Why did FromSoftware turn Souls into rollslop boss rush games?
It's too boring. I tried finishing it 5 times and there's no point.
DS3 would be such a good game if they didn't intentionally make it so tedious to progress through levels
>>746919779>Why did FromSoftware turn Souls into rollslop boss rush games?Because that's what the majority of From Software fans wanted from the start, they only pretend to care about things like level design. That's why all they ever talk about is "muh interconnected areas" as if that matters at all when they're just connected by long hallways and elevators anyway.
>>746919779Because that's what the ;community wants'Most developers base their shit off of what sells on youtube/twitchSo when you have 'zomg no hit lolz all bosses blindfolded while being raped by dogs DS2 run' you get devs thinking 'oooh bosses = good'Most games aren't made to be 'played' that are AAA. They are made to be watched.
Because of a desire to one-up the "epicness" of each successive or iterative instalment of the series. That's why you have bosses like Morgott in Elden Ring now, who are retarded flailing walking hitboxes with 30 hit combos who *never* have real openings.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHZivI2PMrw
>>746919779>>746919932DS1>ER>BB>DS2>DS3
>>746920197holy trvke
>>746919779Pic unrelated I gues?DS3 has much more to offer than just the bosses
at what point is ds3 ever a boss rush?bosses come after levels full of regular enemies, with some invaders/enemy "players"
>>746920197Elden Ring is a ubisoft amusement park not a Souls title.
>>746919779>rollslopLiterally has no meaning, dishonest
>>746920197DS3 > DS1 > BB > DS2 > ER
>>746920912faggot contrarian
Dark Souls 2 is the only good souls game
>>746919779DS1 is my favorite and I wish they didn't keep increasing the pace of the combat, but I do like all the games even if they went in a direction I didn't particularly like. Besides combat being slower DS1 is the only one that feels like its own creative effort instead of forcing an existing concept to be a sequel (DS2) or derivative memberberries whose scant original contributions don't mesh well with established lore (DS3).Souls level design peaked in Latria btwAlso
>>746919779>Why did FromSoftware turn Souls into rollslop boss rush games?Because it sells more. It's unfortunate, but that's what it comes down to.
Ds2>ER>Ds1>Ds3>BB
nobody mentions demon's souls so it must be the best
>>746920197ER>DeS=BB>DS3=DS1>>DS2
>>746921062>instead of forcing an existing concept to be a sequelBut that's exactly what DS1 is to DeS.
>>746920154epic is being able to counter the boss every move, not wait for your turn because from keeps buffing bosses but the player has the same toolsetMHGU and onimusha have parry systems that let you deal damage/poise at the same time so there's never a boss turn. it's based.
>>746920912Based and true. Elden Stink ruined them permanently.They went full modern trendslop ubisoftification because of how successful it was as we can see with Fartreign and Shartbloods
>>746921417DS1 is a spiritual successor and doesn't bother trying to tie itself to DeS beyond references and callbacks which are only that, callbacks. DS2's world was interesting enough on its own (even if it isn't as interesting as DS1). it would've been better off doing the same thing instead of trying to clumsily establish itself as a sequel
>>746921604Wait. Elden ring doesn't have parries?
Demon's Souls (PS3) because I played it first > Sekiro > Dark Souls 2 Scholar of the First Sin > Bloodborne = Dark Souls 1 > Dark Souls 2 > Dark Souls 3 > Elden Ring > Nightreign > Duskbloods > Demon's Souls Bluepoint
>>746920357>>746920881yes, it's very weird to pick DS3 as the boss rush example when DS3 is pretty conservative with its bosses, having 1 per area with like 2, maybe 3 exceptions in the base gamecemetery has gundyrhigh wall is vordt and then dancer much, much laterundead settlement has curserotted greatwoodroad of sacrifices has no bosscathedral has deaconsfarrons keep has watchdogscatacombs has wolniririthyll has pontiff and then aldritch as part of anor londo if you want to count it as one areairithyll dungeon has no bossprofaned capital has yorhmarchdragon peak has ancient wyvern but that's more of a stage hazard than a true boss, then nameless kinglothric castle has dragonsalyer armorconsumed kings garden has oceroisuntended graves has champion gundyrgrand archives has twin princeskiln has soul of cinderand that's it for the main game. 18 bosses over 17 areas. For comparisons sake DS1 has 22 boss across 22 areasashes has 2 bosses for the entire dlc and ringed city has 4 over 2 major areas
>>746921613I think you could easily make a very strong argument that for better or worse DS2 does far more to distinguish itself from DS1 than DS1 does for DeS, or even DS3 to DS1. If you're going to hold that opinion of DS2 I don't see how you wouldn't feel the same with the first game.
>>746921679>road of sacrifices has no bossroad of sacrifices has the crystal sage, and the other one shows up as a non-boss encounter in the grand archiveslikewise the dragonslayer armor shows up again in the ringed city as a non-boss encounter
>>746921796>road of sacrifices has the crystal sage,ah yes, the most forgettable boss, no wonder I missed him. 19 bosses over 17 areas, then.the point being that DS3 only uses bosses to cap off areas in the same way that DS1 does so it getting hate for being a "boss rush" game is a strange criticism
>>746921642it does but they deal poise damage, not outright damage and there's no way to know which boss/attack they work on. it's retarded.
>>746921758DS1 is not in the same universe as DeS, that's the crux of my argument. DeS, DS1 and DS2 are all pretty different from each other thematically, which is why I think it's unfortunate DS2 didn't strike out on its own like DS1 did. Hell they could've kept the name, call it DS2 but make it an anthology series like Final Fantasy.
>>746921642It's mostly bosses that wield melee weapons that can be parried, like Margit/Morgott, Malenia, and Promised Consort Radahn. And for those that can, it often requires multiple parries to actually break their stance and let you do a critical hit.
>>746921642in an effort to curtail the power of parry fishing without just making it do no damage they made it so certain bosses require 3 successful parries before you can trigger a riposte
>>746921610creative namecalling manreally shows your maturity
>>746921879Not gonna chime in on whether this is true or not but the criticism is usually about level design and boss design, not the quantity of bosses. As in, DS3 takes a huge step back in regards to the complexity/quantity of level design while the bosses were ramped up a lot to be spectacles themselves instead of being tied to the levels more closely like the previous games did.Personally I would agree with that too.
>>746919779Filtered>>746919932Filtered>>746919879Filtrred>>746921758DS2 distinguishes itself for not understanding Souls games and making design choices from the point of view of somebody who doesn't understand level design, souls games and how to design level encounters and bosses>>746921062There's nothing derivative about Dark Souls 3Dark Souls 3 closely follows the plot of Dark Souls while setting up readonable connections that show how society, religion and the world itself changedThis is what Dragon's Dogma 2 tried to do with the first game and failedQithout Dark Souls 3 we would never truly understand what Kaathe was ACTUALLY tryong to achieve with the 4Kings for example, or what happened to the exiles after New Londo was floodedThe irony of humanity switching to worshipping Fire after Gwyn bound them to it, and Fire outliving the Gods and their cult anywhere but in Courland (the Ringed City)The massive depth that was given to Chaos and how they were purposefully linked to and explaining the connection with pyromancers that was in the First game. Chaos is a merge of Souls in rituals to reverse engineer a Flame, and Blood is the medium that connects Souls. This is also why the Lothric Knights are shown beheading themselves to offer blood in vow, finding a way to link Souls for a kindling. Vow that Oceiros betrayed by snuffing and corrupting the Flame for Sulyvahn (thus the amount of empty armor and the ashes/dust effects all around the city) in exchange for Dragon research.Dark Souls 3 has massive narrative and worldbuilding depth on par with Elden Ring, Dark Souls and the first Bloodborne.
>>746921879>ah yes, the most forgettable bossNah it was great and the best mage summoning clones boss.
>>746922370>instead of being tied to the levels more closelycrystal sage is the only boss that immediately comes to mind as feeling out of place or plopped in. the rest all have a pretty good reason for being where they are
>>746922370>DS3 takes a huge step back in regards to the complexity/quantity of level design???
>>746922524You misunderstand or I worded it badly. The older games were mostly gimmicky fights based around the levels in terms of gameplay, while DS3 tends to have more straight fights that are better in terms of combat gameplay. Like say the Armor Spider from DeS where the boss fight itself was about the mine shaft being narrow and having to approach it safely, Ivory King being an army vs army fight, Ceaseless Discharge taking a tumble instead of a direct fight, etc. Or even something more mundane like changing the arena shape for Dragonrider and Mytha. DS3 still has aspects of this obviously like with the big dragon in the peak area, it's just less focused on it. That's what people typically mean, a change in priorities essentially.
>>746922389>there is nothing derivative about dark souls 3Yeah this reads like LLM
>>746922389>There's nothing derivative about Dark Souls 3Anor Londo? Firelink shrine in the DLC? The entirety of the painted world?>Dark Souls 3 closely follows the plot of Dark SoulsDS1 is a self contained game. The only reason DS3 even has a plot to follow is because DS2 did its dirty work and opened the floodgates with its cycle bullshit.
3 won 2 lost see you next thread
>>746921940No, that would be fucking awfulDark Souls 3 works exactly because it's a great sequel that meaningfully connects to the original in waysDark Souls 2 is a bad game where nothing actually happens and with no meaningful payoff in any wayThe story of Dark Souls 2 is some dude going somewhere to a magic portal for an unspecified reason somewhat tied to a weird retcon of the undead curse and achieving nothing
>>746923086>Dark Souls 2 is a bad game where nothing actually happens and with no meaningful payoff in any wayDrangleic Castle? Hollow Vendrick? QLD crown quest? Aldia?
>>746922961DS1 copies most of the levels from Demon's Souls
>>746922840One that's not even particularly complex, and two there's a lot more to level design than just the layout of the map.
>>746923158The average DS3 map is more complex than the average DS2 or DS1 map.
>>746923158that's more of a point against DS1 where the levels are interconnected but lot of them are very simple and empty
>>746922961>Anor Londo? Firelink shrine in the DLC? The entirety of the painted world? Yeah none of those are derivative>DS1 is a self contained gameNo it's not. Dark Souls 1 ending has specifically no consequence whatsoever no mater your personal choice and ending. Dark Souls doesn't elaborate on many elements, only barely hints the Dark Prophecy of Velka for example and Kaathe agenda and reason why the Darkwraith harvest humanity, which is actually explained in Dark Souls 3 and central to the plot>The only reason DS3 even has a plot to follow is because DS2 did its dirty work and opened the floodgates with its cycle bullshit.No this is a lie parroted by fake fans and loreletsDark Souls 2 tried to set up the cycles and Dark Souls 3 ignored it altogether for the betterDark Souls 3 retcons Drangleic being Lordran and Eleum Loyce being Anor Londo and instead sets up actual worldbuilding off the foubdation of the first game in order to continue the story of the first game which actually needed closure.
>>746919779They moved on from snoyshit to kino like duskbloods. The future looks bright now.
>>746923117NTA but>Drangleic Castle?culminates in the throne of want, which is basically just another way of linking the flame. linking the flame or refraining from doing so is ALWAYS a nothingburger. even if you do not link it, someone ELSE will.>Hollow Vendrickkilling him allows you to face aldia for an alternative ending (which is also a nothingburger) >QLD crown questidk what you mean by QLD. please refresh my memory. >Aldia his alternate ending, where you just fuck off and choose not to link the flame, is a nothingburger. indeed, collecting all of the thrones from the DLCs prevents YOU from hollowing, but the dark sign remains a problem. evidently so in ds3. i personally enjoyed ds2, but i dont think youve got much of an argument to stand on
>>746923117Why dis you mention a bunch of places where nothing happens and dudes that literally do nothing?Why is the story of Dark Souls 2 literally Cinderella vs the Evil Queen lmao? What happens with the Undead Curse what was of the serpents and their role?Why is it all superficial and shallow in ita connections to the original game? It sucks
>>746923231Again, there's more to it than the map. You even posted a great example, Shrine of Amana isn't just walking straight forward at all. Level design includes things like enemy placement, enemy type, how it's traversed, ambushes, gimmicks, where the player's attention is drawn, the visuals, stats/balancing of the area, etc. I'm not gonna defend a claim here. I do think DS2 is world's above DS3 in this regard, but all I'm doing here is correcting anon's assumption about what the "boss rush" critique is about. If it was just about boss quantity then it'd be levied at DS2, but everybody knows that game has a lot of level inbetween even if they think they're shit levels.
How the fuck is DS3 or Elden Ring a bossrush?They spend 90% of their runtime with the most fucking boring padded normal areas ever.Dont get me wrong, DS1 and DS2 might be my favorite, but Nightreign is so fucking good and a monumental upgrade over DS3 and ER precisely because its an actual boss rush.
>>746923635>culminates in the throne of want, which is basically just another way of linking the flame. linking the flame or refraining from doing so is ALWAYS a nothingburger.>alternate ending (nothingburger)not white enough to acknowledge how kino ds2's ending is and how much cooler it is than ds1's >old crown questits the three DLCs
>>746923978>not white enough to acknowledge how kino ds2's ending is and how much cooler it is than ds1'splease elaborate
>>746922370>As in, DS3 takes a huge step back in regards to the complexity/quantity of level designBullshit
>>746923231no way, fag
>>746923323Dark Souls 2 eats their cake and has it tooSimple/empty levels that are not interconnected lmao
>>746923672Not only does DS3 have more complex levels, it also has plenty of map gimmicks and superior enemy placement. Patrolling enemies and enemies with backs turned rewards players who use slumbering dragon crest, and the versatility provides plenty of opportunities to plunging attack. Assassin can get a lot of value out of the spook spell early game. Irithyl dungeon is probably the only area in the entire series which rewards stealth so heavily.
>>746924231>Bro look we got the vertical maps too>90% of it is dead ends where you collect mcguffins and the actual route is a vertical line, but you have to take a bunch of elevators so it looks complexYeah ok
>>746924231You have to slog though a garbage base game just to get 3 decent maps on par with the other games.
>>746919779Because bosses are fun.
>>746924290>plenty of map gimmicksSure, but it has less.>and superior enemy placement.lmao
>>746920154Spammy bosses wouldn't be such a massive problem if you didn't keep the same animations as the guy from Dark Souls 3. Everyone who beat ER just runs away from the bosses until they stop spamming because there's no way to dodge their attacks anymore without getting clipped. You can tell it was supposed to be a parry fest like Sekiro but changed their game halfway through
>>746924701Damn, it sucks that ER removed blocking and parrying.
>>746919779i don't get the hate for ds3 i really enjoyed it
>>746924358>swamp but for the 4th timeyeah thanks miyazaki
>>746924863>i don't get the hate for ds3 i really enjoyed itit's either deranged fromsoft antis from discord or ragebait engagement shitposters. this applied to any fromsoft game, though they like to use fromsoft games as a smokescreen. i.e: >sekiro is better than elden dog shit ring because you can abuse buff stacking in elden! >ds1 / ds 2 is better because of the slow methodical combat! etc
Fromsoft gave up on exploration and opted for the boss rush style since it's evidently more popularSome absolute tourists might point to ER to say it has more exploration than ever, but open world utterly breaks what makes souls good, and copypasted linear dungeons are just an insult. The game only has a couple real levels, "legacy dungeons"
>>746924358Far Cry level design
>>7469243892 has the best levels
>>746925365I think area design is about more than interconnectivity.
>>746925365Some of those areas in DS1 suck ass though. Ash Lake sucks. The Great Hollow sucks. Lost Izalith sucks. Darkroot Basin and Darkroot Garden may as well be the same area. Same with Undead Parish and Burg. Crystal Cave is just a small extension of Grand Archives.
>>746925365I dont get this map because you can get to Black Gulch from Doors of Pharos
>>746921417but DeS is mid thou
>>746926797>you can get to Black Gulch from Doors of PharosUh, no you can't
>>746927236If you beat the rat dog boss it leads you to the Gutter
>>746927684You're thinking of the royal rat boss in grave of saints which is what the map shows
>>746924247Just because your irithyll dungeon map separates things that are clearly not meant to be separated doesn't make it a complex level. It's 2 layers on top of each other and a side box with a giant.
>>746924358>>90% of it is dead ends where you collect mcguffins and the actual route is a vertical line,That's literally what the Ringed City is but worse, shitposter
>>746927924You can get to Grave of Saints from Majula or Doors of Pharros.
>>746927967>separates things that are clearly not meant to be separatedElaborate
>>746928093>You can get to Grave of Saints from MajulaYesor Doors of Pharros.No, you can't
>>746919932As if DS1 and 2 aren't known for their tedious levels lmao. That's basically a series staple
>>746928201Beating the dog boss leads you somewhere that isn't Brightstone Cove Tseldora
>>746928210A series staple was sequence breaking for your build's gear. Ds3 was the first one that was like "just play the game you'll get your gear eventually"like yeah, thanks nigga, I didn't want to be an OP mage from the start anyway
>>746928248Beating the rat dog boss is a dead end. You have to go back out to the beginning bonfire to where doors of pharros branches to bright stone cove
DS1 and DeS are the only real souls games.Everything that came after was just Fromsoft misunderstanding what people liked. Just like every other shitty clone.BB is this worst though. This is where the rollslop truly began.Gay retards will tell you it's the best.
>>746928412no its not
>>746928487Yeah nigga it is find me a single wiki entry or video that supports your claim
