I'd argue it isn't just because of the few puzzles that are literally broken and have to be bypassed by unintended means.
That said, the difficulty curve of the original game is hardly a curve at all. Once you have enough health upgrades, survivability becomes far less of an issue and the bosses are the only real threats. I think the remake did a great job of correcting that and keeping the world threatening throughout the game.

Not really as you're expected to whip EVERY SINGLE wall in the entire game to see if it's breakable. Oh yeah don't forget to check if it's one of those walls you can magically walk through despite there being no hint or indication whatsoever.

>>748940821
>the few puzzles that are literally broken and have to be bypassed by unintended means.
Which of the puzzles were broken? Are you talking about the original? I only ever played the remake.

>>748941037
>whip EVERY SINGLE wall in the entire game to see if it's breakable
>Also the game: If you whip every single wall we're going to shoot lighting bolts at you that can easily wipe out a quarter or more of the max life bar.

>>748941204
Yes, the original has a few puzzles that ended up not working as the devs intended.

>>748940668
A game that expects you to run into every wall until you find a hidden route behind map geometry that then leads into another hidden route behind more geometry that requires a specific double jump to reach is not actually fair.

>>748941362
Like what?

>>748941508
I played both versions. Don't remember anything being broken. I think that homo made that shit up.

>>748941508
The only one I remember off the top of my head is getting the Lamp of Time.

>>748940668
It's hard to make a hard game that is also fair. Most hard games just end up sucking for this reason. No comment on this one in particular

>>748941584
I think I vaguely remember something about it. Wasn't the puzzle that one where the dev forgot to put in a working solution, but it turned out that you could just double jump up to the platform because he also forgot to put in something to block you from just going to it?

>>748941595
I don't wanna turn this thread into shitposting and name calling, but are you sure you aren't just giving up to fast? I'm asking cause I tried making a friend play Zelda 1, only to find out later that he pretty much gave up on trying to solve any of it, used a guide, then just bitched about how much he hated it.

saying that every puzzle has a hint making it fair doesn't mean much when a hint will be a random tablet somewhere in the world that literally just says "the place where he points" and that's supposed to clue you in that you have to stand on a pot that a statue is pointing at in a completely different area and press down to go through it like a super mario pipe to get you in to an otherwise totally inaccessible part of another completely different area where you can attack an object in the background multiple times to pump water to yet another completely different area so you can access the thing you need to progress

>>748940668
i beat la mulana 2 without any form of hint whatsoever. didn't play the dlc though

>>748941653
It sounds more like your friend didn't like that style of game rather than thinking it's unfairly challenging. I just meant if you know that you can find interest in a particular type of game but you keep on seeing really bad design choices in it that are making it hard for the wrong reasons.

No. It's a trial and error game.

>>748941653
Zelda 1 is pretty bullshit by modern standards, you'd actually have to go around bombing random walls and burning random bushes to beat it blind.

>>748941653
Zelda 1 kind of sucks and is only enjoyable if you have nostalgia for it.

>>748941618
I'm not sure if that's the case or just a theory people came up with that got spread around like it's fact.
It's perfectly on-brand for them to design an impossible block puzzle as a decoy while you can just make a jump past it.

>>748941618
>>748942849
No that's definitely a thing, it's the room where you get the lamp of time, I think. They fixed it in the remake (you just get shot with a bolt of lightning if you try to double jump to the item) and made fun of the guy who fucked it up in the original.

>>748942784
Zelda 1 and it's second quest is objectively one of the best video games ever made

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Anyone else here know about GR3? It's the game they made before La-Mulana and it's a fan sequel to the MSX Gradius games.

>>748943135
The second quest is terrible. Is there a single clue that you need to use the whistle randomly on that one desert screen? They just expect you to use the whistle on every single screen in the game to progress?

>>748943305
Genuinely asking: What IS wrong with that? How is that any different from a game asking you to press every button on a screen to figure out your moves or how the world interacts?

>>748940668
Nope. The remake is much better in this regard but is still absolutely brutal.

>>748943362
>How is that any different from a game asking you to press every button on a screen to figure out your moves or how the world interacts?
Ever heard of an instruction manual?

>>748943497
So if the game gave you a complete walkthrough of the game detailing every puzzle, then...that's good game design?

>>748943618
Technically speaking, Tunic did that and it's a great game (up to a point)

>>748943618
How does the game tell you the whistle has to be used on that specific scene? Go on, tell us.

>>748943775
It doesn't. But that's the entire nature of my question: Why is it bad that it doesn't?

>>748944762
Because the essence of puzzles is rooted in being presented information that has to be interpreted to come to a single solution. If you can't do that, you're not making a puzzle, you're selling strategy guides for a $60+tax game.

>>748944831
But that's hardly true at all. Many games give you little information to interpret and require you to play around and experiment with items and systems to see what works and what doesn't. Myst-like games like Myst itself and La-Mulana also do that. What makes it bad that you have to try random things to make any progress?

Also, just for clarity, Zelda 1's first and second quest do NOT require you to use the Magic Flute on any of the desert or ground squares for progression. In 2nd quest, they are just money and upgrades. In 1st quest, those squares don't exist and the only place to use the flute to uncover progression happens at a lake that has no fairy, the only one of its kind in the game and that the old man tells you to use at. You could also potentially argue that the lake experience and the fact you get the flute early in 2nd quest gives you the idea that the flute might open other things. However, I'm just pedantically correcting that. I'm more interested in the idea that we are discussing, so I'll just assume what you said is true for the sake of the discussion.

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is la mulana as esoteric as people say it is, or is it hyperbole? i like metroidvanias but these games have always seemed daunting to me t b h.

No, there's too much bullshit like the pot and having to touch a pillar and then randomly talk to Xelpud to get him to move it

>>748945161
what do you mean by 'esoteric'? it isn't some philosophical nonsense. if you mean cryptic, then know that >>748941679 is not an exaggerated fictional example, those are the actual steps to collect one of the endgame mcguffins you need to fight the last boss and it's not even close to the hardest one to get.

>>748945161
>is la mulana as esoteric as people say it is, or is it hyperbole?
You're expected to combine programs on your laptop in weird ways for certain abilities, the remake just gives you metroidvania-style upgrade items. Trust me, play the remake, it improves almost everything about OG LM. It IS a good game, but it's obnoxiously obtuse to its detriment.

The remake is still pretty obtuse, but it's a lot less frustrating to deal with because you're not running around looking for an ability you already have.

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>>748945161
You know how when you look at the Steam Achievement stats how there's always the super early cheevos that say "Beat the first boss" and it's like 99%, and then it usually tapers off until maybe like 40-50% of players beat the main casual story, and maybe like 2-5% complete the game 100%?

According to Steam, 40% of players just straight up get filtered out of the bat just entering the temple. The first boss is maybe a 4/10 on the difficulty scale, most players should be able to kill them by their 3rd attempt at worst. Which means that over 75% of players get filtered so hard by the first area that they don't even MAKE it to the first boss.

It's pretty obtuse.

>>748945161
La Mulana is an easier version of Maze of Galious, its almost direct inspiration. Maze of Galious is actually bullshit. La Mulana expects a lot out of you if you want to beat it which is why people suggest you take notes. The actual combat is pretty easy and has a bunch of cheese in it, and the movement is pretty stiff, so if you like Metroidvanias for those reasons you won't enjoy it.
It is not for the impatient and does not hold your hand, but it is also an experience you really do not get the opportunity to have often even today with hundreds of indie games available easily, so the people who do enjoy it tend to really enjoy it.

>>748945379
What's the percentage of people that got the swimsuit. I bet it's 0.01%

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>ululululu

is nigoro going to release anything new anytime soon? i heard rumors about "ahamkara" and the maze of galious remake, but that was years ago

>>748945098
Lu Mulana is explicitly loaded with clues. You couldn't have made a worse comparison.

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>>748945597

>>748945615
They did a stream for the 20th anniversary a few months ago, but other than that I don't think we've heard anything. I know back when Ahamkara got announced Naramura was like "I fucking hate talking about anything before it's ready so don't expect to hear more about this game until it's about to release" but we haven't seen anything from the remake either.

>>748945546
The stats on the Steam page now that I'm looking at them are actually pretty interesting. It seems that there are several drop-off points where if a player gets passed that threshold, they tend to stick with it until the next threshold where there's another severe drop. E.g. ~20% of players beat the first poss, but then the average tends to hang around 15-20% for a really long while, then it drops down to ~10% around Eden, then 9% around tower of Goddess area, then it tapers down to around 6% beating the game, then everything funnels down to the lowest cheevos at 0.7% of players beating Hell temple, but all of the hell temple related achievements are at the same 0.7%.

>>748945641
>You couldn't have made a worse comparison.
Hardly. While it is true that the game is loaded with clues, there are tons and tons of parts that are straight up designed to just require you to do shit at random. Example: Tons of false walls and items that require you to strike them that are inside of rooms with the Eye of Judgement visible and active.

>>748941508
>>748941557
A puzzle in Twin Labyrinths
It even has a tablet in the remake pointing out it was unsolvable the intended way originally and punish it if you try to cheese it
>Those that created this contraption are fools. They mistakenly created a puzzle that could not be solved. But after all this time, it has been rewritten. Those who fail to solve this puzzle shall be punished

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Oh look, a La Mulana thread
Everytime I see one I boot up the game, realize I remember very little and start a new save all over again
Each time I progress a little farther at least, last time I remember picking up the lava cape the chain whip and getting stuck on the twin labyrinths upper part being ESL just adds another layer of difficulty to this bs
At this rate I'll finish the game in 10 years

>>748943303
it's WAY harder than the actual MSX Gradius games

>>748942307
>bombing random walls and burning random bushes to beat it blind.
Name a single time that happens in the game without a hint.

>>748940668
Can't imagine how bored uncs must have been to go through this humiliation ritual

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>>748945662

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>>748949032

>>748940668
yeah, i just played it for the first time recently. its a ton of fun up until the gate of illusion, even that i blame myself for getting stuck on, the shit after that though with the chamber of birth was pure cancer.

>>748943362
>How is that any different from a game asking you to press every button on a screen to figure out your moves or how the world interacts?
well for starters, doing that only requires doing it once at the start of the game. If a game required you to do that in every room because the rules randomly change for one room without warning, it would be considered bullshit and bad game design, yes.

>>748945379
>40% of players just straight up get filtered out of the bat just entering the temple.
it's it more like, 40% of people bought the game on sale and never launched it?

>>748940668
Yes, at least for the most part. I still think taking a knee is fucked up.

>>748945379
You misunderstand, those first 40% of people are those who got the game in a bundle or on sale because they heard it was notable but never booted it up. For example, Danganronpa V3 has
>Ultimate Cold Open: Clear the prologue (73.9%)
Do you think a visual novel was "too hard" for almost 30% of players, or they just bought all the DR games in a bundle and never played it?

It would be fair to say that the process of getting to the first boss is a big filter - dropping from 60% to 25%. (Compare: at 63%, only 10% quit DRV3 between the prologue and first class trial).

Getting to Amphisbaena does require separately wandering around to find the boss room, and the ankh, and the jewel, and to solve all subordinate puzzles. Probably most players wander into Spring or Mausoleum.

La-Mulana is in my top 10 but even I can admit that there are a few things in it that are objectively bullshit and leans toward bad design. La-mulana 2 doesn't have any actual bullshit design, but is also just a bit worse overall.

>>748940668
No, the first game had loads of bullshit which was mostly fixed in the sequel. That's the main reason I like 2 so much compared to 1.

>>748940668
>fair
probably not, but it doesn't pretend and hold your hand.

>>748949708
>>748949524
60% of people who own the game have the "actually got in the ruins" achievement which requires you to play for at least a little bit and figure out placing weights and pedestals and block pushing. Then 23% beat the boss of the first area so well over half of the people who actually tried to play the game were filtered by the tutorial level. Then there's a drop to around 18% of players having achievements related to the various relatively straightforward elements of progressing through the first 3 areas dropping off to around 14% having the achievement for killing the boss of the spring in the sky which will probably be your 4th boss and requires quite a bit of puzzle solving and item collecting to access. 12% continued through the increasingly cryptic puzzling to obtain the fruit of eden and get in to the illusion gate which is where the bullshittening truly begins. Achievement rates drop to single digits after this point, but most of the 9% who continued to progress until they awakened the philosophers stuck with it and beat the game with 6.1% of players having finished it.

>>748949315
>>748949524
Achievement Stats ONLY count players who launch the game. There is no "backlog users who got a discount and never launched" with these.
They are right. 60% is the baseline number here, for people who actually bothered entering the temple, which isn't much effort. All other achievements should be inspected under that baseline, meaning that a 40% first boss resolves to a 1:3 chance of the game filtering people.

>>748943689
I think Tunic is still a great game despite 90% of lategame being "okay that is clearly puzzle. Brain off, where's the lazy ass golden cross hidden?".

>>748947582
Just make a notebook (leave 5 pages for each area) or even better, an Obsidian. When you come back, you can just refer back to it.

I LOVE LA MULANA SO MUCH

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>>748950730
>make a decent amount of progress
>track everything in a little notebook
>start getting to inverted worlds
>moved and still haven't found the notebook

Is there any way to use both the music restoration and randomizer at the same time in LM2?

How much harder would it be to play this game blind in Japanese if I'm only like a rusty N2 level?

how does the sequel compare to the original? how is the dlc?
I played the first and it was a 60 hour painful journey for me that i enjoyed but I don't think I could ever do again.

>>748951507
It's fine, doesn't hit the same highs as 1 and some parts especially the end seem really rushed.
There's a pretty obnoxious amount of instant deathtraps, though.
>how is the dlc?
It's no hell temple. It's more like iwbtg in the sense that the focus is on tricky platforming with funny deathtraps

>>748951507
It's fine, it's basically just more La Mulana. I feel like there's a lot more "I hope you were taking notes of every single tablet and puzzle looking mural throughout the game because if not you're gonna be backtracking through all of it for a set of keywords LMAO" than in the first game. There's also a lot more detail and focus on the mythological background in Eg-lana than in the original where it was just sort of general ancient culture vibes, which has both positive and negative aspects. I didn't really care for the generic Norse mythology or obligatory Japanese mythology parts but I basedfaced when I realized the new Egypt area was about the Amarna heresy and classical polytheistic syncretism.

>>748945862
>but all of the hell temple related achievements are at the same 0.7%.
That's probably because of Dosh

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Sex with Mulbruk.

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There is a hole in my heart, knowing that games like these aren't being made anymore. Offensive to most, a treasure to me.

>>748945829
I remember hearing Konami was helping with the Galious remake but who can say at this point.

>>748953945
Those wizards are such fags

I didnt get filtered by the puzzles.

I got filtered by the fucking minecart boss.

>>748940668
>Tower of the Goddess door opens on the surface after beating Viy
That's bullshit. Also the Chamber of Birth is all bullshit. But if you look up the puzzle solutions when you're stuck, the minibosses and boss fights are still very enjoyable. Love how every boss had unique music.

>>748945379
>You know how when you look at the Steam Achievement stats how there's always the super early cheevos that say "Beat the first boss" and it's like 99%
no. people often just play a game a bit and then drop it forever, regardless of difficulty. you don't understand how these things work. what you are describing is hardly unique. also no game has a 99% rate on "start the game" achievements

its fair in the sense that it doesnt hold your pussy bitch hand with yellow paint and ease of progression. what i can say is that its not unfair

>>748943362
NTA but games did solely to sell copies of the strategy guide because they had struck deals with the guide publishers. I believe Kojima outright admitted it in the case of that one fake wall in Metal Gear 1. You aren't supposed to be able to solve the puzzle, you're supposed to get your mom to pay $5 to buy the GameInformer issue that has the solution in it. Trying to make excuses for this is Stockholm Syndrome.

bump

>>748949273
But what you're arguing then is just the number of times. It's "fine" at 1, but bullshit at 20? What about 10? 15? 2? What if it was 1, but you had to search 100 rooms for it? What counts as "1"?

>>748949315
That achievement isn't for people who started the game, it's for people who enter the temple. The game doesn't actually start you at the temple, it starts you in a small town area and you have to solve a puzzle to get inside.

>>748940668
The thing about this game is that it doesn't have "puzzles". It has "locks".
Each room has ~3 locks. And to unlock each lock, you have to find some kind of key gated behind one of the locks across approximately 100 rooms.

Those are not puzzles. It's a trial-and-error game, without having any overarching logic behind where to go next.
You open a "lock". You get a "key". And now you have to manually insert this key into each one of the 200 leftover locks until one of them opens so you get the next key and repeat the same procedure again.

Honestly, it would be somehow bearable if not for the fact that the gameplay is nothing to write home about.
If it was a Tony Hawk game, where I could make pointless skateboard tricks as I go back and forth between each area just because, I could probably put up with this game for longer.

Man I don't even remember where I got filtered in La Mulana, I think it was like 5 different places simultaneously
>couldn't kill the flying lion miniboss thing
>couldn't figure out the place with the 7 endlessly respawning minibosses
>something about mantras maybe?
>couldn't kill the eyeball pillar boss
>something in the frozen giants area I think

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>>748958820
Even without this, when I was clicking around in Steam stats, I saw tons of games that had >90% "first thing" stats. Hogwarts Legacy had 92.3% of people completing the sorting ceremony. Animal Well has 93.3% of people finding a secret egg, and 92% finding the map. Even Dark Souls 3 had a 93.9% completion rate for lighting the first bonfire, and then it drops down to 67.7% for beating Vordt of the Boreal Valley. Fuck, Sekiro has a 94% rate for receiving Ksabimaru from Kuro, 89.6% for getting the prosthetic arm (which just requires you to die to the first guy), 85.5% resurrecting for the first time, then it suddenly jumps all the way down to 57.2% to beating the guy on the horse, the first boss.

Genuinely I think it's you that doesn't know what you're talking about and dramatically underestimate how many people will just get filtered by a small amount of resistance.

>>748959361
>NTA but games did solely to sell copies of the strategy guide because they had struck deals with the guide publishers.
No, that's 100% horseshit. Nobody with any authority has ever stated this. Devs will work with guide sellers, but they just tell them how to play the games. Not a single person has ever said "We intentionally made this puzzle cryptic so you would buy strategy guides." That always has and will continue to be major cope from brainlets who can't stand not thinking they aren't smart enough to solve a children's toy.

>>748962623
Man you really thought you were cooking with that garbage analogy.

>>748963252
you know this was a web browser game, right?

>>748963668
You know Steam also has it and you can download it from them, right?

>>748962992
Man you haven't even reached the biggest filters of the game
>how do I flood the Tower of the Goddess
>Gate of Illusion
Can't imagine how someone is meant to figure the first one out without any guidance.

>>748963620
This isn't an analogy and it wasn't made with nigger mind in mind.
Those are my honest thoughts about the game, and if you cannot appreciate their sincerity, then I have disappointed you even further, as I am unable to translate them into the TikTok slang for you to understand it.

>>748963698
I never would have guessed, anon.

>>748940668
Can't talk about the original because I couldn't run it on my pc, but the remake of 1, which I think is fantastic, was completely fair except for finding the entrance to hell temple
Game is fantastic and wish there were more games with a focus on puzzle solving and exploration instead of combat.

>>748963871
>Gets filtered by high IQ game.
>Tries to call other people low IQ because he got filtered by it.
kek. Now you're just being desperate.

>>748940668
No, because it fails to properly comunicate when you are doing thing right, meaning you are stabbing and doing things at random until you heard the puzzle solved jingle and then you have to stab things at random to see what magically became interactable after the puzzle is solved.

>>748945161
Most people complaining go into the game thinking it's just any other metroidvania and if you just play it without any preparation you're not going to get anywhere.
The game won't hold your hand, and you won't remember everything off of the top of your head so you will most likely need to take notes. If you organize them it won't be as bad as people make it out to be.

>>748964054
>Tries to call other people low IQ
I did not say that. Assuming all niggers have low IQ is quite racist on your part sir.

>>748963853
By reading the hints the game gives you. Of course they're much more obvious in hindsight and I'm not pretending it's easy, but the game does tell you what to do.
The tablet that spawns the pedestal to start flooding the dais to start flooding the tower explicitly tells you to go where the annunaki doesn't look at i.e the room with water you flush into temple of the sun, and you know that statue is annunaki if you scan it.
Then the tablet also mentions to go where the finger points at. Which is the mario pot. Yes, figuring out what to do here is hard but the game does say to go here.

>>748943303
I saw a Video oin youtube like 10 years ago, I liked the recurring enemy boss.

>>748953945
That song was great.

>>748940668
>The definitive version of La-Mulana is stuck on PS Vita for some reason

>>748965453
What's the difference between it and the PC version?

>>748965932
It adds bestiary and some visual cues for invisible traps and puzzles.

>>748966494
It also has at least one new shortcut in spring in the sky, maybe there are more I don't know about

>>748949032
I actually got scared with that part of the guide

>>748964362
Yes it's the Mario pot that the true filter of the puzzle as there is no reason for the player to even think on doing that and the hints fails to even suggest it as it only states to go to where the giant points to which makes it seem like the solution is related to where the pot is, not the pot itself. Compare that to the other part of the solution which was a fake wall which is far more reasonable.

>>748953945
This looks way easier to understand than the remake

>>748964584
I admit the Blood Corridor puzzles were really exciting and better than most of La-Mulana 1. Still nothing will beat the orgasm I had when I solved the "thrust into infinity" puzzle and the dance to invoke Tiamat. Felt like a fucking genius when I solved those.

>>748951507
>how does the sequel compare to the original?
It's easier. I'd want to recommend new players to start with 2 and then play 1... but then 2 spoils the whole story of 1 and this doesn't work well.
Like, 1 goes easy on you until you reach Eden (which is roughly 30% into the game) and then it's non-stopping escalating buttfuckery (culminating with Hell Temple).
2 goes easy on you until Underworld (which is roughly 70-80% into the game) and like HALF of game's tablets are dedicated to Underworld puzzles. Just GETTING into it is a puzzle that filters people until they realize that the info they have doesn't make sense until it does.. I also forgot if Where am I? happens before or during Underworld shenanigans, but it's also one of few big filters.
>how is the dlc?
It's okay, much easier to unlock than Hell Temple. I never bothered to memorize water spots with fish, so I had to manually re-explore entire Eg-lana - that was the only Eden puzzle I didn't solve fast.. Tower itself is full of "gotcha" tricks Hell Temple had (like flipping platforms), but with way less bullshit puzzles.

>>748942307
The walls are somewhat telegraphed even if they don't have actual cracks but the bushes are really bullshit then again there's nothing essential in any random bush besides a few stores that are useful to have near your start point. Hell that bush with the dungeon entrance is really fucking telegraphed.

>>748940668
I still believe there is a single person in the world, who beat this game without any sort of guide or guidance.
Not even usedpizza.

>>748968930
if beating means also completing the Hell Temple, then you're correct
otherwise, the game is doable without a guide, but probably takes more than 150 hours of playtime to do so

>>748969159
even without the hell temple, nobody can convince me he did it. there has to be so much demoralizing empty guess work and randomly stumbling upon a solution, multiple times, that i think nobody has done it.
the game is too fucking evil.

>>748969607
>demoralizing
This is a you problem, and if you don't enjoy exploring then of course it will get frustrating to have sessions without progress.

>>748969607
I don't know man, people have different tastes. I love walking through the house with a cold drink while I think about the solution of a puzzle for hours.

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Post some more essential explorercore.
>Indiana Jones games
>Spelunker games
>Spelunky 1 and 2
>Pharaoh Rebirth
>Pitfall the Lost Expedition

>>748952302
The Dork Lord Shat on a wall.

>>748969785
>>748970240
its been so long i barely remember the game but i think what finally filtered me was the dimensional corridor. and since i barely remember anything, its hard to make a point for myself, but there were so many times where i thought 'this was fucking bullshit' and i literally out of sheer luck came to the solution, including this >>748941679 that it might aswell not count as 'solving' it and it ultimately not being satisfactory at all.
then again i still like the game. it has a lot of soul and thought put into it. i remember some anon saying a few years ago that some of the 'bullshit solutions' are only bad because of a shitty translation. is that true?
if my english is fucking retarded, its because im sitting here with 40 degree fever and feel like im dying.

>>748971923
I don't know Japanese so I can't really compare but I've heard others mention that some of the translation is outright wrong or just plain bad.
It's been so long since I played it for the first time I can basically only talk about the hints in hindsight, but something that I think should have clued you in about where to look for the flooding the tower puzzle is the fact that we're talking about the tower of the goddess here. One half of it is in the frontside of the area, spring in the sky. Hardly a random place and very related to each other. The other half, the pot in Mausoleum of the Giants is also very related since the giants are the ones who built the tower meant for the Mother to get back to the sky.
I'm not trying to shame you or anything of the sort, it's completely normal to miss details in something as complex as this and there's a reason that one puzzle is so infamous. I'm just trying to say how things are not just a random tablet somewhere and then you have to go to some random place. There might be some cases I can't think of right now though.

>>748945597
CUTE

>>748972256
Ok, this round goes to you. Ill get into the game again and in the next la muana thread, in about a year or so, ill tell you exactly why the game is bullshit and nobody ever beat it completely on his own.

>>748941679
I think the pot puzzle is more reasonable when you remember the Gate of Illusion, which you'll need to have beaten for the puzzle itself to be relevant, requires you to press down in a certain spot, too. That said, that puzzle in the Gate of Illusion is also pretty fucking bullshit and the entire area itself is full of puzzles just like it.

>want to watch a no glitch speedrun
>it's a tranny with an insufferable clown voice
every single time

>>748940668
Fuck no, there's one too many puzzles that require moon logic or whipping every tile for hidden paths.

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>>748940668
I think so. It's one of the few games that tells the player that the ruins exist to keep them out. You're not coddled, and the game has no shame about pulling out some shit to instantly kill you. Most games, especially modern ones, do everything to handhold your experience, so La Mulana was a breath of fresh air. It's fair in its brutality.

>>748963554
Sounds like you should watch some Game Center CX interviews.

it feels like la mulana threads have been getting worse with the years. there's so much misunderstanding of the games' terms and philosophy and straight up slander for the games disguised as "informed criticism" because a piece of software was antagonizing. too many "game design" freaks around

>>748975853
What are you saying exactly?

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Aeons ago, before /v/ had ever heard of it, I played the original and had nothing to help me aside from this horrid google translated japanese guide I had saved as a bunch of mhts because I was on dialup.

>>748940668
Not quite, but still a god tier metroidvania.

>>748966494
I read that as bestiality and was like, damn, Baphomet?

>>748976875
I saw this coming a mile away, but I flinched and it still got me.
>jump top of the sideways crusher, it stops Ruby before the wall
>"Oh whoops, better go back do-"
>top crusher drops
I wasn't even mad, that was entirely my own fault.

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Where the fuck is the Maze of Galious remake?
Where the fuck is pic related?
What the fuck is Niggoro doing?

>>748978549
nigoro is like 3 people

>>748977520
K I N O
You must have felt like dr manhattan after beating it.

I'm playing though it at the moment, the chamber of birth is cancer

>>748978549
>>748978961
Didn't they announce they had expanded to like 20 or so when they revealed La-Mulana 2 was coming out the next day? Maybe those were temporary contracts to support that game but they also did the Rose and Cameilla collection for Switch, though those aren't big games. Plus I think they said Duplex was "officially" leaving but would still help out so who knows.

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>>748978048
>was like, damn, Baphomet?
I mean, just look at her second form

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>>748978995
The maps sure were useful, but some of the hints may have made the game harder than going in blind

>>748980728
I love the map shapes in La-Mulana, both 1 and 2.
Nothing pisses me off more than a metroidvania map that's random shapes with some gaps in the middle and no sign whether you've filled it out or not. There's a few solutions to this: the classic is for the map to be a giant grid that has every square full, love that, but there's other options too — ESA gives you the irregular map outline so you know you're done when it's filled in.
But the Mulanas are the undisputed peak of this. Fuck they're good.

>>748975243
The 2014 SGDQ one is fantastic. It's not glitchless, but at the time the only glitches were like a pot clip and that's about it. They also go over a lot of the details and aren't a charisma-black-hole like that tranny-in-waiting you're talking about.

>>748940668
there's way too many puzzles that require a methodology not seen or mentioned properly anywhere else that you're just supposed to have to figure out.
For example, the stupid Backwards Man. Yes why not have a MICHAEL JACKSON reference in a game, because we all know Jackson will always be alive and will always be who people think of.
La Mulana 2 also had something retarded with a spear I think

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>>748982943
>2014 SGDQ
oof

>>748945161
The end can be, especially stuff like the hell's temple. There's a few things you'll just accidentally solve, but a lot you either have to guesswork or take a lot of notes for. Great games, but you'll have to be in the mood for. Not for everyone.

>>748945161
70% of the game is pretty straightforward. 29% of the game requires you to be paying attention and occasionally take notes, but only trips people up if they're not paying attention. 1% of the game is actual legitimate bullshit.

>>748983698
To be fair, Hells Temple is explicitly optional and tells you upfront that finding is intentionally obtuse and not worth it.

>>748983972
Worse than the "kneel down and pick up the coin" puzzle in the first game.

Had to look up a guide past garden of fools or whatever it's called, I'm ashamed and don't think I deserve to play 2

>>748940668
I want more games with platforming like La Mulana's. i love deliberate jumping mechanics, hell i even think La Mulana is a bit too generous with the whole "neutral jump and you can have full air control" thing.

>>748985082
there's a short game called leap year which is pretty good

>>748984850
for me it was the skeleton pedestal in that area that broke me, i felt retarded once i looked it up not because i thought i should've figured it out, but i felt like i should've tried pressing up there even just by accident.
Of course the game just got more and more bullshit after that point.

>>748940668
the only unfair bit is the door appearing near the water at the start after killing the fourth boss, it's just random and arbitrary without proper clue
and hell temple but that's on purpose and doesn't count

>>748985082
Have you ever played Spelunker?

>>748985082
try derelict star. not as soulful as la mulana of course but still a "precise puzzle platformer"

>>748985223
will have to check it out
>>748985310
I haven't looked too deep into early NES or older games, maybe i should.

>>748945461
>La Mulana is an easier version of Maze of Galious, its almost direct inspiration. Maze of Galious is actually bullshit.
MoG is actually quite accessible and straightforward as a proto-metroidvania. There are only like 3 secret-based "puzzles". One where you have to hit every wall in a couple of small rooms. One where you have to just idle in front of an invisible bridge for it to appear. And the most notorious is you need a secret weapon to kill the final boss, which is hidden behind a random wall block in the huge overworld map, and that one is truly 99.9% impossible without a guide.

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>The worst level is actually the best level

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The grifters got him

>>748983972
>>748984506
nah this is the best one in the game. i felt so good when i figured it out
the coin on bent knee i had to look up

>>748984506
>>748983972
Not at all, that's one of the best puzzles in the game. It's clever and makes you need to be aware of a certain thing that's been in your face all game.
I only wish Brahma was actually required and doable earlier so you could take advantage of its reward.

>>748985082
There is a mod of I wanna be the guy that changes the kid with Lemeza from the original La Mulana, jumping physics included.
https://tijit.itch.io/guy-lemeza