It is time for role-playing games to grow up.https://www.pcgamer.com/games/rpg/kingdom-come-deliverance-studio-co-founder-says-a-lot-of-rpgs-are-still-games-for-teenagers-and-that-hes-tired-of-all-the-rpgs-where-you-are-this-chosen-one/
>>749042904
>>749042904>WagnerVery interesting last name.
>>749042952
>>749042904he needs them to be mature so they can depict gay sex
>I'm sick and tired of games where cool shit happens.>we need more games where nothing happens.
>>749043065It is called mature fiction for adults.
>>749042904I'm tired of seeing this guy takes.I really, really miss the times where devs spoken rarely and only in exceptional cases.
>>749042904Part of growing up is realizing that all the shit you though was cool when you were 12 still is.Wanting to appear "mature" and "adult" is prime teenage mentality.
>>749043138>hey remember that scene in MW2 where the city gets nuked and you die and you cant change anything?>I want every game like that.
>>749042904what an asinine take why would I want to play as average joe
>>749042904Nty. As a kid, I thought planes and mechs were cool. As an adult, I still find them cool but mechs are just not a viable war machine platform because physics says FUCK YOU.
This is entirely aimed at the JRPG audience, isn't it? Those aren't even the biggest sellers anymore besides Persona. And half of the shit on the market isn't chosen one shit, it's protags stumbling into their events just like Henry. What an empty, baseless proclamation.
>>749043138BasedHRPGs is really where its at.Fucking love mature fiction.
>>749042952>>749043026>hates on Dark Lord plots>thinks the average rpg is Everquest>starts babbling about development in unrelated genresSometimes simplicity is king, 50 million plots about taking down the Shadowlord beats out 50 million deconstructions of the hero's journey.If he were a writer that's worth a damn he'd start asking himself why people still love things like knight's errant even though we don't get knight's errant stories anymore
>>749042904What's with all these "not like the other girls" developers? Video games are for children, you are not superior to any of the others
>>749042904youre literally the chosen one in kingdom come?
>>749043253YupSame shit for the recent green lantern show, retards acted like >Finally, a mature comic show for mature people such as myselfNigger, all we wanted was to see Hal Jordan using the ring in space
So what does he want to be? A fat loser with a game journo job?
>>749042979you mean Hitler's favorite composer?
I dont understand these interviews that have like 2 paragraphs of quotations.Like, thats a tweet. They dont link to any actual interview.
>>749042904Snatching defeat out of the jaws of victory kinda argument right there.I can certainly agree that chosen one stories are utterly trite and rarely written decently to any degree, but as far as power fantasy go they're if anything less offensive than most other trope.It's much easier to believe that someone with a divine gift can go zero to hero within a playthrough and smash everything from goblin to god than it is to see Henry go from village retard to slayer of armies within a timeframe of what, 1 year? 2?KCD is a gta tier power fantasy, and he's absolutely and utterly deluded if he thinks otherwise.
>>749042952>a typical fantasy RPG is like Progress Quest, a parody of Everquest and other MMORPGsWhat a terrible take. It's an opinion I'd expect out of someone who has played a few RPGs and then decided that every single one must be exactly like those three he played.
>>749042904he acts like WRPGs aren't the same kind of repetitive shit but with a different wrappereverything has been done homeboy, just pick a lane and shut up
>>749044141>It's much easier to believe that someone with a divine gift can go zero to hero within a playthrough and smash everything from goblin to god than it is to see Henry go from village retard to slayer of armies within a timeframe of what, 1 year? 2?it really is comical how game mechanics and design basically encourage players to minmax activities and optimize their Henry, and soon enough some drunk young slob of a shitter is able to go become a superhero because he autistically picks every lock, trains for a few minutes each day in multiple disciplines and arts, talks to everybody to handle the most arbitrary shit, and carries a reserve of schnapps in his pockets he always drinks before a big shitstorm that he always overcomes outside of plot hijacks. they wanted KCD to be seen as a more realistic take and instead it's more like an unintended deconstruction of the idea of even trying to be a realistic protag in an RPG when mechanics inherently make you unrealistic.
>>749042952>>749043026>plays nothing but garbage has opinion based on garbage, makes garbage games himself.hmmmmmmm.
>>749042904KCD2 really made him a gigafaggot, didn't it?
>>749042904Whether or not you're the chosen one has nothing to do with who the game is aimed at.
>>749043467>>749043467>If he were a writer that's worth a damn he'd start asking himself why people still love things like knight's errant even though we don't get knight's errant stories anymore>you're a knight but you're also some random villager's errand boy bitch.every single video game has this shit. they're called side quests.
>>749044763Errant means 'wandering', anon, it's not a misspelling of 'errand'. It's tied into chivalric romance stories
I think this is why I'm kind of getting tired of western media, everyone who works in western media seems to be obsessed with "yea, but what if the protags are boring and lame and generic and it's just a mundane story where nothing of any importance happens to any of the main cast because who wants to see a story about going on an adventure and accomplishing grand feats?"It's just so retarded. Maybe it's a good thing that the EU is going to kill western gaming in the near future if this is all that's left of it.
>>749042904>makes you the chosen one who saves the jews, a literal messiah, in kingdom cum 2
It isn't enough to make reality shit, your escapist outlets should also be shit.We want you to live in a constant state of shit. Just shit. A straight line of shit.
>>749044651
This guy is such a massive fag these days holy shit
>>749045086I think one issue with modern western writers is that so many of them are deathly afraid of writing anything that comes across as campy or corny.
>>749044651Kek reminds me of that clip in STALKER where a bandit vaults over a railing, crouch runs into your face and smacks you with the butt of the gun, killing you
>>749042904I want an RPG where I play as an Indian so I can experience being irrelevant
>>749045435Which is ironic because even when they're trying to avoid it they STILL end up writing shit that's campy, corny, and dorky.Largely because most of these writers are lame theater kid faggots who don't realize that their idea of "cool" and "interesting" is lame, corny, and dorky to almost everyone else, including traditional nerds.
>man i hate chosen one stories with generic dark lords, where's the working man underdog>Henry is a bastard son of a noble that can save the land from an evil noble manipulating everyone to get his way
ah yes gay sex so mature
>repeating old commiefornia shit from the late-00slmao
the issue with western writers is that they can't take anything serious, if i want classic hero stories about saving the say and getting the girl and i want you to write it completely serious and go balls deep into being sincere.The moment i hear any quip or joke i am done with something and don't care anymore because the writers didn't care.
>>749042904This is such a retarded take, do you think people want to read books or watch tv and movies about some fucking neet faggot who just sits at home all day? The main character is almost always unique and special because otherwise there's no fucking story. So why is this stupid nigger going after games and saying they're not allowed to do that.>"just handing you a power fantasy is immature!"Then don't make games where your character is overpowered at the start of the game. This nigga is bitching about nothing and subtly revealing his secret cuck tendencies
>male protagonist yawnirrelevancy of the highest orderanyways
just write a book you nordic nigger god damn
>>749045814>nordicThe guy's an east euro jew.
The problem is that people who think like this don't have the balls to make a game that follows through with the entire progression.They'll write in the story that you're not the chosen one, but you go on to make a bigger impact on the game's world over the course of a few months than a president would. You solve everything, you mingle in every faction, you deal with all sorts of people you should never even get to meet with your humble beginnings, you do everything there is to do and see everywhere there is to see. But you're just a normal guy though.It's like how western devs made "everyday guy" protagonists such as Nathan Drake to get away from that same trope, but when I watch a japanese person playing Uncharted they (and their chats) always immediately react to his physical feats by calling him a superman, and talking about how much of a hero character he is.If you're gonna make your protagonist a borderline divinity, it makes more sense for the story to treat him like one. Go make point n click adventures if you want to tell a story about a dude who meets a couple of people and works a boring job.
>>749042904so they are putting more underage fag shit in their new game?
>>749045746People actually do like reading boring crap where nothing happens, it's slice of life. There are even lots of games in this genre, mostly targeting autistic germans, like forklift simulators.
>>749042904Gypsy kike thread
>>749045006>Errant means 'wandering', anon, it's not a misspelling of 'errand'. It's tied into chivalric romance storiesi didnt say errant MEANS errand. but a knight errant absolutely wanders around doing errands.
>>749043253
>>749046338My fault for leaving the autists out of the conversation kek. Normies love spectacle and to be put on the kiddie roller coaster, such a shame those goyniggers and their consooming determines industry trends
>>749042904We already got RPG of the decade last year and it handled all of that perfectly without being a shitty deconstruction/subversion.
>>749042904N-no! I'm the chosen anime high-schooler!I'm the coolest, hottest dude who totally deserves a harem of women drastically out of my league!
>>749042904I don't know why retards even say that in interviews, like is it hard to say>I dislike choosen one and teenagers rpgs but i am happy for people that like itWhy go like it's a sin to make games like that?
>>749046630>deserveAre games supposed to be about what we deserve now?Not about what's fun?
>>749042904This is why I can't get into Jrpgs
>>749042904These people just hate games like the rest of them. They got high off their own farts with the first game's success and went full mask off since.
>>749046579you could say Look Outside is a subversion of eldritch horror by making the monsters relatable with personalities, with some even being cooperative and genuinely fond of the player
>>749042904>bitch about muh chosen one>HENRY PROTECT THOSE JEWS FROM THE GOYS
>>749046630Yes correct, not like kingdom come is realistic and not like thet too
>>749043065Cool shit can still happen, you dont need to kill God at the end. I think its an over used trope in games. >>749043609He would be eating those words now. When its people getting high all day with multiple tats, wearing adventure time shirts. They cant even pose as respectable adults and enjoy fun, they just have to be childish and impulsive in all aspects. >>749042952I think he's right, grounded stories can have deeper and more coherent stories narratively if they stray away from the chosen one and killing God. Usually all fantasy fall prey into railroading the story into the big bad actually being a god like figure.
>>749046338There is a difference between making a game dedicated to doing something like being immigration inspector or farmer, and being an adventurer. Those games are specifically dedicated to doing that thing and don’t try to promise one thing while delivering another. People would be pissed if they opened something like Stardew Valley and suddenly it became cowadooty, even if they like both games they opened up Stardew to play Stardew.
>>749046949>Cool shit can still happen, you dont need to kill God at the end. I think its an over used trope in games.Say 10 in the last 10 years
>>749046819Almost all of the "friendly" monsters are actually your neighbors. It's less of a subversion and more of a novel way to give you cool npcs and build up the setting.
>>749047041Thinking about it, not even SMTV has you killing God at the end and SMT is basically the poster boy for 'teenager rises up and kills God'.
>>749046949>grounded storiesCodeword for boring slop for women.
>>749047258Art imitates life
So they want to punish player skill with writing and say nu-uh nothing you do matters, we're grown up like that! >Player can influence the outcome of the story >That means player is the chosen oneVs>Everything is shit>Therefore it's mature>Take the humiliation ritual pill you fucking gymIs this the choise they think they are having?
>>749042904In Oblivion from 2006 you're not the chosen one
>>749042904Look, it's fine to want more realistic stories in fiction, nothing wrong with doing things in the style of the KCD games.But there's a reason people like more traditional fantastical tales about someone rising above impossible odds to save the day.It's fun to fill the role of 'the guy' and save the world from ruin.
>>749042904I agree. I want to play more adults in RPGs doing adult things.
>>749047165The entire witcher series is more grounded except the ciri shit in 3. Kimgdom come, youre just a retard peasant.
>>749047771>Witcher>groundedlmao so your idea of grounded is le grey n gritty dead and tired fad.
>>749042904>>749042952>hey i made this thing where you're miserable and don't enjoy yourself, pay 60 dollars for it now
>>749042904Chosen one narratives ARE gay though.
>>749047771A peasant that can defeat knights and shit in a span of 2 games
>>749047881The game doesn't stop you from walking up to behind a knight in full plate and knocking him out in the first 30 minutes of the game after you leave the tutorial. Which means Henry is capable of knocking someone out in a plate helmet from the beginning it's ridiculous
Fish swim, jews subvert.
>>749042979You mean the pizza's?
OH MY GOYSUS CHRIST ITS THE CHOSEN ONE
>I'm so sick of [thing]!>No, I'm not going to give any examples, because then people could refute my gut feeling about games I've never playedReally sick of these opinion pieces,
>>749042979Big..Boss?
>>749046351Peter Parker is Jewish-coded tho
>>749043026>Ubisoft>pretty much bug-freeWtf is he on drugs?Ubisoft games are horribly bugged. I had multiple crashes also with them even when I picked them up after years of patches.
>>749046348>Your white hand isn't as pale and sunless as my white hand!Is that what cumskins use as an own these days?
>>749045746>do you think people want to read books or watch tv and movies about some fucking neet faggot who just sits at home all day?Those can be entertaining in small doses though.
>>749047080>Almost all of the "friendly" monsters are actually your neighborsyeah exactly
>>749042904Why would I want to listen to anything from the studio who put fag sex and a literal WEWUZ gary stu character into middle-ages Bohemia?Fuck off.
>>749043138It's called edgy shit for 16-22 year olds.
ragebait thread #214567
>>749042904Isnt kingdom come about starting as a shitty poor guy BUT ACTUALLY you're the son of some super important famous and powerful guy and you ascend from poverty to being a noble doing all sorts of important shit shaping the world?How is that any different then being a "chosen one" when its the same fucking thing?
>>749048421Exactly what? It's not a subversion, It's just a different way doing it.
>>749048927>It's just a different way of doing ityeah exactlythe monsters are actually friendly and they're your neighborsobviously its semantics at the end of the day, but since you have an aversion to the term subversion you are less willing to label things you like as themsubversion is not deconstruction
>>749042904Chosen one / prophecy / save the world stories are annoying in RPGs and often contradict the way that most people like to play RPGs, I.E. slowly. Baldurs Gate 3 is a prime example of this. The story tells you that you're a ticking time bomb and the world is gonna get mind raped if you don't rush to save it, but the gameplay makes you want to explore every possible corner of the world, exhaust every bit of dialog with every NPC you meet, and do every sidequest available. The story and gameplay are directly at odds with each other and it's annoying for the entire game.Compare that to Underrail. In Undertail, the story is just "Welcome to our nice city state in the wasteland, we're gonna need you to do some grunt work and pull your weight if you want to stay here." And that fits perfectly with typical open ended RPG gameplay.
>>749045814That is probably part of the problem, western creatives in gaming seem to think they are just temporarily embarrassed bestselling book authors or Hollywood screenwriters.
>>749047258who is this?
>>749043151This, all they have to say is that they like videogames. However it seems like this guy just doesnt like videogames.
>>749049194There's more to subversion than just "doing things differently" look outside is a horror game where you fight and interact with monsters. It's part of the genre.
>>749042904>Why are stories focused around the pivotal players in whatever is unfolding? Why aren't more stories focused on random ass niggas!?Dumb ass takes like this are why video game stories are still behind most books.
>>749047748You can be an adult chosen one
>>749050461it subverts the common trope of monsters being enemies by having some monsters be your friends. I don't know why this is so hard to grasp for you.
>>749046819>>749049194Friendly monsters are not a subversion by themselves
>>749042904The culture war they started continues
>>749050773Never said you couldn't. I just want to stop doing things the kids way. Age up the characters. Get into some deeper topics. I enjoy the power of friendship like most people, but ti's been done to death.
>>749042904>ugh I don't like things that works>time to extremely poorly attempt to reinvent the wheel
>>749042904Consuming a diverse selection of media always exposes what massive pseuds the people who post these kinds of takes are.
>>749047375I feel a lot of RPGs actually aren't "the chosen one call to action" story.
>>749050967Final Fantasy IX is not a horror game
>>749047375The emperor literally saw the mc in his dreams bro, we are not THE chosen one but we are a chosen one in Oblivion
>>749051247Queen Brahne scared the shit out of mee though
Chuds really will get mad at literally anything, wont they?
>>749051516Seethesister...
>>749051238It's really more the guy bitching about a primary hero that must save the world from the evil dark lord stuff and the power fantasy of being the lone person that can make the difference, that it's all for teens and is holding back the medium. Despite the fact that his own shit in KCD falls into virtually a lot of the exact same tropes and just forces you to do silly crap to reach that same point for saving an entire region from schemers and, for the first game, a literal darwinistic evil "THE STRONGEST DOG FUCKS THE BITCHES" lord.It's the pot calling the kettle black while being like that gacha meme image of "they don't understand, my game is different from everybody else".
>>749051516Everyone gets mad at literally everything
>>749050860NTA but that doesnt really track in look outside with how things are presented. The cursed are like sick people some are hostile some aren't.
>>749051587>A primary hero saving the region is storytelling for teensNigga that is ALL of storytelling throughout 99% of HOSTORY
>>749042904if your not the chosen one, the new king, the leader, the hero. then what you just a random cuck that fixes things and just watches on the sideline while other characters do the cool shit and get all the praise.
>>749042904Yeah chosen one shit is gay what's the problem here? Don't you retards want more inspirational stories because you're so worried about being demoralized or whatever? Average joes becoming heroes is way more inspirational than getting handpicked by the divine to win
>>749051639yeah exactly
>>749050860If you want to break it down to that level of simplicity then that distinction essentially becomes meaningless.
>>749051639>The cursed are like sick people some are hostile some aren't.Also NTA but that itself is a subversion anon, in 99% of games the monsters are totally bad but in look outside you can actually talk to some and some are cool, that its a subversion to the normal trope that horror games do
Then what are teenagers supposed to play?
>>749051719>"Look chudigguloid. I could definitely write a better story than that zamniphobe Frank Herbert!">As a matter for fact, xhe could not
>>749051784I broke it down to that level to better illustrate my point. For a horror game, especially an eldritch and existential horror game, having monsters be friendly and relatable is certainly a subversion in my book. Of course, like all literary criticism, whatever value you get from those distinctions is entirely up to you.
>>749051685There are many stories like that though. Lord of the Rings for example. Yes we have Aragorn the king of men claiming his birthright and delivering the final battle against Sauron's evil but everyone needed brave Frodo and Sam to actually win the day. Go back to Homer's tales, Odysseus and Achilles are the big two characters of his epics. You can do a lot with stories and games without the main character being the stereotypical chosen one who does everything.
>>749051719Most modern RPGs, chosen one or not, ARE just some shmuck that gets wrapped up in the most insane shit possible and has to rise up from the bottom of the totem pole to the hero (or shitwrecking destroyer in the bad path) above all.
A trope being present or absent has no bearing on its quality. Much less the quality of an entire medium.
>>749052130Nooooo you need to judge the product by the tropes not by the quality of the product
>>749042904>sick of players being the chosen one>makes a game where you are the chosen one
>>749051817Look, chud, having a target audience of anyone other than arrested development gendersludge tumblrgoyim is evil! EVIL!!!!
>>749052176Every day I wake up and thank God I never caught the mental disease that causes me to perceive all stories through a lens of tropes.
>>749046338Thats a completely different genre altogether.
>>749042904>>749042952>>749043026>journalist actually notices that AAA is just the same few games getting made over and over>Craftmanshipwise, [Ubisoft's] games are excellent.So close, but yet so far.
>>749052561Journo scum almost had an original thoughtthankfully, the npc programming kicked back in
>>749042904tired of when youre the chosen one meanwhile henry is a peasant that all the nobles immediately like and dont care about all the dumb shit he does against their will
>>749042904>complains about rpgs where your character is the chosen one>makes a game where your character is secretly the son of the biggest baron in the field who's also in the midst of the country's largest war in historythis is why western writers are considered a joke. kojima would never make this mistake.
At this point making something genuine is more subversive than subversion.
If I was writing a new RPG I would ban the word "prophecy" and its equivalents from all discussions. The player character is NOT expected.
>>749042904>>749042952>>749043026He's entirely correct.
>>749052040frodo is the choosen one, and sam choosen one's side piece.>OdysseusLitterally just the wise choosen one forced against his will to join a war>Achilles>not the chosen one, mother is a god, literally bathes him in a river for immortality.No hero, no choose one here at all.
>>749053831Erm erm erm erm what the zamnigroidErm erm erm erm what the iggulood
When it comes to historical war stories, nobody remembers the first guy to get his shit blown off or the hundreds of thousands of fodder that died or the various survivors that did nothing to doing 'okay'.People make stories and movies about the 1 in a million case scenarios. The shit where a guy survives a bombing on his base camp, hides in the wilderness near enemy territory eating raw squirrel meat, then kills fiddy men in the night after raiding their weapon cache, just to make it home in one piece and REDEPLOY. Now, obviously an MC doesn't need to be a 'choosen one' but they do need to be exceptional and defy the odds.
