>spent ages learning 2k words and 2k kanji>finally try to play a vidya gaem in Japanese, which is why I started learning in the first place>can't understand SHIT
>>748556773Try this one first >https://store.steampowered.com/app/1114950/Learn_Japanese_RPG_Hiragana_Forbidden_Speech/
>>748556773I maded English learning in a Bethesda games, callingly Oblivion and Fallout 3, how is Japanese learning some difference?
>>748557070I already know hiragana tho...
>>748557070>240 words>136 kanjiYou can do this in a few weeks for freeWagotabi is far better anyway
>>748557332kek based ESLking
>>748556773That is when the fun starts my man.
don't botherunless you are an east asian nigga learning japanese is a waste of time. You will never be good at it
>>748556773Did you study any grammar? Also, weird ratio of words to kanji.
>>748556773You did it backwards, retard. Immersion first, then supplemental materials to speed up your learning. While it's possible to learn without context, anything that you learn in the context of actual usage of the language will stick a whole lot better.
>>748556773I'm not there yet, but grammar's a big one, any occasion to hear and read some japanese is one that should be taken (I even bought a book of traditional stories for language learnes, with the japanese and english text side by side)i try to watch the random jp vids i get recommended by youtube, even if you just understand one sentence and a few words in all the others, it's something
>Sign up for Japanese courses>Try reading shit immediately after learning kana>Get raped and gaped>Wait a couple of years>Try reading shit in a seamless way, not caring if I understand everything>Get raped and gaped>Get to around N3, go through all Joyo kanji on Anki>Try reading shit>Finally understand most of itI've gone through Polar Bear Cafe and I am going through Yotsuba&! now. I still have to look things up or consult Claude with grammar sometimes, but I actually feel like I'm learning something outside of courses now. Feels pretty good, man.
>>748557887How are you supposed to read shit in a language you don't understand a single word of?
>>748557680Where's the fun >>748557831I tried but all the shit people recommended was either super confusing and hard or spent 5 pages on super basic shit like は (not any nuance just basic A does B sentences)
>>748558080For every kanji, corresponding vocabularyFor all vocabulary, example sentencesFor all examples encountered, dialogues and scenes using themThen even if you don't learn it all at once (you can't anyway), you'll have planted the seeds to learn from repeated encounters in games, animes, movies, whatever else.Even better would be to also speak the language with natives or advanced students daily, like children do when learning their native language
>>748558313Isn't that basically what a deck like Kaishi is? >Even better would be to also speak the language with natives or advanced students daily, like children do when learning their native languageI don't think any Japs want to talk to dumb foreigners that barely speak the language and I sure as hell don't have the cash to pay them $50/h for it
>>748558294Yeah. You're gonna want grammar. Just grab any textbook and do it. If you're not trolling, knowing the high school kanji is a great place to be. Start learning words, do the first two books of any series then just start going and struggling through the real world.That is, if you literally mean you couldn't understand anything. If you just mean reading was slow, then yes, just struggle through it.
>>748558294https://nativshark.notion.site/Native-materials-for-Japanese-f72c72d54c4146cc8617d69b7785b688I like their lessons, you have to pay, but it's a good learning website for everything that's not kanjiTo this day I still feel dumb as hell for needing time to read even kana, but I'm aware getting faster takes years and years, and I surprise myself sometimes
>>748558080Do you like video games anon? Replay all your favorite video games, but change the language to japanese. Do this for multiple years and you will probably pick up some basics.
>>748558005Age and how long did it take you?
I'm about to finish the 1.5 core anki deck.....I'll review it daily for a couple of months now...According to my teacher our class is about to reach N3 grammatically (but we still lack vocab)...Hopefully we're all gonna make it!It's been 5 years since I started...
>>748558294>Where's the fun Its right in front of you. You just need to keep going.>>748558005 has already broken through to it and is guaranteed to succeed.
>>748558469>Just grab any textbook and do it.Textbooks are meant for people in schools with you know a teacher and other students. Anyway what I'm trying to say is I've tried some and they sucked ass even more than cure dolly and tae kim
>>748558435I'm a lucky cunt who can afford Wanikani and Nativshark to basically keep the decks for me and give me daily reviews, but I think yeah you could do this with your own decksI've been thinking maybe playing video games with japs could work (since english was a thing I learned a lot of through video games and speaking with strangers in Gmod; most of them not that great at english either)
>>74855852533, around 4 years. Granted, all of joyo kanji is probably too many for everyday manga, but I was kinda scared to move to reading.
>>748558637They're fine for self study. Minna No Nihongo is easily doable alone. You could probably do a chapter a day and get through the first two series in a month and a half.
>>748558005>>748558435I feel like these days you could probably get kinda far in conversations with AI They're language models after all, that's the thing they're supposed to be good atGoes along with changing the language on your phone to japanese to get even more immersed
>>748558652IDK that still seems kinda rudeWould you want some ESL with broken English trying to talk to you when you just wanna vidya?
>>748558825Sure. Doesn't bother me.
>>748558762Man this is literally made for classrooms
>>748558825The trick for this kind of thing is to find people who are interested in playing with foreigners. However usually they want to improve their English so you have to be really stubborn about only using Japanese to the point that they don't actually learn any English..
>>748558825Maybe you'll come aff as charming and not annoying :))But I have no idea how they'd actually react in a game, the people I met in Japan were pretty supportive of japanese learners
>>748558825Anon, not everyone on the internet is a racist 4channeler
>>748558080It's less about never studying at all and more so about making sure you're applying what you learn. It's going to be better to study for 15 minutes a day and then spend another 45 immersing yourself with content in the language than it will be to spend 60 minutes a day just grinding out your study material. Obviously studying will help you along faster, but don't neglect actually using what you learn. You don't have to be an expert in a language to start enjoying content in said language.
>>748559018They still don't like JSLs showing up in Japanese internet.
>>748558484Anon I don't think playing games where I can maybe understand 1% of the moonrunes on screen is gonna be very productive
>>748559073start with games you know well, or where reading doesn't matter too much
>>748558484>for multiple years>you will probably pick up some basics>multiple years>pick up some basics>probably
>>748558992I have a big fat accent so that's off the table anyways >>748559005IRL is a different ballpark entirely like regardless of the context, people will be way nicer IRL since being a cunt is far riskier than online >>748559018Well sure but the Japanese are notoriously anti-foreigner
>>748558941The regular books are just a chapter of vocab, grammar, practice questions for that grammar and listening.What you posted there is explaining how a teacher is to teach the curriculum. You can just do it alone though. It's not hard.
>>748559073Since they are you're favorite games, you should have already played them before multiple times in english and know what the text is supposed to say.
>>748556773meanwhile I just jerked off and let AI translate it :)effortfailures BTFO lmao
Wanikani is the only good kanji learning method
>>748559151>>748559327What's the fucking point then if I'm not even reading the moonrunes?
>>748559309>going through a 200 page textbook meant to be done with a teacher and other students, solo>not hardI think we have different definitions of hard
>>748559473You're still reading them a little bitRemember when you started learning to read as a wee lad? They'd make you go over the lines while the teacher or someone else read them, so you know what it said and you just couldn't read themBut then you see an advertisement sign or you turn over the book to the next page and realize you recognize some of the stuff without anyone needing to tell you what it saysand that's reading
>>748559542Hour a day. Teachers and other students just slow you down. It's just a structured curriculum. You can do it one on one with a teacher or alone.But if you want grammar flash cards exclusively, go do Bunpro I guess.
>>748559047Maybe not an expert but you definitely need a decent level of proficiency Spending 5 minutes on one single sentence because you had to look up a bunch of words and grammar points isn't fun.
>>748559678reminds me of trying to read the hobbit as one of my first forays into the language, just picking out the kanjis as they appear and learning themMade it like two pages into the thing and abandoned that method kek
>>748559782kek yeah that sounds like CBT
>>748559782I found an old novelization of Final Fantasy 1, 2, and 3 and have been reading that. It's also slow. It's kind of fun to start to see the weird "novel" words that you don't see in real life. For example, the knight didn't walk across the castle. He 跨いた. Motherfucker Strode.I still read so slow though. Like, 5 minutes a page. Still, I feel proud that I can mostly do it now. Even if it's slow and I have to have a dictionary.
>>748556773>spend years studying Japanese>invest several thousand hours into reading VNs and books>get 満点 on N1>reading speed still below 15k字/hour, barely half the speed of an average native>subvocalize everything, can’t skim more than a short sentence, reading still feels like workEventually I gave up and went back to consuming most of my JP media in English. I do engage occasionally with untranslated content, but I simply don’t have enough hatred in my heart for the trannylizers to subject myself to reading works that have English translations in Japanese.I’m the ultimate, clinically retarded dekinai.
Besides being able to maybe decipher complex, rare kanjis, what benefit is there in learning radicals?
>>748560006Yeah, I can't imagine ever being retarded enough to read a trannylation given the choice not to.
>>748560006That feels like a massive waste
>>748560006You ever try actual speed reading? That is just skimming basically? You're way more advanced than me sounds like though. So I have no real advice on getting up reading speed.
>>748560064make it easier with all kanjis, not just rare onesthey're not as random anymore, the brain likes being able to classify and dissect things
>>748560064Mnemonics Being able to tell lookalikes easier
>>748560064There's not that many, and I do find it helps break down how they're constructed. You'll see the individual parts and such. Definitely helps if you're writing them. Though even with reading being able to identify the constituent parts makes it easier to read imo.Probably isn't absolutely requires though. Though, I guess required for what is the question.
*blocks your path*
>>748560006dude wtf you cant quit now
>>748560364most of the time it follows a few simple patternsyou can see it in your image even
>>748556773You will never understand a vastly different language unless you go and live in the place where it is spoken and used everywhere.
>>748560364I really haven't studied actually writing kanjis since I learned the kanas, and before that when I did chinese in high schoolEven for some some kanas, I don't have the muscle memory to write them all even though I can read them
>>748560364If you're struggling with it, get an actual brush and try it. That's really why stroke order exists, it matters much less with a pen or pencil.
>>748560498Maybe 200 years ago but we have the internet now
>>748560538That's normal, and there's a common sort of cope "oh real Japanese people can't even do it." But for real, I see tons of younger Japanese people who can't write a lot of kanji. Seems phones and computers are really altering that side of it.
>>748560064There's not much of a point in learning them by heart. Yes, sometimes the radical helps with the meaning, but they feel random more often than not.What actually does help is remembering the sound part, or whatever it's called. There are a lot of similar kanji that are read exacly the same, like 相、粗、祖。
>>748557891Where is that from? It actually looks useful.
>>748556773you don't actually learn a word until you see it 100 different times in your reading
>で>に>と
>>748559069I would be JTL.
でにろ
>>748560782>>748560782With Wanikani you get access to a stats page that's fed by API, it's really cool to see where you're at in the grand scheme of things: https://www.wkstats.com/progress/dashboardyou get charts for JLPT, Joyo, Frequency, and Reading coverage stats (from Aozora Books, NHK Easy, Online News, Twitter, Wikipedia)
>>748560006Is this bait? I'm 6 years in and yeah my reading isn't nearly as fast as English, but I couldn't imagine reading a Japanese work in anything but its native language.
Speaking Asian languages as a white man is pretty cringe and feminine, ngl
>>748560864I spent years thinking 対応 uses を.But it actually uses に.
>>748560942kek
>>748561074Japanese can be a manly language where you mainly speak in grunts though.
>>748561204it's surprisingly easier to speak some sentences this way
>>748561114This is actually a thing I find LLMs really good at. Asking questions about nuances like that and helping me figure out the nuance.
>a year and a half in>reading speed is still slow as shit>still need to look up words regularly >grammar past the basics eludes me when does it get better bros?
>alright time to learn some grammar shit.>'る' verbs huh... 食べる食べます食べた食べました食べない食べません食べなかった 食べませんでした食べて食べている食べています食べたら食べれば食べよう食べましょう食べられる食べられない 食べろ食べさせる食べさせられる
>>748561351why the FUCK are you learning these separately it's the same verb just conjugated in different ways
>>748561351still simpler than russian conjugation
>>748561308What's a grammatical structure you don't understand? Or is it just fitting it all together in sentences?
>>748561008Alright thanks anon. Did you really have to write it like an ad though?
>>748561491mostly fitting them all together but i struggle with the vague ones with multiple meanings depending on context as well here's one that fucked me up recently 見た目も味も最悪な料理だからというのもあるだろうが、 理由はそれだけではないだろう。
>>748561442If you're bored go look at Georgian or Chechnyan.
>>748561308in 3 to 5 years leaps I guessI try to rationalize with how it is to learn any language; I thought I was basically fluent in english at 15 (and I guess I was, in terms of understanding and being understood), but I still made a lot of mistakes and my pronunciation wasn't really natural Then looking back to myself at 20, I was a lot better, but I still made some mistakes, was learning new vocabulary, and getting better at both natural and novel writing I expect when I'm 30, I'll look back on my level at 25 and see the same progression still goingYou never really stop learning a language, even my fucking native french I still sometimes have to think about if a word needs an s at the end because of conjugation, or learn to use a rare word properlyEven if I was dropped in japan and started living there right now, I imagine I'd probably struggle conversing with anyone in any sort of natural adult manner for a couple years at least :c
>>748561582> Did you really have to write it like an ad though?It's the customer support job leaking out of me
>>748561351There's also fun stuff like食べな食べんな
>>748561623Yeah, you're getting more towards what's called Pragmatics at that point. It is very hard, and Japanese often being highly contextual means you lean on Pragmatics a lot.
>>748561778kek i wish it was that simple my accent is still as thick as it was 10 years ago
>>748561351Except all ichidan verbs conjugate like this, so you only need to remember a few simple rules. In my language every verb has 30+ forms and there are no real rules, so you do have to remember every single one.>>748561623There's the matter of it being a dish with the worst appearance and taste, too, but this isn't the only reason.Understandable even without context. You literally just need to read and read, with time it will become natural.
>>748561846And then you also have all the dialect endings and mutations >it would be really funny to move to Kagoshima and learn japanese there, then go anywhere else and sound like the japanese version of a scotsman
>>748561623The first phrase really heavily depends on the second without any additional context.
>>748556773That's why you should never anki-maxx
>>748558294Grammar is more important than vocabulary since Japanese has a "plug and play" word structure.
Kanji are already stupid and make it a lesser language but there is REALLY no way to justify katakanas existence.
>>748561943I'm going to Kumamoto next month just to see them. I once asked an LLM out of boredom "which Japanese city is most likely (my hometown)"And it said, "well Kumamoto has farmers and fun violence."And so, now I'm going.
>>748562080Don't JLPT tests come with textbook grammar questions? Though I guess you could also learn their structure by rote
>>748561623I can see how this one would trip you up if you're still on your second year. Especially だからというのもあるだろうが is like 4 grammar points mashed together.
>>748561943I went to a Japanese school in Tokyo and there was one student there who spoke kansai-ben since he had lived in Osaka but also could not speak any keigo at all. He was the most enthusiastic student and was constantly cracking up the teachers.
>>748561351はよ食え
>>748561867I HATE IT >>748561917i'm sadly way past the age where language just comes naturally >>748562268yeah that's what got me what the FUCK does that even meaneven という alone gives me a headache never mind all that
>>748562419>i'm sadly way past the age where language just comes naturally You are not too old to learn languages son.
>>748562598>You are not too old to learn languages son.i can still brute force them through grinding and memorization sure but they don't come naturally the way they do to a teen or young adult
>>748562193hiragana is for women and kanji and katakana are for manly men, historically speaking
>>748562419>i'm sadly way past the age where language just comes naturallyI started when I was 35. When I started to read, I spent my whole weekend in a starting village of a JRPG - 10+ hours a day - because talking to NPCs cost me so much time and effort.2 years later, I looked back and noticed that I couldn't see any progress. Fortunately, I'm autistic so I continued.Now, another 2 years later, I read your sentence without problem.
>>748558825obviouslypeople who try are endearing.>t.met current gf because she was trying to speak french
>>748562863that doesn't sound like it came naturally i'm not saying you can't learn language past a certain ageyou can but it won't be easy and naturalyou will have to consciously grind grind grind and brute force memorize shit like mad and it sounds like that's exactly what you did
>>748562819>alphabet that is spoken the same but written differently for women/menthis is too stupid.
>>748562805>but they don't come naturally the way they do to a teen or young adultbro thats a myth
>>748561442russian is easier tho
>>748562326The fabled funny Osakan>>748562221Hell yeah, I'd do love to go see that area some day, swing by Miyazaki as wellI've stayed in Nagasaki and Fukuoka and would love to see the rest of Kyushu, there's just sooo much there (Beppu too, hhng)You still have time to watch Golden Kamuy just for the parts that take place there>>748563007Katakana was originally for foreign (chinese) words and used mainly by monks, but the japanese love a good gimmick
>>748562990the only way to "naturally" learn it is to be dropped in the country with no help.everybody else has to grind.I had to grind my fucking mother language as a second generation immigrant.
>>748563012he's not 100% wrong. Children pick up some things faster mostly vocal stuff but as an adult you're far more capable.
>>748563012i can tell you from first hand experience it's definitely not a myth i learnt english passively in my teens and that took a fraction of the effort it's taking me to learn very very basic japanese
Japanese is for the deranged.
>>748560498so people that can speak ancient greek and latin don't actually know the language? they're just pretending?
>>748563147damn son maybe because English is easy as fuck compared to the Japanese hellscape
>>748558941Hey dumbass. You're never going to live in Japan. You literally dont need output beyond a few tourist phrases. Ignore that shit and just read and study the grammar sections.No need to thank me when you figure that out on your own after being in denial about what im saying first.
>>748563147>I learnt english
>>748562990You see something you can't understand, you look it up. Next time, you can't remember, so you look it up once more. Then you see it again, and after thinking for a bit, you recall how it worked. Then once again. And the next time you just read it, thinking to yourself "ha, got it, ez pz". And later you just read it without even noticing.This is a natural process. Sure, it will take more time for a 40 year old than it would for a 10 year old kid.On the other hand, you have a better ability to analyse, interpret and understand, while a kid would probably just memorise set phrases instead of trying to understand their construction.
start using chatgpt voice mode for jp output, no more embarrasing yourself on vrchat
>>748556773I sometimes hear people saying this and can't understand how it even works. I booted up a game like this and could make sense of it without even studying, then slowly learned the language by playing like 200 ero-RPGs. If you're still struggling after 2k words/kanji you should just do the same. Having that shit under your belt will help you at least.
>>748559678>Spending 5 minutes on one single sentence because you had to look up a bunch of words and grammar points isn't fun.It is if you're reading a 1コマ or 4コマ. It feels rewarding to finish a page.
>>748563232there are tons of non-english speakers that would disagree hell like 99% of japs would disagree the difficulty of learning a language mostly depends on how different it is compared to your native language and both english and japanese are VERY different from mine >>748563370i fucking wish i could memorize japanese words after only seeing them twice that aside i don't remember spending much if any time looking words up when i was learning english as a teen and i sure as fuck didn't use any textbooks to learn grammar that's mostly what i mean the grammar came naturally through no active effort meanwhile now every single grammar point i have to manually grind over and over and over and over until i memorize it by brute force
>>748563219Only three of those actually exist in Japanese: 太, 犬 and 大.
>>748563420damn text extractors have furigana now? when I was using them I had to raw dog the kanji.
>>748563570fat dog big
>>748563458Those aren't fun though
>>748563554English is one of the easiest languages in the world, perhaps the easiest. Now you're trying to learn one of the hardest, if not the single hardest, especially for someone who isn't Chinese, although I heard they find it hard too, despite using similar "letters".>>748563595太い犬が大の字になって眠ってるWait, wouldn't that break its legs?
>>748563592It's an old ass program by now. I think I used it for a few years from 2016 and even back then it wasn't new anymore.
>>748563420
>>748562964Would you say the same if it was a Jeet trying to talk to you? Because that's the kind of revulsion Japs feel for foreigners
>>748563896now I understandI didn't realize it was this bad
>>748563827>ネネコネネコネコぱネネGood timesIt didn't take too many days/weeks to kind of get a sense when the program would fuck up where the words started and ended
>>748563896>>748563962SAAR PLEASE SHOW PEENUS*wobbles head at you sexually
