>Use my human reflexes to avoid a clearly telegraphed attack and deliberately roll once>Enemy delays it in the most artificial and unnatural way imaginable and shaves off most of my healthbar with a single hit>"Just stop panicrolling"This is the worst action game of all time
>>747624014Literally just stop panic rolling
>>747624014If you can't time your rolls properly why not try blocking
>>747624014I've been saying that fromslop keep on artificially pumping the difficulty but y'all keep glazing their game for no reason
>>747624014OP IS STUCK ON MARGIT HAHAHAHAFILTERED BY THE FIRST ACTUAL BOSSIN THE SOULSLIKE EVERYONE AND THEIR GRANDMA BEAT ALREADY
>>747624014Pay closer attention and stop panic rolling. You basically admit to rolling as a reflex instead of as a deliberate action. >>747624140>Artificially pumping the difficultyAs opposed to what? Having the game spontaneously evolve difficulty on its own? How do you 'naturally' make a game harder? All games are artificial,, silly.
>>747624352It's not a panic roll if I dodge at the exact time an enemy would attack but they delay the attack (including by hanging in the air for no explicable reason). It's an extremely cheap meta gotcha that no suspension of disbelief can salvage.
>>747624014>shaves off most of my healthbar with a single hitthis is the worst part of it for me. I'm ok with learning odd timings, but the cost of learning is a huge tedious waste of time when you die in two hits to the smallest of attacks. The juice isn't worth the squeeze
>>747624014It's amazing how Miyahacki made his magnum opus in Sekiro and then went on to make this putrid dogshit of a game immediately after
>>747624535Yeah it is. You didn't dodge when you saw the attack coming, you dodged when you assumed the attack would happen. Stop panic rolling. >meta gotchaDevs SHOULD toy with the expectations of the player. Everyone's been playing Dark Souls for over a decade. Legacy skill carries over.
>>747625518yeah consider my expectations toyed with for expecting a good game
>>747624014>clearly telegraphed attackapparently not. you read the telegraphed windup, not the attack.
>>747624535>the exact time an enemy would attackthen it isn't the exact time.>they delay the attackso delay your dodge.
>>747625115Game gives you armor, talismans and buffs tank through any boss in the game but you refuse to use them.
>>747625759>>747625812If you want me to memorize the moveset instead of legitimately reacting to stuff just say so, no need to be dishonest.>just react to the lightspeed motion of a sword going down lol what do you mean in every other game in existence you react to windups?>>747625883yeah i also refuse to use summons, fuck me right?
>>747625953>Bosses do too much damage>But I will refuse to wear armor so I can bitch about being oppressed by evil game designKek
>>747624014Elden Ring is one of those games where you can tell the developers were trying desperately to make difficult for the sake of it. There's harder games that aren't nearly as dishonest as all the input-reading, the cartoonish animations, and the shit camera.
>>747625953>Rellana kicking my ass>I suck at the game>Don't want to take off my bloodline robe+albinauric mask fashion>Use iron jar aromatic and spam NIHIL>Able to facetank the boss and kill her with zero skill involvedYou're actually a niggerape
>Dark Souls 3 is bad because it's 'rollslop', the roll is overpowered and it's too good on dodging enemy attacks>Elden Ring is also bad because enemies use attacks that are too difficult to dodge by rollingMake it make sense
>>747624014It drives me insane that we've gotten to a point where the animations don't even look correct anymore because they have to incorporate all of these stupid roll-catch timings.
>>747626023No the players are desperately making their lives difficult for the sake of it. It's a game that can be beaten by spamming jump R2 but retards insist on roll spam because they got Pavloved by dark souls 3. The same morons who will refuse to use spirit summons but happily use palicos.
>>747626023>you can tell the developers were trying desperately to make difficult for the sake of it. And that's a good thing. The best difficulty for a sequel is one that would be considered hard by someone who 100-percented the last game.
>>747626102nice blogpost, i don't care about your ebin cheese tactics though faggot>>747626104dark souls 3 is bad because it started the trend of enemies doing endless combos, which i can only guess they tried to balance by turning it into a rollfest. it looks tame in comparison to elden ring nowadays though>>747626147niggerbabble>>747626172100-percenting souls games never comes down to their difficulty but instead the grind for specific materials and questline knowledge
>did a bloodborne run recently >one-shot almost everything>start ER run>get assraped by margaret's weird-ass attack timings
>>747624014>>747624140>>747624535>>747625236>>747626023>>747626294Stop panic rolling.
>>747625953you want to press a button and be invincible without timing it>I did time itno you didn't and you'll never git gud until you can admit that.
ER is the best for sword and board in the soupsbornekino series sorry if you insist on rollslopping like a faggot then whining about it.
>still shitting your pants and crying about Margit four(4) years laterYou are genuinely mentally ill and/or unironically retarded and you need to get a grip
>>747626370This works because the boss has no inputs to read and the AI doesn't do anything.
>>747626465it's not just margit it's every enemy in the game, just because you can two-tap them with your OP weapon you found by reading off the wiki doesn't mean they're not terribly designed
>>747626252>dark souls 3 is bad because it started the trend of enemies doing endless combosJust avoid them and hit when they stop dude.
>>747624014100% lack-of-skill issueGITGUDYOUWHINYFAGIT
>>747626370DELETE THIS
>>747624535Do you swing the bat on the pitchers wind up or throw?
>>747626508this kills the elden shill
>>747626147Correct. I said desperately trying, not succeeding. Reduvia alone cleaves Margin's health down with virtually no effort. The game balance is so poor that From struggled to make it work by overtuning the boss's size and mobility, and largely failed, which is why they're more honest and more difficult games out there. Fromdrones just want to argue.
Love seeing noobs get filtered. Especially by Elden Ring. Never gets old.
>>747624014Git gud.
>>747626508>>747626625>no inputs to readCircle to run, R1 and L2 were used several times in the webm
>wow people are just spam rolling to deal with everything>we should do something about it>give enemies aggressive tracking>add attack delay and roll catch moves to make rolling less efficient>add guard counters>add jumping to avoid ground damage and low attacks>add powerful shield skills>We did it Mitsubishi! We stopped the roll slop!>OMG WTF THIS IS ARTIFICIAL DIFFICULTY FUK U FROMSOFT I HATE YOU
>>747624352>rolling as a reflexThat's exactly how a game should be designed, yes.
>>747626695No one gets filtered by this game, women playing with their toes have beaten it on accident.
>>747626370holy shit OP got utterly raped, just like in his childhood
>>747626715The boss completely stops responding once the menu gets opened. You can see as he is strafing that the boss is still following him, as soon as the menu is open, the boss loses the input reads.I enjoyed elden ring, but holy shit the input reading made it a 7/10 instead of a 9/10.
>>747626728please understand he needs validation for beating (what he thinks is) a hard game and any and all criticism is just noobs lol
>>747626715You already know what he means and why it works the way it does, don't try to play stupid and snide at the same time. The game is 4 years old the AI isn't fooling anyone into thinking it's good anymore.
>>747626807>>747626871>The boss completely stops responding once the menu gets opened.Literal lie.Margit literally creates spacing and gets away from you after the heavy wind up attack, that's HOW easy he is and you got gaped by that. Be ashamed.
>troons defending a shit game with "git gud" and "skill issue"holy... I think elden ring really is dark souls 2 2
>>747626926He will cancel into a knife attack at the end of any combo on his left size, then leap back, if there's an input. Just pack it up Fromdrone, you're years too late to try and be purposefully stupid, especially this boss.
>>747624014>mfw I beat Margit at a starting level with a level 1 Uchigatana.
>>747626370Retards legit got filtered by this? No fucking way
>>747626104darksouls 3 does the same shit just less egregious because all of the bosses that do are in the second half of the game.
>>747624014just block lol
>>747624014>>747626370it's insane how hard /v/ermin shitters got exposed by margitgod fucking bless him
>>747626716I wish the jump was actually consistent, but there's tons of overheads like lighting strikes that is dodges, and tones of ground effects like the sentinel's lighting waves that it doesn't. Also the fact that 99% of the lunging thrusts in this game will just magnet up into you make it a waste too.Guard counters also suck dick for 90% of the weapons.
>>747626718No depth. There should be feints. An opponent in a real fight wouldn't blatantly telegraph their attacks, they'd faint to catch you off guard.
>>747627082Fighting Dancer at SLVL1 is one of the most fun things in the game though.
>>747627226An opponent in a real fight would hold his weapon up for long because i'd instantly stab them in the gut, you don't know shit
>>747627008Congrats on having a 95+ IQ, unlike OP's subsaharan brain
>>747627258Dance's brain dead moveset is probably why ER bosses work the way they do. It was funny fighting her in Nightreign and she's just completely ineffective because of how absurd even normal fights are in ER compared to DS3, she just doesn't have the ability to reset the fight constantly with a jump back like ER's bosses do, so she ends up taking every hit and then getting stunned to death.
A good game should be impossible to blindly beat for a person of average skill.
>>747627347But what if they were an ogre or some kind of zombie?
>>747627226There's no feints in ER, the enemy just stands there and takes hits, then swings earlier or later depending on input reading and position to the player.
>>747627359>every game has to be memorization slop>>747627391>ogreno need for sophisticated shit like feints if they're gonna be immune to gut stabs>zombieno mental capacity for feints. same for all the other semi-sentient enemy types
>>747627356>Dancer is super easy after you've had a decade of experience fighting her and then gang up on her with three other peopleWow
>>747624014>plays rollslop game>complains about game having shitty rollingYou did this to yourself
>>747627459Intelligent zombie. Wearing full plate.
>>747626370OH NO NO NO NO
>>747625518>when you assumed the attack would happenThe attack should happen when i expect it to. That means it adheres to normal human perception, as it should. >devs should toy with expections >legacy skillsNo. Demon's Souls and Dark Souls 1 were fine. There was never a reason to increase complexity or difficulty. All soulslikes should be like them.
>>747627552>The attack should happen when i expect it to. Lol
>>747627462She wasn't that hard to begin with because her gangly ass was too big to land hits consistently, which is probably why FROM has done everything in their power to arms race their own game design and makes everything spin on a pin-point perfect top now.
>>747625759Many attacks in Elden Ring happen faster than the standard human reaction time. They're literally impossible to react to.
>>747627552>The attack should happen when i expect it to.
>game adhering to normal human reflexes bad>game adhering to my estrogen-fueled basement memorization grind good
Ninja Gaiden 4 flopped.
>>747626009Bosses still do too much damage when you wear the highest defense armor in the game.
>>747627616you are just old lol
>>747627552>The attack should happen when i expect it to.there's actually no fucking way you wrote that with a straight facethese threads cannot be real
>>747626172No. The best difficulty for a sequel is exactly the same as the game before.
>>747624014>this is who is constantly complaining about Elden Ring
>>747624014This is how every conversations go with you scrubs.>This game is bullshit, the bosses delay their attacks so they hit me at the end of my rolls>Then stop rolling. Use any other defensive option>NO! NO NO NO NO NO! YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND! ROLLING IS THE BEST AND ONLY VIABLE OPTION! YOU NEED TO ROLL FOR EVERYTHING! ROLL MEANS YOU DON'T TAKE DAMAGE! YOU SHOULD ALWAYS ROLL AND R1, AND MAYBE R1 TWICE! BUT NEVER THRICE BECAUSE YOU NEED TO ROOOOOOOOOOLLLLL AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN! DON'T FUCKING TELL ME TO GIT GUD! I ALREADY NOW HOW TO ROLL! AND IF ROLL IS NOT THE BEST OPTION IN SOME VERY SPECIFIC CASE THEN IT IS THE GAMES FAULT FOR NOT GIVING ME ANY INDICATOR THAT I COULD JUMP OR BLOCK OR POSITION! AND DON'T GET ME STARTED ON POSTURE BREAK! THEY ARE THE MOST NEEDLESS MECHANIC BECAUSE I CAN JUST ROLL INSTEAD! THIS GAME SUCKS BECAUSE WHEN I DO THE ABSOLUTELY BEST THING I COULD DO I LOSE! THERE IS LITERALLY NO POINT ON NOT ROLLING ALL THE TIME AND IT IS THE GAME'S FAULT FOR NOT LETTING ME WIN!!!It is all so tiresome.
>>747627696No this isn't dark souls 2 where armor does nothing. And on top of that you have opaline hardtear, crab and talismans.
>>747627820In ER, the difference between having no armor and having full armor on 40 vigor is dying in 3 hits instead of 2 hits.
>>747624014No you see, Morgott holding his stupid cane slam attack for 10 seconds is extremly realistic and not clunky nonsense at all
>>747627820>No this isn't dark souls 2 where armor does nothing.It's worse. The only real sources of actual damage mitigation are the Dragoncrest Greatshield talisman and the Ritual shield talisman, the rest of the actual damage mitigation sources are temporary buffs like perfume and shrimp. Armor in souls games has never been more worthless.
>>747627776this notion that each next installment in a game series should be harder than the previous one wasn't a thing in the general consciousness until the souls series became popular among retards
>>747626542You are crying and shitting your pants over mechanics people figured out 14 years ago
>>747627776No, each sequel should increase in difficulty to match the increasing skill and experience of the playerbase. >>747627974Gradius
>>747627995>mechanics people figured out 14 years agoyou mean input reading? everyone hated the cheap input-reading fighting game bosses for more than 14 years
>>747626370>STILL crying over getting filtered by Margit, the tutorial bossYou can't make this up folks
>>747627226>There should be feintsNo.>muh realismNever made for a good game.
>>747626542I beat the game with Vagabond starting equipment only. Vanilla halberd, two-handed.
>>747624014>I thought I was invincible, but the game outsmarted me. Should I try a different strategy?>No, the game must be shit.
>>747628053>NOOOOOOOOO NOOOOOOO IT'S NOT FAIR EVERYONE WHO BEAT THE GAME WAS JUST CHEATINGYou are a clown and you're bad at video games, the sooner you admit it to yourself the less angry you'll be
>>747627359Terrible design.
>>747625759that's not a distinction in real games you retarded nigger. enemies don't stop their swing in the middle to bait you. it's unrealistic and kills the concept of telegraphing established in decades of video games. die.>>747624140saying>it's bad difficultywithout being able to describe it like op helps no one. you need to explain to plebs why they're stupid.
>>747625518>>747627552dont worry these guys just play on a different league of baseballhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1IFsL_ljFg
>I am Hoarah Loux, WARRIOR>watch me hang in the air>watch me change my direction mid air-dash>watch me expose my nutsack for 5 secondsthis game is a joke
>>747627820>do this retarded song and dance every time you fight a boss and activate 20 different buffsMaybe incoming damage should be well balanced at a baseline?
>>747627347So basically an opponent in real life would delay their attacks to trick you and then read your inputs if they see you getting too close. Got it.
>>747627974Making a game hard is easy, I just make the game kill you instantly every other second. Making a GOOD game is an entirely different matter from difficulty. A series should refine its mechanics to evolve its gameplay, not make it harder for the sake of it. Dark Souls is not a hard game in the first place and you're falling for marketing for believing that.
>>747627931Wrong. A basic knight set is 24% physical damage reduction which is more than the talisman but it also provides poise, damage reduction for elements and status. There's no diminishing returns so players should stack as much as possible anyway
>>747628314well fortunately they are
>>747628303>NOOOOOOO STOP ATTACKING ME I'M SUPPOSED TO BEAT YOU WITHOUT ANY EFFORT
>>747628343Yep. While on my way to Ball-Mart, I came upon a Golem and he did just that. Although I almost died, he did drop his Halberd, so it was worth it.
>>747628359Which also requires a fuckton of Endurance to maintain a light roll, which is far more important in many instances than poise. Fighting Malenia with light roll is basically easy mode vs fighting her with medium roll.
>>747628303>you've been playing this game for 100 hours and you've seen all kinds of magic, dragons and unicorns happening the whole time>clearly, I, the wrestler boss, will ignore all that and have realistic mechanics.
>>747628346You are transgender
strawman festival kind of thread
>>747628468just roll with it
>>747628468The game is more interesting with constantly shifting goalposts.
>>747628207>you need to explain to plebs why they're stupidtheir reading comprehension is too bad, they'll just reply with smug furry porn like this guy without understanding what they're responding to>>747628081>>747628174>>747628410
>>747628503>SCREEEEEE LOOK AT THESE WRONG OPINIONS, THE GAME SHOULD BE EASYlmao fuck off troon
>>747628442there's unrealistic and there's rotating your model in the middle of a "short" hop on an axis just to track me
Is ERR good?
>>747628653Only if you play cautiously.
>>747628683what do you mean
>>747624014>Have to adjust my split second superhuman reflexes to accommodate for the huge input delay on literally every movement in the gameI can feel myself getting more retarded the better I get at it
>>747626370The problem is this is entirely inconsistent within the game and even the same boss encounters themselves.You basically have to memorize every piece of frame data for every boss if you want to play like this, and only autists have the willpower to do such a thing over a single player game.
>>747624535>delay the attack (including by hanging in the air for no explicable reason)Not enough people call out this bullshit design.
>>747624014Allow me to educate you little sponge.If you want to dodge effectively, just delay your rolls by about a half second to a second, that's it.Literally just delay your rolls.I've literally just been running at people with StarFists with Bleed and power stance heavy attacking people with my big balls, dodging as required.Sometimes summon Wolves or Dung Eater to give breathing room.Usually beat bosses in 2 tries.Sometimes I use the Dragon Breath of Rot and just dodge while they slowly chip down and die, doesn't matter as long as it works.People are gonna call you a chump anyway unless you do some retarded meme shit like playing Level 1 Wretch the entire game, and even then they'll call you a chump, honkey, dweeb, honkey dweeb, dweeby honk, and chompsky honk because you didn't do it with fists.That's the final Blackpill, is that ultimately it doesn't matter. But it is sort of liberating in a way isn't it?
in the next fromsoft game enemies should use flashbangs to completely blind all the scrubs that got too comfortable panic seeing
>>747628653It's alright. Some design decisions like Rune Pieces (hidden collectibles that grand minor stats) are questionable.
>margit>margit>margetNobody in the thread said they were complaining about margit tho did they
>>747624014>getting filtered by Margit the Walkthrough
>>747629167surely not even the ER fanboys can defend the fucking tree spirits
>>747629167i've fought this boss many times in nightreign and i still don't understand what the fuck is going on with his moveset and the terrible camera doesn't help
>>747625518>You didn't dodge when you saw the attack comingThis isn't possible unless the attack is animated to clearly indicate when the attack is coming and you don't understand perception
>>747624014You are playing the game wrong, get a fucking shield and counter-parry the shit out of them.
>>747629167that shit was so fucking stupid lmao>dodge whenever the giant blob makes some kind of vaguely jerky movement>hit every other time until it's deadI'm a mega shitter and I don't think I've died more than one or two times to these retarded things
>>747628947Or you could just play the game like a normal person
>>747624014Its not an action game, its an rpg. Hope this helps
>>747629346it's an action rpg
>>747624014What SHOULD be the correct response to your opponent wildly chambering their jab is to beat them to the punch. But FromSlopware is too stupid, lazy, and incompetent to do anything but make every boss in the game completely unflinching nonsense instead of developing gameplay that doesn't insult the player's suspension of disbelief.
>>747627903So...50% more survivability?
>>747629346It's not even a little bit and RPG, it's just an action game.
>>747628653If you think enemy projectiles like arrows having super homing is good because it's hardcore.
>>747629563My $1 investment increased to $3.That is a 300% increase.Now I am rich.
>>747629528just use your charge attack bro just calculate their stance break meter in your head without any visual indicator bro and have it low enough for that precise moment bro
>>747624014I agree that delays in Elden Ring are overdone, and more importantly are poorly implemented in several cases, but feints are used in actual combat so the existence of delayed attacks isn't purely unrealistic.
>>747626416This. Greatshield is your best tool. One for physic one for magic, swap based on boss and you are set.
>>747624014It's... almost like... you're playing... a video game... Whoa!
>>747626023I don't fault the animations for being exaggerated and cartoonish. Most games with good combat do this at least a little. What I agree with you on more is that the animation reading (what it technically does instead of input reading, which has a similar effect since it reacts the instant the animation starts) and the camera issues really shouldn't be anywhere near as bad as they are.
>>747629832Medium shields are more broken. Parries as good as small shields or slap on barricade shield for greatshield tier hardness and stability but much lighter and with lower requirements.
did you guys know they added red versions of enemies to nightreign with even more hp and damage bloat to the point that everythign oneshots you in a game where you're constantly on the clock haha
>>747628947So stick with ball & gun games, normgroid.
>>747630038I will NOT play fortnite souls
>>747629743No, surviving 3 hits instead of 2 is a dramatic increase in survivability because it means you get 2 chances to heal instead of 1 chance. With the amount of Estus healing you're given this likely more than doubles your life expectancy because if you're eating 50% life per hit you are very likely to die before you run out of Estus
>>747630112still not as bad as ubisoft ring
>>747630178doubt
>>747630203it's elden ring's terrible enemies and bosses but without elden ring's terrible open world so it's technically better
>>747627780I don't get all the whining. I really don't like delayed attacks or rolling as a defense mechanism, so I don't play soulslikes. And thats it. Games have their target audience and in case of ER that doesn't me - and thats fine. Games that are made for everyone are substanceless AAA slop.
>>747630112>fortnite soulsKek, accurate
>>747629284I tried that on Malenia. I can parry perfectly but it does like no damage. I was running strength build though. Maybe it works better with dex.
>>747629346>>747629420Lawl, it's 99% action adventure and 1% RPG.
>>747624535Yeah shit like that sucks and is stupid its why I can't get into most argp games anymore. everyones been adopting the soulsslop in some way or another
>>747629753Aren't charge attacks completely worthless since they added jumping attacks? You only have to jump heavy with a colossal weapon and any boss is stunned in 3-4 hits. I got Mesmer's health down 70% just after the beginning of the fight by dodging the initial explosion and spamming jump attacks followed by a critical and another jump attack.
>>747630594There's plenty of recorded evidence of people stacking a million buffs and killing PCR in less than 10 melee hitsER is whatever you want it to be. It can be pure reactionslop, pure RPG, easy as fuck, hard as balls, it depends on what you're willing to use and how you want to play.
>>747629743Thats comparison only works if $1 is the total of the money you can/are willing to invest...
>>747630706Charge attacks have more hyper armor and damage, at the cost of obviously taking longer to execute.
>>747630616Even with all the weightlessness, budgetness and jankiness, I enjoyed the first Code Vein more than any soulslike that came out after devs started aping ER enemy design
>>747630706Standing charged heavies are still stronger than jumping heavies.>>747630767I feel though that jumping heavies have longer recovery. At least with heavy weapons.
>>747626871What does this mean, essentially a player gets punished for hitting buttons too quickly?
>>747630718How? Most buffs don't even stack.
>>747630010>slap on barricade shield for greatshield tier hardnessYeah but then I can't use my OP ordovis spin2win. Plus I really like the redmane GS's looks.
>>747628947>if you want to play like thisWell this boss is a tutorial for NPC summon signs you’re supposed to summon Roger and ring the bell for wolves to slaughter him
>>747630827That means a shitter is trying to make an excuse for his lack of skill by pretending he knows anything about AI programming (he doesn't).
>>747628023That's how a franchise gets alienated and killed off.Catering to the supersweats has always made everything worse and is the dumbest move companies always make.christ you people aren't human beings
>>747631018you didn't answer my question which makes you a brain dead fan boyDoes this game punish people for having fast reactions? Then it isnt a skill game.
>>747631195it is not a skill game. it is a memory trial and error game.
>>747631376Oh thats not fun in my ARPGSome of it sometimes is fun.If the entire gameplay loop is, basically>Time padding by making the player learn brand new XYZ every timeit sucks.
>>747631036It didn't. It's not DS3. Spells are strong. Skills are strong. Shields are strong. Deflect like it's sekiro. Rally like it's Bloodborne. Parries more universal. Shitters are only mad they can't roll slop as easily as before.
>>747631195Mashing the dodge button like a retard the moment you see the enemy twitch isn't having fast reactions, boy. Reaction implies you actually process what you see, and don't just produce a kneejerk response to a stimulus like an amoeba.
>>747631476translation:>You need to react to this specific enemy twitch in particular by memorizing its entire moveset by trial and error all while getting twoshot
>>747631584Yes exactly and as per my post >>747631417It should be a gimmick that is used sparingly, not a core aspect.
>>747631584>all while getting twoshotLevel Vigor. it's an RPG.
>>747624014It wouldn't even be that bad if 1. the attack part of the attack was reactable and/or 2. the length of the unnatural delay was consistent. As it is it's basically a coin flip and you're better off just hiding behind a shield, which is just boring. (So is rollspam, to be fair)
>>747624014shitty bait
>>747631615>just level adp bro>just level vigor brothe parallels...
>>747631676>play RPG>decide to do a self-imposed challenge that is not endorsed by the dev in any way and 100% your choice>wtf why game hard :(
>hurr durr stuck on MargitFuck you, he's not even bad. The most egregious example of delayed attacks is Radagon. The final fucking boss.
>>747629102>People are gonna call you a chump anyway unless you do some retarded meme shit like playing Level 1 Wretch the entire gameNobody actually cares that much, it's just shitposting. I genuinely think that people who complain about the boss being hard to survive just by mindlessly spamming roll should just play like you and pick highly effective build and summon what they need. Elden Ring is only hard if you want it to be, it's just as easy as other Souls games if you take advantage of everything the game gives you. It simultaneously gives immense satisfaction to us level 1 autismos and allows regular people to kill things in a few tries, which is good design in my book, even if some specific things are a bit off.
>>747627903This is a bad mindset. ER has a lot of talismans and buffs that stack nicely with armor. Medium armor with the dragoncrest shield talisman, you can get like 10 minutes after starting the game, will get you to around 30% damage negation, from there you can just keep raising it with higher defense armor and better rings. 50% base negation is possible late game. Throw in some buffs and you can survive full combos.
>>747632530>it's just shitpostingIt's /v/.Nobody here shitposts, it's all 100% genuine opinions and retardation.
>>747624014lol this game has been a disaster for gaming because it makes retards think they're smart when most of the bosses are just badly designed with worst movesets i have ever seen in a video game
>>747624014Feinting is like the most basic technique in sports you dumbfuck
>>747633387>everyone who plays this game is dumb but also it's too hard for me
>>747633590(You)
funny how all the obese basement dwelling retards become pros at sports when it's time to defend elden boring
>>747633439hey faggot is tanking a punch in the face without flinching after a failed feint a technique in sports too?
>>747633636
>>747633731Why do obese basement dwelling retards have better reaction times and hand-eye co-ordination than you?
>>747634050they don't, they've just memorized all of the movesets
>>747634086Why are your memorization skills below retard-level?
>>747634126they aren't, I just don't care like I used to because games aren't serious they are games
>>747634126They're not
>>747634159Maybe you should stick to easier, less demanding games then.
>>747634234>if you don't like it don't play it don't criticize the terrible design that hasn't been present since the genre's inception reeee
Elden ring is meant to punish roll slop dark souls players. It's a solved genre once you get good at utilizing roll iframes in typical dark souls games so they changed up the timings to fuck with everyone who has spent hundreds of hours doing the same roll slop and they want you to play differently. There are shields, summons, magic, etc. to play. They want you to stop rolling.>but that's not real dark soulsYeah and this isn't dark souls. That's the point. The game is designed to be tedious and annoying if you stubbornly don't want to stop rolling like a faggot for your precious iframes. But is still included because they know you wouldn't buy the game otherwise.
>>747634280>the terrible designThe 'terrible design' that obese retards have no problem with?
>>747634234a "demanding game" is one of those roblox nuclear reactor ones or a milsim that requires knowing at least 1/4th of a real life jet fighter manual just to start using it properly nevermind the skills of flying defending attackingknowing ~12 enemy variations and 12 bosses' attack variations and timing patterns is not demanding.I simply do not care.
>>747634317>roll slop on reaction bad>roll slop on memorization good>>747634346yes
>>747624014definition of gitgud skrub
>>747634364cared enough to post repeatedly in a thread for a game you don't care for?>>747634370You should aim to be better than obese retards
>>747634370If you want to roll through everything then yes, go fuck yourself. ER is the first game to be emphatic on actually using your brain and utilizing the items you find and the quest rewards you get. It's not perfect and the open world is awful but it's miles better than Dark Souls 3 or Sekiro.
>>747634429I try to, this is why I'm pointing out the flaws of a game said obese retards gobble up no problem>>747634482>using your brainkek this nigga really thinks hes smart for using mimic tear
>>747634540What is a game that you, a non-obese, non-retard, gobbles up? Assuming that you play games made in the last twenty years.
Elden mid...worst From game ever...
>>747634637frI've never played ER or any other souls game but the youtuber I follow said the same thing
>>747634620why do you care so much? i'm talking about a specific issue in a specific game
>>747634540The mimic tear is a crutch for retards, the souls equivalent of having to redesign your game after playtests go wrong.
>>747634693I want a frame of reference for a game in the same genre that you consider to be less flawed
>>747624014this game is easy as fuck lol. Even my 9 year old son beat this shit and he has down syndrome btw
I could forgive delayed attacks in ERbut the mmo health bars just kill the enjoyment for medude just do the very same thing for 15 minutes for a single boss dodge a 20 move unstoppable combo for 1 hit from the playeri finished this game back on my vanilla PS4 and there's no chance i will ever bother with this piece of shit ever again
>>747631036>That's how a franchise gets alienated and killed off.No, it's how a franchise evolves with the skills and experiences of its fanbase. Making each new entry the same level of difficulty gets you yearly sequelslop, it makes a series stagnate. It's what happened to Assassasin's Creed. Devs SHOULD cater to the ones who are the most passionate about their games
>>747634764There's way more flaws in ER that just the combat aspect. The only fromlike I would consider worse would probaby be ds2 because it's unpleasant to even look at and the 8-directional movement ruins it from the get go. And for the record I've complained about enemy design since DS3 where they'd just swing their shit non-stop. The big knights with shields were especially bad with their endless attack strings contrasted by their appearance.>>747634989>Devs SHOULD cater to the ones who are the most passionate about their gamesexplains the gender swap coffin and body type A/B
>>747624014Forgive them, zanzibart. They ran out of ways to fuck with the i-frame roll button that they gave you and refused to make new proper gameplay mechanics. Your answer to bosses with nigger delays and orbital lasers and infinitely flying around is to instead use some form of cheese shit to kill them as fast as possible before they can cheese YOU. Small indie japanese company that can't make new gameplay mechanics please understand. They are just now discovering modern fax machines.
>>747634989Listening to the loudest fans worked out so well for Final Fantasy.
>>747635086The sex swap coffin was just more customizable shit, same goes for a respec. Why do you think it's some political thing?
>>747635285is joke
>>747633439soulslike combat is the furthest you could get from real combat retard, try doing that shit irl and even hema fats would laugh you out of the ring
>>747629049Yeah it's fucking retarded but fromshills defend an undead guy holding his sword above his head for 4 seconds after taking his first 2 swings. Not to mention the 4-5 spastic combo every enemy does. The best boss in elden ring was the fire giant, it actually felt like a souls boss instead of shit like mogh. Fuck you niggers defending this shitty design
>port artorias but speed him up a bit and give him some grabs, no delayed bullshit>one of the hardest yet one of the most fun bosses in nightreign
>people who think good combat gameplay is comically slow windups and the inability to move while swinging a sword have somehow fed a multi billion dollar franchise>I'm somehow the bad person for calling it what it isStupid.
>>747624014Alright, I'm gonna say itI have never played Elden RIng, I just go to ER threads and say shit like:>LMAO, this game is EZ, just stop rolling retard, you have a jump button you fucking moron>Killed Radahn before the patchetc
>>747635784Post some examples of comically slow windups in ER.
>godfrey slows down in mid air when attackingKek
>Play the game with a two-hander and dodging>Have to memorize boss moves and their potential traps and you get maybe one or two actual openings to swing once, maybe twice if you are lucky>Use a shield>Hold L1 for the entirety of a bosses attack string (including the possible traps) and be ready to retaliate with a fast one-handed weapon immediately, meaning you barely have to engage with the mechanics of the bossPeople tend to give shit to people who summon, but the real "people" who definitely did not beat the game were those who hid behind a shield.
>>747636003Go watch some HEMA swordplay of people who are skilled and take a look at how fast real combat is.Then compare it to the bullshit in video games.
>>747636218Nice video game, nigger
>>747636149the fact that he used the elite knight set in the video pisses me off because none of the dark souls games had this issue it's an elden ring thing only
>>747636175You can attack while blocking if you're using a spear or a thrusting sword so you can punish a boss while turtling
>>747636003The axe wielding misbegotten comes to mind immediately. And yeah, it's not a boss, but it still counts for the inquiry.
>>747636246mate the whole gameplay is>input delay animation>input delay animation>input delay animationit feels horrible to anyone with a working brain
>>747624014i hate the input reading even more than the delayed attacks. the bosses attack literally instantly when you press a button
>>747636425>can't name a single video game that is betterwhy are you here?
>>747636298Yeah that is a very slow wind up, but it's a low tier enemy, and it's not even a fake-out.
Look at how guy in orange can move around while swinging the sword!Look! Look at it!https://youtu.be/U0IyAG-a1is&t=445
>>747635087it's the same in nightreign btw, you just curbstorm everything and level yourself up and loot good shit so that you have to interact with the enemies as little as possible, you even have ultimates that almost always interrupt/poisebreak enemies for even more gangrape. if you don't follow this plan all the bosses (and some regular enemies) have bullshit OHKOs, usually aoe, and you won't have a good time. oh and the lock on targeting somehow has gotten worse
>>747626370literally hangs in the air like in a fucking cartoon
>>747634317I feel like an imbecile for suffering through the entire game while rollspamming, refusing to use summons/mimics and weapon status effects. It would probably saved me 50% of time if I played as a normal person instead of that cretin "you didn't beat the game" version of an ideal /v/ player.
>>747627552The 3 posters couldn't read past the 2nd row. I knew ER retards were dumb but now I know they're also illiterate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj6JbgMdrZoERtards will defend this
I started looking at the elbow of the enemy when trying to parry and I've become a parry monster. No matter what kind of enemy it is, monster or humanoid, or how delayed the attack is, just press parry on reaction of seeing their elbow swing towards you.
After playing 10 hours of mortal shell 2 I can appreciate elden ring a lot more.
>>747637057most here who praise the game have probably not even played it lol. they just want to be called hardcore gamers and spam git gud
>>747624014All of this is just a result in the flanderization of the souls series. These games used to be full-fledged ARPG dungeon-crawlers, and bosses were just one particular aspect. Sometimes there were particularly notable/challenging bosses like maneaters or ornstein/smough, but there were plenty of times where the challenge came from the dungeon crawling itself. For example, when people talk about DS1's catacombs or blighttown, they're not talking about pinwheel and quelaag being challenging. The issue is, at some point, the focus shifted to boss fights. I'd say with DS3. It was like some telephone game where people were talking about the difficulty of DS1 and kept mentioning O&S, and so after a while people started to think that's what souls was always about, and then the devs started making the games in this manner as well, where they focused on boss fights and minimized the importance of level design. And because the focus became almost entirely on boss fights, they had to keep one-upping themselves with the bosses. How do you do that? You just make them more and more absurd to the point where we get shit like consort radahn.
>>747624014If Elden Ring didn't add roll catches to bosses and NPC then the game would be dog shit just like DS3. You would be able to spam rolls and dodge everything. This is one of the actual few good changes ER made. Only complete shitters bitch about it.
>>747628947No, you really don’t. All you have to do is look at their animation.
>>747631676Same as its always been. In DS1 it was "just level endurance bro"
>>747638491Elden shit is already purr anime garbage. Wonder where they'll go from here.
>>747624014>Use my human reflexes to avoid a clearly telegraphed attackTranslation: react to the windup and not the swing like a retarded sperg and get hit, and then proceed to cry about it on /v/.
>>747638491>LLM slop Lmao
>>747632576The problem with heavy armor in ER is that basically ALL OF IT is ugly as sin, and you still get poise-broken by basically all attacks unless wearing full bullgoats + wolf ring, and nothing less will do.
>>747627903So, insanely stronger?
>>747638623Translation translation: memorize the bosses' moveset with mind numbing unemployed trial and error or use summons to beat the game, proceed to deflect legitimate criticism with nonsense like reacting to unreactable attacks>>747638561instead you trivialize everything with built in summons. great
>>747638621based on nightreign/duskbloods, continuing to churn out lazy live service multiplayer slop. ideally I'd like to see them make a proper return to form to challenging level design full of harrowing challenging gauntlets, nut-clenching dungeon crawls, long distances between bonfires to increase the stakes, tough enemies that you can't just mindlessly run past, traps that punish players who don't take things slow and observe their surroundings, environmental puzzles, etc. But I seriously doubt that will happen. ER sold fucktons because it went with the open-world meme design. I don't see them going back to tight level design.
>>747626370damn OP got BTFO
>>747638819>criticism Elden ring is widely considered one of if not the absolute best games of all time. The only one deflecting criticism here is you. You are extremely bad at both video games and internet arguments and do not attempt to learn or improve.
>>747638887>LLM dogshit Yeah no wonder this site is dead as shit nowadays
>>747638621If I see the same enemy design in the next fromsoft game I'll be skipping it entirely. Maybe I'll cheese it with summons if the pvp is functional and good (which i doubt)>>747626370>floats up like a helium balloonis this the fruits of outsourcing stuff to india?
>>747637630You got laughed at like the retarded baboon you are, hours later you're samefagging and seething about it. Embarrassing.
>>747624352>As opposed to what? Having the game spontaneously evolve difficulty on its own?As opposed to developing a combat system that allows for a greater challenge in more compelling ways. In ER From is cheating the edge of the hard limitations of their souls combat formula. No matter how elevated you think you’re being by block countering or spamming weapon arts every attack has to be rollable and they ran out of interesting ways to make that possible 2 games ago. For the record, this isn’t even asking a lot since Sekiro and Armored core both already did it.
>>747638887Yeah there's no way they're going back. Damn.
>>747626370The webm that raped the discord.
>>747639349Huh? I'm not that anon. But I guess in your reduced little void of a brain you can't possibly comprehend that someone might actually agree with someone else and notice patterns. Anyway ho back to your through porky.
>>747626370what is this supposed to prove, again? that you can learn the boss's moveset? yeah we know, it's just not a fun way of progressing thru the game
>>747639456Every attack is factually not rollable that’s why ER has much better combat that dark souls, positioning matters much more
>>747638491Yeah this is true. I miss when beating the boss felt like completing the level instead of just fighting some random dude I found in some random place. And ER exacerbates that problem not just with the stakes of Marika but also by repeating bosses into copy paste areas. People bitch and moan about “cardio” but runbacks tie the person you’re killing to the place they control, and make it feel like you’re actually completing a level. They’re also a much needed consequence in a series that’s essentially eschewed all the other ones they used to have for failure.
>>747639456>As opposed to developing a combat system that allows for a greater challenge in more compelling ways.Yes they succeeded in doing that.
>>747639665>it's just not a fun way of progressing thru the gameYeah it is. Learning a difficult boss is rewarding and fun. I get disappointed if I beat a boss too quickly. I want to dance with the boss.
>>747639648>not that anon but
>>747639721Yes, anon, there’s AOEs in DS1 too. I guess i should have mentioned it since that left me open to some retard pointing it out as if that actually addresses my point.
>>747624014Dude, I've been around since the stone age of video games and let me tell you this one fact. Elden Ring is not a great game. It's pure quantity over quality. There is no quality to be found here. The original Demon's Souls was a cult hit. It did a lot of things right but it was a rough cut. Dark Souls was clearly unfinished in the second half. They blatantly copied and pasted enemies. They didn't even finish the level design. It is simply impossible for From Software to make a quality game on the scale of Elden Ring. The math just does not work and I'm so sick of children with zero actual gaming experience or taste defending this massive joke. Yes, I beat the game. I beat the game before you all got easy mode patches. You didn't beat the game and never will.
>>747639820there are ways of making challenging bosses without relying on cheap gimmicks. source: literally any other game with challenging bosses that isn't elden ring>>747639721positioning matters much less because every boss spams AoEs and has insane tracking on most of their attacks
I just miss some actual level design, you could get hints of it during the magic academy or the capital city but it's all such basic shit it feels like a first draft of a map.
>>747628947>It takes effort to get good therefore it bad
>>747626370based, bodied these scrubs
>put 40 points into health stat>wear super heavy armour>use flask to boost defense even more>take a single hit>lose like 70% of your healthNice "game"
>>747624014I had zero issue difficulty wise with this game but people who pretend this game wasn't obnoxious as fuck with the delayed attacks are huffing copium they're literally retarded>enemy goes to swing>halfway through swing pauses for 95 seconds>continues swing>stops and spins around backwards and swings again>stops halfway and breaks for teatimeIt made the game feel like shit and I'm tired of pretending it didn't. It didn't make it harder it just made it feel retarded but i suppose that's the natural next step when you're a team of hacks who's playerbase was trained to actually play the game you can't just make more game it would be steamrolled you have to add a bunch of gay gimmicks
>>747639961>Cheap gimmicksComplex attack patterns and rollcatches aren't gimmicks. Bed of Chaos is a gimmick. Yhorm the Giant is a gimmick. There are no gimmicks in the Margot fight, you just do it.
>>747640089>It didn't make it harderYeah it did.
>>747640089Feels like 75% of those posts are just intentionally baiting people. It's always one end of the extreme or the other.
>>747624014Get gud scrub. If you're just an idiot who wants to act on reflex go play a shooter.
>>747626542I had no problem beating the game with a flail and the bronze shield you find in limgrave maybe you should get good idk
>>747640265>using the most op shieldYou didn't beat the game.
>I beat all games I played therefore all games I played are perfectThat's some logic right there, flawless. Like me.
>>747640094>complex attack patternstranslation: obnoxious artificially delayed attacks>rollcatchestranslation: input reading
>>747640149this. i have major issues with the design of ER's bosses but people are too prideful for their own good. >its not hard, its just poorly designed! that's why i died 400 times! its hard, assholes. swallow your ego and make your point.
>>747640149I guess if you're retarded and can't just wait slightly longer. That's my point. It's actually not harder and that's why it's gay. >>747640173Not bait what's the other 'extreme' this game is hard and miyazaki is a legend goat
>>747640423not really when leveled summons can literally solo most bosses. player can cast spells from distance tooyou just want to feel like you're good at something
I remember when the game first came out someone kept posting a webm of dogs jumping all over the place input reading the glintstone pebbles cast in the completely opposite direction, that's when i knew this game was gonna be bad
>>747640423Intentionally misinterpreting what i said doesn't change what i said. It's not hard. I didn't die 400 times either that's your own experience. If you think it's hard that's fine. I don't. I think it was lazy
>>747640508>you just want to feel like you're good at somethingthat would be you for pretending like you steamrolled a game that's very obviously more difficult than average. take it up with the people bitching>>747640613i wasn't quoting you, dummy.
>>747624014Play Onimusha, its an action game centered around you doing cool things and feeling powerful, stop torturing yourself with these ball bustingly difficult games that drain your virility and force you into looking up guides online, come home
>>747640676the game is not that difficult when some players have beat even the hardest boss at level 1
>>747640827Refund reason: It's not fun.
>>747640827>action game centered around you doing cool things and feeling powerfulOnimusha WotS is a soulslike parry slop though. And I love it.
>>747640839i watched someone punch the fire giant to death. it was extremely impressive but your it means nothing to your point. popular games will have challenge runs regardless of their difficulty.
>>747640827I liked all of onimusha 1 except for the shitty timed slide puzzle. Didn't like onimusha 2 becauseof the change in the game's atmosphere. The terrible camera in the centaur(?) boss fight in some illusory forest made me drop it entirely but i would've dropped it either way.
Yeah it’s dogshit. Now you know why no one trusts Reddit’s opinions
>>747629167You have a point there. Truly garbage anti-fun enemies to fight regardless of what kind of build you run. Several of them being in enclosed spaces where you're fighting the camera is just the cherry on top of the shit cake.
>>747631615Endgame bosses twoshot you with 60 vig and the highest defense armor in the game.
>>747640413>artificially delayed attacksI don't think you know what the word artificial means.
>>747641413They don't thoughMaybe you should try playing games before critiquing them
>>747634482Build commitment is a good thing and all rpgs should enforce it heavily. Playing a greatsword build and then equipping a shield and different armor for a specific boss, jack of all trades faggotry, is the most subhuman shit you can do.
>>747626370There's no such thing as not ''panic rolling'' when you're learning a boss since their moves are designed to be unreadable your first time. Just look at the way he hovers in the air and the comically long delayed swing for fuck's sake lmao>posts of webm of himself after he's beaten the game 25 times and memorized every attackYeah retard no one is saying Elden Ring is literally unbeatable or something. Yes, you can get through it after you waste your time learning all the unintuitive, nonsensical delayed patterns and combos, but the point is the process itself isn't fun. Just pure rote memorization of purposefully weird attack timingshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mdICmKX94AA game based on cheap unpredictable shit like I Wanna Be The Boshy can be beaten if you keep bashing your head against it and memorize everything, you will learn it after enough attempts, that doesn't mean it's particularly well designed or enjoyable to do so>>747626575>>747626780>>747627031>>747627172You are so fucking stupid
>Start Elden Ring>Always play Souls games with a pure melee build>'I'm gonna try a caster, fuck it. I don't care if it's op.'>Doesn't feel satisfying to snipe encounters with magic. >Feels like I cheated myself if I kill a boss at distance>I end up playing the same melee character as always, just with weapons that scale with INTI am a two trick pony and those two tricks are 'Roll' and 'Hit With Weapon'. Fuck, I might be autistic.
>>747641720That will just make everyone seek out the most optimized meta builds though. Complaining about muh respec in a >100 hour long game with thousands of spells and weapons is genuine mental retardation and should have you lobotomized. Matosis was such a retarded mongoloid, holy fuck.
>>747641725>since their moves are designed to be unreadable your first time. Literally just pay attention. It's too hard for you, that doesn't mean it's too hard.
>>747641561I think having the enemy hang in mid air for a full second in anti-gravity is plenty artificial, and no this doesn't have anything to do with gravity magic
>>747634989I'm the most passionate From glazer and soulslike dickrider on the fucking planet, and Elden Ring is too hard, simple as. Demon's Souls and Dark Souls 1 is how difficult soulslikes should be.
>>747641871Videogames are artificial, silly.
>>747641831>Pay attention, dodge a string of attacks>Boss stops attacking, this must be an opening>SIKE! You thought it was safe to attack when I stop attacking? Take an extension of the combo that ONLY happens if you move in to attack at the fake-out!
>>747641923>Elden Ring is too hardIt should be harder actually. And invasions should happen while playing solo.
>>747624113>no replies
>>747642005>Boss stops attacking, this must be an openingYou got baited. Your fault. Always observe the boss thoroughly before choosing to attack. Observing and dodging without attacking when it's the first time you've seen a move is just common sense.
>>747624014>People are still complaining that Elden Ring was too hardholy shit lmao just summon a spirit ash for fuck sakes
>>747641831Ah yes, I'm sure that when you were fighting the bosses for the first time you knew that Margit would delay that specific swing for exactly 4 seconds before releasing it, same with every other weird delay or combo or mid-air-hovering because you have a special sixth sense that no one else has, you definitely didn't die to each boss and just memorize their attacks through trial and error like everyone that beat Elden RingOnce again I never said the issue with the game is that it's impossible, but my point went right over your head because you're too stupid
>>747641963is this bait or do we really have to go through the whole suspension of disbelief thing again
>>747624014By "stop panic rolling" they mean memorize the attack timings, because that's the only way to do these fights well. Using intuitive reactions like in an actual fight won't work, you have to study for the quiz.
>>747642046The levels should be harder, and yeah, invasions should happen to anyone with a rune active
>This is the worst action game of all timefucking underage who have never played more than 2 games in his life
>>747642151In other words it's unintuitive and unreadable, that's the point, especially when your own attacks cannot be canceled. It's pure rote memorization with nothing else to it, which isn't very enjoyable unless you're really simple brained
>>747624140>>747624014Wolverine is more your game
>>747642046>And invasions should happen while playing solo.You can't do it to our elden ring pros, bro. They'll find out that actually reading your opponent isn't the same as memorizing obnoxious boss patterns and pull their internet cable out.
>>747624014None of the bosses or enemies in the duskbloods network test did that gay shit so hopefully they're over it
>>747627616Play at 120+ FPS
>>747642626>In other words it's unintuitive and unreadableNo, you just didn't pay attention. Measure twice, cut once.
>NOOOOOOO I SHOULD HAVE INFINITE IFRAMES WHEN SPAMMING ROLL
>>747642678People who play Elden Ring a shitton are also better at the PvP, silly.
>>747624014i dont get it i unga bunga every souls game.... go as much strength as i can get the zwei equivalent, find armor that just lets me walk into attacks without staggering and bonk bonk bonk till its dead. if the enemies can kill me in 4 hits then fuck it so can i. why are people so ingrained to playing a certain way?
>taurus demon can accidentally fall off the stage with his short backwards hop with the right positioning>margit the nigger hops a mile away but is stopped from falling out by invisible wallsyawn
>>747624113I wish everything wasn't parry-focused now. Even Mortal Shell 2, whose predecessor was heavily focused on the "hardening" mechanic, is heavily focused on parrying now. Then you've got enemies that attack with no rhythm, have Gumby animations, and give you two frames to react or be punished by losing over 3/4 of your health. What happened to tanky builds, greatshields, and parrying being an OPTIONAL high risk/high reward system?
>>747624014Elden Ring is stuck with the same basic ass combat system From used since Demon Souls. This is the only lever they have to pull when it comes to difficulty.In DS3 it was only dancer and sullyvahn had the autistic delay shit iirc, they went full overdrive with this trial and error shit in ER and doubled down in the dlc.This is why Sekiro is so much better, player mobility and combat system are different so they could present new challenges without resorting to this cheap shit.
>>747642913You can just play Elden Ring with a great shield and tank everything.
>>747626104You can just make the dodge less good so enemies aren't cheating to hit you
>>747643093>CheatingYou are such a baby.
>>747642913Elden Ring has tanky builds though.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh8wLWkegUg
>>747643129
>>747643093for some reason people keep forgetting how rolls used to cost way more stamina back in the day, probably tourists
>>747642945Sekiro and Onimusha take the combat in the right direction with different types of enemy attacks and respective defensive options from the player. But then in turn those games have little to no exploration or memorable non-boss encounters.
>>747643290>different types of enemy attacks and respective defensive options from the playerCorrect, like elden ring.
>>747643290Those games also have only a single primary weapon
>>747643264dis nigga kept spinning a full 270 right up to the last frame of the attack but it's your fault for bad positioning or something
>>747642151
>>747642815No, it's unintuitive and unreadable by your own admission
>>747643264This >>747643396I guess Fromsoft forgot to add this SFX to highlight how the enemy tiptoes during the animation like a ballerina to have you in front of him at all times.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kT9DSMKWFtw
>>747642815Why are you pretending like you didn’t also get hit?
I really like how feints are done in the latest Onimusha. Slow attacks are consistently slow, fast attacks are consistently fast, experienced opponents like Sasaki and Yoshitsune can change their grip mid combo to fool you but it's articulated well and without the enemy hovering mid air for 10 seconds. Yoshitsune straight up has a cheeky unblockable feint where he starts the attack only to make a silly pose to fool you.
>>747643268People need to apologize to DaS2. When your rolls have a sizeable recovery window and take up a third of your stamina bar, you better make each one fucking count. Instead we have near infinite rolls and basically complete invulnerability while you're rollspamming and the bosses have to compensate by having more and more ridiculously over the top flashy wombo combo spam. Go back to rolls being costly, timing/spacing one precise dodge against one attack is way more satisfying than just mashing rollspam through bosses' 12 hit flurries
>>747643649Every time I got hit was my own fault and it was perfectly fair.
>>747624014I just put my shield up and then guard counter when they stop
next niggas are gonna pretend that the dancing lion's retarded flailing all over the place is actually good and you're dumb for not distinguising between 2 wiggles and 3 wiggles when he decides to tackle you with the speed of a fully accelerated truck from 0
>>747624014>be me>in a fight>im about to swing at this dude>he fucking drops and rolls on the floor like a spazzed border collie>punch him in the face as he’s getting up
>>747643691Sekiro did it too. Isshin and owl have some intentionally slow swings because they as characters are competent swordsmen and they’re trying to throw you off. Despite that, they can still be blocked on instinct if you’re paying attention because the animations are clear and the timing is crisp. If every third attack they had was the same it’d be irritating as fuck
>>747643072>>747643136I should've clarified I was bitching mostly about non-From Soulslikes, that's my bad. I platinumed every From game *except* Sekiro because it has the exact problems I complained about. It's so bizarre to me that so many games ape Sekiro's gameplay when 1) it didn't sell as well as the mainline Souls games (which have blocking options) and 2) it didn't review as well as many of them either.Yeah, parrying is cool, but Metal Gear did it better IMO.
>>747643803Especially when you can't even fucking tell what the boss is doing because of the fucking camera
>>747643810you don't decide to stop swinging after raising your weapon to its max height, those things are heavy and you want to drop them on the opponent's head asap once you've committed. but if i react to that, the average ER enemy just holds it up in place like it's a featherweight flyswatter all of a sudden
>>747643396>>747643396unironically fromslopware makes the worst soulslikes because enemies spin around mid animationshit design
>>747643917Blocking is gay, attacking is cool. Sekiro was boring
>>747624014He plays the roll slop game Here is your peak gameplay bro
>>747643883The best bosses in Nioh games do it too, like Yoshitsune who articulates his attacks extremely well but since he's a competent swordsman, he still overwhelms you with his dance like movesIt's funny how Yoshitsune is a top tier boss across 2 franchises
>abloo bloo bloo entire game is le delayed attacks>look inside>they got filtered by margitevery thread for eternity
>>747643917Fair enough. Sometimes I wonder if game developers make games punishing and cheap in order to artificially extend gameplay time and present metrics to investors as organic engagement and immersion. Spiritually no different from arcade games of old where input reading was used as a way to drain kids out of their quarters.
>>747643997The average ER boss is a 12 foot tall monsterman. They’re probably pretty strong.
>>747643997>average ER enemyname 5
>>747644304then why do other attacks with the same weapon have weight to them? it just doesn't add up hence feeling unnatural, artificial
>>747642945>complains about trial and error>segue way into glazing sekiroLMAO. as if sekiro doesnt have trial and error when it is known, primarily, for its boss fights. also pretending as if trial and error wasnt crucial to earlier souls games, lel. always hilarious to see shitposters talk about games they have never played before
>>747644367Souls went full anime at DS3, you’re not gonna get the HEMA experience you want out of a glowing knight with magic swords that stands 2 Bin Ladens tall.
>>747642945>player mobilityirrelevant in boss fights, which sekkro, and by extension ALL souls games, are known for. >combat systemtechnically and objectively less complex and intricate than elden ring by virtue of having only ONE weapon with ONE moveset. prosthetic tools are for the most gimmicky, though there are strong options such as firecrackers and umbrella (the latter playstyle being still viable and arguably refined further in elden ring). combat skills in that game are also, for the most part, gimmicky, and ashes of war is simply a much better system in comparison.
>>747624014
>>747644712DS3 had a meme about dual wielding ultra greatswords. It became less funny when the dlc added that as a weapon.
>>747644357margitmorgottfell omenmagma wyrmmagma wyrm makargreat wyrmgreat wyrm theodorix
>>747640038I seriously don't get it how people say "putting to many points into hp = didn't beat the game" when any boss attack is guaranteed to wipe out at least a third of your health at any given time.
>>747645756if you can survive 3 boss hits . you put too many points into hp for a first run
>>747626871kek nice turn based strategy game there fromtards>>747624014I guess this mechanic was a literal necessity given how they coded this kusoge
>>747642701Human can see more than 30 so it makes no difference
>>747640038Its especially unsatisfying because making max VIG effectively mandatory just takes away build variety. In old souls games you could make a vit-gouge build and play as a tank. That's not really a thing anymore because even squishy casters and flippy dexfags need to max VIG just to not get one-shot. By making it more or less a requirement on every build, its no longer optional, and that's just one less component that can go into build variety
>>747646689>even squishy casters and flippy dexfags need to max VIG just to not get one-shot. Or just use ritual shield talisman.
>>747629215I like them. Hated them at first, then I started understanding them. Now I can beat them easily with no danger to me.
what's wrong with input reading?
>>747627347You can do that in ER. Margit's staff telegraph is a huge damage window.
>>747624113OP fucking anally rekt
>>747647672It's not dependent on situation or context
>>747636682Demons Souls Dark Souls Dark Souls 2Dark Souls 3Sekiro Bloodborne Lies of PNiohNioh 2Nioh 3The Surge The Surge 2Lords of the FallenMortal ShellMortal Shell 2Another Crab's TreasureKhazan
>>747638372Exact opposite for me. Played Mortal Shell 2 for 60 hours and now i hate ER even more than i already did.
>>747636260lol, artorias did delayed attacks and I would die to it. smough would do that stupid thing where they delay the hammer and start running it through the ground before flipping it through the player! there's probably some other monsters too who did it but can't remember. usually enemies with heavy weapons.
>>747649008>Played Mortal Shell 2 for 60 hoursMy condolensces
>>747625115It's built for 12-year-olds who have nothing but time on their hands. I probably would have loved it at that age too.
It's been 4 years and these lobotomy patients keep complaining about the same non issues.
>>747625883>60 vig in full armor>level 14 skibidi>vow, ritual shield, black flame, bubble all stacked>that retard on a hog somehow oneshots me with a kick despite everything, at full health Sometimes the game is just bugged.
>>747624014delayed attack are pure canceryou have bosses casually use anti gravity power to float in air and wait to finish a blow to fuck up your timingturns what should be an action game into pure memorization
>>747652202Lmao skill issue.
I think you guys are a little tsundere towards elden ring.
>>747624014>>Use my subhuman reflexes to avoid a clearly telegraphed attack and deliberately roll oncefixed.you are suppose to roll when the enemy brings the weapon down not when they start raising it up, dumbass.
>>747626370>boss casually floats in air>boss ai is shit>boss delays swingthis game is so garbage, and this vid shows whyits just autists playing it 20x times and memorizing the attacks, pure speed runner troon behavior
>>747642691delayed attacks have been a thing since demons souls. only retarded tourists cry about it. Its like an endless source of laughs watching morons play the games for the first time then bitching and moaning that their panic rolling didnt work.
>>747652858complaining about attack animations is for scrubs. You can learn to dodge any animation so that means absolutely any animation is fine, the developer is never at fault
>>747624014Yes just stop panic rolling. You know he delays the attack. What you are doing is text book panic rolling.
>>747641725>the point is the process itself isn't fun. Just pure rote memorization of purposefully weird attack timingsthis is what the from drones in this thread have trouble understanding
>>747641923ER is easier than BB wtf
>>747624014>My brain is so shit it can't adapt to delays and I can't accept this fact so I'll call it artificial difficultyThe cope some people come up with is rich.
