Whats the appeal of ironman modes/challenges? Did it come from 1cc autism? I could understand it for some short games but people do it even in long ass RPG's that are 50+ hours long. One mistake could end your entire game and then you gotta start over and over and over and over and at that point...how do you not get sick of it already?
>>748958986It could be the only way to make their most played game a bit interesting again.
Me? I only do it while role-playing in Bethesda games. I don't intend to beat the game, I just create a story for myself. As fot real ironman modes? Autism.
>>748958986The appeal is to remove the no-stakes that come with being able to save and reload at any time. Resetting from the start is only one of the consequences.
>>748958986is permadeath now called "ironman mode"? anyways, like this anon says >>748959190 but it works better with rogueLIKES because of the RNG factor and in fact it was invented by the rogue devs.
>>748959187>>748959072Oh that makes sense I didnt even think about that angle...
I never use "official" iron man modes (because it doesn't account for bugs etc) but self-imposed iron man is the only way I play any game these days. It just makes it so much more fun and immersive: you become more invested into the run and it forces you to think about the mechanics instead of just breezing through doing whatever. Permadeath runs revitalized my interest in video games after I thought I had grown out of them. Turns out it wasn't that, they had just started to feel pointless when there was no risk or feeling of penalty to anything you did. The rush you get after narrowly escaping death in a run you've invested 100+ hours into is just incredible, and even when you inevitably fuck up and lose the run makes it feel that much more meaningful.I couldn't recommend ironman/permadeath modes more.
>>748958986Autists have absorbed the hypercompetitive nature of our society. You can’t just play casually and for fun. You NEED to achieve/complete/compete, or your time is WASTED.
>>748958986it changes your decision making. it hits the hardest in games where you aren't supposed to progress through trial and error.for example when you're put in a situation where you have to resque a companion, but you aren't sure if it would kill you. usually it wouldn't make you think too much, because you can just reload. with permadeath you can't and unforseen surprises hit very hard. I had best experiences with ironman/permadeath with xcom 2, stalker anomaly and baldur's gate 3
>>748959809>Permadeath runs revitalized my interest in video games after I thought I had grown out of them. Turns out it wasn't that, they had just started to feel pointless when there was no risk or feeling of penalty to anything you did.I guess I'm lucky because my brain was wired from the start to play like my literal life is on the line in every game so I never just go guns blazing or whatever because I know I can just reload the save. And that feeling never left me.When I'm playing stealth games, I get that funny feeling in my stomach that is something in between excitement and nervousness because I could get caught and killed at any moment.I guess I just completely immerse myself no matter the game.
>>748958986>Infinite lives is cheating>Modern games give you infinite lives>Decide to stop cheating with infinite lives>WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO STOP CHEATING
>>748961170Who are you arguing with? And what do you mean "cheating with infinite lives"? Most games are not designed with ironman/permadeath modes in mind, and to "stop cheating" and complete it in one go, you literally need to know the game inside out.
>>748961642>you literally need to know the game inside outsounds like skill issue to me
>>748961642>what do you mean "cheating with infinite lives"?Infinite lives is cheating, or at least it was when I was a kid>you literally need to know the game inside outYou say that like it's a bad thing. But the real problem is, with infinite lives, you don't need to know the game at all.
>>748962958>When I was a kidGames were probably an hour long if you're talking about arcade games.Some modern titles are 80+ hours long and people do the ironman mode on those too. >>748962560>hueh git gudPreset reddit response. Hang yourself.
>>748958986For some games, like XCOM, ironman mode is the only true way to play.
>>748958986Is it really hard to understand? It really changes the way you approach the game and makes every accomplishment a lot more meaningful and makes failure meaningful as well.Sure it's not for everyone including myself but its pretty easy to understand the draw.
>>748958986You simply become so good at the game there isn't any tension left. If I savescum I know I'll win every single time and that's boring and ironman keeps the game fresh.>>748959473Ironman/permadeath/hardcore/nosavescum whatever you want to call it same thing.
Made for autistic psychopaths.There's a small group of retard who only play permadeath Grim Dawn, and I never understood why because Grim Yawn is 95% a boring snoozefest where nothing is a threat, until a rare 1% chance to spawn enemy loads up in the chunk you just walked into and fires a ranged attack from offscreen that instakills you from 100% HP. Dying and restarting from checkpoints is how games are meant to be played (yes I know they had limited lives but that was only to prevent children from beating video games they rented,) that's how the original video games played, and permadeath is fucking retarded.
>>748963428But the only way to beat a game on permadeath difficulty is to 100% know it from start to end and play cautiously without taking any risks. This is speedrunning tranny levels of mental illness.
>>748964045Not true at all. Some games force you to take risks due to random chance and you have to adapt on the fly.
>>748964045that's how retards play permadeath
>>748959473>nowI'm 30 and I learned the ironman term from my way older brother when I was a kid playing diablo 2. Me and my friends were confused why some people were calling hardcore "ironman"
>>748958986star wars wouldn't have been such a good story if Luke save scammed his hand back, you feel me? some games have replayability and allowing your dude to be suboptimal or injured due to mistakes instead of save scamming a perfect run is often critical to the game-feeling fun and immersive.
>>748958986It causes you to change strategies, find new solutions, and provides stakes to gameplay.If you don't find it fun, then you shouldn't do it.
>>748964389So it's a super-unc thing, rather than zoomer slang.
>>748958986anon, have you ever played poker with just chips vs with cash? Same idea, playing it with higher stakes introduces emotional stress, which changes the dynamics of the game. Some people enjoy those dynamics because they evoke different feelings. As a result, introducing challenges like iron man allows you to enjoy a game in a new and novel way. There some books that speculate that games can go even further than that. For instance, the game of Damage from Consider Phlebas postulates introduces deaths to innocent bystanders, and the ability to artificially bathe an opponent in specific emotions. Same author, different books (Player Of Games), introduces your social standard relying on winning in games, creating a new emotional level. Also, "body bets," where you can bet you will win against losing a limb or torture etc. Same idea as poker, just higher stakes
>>748958986if the game is fun who cares about dying and starting over
>>748958986Rogue likes are just like that. Peak autism in ever sense. A good rogue like makes you feel stupid for dying, or rewards your knowledge to let you zoom back to where you were stronger than the last time. Guides obviously help a lot too. Nobody is playing these games completely blind.
>>748959473As far as I'm aware Ironman has always referred to a no-savescum/reload run. Permadeath is optional.
>>748963476Is that the Buck Rogers UI?
>>748958986To make ur playthrough actually have stakes. If you can just save reload every bad situation, everything becomes mind-numbingly boring
>>748967203>no-savescum/reload run. Permadeath is optional.What's the difference then?
I only do it for games that are designed around it. In traditional roguelikes for example, the gameplay loop is often basically to tactically react to different situations, with RNG having to factor into your decisions.This is fun but would be utterly boring without permadeath, for roughly the same reason as playing blackjak with fictional money would be very boring if you could savescum.I do not get why you would do this for games not explicitly designed for it, though. For these people, it is probably just autism, like with speedrunners.
>>748967395Not all games have death as a lose condition. Some of them might have death penalties or rotating PCs.
>>748959552Kek
>>748967467So you're saying you can still reload as much as you want, so long as you die? Like when are you not allowed to reload in practice then?
>>748963320yeah, though XCOM isn't a central example. You can often recover from losing operators
>>748967564No, I'm saying that there's games which do not end or even kick you back to the title screen when you lose/die.
>>748967616Ok, so you just 'play on' in all circumstances and only save to quit and come back.
>>748967650Yeah, take XCOM just mentioned, it's perfectly possible to get into a FUBAR situation without losing. Though I imagine most would call it and start a new save. Then there's blobbers like Crusader Kings, games like M&B...
>>748958986You need to have above a 70 IQ to understand how concepts like 'challenge', 'efficiency', and 'consequence' have value and add depth to an experience.Do not worry your little brown brain about it. Just install a godmode mod and play your little power fantasy.
>>748958986It's a fun challenge when you've already played through your favorite game several times and want to freshen it up a little. It also often forces you to play more strategically and actually make use of your resources instead of, say, just reloading after a bad encounter where you survived but lost a lot of health and don't want to waste healing items.
>>748967203>>748967745So i guess something like dark souls is already an "ironman challenge" or whatever?
>>748958986It's because normally the base game is too easy. I enjoy Ironman in stalker because it makes you play totally differently, when you can die and reload you take big risks, in ironman you don't and that keeps it interesting.
