Is not a real terminology to describe video games. It's gibberish. Nobody said it at the the release times of Deus Ex, System Shock or Thief either. It actually more commonly appeared around the time of youtube essayists regardless of it's origins.
>>747628747Brainlet take
>>747628809Zelda Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom plays nothing like Deus Ex.Gone Home plays nothing like Thief. Cruelty Squad is not a good video game.Cut this nonsense out immediately.
No one used "diagetic" or "ludonarrative dissonance" either, but then Ebert gave an obvious, milquetoast boomer take on the industry and 20 year old millennials collectively shat their pants and cried and pissed themselves because a respected, famous, and successful man correctly informed them that games are for kids and manchildren and will never be as important as they need them to be in order for them to feel like they didn't spend literal decades wasting their lives.
>>747629056Nobody used the term 'movement shooter' either until recent times and i think it's just peoples inability to describe video games successfully. Was Brink 2011 or Titanfall the origins? technically Tribes back in the 90s should have been a movement shooter by definition.However as stupid as 'movement shooter' is you can still kind of interpret the idea and what people are expecting by playing a game that was labeled it. Immersive Sim is so far out there it belongs in the trash even compared to the silliest labels that exist.
>>747628747I hate how that term is ruined by Slavniggers who think that the implication means implanting “realism” into video games.No wonder Hitler hated them even more the Jews.
>>747629390What do you mean? i don't think it's a coherent grouping philosophy to begin with since emergent gameplay is just too loose to put under an umbrella. That's the fundamental flaw of it. The real smoke screen is that this terminology is responsible for amateur indie developers to hock their second rate trash onto the market and inspecting consumers. And some professional industry developers are adopting it too depending on where you look.Cruelty Squad for example is just pure garbage and is in itself an argument against the indie developer scene having any talent. New Blood Interactive may count as another valid example. They're developing a game called Gloomwood that's been in development for 7 years but it's complete amateur work compared to not only the official Thief releases, but also that of the Dark Mod. They're not even capable of hitting any meaningful quality levels and ask people to fund it in early access all on account of two words and it's nowhere near as good as it's inspiration.
>>747628908>>747629056>>747629313>>747629390>>747630192they are fpsrpgs, there are rpg stats, rpg progression, rpg dialogue systems, etcwhy was this term invented, immersive sim, when fpsrpg makes perfect sense
>>747630368Yes i agree everyone should just go back to saying FPSRPG and for Thief just simply saying "stealth" since everyone would understand it historically and that's very hard to get wrong. It's known for it's place in history and the others get that more common game identity for Deus Ex.
>>747630368Because, then you'd have to "admit" these games aren't separate from Bethesda games, that's really why.
>>747628747>Is not a real terminology to describe video games>real terminology to describe video games>real terminologynominative autists shit their pants daily because vidya genre names are total nonsense, and anytime they think about even a single one it all collapses immediately>mario is an rpg because you play the role of mario saving the princess>bamham is a fighting game because you fight people>intravenous is a shmup because you shoot a lot of motherfuckers up in thereif you are not sufferring from debilitating mental illness you can easily refute all of that, but madmen will either claim such things sincerely or try to finagle new names out of existing ones or get into some other spergout
>>747630707You also filter out a ton of noise with it. If this terminology does not lead in aiding the search to finding a game that plays exactly like Deus Ex then it's worthless. It missed it's purpose.FPSRPG gets you far closer to finding a game with the exact same properties even if it's imperfect. And if those properties are not well enough defined then simply sandbox FPSRPG or something along those lines is the only way i can tighten that definition so it makes sense.
>>747631215fair points but this is also what leads to every game having skill trees and upgrades and mediocre gameplay
>>747628747I recognize like 2 of these and that's being very generous towards one because it's quite difficulty to tell from the shitty art and artstyle change.
>>747630368Warren Spector said that ImSims are RPGs. And most RPGs don't have emergent gameplay or the physics systems needed for this kind of game.The distinction is not that hard, I don't know why it confuses people so much. This also leads to low sales for the most part, with like two exceptions.
>>747631515sorry, 3* Hard to confuse Corvo's mask since it's so obvious that it almost didn't register.
>>747631394what is "this" in>but this is also what leads tosupposed to be exactly? how do generic designed-by-committee mechanics relate to unclear naming conventions exactly?my point is that names were not "designed" to make coherent holistic sense, they "mutated" along the way, and so carry historic context along with themalmost like it's an expression of natural language of something
>>747631603because people want an immersive sim rpg FPS with whatever elements from other "genres". Deus Ex: Human Revolution is exactly what happens with that mindset
>>747631215Role playing game is used outside of video games and existed prior to most of the video games being made. It's derived from the table top traditions as to why people don't associate it with the video game industries genre naming convention blunders. Had history prior.
I will agree. Niggas throw this term around and use it on everything, I even saw retards claiming Skyrim or bethesda Fallouts are "immersive sims".
Immersive Sim doesn’t describe the genre in the same way that something like “RPG” or “FPS” does. Instead it describes the game design approach. There’s no strict definition of what it means, but it’s essentially an emphasis on emergent gameplay by giving the player tools that can interact with each other and the environment in ways that aren’t pre-scripted, but interact in a realistic fashion
>Immersive sim fans when they need to take a shit and go into a random restaurant but in order to use the toilet you need to either order something or pay a dollar (they just encountered a problem that can be solved in so many creative ways!)
>>747628747I remember seeing the term around the release of Dishonored as part of the marketing for that game.Before that people talked about spiritual sequels and successors to System Shock and Deus Ex (such as BioShock and VtM Bloodliness). Dishonored isn't really a spiritual sequels to Thief, so they probably promoted the term to make the connection to the games the Looking Glass/Ion Storm games.
>>747632796And that still means absolutely nothing. Middle Earth Shadow of Mordor lets you to handle orc assasinations in creative non-scripted ways so is it a immersive sim?
>>747632802What the fuck are you even trying to say? You sound obese.
I'm not a zoomer but I only recognize half of picrel>dishonored dude and girl>prey dude>"I didn't ask for this" man>jesus christ denton>garret>smiling jack (why is this nigger here vtmb isn't an imsim)>shodandon't know who the rest are
>>747632841Did you even read my post?
>>747632375i think you are shadowboxing against a point nobody is making herenot to mention human revolution and the whole eidos montreal's history is pretty fucking wack to try to tie it all into "people want an immersive sim rpg FPS"might as well just blame everybody who pivoted from PC games to console games and call of duty for its perks and gun progression systems in multiplayer>>747632520indeed, and as a vidya genre it has a fairly clear family tree, starting from tabletop wargames and descending down to artsy RPGMaker projectsAND YET we are still not done with braindead "what counts as a JRPG" and "RPG elements" discussions because apparently name is the first and the last instance of truth, ebin planescape reference brehs
>>747632869Bottom right is Morgan from Prey. Incredibly good ImSim that was ruined by Bethesda by forcing them to shoehorn in and market it as a successor to a dead, unrelated series
>>747632802>enter random restaurant while dressed well so the owners think you are a gonna order after going to the bathroom >steal money from a random bum bucket in order to buy something from a convenience store>go into a fast food joint that's unlikely to even check or care if you order anything >hold the shit for as long as possible in order to shit at home (-10 anus health)>never leave the house without pre-shitting (requires High Autism perk)>find a dark alley to shit while no one is watching (requires Expert stealth and Brahmin racial perk)
>>747628908Gone Home and nu Zelda aren't immersive sims, you must be watching some seriously retarded YouTubers.
>>747632986Sounds like kino to me
>>747629313>movement shooterThat shit is like 5 years old at most.
>>747633036BotW and TotK absolutely are immersive sims. The dungeon design alone is proof enough. People are so otherwise are the same type of purists who screech when you call a game a roguelike when “erm ACTUALLY it’s a RogueLITE”
>BotW and TotK absolutely are immersive simsKill this man. Firing squad.
>>747630368Ah yes, the famous rpg systems of Thief.What was your build, lads?
>>747632869It's just some fanart i found for people trying to shill indie trash among actual classics. It's another reason i hate the terminology and kind of fit nicely into to the point that the umbrella terminology is redundant. If you've made Deus Ex it will be known as such. It will come up in actual Deus Ex discussions of that one developer who finally made a game that was just as good as it was. It won't need aggressive shilling like Cruelty Squad either. Likewise with Thief or System Shock. That being said I'm not the biggest fan of Arkanes (except for Dark Messaih and Arx Fatalis) games so i already feel some of the conflicting nature of those games working against it at the professional level.Some games just feel too different than ones that were specifically made by Ion Storm or Looking Glass.
"Immersive sim" is genuinely a bullshit term for something that doesn't exist. Retards will just throw it around when faced with a game that allows you to solve problems in multiple ways or get non-scripted reactions from interacting in the game in different ways, but it's all just things we should expect from a game made with a basic level of inteligence. Is Mark of The Ninja an "immersive sim" because you can get through sections in multiple ways and creatively use your moveset & ninja tools? Is Minecraft a fucking immersive sim? Hell, are Bamham games "immersive sims"? Fuck off.
>>747633104The dungeon design in the new Zelda games is mostly retarded.
>>747633131Well you can seethe about it if you’d like, but that doesn’t change that it’s true
>botw is an imsim>fallout 4 is an imsim>deus ex is an imsimSeems I have a type.
Deus Ex is the prototypical immersive sims because it's design philosophy is completely oriented towards solving problems in multiple ways. Almost any locked door you encounter can be destroyed, lockpicked, hacked or there is an alternative way in, and there is other solutions such as finding codes or getting NPCs to open the door. A good CRPG would also do this, but the genre is virtually dead outside of outliers like BG3.
>>747633167Minecraft was supposed to be a Dwarf Fortress clone until the Swedish fat fuck just gave up on the project.
>>747628747This thread is an immersive sim
>>747632869I think I recognize Marie from Peripieta or whatever it's called. White hair+glowing blue eyes. But that game has such a different art style that it's more like a cosplay since she's like an anime girl android that can't sleep or something because she's like 95% machine with a human face.Indie game in perpetual early-access because it's just a passion project by some slavs. It's more like Cruelty squad in a Deus Ex skin.
It's simple but became convoluted thanks to Spector, Colontonio and people who think ImSim is some high title that only few are worthy.If you look at this "genre" overwhelming majority of it copies games developed by Ion Storm and Looking Glass with Ultima Underworld being a forerunner of the whole thing.Arx Fatalis? UU3.Dark Messiah? Arx + Thief.Bioshock? SS1+2.Dishonored? DE+Thief.Prey? SS.Gloomwood? Thief mixed with RE.Monomyth? Arx(UU) + King's Field.and so on and so forthSo in its essence it's LookingGlass/IonStorm-likes in the same way as there are Soulslikes, Roguelikes and Metroidvanias.
>>747633236Bethesda games do have many immersive sim elements since the first Elder Scrolls game was actually inspired by Ultima Underworld. But the way the world and the dungeons are designed tends to be very restrictive. If Skyrim was an immersive sim then the player would be able to defeat dragons in a lot of unique ways.
>>7476328023rd option: you already know the toilet door code is 0451 because epic immersive sim reference
>>747628747It was just a good placeholder term in the 90s and early 2000s. I think that it made sense at the time
>>747633509I personally don't see any similarities with Bioshock and System Shock outside of audio logs so I object to it there too. It's already too messy once Ken Levine changed up the design direction too much. It doesn't matter if it's the lineage on paper if these games do not play much alike at that point. It's just seems egotistical at that point rather than serving the idea of what games are actually being made.
>>747633509That's a neat breakdown. But I believe a lot of people see what they what they want to see in the original games, which is why they try to sell others on very different aspects. You can break down all the classics to their constituents relatively easily, and in many respects modern games (used derogatory) follow the same concepts."Deal with the problem your own way" approach of ubisoftian stealth-action-rpgs, different systems interconnecting via items and physics, relatively freeform progression of open world games. It's all there, and yet obviously nothing like what anybody clamors for.
>>747628747is pathologic 2 really unplayable on base ps4? There's not enough players on it to give me any feedback. All I know is that load times are long and saves get corrupted. And that the port will never ever be fixed. But it's regularly getting sales so that's that.
>>747632605Bethesda games are heavily inspired by immersive sims at the very least. Deus Ex was apparently an inspiration for Fallout 3, and you can see that influence comparing the games side-by-side.
>>747629056>No one used "diagetic" or "ludonarrative dissonance" eitherPeople have been using ludonarrative dissonance since Dishonored 1, that's the game that made the term popular. That was like 15 years ago
>>747628747fuck off
>>747630368Borderlands is a FPS-RPG and plays nothing like an ImSim. In fact the ability to beat an ImSim with minimal RPG progression is arguably a hallmark of the genre. If there's no way to advance through the game without passing stat checks, then the game failed to follow the ImSim philosophy.
>>747630368VtmB is an FPS RPG. Dishonored/Bioshock/Prey are stealth/shooter hybrid games which is what imsims are. Deus Ex is closer to a first person RPG but it's still mostly an FPS/stealth hybrid game.
>>747633270Creative problem solving is all well and good but i also don't want to be sold games on the merits that they are a puzzle box at the same time. Since Deus Ex is much more than that. That in itself is a major misconception that this whole label brings with it. People are really expecting a deep FPSRPG that's not pure garbage and it's why Deus Ex has no equivalents. Rather than solve the problem your own way there's more to it than that.
>>747634851The Assassin’s Creed/Far Cry “play your own way” style game is a slightly more gamey and arcadey approach to the whole idea. The core gameplay loop is the same as an immersive sim, but there’s less attention paid to realism and superfluous interactions like turning on sinks.But then you have weird middle grounds like Hitman that have both arcadey gameplay AND immersive sim level attention to detail.
>>747628747>>747631515pretty sure i recognise>dishonored (both corvo & emily)>deus ex>prey>system shockdifficult to tell any of the rest
>>747633148>OP: "Thief should not be in the same genre as System Shock and Deus Ex">you: "But without that term, how could we include Thief in the same genre??? Checkmate, heh."
>>747628908Oh, you are retarded. I’m sorry for trying to engage you in serious conversation.
>>747635642>that's the game that made the term popularIt was actually GTA IV that made the term popular since people pointed out that going on rampages in free-roaming was at odds with the sombre tone of the story. Dishonored is the exact opposite of ludonarrative dissonance, since the story is directly influenced by how you play the game.
>>747636064I pretty much only recognized Corvo and Deus Ex. The third reach is Marie from Slav-Ex aka "Peripetia". But like I said it's a generous reach because of the art style and it's only because of key features like the glowing blue eyes and the hairclip and not because it's actually recognizable. I guess System Shock also falls into that same category but it's a very odd choice.
>>747636728Immersive sims don’t really have many iconic characters. Denton, Jensen, Corvo and Emily are iconic because they have really striking and memorable designs. In most other immersive sims, the MC is just some dude who you don’t even see much of due to the game being in first person.
Nobody used the term but allegedly Eidos in 2011 and Arkane in 2012. Then Arkane once again in 2017. Although i can personally attest to actually NOT seeing it anywhere where i looked. Despite seeing Arkane/Bethesda Dishonored advertisement billboards on my daily commutes via public transport back in 2012 and i saw all sorts of Bus and train banners too including the larger adverting spaces and it was simply something like "revenge solves everything". Never saw the word immersive sim in a Dishonored TV advertisement to my knowledge. That's just apparently how it exists despite me never seeing it anywhere. I've chalked it up to youtube essayists and gaming journalists. It reeks of online essayist culture.
>>747633167>I don’t know what an immersive sim is therefore it’s a bullshit termImmensely retarded
>>747637678Nobody used it at all until randomly people started claiming it existed outside of some obscure page from LGS which practically no one cared about enough to start adopting what it said. This is historical revisionism about how anyone discussed these games unless you're willing to find one or two odd mentions on the LGS forums.
>>747635750There is no philosophy at all otherwise you end up with Zelda BOTW/TOTK as your Deus Ex successor which is what people actually argue in that regard. It's a shit terminology and it has no meaning whatsoever so FPSRPG is the only one that makes sense.>>747635669No u. Until the terminology is annihilated i will continue to call it stupid.>>747633131That's what people argue on the subreddit for it.
>>747634814Back in the day most people agreed that BioShock wasn't an Immersive Sim and that it was massively dumbed down compared with System Shock. Stop watching YouTube essays by zoomoids.
>>747629056>EbertI'm probably one of the only people here who actually read his article on this, and while I personally find it to be retarded, it's also worth mentioning that he directly contradicts pic related, when he agrees with Plato's equally retarded take. This is in spite of the fact that the man in pic rel is considered to be one of the greatest artists in filmmaking history.
>>747639128I only remember people online saying it was inferior to SS but not that people were calling it an immersive sim at the same time, they were just identified as Looking Glass games. People shat on Infinite for having more primitive lighting and physics systems than FEAR too.
>>747634851There was a time in which every single AAA game wasn't an open world stealth shooter action RPG with crafting, so a game like Deus Ex was easier to parse.
>>747628747>Wah wah terminology makes me cryYou're not interesting.
>>747635779>BioShock >stealthMain issue with the younglings these days is that they don't even play games but cannot stop talking about them.
>>747629390>play western RTS>even artillery can't fire farther than a rifle
>>747639128>Back in the day most people agreed that BioShock wasn't an Immersive SimBack in the day the term didn't exist.
>>747639252Nobody will ever care, because the crux of the argument is keeping the youngest medium from being "art". A new medium can only be "art" once it's been completely inundated with boring fucks who exist to uphold some magical understanding of the status quo. This understanding, without fail, is built on the non-negotiable assumption that the medium died 30+ years ago... aside from turbo-avant-garde bullshit made to launder money.It happened to everything else recognized as "art", it'll happen to games too.
>>747637580I don't live in the USA so what I saw were developer interviews in gaming websites, and I think thats where Arkane brought up the idea of the 'immersive sim' to connect Dishonored to the legacy of Thief and Deus Ex.
>>747638927>Zelda BOTW/TOTK as your Deus Ex successor which is what people actually argue in that regardSome puzzles and challenges in those games do follow an Immersive Sim philosophy, although that's only because Nintendo reinvented the idea from first principles. It's also just a partial thing, a lot of the game has very standard combat and puzzles that don't give you any options.
>>747639252Ebert was a hackfraud who had horrible taste in film, but was actually a decent writer. When you look into it the guy was just a noxious influence on film criticisms.
>>747639550The term existed but wasn't widely used. People forget that Harvey Smith worked in both Deus Ex and Dishonored and he was the one bringing up Warren Spector's ideas.
>>747639556>>747639881I'm glad people here get it, at least.
>>747639712The primary issues i saw with Arkanes Dishonored connection is that it that it's more combat viable than Thief and it didn't emphasize a more sophisticated sound propagation system or even any dynamic lighting systems at all if you want to narrow that idea further and only Deadly Shadows got closer by that stage.It was probably closer to Deus Ex+Human Revolution.There's a secondary way to define what Thief actually is outside of the original Looking Glass and Ion Storm developed games and it's called The Dark Mod. Which is pure and 1:1 with Thiefs actual direction.
>>747628747It's a descriptor. Not a genre or sub-genre. Most Immersive Sims don't share a genre. They're generally just really opened ended RPGs that give the player Agency in what to do and where to go at the very start.Think Kenshi, Bannerlord, Elder Scrolls, 3D Fallout, Grand Strategy Games, etc.
>>747630192>inspecting consumersI meant to say fooling consumers. Not sure how that typo happened.
>>747630368>>747630640>>747631241This guy >>747635750 get it, do you guys know which game is also a fpsrpg? Far cry 3. If you really think Far Cry is in the same category of Deus EX you're a retard nigger, I don't know why some you are bringing botw and totk but even them they are MUCH CLOSER to Deus EX them fucking far cry
>>747641303Yeah and bargain bin trash FPSRPGs from back in the early 00s were far closer to Deus Ex than anything an indie developer who called their game an immersive sim shat out in the modern era. So it's still a better proposition than most.
>>747635750borderlands is as much of an rpg as an mmorpg is, it has rpg elements, but its not an rpgits like saying diablo 2 and baldurs gate 2 are pretty much the same type of games, fantasy rpgsor claiming that lineage 2 and neverwinter nights are pretty much the same type of games, fantasy rpgs
>>747641910>use a game that literally tried to copy Deus EX as example>use a game that is literally called a immersive simWhat's your point? A shit metroidvania still is a metroidvania, the thing is both games are not in the same genre as Far Cry or Boderlands
>>747637678Okay, so what does it mean? Because "you have multiple options here" is not "immersive sim", that's basic game design.
>>747642576Not him, but that's the point actually, there is a reason no one calls Souls games simply "Action RPG"
Does indie games like Cruelty Squad and Brigand: Oaxaca remind anyone else of the worst games you could pick up for like 2 dollars in the bargain bin back in the day? specifically Cruelty Squad pretends that the reason that it is so bad is simultaneously an artistic statement. But when i look at the game it just reminds me of garbage that no one in their right mind would sell for more than a couple of dollars in my pic related. If not just give it away for free i suppose. They're not even Sabotain Break the Rules since that would be above their quality and that says a lot. It's the shit no one could move out of a store back then and they ended up in ewaste instead.
>>747643335yeah but thats my point, its not an FPSRPG technicallyDeus Ex isVTMB isSystem Shock isthey are true rpgs, and true first person games, thus the environment can be manipulated and used in real time, opposed to cRPGs where the view is most often isometric and the environment isn't physically part of the gameplay
>>747643475Kind of, but they're mechanically competent unlike those games.
>>747642591It said it was like Deus Ex and System Shock, only used name associations in 2005. But described itself as an action rpg to my recollection of it. It never used that term as far as I'm aware of in the original marketing materials. Both on box and on it's original website. So my point remains.It was an FPSRPG that simply stated its inspirations and closer reflected it. Even if it was shit.
>>747643796>yeah but thats my point, its not an FPSRPG technicallyIt's the opposite, they are technically FPSRPG, look you can spend all day arguing about how this games have very shallow RPG mechanics and I would agree with you, but that don't make them non existent, Far Cry you can make builds, crafting, you can up your hunting skills, you can have a stealth approach, of course like I said It's shallow but they are there, also how do you explain Dishonored? Even in a psycho run you're not supposed to shoot everyone so I would never call this game a FPS, the same way I normally would never call Far Cry a RPG, but I can call both Dishonored and Deus EX immersive sims
>>747628747If thats true then how come i know EXACFLY what kind of game you meant when you said "immersive sim"?
>>747646481>I can call both Dishonored and Deus EX immersive simsThis genre convention/philosophy gibberish ruined finding games like Thief, so it did more harm than good. That being said thankfully TDM existed before the essayists caught on to all of it.
minecraft is an immersive sim, deus ex is a pick-a-path
>>747628747immersive sim just sounds like "old fps I like" than an actual genre.Name me a shit immersive sim to convince me that it's a genre and the product can vary in quality. Don't give me something that's well-liked but you personally hate it for the sake of being contrarian, give me an actual objective dog shit that everybody dislikes.
>>747646432ImSim wasn't and still isn't a popular term, why they would use a term only a few people know at the time? It was easier to just say the inspiration of the game. Metroidvania wasn't a thing until a decade after the release of SoTN (even worse if you count the release of the first metroid), also if you take a game like Code Vein you will never see "Anime soulslike" in the box or ads, the game was selled as "Action RPG with a Heavy inspiration on Dark Souls", but if you look in wikis and everything the game is listed as a soulslike (like neurohunter with ImSim as you can see in pic related)
>>747647980When do you think that was added?
>>747636064reverse image search on Google has Gemini name almost everyone; I just wont paste it because I fucked up and the second time it just gave me>JC Denton Corvo Attano Morgan Yu Garrett Adam Jensen Goggles Artemis or Gideon
>>747647980I'll repost that. I didn't realize you weren't talking about wikipedia but PCGW. What i do know is the time in which the neurohunter article was created would typically align when people (essayists/journalists) started saying the term. 2016-2017
>>747648320>SoTN is not a metroidvania because a Wikipedia page from 2010 didn't list it as one>This also means Metroidvania as a genre don't existAlso Code Vein is not listed as a soulslike either>>747649309Good that you noticed the print wasn't from wikipedia, but my point remains ImSim is not a normie term, that's why people only updated entries after it became famous, the same thing that happened to metroidvania
>>747649907>ImSim is not a normie term>not a normie termIt's a scammer term for hack indie developers to sell shitty games like this. You've never played an obscure game in your life you fucking retarded zoomer.
>>747650092>It's a term used by indiesStop talking about things that happened before you were born
>>747650512>before you were bornLiterally no one said anything from that LGS web page. I walked into stores and bought boxed copies of these games but all you do is lecture me on shit that was never said. I don't recall reading PC gaming magazine previews of Thief that described the game as an immersive sim. On the contrary no one said it there either. Unless you can prove that assertion wrong because i had tons of different subscriptions from back then.
>>747628747enlightened individual take
>>747633148Thief is not in the same genre as Deus ex or System Shock it plays nothing like it
