Why doesn't /v/ start a game dev project?Surely there must be enough programmers, artists, etc. to be able to make a small 2D multiplayer game (maybe a pixel moba or low-poly moba that /v/ can play together).
>>748933513$$$
The only skill I had (programming) just became about as valuable as a women's studies degreeI guess I'll have to force myself to learn to draw, see you all in about 20 years...
>>748933807>the only skill i had is being replace by AI...>so im just gonna go learn something that is also being replaced by AI!are you actually retarded?
I'm sure ai could pick it back up and finish it for us lol
>>748934071there is no real difference between AI and human made code as long as shit workswhen it comes to artistic expression though, there is an ontological difference, even before acknowledging an aesthetic one, between something created with intent and effort by a human being, and an algorithm generating noise that resembles things in it's training data, and you'd have to be absolutely soulless to pretend there isn't
>>748933513>Why doesn't /v/ start a game dev project?They did. More than once I believe.I don't think it's possible, because it seems the culture of the board has shifted so much over the years. There's even less posts now even though /v/ has been raped with bots.But, if anons could come together to make a game, it should be something very small scale.Something that a lot of anons would want to make and would require minimal resources.I think it would be fun to have a poll on stuff like genre, designs, and mechanics, so more people would be on board for the vision of the game.>>748933807With the right guidance, it won't take you 20 years. There's a lot of games with crappy art. Just trying alone will eventually lead you to having a unique style.
>>748934556what even happened to /fit/ to get this raped
>>748933513>Why doesn't /v/ start a game dev project?Because /a/ beat us to the punch.
>>748933513It was called /v/ermin and it died forever.
>>748933513I'm a lazy bum. I tried to pick up 3D modeling and coding but I only really stuck to drawing.
>>748933513Because 20 people aren't going to agree on what kind of game to make when they're all working for free.
>>748934854Before even deciding that, are anons even up or able to work on a project?https://poal.me/c3zce6
>>748934659the whole point of /fit/ was to make itI started coming here as an underaged like 20 years ago. After using b for laughs and porn I used fit, a lot. And the community was unrecognizable from today. It was actually helpful. So people who wanted to get better did and left because the people who came in after were fucking pol incels that dont want to improve ther lives, they just want to get jacked while becoming more hateful and more isolated and more miserable. Its ironically a perfect example of why they are wrong in their theories. Sure there were some MGTOW monks back in the day but that was very small. The rest were focused on improving all aspects of life. People got jobs, married, fit, kids, and moved on. Now you have a board of people trying to convince each other thatsnot possible while injecting steroids at 17. Shits pathetic.But thats most boards, v especially. They became focused on hatred and insutls rather than discussion. So even lurkers started leaving. Casual posters dont dare chime in. Its just the same few hudnred fucking miserable people who are on this perceived sinking ship they could step off of any time they wanted. Instead they are forcing themselves to be miserable like martyrs for what? Video game translations? Tiktok clips on fit of women twerking? pathetic shit.
>>748934319glad im not the only anon that remembers the 2 weeks this game was in developmenti was actually a little hype too
>>748933513I'm just gonna wait a year until I can make the perfect game with a single AI prompt.
>>748933513BroQuest and Pokemon Sage proved this will never work. You either make your own game and post it on /v/ and other appropriate vidya boards or make a much lower-stakes project with /v/ like a ROMhack.
>>748933513Someone's gonna inject malware and it aint just going to be Mad calling you an idiot
>>748935864Only sensible post iit
>>748936326Kill yourself
>>748933513I got RPG maker for free last year or so and I was addicted. I was pumping hours into making a cosy generic tropey RPG, putting in silly dialogue, crafting maps, watching tutorial videos on YouTube. I even joined a game jam and presented a shitty game with token puzzles that a judge speedran in under ten minutes
>>748935864Call me foolish, but I still have hope for this place. The occasional good threads are fun enough for me to stick around and wait for the better times.
It’s hard enough to get actual programmers to agree and understand each other in a professional environment. I can’t image getting a team of essentially unpaid freelancers together and organized. Especially now that development moves at breakneck speed - it’s easier to just have one person do everything since they have the vision. The only thing I might outsource is just 3d modeling. But i can rig and animate just fine.
>>748935864>on this perceived sinking ship they could step off of any time they wantedI've tried other places and they're mostly worse. It feels like 4chinz is the only place I can talk about my autistic retard interests and get any conversation at all, even through all the shitflingjng.
>>748933669>can't afford $20 a monthoof
>>748933513Alright let's make a GTA3 spiritual successor. Surely if around 32 people could make GTA3 in 1999/2000, we can do it in no time with modern tools.
>>748934374Translation: You may use AI to efficiently output stuff that doesn't threaten my skill set. But don't you dare threaten MINE or you're soulless and ontologically wrong. Don't even question it okay.
>>748933513I'm very ambitious. I'd want my game to look like a real game and not someone's RPG maker side project like Faggottale and any other gay shit retards like.
>>748933513
>>748939518dude I'm a programmercode is just infrastructuresure, there's arguably beautiful programs out there but at the end of the day 99% of prgramming boils down to just making shit workart is specifically made for the sake of existing and not necessarily for any practical purpose, and is primarily a medium for human expressionautomating the former has it's tradeoffs (mainly that creating code isn't the hard part, and in fact making too much code can swamp human reviewers), while automating the latter is anathema to humanity itself that's why people care so much about AI genned art but not so much about code (as long as it actually works, mind you, as AI is just as likely to spew out dogshit if not carefully supervised)
>>748939518ai code is probably going to be shit because its training off modern slop code by a bunch of amateurs. as an artist whose worked on games I've been thinking of moving to physical media now like ceramics or plushie making. dont really feel threatened by ai but those kinds of art would get me offline more.
>>748933513I'm making a game and feel embarrassed by how much I'm enjoying it. I also have started using spare tokens to mod Mario into Noita because the trend of doing this has inspired me and the result is also pretty cool although unfinished. The best part of game creation though is streamlining development and feeling it become easier for you as you understand how you work better. The main thing that was holding me back before was asset creation (as I create every asset that isn't code based by hand). But I've recently found really good paths of least resistance in Blender and Inkscape and even this has become quick for me. Only thing holding me back now is fucking intense shoulder pain I get randomly. But that should get better once I figure out what daily habit is fucking with my shoulder and back. I really hope I can make money off game dev as this really is what I do best.
>>748934659No one made it and the new generation just spammed porn threads and any diet advice would get shutdown because people hate being judged by others.
>>748934556we're finally dying thank God
>>748936673You are delusional, if getting hacked didn't wake up the admins then nothing will.
>>748939673You are the last Mohican, gobbo.Everyone else has migrated to discord.
>>748934659There's a lot of cope and bullshit there, but the reality is the indian dudes spamming LLM bullshit couldn't fake being real people actually working on their fitness and gyms have a had better luck with not getting their social aspects fucked with compared to most hobbies.Same as why /ck/ was hit so hard
>>748940443It is unironically time to grow up and anons like that still don't understand this. Make it in life and you can easily surround yourself with people who share your ideas, thoughts, and feelings in a way quite like this site. This is ultimately the joy anyone feels from this site, a belonging and ability to be honest about oneself. People who've made it can do this. I'm sure everyone has heard their parents talk before about something they believe or did that goes very against what their parents want. It is normal to not completely fit with the family you are born in, what makes them special is that you set that aside and love each other anyway. The people who you can fully "be yourself" around are the family you go on to form (wife and kids) and friends you may end up making. Most anons only have experience still living in their childhood bedroom and only feeling completely honest on their secret hacker form. They don't know that belonging like that is just a few steps away. It is why millions of people make it day to day despite not using 4chan.
>>748934374art where you 100% cant tell whether its computer generated or the real thing is right around the corner. making it no different from typed and generated scripts.
>>748933513I don't know how to code or model or animate or draw or compose or
>>748940779AI can do code3D modeling is just a bunch of tricks to get a visual quicker, it feels dreadfully confusing at first but quickly becomes intuitive You only need basic 2D animation knowledge if you want to make a pixelated game, 3D animation isn't terribly hard (you can also always make a few games with more simple characters like spaceships if you can't grasp the animation needed yet)Drawing is useful for understanding all art and design but you don't need fully fledged pictures unless you are making a VN or something The bar for videogame music is extremely low
>>748940935I don't want to make vibecoded slop, I wanna make human slop.
>>748941048start programming like an indian.
>>748933513Cwadee will code my game for me
>>748941079They use AI though.
>>748940510And for the record if you were somehow in denial of this, even in spite of still being passionate enough to attempt to discuss videogaems here.Yes, the vast overwhelming majority of /v/ is unironically indians who have never touched vidya, or at best, some dogshit chinese gacha crap for pedophile retards who don't like good gameplay.The rest seems to be a split of the nintendo fanboys fantasizing about console wars that aren't a thing these days and a few people that realize 4chan is basically every other website but you don't have to doxx yourself to some mentally ill faget to talk about the shit you wanna talk about and maybe get like, 3 replies from people that are remotely real.
>>748940510>the reality is my personal headcanon
>>748941048Ask AI about computer science and read up on your language of choice on W3schools (I learned C# in an afternoon through this site). Then you'll know enough to increasingly be able to diagnose what is likely causing AI code an issue and also know the terms to get what you want. I did this and don't really even have to read the actual code to try to follow the chains of logic to find the precise spot of mess up as different elements of the result often hint at a particular issue. Typos and such are one of the leading cause of faulty coding an AI rarely makes ones that'd result from a mispositioned finger and the times it chooses the wrong term or label or whatever else, you can just tell it to look and it will most likely scan and find it. View yourself as the director.
>>748941397I'm more than happy to say the same thing I say about most of the stuff I discuss that's true and unfortunate.I'd be a lot happier if it was a delusion.
>>748940723TL;DR
>>748941472Except it’s not though. At least insofar as /fit/ is concerned. /fit/ got flooded by /pol/tards trying to become muh trad manly men and started sliding down the fucking drain because they couldn’t shut their gobs about their political affiliations for five seconds. Fun threads about hating fat people who refused to improve turned into threads screeching about women and dindus; body pics started turning into retards whinging about you being slightly darker than olive rather than giving critiques or homing in on some weird characteristic and laughing at the poster. Don’t even get me started on the Christian crusader wannabes some five or six years back.
bros...
>>748934556I guess anons aren't here forever after all
>>748940759two more weeks
I'll wait just a little longer, then I'll make the cunny musou i've always wanted but nobody made.
collaboration projects dont work because nobody shares your vision and nobody is reliable. youll have to have the money to pay people to shut up and do the work, and if you dont have that money or dont wanna spend it you're outta luck. solodev is the only way
>>748934374You should learn welding or carpentry instead.
>>748934659looksmaxxing and the black pill pointed out that getting /fit/ beyond a certain point was detrimental in getting laid.
>>748933513>dude just build your own car from scratch lmao because i don't have the money and knowledge you fucking retard
I think a game made by a team of /v/ anons would be very cool. The problem is that you need time and effort from people who are skilled. You need a coherent vision from all contributors, and you need somebody to manage the project well to keep it on track and have any chance of finishing it.From the point of view of a programmer/artist/musician/etc, contributing to a project that is not your own is a compromise. You have to put up with ideas someone else came up with, instead of pursuing your own vision. And unlike in personal projects, the game ever being finished depends on other people doing their job and not ditching it after they get bored. In that case, which is unfortunately quite likely, all your effort goes to waste. Not to mention that obviously you have to forgo any material returns and you can't put that work on your resume either.On the other hand, many people working together can produce something much cooler than a person working alone. I think a /v/ game is possible, and it would be really cool. But it would be very difficult to make it happen
>>748933513Yes, I will make a visual novel with assets generated completely by AI. The twist will be that all the writing will be done BY ME!
>>748933513/vrpg/ tried doing it, at least 4 people trying to boss people around, most of the participants were ideafags "hey it would be cool if you add x" that did absolutely zero work While the people that actually contributed(artist and musician) were hushed, expected to just shut up and did whatever was the current whim.
Okay, but what if I use AI? What if I use it to make my dream game first and foremost, and then publish it? Don't give a fuck about ratings and reviews. Maybe a dozen people really love it. So was it wasted effort, then?
>>748940723have you considered beeing oneself is being a shut-in for some
>>748934374>there is no real difference between AI and human made code as long as shit works>as long as shit worksI'm not even anti-AI, but you literally have no clue what you're talking about and should probably stick to topics you actually know about.
>>748933513I hate most of the people who post here and would rather take my chances alone or not build a game at all.
>>748947742idea guys truly are a plague
>>748948094maybe if your dream game is one without story and it relies entirely on mechanics that can easily googled to find out how to code, sure
>>748948328Door's over there buddy.
I hate programmingDrawing is genuinely painful and makes me want to kms (my friends tells me I have the potential to be a good artist and I believe them but I can't stand practicing)I love reading and writing so I'm writing my own novel that I actually like and enjoy working on
i got an idea for a 2D nuclear power plant management sim comedy game
>>748936705People say this, but honestly, I doubt it. The only thing keeping me here is bad habits. I legitimately HATE most of the shit I see here on 4chan now. Not even /vr/ is a good board anymore, and /vr/ was sacred ground. I've just been avoiding starting to browse Reddit even though I know that's where I'll end up. The theory that there were people actively working to make 4chan unusuable was correct. Hope it was worth it.
>>748948337not everyone can enjoy the creative process, I'm almost jelly of those who doI don't see myself using AI without making it self-deprecating but the only reason I'll be putting myself through actual work is to realise ideas
>>748948359Believe me, I know. I'm having a harder time walking through it than you can understand.
>>748948353That's basically it. I don't want to make a GayStation game after all.
>>748948432never go to reddit. Just don't do it. Even if it's an absolutely weird spot in the internet you end up in, at least you'll be able to tell yourself "it's not reddit".
>>748934556>that picwhere the fuck did everyone go
>>748948484>not everyone can enjoy the creative process, I'm almost jelly of those who doso you want to create stuff without doing anything at all? Refining ideas is part of creative process too.
>>748934659/fit/ is among the main boards ruined by jeets. Turns out they are EXTREMELY insecure about fit white males.
>>748933513I have.Keeping it solo until I see a reason not to because its easier that way.Fuck co-op, I am making a cataclysm fork.I got dreams for that, the main forks may beat me to it but thats fine as well.
>>748948542I don't use social media outside of 4chan, and this site is basically where i get my news. reddit is pretty much the same shit, i imagine, only with less obnoxious retards. i don't subscribe to the "us vs them" mentality most of the idiots on this website seem to have when it comes to reddit. sorry anon.
>>748948552my guess is a bunch passed away due to covid and another bunch never came back after the sharty hack
>>748948432reddit is botted and astroturfed even worse than here if that can be believed, there are way more advertisers and I wouldn't be surprised if botting was happening from reddit itself at this point.
>>748949136At this point, I'd rather confirm that for myself. As long as I don't have to deal with retards who parrot the same 5 lines in response to every discussion that doesn't fit whatever ridiculous narrative they're currently operating on, then I couldn't care less how much advertising there is.
>>748948568If you wanna put it like that, yes, I like refining ideas, but I don't like the manual aspect of drawing/modelling or using a DAW. If instead of AI I had some proper magic direct brain to software converter I could work off, I freely admit I would.I also admit I need more practice but I can't see myself getting to a point where I find enjoyment in the fiddling, even if it helps in as you put it refining ideas.>>748948839I'm mostly just waiting until I find the time to properly evaluate the thing to move to 8moe for good.
>>748949254Instead of the parroting you get predictably upvoted comments at the top and interesting or thoughtful comments are buried, hidden or downvoted and power-tripping moderators that are just a few ranks beneath your typical discord mod.
>>748933513>Why doesn't /v/ start a game dev project?that's something for the /v/ of 15+ years ago to consider, which they didthe /v/ of today would collapse the project and start shitting itself because of schizos, third worlders, and bots raping it into oblivion, and that's if the usual game dev issues don't get to it first
>>748948676>"us vs them" mentalitydude what? I just find it generally unpleasant. They downvote comments they disagree with, on top of having as many bots/shills as here. I didn't randomly decide I'm from 4chan so I'll hate reddit for tradition or whatever you're accusing. geez.The internet is wide too and there is probably another place somewhere to get news, dunno. reddit IS a social media. sm.h. you can do what you want, where to go it's your choice. I leave this gay dev project thread.
>>748949428>If instead of AI I had some proper magic direct brain to software converter I could work offfundamental and aesthetic are two different skills, I'm afraid. even if you have said magic software you would at best only ever produce subpar works and gave up eventually thinking "wtf this tech is shit this looks better in my head!".
>>748949954nta but this sounds like some sort of cope
>>748933513we already domultiple of them tourist
>>748950054it even applies to actual artists. Lack of aesthetic is why it's so easy to detect AI artist and their work btw. I mean if one day AI is actually good enough to be like the top 0.01% human artist, do you think non artist could actually create better work than actual artist using the same tool?
>>748949954>just one more barrier bro, please
Because /v/ doesn't know how to do anything except complain and argue.
>>748949483again, i'd rather confirm that for myself. i know how the upvote/downvote system works. if they abuse it as much as i imagine /v/ would abuse it, then obviously i will be unable to tolerate a website like that
>>748950263>do you think non artist could actually create better work than actual artist using the same tool?sure they can lolHow ironic....you cry about AI for being fallible like humans while praising the idea of artists like they were infallible machines
>>748950391its a combo of the voting and the mods on there.plenty of places won't let you comment freely unless you have "karma"you only get karma by saying what everyone else approves of.
>>748950441>sure they can lolmaybe in your dream anon. it's okay to have happy dream.
>>748950441idk, he does make a pretty good point people who are legitimately good at drawing are usually that way because they understand this concept of "aesthetic" intuitively for whatever reason. people who don't "get it" won't be able to make good-looking pictures. An extreme example would be if a blind person were to use the AI to generate an image. Odds are they won't be able to tune it in a way that gives aesthetic results.
>>748948552The site became too shitty for them to tolerate so they either scattered to various alt-chans, Discords, etc. or they successfully applied for janitor positions at which point they realized the site is the way it is because the mods are the way they are and scattered to various alt-chans, Discords, etc. The latter group probably doesn't exist post-hack after the janitor board was leaked.
>>748950507>>748950552your avoidance of the second part is interesting.what makes an "artist" immune to incompetence, laziness, overconfidence, burnout, and maliciousness?what sort of magic is imbued into them by being called "an artist"why do you think that only an artist could know what "looks good" when the entire basis of their employment is making things that OTHER people who ARENT artists think "looks good"?
>>748935625LLMbots can't into polls
>>748950471>you only get karma by saying what everyone else approves ofI'd have negative 20 billion karma on /v/ if that was the case here. seriously, anon, you don't have to warn me about reddit being a fascist website where free speech goes to die. i have been hearing the same shit for the last 15 years. i'll take my chances.
>>748933513Because someone needs to be the project manager AND editor AND tell people to fuck off with stupid shit. You'd have to set up faux departments and tell people to stay in their fucking lane for what they're contributing (mostly hard separate idea guys into their own department). At the end of the day someone has to make final decisions and be willing to upset people, control project scope, and gatekeep who joins and eject non-contributors.Unironically wrangling /v/tards from 4chan would be easier than wrangling retards in the actual gaming industry.
>>748950608>what makes an "artist" immune to incompetence, laziness, overconfidence, burnout, and maliciousness?Nothing. If you don't know the fundamentals then you're fucked either way in terms of range and competence. And what I am describing is literally the point: someone who gets labeled as an "artist" is able to satisfy both their own internal standards as well as that of their clients, likely because they have that understanding of the "aesthetic". Whether that is a skill or something a person is born with is not for me to say. Idk how it works. But it's there.
>>748950679I am a different guy chiming in, just sharing what I know.Btw the main reason we are pretty sure its botted is some scuttlebutt originating from a number of things.internet botting started getting really big around 2016 when google went in hard on it.at the time you had some botnets openly advertising services for up to 100k likes, comments, upvotes, etc on most big social media. including reddit.Reddit has been so closely tied to corpos and making deals with them, and bots themselves have been under development for so long (predating LLMs by quite a bit) that there is zero reason NOT to bot it even more heavily.It gets more traffic and trains AIs.
>>748933513There have been plenty over the years.Shut the fuck up and lurk moar.
>>748950608>what makes an "artist" immune to incompetence, laziness, overconfidence, burnout, and maliciousness?what sort of magic is imbued into them by being called "an artist"if you only ever draw something during elementary school can you call yourself "artist"? You know very well when I said artist I mean "people who draw".
>>748950803You say it well enough... but if what makes an artist is the ability to satisfy both their internal standards AND that of their clients...I am afraid a great many artists, employed ones at that... are not and have never been artists.So tell me, if an LLM user can do those two things... are they not an artist as well, whether they are taught formally, self-taught, or just able to see what looks good naturally?>>748950861>You know very well when I said artist I mean "people who draw"are you a woman or something?Why do you assume I can read your mind?Why would anyone assume such a fucked up definition of "artist" ????Why is the only art that can define an artist suddenly drawing?what of photography?what of sculpting?what of writing?what of environmental design?what of computer generated graphics?what of a brush paint?
>>748935625>3 people are willing>3 are willing but severely mentally ill>i'm willing but i hate /v/so this is the dream team, eh? what game are we making, anons?
>>748950956i guess? frankly i find discussion about whether or not the AI qualifies as an "artist" to be immensely tiresome because it is, for the most part, pointless.all i care about is results. i have no interest in clout. i have my own appreciation of the "aesthetic" and my own standards. the AI has met those standards before just as well as any human being has. so IMO there literally is no difference, and anyone who is butthurt about that can kiss my grits.
>>748951135>anyone who is butthurt about that can kiss my grits.I don't think no one is butthurt of you using the tool, is that you are spamming the internet full of themImagine browsing a very good thread on /v/ then suddenly someone spammed weight gain comic or something because it's slightly related to the thread's topic.
>>748951135>frankly i find discussion about whether or not the AI qualifies as an "artist" to be immensely tiresomewell, you and I aren't discussing if the AI is an artist.the AI is a tool.that's why I am talking about the user.a user can use it to proverbially throw paint over the canvas and call it "modern art"or they can take the time to tweak and refine things to get a nuanced outcome.All the world is a stage, but the audience is often hidden from us.Sometimes its worth having a genuine talk to put on a performance for those who might observe.
>>748951279Only threads I ever really posted AI images in were the DALL-E 3 threads because that was the whole point of the thread. I can draw, so I at least have enough respect to not undermine drawthreads by being a faggot and posting AI gens as if they were drawings I did by hand. Sometimes the results of gens can be pretty funny, though, and worth sharing if only to make some autist screech about AI existing at all. Idk why we're even talking about this as I haven't been following the discussion closely at all and just wanted to chime in with my thoughts on the matter.
>>748935625where is "yes but I have the skills of a 5-year-old with cerebral palsy"
>>748951452That would be the retard option, anon.
>>748951279why do you insist that anyone using the tool must bear the burden of everyone else who is also using it?Is a smith that picks up a hammer suddenly responsible for everyone else who picks up a hammer and forges something shoddy and unwanted?How selfish of you.You are looking for a scapegoat around every corner.
Honestly, I miss the early DALL-E 3 threads. Now that I think about it, those were some of the threads that made me feel like I was in the company of like-minded people. We were all trying to use this crazy new tech to see what we could output, and some of the results were genuinely awesome. Then gradually the threads started getting spammed by people who hated it, and then even more gradually the quality of gens got worse and worse as the more innovative anons stopped posting, and finally the threads died all together. *sigh*
>>748951523oh you are one of those. You don't actually care about art or anything, you just want to watch someone or something burns.
>>748951671This sounds more like you are afraid to confront the questions I raise, and are looking to create a safe, comfortable exit for your troubled mind so that you can avoid them.I care quite a bit.Which is why I am here and asking these questions.Why is it ONE person's fault for using a tool everyone else is using, just because they happen to be in front of you?
>>748951671>care about artAnon, please don't start with this shit. If you're going to virtue signal about how much you "love art" then you'd better have some artwork of your own that you can post to prove it. Otherwise you're the worst kind of poser.
I think whoever made the poll would be better off making it about whether or not the anons interested in making a game would be willing to use AI or not kek.At this point, that seems to be where the real line is drawn. That and the ability to speak English.
>>748951751I think the overdramatic pivot some of these people do to ridiculous hyperbole is its own sort of giveaway.Like a teenager writing fanfiction.He might as well have just typed>Heh, nothing personEL, kid.
The problem with idea guys is that their ideas are shit AND they're too lazy. Too lazy to even fork over some cash and tell a computer to do literally everything.>I have an amazing idea for a dream game but I can’t code or write or model or whateverJust tell the computer to do it. Or is your idea really that shit that it isn’t worth the most minuscule of effort? At that point who cares about the quality of what the algorithm spits out?Your idea wasn’t worth learning skills for AND it isn’t worth letting a computer do it? Pathetic
>>748934556>/v/ is slower than ever>threads I make still get archived in 30 minutes instead of at least staying up for a couple of hours like on slower boardsWhat the hell is going on here?
>>748952036I wish I wouldn't fall for it every fucking time. Just gets my goat that they try to gatekeep "art" when they obviously don't know what the fuck they're talking about. It's part of the reason I can't stand this shitty board. The sheer number of lying retards is sickening.
>>748952064>Your idea wasn’t worth learning skills for AND it isn’t worth letting a computer do it? Pathetickek
>>748952112>Just gets my goat that they try to gatekeep "art" when they obviously don't know what the fuck they're talking aboutThey do it subconsciously.You ever see an autist that overacts things because they don't know how to socialize, and just copy cartoons they watched?In an odd way, these "art-defenders" have often been taught wrong by society and institutions, such that they do these things with no idea how strange they appear to those who have been socialized properly.Thus, putting them in the same position of the proverbial autist.I don't think this subconscious behavior is special or unique to them; I think it is quite common for humans to have such things they subconsciously follow in this way.People tend not to be introspective and analytical enough to examine the way we think and talk to notice these things easily.Not enough self-doubt, perhaps.
ill join, but I'm the ideas guy
>>748952337Why the FUCK do they congregate here of all places? Jesus Christ. Isn't Reddit supposed to be the daycare for mentally deficient manchildren with no thoughts of their own? Fuck. No, I guess it isn't reasonable to expect that sort of thing. I probably don't even really want thaat sort of thing... or, idk. I just shouldn't spend so much time on this website. Last couple of days I've been latched onto these threads and I think I've reached my limit. Need to break off and do some actual work instead of allow myself to remain absorbed by the sphere of retardation.
>>748934556the captcha is working!
>>748952538They come here because they want to actually be heard.Its for attention, simple as.Nobody cares what they have to say in their own spaces.Any praise they get is meaningless and cheap.On reddit they might as well just be an LLM churning out slop.On here though?Despite the bots we have, here there is still life, there is opposition... there is an audience they can try to perform before, metaphorically speaking.
when AI can do everything, video games will have no value. no one is going to care about them anymore. And this decomp shit is literally going to destroy steam before that even happens. we are now entering the twilight zone, soon up will be down and it will be the most uncertain and uncomfortable time in all of collective human history
>>748952064There's something really wrong if you need to make a game out of an idea for it to be considered good. If you need Balatro to come out to accept the idea that a poker roguelike would sell, you are retarded.
>>748952538>>748952669To be clear, this audience they perform for is not just us.It is their fellows.Our shithole's "mythos" precedes us.And so them coming here is its own performative act in front of their own.>>748952784Fool.An AI requires more power, processing, and internet connections to function than a video game does.
>>748951523you didn’t use a tool, you asked someone else to forge something for you and now you’re pretending you made it
>>748952669Yeah... you're probably right. I'm probably still here for that same reason. Hard not to fancy myself better than the cretins I dsepise despite us being in the same proverbial boat. I just need to stay off the site for a few days. Too much time here is incredibly unhealthy for me. You're a decent fella, anon. If I wasn't so full of spite atm I'd probably seriously entertain the prospect of working with you to build something. But alas, I am angry and sleepy and have much work to do on my own. But I appreciate your wisdom. I'm leaving the thread and going to lie down. Good luck tard wrangling the rest of these fools.
>>748952851By your logic, any artist that did not pluck their own horsehair and fashion their own brush did the same.Did you code the app you used to draw?Did you build the keyboard you used to type?There is not a single line in the sand you can draw that has not already been drawn and stampeded over a dozen times before.
>>748952848>An AI requires more power, processing, and internet connections to function than a video game does.That’s extremely temporary and assumes AI is as good now as it will ever be. In the near future it will lay waste to the human experience. People just haven’t realized how insane the world is about to become.
>>748952914Not equivalent. No tool an artist uses removes the creative process the way an LLM does.
>>748952914>I hired an artist to make something>this means I made it
>>748952964No anon, its not.A hardcoded game will always take up less processing and power then something that needs to be adaptive.>>748953013I am sorry anon but MS paint, blender, and everything else that has been made to replace you having to actually DRAW each frame and manually sculpt models is STILL a thing :)>>748953023So you think LLMs are artists now?
>>748953068I don’t think you understand what I’m saying. The skill floor to make a video game will be so low that it will be like people generating images now, literally no one cares about it, even its “creator” for more than 5 minutes tops
>>748953129No, you didn't understand the words you were typing.You were talking about video game DEVELOPERS.Not video games in general.
>>748953068digital tools do not actually ruin the creative process like LLMs do. They still have a great skill ceiling as a craft and are infinitely granular and are deterministic. An LLM is literally the equivalent of just telling someone to draw you a picture or whatever. It’s a commission, not a tool.
>>748953173the two are directly tied. when everyone becomes the worlds greatest developer of all time, video games will lose all value and fade into obscurity as a category entirely. no one will care about them. generating one would be like you telling someone about a dream you had last night or something
>>748953251This will never be true no matter how many times you post it.
>>748953251Your art teacher telling you this in class does not make it real.You are not an artist by older standards because you do not work as hard.You use tools to do all the heavy lifting for you.You don't have to prepare your pigment, implements and canvas.You don't have to prepare a film, lens, and lighting.You just whistle it up without any skill or effort.You are lazy hacks compared to your predecessors.Everything you bullshit so confidently was already said to dismiss what you consider art now.>>748953340>being able to make your own entertainment means nobody will make their own entertainmentNo... you just don't understand the words you are using.
>>748953376ok, we’ll see what happens. I give it a decade tops.
>>748953414whatever you say, proompter. In a few years you are gonna be trying to pretend that you didn’t use the llm
>>748953429>>748953504It only took a decade or two for electronic fake art to be considered "just as real" of an art.Same thing for fake photographic art to be considered just as real as hand-drawn/painted art.You know nothing of art.Only how to follow what someone else made up for you to use.You wield someone else's words much like you decry a person wielding a tool someone else made :)
By the way, for other anons.Take note of this "art defender" and how they insist anyone that doesn't agree with them is a "prompter"This is one of the quintessential signs of a low IQ.They are not capable of easily holding complex abstract ideas in their mind.They struggle to see things in any way but black or white.It is yet another cruel irony.The "art defender" has no color or nuance to their thoughts.
>>748953414>being able to make your own entertainment means nobody will make their own entertainmentNobody will care. If you type in a prompt and get a game out the other side, even if it the literal greatest game of all time personalized just for you, you aren’t gonna play it for more than 5 minutes. I’m tell you for certain it will have no value. It’s the greatest monkey paw of all time. You will drink from the waters of the LLM and only get thirstier with each sip. It will be a special kind of hell.
>>748933513I was part of a /v/ project. The activity in the steam group is 13 and a half years old now.We started out with a lot of zeal. But fell apart pretty quickly. It's been so long, that I can't say I remember exactly why we failed. But the fragments of memory I have are telling me that it was due to our programmers disappearing after only a couple weeks.Our programmers cobbled together a super basic movement demo, and then disappeared. When he stopped hearing from the programmers, everyone else got demotivated. We couldn't find replacements, so the project just sort of got abandoned after a while.If I had to guess what happened: the programmers felt like they were in over their head, and pulled out before they embarrassed themselves.
>>748953517there is literally no equivalent to llm prompting in the field of art beyond outsourcing/commission. you asked claude to draw you a pretty picture and it did it. did you really think you’re going to be proud of all that “effort” you put in? you are high off the novelty right now but that will fade, dude
>>748953608No, you are just incompetent and lack imagination.You do not know what an entertaining game actually entails, and have instead sloppy copied and pasted other literary scenarios into place where they do not fit.One of the quintessential features of ANY game is that it needs to be engaging.A game cannot be dropped in 5 minutes if it is engaging.
>>748953682There are many, many such equivalents.You are simply not educated in what art actually is.Being able to press a button and capture a perfect image of your surroundings has immeasurably cheapened art, and it is something built into a handheld device every person in civilization carries upon them.Why do you insist on trying to use another person's words?
>>748953704you are just not seeing the reality that in a post scarcity world where anyone can get anything by typing some letters in the magic box, suddenly those things don’t really matter. things with real world utility will matter but we will take for granted the labor the required in the distant past, but for entertainment? dude, it will be extinct as a category.
Why is everyone arguing about AI? This is a game collab thread. It's really simple. You state your skill, and your willingness to get involved. And then you exchange info a meet up on a chat platform to discuss things further. AI has nothing to do with anything.
>>748953846No, we will still be getting entertainment.The need for it will not magically go away.You clearly don't actually PLAY video games.Gmod and Roblox have ALREADY been in exactly that position for decades.And a post scarcity society is centuries away at a minimum
>>748933513I'm waiting for AI to get good enough.
>>748953765>Why do you insist on trying to use another person's words?they are my own words, arrived at by basic observation, and photography isn’t exactly a high form of art but there will still be more skill in things like framing and focal length to actually make a shot interesting compared to prompting with the idealized/perfect form of an llm
>>748953969No, they are the same words that have been shouted in unision across your safespaces en masse.You aren't an actually creative or introspective person, and that is why you do not notice.The skills you speak of with adjusting focal length are turning a fucking dial or swapping a lens someone else made for you.All done according to guides someone else built for you.Using a camera is exactly the same as using an LLM.You pick your model, adjust the settings, give it a subject. and hit a single button (such as the enter key) and away it goes.This is EXACTLY how "proper" artists felt when cameras first became popular.
>>748933807If you actually were a programmer you would understand that AI only makes game dev even more pleasant for us. Nothing's lost, we've gained a powerful new tool.
>>748953969>>748954072And of course, the "proper" artists of the day were full of shit back then as well.Most of them were using a technique with a lens to project an image onto a glass they could then sketch upon to trace an image, rather than TRULY doing it "properly"
Take this famous painting.This "high art"?The artist was using a camera obscura lens to project a photographic image the entire time he was painting it."high art" my ass.Artists are retardedly elitist and the only reason that seems to make any sense is that they are desperate to protect the "value" of their work over others.And thus any work that is NOT their work must be attacked and devalued.Like a bunch of petty schoolgirls.
>>748933513I'm an actual indie mostly-solo dev with a lot of experience and I can tell you this:>99% of people who attempt game dev never finish anything(real statistic)>nobody actualy understands what a realistic scope is until they have a proper game or two under their belt>every collab attempt I was ever a part of was essentially me trying to tard wrangle a bunch of people away from "GTA6 but with perfectly simulated physics"-tier unrealistic ideas and being mostly ignoredIn the end it's just not gonna happen, KS was a miracle that only made it through by virtue of being a VN (I.E. babby's first vidya project that only scales linearly with scope instead of exponentially). Unless you get a real producer who knows what they're doing and who everybody listens to, you're fucked. And no, I'm not interested.
>>748954589charts with my experience just making a fork of cataclysm.I am aiming for a 0.1 release with limits on what I will change but plenty of "big picture ideas" for the future.And its slowed down a fair bit trying to get into the details of a few things.Still achievable, thankfully.
>>748954589Is a single-screen action arcade game a realistic scope? Cause I got like three of those I'm tryin to doodle design documents to just throw away to any dev who gives a shit. I don't even want money for em. I'm an artist but I've stopped idea-guying in the /agdg/ threads because it's not helping myself or anyone. But I've got nearly thirty concepts that are just haunting me.Still, I'd love to be able to talk to devs or anyone else about game design because I find it fascinating. Just talking about gameplay mechanics and comparing them to other games.
>>748955017nta but dont see why it wouldnt be.seems good for a beginner
>>748934556Honestly I like the slower pace and (usually) more civil discourse than circa 2019what I don't like is the fucking zoomers bringing cawadoody and bethesdoom and gacha shit here
>>748933513Time is a very valuable resource.No one wants to burn a ton of it on something no one will even play.Fuck outta here redditbob poster.
>>748933513/v/ is a completely raped board that can't even produce a good thread, let alone a game. The only actual notable 4chan games that have been made are from /trash/, /a/ or /vp/.
>>748952073Faggots make too many twitter threads.
>>748954428I love it when the ai-cultist puts his brain damage on full display for everyone to laugh at. Imagine having a complete meltdown over fucking Vermeer of all people.
>>748933513>what is Snoot Game
