We will never see games like this again, Lost World killed this Modern Sonic and it doesnt seem like Sega will ever bring it back.
LMFAO UNLEASHED SUCKED
>>749574852Games too pure for this world
Does Blaze wear pants or not
>>749574852I don't understand the unleashed glazing. All people ever talk about is the CGI opening
>>749574852>We will never see games like this againPic related came out like two years ago.>>749575507Sonicfags will defend a mediocre/shitty game with their life if they happen to like the presentation.
Unleashed Recompiled was way, WAY better than Generations.
>>749575028>>749575507>>749578217What sucked about Unleashed?
>>749580173Awful pacing, pointless progression gates, constant QTEs, boring werehog gameplay, monotonous combat music, etc.
>>749580173General complaints are the Werehog being a button masher and the battle music constantly interrupting the superior stage music, medal grind(which is unironically, get good).The music complaint is fixed in the recomp by allowing it to be disabled.The Werehog complaint goes one of two ways. Yes you can button mash but it'd be like button mashing in DMC or Ninja Gaiden. It's not fun unless you willing learn the combos and when you do it's actually got a decent amount of fun behind it. Alternatively there's a mod that improves combat inputs including one to be closer to DMC. Vanilla Unleashed was also pretty rough in terms of performance(Jungle Joyride was criminal for this) but that too is fixed in the recomp.
>>749580173Just anons thinking their opinion = fact
Unleashed feels like the last time Sonic Team actually tried
Unleashed is better played as a level pack mod in generations than it is on its own
>>749580173As somebody who loved both Unleashed games, the only valid criticism is every night stage sharing the same out of place annoying battle music, to the point it's a joke. Maybe the Medal bullshit in the PS2 / Wii version, but it's been a hot minutes since then.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYtFcD-7CTkThere's a mod in the works that's adding adaptive music (keeping the original exclusively for the fight-only stages, where it does fit) and it instantly turns the game into a 10/10 flawless game, with a clear vision. Unleashed 360's Eggmanland is the single best standalone stage in videogaming ever, and I'll die on that hill.>inb4 hating Werehog as a conceptCompare it to the dogshit combat that Frontiers gets glazed for having (pretty sure there's a side-by-side comparison). Hell, compare it to half the beat-em-ups of the era, Sonic team put games like Rygar or the original God [Press O] War games to shame. It's a genuinely good 3D Beat'em.
>>749580732That would be Gens instead and yes, it felt that way cause afterwards a round of Sega lay-offs happened and most of the people that made Unleashed/Gens went onto other companies.
WOOOOFEELIN' GOOD
>>749580732Nah, they got their mojo back with Shadow Generations.
>>749581318Shadow Gens was a step up from previous games because it was the first game since Lost World to not be directed by Kishimoto, instead being directed by one of the designers from the original Sonic Gens.Unfortunately, Kishimoto will be back in the director's chair for Frontiers 2.
>>749581540>that picdamn,is there even a worse resume in gaming?
>>749581161>most of the people that made Unleashed/Gens went onto other companiesThat didn't really happen. A lot of them moved to work on the Mario & Sonic games instead.Which makes sense. If you're a Sonic Team dev and there's an opportunity available to have "Mario" in your resume, you're gonna take it.
>>749581540>unfortunate circumstances and kinda shit>genuinely fun>genuinely fun if dumbed down from Unleashed>shit>shit>shit>okayShould've never been a director but he's good as a game designer. Likely got to keep the director role because Colors was overhyped.
>>749581818Secret Rings was good for what it was, and he doesn't have the full stain of Sonic 4 on his shirt. If you want somebody worse, picrel is an easy one off of the top of my head; and that's not even thinking of the ESG Western resumes who were brought in to kill studios with fag shit and fail upward.Main thing is that Sonic in the 00's had volume and could afford to throw weird and innovative shit at the wall, because it was content. Then it just petered out, and those same attempts are much more impactful to the franchise, because there isn't 3 games a year or whatever.
>>749574852>never see games like this again? Modern Sonic IS the Sonic from Generations. Unleashed was that awkward bridge and Colors solidified it.
>>749574852>We will never see games like this againThank fuck LMAO
>>749581540the common thread there is dogshit gameplay at a framing level. constantly sending you back to the title screen, cutscenes that make you think you skipped half the game on accident. unclear progress requirements burried in a sea of menus and minigames.The temple OS of platformers.
>>749582960Kishimoto comes off as someone who has either barely ever played platformers, or is unfortunately very bad at them. I think Lost World might be the best demonstration of this, where his team was clearly attempting to copy the positives of Mario Galaxy and DKC, but had practically no grasp on the nuances in the design of either, just their most shallow elements.He also clearly has no idea on what makes a character fun and satisfying to control. Forces might have the most awkward-feeling Sonic in any 3D entry next to Frontiers' cyberspace stages, and the slider options for the Frontiers' open zone areas were an outright admission that the concept of satisfying Sonic controls is beyond his capabilities.Basically, not a great pick for a project director in a platforming-centric IP.
>>749578217>>749581318>Shadow Generations>FrontiersLiterally Sonic Lost World re-skins
>>749574852those games while fun. they weren't good sonic games. SA2 and S3&K are where Sonic peaked. anything else is just cope
Part of growing up is realizing IGN was right about Unleashed.
>>749574852Boohoo faggot, I’m still waiting for Adventure 3. As far as I’m concerned Unleashed was the start of Sonic sucking as SEGA took all the wrong lessons from ‘06’s failure.
>>749585871>IGN was right about UnleashedDidn't IGN give Unleashed worse scores than 06? I don't think much of the game myself, but that's still a bit extreme. Unleashed is still perfectly functional even if 70% of it is a boring slog.
>>749586159Close. Unleashed was 4.5, 06 was 4.2.
>>749584176>He also clearly has no idea on what makes a character fun and satisfying to controlGiven the updates to Frontiers, I think he probably learned something during the process of that game's rolloutThe devs seemed to finally start listening to fan feedback, and so the spindash was added and pretty much everyone loved it and then when Final Horizon came out and had some of the characters control shitty, they got some of it cleaned up in later patchesIf he learned the right lessons, the next game he comes out could be good
>>749585871The flaw in your logic is that I actually played the game for more than 5 minutes. It was the last sonic game with any real friction and expected you to do more than just hold the boost button for an instant S-rank ala every 3d game from Gens onward with rare outliers like Frontiers 1-2 (a 50-second stage, mind you)
>>749586681I played the game up to Dragon Road and thought I'd seen enough. Never played Frontiers and never will.
>>749581540Honestly if they hage the Shadow Generations team backing him the new game could still be pretty solid
>>749586406>The devs seemed to finally start listening to fan feedback, and so the spindash was added and pretty much everyone loved it and then when Final Horizon came out and had some of the characters control shitty, they got some of it cleaned up in later patchesEh.The funny thing about the spindash is that the fans who requested it weren't the same fans singing its praises when it was finally added. It's literally just the boost from Forces with a moonjump code stapled to it because the devs couldn't get a proper spindash with actual rolling physics working right. It's even called the "spinboost" in the game's code. Dream Team has a better working spindash than anything Sonic Team has done since SA2.Also I don't think the issues with the other character's deceleration values were ever fixed. Just another example of Kishimoto's sense of design and analysis being surface-level at best.
>>749574852Sonic peaked before 2010 everything after sucks you guys need to accept that we are never getting cool shonen sonic againIve come to terms with this and all i care about now from the series is jerking off to the girls including gender bent bimbo sonic and shadow
>>749574852how the fuck did they get near perfect, smooth as fuck pinball physics in 1991 but the best they could manage 20 years later felt like playing mario with a cement shoes powerup?
>>749585431Shadow Generations is one of the finest examples of the boost gameplay style.The only thing I can knock it for is not having drifting, but Shadow's unique abilities help make up for that.
>>749580461Even before the recomp, performance was a solved issue if you had one of the recent Xboxes.
>>749587387The person who wrote the logic is gone, and Japanese game devs in the 80s/90s constantly deleted project files for shipped products to avoid having to buy more hard drives.
>>749580173I'm playing through unleashed because I never got to beat eggmanland as a kid and even knowing to look out for the medals, the requirements for them are still brutal
>>749587332>we are never getting cool shonen sonic againTechnically incorrect since there's a Sonic shonen manga running as we speak.
>>749588015Honestly with how good Shadow feels to control the drift isn't even necessary, plus the stages are slower paced than base Generations
>>749587231Autism about physics replicating real life isn't really what's important in this case. No one would care about the spindash if it was just an inferior boost that slowed you down when moving up inclines. People like the Frontiers spindash because of what it enabled: a means of interacting with the game's levels in an entirely new way. Spindash is gimped dogshit in SA2 and the Heroes Rocket Accel is literally better btw
>>749588242It's one of the only legitimately difficult sonic games to finish. It is THE hardest Sonic game to 100%
This is like taking candy from a stranger, which is fine by me
Try being an Adventure enjoyer. Never ever getting that style of sonic back
>>749588015Drift isn't really necessary if your character can actually turn properly.
>>749588015Shadow Gens just shouldn't have been a boost game, there was no point in the boost when boosting is barely faster than not boosting. It feels like the first 3D game since SA1 to control as good as SA1 did with the exception of having no way to really launch yourself like the SA1 spindash let you do. If they're going commit to more elaborate 3D levels and tighter control, the boost shouldn't even be there as an artifact; it runs counter to that kind of design
The biggest problem with Shadow Gens will always be the air speed cap, it pisses me off whenever it arbitrarily slows me down.Why the fuck is there a speed limit in my Sonic game?
>>749588817I could see it being scrapped since Kishimoto already talked about that potentially for a future game. Maybe have Sonic use the Spin Dash and Shadow boost to differentiate
>>749574852>unleashedHas always sucked. Half the game is just not fun. It's a shitty beat em up with performance issues. The day time stages are fun but people forget that the game forces you to return and collected Sun medallions in order to progress, rather than just letting you progress by completing levels.>Sonic GenerationsWay too easy. Plot is retarded. Classic Sonic doesn't have the physics of actual classic sonic. Boost Sonic just fucking sucks. Shadow Generations was the best implementation of it and Sega is NEVER going to be able to obtain that again. They need to return to Adventure-era gameplay.
>>749574852The most recent Sonic game had literally this gameplay.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_Generations
>>749578217>Sonicfags will defend a mediocre/shitty game with their life if they happen to like the presentation.Unleashed's only good presentation is the intro and maybe the Egg Dragoon part. Werehog is awful. Chip needs to be thrown in a wood chipper for how annoying and infantile he is. The setting itself looks like an off-brand pixar world. The final boss is a last second ass-pull that looks ridiculous.
>>749580173The original version before the fan made PC port ran like hot ass.The medal requirements are annoying.Werehog is baby's first hack n slash and takes up the majority of the run time. On average the game is actually a hack n slash that lets occasionally play a Sonic boost stage as a little treat. People say shit like "this game would be so good if it was only boost stages" but then the game would only be like 2hrs long.This game has a lot of highs, like the story and music and the boost stages. I loved Sonic and Chip's friendship. But it also has a lot of low points that stop be from putting it at the top of a tier list.
>>749588550>Autism about physics replicating real life isn't really what's important in this case. No one would care about the spindash if it was just an inferior boost that slowed you down when moving up inclines. People like the Frontiers spindash because of what it enabled: a means of interacting with the game's levels in an entirely new way.That's nice, but the point was more about Kishimoto's answer to fan feedback being something entirely different than what was originally asked for. And the main reason it was different being a lack of programming ability on the developers' part, practically rendering the concept of feedback in itself pointless.Again, Dream Team's execution was much better in its usage alongside to the now-traditional boost: a fully charged spindash both lasts longer and moves faster than a standard boost, and reacts appropriately when moving up, down, and off of slopes, which is significantly closer to what was asked for in the first place while also justifying its inclusion next to an existing ability. Why a group of mobile game developers could manage this while the mainline veteran dev team couldn't is beyond me.
I don't get Sega's obsession with adding 2d segments to every 3d stage
>>749589419Gives an opportunity to hide level loading points, is easier/quicker to design than fully 3D layouts, and provides gameplay "variety" and nostalgic presentation that marketers like.
>>749589419It's easier.
>>749589309>People say shit like "this game would be so good if it was only boost stages" but then the game would only be like 2hrs long.I never understood why Sonic Team's answer to this was to shove in a completely different, intentionally slower playstyle instead of looking at how racing games justify their price point despite similarly limited content. Boost Sonic already plays like a racecar that can jump, just lean into that concept even further.Go ahead, give players a lean, two hour story mode to play through. You could also rearrange that same content into an arcade mode that strings all the stages together, Outrun-style (Unleashed is already styled as a "grand tour" game anyway), plus a mirror mode for said arcade mode, an individual time trial mode with online ghosts, local multiplayer, extra unlockable characters, bonus tracks/stages, etc. The template was already there, already sells, already Sega-appropriate. Instead they gave themselves even more work to do, just to give people something nobody was asking for.
>>749590397I've always felt that Boost playing like a platformer mixed with a kart racer was its greatest strength, not a weakness like so many people say it is.It deserves a game to itself, nothing to drag it down like 2D sections, gimmicks or alternate playstyles, pure 3D boost.
Sorry Fagtiers defenders, No inertia is a deal breaker. Generations is a masterpiece, unleashed was great compared to what we got in the past 10 years. You will not make me like Lost World physics, never gonna happen. I grew up on Generations, I will never compromise on these games. Forces, Frontiers and Shadow Gens are a disgrace.
>>749592794>You will not make me like Lost World physicsWho tf is saying that
>>749592794you're really gonna bring up inertia in regards to generations, of all games?brother the homing attack arc in gens looks like a fucking staple, the physics are dogshit
>>749593614The homing attack is a homing attack, it does what its supposed to, it doesnt turn into Thwomp from Mario 64 like in post Lost World Modern Sonic
>>749594156Frontiers' homing attack is what you need to do to activate a Homing Dash, which lets you maintain the momentum generated from a homing attack by interrupting it with air boost.It shits on Generations' air dash, thoroughly, and it should be in more games.
>>749596317The frontiers homing is awful, you drop like a rock.
>>749596360Frontiers homing attack and homing dash are two different things.The attack, is an attack, it stops your momentum after it hits its targets because you're going to be hitting enemies that won't necessarily die in a single hit.The dash, is a mid-air dash that can be performed by initiating a homing attack and then doing an air boost before you hit the target, which lets you keep the momentum from a homing attack without it stopping you.You can't do the homing dash in Generations, it's not in the videogame, neither is rail launching.
>>749596536>you're going to be hitting enemies that won't necessarily die in a single hit.06 did this and did it better
>>74959723506 doesn't have the homing dash either.Generally, moving in 06 feels bad, unless you're playing as Blaze, she's upsettingly fun.
There are no good 3D Sonic games. Only autists disagree.
>>749600180Sonic fans are autistic by default you dumb cunt.
I want to be bullied by Surge the Tenrec
>>749588309>Sonic shonen mangaTechnically incorrect. It's a kodomo manga.
>>749580173They had to split speed and platforming into different playstyles because they were too incompetent to manage both at the same time despite that being Sonic's main appeal. The few times they actually attempt platforming in the 3D parts of the daytime stages it's dogshit because Sonic controls like a fucking car.Also the werehog is just a shitty 3D Ristar and I don't even like the original Ristar literally nobody asked for that shit it's just there for padding and it takes up like 70% of the game.
>>749590397It's extra crazy when you consider they did exactly this with Sonic Colors, AND IT WAS A GOOD GAME. They basically made six zones' worth of assets, gave each zone two full size acts, and four small ones that usually had a wisp gimmick you could choose to ignore and just boost past, and it worked. It was the highest rated Sonic game since S3&K.
