Carnage mode does in fact have HP bloat, among other issues. It's just not a well designed hard mode. Each issen in oni mode does a few percent of a boss's health.
oni issens are not full damage because it's much easier to do in oni mode IIRC
>>747535127>lurking nexus forums to find people talking about redditYou should stick to those sites.
>>747534839in the other thread, it was suggested that the bosses have an increased skill set instead. to be honest, i don't think that's such a great idea. first off, the damage dealt was pitiful. most bosses could be defeated in 1-2 tries. if they had an increased skill set, what that would mean is that they'd replace existing moves that they would have done while still remaining as fragile. you'd be facing a slightly altered boss on the same difficulty. adding new skills is cool and all, but it'd have to be on top of increased damage/more hp so they could actually use the new moves
>>747535313What about changing the mechanics of some of the bosses attacks then? Different moves become deflect only, the boss loses one of his weakspots (Nue tail no longer removable for example) instead, boss uses a particular move more often. Things like that.
>>747535313>what that would mean is that they'd replace existing moves that they would have done while still remaining as fragile.It means they're more fun to fight and taking longer to learn. That's far better than HP bloat.
>>747535524it could work. as long as it avoids too much confusion but would take more fine tuning on capcom's end>>747535659it'd be more fun but again, it's a slightly altered boss. they use 1-2 new moves, the player is surprised and tanks the damage, then understands how to defend against it next time they're used. this is easily accomplished in the same fight in "action + extra" difficulty, where they've already beaten action difficulty. is it representative of "carnage" mode? opinions may vary
>>747536253>then understands how to defend against it next time they're used.You say this like it's going to be 2 moves that are one and done and then easily countered and never used for mixups.
>>747534839meanwhile Dawnwalkers hardest mode actually LOWERS enemy HP, you just need to be extremely good at blocking directionals
This guy is really fun to fight.
>>747536638this looks like ai
>>747536405i wouldn't say it's one and done but i expect a fairness. for example, i wouldn't expect two moves to have the same starting motion but results in two different mandatory ways to defend against. considering action mode hp, i would still believe it's possible for each boss to only pull off a single unique move only once anyway though. that's just what i feel, you're free to believe differently
>>747536772Action mode HP isn't nearly as low as you think it is. If you want to pretend that's the case, then post a webm of you issening a boss to death on action level in a couple minutes before it can really show off its moveset.
>>747536946i'm too lazy for that but imagine this. in action mode, i pull off oni mode twice. from just oni mode issens, that's about half hp. i believe the boss could pull off each move once, and that's with the extended moveset. it'd be hard pressed to pull off each move twice. my estimate may be off, but i don't believe it's by that much. do you want to accuse me of being a filthy liar?
Going to address these two things from the last thread.>that's where you're wrong here. if you take more damage, you die faster. you have less of a window to recover. your heals are essentially less effective. it's more challenging because it's testing your endurance and ability to maintain focus. you should acknowledge your omission here and admit you didn't state the full truthLook man, I did talk about it.>If you fail your Simon Says minigame twice too close together, go back 10 minutes. It's just "can you lock in for 15 minutes"Realistically, what I mean is that the strategy is exactly the same. This is the issue, all of the things you're talking about don't change the strategy at all, they change the precision of your execution. I will concede that in certain games, some bigger numbers can have an impact. FFT: IC Tactician mode is a simple 30% incoming/outgoing damage, but the implication in that game is much different. If you can't one shot enemies, then they remain a threat, it makes utility classes like Oracle and White Mage far more useful to debuff enemies. The strategy changes. Or even something as bloated as NG+7 Malenia in Elden Ring. You can get away with bullgoat wildstrikes lifesteal in NG, two charged attacks poise breaks, or frost pot to deal with Waterfowl, but you have to adjust how you approach the fight different because of those damage numbers. Not my favorite example, but the point being is you can't do the same thing, you have to adjust and try different things.In most cases, I stand by number bloat is lazy and retarded game design, but there are exceptions. Onimusha Carnage mode is not one of them. There is nothing different to try in, you follow the combat flowchart.
>>747537167>do you want to accuse me of being a filthy liar?I explicitly did that. You're free to believe whatever your want, but you're wrong and if you can't prove it, you're not going to convince anyone. You might want some more health, but late game bosses didn't really need it, and Carnage mode bosses are just bloated.
>>747537213>Honestly, all this complaining might be why Capcom locked Carnage behind a whole playthrough that serves almost as a tutorial. They probably wanted to avoid people eating shit and getting turbo angry at the game.Despite how much I hated Carnage, it should have been open from the beginning. The game runs on the novelty of the combat system and the kino moments in the story. The fact that you lose all of the equipment you grinded for and are told to do the same boring side quests that you already did for marginal stat increases are the shitshow that is Eastern Kyoto is part of the problem. You skip every encounter in Carnage with Oni mode, skip all cutscene and go from boss to boss. A first time playthrough on carnage would have mitigated some of that repetition and give you things to look forward to, story, unlocks, oni armanents. The combat system does not have enough depth/variety to be fun for two playthroughs in my opinion.
>>747537312well it's a a he said they said thing. you sure as didn't convince me either. an extended move set while retaining action mode values is completely silly to me to be "carnage" mode to me. if i beat action mode already, and i'm expecting two new moves per boss, that wouldn't be much of a challenge to me, personally
>>747536638Holy copy of IshinChinese levels of plagiarism
>>747536442Dawnwalker on duelist was such a breath of fresh air. I didn't like the gameplay much at first but immediately loved it when I swapped to that difficulty. Enemies more aggressive but die faster. Wish more games did this.
>>747537213>Look man, I did talk about iti think i said what i said because you said something along the lines of "all that changed is that bosses take longer to defeat". that just simply was not correct. that only accounts for hp bloat, not increased damage.>If you fail your Simon Says minigame twice too close together, go back 10 minutes. It's just "can you lock in for 15 minutes"i missed this but that's just part of endurance. can you do 10 pullups? 50 pullups? 100? i agree it's lazy but it is still an increase in difficulty. you don't have to like it. is it retarded? i don't think so as its pretty standard fare as you pointed out. maybe they could've done what dawnwalker did?
>>747537592>an extended move set while retaining action mode values is completely silly to me to be "carnage" mode to me.Only retards with no sense of game design like stat bloat over mechanical changes for hard mode. This is a well established and objective fact.
>>747539107i welcome any challenge. i would actually prefer all increased damage, more hp bloat, and mechanical changes. unlike a certain someone that would cry over just stat bloat. you're trying too hard to insult people
accidental ranged issen is one of my favorite things
>>747539359>you're trying too hard to insult peopleThere's no trying needed. You insult yourself by saying you like stat bloat. There's a reason everyone shits on it, and that reason is that only actual retards think tedium is a fun challenge.
>>747539980i don't know what to say then. keep seething? i'm sorry? just fuck off already if you're going to ignore all my previous talking points just to fixate on stat bloat to call someone a retard
>>747540204>just fuck off already if you're going to ignore all my previous talking points just to fixate on stat bloat to call someone a retardYou're free to fuck off if you're stupid enough to pretend that stat bloat is good, you're too shit at the game to post a webm of what you claim happens, and your "point" is that it's impossible to add moves or mechanics that aren't quick one and dones. You said the bosses die too quickly, you got called a liar, you posted no proof. There's nothing to argue. If you don't post proof I won't reply again, but I know you will because you're an angry idiot that needs to pretend you made a real argument here.
>>747540415i just wanted to have fun to discuss the game. i already beat it a while ago. i was actually trying to post humor while other anons were insulting you. maybe i shouldn't have said what i was thinking out loud? i'm lazy because i don't feel like opening up the game again. my estimations are rough because i haven't touched the game since. can you stop sperging and give it a rest already?
