he remembers planting the nuke in arasaka tower personally, he remembers smasher having a grudge against him personally, he remembers beating the shit out of thompson. NONE OF IT HAPPENED.In the actual lore, morgan blackhand's team was the main character, smasher cut johnny in half and then went on to fight morgan blackhand, his true rival, and johnny never touched thompson (not that he could either)This doesn't make much sense, what, did he go insane while being stuck in mikoshi? well, no, he still acts "logically" (according to his logic at least) most of the time.That's because the engram is NOT a real reconstruction or recording of johnny's brain. Secure your soul? all that? bullshit. This only makes sense if you see it as a very complex ai basically recording brain data and using that as a base to generate more stuff. So johnny doesn't remember things that never happened because he's an egomaniac. They're his flashbacks that you see through v. he truly believes them.the relic is recording "johnny is this rebel who hates corporations above all else" and is using that to generate his engram memories. even stuff that never happened, it makes up a backstory based on what his personality is like. Johnny is not a person, he has no agency, he's a highly complex ai
>>746696012Or the writers just didn't care about the OG lore and established their own spin-off canon..
>unreliable narrator
>>746696012All of that happened and he survived the ordeal, but the engram process could have improvised. Rogue corroborated his stories and so did Alt.Have fun with your tangent, thought, I mostly found Silverhand obnoxious.
>>746696306it didn't happen. in canon smasher cuts him in half and spider murphy turns him into an engram as a last ditch effort to save him
>>746696198they did care, there's hints of him being incorrect, he mentions he never saw thompson again, thompson appears in the 2023 raid. he's flying the chopper. He never remembers morgan blackhand even though he was the main character of the raid
>>746696438>there's hints of him being incorrectNo, there's just some shit that's not consistent with tabletop lore. That doesn't mean anything.
>>746696198Or the writers wanted to adapt the most iconic storyline in the tabletop, but then Pondsmith vetoed the use of Blackhand. So they were stuck with Johnny and had to improvise, eventually coming up with the half-measure of "it happened, but Johnny remembers it wrong".
>>746696798alt calls it out too. it's clearly a deliberate choice by the writers
>>746696379Also his body wasn't buried and someone (cough cough engram alt in a body like Mr blue eyes) hired some edgerunners to steal it from arasaka and deliver it to her in 2050 or so
>>746696927>>746696198>>746696012In the OG plans for the game it made a big deal about who your childhood hero was, and the options were Saburo, Johnny and Morgan. I'm pretty sure the engram was going to be whoever you chose.
>>746699415>I'm pretty sure the engram was going to be whoever you chose.No, that was never supposed to be the case. The idols were just a part of your lifepath.And it makes sense - branching out the game to this insane degree that changes the whole main quest structure is just impossible in terms of budget.
>>746699630Oh yeah, it was never gonna be sustainable.
>>746696012somewhere in the game it's explained that johnny's memories are how he liked to remember them, not what actually happened. He did not actually play an encore and empty a bottle of jack right before flying and nuking arasaka tower, it's just how he would like to remember it.
>>746696012Isn't it alluded in game that he misremembered?
>>746696012
What's crazy is that I have all the answers to this thread's questions, but not the time.Keep it alive, boys, I'll be back in like 3 hours.
>>746699902it is>>746699853yes, and i think it goes beyond that. i think it's as simple as "he's not a person, he's a program making up memories with the prompt of : johnny silverhand, rebel rockerboy" and then it goes on and makes up the last concert and him being the main character on the raid and all that. whenever he gets called out for it, he has nothing to say. doesn't make sense for a delusional person. makes sense for an ai getting a 404 error
>>746696012Has it just occurred to you that he's not a very reliable narrator and a lying narcissist?
>>746700009Soulkiller is not some gay ass prompt LLM. It's a direct copy of a person, warts and all.And boy does Johnny Boy have lots of warts.
>>746700173>>746700009
>>746700229how about jackie? his engram if you send his body to viktor only repeats basic phrases that he said in life like a retarded LLM. i think that's just what an engram is, on a very basic, very damaged level. Johnny is just an advanced, working version
>>746700229>>746700009Johnny is an copy that killed the original, too. Which is the most accurate you can get. That engram is 100% his brain patterns made into data.
>>746700275Because he was already dead at that point? Soulkiller might be a magic asspull, but there's only so much asspullery it can do from a brain that has ceased to function.
God this game could have been so much fucking better than the bullshit it turned out as. CDPR is goddamn incompetent.
>>746700360>>746700275Yeah, Jackie's engram was based off of an already dead brain. Can't exactly copy brainwaves that aren't there. I'm genuinely surprised it got anything out of him.
>>746700375It accomplished it's overaching goal of reviving the franchise. That said I don't have much hope for a sequel. I'd prefer a better studio handle it.
>>746696306> I mostly found Silverhand obnoxiousthat's because he is you dumb fuck
>>746699996OK I got some time. But I don't like typing shit out too much, I'm a voice note unc. You guys cool with that?
>>746700628So my assessment was correct, keep your anger to yourself.
>>746700009It all comes back to that question: even if something copies you to the fundamental details, is it really "you"?No matter how good the engram reproduction is, Johnny is dead. As is Saburo in another ending with his engram taking over the company.
>>746700864i'm not angry at you being a dumb fuck, dumb fuck
>>746700812Reminder that that ingame ad made the troons so salty CDPR threw in that car to try and calm their tits.
>the tranny ff8 fan theorists are now trying to relore a video game everyone says they didnt like for 5 years because they couldnt even play it
>>746701124You sure sound upset. Did you get bullied on the shortbus again?
>>746696012>This doesn't make much sense, what, did he go insane while being stuck in mikoshi?During the mission for Lizzy, if you listen to the conversation at the club, the arasaka representative alludes to the ability to edit engrams. the johnny we know is likely a hybrid of many different people's memories and fake memories mashed together.also johnny's body is somewhere in mexico, saved by a fire fighter. Rogue's son figures this out.it was spider murphy that soulkilled Johnny with a shard given to her by Alt before she was trapped. apparently it wasnt a complete copy of the dying Silverhand.
>>746696012nah Johnny was just such a cool and important person that the emperor himself had to give him a monologue in person before creating his engram.
>>746696012Congrats, anon. You figured it out (or paid attention during his AI gf reuniting mission where this is explained)
>>746696012>>746696198Johnny is just flat out not a reliable source of information. He was going through Cyberpsychosis when he was alive, so naturally some stuff is jumbled up, but he’s also just an ego maniac that thought he was more important than he was. This manifests in his memories in a lot of ways, like him saying he beat the shit out of Thompson and never worked with him again, but we know that’s not true because he was working with Johnny during the 2023 raid. Alt even says Johnny isn’t a reliable narrator when you finally meet her.
>>746700360But Johnny was dead when Spider used Soulkiller on him too.
>>746696012>In the actual loreNo reason to read past that.
>>746700009It is a perfect copy of Johnny, but Johnny wasn’t exactly a perfect person. Between his delusions of grandeur and actual schizophrenia, it’s unlikely that he’d be able to remember what really happened even if he tried. He couldn’t even remember that he wrote and performed Never Fade Away after Alt got kidnapped, not before.
>>746696012An engram is not a perfect copy of a person so there are inconsistencies but they weren't that bad, if they were Rogue would notice it. Pondsmith said there were three bombs so Johnny did plant one, and Smasher wouldn't keep his stuff or ask V about Rogue if he didn't care about him at all. Since engrams can inhabit human bodies, learn and change, have their own memories and personalities, etc. I wouldn't say they're just an advanced AI.
>>746696012What official lore?You mean some loose stories from an old edition of a pen & paper rpg system?
>>746700812Vocaroo it already unc.
>>746705975The official lore that they referenced in the game. They literally state that Johnny’s memories aren’t accurate.
>>746701021i'd say no but i'm arguing both from the continuity and the "origin" perspective. human beings are not made by man. consciousness, the brain, whatever. it's not man made. therefore it cannot be perfectly replicated by man within tech, so it's not the same thing. But yes there's also the continuity perspective.
>>746707448The official lore is whatever Mike Pondsmith pulls out of his rectum and he worked on the game.
>>746708487The official lore is what he wrote in the tabletop.
>>746708859Yeah, which version?The original author is allowed to retcon all he likes. Just how it is and deal with it.
>>746705820In fairness, Johnny was a difficult asshole and a compulsive liar, so Johnny being wrong, remembering things incorrectly, and giving himself credit for everything was pretty normal Johnny behavior.
>>746708918When did he retcon it?
>>746709726Do you have brain damage?
>>746709195And he was a genuine schizophrenic that had full conversations with his hand, and blamed it for all the violent and insane shit he did. Black Dog is literally about his Cyberpsychosis.
>>746709956Answer the question. When did Mike make a huge retcon like that, or state that everything in Johnny’s memories actually happened?
>>746703668Cyber psychosis is not real, in the lore is mostly a gaslighting term for being against corpos, angry about the shit living conditions and general I'll being. They can call "cyber psychosis quarantine" everytime they need it and justify cleansing. You have it at home it's called COVID and soon any other falseflag
>>746710336It is a real thing in universe, but it’s tied to your Humanity Score. If it gets too low, either by installing insane military grade chrome, or experiencing horrible shit, you start going nuts, and eventually lose all control of yourself. So while bad living conditions are a factor, the cyberware doesn’t do anything to help either.
>>746710332No really, do you have brain damage?
>>746710980Do you?
>>746711463He worked on the game. He signed off on it.Ergo any and all retcons in the game are a done deal.You may go back to nursing your head trauma now.
>>746710839>go to prison>lose all humanity, even with max starting, within 5 years>every prison term of 5+ is instant psychosisretarded mechanic
During a flashback, johnny gets blasted while down on the ground by smasher. Then there's a hard cut to him suddenly being back up and at the top of the building heading to chopper with no explanation, then the interrogation by saka etc.The hard cut is because after getting blasted, the rest of those memories are 100% made up by johnnys engram and the devs 100% knew what they where doing with that. He died when he got blasted on the ground by smasher. The game points out multiple times that johnnys memories are not to be trusted.
>>746706237Just got back; you got it nephew.Here's the entire deal of Johnny's memory from A to Z:https://voca.ro/1aiylQyMsLlB
>>746712421That’s why you need to run with a crew that break you out. Work smarter, not harder, Einstein.
>>746712597And suddenly Johnny has arm back when he got Soulkiller’d despite it being shot off by Adam on the roof. There are so many contradictions that it’s insane people didn’t realize Johnny’s memories can’t be trusted.
>>746712661I was bummed when I realized the Malorian is deliberately OP only in his memories, it was one of the most fun guns.
>>746696012It's just badly written slop.
>>746714028It is if you can’t read.
>>746713995Yeah same, but it makes sense in context, yet another clue at the questionable nature of Johnny's flashback
>>746713850I noticed the weird "cut" when he got blasted by smasher then was suddenly back up on the roof during my first blind playthrough, but didn't know anything about the lore/real story so I actually thought it was a developer mistake kek.It was multiple playthroughs before it properly "clicked" about a load of his memories being half-truths, and it makes far more sense when you know what really happened like the OP points out, and how it was Spider that actually 'engramed him and it didn't happen during a saka interrogation.And stuff like >>746713995 his gun being way more OP in his memories suddenly makes sense as well.
>>746714808Don't forget that the Relic literally got damaged too, his engram got all sorts of fucked
>>746699902Digi-Alt straight-up tells V that Johnny basically has main character syndrome & wants to imagine himself as the hero no matter what, even if that isn't how it actually happened
>>746710839Judging from that chart, soulless corpo executives should have the highest humanity from living the good life.
>>746720638NTA but Cyberpsychosis is indeed more common among the poor, which is why corpos were so easily able to misconstrue it as a psycho-sociological condition, instead of it being an actual consequence of chrome (there's a shard in CP 2077 about a former Zetatech researcher directly researching the psychosomatic effect of cyberware and finding solid causation, and he got canned for it). The thing about corpos is that they actually don't own their chrome, their company does, and it can be revoked for any reason the latter wants. Plus the access to higher quality of meeical services (rather than street ripperdocs) ensures that the well-maintained and "clean" chrome is a lot less likely to cause Cyberpsychosis compared to its "dirty" street counterpart.
>>746696012It's just a retcon, relax.
>>746721119>The thing about corpos is that they actually don't own their chrome, their company does, and it can be revoked for any reason the latter wantsForgot to elaborate that this means corpos typically keep their chrome around for less time, or at least cycle through it much more regularly, which also reduces the risk of developing Cyberpsychosis as time is a direct factor as well
