What makes JRPGs superior to western RPGs?
>>749545525not every character in them is a bitter sarcastic asshole for one
>>749545525female representation
>>749545721they all talk like one piece characters instead, much better
>>749545876Yes?
>>749545525An actual comparison, this is just in general and exceptions might be there on any side:WRPGs- focus on player agency- dialogue is more natural, flows better - due to the focus on player agency, narratives can be lacking - diversity of character archetypes - recently, bad character designs JRPG- focus on narrative over player agency- characters are tropey- anime dialogue - higher stakes usually (eg killing god)- great character designs
>>749545792Both do a lot of that
they are games, not movies
>>749545525big tits, big ass, lolis, no ugly bitches
>>749546318You have it twisted
>>749545525>better plots and character arcs, stuff isn't about killing the evil wizard or obtaining the macguffin from the getgo>better designed, can't softlock yourself out of important builds and has better combat>better art direction and music, old games aren't an eyesore and earsore like WRPGs are. Diversity in music genres like progressive rock and jazz instead of just being generic orchestral medieval/folk music
>>749545721JRPGfags are the ones pushing for more bitter sarcastic assholes, retard.
I just want japanese CRPGs.
>>749546092>dialogue is more naturalIt's not, japanese voice acting is so far above western voice acting that it's not even remotely in the same league. Western voice acting is the regionals, but japanese voice acting is like the twinkle series. For some reason nips can into emotion, I can't recall the last time I ever heard a western voice actor scream loudly in rage or fear. Maybe they use different mics or something? But it's not my problem, the fact remains that it's not even close.
>>749545525I can't play jRPG anymore. Nips can't into writing now. There won't be jRPG like Xenogears.
>>749546824Only in DQ threads do you see this phenomenon of people complaining they're too "bland" although I don't exactly think people are asking for more marvel quips when they make that complaint
>>749547045by natural, they mean that it is faithful to its western fantasy novel or tabletop roots. they don't act japanese in it
>>749545525Nothing, they're aiming for different things despite being in the same genre technically.Really, the problem with CRPG was that since 00's-10's they were pretty much entirely an AAA game carried by Bioware and Obsidian plus an occasional straggler whereas JRPG were always full of AA and indie offerings. And those AAA companies were GOAT at the time, but variety counts for a lot. Maybe it's because CRPG was a computer genre in a console-dominated landscape, maybe it's just that player agency is harder to do.Now things are more balanced, I guess? I've seen quite a few AA and indie CRPGs, though in return AAA kinda died instead, besides a few survivors like Larian. I guess JRPG don't have the same problem with AAA, or at least not to the same extent. And obviously indie is fine in the age of indie. AA has problems, but it has problems in the West too anyway, and Gust still exists somehow.So yeah, JRPG just has less problems with variety of niches for whatever reason. But it's an economic problem, not the genre one.
>>749547053Xenogears isn't well written either
>>749545525>>749546318in opposite day....
>>749547053>Nips can't into writing now>nowThey never were good at writing. Are you going to tell me the story about the amnesiac tard whose gf was impaled by the one winged angel was anything but sheer garbage that only impressed people because they were teenagers and didn't know any better? JRPGs were always written by D- tier hacks who couldn't cut in the anime/manga industry
>>749545525If I want a dungeon crawler like Wizardry or Final Fantasy I have a few options yearly.If I want a faux D&D dungeon crawler I don't. Fuck every fucking WRPG that tries to be the hundred sessions tabletop experience your DM could never give.
>>749547837>who couldn't cut in the anime/manga industryAnime and manga aren't well written either, aside from few exceptions
>>749545525Cute girls
>>749546092>WRPGs>- focus on artificial choice and consequence>- narratives be lacking >- bad character designs >>JRPG>- focus on bloated and convoluted narrative>- anime dialogue >- great character designsftfy
>>74954694980s PC JRPGs had a lot in common with WRPGs.
Elly sexo
>>749546092>high stakesYou mean the same recycled garbage cliche that actually demotes even games that were going in an interesting direction with its villain for the same old crap we have seen 900 times? (See Persona 5)>great character designsNot always, the garbage asymmetric everything with swords the size of cinderblocks looks lame as hell
when does xenogears get good. I don't care about bart incest wedding (I don't even care about japanese cousin fucking but it's just more of bart and his subcast is boring as all hell). I just wanna know more about fei, elly, why tf there's a painting of elly in the church and fei dumbass being like "huh....it looks like elly" bitch it literally is her. the gameplay is filtering me hard but good lord everytime the story gets interesting, they just drop the plot for more somethingsomething pirates, civil war, and cousin incest or something. I got to the part where they're on the boat. please tell me that bart stays out.
>>749545525Pantyhose.
>>749545525Better gameplayBetter visualsBetter musicBetter storyIdk why western games even still exist at this point
>>749547192They are. That is the audience for EN dragon quest.
>>749545525Name one Jrpg past PS2 that is superior to western rpgs. You can't.
>>749550262Even some dogshit like Metaphor is better than whatever bioware is shitting out these days.
>>749550262Devil Survivor
Far superior gameplay, depth of system, articulation of combat, soulful music, actual endgame and superbosses, kino art direction and art style. WRPG are fucking jewified dogshit that's obsessed with turning children into trannies with 0 positive gameplay qualities.
>>749545525Hopefully xenogears gameplay isnt that bad
>>749550979it's kinda mid
>>749545525Literally nothing.JRPGs are the worst genre on earth, extremely linear and no system depth to make up for it for the vast majority of them. SaGa games are an exception, Tri-Ace jarpigs too but otherwise it's the bottom of the barrel.TRPGs are much better overall but jrpgs don't even come close to wrpgs as videogames.
>>749553318>extremely linearokay but what does nonlinearity do for a game other than encouraging pointless bloat?
>>749553175Mid is good enough
>>749553602Not him but JRPGs have bloat as a feature. The endless enemy encounters when you walk from point A to B, be it random encounters or enemies that block the path or dash towards you triggering an encounter, and those fights aren't tough, those are a huge portion of many JRPGs and they're 100% filler content, padding.
>>749553692Moot point when most WRPGs also have some from of random encounter system even if it's not quite as obtrusive. Although the lack of obtrusiveness makes it even more pointless. At least you can make the case that random encounters are trying to resource drain you in JRPGs. In WRPGs you're scarcely ever locked into combat and can just ignore the enemies.
>>749546092/threadalthough jrpgs always have much much better music
>>749553602A good game has to be non linear or offer systems with depth (or both) if it wants to be good as a videogame. That's how you favor interaction. Outer Wilds isn't bloated and is as non linear as they come, no player will have the same playthrough. Most jrpgs not only have very poor systems (combat, for most of them) but they offer very little when it comes to interactivity, everyone will have the exact same experience and the only thing that will change will be the order they chose to do pointless sidequests that are completely self contained anyway.Icycalm completely dismantled this genre almost 20 years ago, what he said remains true :https://web.archive.org/web/20120309040154/http://insomnia.ac/commentary/on_role-playing_games/
>>749553908>resource drainCome on, those games aren't tough at all, don't pretend this is some deep survival mechanic at all. Look at Bravely Default, the game gave the player and encounter slider, if this isn't a clear case of some devs understanding the way encounters are designed is retarded and some people would rather opt out of, what is it then? Nobody plays a game where the enjoy the combat and decides to skip it entirely. It is because in those games it is shallow, boring, a waste of time. It is purely filler, that's how you achieve 400hours playtime, by inundating the player with endless monster encounters to no end, and the funny party is that it often makes no sense. You exit a JRPG village and boom 2 seconds later you're fighting a 3 metres tall ogre. I take the village must be completely self sufficient in everything, because it must not get any trading caravans with massive monsters at everyone's door. You can forget being able to go near a river to get some water too. Many overworlds in JRPGs are so crowded with monsters it basically makes them an apocalyptical world despite not addressing this elephant in the room
It’s an accepted canon that crpgs are deeper and more challenging than jrpgs even though they are by and large completely broken and unbalanced, including the highly acclaimed ones. It’s always the best the genre has to offer being pitted against the worst jrpg but the former are still very bad games. But you’re just “role playing” correctly if you demonstrate how easy it is to break the game systems apart.
>>749545525It's time for the montly East vs West thread already?! WOOHOO, TOO COOL! There's nothing that gives me as much of a boner as making reductive and over generalised arguments and statements about games I don't play or bother to analyse in much detail!
>>749545525>play a popular JRPG>it's about tackling ugly social issues>awesome, finally something fresh>get to the final chapter>evil god was behind everythingFOR FUCK'S SAKE
>>749554210Okay but does nonlinearity add to a game other than pointless bloat?>>749554486You've never even a played a JRPG if you think 400 hour playthroughs happen. The vast majority of them don't go for more than 35 hoursI do disagree with mechanics that allow the player to turn off random encounters, albeit in BDs case it was somewhat justified by that game's bullshit structure that basically forces you to beat the entire game like 5 times in a row to get to the actual final boss as well as all the extra bosses being pretty fucking hard even if you're at full power
>>749555616>Okay but does nonlinearity add to a game other than pointless bloat?Yes, respecting the interactive nature of videogames through nonlinearity is literally the most meaning-heavy choice you can make as a developer. If you ever perceived non linearity as bloating, it's because it was Mass Effect 3's ending tier of nonlinearity : fake choices and vastly similar progression across playthrough.Outer Wilds is a great example of perfect non linearity.
>>749545525
>>749555616It's called an exaggeration, the point is simple, most of the playing hours in those JRPGs are spent with encounters that aren't challenging or meaningful. How many of your playtime hours were spent with this shit in a JRPG? That's the amount of filler the game had. is it half of the playtime?To make matters even worse, JRPGs often offer very little interactivity outside of the story, save some exception like Golden Sun's puzzles, but as I said they are the exception and not the rule.
>>749555796Nonlinearity is most often paired with level scaling in WRPGs, meaning there's no point in going anywhere or doing anything and you may as well skip all the optional content as there's no real reward for doing any of it. Everything will just get more powerful to compensate for any rewards you receive.Even without level scaling, no RPG can offer true branching paths with every path offering significant gameplay and level differences because of the amount of development time that would require.So as it manifests in practice, non-linearity is simply a series of meaningless isolated checkboxes you have to fulfill before the game lets you progress to the next set of checkboxes. Players will find the route that grants them the most resources and make the game linear in practice regardless. At that point just cut out the middleman and make a linear game with more focus and intentional design.>>749556207Yeah but again, moot point, because again, the same is true of WRPGs unless you somehow find the ten billionth Talon Mercenary ambush in Fallout 3 enjoyable after all this timeThe reaction to all the bullshit with JRPGs led to Fromsoft games.Where's the Dark Souls of WRPGS?
>>749556458>Where's the Dark Souls of WRPGS?I'm still waiting for nips to produce immersive sims.
>>749556458Fromsoft games are mostly action-focused games with stats, funnily enough with certain builds at first, they offer more character specialization than the vast majority of JRPGs that have what, zero choice in character building? You just level and numbers go up automatically.
>>749556458>Nonlinearity is most often paired with level scaling in WRPGBethesda bro...
>>749556897Happens in Bioware garbage tooNever played stuff like Diablo but I wouldn't be surprised if it was also there
>>749557001>Happens in Bioware garbage tooBG1 and 2 don't have level scaling, NWN doesn't level scale either, the nonlinearity depends entirely on the module being played. Post NWN games like DAO have set parameters for level scaling, there's a minimum and maximum level they'll be at for each map and encounter. Diablo 1 and 2 don't level scale, not sure about 3 and 4. But yeah, fuck Todd and fuck Bethesda. Their games aren't popular for any quality beyond the sandbox.
>>749557712Not him but I think Bethesda games are all average at best. I think they are some of the least immersive games ever made, look at Morrowind, they don't know how to use the keyword system of dialogue properly. You have NPCs across the map giving the same canned response to the same word "blah blah blah, outlander", this is a game with no voice acting so this is just lazy writing, low effort. Quests also do not offer much choice, for example: I did one for the Mage's guild about some spy, talking to a dozen NPCs, most have the some "Not me" response besides one of them. They might as well say "beep boop, wrong button", there's not a single NPC that feels remotely like a living being. Oblivion also has similar issues, enhanced by the 2 voice actors doing the voice for countless NPCs, uncanny valley conversations, and then you have other issues like how all dungeon interiors look the exact same, the same hanging bones asset in them, but the rooms rearranged in a different manner, in an open world game that kills any drive for me to explore, it's the same trash all over again.
>>749547714It is, even though has flaws. Compared to modern jRPG games it's a masterpiece.
>>749558860Anon, I agree with you 100%. Fuck Todd.
>>749545525head trauma
>>749547192look son, one of my favorite gmaes and favorite JRPGs which is coincidentally conssidered one of the est if not outright best game of its series has a cast full of sarcastic assholes.Is not only DQfags pushing for this shit.
>>749559942>Compared to modern jRPG games it's a masterpiece.Agreed
Honest question:>American RPGs are just called RPGs>Japanese RPGs are called JRPGS>Strategy RPGs are called SRPGs>Korean RPGs are called KRPGS>Computer RPGs are called CRPGsWhat do you call Chinese RPGs? Indian RPGs? Nigerian? Russian?
>>749559942No, it isn't, because it's really not fun to play, the first disc isn't interesting, and most of what happens in the second disc is simply told to you instead of being something you can experienceEven something as banal as SRW Endless Frontier shits over Xenogears for the sheer fact that it at least has an interesting and innovative combat system
>>749560984If they actually made RPGs, it would be a problem. But they don't.>B-but what about-They don't make RPGs.
>>749560984It's not RPGs from America specifcally, we just call RPGs from Europe and the Americas RPGs because thats our norm, they're typically more culturally familiar if you're from an english speaking country.With Chinese RPGs it depends on the genre since generally they make a lot of cultivator(wuxia and xianxia) based rpgs or just ape the aeshetics of japanese games. But there isn't a general abbreviation for them, Chinese RPG will suffice. Same goes for Indian and Nigerian RPGs, just call them exactly that. Russian games have a long history of being called Slavjank in general, not sure what it's like for Americans but if you grew up in Europe I'm pretty sure you've played a russian game at least once. There's not specific abbreviation since Russian games, despite being culturally slav as fuck, take inspiration from western sources like the original Fallout series, Baldur's Gate 1, Quake etc.
>>749561543>what happens in the second disc is simply told to you instead of being something you can experienceIt still has more gameplay and interactivity than Persona 5 or Trails in the Sky anon,
>>749561778>SlavjankI like this word. I'm going to start using this.
>>749561543>the first disc isn't interestingBait
>>749561850That's not really saying anything at all.
>>749545721>what are tsunderes
>>749550262jRPGs peaked on PS1 though.
>>749560984Fucking nothing, not enough presence in the gaming sphere to warrant a different name.
>>749561954tsunderes aren't typically sarcasticI also cannot actually think of a JRPG featuring one anyway except for worst girl Maribel in DQVII I guess
>>749549973from soul to anime garbage, is that the evolution of Wizardry?
>>749562206>I also cannot actually think of a JRPG featuring oneMythra from XB2
>>749545525Gameplay. D&D is pure garbage and it ruins WRPGs like BG3.
>>749562037this, it's been mostly downhill since then with less than 5 exceptions
