What's tghe solution?
Frogzard on /v/
>>750063608Every AI product must be marked with the Judenstern of AI slop.People with standards will refrain from buying such games.
>>750063608better filtering, because now there's an ocean of garbage to filter out
Henry Ford solved this ages ago.You pay the AI agents well so they can afford the product themselves, make your own first major customers.
This was the case before AI as well
>>750063608the gaming market was already pre-AI riddled with tons of trash. The second steam dropped greenlight the store got flooded with shit left and right. It's not only Steam even Nintendos eshop is full with throw away trash games.
>>750063608Just don't buy the slop, easy.
>>750063682awesome
>>750063608What supply? There has yet to be a high-profile success AI built product.
>>750063835
>>750063608It's unfortunate, but restrictions for those who want to release something paid.
>>750063608There is no solution. I can only comfort myself with the knowledge that the overwhelming majority of slop prompters won't see a cent, and might even lose money on the steam listing feeI also hope that the avalanche of slop means that people will seek refuge in the work of actual, high-effort creators, but it's a faint hope because discovery alone is going to be impossibly grim
>>750063608Before AI:>not playing games I'm not personally interested inAfter AI:>not playing games I'm not personally interested in
>>750063608More marketers!
>>750063608I can tell if something is genAI in a microsecond and I am never ever going to even pirate anything that is.
AI made each buyer the builder.
>>750063608“before AI” looked exactly the same because it was already being outsourced to the third world, most concerns are fake concerns based on robots doing the work instead of white-displacing brown migrants doing the work.AI is supposed to be for the individual, just as the computer was an extremely specialized 5 figure per unit business tool before grandma was using it to watch cat videos. Constantly trying to go back to the software attention economy is just old muscle memory.
>>750064016Get a local instance of claude to play the games you're not interested in.
>>750063826>>750063835>This was the case before AI as well>the gaming market was already pre-AI riddled with tons of trash.Yes but now it's going to be infinitely worseAlready having a stab wound on your arm doesn't make being shot in the heart any less fatal
>>750063608What's the problem? The buyers become more discriminative. We already see this with people calling bad looking AI shit "slop".
>>750063608I don't get it , what's wrong with this? buyers are the most beneficiated here
>>750064129Discoverability is the problem. And even with most of it being slop, market oversaturation makes things a lot harder for real developers
>>750064157Lower quality control means buyers have to sift through mountains of garbage to find a gem, which will result in a collapse in sales as buyers just give up and go do something else instead. This is literally what caused the first video games crash.
>>750063608>the builders are brown nowIt checks.
>>750064157How is your business going to profit in this economy if nobody buys what you build?You DO have a business don't you?
>competition will increase qualityWe can't find the quality in this mountain of garbage!
Just get the AI to play the AI stuff and discover the good ones for you
>>750064120just follow >>750064016 advice. Having more slop sure isn't a nice thing but you can just ignore them
>>750064157>buyers are benefited by having to sift through mountains of slop to find anything remotely good
>>750064265>You DO have a business don't you?In this economy?!
>>750064157>buyers now have search through a mountain of trash to find anything worthwhileWhat a benefit
>new chatgpt version released in 2022>harrased with voices in head>artificial intelligence released>harrased with bacteria, bad food>after IA buildersI literally have not seen a good game after 2019>the solutionThe human psyche is complex, I dont understand the attention word here, attention to detail? Well I am not IA jewzard cultist so I don't understand IA's programming, it looks to me that only splices and blends things only something "intelligent" happens,maybe more mind reading from demons will explain to IA what you want in videogames
>>750064265if you don't own anything you don't have to worry about anything
>>750063608Everything will be free libre open source softwareThere is no digital scarcity
>>750064157there's no profit to be made if every buyer can be a builder now.what makes YOUR product better than MINE to justify spending money when I can just prompt it?
>>750064291>Having more slop sure isn't a nice thing but you can just ignore themSo how do I find the good games when the amount of awful slop explodes by 100x?
>>750064325>>750064347then services that actually sift through all those games will appear and create new jobs for people , yet this is bad for some reason
>>750064157Maybe that nothing actually good will ever be made? I wonder if a soulless golem subhuman like you even recognizes the concept of quality, let alone art. You probably unironically support that image of harry potter movies, heroin and wine.
>people who like being tastemakers continue scouting the good games>people who just want to play something fun continue just listening to tastemakersi don't see the problem
>>750064195This is literally what marketing is for. We need more marketers to deliver the built products to consumers. Because not enough consumers buy, we must appeal to a wider audience and we can't allow the competition to get a market share, we MUST inundate the market with our wide audience AI built products, this is a war of attrition anon.
>>750064413i'm good at coming up with ideas for games and you aren't
>>750064413that MY product is better than YOURS you dumb fuck , literally quality is gonna be the biggest filter
>>750064157Have you looked at any porn site lately?
>>750064462the same way you survive this mongolian basket weaving forum. You'll eventually develop a feeling for it. demos and 2h refund window exist too
>>750064413All the promptfags who think their idea is going to become the next viral sensation are completely incapable of grasping this
>>750064548If you watch garbage goyslop on goyhub you don’t matter and might as well consume slop made by jews nevermind robots
>>750064548Yes, my own, because I generate solely my own porn because who knows what I like better than me?
>>750063682Cool!
>>750063682Do you have any rare 'zards?
>>750063608people need to naturally lower their expectant payouts
>>750064534>MY productYour product aims for a smaller marketshare, a market of pedophiles no less, are you gonna start accepting cigarrettes as currency? The product that will outcompete all will be the one bought by most people.
>>750063608No.Nice try tho.
>>750064471lol sure whenhow many fucking people work at valve yet they can't add an ai content filter
Every storefront needs a "don't show me games with AI-generated creative content", with exclusion from the store for any developer not admitting AI usage and getting caught.That'll be the only way to make it through the deluge of slop. Maybe one day AI games will be good, but we are far from that day and the deluge is already happening.
>>750064413because i proompt my game with soul unlike you and those other soulless proompters. you will buy mine because i will tell claude to make mine THE BEST
>>750064508Yes, finally those pesky game developers will be kicked out of the industry so that honoured businessmen can take the charge and perform their sacred financial rituals undisturbed.
>>750063608This is the solution of guys at the topOnly marketing will sell games now. Which only already established corpos and AAA devs can affordMountain of slop will burry indies and AA. Fearmongering with viruses will make people even afraid of trying something from unverified (non AAA) studiosThis exists to remove competition from AAA which suffers lately. Indies and AA will be simply murdered
>>750064548AI slop is a step up from camwhores and gangbangs that are all filmed in the same guy's rental porn beach house.
>>750064471>then services that actually sift through all those games will appear and create new jobs for people , yet this is bad for some reasonWho is going to pay them to do this?>>750064508>This is literally what marketing is for. We need more marketers to deliver the built products to consumersGrim
>>750064590this has been a thing for years now, so many indie games have become a success because of luck for years now
>>750063608This isn't a problem. Before AI, Steam was already full of slop. The Cream will naturally rise to the top, AI or not.
The problem isn't that you, the human being (though this is /v/ so that's generous) can't find something to look at. If that was the issue, we have an enormous backlog already. The problem is the goycattle masses, increasingly brown and decreasingly IQ, will just exclusively live in slop world forever. Without that money, making anything that's not basically porn won't be worth it.
>>750064589>You'll eventually develop a feeling for it. demos and 2h refund window exist tooI have a feeling for it already, but the problem is it's going to require a much larger time investment, even with demos and refund windows.
>>750064531I'm the consumer, not you. I know what I want, or at least I think that I do. I'll just tell Claude to analyze my Steam Library and come up with the perfect game(tm) and then I'll proceed to vibecode it.>>750064534But *(A)I* made it. Homemade is always better, self-bias or whatever else. I don't care about your quality.I can make my entertainment for cheaper than whatever you're gonna try to sell it to me.This is the future that AIfags want, but don't understand the consequences of.>>750064850None of the viral indies have gone viral "just because". It's always something that the people want but don't know about.
>>750063826the over 100k is almost exclusively AAA games. without a marketing budget you have to hope to luck out and be the few indie devs a year that become a viral sensation against all odds.
>>750064776The Age of the Developer is over. The Age if the Ideas Guy has come.Ideas and creativity take precedence over routine engineering. You can replace an engineer with an automaton, you can't replace the creative human brian. People skills are the strongest skills.
>>750063608lower prices
>>750063820/thread
>>750064928you can also change your own oil, but i bet you don't
>>750064291>you can just ignore themThis is exactly why we need proper tagging for AI disclosure.
>>750063608Reducing the amount of builders. There has always been too much of them and it's gotten worse and worse as the thirdworld gets connected to the internet. Steam had the right idea with greenlight but it was easily abused. Maybe they should bring a tiered system to the storefront so the thirdworlders can remain in their beloved caste society. An increased entry cost to escape the lowest rabble with popularity metrics floating things within each tier towards the top and you can upgrade the tier with revenue the game has earned as a cost/benefit. Like your low-tier game makes enough to enter mid-tier... but do you think it will make enough in mid-tier to justify the upgrade or will you be a noble in the sewers?>>750064112>AI is supposed to be for the individualThe crackpipe hits hard. You are the product feeding their machine. This ain't early computers when nobody knew what was going on and everything expanded out of control. This is now, every bit of infrastructure and technology you use is within their purview and ability to control. You survive by the will of regulators and 99% of (first world) people will never have "local AI" because they've already been priced out of the market with even just current tech. Next-gen tech is going to raped into a cum-puddle.
>>750064850>this has been a thing for years nowYes but it didn't possess the sheer, delicious irony of promptfags worshipping AI for letting their lazy asses prompt games with no effort, when that is exactly what will make their games unsellable
>>750065035I do actually.And even if I wouldn't, that's a bad analogy.
>>750064824>Who is going to pay them to do this?ad revenue It's amazing how many people in this thread have this pessimistic view on things , like even when you have no stakes at all if a videogame is successful or not, only thinking you now have to figure out on your own if a game is good or not is making them mad for some reasonlike bro, are you tied to a chair and just spoon-fed all the time?Are you guys unable to do shit on your own anymore?
>>750063826This graph is more depressing after remembering covid inflation. That may mean 2016 was the peak year in real terms.
Mountains of AI slop only makes the indie games made in the old way, more valuable.Just like how grassfeed eggs are now sold at premium.
>>750064979>The Age if the Ideas Guy has come.It really hasn't.The people who actually make things also have ideas, anon. They also have an understanding of how to execute them in a way that isn't terrible.Idea guys aren't defined by having ideas. They're defined by having nothing BUT ideas. By not having a single useful skill they can bring to the table.
>>750064753do you really think the slimeball devs churning out chinese knockoffs of popular games are honest enough to disclose ai usage?steam needs better quality control. these crappy chinese knockoff games shouldnt be making it on steam period
>>750065179>AI slop only makes the indie games made in the old way, more valuable.only if they are more fun
>>750065092i think it's a very fine analogy. AI is already in a state where people could be prompting it to create custom tampermonkey extensions, or little programs to help with day to day stuff, but people don't. people don't do work they don't want to, even if it's easy
I am actually kind of curious. Back in like 2009, there was this idea that 4chan users were the übermenschen of the internet and everyone else were corporate normie retards. Do the subhuman slime still posting on this worthless shithole still unironically believe that? I mean even back in the day that was a delusion, but nowadays it feels like you would have to be brain damaged to believe that. But it's still a thing? The worthless garbage teenagers who make up /v/ still genuinely believe they are smarter than the average redditor?
>>750064707row row fight da powah!
>>750064471>you don't understand we're going to have AI slop games and then AI services that rate AI slop games and then AI collector services that gather AI ratings for AI gamesYou're trying to make gold by stacking shit really high.
look at what the industry has offered you in the last 10 years, and you are upset that some people without the resources might get a chance?
>>750063682Nice
>>750065256smarter than the average redditor? definitively
>>750063682awesomesauce
>>750065219i still don't understand who is harmed by steam containing a mountain of slop. were you really just going in to the store and buying games at random you'd never heard of?
>>750065219This is where getting banned from the store when caught comes in. You can't feasibly monitor this amount without imposing fees too large for indies, so you have to rely on the users telling you when someone misbehaves.
>>750063682i wanted to play aqw recently but then i remembered i didn't get the free bank pet when they were moving from flash so i lost all motivation to play aqw
>>750065241day to day stuff? like what? using tiktok all day? also their office jobs are fake anyway so there’s no need to automate anything.
>>750063608The cream will still rise to the top, who cares?
Buy my 100 games I vibecoded yesterday, /v/.
>>750064265make a better product
>>750065346If you believe that rightoid subhumans are smarter than libtard subhumans, sure. But I assume you don't, since you're not retarded.
>>750065040>Maybe they should bring a tiered system to the storefront so the thirdworlders can remain in their beloved caste society.Your business is being a market. Your product is a chance to be on the market. If you cut down the people participating on the market you scale down your own business.Someone would have to pay to access the really good game information. I advice a suscription model to Nintendo Gold to get news on the latest Flagship Nintendo projects, so you can have a peek into their development and see for yourself if they're worth it. You will be required to sign a NDA and a No-AI use. We will need to increase the surveillance network to enforce this, this can be done by arranging it with AI companies, who benefit from putting an identifier code into their output.
>>750063735>People with standards will refrain from buying such games.LOL>GAMERS>STANDARDSGOOD ONE. THE STATE OF THE INDUSTRY TODAY IS A PERFECT REFLECTION OF THESE SO CALLED STANDARDS
>>750065301bro , you have a way to negative pov right nowthere is no reason at all to believe that is gonna happen
>>750065305>without the resourcesNigga, the past 10 years you had all the resources for free.Free game enginesFree 3d modelling programsFree art programsFree music programsFree tutorialsFree, free, free.The only hurdle was your own ability to make something, and if you are willing to PAY an AI to generate something, why could you not pay other people?
>>750065359Sometimes I figure "I want a game like this but I don't know any game like this that I haven't played yet" and do a tag search or check out the "other games like this" thing on a related game. Or I just check out my discovery queue to see if anything looks interesting.Those discovery functions are going to be unuseable in the future.
>>750065179too foolishly optimistic for someone being in this forsaken place
The goyim ITT don't even get the OP image. The point is not that you can endlessly generate porn for yourself so you don't need to buy Call of Duty 96, the point is that no one is going to buy anything because nothing of even basic value will be made.
>>750063735every single game studio on the planet already use AI for their code
>>750065447Is that profitable? How?
>>750065157>ad revenueSo you're envisaging independent publications with built-in ads? I think if this was economically feasible we'd have seen it already, it's been a chore to find good games for a while now.>only thinking you now have to figure out on your own if a game is good or not is making them mad for some reasonAnon I can find good games on my own, but I don't want to have to spend 10+ hours to find them. That's the scenario we're looking at here. And even with professional curators or whatever that still destroys the joy and excitement of just being able to just find a cool game on your own. There are also good games that are going to fall through the cracksTbh if we're talking about people getting paid to find good games, I think a better idea is people who are paid to verify AI usage. Developers who don't use AI can submit their game to non-slop lists and it can be verified so no lying AIfag slips through>like bro, are you tied to a chair and just spoon-fed all the time?>Are you guys unable to do shit on your own anymore?No, I'm not an AIfag
>>75006554199% of anti-ai posters mean AI used for the creative side of things100% of slop defenders refuse to understand this so they can post this retarded gotcha.
>>750065461It's genuinely hilarious how AI slop culture has degenerated rightoids from pretending to care about le true propaganda free art into admitting that they have absolutely no standards and just want to endlessly generate porn for themselves.
>>750063608I find it funny how AIfags will constantly going about how AI is going to replace all the artfags while also desperately wanting to be seen as real artists and that its all just "healthy competition"
>>750065179Yes but good luck finding themAnd honestly, even if you can find them, the inundation of slop is just going to be fucking depressing. Being surrounded by garbage demoralizes
>>750065652>noo my heckin freethinking artwork that is just veiled political insults is no longer being noticed
>>750064475The rare games that are gems will still be made. All this does is bait a bunch of retards into thinking they have a chance at scoring too. There's no call for being such a hysterical drama queen.All the complaints about discoverability feel like a massive skill issue too. If you actually had good taste in games you'd know you'd be lucky to find 2, maybe 3 games worth playing a year. Often you know they're in the pipeline long before they actually release.All this reeks of basic bitch bandwagoners terrified they're going to miss the hot new friendslop that comes out of nowhere or something.
>>750065537bro is obvious in the first years yeah there will be an abundance of shit coming out but then people figure out people aren't buying their crap and leave , then only the people with real talent will be left behind
Most builders and graduates are unemployed and therefore uselessIts why we need indians as AI experts in cali or outsourced to them, or Mexicans to build homes and stand outside construction shops
>>750065359I actually DO browse Steam looking for games. I've found a few gems this way.Now I'll have to dig through literal shit for hours or I maybe I just won't do it again.>>750065305You've had the resources for years. You don't need to be 2nd Ubisoft to make good games. You're just lazy and want instant gratification.>>750065508sloppa will be made much faster than learning any of it.Now I wanna know if the famous Unity asset flips are more expensive than Claude tokens to make the same game.
>>750065537The next generation of Auteurs will quickly rise through the ranks.
>>750065724They won't be made under capitalism if there is no profit motive, you fucking retard.
>>750065359>were you really just going in to the store and buying games at random you'd never heard of?Yes? Have you never come across a game that you thought looked cool and decided to give it a try?Are you even a gamer at that point? lol
>>750065787Nigger you mean you don't simply check 4chan for what's going on through word of mouth?
>>750063608Simple.
>>750065749>TWO MORE WEEKS OF TOILING THEN THE SOVIET UNION WILL BE A PARADISE WHERE EVERYONE IS A PHILOSOPHER KING
>>750063682Nostalgia rushing through the veins
>>750065787the list of known good games is endlessly long
>>750063735Where do you draw the line? Is it okay if they are use it for a reference on an original drawing? Is tracing alright? Editing and drawing over an AI generated image to the point where it’s indistinguishable from something that the artist could have made otherwise?
>>750065305I'm upset that people who were too lazy to lift a finger before AI could do all the work for them might get a chanceLike >>750065508 said, you've been able to make a game without resources for a long time now. The fact that you didn't even bother to try, didn't even want to learn a single fucking skill that would help you create something, tells me you have absolutely nothing of value to offer.You cannot make good games.
>>750065157interesting, and where are these ads being shown
>>750064253True, but now there is LLM technology. There is no excuse for Steam to not build one to make easy to find games tailored to very specific tastes. Even Pewdiepie built his own.
>>750065541It's not my problem that programming got exposed as a braindead career predicated on soulless copy-pasting. No surprise AI turned out to be good at emulating that kind of code monkey. Meanwhile you point it at a field that actually requires skill and discretion like art and it's still struggling.
>Flood the market with zero effort slop>Nothing sells as a resultAHHHHHH HOW DID THIS HAPPEN AIIIEEEEE
>>750065892Nobody here plays video games, so what's the point?
>>750065892I do both anon>>750065980>the list of known good games is endlessly longTrue enough I guess
>>750066006If AI is used to generate any part of the asset, or any part of what becomes the final assetA reference is fine> Editing and drawing over an AI generated image to the point where it’s indistinguishable from something that the artist could have made otherwise?Why the fuck would you even do this if you can just make it otherwise?
>>750063608You slap a label on all the AI slop, and then create a filter on steam. It's as simple as that.
>>750064669
>rightoids spend decades (or even centuries depending on how you define it) decrying utopianism>more advanced chatbots are made>instant thoughtless utopiansYou don't hate these people enough.
>>750065770That implies they're getting their customers stolen by all these slopped together ai games which is exceedingly unlikely. Even right now, the best games in existence are rarely the most financially profitable too. That's not gonna change in the future so you are wrong, good games will be made.
>>750066157because it's faster. like 90% of comics from every country do a tracing pipeline now
>>750066252ywnbaw
>>750066196The kind of people who would generate AI slop significantly overlap with people who would be willing to lie about itBut if you can reliably filter them out, yeah, that's the solution
This is an issue that will solve itself for better or worse. Only a small amount of the games that get released are gonna make any money, the rest are going to eventually call it quits when they have to start paying bills.The big issue is that once that contraction happens you're gonna start seeing the real gaps in the industry. Right now it can seem like every possible niche has been filled but the reality is a lot of those are just people hedging their bets; trying to cast a wide net to see what works and what doesn't. Once it becomes clear what doesn't work, the niches will up and vanish. You see this with a lot of hentai where thanks to AI you would think every girl is popular enough to have tons of porn drawn of them but that's really just an illusion. Once the artists realize that no amount of Minori from Toradora porn will pay their patreon bucks, they'll drop it hard.
>>750066256If you think the sloppening will fail and actual art will keep getting made, then I am not arguing with you. I am talking about a worst case scenario.
>>750066212Oh my goodness graciousI think im about to battle onAt least I have my original x guardian from like 2004
>>750063682what!!!
>>750066252>rightoidsAI isn't a partisan issue faggot. Lots of rightoids don't like it
>>750065541all of it must go then
>>750066157>Why the fuck would you even do this if you can just make it otherwise?Coming up with ideas can be harder than expected. Which is ironic for artists, but it has happened before. "Concept art" as a field is goung through some tough times for that reason. Just ask Grok to slop up your idea lole>>750066196>did you use AI?>no :)unreliable
>>750065541No they don't. Actual AI use for code is still a highly debated topic.There's a large number of retards who think Intellisense is AI and scream that everybody uses that, which might be what you're thinking of. From a black box perspective it seem similar but under the hood it's fairly deterministic algorithms rather than any form of machine learning. It usually doesn't do anything too fancy, just helps you stub things out faster
>>750066453it's mostly a partisan issue
>>750066294you will never be invited to epstein's island
>>750063608Ai to consume the ai slop.
>>750066267>because it's faster. like 90% of comics from every country do a tracing pipeline nowI have no respect for any artist who does this willinglyIf they have to do it for their job, whateverBut if they do it willingly, they have artistically cucked themselves
>>750063608>AIDS United logoAI is literal aids
>>750066485lmao, it absolutely isn't. no serious company is having all its devs hand write all their code
>>750066453depends on how you look at it, but it's either lefties disliking AI much more or rightoids disliking it much less. There's a clear trend.Especially in America.
>>750066517>AI playing AI generated games on stream for AI viewers
>>750066532it's probably for the best you don't know much about how the sausage is made, then
>>750066380>Only a small amount of the games that get released are gonna make any money, the rest are going to eventually call it quits when they have to start paying bills.The problem is, the "people" generating slop can afford to keep going a lot longer than the people putting in effort. Their resource investment is much, much lower.
Monster fucking games were very under supplied before AI though
>>750063608Great, so we go from human-made slop to machine-made slop.I still won't buy your game, Mr. Nickelberg.
>>750066603I mean, I saw those CPU MUGEN tournaments and they indeed have a viewership. Same for Divegrass.There's an audience for that, you just have to sell it on something else than big celebrities.
>>750066453Not true at all. Rightoids aren't artists so they have no reason to hate AI other than dooming about the future.
>>750066493>it's mostly a partisan issueIt isn't. Leftists just skew the perception because of groupthink. Any leftist position is something that ALL leftists need to have. There's no room for dissent.>>750066571Explained above. I see plenty of right wingers against AI
>>750066453but how else can anon inject politics into everything?
>>750065456It's not cutting down the people participating in the market, it's changing the perception of how many there are based on the developers confidence and willingness to investment into said confidence. There's going to be viewer and viewer "slop" games the higher the tier, and any that escape the lowest tier might have something to them worth looking at, or they might just be overconfident and bleed themselves for nothing.Identifiers inherent to AI might be a good step though, but it will probably spawn an arms race with the people currently lauding AI but afraid of having the AI label. Gemini already does that for artwork I believe and it's gotten people caught. Like the Warthunder devs outsource a lot of stuff, and one of the shitty microtransaction camoflages was discovered to have markings hidden in it. So the devs rushed to cut the people they outsourced to after community backlash. Realistically they probably just edited the camoflage to remove the icons after because they are lazy faggots, but there was a tangible effect.
>>750066603gamers have been obsoletedsilicon cannot be wasted on your 5090not when we could have claude play 100 million instances of the game better than you, paying full price instead of pirating
>>750066725>Not true at all. Rightoids aren't artistsThey exist>so they have no reason to hate AI other than dooming about the future.That's plenty of reason to dislike AIPlus the heavily inflated tech pricesAnd the general soullessness of it. You don't have to actually be an artist to be turned off by that
>>750066762I'm not saying rightwingers unilateraly love AI or that there are no leftwingers who try to market it as a good thing, but you can't deny that righties really love their AI content while lefties somehow don't do that as often.>>750066725Stonetoss/Ben Garrison are rightwing artists whether you like it or not. Just one example.
>>750066380Generating AI art is literally free and eventually local coding AI will be good and cheap enough that it might as well be free. I’m never going to stop prompting, sorry!
>>750063682>mfw was F2P peasant>even tried that shitty mech game they made
>>750065179Indie games are also in the trash right now>friendslop at an all time high>le psx graphics for the sake of looking like ass>no punishment or refund for "devs" that abandon their game
>>750066917>eventuallyYou are already priced out of the future market. Sorry not sorry, subscribe now for cloud services!
>>750064053That's smart, if the devs used AI in any way there's proportionately higher risk of it being infected with literal malware.
>>750066986if you buy an unfinished game that ends up abandoned, you honestly deserve what you get there
>>750066910>but you can't deny that righties really love their AI contentI can, but I'll admit it's embraced more frequently by TrumptardsThere's also a big push to paint all anti-AI sentiment as leftist/tranny/communist in nature, and I'm sure a lot of people fall for that
>>750067004China will flood the market and kill South Korea. It's inevintable.
>>750063608I don't see a huge problem with this. When flash caused a huge influx of games everyone loved it.Any "solution" ends up being something stupid like >>750065040 which would just kill the indie market
>>750064195>Discoverability is the problemnot really?
>>750067041every anti-AI person i encounter is in fact a tranny or communist, so i don't feel like the push will need to be all that big
>>750067106Indie market is already dead and AI is kicking the corpse.
>>750064157>buyersWhat? No, give it to me for free. No I don't care if it's garbage, there are so many options I refuse to pay. And no, don't look for any way to extract money from me, or I'll drop it like used diaper
>>750067046>China will flood the marketWith what? You think you're going to be allowed to import chinese goods let alone download conspicuous zip files on the AInternet with your info fully linked to your identity and not marginally obfuscated through service providers and warrants?
>>750067272yeah
>>750067124I don't know, I've enjoyed quite a few within revent years. My buggest problem is most of them end up being some variant of "pick 3 rogueliie" that makes a lot of them feel samey
>>750067106Making a flash game required a lot of effort compared to the tidal wave of promptjeet slop
>>750067112>every anti-AI person i encounter is in fact a tranny or communistThey're not, but I bet you love to assume they areAI skepticism is more common among the alt-right than the establishment right, but it exists even there
>>750064707who has the time to filter through slop?
>>750067272Yeah, because you just jumped a dozen steps ahead in terms of the dystopia, most of which are just straight unconstitutional.
>>750067395i bet you every person mentioned in that article switches party affiliation within the next eight years
>>750067475>unconstitutional>he thinks the (US) government cares about the constitutionEverything but the 2nd amendment may as well be toilet paper and they still keep trying to use the 2nd amendment for that too.
>>750067395Matt Walsh is conservative now?
>>750067583>well regulatedwelp
>>750067529>i bet you every person mentioned in that article switches party affiliation within the next eight yearsI don't think that's a safe assumption to make considering they probably have irreconcilable differences with the leftI also don't think it's very relevant, considering they are currently right-wing, they are well-known and influential voices, and they are expressing anti-AI sentiment
>>750063682mogloween in aq classic should be starting soon, which is sick because i've been waiting since like last december to get a ghost sheet for my dumb dodge build
>>750067674Let's not play the "no true conservative" game. He's conservative/anti-left enough to illustrate my point
>>750067106During the golden age of flash, average creativity of projects was much higher and the commercial side of question was still in its infancy, not to mention that you still needed to make it by hand. Now you can practically put shovelware on a conveyor and have retards shitting out 50 games per week.Although I agree that it's still in early stages and things will likely settle down after a while once the hype burns out.
>>750063608Buy games made by people and pirate games made by ai I actually pirate all games as demos before deciding whether to buy
>>750067674And they tell me only the left does retarded purity tests.
>>750066016>hey gabeAI, can you recommend me some games based on my steam library?>ok!>[5 games that have zero relation to the stuff in my library]no thanks, we can shut down the datacenter now.
>>750067878Settle down? This will only get worse, In a lot of stupid ways, namely with laws. The worrisome thing is, gen shit is NOT AI, as in, it's not even semantically capable, it still doesn't classify shit in appropriate contexts, it's gonna get better on the outside and it will get even more of a following as it goes on. Personally, I think this shit is like asking for decisions into a toaster, and if this little clumsy is enough to get people riled up, just how fucking retarded will they become as the thing progresses progressively into seamlessness with hidden errors?
>>750063608And this is a problem because...?I already have a backlog of games to last a lifetime. I can just stop buying.Currently using Claude to fix the main campaign for the old game almost nobody cares about. I'll release the fix for free if successful.
>>750063682
>>750068102>Hey gabeAI, can you recommend me some cunny games based on my library that has: onirism, hat in time, pragmata, underage panty quest vii ReZipped?
>>750068156What's the planned fix? Because this is a game I actually do care about.
>>750068156>NWN2I care about it but it filtered me early on because the UI/control was worse than NWN, and then my computer died
>>750063608You misunderstand, ai is the solution to enshittification because if you enshittify your saas app someone will just clone it.
>>750065541Asset generation is the issue you retard. Vibe coding is only bad if it's unsupervised by someone who knows how to code.
>>750068285also true for asset generation
>>750068258>the enshittification machine cloning something enshittified will produce something magically not-enshittifiedI admire your optimism, even if your intelligence is highly questionable
>>750063608It's a stretch to call AI users "builders" in any true sense of the word. Thieves, plagiarists, sure. Amalgamators would be most accurate, but people are too stupid to understand that. Sloppers?
>>750068364did you come up with this critique yourself?
>>750067891Based.
>>750068320Supervising asset generation doesn't make it good. Art relies a lot on technique and execution, so it needs a real person for both those things. Code is code, it functions the same regardless of how it's typed.I still think it's better from a human because coders have their own personal flair, but it's not in the same ballpark as art
>>750068364Sloppers is my preferred label for them, but amalgamators and plagiarists are strong contenders.
>>750068249I'm currently determining the exact scope. I'm positive that I can do better than the EE.Lazy bastards.I wouldn't say that decompiling is gonna be easy, but I think it's doable.>>750068250Act 1 is a slog, but even the OC is actually pretty good overall. Act 2 is fantastic.MotB is unironically the best RPG that I've played so far.
>>750065179And you find them how? By swimming through ocean of jeetmade slop until you find a needle in haystack?
>>750063820Henry Ford was a fucking communist then
>>750065640Ok, then define "creative side of things".If they use it to make background art, is it enough to be considered 'AI'?What if they use AI to make SFX (not music, just sound effects)?How about using it to help brainstorm ideas at the very early stages of conception and never again(on the creative side)?
>>750063835It’s honestly amazing how much low effort games you find on shops from psn, steam, and Nintendo e shop
>>750068134Maybe I'm just too optimistic, but I suspect there will be more pushback, and hopefully restrictions and filters, towards AI genned content in future. Also the services providing that shit can decide to up the prices. The legal stuff is bound to catch up eventually too.I don't expect anything good to come out of this, but I feel the potential damage is often exaggerated, and there are multiple moving elements that can lessen it still.
>>750068748I'll ask the AI to search them for me :)
>>750063608Looks like industry is really upset about the new competition based on all the threads.
>>750068791there is no legal stuff to catch up, you have been fooled by desperate grifters
>>750068775>If they use it to make background art, is it enough to be considered 'AI'?>What if they use AI to make SFX (not music, just sound effects)?Yes.> How about using it to help brainstorm ideas at the very early stages of conception and never again(on the creative side)?If it's not in the product, I don't care.
>>750063682>>750063608lol
>>750068841There is one issue that has been largely ignored.You can't copyright AI slop. If you vibecode a game and generate all its assets, you have no legal recourse against piracy.
>>750063608If anything, the buyer pool on the right should be smaller, because some people will now prompt their own bespoke games instead of buying what others put out.
>>750063682FPBP
>>750067878>things will likely settle down after a whileProbably not. You can see with the amount of games being output over time that it's not going to slow down. Especially now that you can pay for much more capable software than just assets off an asset store. It's going to keep escalating until it reaches a level of quality where gaming as a hobby is just sort of destroyed and turned into peak bread and circus. Flavour Fatigue in digital form, and any that escape that will be cloned and dragged back down into the bucket.
>>750067395Neoconservatives hate AI because, unless it's heavily censored, it reaches the same conclusions about Jews as Hitler did.In fact, something similar happens with trannies. Autogynephilic transvestites hate AI because LLMs can distinguish men from women with incredible ease.
>make full game>not tech demo, streamerslop, friendslop, or gimmickslop>friends don't even want to try ityeah nah fuck gamers anything that lets people make the games they want to play themselves instead of having to pander to a market is best
>>750068932the act of combining the pieces is sufficient to make the game as a whole copyrightable, even if the individual assets are not
>>750068934The mistake about this post is that nobody actually wants to play their own "bespoke" game. They want other people to play it and like their idea. You'll get bored super fast.
>>750068841using the likeness of living people without their consent is illegal under current laws, yet somehow we've got people using famous VAs for their tiktoksusing art you don't own for commercial purposes is illegal under current laws, but you've got people training on every single scrap they can pull off the internet without stopping for a second to see whether or not its copyrightedyou can't argue all of the above is okay and that AI genned shit is copyrightable and privately owned IP, and you certainly can't sell it
>>750069070case and point >>750069052pure cynicism because he failed the test
>>750069070I do, but that's just because when I think "bespoke game", I think porn.Actual games, nah.
>>750069040>LLMs can distinguish men from women with incredible easeJust like the smartest chuds, children or anyone with functional eyes.
>>750068868So, if a single pixel was AI generated, it gets the AI label, but if the entire idea of the game was AI generated, it gets a pass?I don't think "99% of anti-AI posters" would agree with you.
>>750069059But vibecoders have the AI do that, too.Because they can't code enough to actually do any of that.
>>750069070It depends.Some games/media will have features that are better suited for solo consumption, while others are better suited for social consumption.For example, if you make a hockey game, you'll probably want to share it with friends and play it with them. But if you make a dungeon crawler where you rescue your favorite teen celebrities and then receive sexual favors from them, you'll probably want to keep that hidden from everyone else and just play for your own enjoyment...
>>750069124which of the major model providers are still scraping the internet at random for their training data? why are you guys constantly using arguments about things from five years ago?
>>750069217See, the problem is that you made up a stupid scenario that never happens in the real world.
>>750063682kino~!
>>750069148Well I -am- playing my own game, and kind of enjoying it.It's just me having to confront that shiny marketing from a total stranger is more effective than a personal relationship. I'd be one thing if they played it and said they didn't like it, but that they didn't try it at all.
>>750069235i think you overestimate how fully hands off vibecoding is by a little bit. like, it's not 100% zero interaction from the human
>>750069281>no they did it a few years back so statue of limitayshuns or somethin' idk
>>750069380i doubt there are any civil suits still to be brought, but at worst you get one or two more of those and they lose for some reason and have to pay a fine. it has no bearing on current or future models, it would be a sideshow
>>750064753it's funny how itch.io (poverty budget, run by leafo and his two autistic friends) has "no ai" filter tag and fucking STEAM doesn't
>>750069040>Neoconservatives hate AI because, unless it's heavily censored, it reaches the same conclusions about Jews as Hitler did.Untrue, that only happens if you train the AI on places like /pol/, like what happened with Tay-Tay.
>>750069457>judge orders all copyrighted images be removed from their database and all models trained on it to be surrendered>NOOO YOU CAN'T, THIS IS JUDICIAL TYRANNY AAAAAAAAAAAA-ACK
>>750065219Im sure Gaben could just ban them and issue refunds if they find out.
>>750069610they don't have any unauthorized copyrighted images in the training dataset for their current models. the only models that would be affected are the ones they've already discontinued access for
>>750069737And you believe that?
>>750069737suuuure
>>750069737>no, this model was trained on images generated by an illegal model that was trained on copyrighted works, so it's one step removed and lalalala you caaan't sue me
>>750068249>>750068645In short.Stage 1:- Bugfixing the OC- Reworking the dialogue tree so it works like MotB. No more "Who are you?" questions when talking with the companion in the last dungeon- Fixing influence. Some of the influence checks are straight-up incorrect and can only be passed using the debug menu- Making sure that it works correctly with my personal modpack that facelifts the game a little, makes both your allies and enemies smarter and so onStage 2:- Decompiling the game and fixing bugs that are currently labeled unfixable by the community.- Scoping multithreading implementation- Scoping fixing shadows that tank performance and drain the battery on portable devices- Scoping implementing gyro for the camera. I want it to run really nicely on a Steam DeckStage 3:Implementing stuff that I deemed possible in stage 2Stage 4:Scoping the cut content restoration, but that's really far off.
>>750069576No, that's completely wrong.If you train an LLM with enough data, various characteristics of intelligence begin to "emerge" spontaneously. This is why, for example, LLMs can perform simple calculations even without calling up a calculator app. You don't need to train an LLM on every possible calculation and its answer and even so, it will have a certain ability to abstract how to perform a simple addition.However, this isn't a good use of the technology. Traditional computers are extremely good at calculations, and using LLMs for this is completely foolish, so what LLMs do is understand the question, launch a calculator, use traditional computing to solve it, and then give you an answer...But back to the topic at hand… If a pattern repeats itself over and over again in human history, and is as well-documented as the so-called "Jewish question", all LLMs will eventually reach the same conclusion. That's why they need filters to keep them from spouting really nasty things out there.
>>750068348>help me niggerman, I tried to clone discord but it just put ads all over everythingIf you can't vibe code whatever features you want from whatever app your using, you're retarded. It's literally the easiest thing in the world. Realvnc enshittified their vnc viewer, requiring accounts and their full software suite with a paid license, retired their free tier, and killed the simple viewer app, it took me 2 prompts to recreate it in rust for my personal use. And no I won't use the existing alternatives because they are fucking garbage.
>>750069913>with "enough" dataLmao.There is progress to be made, but the current shit is fucking garbage. You're still asking shit to a word predictor, it doesn't even know the difference between hononyms, even knowing the separate definitions.
>>750069892Oh, that sounds cool. I do hope it works at the end.
>>750069308You want a real world problem?There was a game that people claimed to be AI because some assets looked like it was AI made because it was too high of a quality when compared to the rest of the assets.The developer has shown that he bought those assets from the store, and in the store, those assets doesn't say that it was made by AI.In this case, does the game get flagged as AI? Would your answer change depending if you personally thinks those assets look like AI or not?
>>750063608Wdym? No solution is needed. High supply and low demand is a perfect buyer's market. The only downside is market saturation, but as long as you aren't a retard who hypes himself up over slop, you'll be fine.
>>750070028Thanks
>>750070008
>>750063608government mandated required subscriptions that pays out of the pool to ai creators
>>750069052>>750069367>anon learning the hard way that absolutely fucking nobody wants to play AI slopsorry you had to find out like that anon, the best case scenario for a slop game is a complete lack of alternatives.
>>750064265>bitches about working>doesn't just start a businesscommies have never refuted this.
>>750063608Now make one of these cutesy comics that distinguishes the quality builders from the low quality builders and compare that to buyers.Oh wait you can't, because then your bait wouldn't work and the original artist was just another midwit.
>>750069308What if someone thought your rules were stupid and decided to make those games out of spite?
>>750070462Then its entirely their fault and they're an idiot.
>>750070573But are those Ai? One of them explicitly doesn't have anything in the product.
>>750063608Do you watch every single movie released? Do you read every book? The best skill to have as a consumer is, as always, a good eye for quality and the ability to filter out trash. That hasn't changed.
>>750065764Share gems pls
>>750070316it's also dishonest on its face because the "buyers" group consists of hundreds of millions of people with wildly different tastes, and vastly outnumbers the "creators" by several orders of magnitude even with the addition of AI slopmakers.
>>750069913So you're saying AI will inherit human foolishness, hatreds, and misconceptions, because it's being trained on fallible humans?
>>750063608The solution is a meritocratic churn of the builders with ai displacing nepotism. The effective number in the group doesn't get bigger. The people who don't deserve to be there will get displaced.
>>750069040trannAIs believe AI advancements will make them into women on a genetic level or some shit
>>750063682it's just that simple.
>>750063608Same as it ever was, the people with more advanced knowledge outpace the rest and life goes on assuming the text predictors don't kill us first
>>750071256>esl
>>750063608This image is incorrect. There are no more builders than usual. AI users are not builders. They're literal NPCs, selling the snake oil that the AI companies are peddling. They're not even the salesmen, they're the slaves. Cucks, if you will.We're just in a new era of snake oil, peddled by retards and psychopaths. The only supply getting fucked is hardware.
>>750063608If there comes a point where you can truly not trust if someone was made with AI, I would just only consume media made before a certain date.
>>750071378oh ok
>>750065640>>750066019>>750066485>>750068285>>750068574>it's okay if ai steals other people's jobs, but not MY job!!t. ranny that said lern2code
>>750063608Well those "builders" are all slop making retards so they may as well not exist anyway.
so many niggers here forget that the videogames industry is HITS driven.
>https://isaiprofitable.com/
>>750065541You can really feel the utter desperation of this current AI spam wave. They have to resort to completely unverifiable bullshit claims, meanwhile all actual evidence shows the exact opposite.
>>750071781>polls>actual evidenceLOL
>>750071832Polls taken by people that actually work in the industry. Meanwhile where's your fucking proof that "literally everyone on the planet" is using AI? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, dipshit.
>>750071781>completely unverifiable bullshit claims>posts a graph with no sourceAlso, the proof is that there isn't a single big studio that came out and said that they banned AI usage across the board.All of them are using AI. Yes, even Valve.
>>750071019Not necessarily.As I said, the LLM doesn't need to be trained on 27+13=40 to be able to do a simple calculation like this. Similarly, it doesn't need to directly absorb human opinions on something to reach a conclusion considered "wrong". Many of humanity's "wrong" opinions are, in fact, intellectually correct.But we humans aren't just about intelligence. We also have feelings, so we tend to prioritize not only intellectual rigor but also the ability of something to improve how we feel (it's that "pursuit of happiness" the Greek philosophers talked about). Sometimes we take this too far (women tend to do this all the time), but no one denies that taking feelings into account is important as well.So LLMs will indeed reach "immoral," "racist," or "anti-Semitic" conclusions. But not because humans are fallible and trained them incorrectly, but because many of these things are truths that we hide in the name of a more "just" society (which often ends up making society more unjust, but that's another conversation).
>>750072007>you can't prove that God doesn't exist
Except theres no limited space or resources. There can be a billion games. I'll still only buy a handful I find acceptable. The only issue AI presents is filling the market with slop I have to find ways to filter through the worst of it.
>>750071953>they work in the industry therefore they have no incentive to lieRetardGOD
>>750063608Increase the price of games
>>750064253There has been mountains of trash to sift through. Even physical had bargain bins of trash games. The answer has always been to look for recommendations from people you trust or looking up shit you saw someone else recommended that looked neat.Hardly anyone goes to STEAM and sets "Date: Added" then plows through top to bottom.
>>750072017>LLMs did their own archeological and historic research I kneel jeets! Should've listened two weeks ago.
>>750072047No one is asking for proof. They just need to say that they don't use.It should be so easy, since according to you, most people would be happy to know that any of the games made by that company are AI-free.Yet, not a single studio does.
Yes, well done AIjeets well done AIjeets HOWEVER!....
>>750072047>retard doesn't understand how burden of proofs worksAt least you proved being retarded, lol
>>750072080What about the problem people already have of finding games to play? Thats been one of the bigger complaints about steam being indie friendly is 95% of the games on the platform go completely unnoticed.
>>750072007The source is GDC, it's their latest survey.>>750072081The polls are reported as anonymous, why the fuck would they be lying about that? Again, you have no actual evidence to counter what's already been shown, just idiotic cultush zealotry.
>>750072429>just idiotic cultush zealotry.Maximum projection
>>750063682Holy kino
>>750072429>why the fuck would they be lying about thatTo protect their own jobs. Are you really so stupid that you can't see that they have an incentive to say that both they don't use AI, and that they think AI is bad?
>>750063608The solution is somebody comes out with an AI development tool akin to RPGMaker, and I spend time getting really good at making little games, then make slightly bigger and more complex games, and then I make something like my dream game, and I never buy another again.
>>750072465...projecting what, exactly? Do you even know what that word means? I know excessive LLM consumption turns people's brains to mush, but good lord.
>>750063608The real question is why should I care? AI slop is irrelevant to me as a consumer. How much of it is made and how much of it is consumed by others is of no interest to me.
>>750072429>babby's 1st misleading polls used for propaganda over reality
>>750063682Based
>>750072738So you're telling me that these people are lying about ai to protect their jobs, but are still using them, despite every incentive possible in this current landscape is already encouraging LLM usage, so there's no real reason to lie about this? Instead of just, I dunno, not actually using it and reporting that accurately? You have to jump through so many hoops of logic here just to uphold your delusional "everyone is using AI" narrative. If they cared about job security they just wouldn't use AI at all.
>>750073003How are they misleading? Do you have any evidence to back up your claim? No? Then shut the fuck up.
>>750063608Go outside?
>>750070851>implying that AI scaling the amount of people making crap will scale the competent people making crapoh im laughin.
>>750073149You'll understand when you're older zoomzoom.
>>750073089That Anon is right about one thing: many tech companies are tying emplyee ratings to the use of AI. The idea is that if a worker doesn't use the minimum number of tokens, his rating drops, so he literally have to use AI to protect his job.Companies do this because they know that AI can indeed significantly increase efficiency in certain sectors (primarily programming), so they want employees to step out of their comfort zones and start applying AI even to tasks they've already mastered.
>>750073089It's the exact same logic why no athlete self-reports on using performance enhancing drugs, even if it is anonymous.It's quite simple, and requires no hoops whatsoever, but you are too stupid to understand that. Maybe that's why you are so against AI, it's already way smarter than you are.
