Why JRPGs are so hollow?One would think that the genre priding itself on story and characters and lore would actually FOCUS on them. Instead, somehow, exclusively Trails, Persona and Tales_of ever did. The average JRPG to this day somehow has LESS story and character focus than a typical western AAA game with "focus M" up your ear and codex in the menu. Why is that?
>>748808783https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzZfMSkdvFk
>>748808783You're a fag and I doubt you play enough games to actually know what you're talking about.
>>748808783>Instead, somehow, exclusively [the three worst JRPG franchises in history] ever didDamn.
>>748809274i know right. Trails spends all the effort of good writing on the most shittiest plot and characters imaginable. Meanwhile the cool shit like FF7 ends up with fanfic tier "and then this happened"
>>748808783What's wrong with what he said?
>>748810029it being one of the few things he actually says is what's wrong. But it's understandable cause it's a NES game. My beef is that modern JRPGS are not even remotely more deep than the NES ones. It's like writers allergic to things happening for a reason and characters having any motivations
>>748808783I would say the "hollow" world of FF1 having almost no story feels more alive than Night City, which is funny. You can't brute force worldbuilding with tech and throwing endless dialogue at the player, the pieces have to come together in the right way to create a convincing illusion. Putting in 10 thousand non-reactive, copy pasted NPCs take away from that not add to it for example
>Illiterate retard talks about writing in a genre he doesn't playAnd of course it's a trailscuck
>>748808783Pic not related.
>>748810248having a non reactive world > having straight up no world. Ofc CDPR are bad at it too, but they are using the same exact methods as jrpgs do too. The difference is that non reactive npcs in FF games are a bunch of jokes and references that make absolutely zero fucking sense in-universe and destroy the fabric of reality by their sheer existence. Which is easy to accept in cartoony shit like kingdom hearts which is ridiculous by concept alone already, and very hard in "serious and mature" anime games. Again, literally only trails and persona do this, even tales_of falls off on that front.
>>748808783FFX has 10 times better writing than any Fatlus shit lmao.
>>748810606FFX is trash. Final Fantasy died after 7 and Tactics.
>>748810606it has the tidus laugh scene so quite possible it's on par with persona 4 idk, i've been soured on FF cause every single one recommended to me turned out to be shallow "and then that happened" shit with 6 being the closest to being good
>>748810542>omg trails writing so good I can't wait to read whatever pointless drivel Otto has to tell me after I finish fetch quest #526 so immersive!!11!I'm tempted to call you a midwit but you're genuinely not intelligent enough to deserve that.
>>748810786the point is that he fucking cared to write this shit, and none of the other devs give remotely close of a fuck about their stories and characters. How am i supposed to care about ff7 when it's writer clearly doesn't give less of a fuck about it? When fucking remakes care more about it's story and lore than the original
>>748808783holy esl
>>748810910>the point is that he fucking cared to write this shit, and none of the other devs give remotely close of a fuck about their stories and characters.Drowning the player in pointless drivel=/=good writing or worldbuilding.The fact that your only argument is bringing up fucking FF games only keeps exposing you for an illiterate moron who doesn't play videogames, at least you already backpedaled on Tales of I guess but the situation is still fucking grim
>>748808783>the genre priding itself on story and characters and loreWhere did you get that from?
third world firewall now
>>748808783FF4's very basic story is more interesting than any western RPG I have ever played.
>>748808783Videogames are not a good storytelling medium. No genre is. Any story idea you have is inevitably warped by the gameplay. Usually the gameplay comes first and the story is the flimsy excuse you come up for the gameplay to happen.
>>748810542Non reactivity breaks the illusion as opposed to omitting it which helps to keep it intact in comparison so here it is actually making it worse. The difference between western NPCs and jap NPCs is that the west was always dead set on representing things from the real world accurately which always ended up feeling silly since they just ended up being stuck in uncanny valley (modern graphics still haven't solved this). Japs go the abstract cartoon route in their games which is why abstract cartoon NPCs are more convincing when they are in that world. Everything else is secondary because the fact that it's not realistic means anything goes. This was of course much better represented in 2d
>>748811313>omission keeps it in tactanon literally the main issue of all the open world games and elden ring especially is that things required to support life are missing entirely because the world is designed as random set of objectives first and a place second. Elden Ring is especially notorious about having zero life present, but even bethesda games, which are on the better side, get flak for it.
>>748811131kys
>>748810989>pointless drivelpointless drivel are the very weird jokes ff7 tries to pull instead of actually explorign characters or the world. At least trails does in fact explores character and world with it's pointless drivel
>>748811313To continue, >>748811085 is a good example. Why the fuck would some knight randomly fly 100 feet into the air to land a blow on the enemy like a minute later? It sounds super retarded yet it doesn't ever feel out of place. But when you see a single vehicle clip through a wall in CP2077 it's a fucking travesty
>>748811421I don't know if many would argue Elden Ring has an amazing story though. That's why the zanzibart meme is funny, goes for all souls games
>>748811458>At least trails does in fact explores character and world with it's pointless drivelNo it fucking doesn't, Trails inundates the script with pointless gossip about irrelevant NPCs and their irrelevant daily lives while all the actual important shit happens offscreen and is only ever mentioned through insufferable loredumps and vagueposting that inevitably ends up with shitty payoffs and endless cliffhangers because Trails narrative is ultimately about nothing.Sky in particular is the posterchild of this, a whole game spent on doing nothing but completely pointless fetch quests for copypasted townspeople with a cast of cardboard cutouts with telenovela problems in a completely uninteresting world with a staggering amount of text that is ultimately about nothing at all.Ohhh but we have the funny crossdressing main quest in the school and some generic whodunnit quests, and the ebin fake wincest fanservice! Look at how realistic and lived in this world is, so much better than literally babby's first moviegame, the entire genre clearly pales in comparison to Kondo's masterpieces...
>>748808783I think you should learn how to engage with a story before acting like this.
>>748811782exactly. I can tell trails isn't for me which is why i ain't playing them but i can respect the fact that the creators care about them. I cannot respect the fact that JRPG worlds exist at isekai level development because authors don't care in the slightest about the WORLD only about their OC-donut-steals. Yes i am in fact not content with generic mcanime guy swinging sword against random mess of a monster for some reason existing right next to a white marble generic medieval castle housing some kind of princess.
>>748811853>"you haven't actually engaged with the story">looks inside>drivel about sephiroth being a metaphor about the death of the spirituality in modern times
>>748811971>exactly. I can tell trails isn't for me which is why i ain't playing themSo you're finally admitting you're talking about games you don't even play.As I said, you can't even be called a midwit because you're genuinely mentally challenged and you don't even play videogames.By the way, if you don't like character driven drama you could play all the games that don't do that, but the fact that you mention Trails or fucking Persona as examples of good writing and worldbuilding when they're all character driven really tells a lot about the absolute state of your chickpea brain.
>>748810248night city felt like a cardboard background all the time.I'm still amazed that they had the animations for you to drink and takke shots and all, but din't use them, to sit in a stioool on a bar, you purchased a drink and "used" it from your inventory.... so fucking muhc for inmmersion,
JRPGs is the one genre that I allow to get away with just about anything. I love them but they are subpar gaming experiences through and through.
>>748808783Garland did nothing wrong
>>748812114yeah i've only played personas because they are above the bare minimum both gameplay and story wise and finished only trails of berseria. Zesteria and symphonia were ass for different reasons. Chrono trigger is the case of minimalism ACTUALLY working, but it's cause the game is minimalistic OVERALL, not just in story. Chrono trigger has as much story as every other jrpg while being 10 times faster to beat, it's actually well-fucking-paced.
>>748812174>jrpg does one things correctly for once>BEST GAME EVER>AAA game does one thing badly>WORST GAME EVER
Westerners are obssesed with winning arguments and so they write the most uncriticizable slop out there. Using minorities and so on to avoid justified criticism over their lack of technique.Japanese at least know how to acknowledge human emotions by memeing and doing the basics. A westerner literally cannot say something like "sunglasses are based" without UNENDING SCREECHING about "not all" and "no it isn't, nothing is based". It's dysgenic.Japanese basically say "we need something based here, what seems based? Oh, I know..." and then puts flames on a dog and makes it literally god.A westerner cannot breathe without mentioning "no argument (smug)". Japanese seem to basically do nothing and win every time.
>>748812279>they are above the bare minimum both gameplay and story wiseI guess you would know since you admit you don't fucking play games.>Chrono trigger has as much story as every other jrpgNo it fucking doesn't
>>748811131illiterate retard
>>748812389the word you're looking for to describe this phenomenon is "qualifier", i.e "westerners can't say fucking anything definitive without a billion qualifiers to cover their ass"
>>748812389>Japanese at least know how to acknowledge human emotions by memeing and doing the basics.lol. Japs are soulless robots, hence why everything in their games has to be exaggerated. Subtlety is synonymous with emotionless to japs
>>748812731Yep, that's the one. Criterion wasn't quite it.
I'm having a blast!
>>748812971OREGON WILL NUKED TK47
>>748812971as someone that's blanking on these words constantly the older i get, i'm happy to help
>>748810104>it being one of the few things he actually saysuh...anon...
>>748813353It's still more amusing to take the primary definition wholesale anyway. Legends in Localtroonslation is a retard.
>>748811782>masterpiecereans games are actually the moment op is talking about where the developers totally gave up and just started making by the numbers and checklist slop.I say this as someone who probably spends more time in that world than any and still cares about it. Trails writing is dogshit, and the quests you are complaining about are easily the best part about it. I'm just going to say it. These games aren't for you. those endless bracer fetch quests are the soul of the game. These games are catering to the fantasy of people accepting help and being greatful for that help. People who want marvel universe stakes need to be removed from working on the franchise, but realistically the rot has been left for way too long to be fixed.
>>748812401>no it doesn'the meant per bite
>>748808783because its a nortubel tier genre
>>748813581Wish I knew Japanese so I could tell you that you're wrong about Mato but I can't do anything here alas
>>748808783That's the way the RPG genre has always been.Don't bullshit and act like CRPGs are any different in this respect. Just like JRPGs, the ones with a really heavy story and character focus are the outliers, not the standard, and always have been.
>>748813312Appreciate it.
>>748811085true
>>748814087crpgs started going ambitious VERY quickly. The only ambition anyone is showing in jrpgs is amount of numers generated on hit and complexity of monster design.
>>748817264CRPGs are a miserable subgenre that is entirely driven by cargo cult mentality, of course an illiterate subhuman who doesn't play games wouldn't know this
>>748810542>having a non reactive world > having straight up no world.nah. non-reactive - immersion breaking, while "no" world lets your imagination fill in the gaps. needless to say people who can't even envision an apple would prefer the non-reactive world because at least it's "something" to their empty imaginations.
>>748817264CRPGs, especially modern ones, are the worst offenders of multifarious verbiage. They would benefit greatly from a more "show, don't tell" approach. and I don't know how you can claim that JRPGS aren't "ambitious" given that all of them basically have you progressing towards fighting gods, or some villain who's trying to become one.
