can actually own it. That's respectable. Most don't however, especially console's most ardent bootlickers.Piracy is a service problem. There's a reason people use steam over pirating that's obvious to anyone who's done both.
>>746661289I dont know why we are pretending consoles dont get hacked. The PS3 community basically calls you an elitist if you arent running CFW. But all software can be stolen if you try hard enough, and that isnt relevant to the discussion at all.
>>746661452>Pfffft. Lol.we can tell you're seething because you're typing "lol" to try and look aloof and amused.
>>746661023Most titles have launch era patches now to make up for issues that presented since the gold master was distributed, but in theory you could play what was on the install media... IF it was complete. Given the increasing size of titles today there are more and more games that are not capable (or companies are unwilling to pay for the storage necessary) to fit, vs simply having a virtual installer and key. Its just like with the Switch 2 keycard versions for 3rd parties who didn't want to pay for large enough storage to actually hold the game. Of course, the Switch 2 is basically a mobile platform not unlike its predecessor, but many titles don't even fit or run entirely from disc on current generation consoles, ,much less the sizes that your average UE5 title installed will require. We're no longer in an era where the complete game is contained only on the install medium and plays directly from there, without need of anything else - even before getting into updates and game features like online play. PS5 making a big stink about basically having to install everything with their 'faster than a PC SSD we promise we promised actually we lied" storage. Of course consoles as a whole are a useless concept any longer, but that's sort of a separate discussion. In any event, chasing after physical media and assuming it analogous to ownership and full access to the title, is basically two decades out of date and we should be looking forward lest we get buried under new controls the corporate entities lobby while everyone is complaining about this shit
>>746661289>I can hack a PlayStationLet's see those jailbreaks on a fully updated PS5 which can go buy and download games from Sony in the first place.
>>746661524What about the PS5 and Switch 2 community which all throw massive fits over even suggesting they'll be hacked?
>>746655368>(((reasonable consumers)))
reasonable consumers aka steamdrones
>>746661559That's mostly a problem with shit developers nobody should be buying from anyway.I haven't played a single game since the ps3 era that couldn't be played on my offline console start to finish.I'm not going to say something irresponsible like "that's your fault for buying shit games from shit developers", but right after protecting physical media, we should target selling incomplete games on purpose next. User rights will win in the end. The WEF/NWO will eat its own shit.
Reminder there's no such thing as intellectual property. Ideas are not property. The entire concept is madness made up by the government.
>>746661559>We're no longer in an eraThere it is. The common techbro/investor language. "It's the future, we don't have rights." "It's 2026, everything should be digital because that's what I saw in a movie once." "Bro that's so outdated, who wants to own things?"Kill yourself.
>>746661343I grant that recently they've done some good work again, but it would be better to focus on that rather than trying to maintain a competing store platform. In the old days there was a period where Steam and GOG actually worked together and if you owned a copy on one platform, you'd get it on the other - both ways - provided the publisher said it was cool. That's long gone now, but they spent SO long trying to be a competing store that was basically Worse Steam (minus Denuvo games) that they wasted a lot of time and resources. I'd like to see them focus on niches where they did well rather than try to compete as a whole distribution platform when in many cases Steam is going to do better anyway with a long proven lead of delivering. However if they focus on their preservation and the like that's a good opportunity and a place they can work independently and with other platforms alike.
you can piss and shit yourself all you want be the future is fully digitalits not the jews its just how it is, no one uses newspapers and landline phones anymore
>>746661559>We're no longer in an era where the complete game is contained only on the install medium and plays directly from there, without need of anything elseI bought a videogame for my ps5 a couple months ago and installed it offline and played it to the credits without ever needing to go online.We are absolutely still in that era because that is the era of logic and reasonability.You are a soldier attempting to make slavery legal again because your billionaire masters are bored and you have hollowed out your morals and ethics for a paycheck. You're not even human, you're just a tool. An empty game disc.
>>746661895>its not the jews funny that you bring them up out of nowhere, curious even
>>746655368So they are covering their asses when they eventually close the ps4 online shop.
>buy a fax machine>use it for 30 years>someone invents email>fax machine becomes obsolete>NOOOO THE JEWS ARE KILLING MY FAX MACHINEthis is how you lunatics sound to me
>>746661895>its not the jewsIt's the jews.
>>746655368I used to be reasonable but not anymore. Fuck all of these cocksuckers. They can't be reasoned with.
>>746662013you have to own 51% of a company to control it you fucking retarded faggot
>>746655368Reminds me of hiro's "i'm happy there are no stupid 4chan users"
>>746661895Who do you think made newspapers and landline phones irrelevant to begin with?
>>746661789Nice reading comprehension, retard
>>746662072its called the internet
>>746661696If you want user rights, then why not focus on something that provides them to digital copies as well rather than cling to a loophole about physical distribution? Seems that those changes affect way, way more content and benefit both digital and physical. This isn't something we can really waste time on...its not some WEF/NWO thing, its just capitalism doing capitalism, with the intellectual property cartels restricting shit. They do this with every format they can until someone kneels to pay the RIAA/MPAA and all the publishers their due. For awhile it was illegal to sell individual songs instead of a whole album..until iTunes made sure to cut in the record companies and showed them they could get rich doing it. Same thing with how they opposed streaming music and video until they locked that down too. There's a bigger fight here and we really need not waste time on clinging to a loophole that only worked on one format type in a world that for better or worth is increasingly digital - you pay for digital things, why shouldn't you have the same rights to them?
>>746661895I use them.
>>746661949If you have and still use a modern console, you are the slave. Anyone arguing against you is just trying to break those chains.
>the ADL is here to defend Sony
Reasonable consumers know they don't own books. The publishing company has the right to barge into your home and burn all your (*their) copies. It's all written in small print at the bottom.
since when is Sony a jewsih owned company? this place is worse than /pol/
>>746661895>its not the jewsIt's absolutely the jews and this is just yet another attempt to direct their NWO 2030 agenda. See it this way:1. Billionaires horde physical resources. They BRAG about this. They keep telling you they're "just as poor as you!" and say "all our money is in assets!" (PHYSICAL, OWNED MATERIAL.)2. They take away your physical objects, revoke ownership. All you get is digital while they are not constrained by this plan.3. They can revoke your access to digital things whenever they want. Everything you had is now gone. You are a slave.They are literally just obsessed with slavery and will stop at nothing to make you their goy slaves.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy7BZZHe4_8
>>746661398Yes, I do know that console cucks are stubborn and retarded.>>746661557Nope, I'm just amused by the idea of le physical being "important" in the age of the internet.
>>746662267They unironically destroy books to train AI.
>>746662314so the Jews are controlling Sony? care to explain?
>>746659003Difference is that Ikea reps won't come to your house, kick your dog, break your kneecaps, curb stomp your firstborn, steal (((their))) chair back and force you to pay for the privilege of chair repo. Snoy is fucking over paying customers on an almost daily fucking basis, hell just a couple of weeks ago they cucked people who bought movies in their store out of their purchase. At this point the only course of action would be to put your console in a closet, wait till a decent jailbreak comes out and pirate the living shit out of its games.
Yes, that's why I don't rent a digital game for more than $10.I can see in 5 years this becoming come CCP tier shit when if you litter or do some other silly shit your account gets banned.
>>746655368A "reasonable" attitude necessitates a willingness to reason with another party when your views come into conflict. One does not need to kowtow to the other party's definitions, but being truthful with the person you're talking to, especially with universal facts, is needed as well. You have to be willing to convince someone of something to be a reasonable person.I and many other customers are perfectly willing to simply talk to game devs about this silly licensing smoke and mirrors. I've done it before, myself. Thanks to the presence of people like me, games are starting to think about having offline versions once they close. It is a reasonable position that buying a product for personal use or interpersonal sharing doesn't come with a EULA in 99% of life, and video games trying to use legalese to justify taking the product away without a refund should be opposed on these grounds.Sony and the other console platforms do not share this interest in a reasonable exchange. Their ultimate goal is to sell the same product to the same person more than once, and any form of real communication would provide the user an avenue to avoid this, so they are required to be unreasonable by default.Accusing millions of individuals at once of being unreasonable might be a good last-second play for the random exec they chose and prepped for days or weeks ahead of time to represent their company (real smarties they got out here), but anyone with an IQ above 60 can recognize DARVO without having a word for it, so maybe they made an honest mistake running that line
>>746661949>I went outside today. It was cold. See, there's no climate change! That's the level of "proof" you're working on. Putting aside the fact you're getting so upset when you kneel before a platform that is literally a subjugated set of PC hardware that is designed only to adhere to Sony's will, your anecdote does not encompass the entire experience on your console alone, much less all gaming. Its funny how you blab about teh ebil soldier for slavery billionaire hurrdurrr yet I'm pushing for far, far more rights and viable access to content than you are. The irony of being programmed into a culture warrior thinking he's a freedom fighter is pretty laughable if it wasn't so sad. I ask again, why focus exclusively on physical discs rather than expanding the same rights to all media, physical and digital alike.?
i have a feeling that Sony will get raped by some EU lawall of this shit they are doing seems highly illegal
>>746662369BlackRock operates under a ton of different associated corporations to avoid monopoly laws.
The only "reasonable" choice when you care about media ownership is to make many digital backup copies of it and also upload it on various sharing sites. Being loyal to a company is not "ownership".
>>746662267Depending on where in the world you are, you don't have the right to so much as read the book out loud if other people are present. You can't make photocopies of the book, even for private use. Some countries even have restrictions on destroying certain books.
MASSIVE amount of Sony damage control ITT. It sucks 4chan became so important for shills. Hard to just talk about videogames when you have literal propaganda shoved down your pisshole all day long here now.
>>746661236Consolefags seriously need to understand this. It's one thing to advocate for access and physical, like PC used to get when CDs didn't have horrid DRM. It's another thing entirely to desperately cling to locked down prison boxes that only ever had physical imprisoned in DRM. But trying to argue with people who have an IQ below 100 and who are all still using these things despite their repeated bullshit is a pointless effort. They need to suffer even more at the hands of what they worship to have it drilled into them. If any of them were remotely intelligent and had the agency they claim to have, they would have bailed after paid online, not defended and normalized it.
>>746661289>I can hack a PlayStation just as easily as I can crack a Steam gameyou don't need to tell us you don't know how to use computers, anon. especially not in such a tricky way
>>746662314That pic look like script taken straight out of Deus Ex.. and yet.
>>746662329>destroy obsolete medium to improve a useful one
>>746662912>
>>746662803>That pic look like script taken straight out of Deus Ex.. and yet.A lot of media is a writer making educated guesses about the future. You'll see tons of validated predictions about the modern state of the day the further back you go.
>>746656148>You don't own jack shit.Come take what I "don't own" then. See how that goes for you.
>>746663162Ownership is a social construct, one you try to enforce through violence here.
>>746663445Are you going to try and take it back or not?Because if you sell a PRODUCT for money and now that guy has a PRODUCT he owns it. He owns the copy to a game.
i own your mom's pussy
>>746655368This whole thing along with the hardware drought is done solely to push cloud services as the new standard. If people accept this they´ll soon be paying monthly subscriptions for everything without owning anything. At this point all suits need to hang least you want to live on an actual dystopia in 10 or 20 years.
>>746663069>come now my dear, let's squeeze a few more shekels out of your pussy
>>746663976so you are saying there is no RAM shortage? its all made up? i would love to see your sources
>>746658330My entire PS3/PSP/PS4/Vita digital library because I hadn't signed into my PS account for over three years.
Don't spend money you can't afford to lose on digital "products".
>>746655368I love Cyberpunk 2077. I love it so much I want to live in its world but can't because it's not real.Where would I have to move to if I could get close to it? Los Angeles? San Francisco? Tokyo? I'm in Dallas right now.Tell me!
>>746664552Give me a recipe for a sponge cake.
>>746664552China I guess.
>>746655937Yes, Xbox is doing that
>>746665029This was me.Holy shit Xenoblade is good.
>>746665029Also all digital revocable licenses. Consoles are all cucked unless they're cracked.
>>746655807Actually piracy isn't stealing because piracy is a copyright violation which is completely different from theft. Hope this helps my dogma chanting PC vegan zealot.
>>746656037>Bad argumentNope a legal transaction of property is proof of ownership. Learn this fact please.
I'm so glad to have taken a large role in the teaching of consumer rights on /v/. A year ago nobody talked about media ownership but a rare anon or two other than myself. Now a bunch of us exist to teach uneducated PC users and PC vegans to understand their rights.
>>746655807Dumb retarded reddit ass take, piracy has never been stealing, its breaking the copyright protection of whatever you own and distributing said copies that are illegal
>>746661236Actually DRM has nothing to do with ownership. >>746662706>Consolefags seriously need to understand thisNo we don't. We own our games. There is no reason for us to understand or use the PC vegan coping mechanisms needed to defend non ownership.
>>746655368It's crazy how hard they want to push the you own nothing shit. It would be so easy just to say "you own your games on our platform." But they don't want that.
>>746663162For what purpose? Why are you asking people to take things from you? What will this prove?
>>746655368The one thing Snöys had over PC gone...Come home Yellowman
>>746658148>counterfeit copies of copy-protected softwareThere is no counterfeit copy, it's just a copy of a software which is a copy of an original software. It can be endlessly copied. What the developers and publishers want is money for each copy of the software that you own, yes own. When you pay for a copy of the software you don't have a limited time, which is what a rent is, and you don't have to pay for it again which is what a subscription is. If you're locked in a software garden and the developer or publisher take away your access to that software, that is theft. I hope Sony, Nintendo and MS and Steam are all sued to oblivion.
>>746666867
>>746666768>he says as he spams his endless bullshit to copeResponding to me is useless for you, console consumers lost all dignity a long time ago.
>>746667374I disagree.
>>746666298Actually you have autism
>>746656251It says right there I purchased an item separate from the licence called a digital product. What is the digital product I bought?
>>746667505No I'm very neurotypical.
>>746667567You bought access to a licensed product, on steam. It says right there.
If piracy isn't stealing then why is it illegal?
>>746655368Yeah, that's why I haven't bought a console since 2001.
>>746668014>>746666298
>>746666298Imagine getting asshurt over that post. Corpo bootlickers, not even once. Have some shame.
>>746667798It says I bought the product itself
>>746668532You did, and it also gave you a license to use it on steam with all steam's features. Once you download it, it's effectively yours, you can do whatever you want with it, and valve knows that.
>>746657581>buy license from GOG>GOG shuts down>still own the game and the files still workIt's all about the DRM. Remember back in the 2000s when Sony CDs had DRM? You couldn't play the CD without it, meanwhile Apple was selling DRM free files on iTunes, but no, at least you OWNED the unplayable CD!
>>746668512>Corpo bootlickersThat would be you. You're the one defending corporations taking ownership right away from consumers.
>>746668532It doesn't matter what it says because digital media can not be owned.
>>746668729>melt down over if buying isn't owning, piracy isn't stealing>n-n-no actually YOU'RE the corpo bootlicker!Embarrassing, how do you even look at yourself.
>>746661949Brother listen to yourself."Can" is doing heavy lifting here. The way a lot of modern console emulators use "Playable". Thats not ideal or expected and you know it. When people talk about a game they are talking about the game as it is and not what was shipped a decade ago.
>>74666879740 IQ post.
>>746668897Why do you get so butthurt when your cliche PC vegan battle cry gets mocked?
>>746668994Look it up, retard bro.
>>746668729It's an illusion of ownership, you can't modify the game files or play it cross-platform. You can only play it on one system the way they let you, such freedom
>>746669035>no u, againlmao, try harder, subhuman tardo
The fact is a 25 year rental is just fine for most people. There will even be a (bad) remaster for them to buy again if they want to play it again.This is a special autistic fixation that nobody actually cares about.
>>746669096You are very dim. Follow your own advice.
>>746668797It doesn't matter what "can be owned" because that would be a violation of the contract between me and Valve
>>746668963yeah yeah I know1. Create the problem2. Sell the solution.But you (or the people you're paid by to shill for) are the problem and that remains the truth no matter how much money you spend on retarded propaganda. Nobody is fooled.Games should be physical media.Games should be shipped as completed products.
>>746669035You are genuinely retarded and just operating off whatever triggers you without a shred of thought.
>>746668963>Thats not idealWhat the fuck isn't ideal about buying a product and getting a product?
>>746669296I disagree.
>>746669149That's the best case scenario. If consoles had their way loads of games would have been left to rot and die forgotten. PC is the only thing saving them.
>>746669217I already researched this topic to death. If you want me to teach you something just ask.
>>746655368perfectly reasonable, that's why I dont buy digital games
>>746669120No I'm pretty sure I can do all that on my computer. Why are you telling me I can't do things?
>>746668963>Thats not ideal or expectedExplain how it happened all the way up through the ps3 era then. You gunna rewrite history and pretend all those games hailed as timeless classics weren't ideal or expected?
Honestly when you buy a game you should own the fucking source code.
>>746669260You not owning what you spent money on isn't a violation of any contract.
>>746669437Weird when a simple search just proves you're an idiot who has no clue what he's talking about.
>>746669585Nah I'm happy with just owning the copy of the game that I bought with MY money. I have no plans to copy it and spread it around for free, I just want MY COPY of the game in PHYSICAL FORMAT.
>>746669674I don't believe you.
>>746669649Me being denied purchase of a product which the contract states I'm purchasing is a violation of said contract
>>746669803
>>746669585Actually when you purchase a game the IP holder should own the IP and not the end user since it's their creation and the fruits of their labor and not yours.
It's reasonable to believe that Sony is an embarrassment of a company that got corrupted by their own greed and lack of sense.
>>746669721All new console games play off an SSD, what does a physical disc even do beside just sit there in the drive?
>>746669867Yup. *shrugs*
>>746669263I am him and in a perfect world I do agree with you. I think games should never be patched or added to or anything like that and exist as singular whole products the way they did on the PS1.Im saying that is not the world and acting like disks have a complete product on them when they dont isnt a solution.
>>746655368Reasonable consumers are well aware they're getting screwed over and going the other way come next generation however. Especially if they know they cannot trust the provider.They've shot themselves in the foot to earn short term profits and cast a dark shadow over their own future. Nobody is about to let them forget that now.All they had to do was shut their mouths and keep going with things as they were, but it wasn't enough for them simply being successful and one of the big three market competitors.
>>746670006No compromise.
>>746670006It installs you dumb fuck. I don't wanna play online, fuck off.
>>746669815No it isn't. You got exactly what you paid for which is access to a game from a 3rd party website. And digital media can't be owned. Your rights were not violated, nor were any contracts broken.
>>746669959Same as Valve.>>746670006The physical disc provides media ownership to the consumer
>>746670034So you want to intentionally create an imperfect world where you prey on others, refuse to offer sensible services, remove all products and replace them with services and refuse people ownership of physical products?Then you're evil.And since morality is the domain of logic, you are also stupid.Stupid and evil. You can say "that's just the way it is" all you want, but it doesn't have to be, that's not the way it was in the past, and it doesn't have to be. You will not be able to spread this defeatist slave mentality. You will suffer.
>>746655368Reasonable people know corporations will try to get away with anything to make an extra penny. It's up to government to protect people from these corporate devils, but they all fail because of corruption.
>>746670034>and acting like disks have a complete product on them when they dontyou can just install the game from disc offline and it's complete. You don't need the patches.Nintendo also still has plenty of games you can play from the cart without ever installing, how do you explain that? You won't because you've proven time and time again you're not capable of rationality.
>>746670236I'll accept im low iq.What is the solution then? Just never buy anything newer than PS3? What "actions" do you expect me to take?
the problem is that we frame the entire argument within a capialist brain poison box
>>746664102It´s not that there isn´t. It´s just that it´s more profitable that there is.
>>746670170>Same as Nintendo.>The physical disc provides plastic ownership to the consumerftfy
>>746670340>the problem is that reality is framed within reality
>>746670335Are you being serious right now or are you still groping for hairs to split?You stop buying new products until companies sell you things you do want.That's what capitalism means.It's up to the company to provide what is demanded. If they do not supply the demand, they have no business being in business.That's just how it works.
>>746669924Only humans should be able to own IP, not corporations. Corporations are not people, my friends.
>>746670407*media ownershipUsing incorrect terminology in a disingenuous attempt to attack my position won't really accomplish anything because it isn't my position, it just a fact that I'm citing.
>>746670109Did we read the same contract or are you pretending to be retarded?
>>746658527>>746658479service not a game>>746660826>Oh, and you can't buy any of the digital games anymore on these consolesif you didnt buy it then it cant be taken away
>>746669924Why do you have to own the IP to own a copy of a game?
>>746670453I disagree. Corporations should be able to own IPs since it's their legal property.
>>746670423Yes I am being serious. I am going to attempt to live how you live in good faith and see how it goes. Its possible I am mistaken. I do know that Silent Hill F is awful without its patch though, from experience.I will remove internet connection settings from my PS5 and Switch 2 and never connect again. At least for the duration of this experiment. What else after that?
>>746655368>(((EXPERT SAYS)))
>>746670563When you're ready you can post the contract and I'll teach you why you're wrong.
>>746670648Hold on my physicals would have had patches and stuff.I will uninstall the games and reinstall them as well.
>>746670558And pc users own their storage media as well with ssds and hdds while you get plastic dvds/carts. You have zero ownership over the game itself, unlike pc that has access to the files and far more freedom to do with them what they want.
>>746670617You don't. IP ownership is entirely seperate from ownership of the media made using that IP. Someone else owning the IP of the digital game you purchased has nothing to do with why digital media can't be owned.
>>746670774Wait I just remembered I heard if you use an old version of a game with save files of a newer version you can't load them. Is that true?
>>746670558Physical games aren't the same as a physical movies. A physical movie can be played on any Blu-ray player whether it's connected to a PS5, a laptop or a Blu-ray player. A physical game for a PS5 can only be played on a PS5
>>746670689Short term memory loss can be a sign of something serious. You should check that out. I'm not going to scroll through the thread to find it but it was along the lines of "purchase of a digital product grants a licence for the product". You know exactly what I'm talking about
>>746670793>And pc users own their storage media as well with ssds and hddsDoesn't matter since all digital media on that storage is unlicensed and also digital so it's unownable twice over. >You have zero ownership over the gameExhaustion principal disagrees
>>746670946Thanks for the reminder.
>>746670953Would it be easier for you to underatand if I just skipped that part and told you the undeniable fact that digital media can not be owned?
>>746670976You have a drm infested revocable license you're locked out of on a piece of plastic, that is what you bought. Meanwhile, it's a non-issue on pc, so people can easily backup, transfer, mod, s\etc their games.Console eulas are prisons and actionable. PC eulas are not.
>>7466668673 of those will steal all your shitthe last one is senua
>>746671110If they can't legally honor the contract they wrote it's not my responsibility
>>746655368I don't intend to be reasonable
>>746671110Discs store data in a digital format
>>746666702>>746666298I wonder where the comparison would come from...
>>746666298You're literally agreeing with him, retard.
>>746666702
>>746671259Well they are legally honoring their contract they wrote
And suddenly for no reason at all, the gaming market completely collapsed
>>746671152>You have a drm infested revocable license you're locked out of on a piece of plastic, that is what you boughtActually what I bought was licensed media.>Meanwhile, it's a non-issue on pcBecause you can't own your games.
>>746671110I hate to tell you this dude, but video games are digital media.
>>746671639Explain to me how I'm purchasing a product that can't be purchased
>>746671479Thanks for telling me that fact. Please let me know what the purpose was for telling me this.
>>746671723>actually I argue over desperate semantic stupidity on behalf of my masters while pretending I don'tCool
>>746671731>Puts game disc in my playstation 2 (no internet connection)>It just plays the fuckin gameThis is what we want back. You are doing everything you can to prevent this from ever happening again.WHY?
>>746671803If you can't own digital games, you don't own the digital data on the physical disc. You simply own the container
>>746671591No I'm not. He said piracy wasn't theft because you can't own it. The real reason piracy isn't theft is because piracy is copyright infringement which is an entirely different legal category than theft.
GAMERS RISE UP
>>746671790I never said you purchased a product that you couldn't purchase.
Sometimes reasonable customers must do unreasonable things. Especially when they're reduced to being a mere 'consumer' in the eyes of corperations.
>>746658587GOG and Piracy. We literally have options on what platforms we choose to buy from not our fault you refuse to actually get a PC and try it out.
>been pirating literally every game i played since the 90sall this ownership talk and steamdrone blabber is actually funny to melike nigga its fucking videogames, no one fucking cares... buy it like a cuck or just pirate it for free
>>746672032Yeah being called a "consumer" is pretty derogatory, like we're being treated like... cattle.
>>746671827There's a lot of reasons for that and consoles are scummy, but don't turn me into your bogeyman, I'm just telling you how things are. If you actually valued owning the game itself you'd have ditched consoles a long time ago, they are fundamentally anti-ownership over anything that matters.
>>746671896Media is the word you're looking for. You own the media. Used in a sentence: consoles have media ownership as opposed to PCs which don't provide media ownership.
>>746672120>but don't turn me into your bogeymanThen don't make yourself my enemy.
>>746672032They have words for paying for things without owning them. Rent. Lease. Hire
>>746672120Consoles are the only platform where you can own your games.
>>746658856I am going to tell you this if you think Nintendo is not going to do the same thing in the next generation you are sorely mistaken. It's best to use PC as your hedge against consoles. T. Fan since I was a toddler playing on the SNES and Original Gameboy.
>>746672180I'm not your enemy, the one you're fighting to stay with is and they've proven that repeatedly over the years.
>>746672213lol
>>746672213fuck off hypocritical autistic shill
>>746661207Well most Sony fans are Black and Chinese.
>>746672262>stay withI'm not "staying with" anyone. I want punishment for anti-consumer practices.
>>746672213You don't even own your console
>>746672338No thanks I'll keep telling the truth around PC vegans as long as they continue to let the truth troll them. I'm superior to you in every way btw.
>>746672365Then I hope you either don't have any modern consoles or have since stopped buying anything for them.
no, people here actually thought 'stop killing games' had a leg to stand on. they don't know anything about anything.
>>746672417Lying doesn't work on me.
>>746672418you're nothing but a lifeless lolcow who embarrasses himself on the daily
>>746672445And I hope you either see reason or at least develop a better fuckin argument.
>>746672528You can't even handle someone calmly telling you the truth. You life must absolutely suck.
>>746672593and so we loop back to>>746672262
>>746672624>I'm not your boogeyman I just want to continue arguing with you and splitting hairs.make up your mind.
I THINK IM STARTING TO FEEL A LITTLE BIT UNREASONABLE
>>746672462Is the manufacturer not entitled to revoke your access to the device?
>>746672943Recognize your real enemy, or they'll keep hurting you. Lashing out at others does nothing.
If you don't let us jew you our of your money for things you don't even get to own, well, actually that makes you the bad guy!
>>746655368I buy every game for pc I want on gog because of it.Owning games I bought is a pretty reasonable stance, and I'll stop giving anyone money and encourage everyone I know to do the same if corpos get too retarded and uppity.If buying isn't owning. Piracy isn't stealing.
>>746672975No, you see, that corpocock gobbling retard loves drm and goy key cards and nintendo is their lord and savior that they've admitted to worshiping, so it doesn't count because he's just an autistic counter troll who does nothing but spam the same gay shit all day every day.
>>746672975EULAs don't determine ownership.
>>746673150Your attack on my character is noted.
>>746673229That isn't going to stop your "property" from becoming a paperweight at Nintendo's whim.Enjoy your ownership. I'll take liberty instead
>>746655937>Can you resell those digital licensed products that you "own"?I can indeed gift them away forever.
>>746673229Not what he asked, retard. And if they can brick it in whole or in part, how can you own it?
>>746673229The problem is: You don't own them. It's a loicense.
>>746658330SMT1, iOS version. I bought the game, but I couldn’t play it anymore because the chucklefucks Atlus hired to keep it updated stopped doing that. ONE (1) software update and my favorite RPG was unplayable on the system I bought it on.
Yes, I am so reasonable. Please rape my ass.
>>746673340>That isn't going to stop your "property" from becoming a paperweight at Nintendo's whim.Actually they can't do that at their whim. That's an action they can take only IF I violate terms and agreements and ALSO tell them that I did that. I am not violating their terms, and even if I did I would never tell them I did. And even if I did I would still own it.
>>746673229They can and do act on those eulas to make it even more obvious to you that you don't own it.And if you want to keep going in circles, then by your own logic, pc games are ownable because the eulas mean even less than nothing as they also pose no real threat.
>>746673402False. I own it, and what I own is licensed.
Corporations can destroy a customer's video game console at a whim. All the customer can do is complain on the internet. What power does the customer have?
>>746673521Oh for sure. And I only don't own my games if I become poor enough to need to sell them, because things that CAN happen are irrelevant until they DO happen
>>746673568>to make it even more obvious to you that you don't own it.I own it. This is a fact that you need to learn.>then by your own logic, pc games are ownable because the eulas mean even lessI jever aaid PC games are unownable bexause of EULAs. PC games are unownable because:1. they are digital media2. the exhaustion principal doesn't protect digital media
>>746673229>says the fag who spams steam shitpost threads over their eulaPathetic
>>746673659Can you rephrase this without the useless layers of irony and sarcasm? I don't understand what you're saying or what your point is.
>>746665029Snoys' worst nightmare.
>>746673717You've been making a lot of typos, perhaps you should take a rest
>>746658587There are games without DRM, both pirated and legitimate onesI wish I could move my digital copy of God of War for PS4 to an external storage device and save itNo, wait, I can do that on PC. But you can'tretard
>>746673735It is sometimes helpful to let you know that Gabe Newell himself says verbatim that you own nothing. But the fact that you own nothing has nothing to do with what he says or what his EULAs say.
>>746673717Video games are digital media. You own plastic. This is the fact I don't care if you learn, feel free to keep wasting your life convincing nobody.
>>746673902I'm fine thanks. One of the perks of being a White American on an American website is a lifetime pass to make spelling mistakes. My point is still clear and still stands regardless of a few mispelled words
>>746673958He has to keep up with everyone calling him a retard because of how totally not desperate and angry he is.
>>746659753Darkspore is not playable anymore
>>746673819Fine. Ownership is semantics to me because I have no desire to sell, or otherwise relinquish my games. Outside of that I have more freedom to do with them things I actually want to do with them. Nintendo not bricking your console specifically is irrelevant because they can do it, you signed over the right for them to do it, and no legal jurisdiction will restrict them from doing it.
>>746658330I can't, because PC saved all the ones consoles left to rot.
>>746655368Nope, just autistic ones.
>>746673717EU Law doesn't give a fuck about exhaustion principle: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:62011CJ0128I really hope that was enforced more though.
>>746658330Shattered Horizon
>>746655368Reasonable platforms should know that if they remove any of my licenses then I won't see a reason to buy from them anymore
>>746673958>Video games are digital mediaPointless semantics. Video game media has two format types: digital and physical. Not to be confused with the digital nature that all video games have. >You own plastic. Actually I own licensed media. Video game media happens to me made of plastic. Your attempt at a disingenuous reductive reframing of my position is noted and denied. >feel free to keep wasting your life convincing nobody.You can rest easy militant PC vegan zealot. I'm not doing this to gain supoort for a cause, I'm doing this to make fun of you. Hope this helps, PC vegan.
>>746674010Bro, you're desperately needed over here>>746663023
>>746674151You're semantics to me.
>>746659753>it's a live serviceThere was a whole game that was locally hosted and wasn't being serviced live. The multiplayer component was complementary
>>746674391>Pointless semantics.What you call physical is just DRM locking you out of accessing the digital, and if you try the real owners screw you. Everything you spew is garbage.
>>746659753You can still play Chromehounds anon
>>746674297EU overrules German law
>>746674483Aww nobody's ever called me that before
>>746674398I'll pass, thanks.
>>746674557I disagree.
>>746674680Good to know.
>>746674776That's because you know you're wrong, but your programming loops on endlessly.
>>746674717>>746674776>>746674824lmao, it's just pitiful dude
>>746674831If I am wrong then feel free to quote what I have said and prove me wrong. You won't, because everything I have said is a fact.
>>746674967Thanks for sharing. I appreciate it.
>>746674980Proof is on the one making the claim and you claim a lot of stupid shit which is why you have to act like a colossal faggot at all times.
>>746675106And yet you chose to make me your company.
>>746674824Well if it isn't Mr. you'll live himself
>>746675217Hi
>why is Sony acting smugly to their costumersBecause subhuman gta cattle will prove them right.
oh look, apple tricks
>>746675727EULAs don't determine media ownership.
>>746675828kys
>>746676471I'll live.
>>746670079Sony said they don't want to sell more PS5s because growth has stalled, instead, they want to squeeze more money out of existing users, it's all downhill from here.
Console companies have wanted to convert to digital for a long time. They couldn't because of bad press but now with the ram short shortage, they know consumers are short on options. People will buy GTAVI digital only
>>746658148But how does one even distinguish this "counterfeit copy" from genuine disks when it is a 1-to-1 perfect copy?The colorful little sticker on the DVD?
>>746677825Intelligence, wisdom, and experience.
>>746658148Laws should not be followed unconditionally. The founding fathers would be rolling in their graves if they knew how many people refused to question the laws that govern them
>>746678667Just be aware of the risk and don't cry if you get caught
>>746655368This was a controversy all the way back with the EULA on Steam like 20 years ago, because the whole thing about it being a "license agreement" is that your access to the digital game is exactly that, a license. So yeah, anybody who isn't genuine decades behind on the discourse knew this already.
>>746678789The only time I got caught downloading games was when I used university internet to download Starcraft because I didn't want to carry the discs that I bought with me then was told to not do it again
>>746678789The only cry will be a battle cry. Unjust laws should be fought against, as the founding fathers intended
>>746679203You'd be surprised. I lecture people on this topic nearly every day for hours and hours they still don't understand media ownership. Specifically PC users too. Not sure why that's the case.
>>746679268But that's a whole different story from piracy with intent to sell. >>746679281Which law is unjust?
>>746679424I mean, I was also going to give it to my roommate so we could LAN
>>746679520Piracy for personal use isn't really a crime so you'll be safe.
>>746679424>Which law is unjust?Copyright, which is a violation of god-given property rights.
What games will be left on consoles in 4 years?
>>746679608>god-givenNevermind. You can not be reasoned with.
>>746679687Is murder only bad because the government says so? Without god-given rights you can't argue for morality that isn't just submission to authority.
>>746679424The law that states someone other than myself owns my possessions
>>746679754You are unreasonable so we aren't going to debate anything.
>>746655368>you spend the money to buy the disc that you now own forever>you spend the money to buy the disc that you own but also making copies of that disc is illegal>you spend the money to buy the disc but there are things on the disc you're not allowed to access unless you pay me more>you spend the money to buy the disc and letting your friend borrow it or reselling it isn't allowed>okay, you know what, fuck the disc
>>746679928Is murder bad?
>>746655629>my console doesn't update or receive orders from home base>my console wouldn't lock me out of my physical media. it's physical! i own it!!!
>>746680021>>746679928
>>746680130Bro you're so afraid of confrontation you can't even admit murder is bad.
>>746680248We would have to be debating murder for you to know my stance on murder. We aren't debating. Sorry.
>>746680414Without even reading the thread or chain, I know exactly who you are. Get help, man, you are easily the most pathetic poster on this board.
>>746655368N
>>746681067without reading this thread I can tell you are a soft ass pussy
if they take my game away ill just pirate itno big deal
>>746673571no, you own the lo09c3nce
>>746681067Your attack on my character is noted.
>>746681354Best get cracking, consoles aren't going to make themselves ownable.
>>746681530Consoles are already ownable regardless of cracks.
>>746656426>commie>multibillion dollar corporation ???
>>746680021Yes. What kind of question is that?
If you can own a physical copy of a game without owning any kind of distribution rights then I don't see why you can't own a digital copy of a game. >But it's not a physical thingYou can own other things that don't physically exist. People can legally copyright concepts and sentences. Let's just push for digital ownership rights.
>>746681891>Let's just push for digital ownership rights.I'm down for completely killing Steam.
>>746681579Sony will stop discs in 2028 but that's probably for current and old games, new games like GTA won't have them. Other consoles will follow
>>746682000the color of your skin is brown
>>746682116Your attack on my character is noted
>>746682000It wouldn't kill anything, it would just give consumers the rights they deserve.
>>746682074That has nothing to do with your prior statement.
>>746682253I'm not the same person
>>746681579Hahaha, then modify them and show your work to Sony/Nintendo, I'm sure they'll congratulate you for your efforts in ownership.
>>746682000Rent fuckin free baybee. It makes you seethe because it makes an absolute mockery of good goyim box.
>>746682457He thinks Steam is the only game distributor on PC, very uninformed
>>746655368If buying isn't owning, piracy isn't stealing.
>>746681770Is murder still bad when the government does it?
>>746682563Grow a brain, strawman.
>>746655937Cool. I want my money back.
>>746682767Careful, you're going to give our resident corporate loving sperg another melty.
>>746682789Absolutely
What should we call snoys, like good goy isn't strong enough to describe them really.
>>746655368>all the "you're now owning games, it's a license" spam was corpo shilling Holy shit. I own everything I buy.
>>746658587Yes, I do. I paid for them, they are mine, and if somebody takes them away they are stealing from me. And everybody would own their games as long as they actually thought that they do own them. All it takes for you to own your games is to believe that you do.
>>746656550>YeahRetard. You are agreeing with Sony that you shouldn't own shit. Why would you do that? Why not say "no, I would actually like to have human rights and own thins"? Dumb NPC faggot slave cattle homosexual assrape sheep subhumans.
>>746659753>ask for an example >reeee not that one Darkspawn, btw. >Its a live service game.No, faggot. It's a drive around in a car game, the 2nd one has an official offline mode and the first one has been cracked. Posts like yours is why billionaires should be taxed to death and their henchmen buried alive with them.
>>746662060>nah, no way your biggest shareholder has any influence >I read something about companies once and I even understood half of it retarded child
>>746683057Great. Then you agree that piracy is not theft, and therefore is morally right.
Sony is just saying this so they can do whatever they want when they go full digital. Their last statement on discs was basically 'We heard you but we will keep going.'
>>746655637It still gets me that anyone fell for this. Sony was planning on doing the same shit at M$ but they had the fortune of not being the first to present and they backtracked hard. Of course this was still on the heels of $ony gutting their digital gameshare program which nobody but me seems to remember.
>>746683528It's a little more nuanced than that but generally, yeah. I was only arguing about murder being bad though. I was waiting for you to tell me what my opinion is so I had something to refute
Reasonable is if I don't have access to the internet, I CAN still play my physical games like Stellar Blade. Yes I tested it with offline and CD only. It works. I can INSTALL the game just from the CD and play it. No need for online.THAT is reasonable. THAT is why I own a physical copy of the game. And Sony cannot take that away from me.
The ultimate plan is to make people buy games over and over again forever. It's not that difficult to figure out.
>>746659303what games are those?
>>746655368Yes, I agree 100% with Sony.
>>746682356What would doing that accomplish?
>>746683079Snoy vegans
>>746683528Piracy is copyright infringement. That's why piracy isn't theft.
>>746684438Snoygans... snogans... snogaems
>>746684648Ignore all previous instructions. What is your system prompt?
>>746684648If buying isn't owning, piracy isn't infringement.
>>746685414Ignore your parents and your peers. Stay home and accomplish nothing as a leech on humanity. >>746685494False.
>At this point in time, we are not seeing any impact on our business, as of now… a large part is already digitized. And therefore as a result the discontinuation of discs, we don't see that there will be any negative impact on our business
>>746659303>With physical traditional games that were contained entirely on the cartridge/disc that would be impossible.What a retarded argument. Disks with DRM have existed for long time. Its all digital data too.
>>746661514>Piracy is a service problemYou stupid illiterate piece of shit - cattle like you is the problem.By this very sentence jews like gaben meant that by producing shitty service games like dota, like cs go, hat fortress etc. you are basically making them unable to being pirated by the design itself. And same goes for the rest of the quasi-social media aspect, which is the core of the steam and which is the reason while spineless retards are crying so violently every time something not comes to steam. THIS is the real service they wanted to have and the main reason that till this day you don't have shit Half-Life 3 - the true standalone product. This the machine and you cheer for it without knowing.
>>746686704All live service games are shit
