How would you fix the genre?
i just want a fun questing process through cool zones. but every game fucks it up somehow. usually they put too much story shit so it feels like most of the time you're just watching dialogue or cutscenes. other times they make the enemies way too easy so it feels like there's no gameplay at all. the enemies should at least make me feel like i need to use the rotation rather than just dying in one or two hits
>>750231539Ban cell phones and social media. restrict the internet to household PCs. This way, interacting with people on the internet would be a novel concept again, and people would engage with MMOs
>>750231852>Build your character.>Farm your favorite set.>Chase the highest crafting recipes.>Trade.Novelty is easy to do.
>>750231760What are people supposed to do when they're done leveling?
>>750231539To fix MMOs first you have to fix the humans. And you can't fix the humans
WoW cannot be fixed.
Ideally I'd find some extremely draconian way to force players to be in a CC headset from .hack or something, to really do it, you need to completely immerse players in the GAME, no discord, no phone, no outside world, full on connected. That's the only way we'll ever get the real MMO experience back, but even then, people will find ways to bring their connections outside of the game which will fuck it.So, I don't think we can. I think it's done forever, we experienced the golden age, and must lament it's loss.
WAIT A SECONDSwap the M and the O
>>750232298>>750232418Behavior and fun are game design problems.MMOs haven't had reasonable innovation in 20 years. We just need something that makes players wonder what's going on when they're logged off. ARK is a really good example of this with breeding, and protecting their base
A good MMO needs devs who don't listen to their playerbase.The players don't know what they want. They always demand everything to be as accessible and convenient as possible.
If you're actually serious to fix MMOs you need it to be unmoderated, anonymous, focused on replay-ability, uncensored chat, allow RDM, and basically make it so the super retarded autists can naturally police the normgroids using their autistic powers.Cause that's basically the issue, most MMOs give asymmetric power to normgroids who are subhuman therefore your game is subhuman slop.Basically imagine if 4chan was an MMO except bot shills could be BTFO'd with RDMs.
>>750233431This has killed nearly every game it's ever been a part of.
Make a time machine. That's literally the only way at this point.
>>750233805PvP? You can give players power when they spawn, as easily as Fortnite does. But wins are a rarity in Fortnite. People obviously don't mind losing their kits if they can get back in the action immediately.
>>750233895I disagree. There's so much innovation on the horizon, people will love you for providing it.
>>750231539Exterminate the chinks, jeets, and latinxes and send the bantu back to Africa where they don't have internet.
>>750231760>the rotationYou are the problem with MMOs, kill yourself.
>>750234153Regional servers exist. Most people don't use a VPN to play on NA servers. It works pretty well.
>>750233431>MMOs>ReplayabilityYou need to kill yourself.>WAH WAH WAH MUH MENTALLY AND SOCIALLY FUNCTIONAL PEOPLE ARE OPPRESSING MESeriously, kill youself. It'll be the best thing you can do for your parents who suffer for your existence.
>>750234274>We'll just let chinks, latinxes, shitmonkeys, and bantu give feedback on game development and balance!Nah, we need to exterminate them.
>>750234402keep malding tranny.
MMOs are just fucked. People that still want MMOs to be a thing are all nostalgic for completely different things. Some people miss the slow leveling and simplicity of vanilla WoW. Some people miss Lineage 2. Some people miss Ultima Online or Everquest. There's such an insanely wide spectrum of games and what people want from them there that it's impossible to capture it all in one, succinct product. It doesn't help that each individual thing these people may want have been adopted by other genres of games and taken online now, so what is even the point of an MMO anymore? We live in a completely different world now than when MMOs were in their prime. It's pretty much impossible to recapture that magic at scale again. The world is fundamentally incompatible with the idea.Anyways my ideal MMO would be some weird mix of vanilla WoW/early FFXIV/GW1/PSO1. The open world leveling of WoW but with a more cohesive and focused story like FFXIV (and better, one would hope. HW-ShB was good and everything else sucked ass). I like WoW and XIV's tab target/GCD combat but FFXIV is too rigid and WoW doesn't have enough build variety. This is where I'd enjoy something like GW1's robust skill and multi-profession system to really blow open the gates. PSO1 for flavor or extra instanced content I guess. None of these suggestions are thought out, I'm just rambling.
>>750233376Disagree, you download an app to scan your base (usually sold at a premium, as per rust) while you're offline, there's TOO MUCH availability offline. Too much info in wikis, too much info disseminated in youtubes, twitch, twitter, patch notes only on discord, guilds and clans that want a fucking job interview through google forms, I want people to be UNABLE to interact with those. Not to choose to play the game, to HAVE to play the game. You cannot trust people to make a choice for their own good, they are too stupid, especially in the MMO space. We have seen this time and time again, innovative and unique MMOs get whittled and worn down to the most accessible because "well wow and ff14 do this, why can't this". It killed new world. (Not like the shutdown, but the core concept of new world got obliterated and it turned into a themepark)
How did the French manage to make the best MMORPG of 2026?
>>750235041>wakfudidn't they give up on it and go back to dofus?
>>750231539Just play RuneScape. Perfect game already.
MMOs will never escape the "WoW-killer" curse. Just don't call them MMOs anymore.
>>750235156Yeah this. That other perfect MMO someone will make sooner or later if you just look and wait long enough is a pipe dream
>>750234202What's your go-to alternative?
>>750234402What's wrong with "replayability"? I'm sure he just means good gameplay loops.
>>750235571Yes we all know nigger. Would you prefer us ERP and post about gachas and ecelebs over discussing games?
>>750234457It doesn't matter who gives feedback if the devs are good.
>>750231539fix?
Just play Albion Online.
>>750234741People are genetically 99.9% the same. Literally. People train different preferences, but if they're honest with themselves, they're still turned on by risk:reward and other adrenaline correlatives. Every design either detracts from or adds to quality. So a game can and should appeal to everybody.
Until you can solve bots and multi-boxing without invading the privacy of players, the dream of a good MMO will be out of reach. LLM shit will only make this worse.
>>750234806>you download an app to scan your baseIn ARK? I haven't heard of this in ARK 1.>Too much info in wikis, too much info disseminated in youtubes, twitch, twitter, patch notes only on discord, guilds and clans that want a fucking job interview through google forms, I want people to be UNABLE to interact with those.A lot of those can be mediated by good design, random-area resources and such. But people are still going to look up and make guides where applicable. That's just the nature of min-maxing. You can't do anything about it. Why care?
>>750235994No
>>750235156>Top-down.Eh. Immersion is really important.
>>750235454Again, it's easy to innovate if you look for it.
>>750235518It's not impossible, because it's not even hard. Just quit the usual problems: leveling, linear treadmills, themeparks, etc. I'm guessing the next big MMO will have full-loot servers as the only alternative to PvE servers. It's the trend (Fortnite/BRs, ARK, Rust, Minecraft, etc.).
>>750235571>All the text is different.You shouldn't shitpost or be disingenuous. An image macro is a good way to stand out in the catalog.
>>750235906I don't want to grind levels. The only way you're going to get away with that is if you have some of the best combat in the industry, et al.
>>750236067Bots aren't going to supply millions of players in a well designed game.A skilled group will always beat a multiboxer.
>>750231539>Genocide all non-whites since rangebans apparently aren't effective enough>Public executions for cheaters, poopsockers, multiboxers, and RMTers>All MMOs have two modes of play: F2P servers which get access to roughly 10-20% of the game, and paying members-only servers. Nothing in between, and not a penny's worth of micro-transactions>Cordon pvp psychopaths to their own servers/section of map and don't give them an inch more than this no matter how much they whine; never balance content for pvp, they get what they get and if they don't like it, fuck em
>>750236160>random-area resourcesso procedurally generated? Come on, be realistic here. And yes, that's my point. I can't, and it's not fixable, the genre is dead due to innovation and progress in tech elsewhere. I'm aware I can't do anything. I fucking hate it.>in ark 1I don't think ark 1 had it, ascended had a mobile app for a short period but when people started figuring out how to share the premium apk version they just nuked it. Rust charges $10/mo for their app's main functionality (smart alarms and push notifications).People have ABSOLUTELY started using claude to develop hooks to alert players when shit happens. In fact most big clans expect it, and if you don't have it, you get dumped.I hate that things are this way.Which was my entire point, the only way to fix this is to make it completely impossible for people to interact with the game outside of the game, and to physically lock them to playing it and only it when they want to play, no tabbing out, no second monitor fagshit, just the game.But again, I am wholly aware that's unreasonable, but that's literally the only way to fix MMOs. thus, they're dead to me.
>>750231852>>750234153basically this
>>750236772good thing no MMO exists or ever existed that has millions of players, they're all separated by server/world/shard/whatever they call it now. They only have to theoretically be able to service a smaller subset of paying customers (based on WoW info and FF14 info and maplestory info [since it's topical again] and OSRS info pre-sand casino nuke, roughly in the range of 6-7% of average playerbase). You can build loyalty extremely fast since you're dealing with transactions that will get a player banned. If you don't get them banned, the trust and loyalty goes pretty much to the moon with no real cap, they'll spend more and more frequently as long as there's use for the currency.I remember Selling IK and other sets for D2 back in the day, I had well in excess of 5,000 transactions across 3000 unique customers by the time I quit, and I didn't bot at all.. A bot could have (and likely did) completely eclipse me in every metric and efficiency benchmarking in grinding.
>>750236942Just make the whole game F2P with good rewards for a sub token (like lootboxes).On PvP servers, the whole map should be PvP.An RMAH should exist on all servers.
>>750237638god I fucking loved the RMAH. I never got why /v/ shit on it so hard, it was SO ripe for exploitation early on.
>>750237638>Just make the whole game F2P with good rewards for a sub token (like lootboxes).No, fuck off and kill yourself you piece of trash gambling addict. F2P should have only ever been the demo version of the game and pandering to poors is what killed MMOs in the first fucking place.
>>750236965>so procedurally generated?I mean, just a bunch of possible spawn areas, but I don't think it's necessary. I wouldn't even have routes, just a clumped area of resources so people don't have to look up guides.But the point of me saying you can't do anything about those things is to outline that doing something isn't necessary. Equals and opposites.
>>750237123It doesn't matter if people bot on full-loot PvP servers, not that bots are ever a problem anyway. If the economy is good, people can just buy low and sell high. The economy regulates itself.
>>750237742A B2P or pure sub MMO isn't going to get anywhere near the numbers of games like Fortnite (a 14M concurrent and a 44M daily unique, previously). There's nothing wrong with F2P + a sub token.
we need more MMOs with esoteric mechanics, and reasons to NOT give out your knowledge for free on wikis. wikis and build guides really ruin MMOs
>>750238184>wikis and build guides really ruin MMOsI disagree. What can people tell others that ruins the game for them or others?
>>750237981Exactly why I said it's pointless, the point of the thread is hypotheticals, my suggestion WOULD fix mmos from their current state, to what they were when they were universally agreed upon to have been their best.Yours would just be the exact same as they are now where people minmax the shit out of itYou cannot trust stupid fucking normalfags to not ruin everything for themselves and everyone else. They are cattle. Yes, I am smarter, you are smarter. We know this, but it doesn't matter.
>>750238183>muh numbersI care about quality, not quantity. I don't want to play with people who have your values. Lootboxes are absolute fucking cancer. "Sub tokens" are microtransactions. End your life.
>>750238252because it's not just telling, it sets a narrative of particular builds being the "best", which will lead to people not relying on their own sense of knowledge or skill or awareness but instead the "trusted websites". We literally see this with every single MMO that gets a beta, the wow forever beta, every single small change is run through 8 billion simulations and if you run anything less than perfect you'll be last pick for any content that requires grouping unless you're playing with a group of people anyway (which isn't even relevant to the conversation at large, then because you can ignore all that shit freely).
>>750231539Normalize strict roleplay and rules, sexy characters and make the world outside towns dangerous. Embrace world-PVP but fuck over players who brigade and try to run the world through PVP.
>>750238847PVP-based games are dogshit and never work because psychopaths cannot be tardwrangled and it is 100% pointless to ever try. I agree with your first four points though. Naming conventions should be strictly enforced at the very least, no more "funny" names and certainly no more "xXxStonerlord42069xXx".
>>750238996I don't really see ways to make the world of the game compelling without allowing the danger of PVP. In every MMO I've ever played, the memories that stick out to me the most are the PVP ones.And I don't think a game needs to be PVP-based to have world PVP. I think you should punish PVPers with harsh penalties if they disrupt the game. Punish corpse camping with in-universe reasons, make their lives back at town difficult, and don't reward them for PKing either. Put bounties on repeat offenders that makes their in-game time miserable.Another guideline I've been thinking about a lot is that I don't think guilde-run towns and shit like that should be a thing in most cases. It has always turned me off to see something like "This town claimed by faggot guild". Instantly takes me out of the immersion. IMO the NPC factions should always be the strongest in-universe. That always gives a better grounding for RP anyway, especially if you can join the in-universe factions.
>>750239352>Punish corpse camping with in-universe reasons, make their lives back at town difficult, and don't reward them for PKing either.None of this works. Being an asshole to strangers on the internet is the golden reward for the PVP psychopath. Pandering to PVP psychopaths always ends with the game's death, usually in a slow spiral that picks up speed as it goes. PVPers should never be shown human rights and should be given as little as possible at all times. If I could, I would personally execute them all in real life.
>>750231539the genre fixed itself by abandoning everclone muhmorepigger nigger shit for fags
wizardry online handled death my favorite of any MMO, except when the mtx showed up.Essentially when you died, your soul was thrown into a cauldron, you could sacrifice your material goods to "lighten" your soul and make surviving more probable, and if you made it, you got to come back to life with soul scars (lowered odds of success going forward, that could not be broken through). If you failed, you got full wiped, whole character GONE.Had to actually look around for traps and shit, no magical "search" skill to do it for you, if you stepped on a raised plate you got that arrow right through your fucking skull. FUCK it was so good, but that mtx was fuckin heinous. guaranteed revivals, enhancement bullshit, it was the worst of the worst.
>>750239528Well stop being a bitch about it. Games function just fine with PVP. Have you ever actually played on a WoW PVP server? Hostile factions often just run past each other and don't want to bother getting into a short-lived ganking back-and-forth. Its poorly made shit games that try so hard to market themselves to PVP assholes that are hard to get into. Without the possibility of danger in the overworld, I don't think an MMO world is actually alive. It turns into a castrated social game for ERP or something pathetic like retail WoW. Its fags like you who just want MMOs to be time-wasting raid-slop or another secondlife without any adventure in it. I personally think pathetic specimens like you who need the edges on everything to be sanded away who need to be castrated.
>>750239981>dangerOkay, full inventory drop on death.
>>750240131If you go with that kind of system, then it has to be a game where items don't have that much meaning. So no Epic swords, just GOOD swords. Or restrict that to certain zones.IIRC ragnarok had a "Nightmare" zone here if you died, there was a chance you'd drop one piece of your gear. And that was a game where it could take you a week or longer to farm up a really nice piece of gear
>>750240265>So no Epic swords, just GOOD swords.Not necessarily. It just probably won't be shit you have to go through multiple 6 hour raids to obtain, but maybe it might take you the better part of a day to farm another one.
>>750239981Have you played UO? No? Shut the fuck up.
>>750240374I did actually, and had a family member at Origin. By his words, they needed to castrate the game because "In Korea they love PK and dancing on each other's bodies and stuff like that but Western gamers are too emotional for that". So basically fags like you.And the thing is I'm not even advocating for a PK system as hardcore as UO's. More something like WoW's.Hell I'd be OK with Luna Online's PK system. You could flag yourself red. In this state, other players can kill you without penalty, but you could then kill a player. You got no reward for doing so, and the person you PK'd sufferent no XP loss. If you attacked a player, you stated flagged for a long period. You almost never experienced PVP, but the possibility of it existing made the world more fun.
I need to get back into RS3 but honestly I find it so fucking boring.I should just play OSRS maybe.
>>750231539stop catering exclusively to casual/shitter PvE focused dad gamers. devs that cater to these people really struggle to make games that are actually good.Heres a secret for making a good game that was commonly talked about like 20 years ago but people seemed to have forgotten: make it easy to play/learn but hard to master.Focus your balancing around hardcore gamers. once you get that sorted out then you can make adjustments so that the casual shitter retards find the game approachable. for single player games this is extremely easy, you just focus balancing around hardcore gamers 1st so that at the highest level it is an engaging game, and then add an easy or "normal" mode where the gameplay mechanics that require skill arent required and damage/health numbers are catered to casual gamers.
>>750241651The alternative to this is to design your game around easy or normal mode where the game mechanics are then not well thought out, not engaging, and then you add a mode where the damage/HP numbers are tweaked to make things more tedious to the point players need to game your shit system so they dont get stat checked by enemies. Like skyrim, where the game mechanics are not fun and the game is either too easy on normal mode or you are getting randomly 1 shot on hard mode and need to hit an enemy 30 times while abusing its shit AI so you never get 1 shot
>>750231539Kill all current MMO players and the studios that make MMOs.
>>750231539by going back to the 2000's where 90% of the gaming community wasn't composed by metaniggers raging homosthat will fix all videogames actually, not only multiplayer
>>750234741I miss MMOs because the internet was new. Communication was new. The worst thing you could be called on this website was a summerfag. Tell me, when was the last time you read that word. Can you even say you’ve read that word before. Likely not. This is a dying website, in a dying format of communication, the internet is dead and it will not come back, there will be no WoW golden age again
>>750231539Dragon's Dogma Dark Arisen Online 2.Don't fuck it up like the first one with absurd amounts of unfun grinding and disabling the physics that make the combat unique and emergent in the first place for "balance"
