Why can't Bethesda make big cities? Whiterun is the main city in Skyrim and it's tiny.
>>750902717they aren't fun to navigate and fill with meaningful content (see vivec and imperial city)
Why can't Obsidian make big cities? Vegas is the main city in Fallout New Vegas and it's tiny.
>>750903271they have to use the same shitty nigger bethesda engine
>>750903271the "city" is all of vegas not just the strip>>750904863engine isn't the issue, for that era of games it was the console limitations.
>>750902717Ancient cities were not very big by modern standards.
>>750904863Just about every bethesda game has bigger cities than New Vegas and the strip/freeside.>>750905031And the photo is also just (part) of the strip. You don't want to compare freeside with vegas proper lol
>>750903271I hate you stupid fucking redditor sub 90 iq faggots so much, thinking the more buildings the better, which results in garbage like cyberpunk 2077 where you have a big city but it feels like a fake prop and 99% of buildings are not enterable
>>750902717vgh
>>750905251Why did you reply to me and not the OP? Seems like a bit of a bias and masked motivations going on if you ask me.
FUCK JANNIES THEY AUTOSAGED A CIV5 THREAD THAT DID NOTHING WRONG!
>>750905310what do they eat?
>>750902717Bethesda makes cozy themeparks for ADHD low IQs. Their players don't want to get lost in some big scary realistic city where nobody cares about them, they want Disneyland where they are a super special boy. If you don't like that, it's not for you.
>>750905251Ugh same I hate that 99% of buildings in real life aren't enterable too. Makes it feel fake.I definitely wish every single location was just five 1 room buildings. It would give real life so much sovl.
Have you not seen Vivec City
>>750903271hmm i wonder why the devs making a spinoff game with very little time made it a lot smaller...
>>750905416I prefer shallow, unpretentious and fun over shallow, superficial, sophomoric allegories and sociopolitical parallels disguised as something profound and insightful.And idiot acting like an idiot is far more tolerable than an idiot acting like a genius. Obsidian writers are the spitting image of the latter.
>>750905397mammoth cheese
realistically big cities are not fun to explore, especially not when there are dozens of them around
>>750905593Holy fuck dude, acquire some self awareness immediately.
>>750902717Skyrim had to run on an Xbox 360 that was obsolete already in 2005.
>>750902717in theory it's better to have smaller more content dense towns but I think the radiant AI stuff is what really kills the scale of these places. Morrowind could afford larger spaces that were content dense because NPCs just hung out, instead of following a schedule.
>>750905416>Copy and paste>Copy and paste>Actually sectioned off each other and not a singular areaPft
>no! i need thousands of houses and hundreds of shops!!! random nameless NPCs everywhere all around!!!you do not really want this
>>750902717What stopped them from making Whiterun the size of Imperial City. There's no excuse for a capital to not be that large at bare minimum
>>750905705Nah how about you read a book instead of pretending superficial sophmore year philosophy class namedrops make for compelling writing you stupid nigger.
>>750905693>I need to go into every building and dig through every drawer and talk to every person even though nobody would do this outside of a videogame
More < lessbig city = crash the game
whiterun if he realhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrnMACWp18M
>>750905778Manbabies HATED imperial city>it's too big>there's no reason for it to be so big>takes to long to walk aroundStuff like immersion and realism aren't valuable to these people, they unironically want Legend of Zelda for """"adults""""
>>750902717Because it had to run on 512mb of RAM
>>750902717On a typical visit to Whiterun, there's only 4 places I'm going to visit anyways.
>>750905593>And idiot
>>750902717Quality>Quantity
>>750905992I remember an age where we ridiculed faggots who play walking sims like Gone Homo and Dear Esther. Now suddenly we want the "atmospheric strolling experience"? wtf happened?
>>750902717>>750903271>>750905031Yeah, its console limitations. They could not replicate the scale of Vivec City in Oblivion or Skyrim without those obsolete trashboxes shitting themselves.
>>750904863>>750905583They always do this. It's never Obsidians fault
>>750902717Surely Sentinel is going to be better. The bar was already raised by Novigrad over a decade ago.
>>750906106kek you couldn't be more of a living stereotype of a retard if you tried
>>750902717Skyrim had to run on 7th gen consoles that only had 512MB of memory and a ~9GB storage limit on the disc. They also gave each building a unique NPC(s) and purpose within various quests.
>>750905310"The Beacons are lit!""Sire, the Beacons are lit. Gondor is calling for aid.""And Rohan will answer!"That shit lasted even into Skyrim. Fucking Todd and his retarded vision.
>>750905996>Because it had to run on 256mb of RAMDon't forget that it released on the PS3 as well
>make big city but you can’t enter most buildings >make small city but you can enter every building Bethesda picks the latter
>>750906189If we extrapolate going by the evolution of TES, Sentinel won't even have cities. Just nodes you visit where you can talk to the 5 NPCs from a menu and also loot their houses from the same menu.
>>750902717I've got somewhere around 150 hours in Daggerfall, you don't want to play with big cities, you will get bored in 2 seconds. Here's what you do in cities:>where's the guild relative to me>open map>locate guild>close map>orient myself towards it>open map to check if i'm aligned>close map>get on horse>autorun across the city for 45-60 seconds>check map again>went past it a little bit>turn around>check map>find it>go in>hey, here's a quest to go kill a monster in someone's house somewhere in the city>where is it? fuck off, go figure it out yourself>exit guild>ask random citizen where [residence] is>kill yourself, never speak to me again>repeat x8>it's uhhhhh, north>walk north for a while>ask a random guy again>kill yourself, never speak to me again>repeat x12>it's somewhere east i guess, anyway, fuck off>finally reach destination>enter house, kill monster>leave house, return to guild, turn in quest, beg for a dungeon one this timeTreat personality like the dump stat it is 99% of the time and this can happen to you too. Problem is, people don't want to do this. Just running across the city takes forever, nonetheless finding shops, guilds, temples and houses. The "solution" is teleportation, which just lets you bypass interacting with the city much at all beyond selling items and putting money in the bank. If you pick a good city like Daggerfall (city) then you'll have your guilds close to shops and a bank, so you won't have to walk very far to get everything you need. In other words, the "solution" is to make the city small.I like Daggerfall a lot, but you guys genuinely don't know what you're asking for because you haven't played it for the exact reason that you're asking newer games be more like it.
>>750905251retard. a city should look like a city. cyberpunk does it fairly well.
>>750905531>Ugh same I hate that 99% of buildings in real life aren't enterable too.Except they are. You're just breaking a law by entering them. But if you're roleplaying a character who breaks into buildings it makes no sense why you cant even interact with the door at all
>>750903271>what /v/ thinks New Vegas isHalf of the strip>what New Vegas actually isThe Strip, East Freeside, North Freeside, Westside, North Vegas, East Vegas, South Vegas
>>750905251I think an open world city with many buildings serving as a facade is fine. it wouldn't be much of a city if didn't have a bunch of buildings after all
>>750905961that's cool but that's not the kind of map that's fun to explore
>>750903271>NV trannies seethe
>>750906343Daggerfall's real problem is it's sparsely populated with anything to do because it was a prototypical game made under an absurd timeframe by what was basically an indie dev by modern standards and it never got its sequel where the devs actually got to refine the formula.People overrate the scale of the game as a prime feature as if it just existing is somehow the fun. Starfield made this mistake. People really don't understand the purpose or value of scale apparently. Videogames will always be mere games, for arrested development adults.
>>750905397>surrounded by farms, fields and forest rich with gameGee idk
>>750906431>break in>its full of generic crap>there's no NPC waiting to tell me his life story and send me on a hilarious questwow lame
>>750906113morrowind had a very decent xbox port
Must suck to be that old guy who never leaves the House of the Dead, and never receives any visitors.
>>750905645But what is their tax policy?
I see no reason to be excited for the next TES when Crimson Desert exists. It's the Bethesda RPG at its peak, a million varieties of gameplay in a huge open world with no shits given about plot.
>>750902717Out of all the things to shit on skyrim, this has always been the dumbest complaint.>>750905843YesThe one reason a game as shit as skyrim sold well is because they nailed the world. And its also why Starfield flopped.>even though nobody would do this outside of a videogameThief characters, duh
>>750905251We get it, you like NV.
>>750906774I can understand people not being interested in playing as predefined characters or having to deal with flashy Koreaslop combat. There's more to TES than simply being openworld.
>>750902717They can, but a realistic city made to scale in an action RPG fucking sucks. For example, Whiterun's gameplay function is to offer quests and stores, anything not related to engaging the player might as well not be there, so they made sure it's not there.
>>750906431>>750906672The solution to this, of course, is AI>devs work on the most important interiors or interiors tied to quests/players are most likely to enter >AI creates generic interiors based off of templates for NPC schedules, radiant quests and scale However even if you do this, it fucks with performanceSo >big city, can’t enter 99% buildings >small city, can enter every building Still remains
>>750906271*Tu tutu tu tu tu tu tuuuuuuu*
>>750906928Daggerfall already had huge cities where you could enter every building. The problem is, there's not a whole lot of use for that besides immersion and most players don't want it because they want a handcrafted whimsical themepark, not a simulation.
>>750906791Skyrim's houses all use the same few building layouts and so little of interest inside them that they could've procedurally generated interiors for a much larger city and got the same result
The main city in starfield is pretty big. I got faith in those niggas to make at least one big city with no loading screens in tes 6
>>750907312The issue is not just the interiors, its the NPCs that live inside of them too.But I agree, there IS room for improvement, I simply reject the idea that we need thousands of cardboard unenterable buildings like in some other game.My hope for TES6 is actually less cities, but bigger. No need to include all of Hammerfell and 10 regions with 10 capitals. Take a slice of Hammerfell, one with 2 major cities. Make those cities big, central hubs, then spread small villages in the rest of the map.
>>750906747Taxes are Thalmor bullshit.Whiterun tariffs the other holds for the import and export of Mammoth Cheese.
>>750907312Yeah it's always been like this, for all the talk of meticulously handcrafted interiors that shit is cookie cutter prefabbed to hell in every single game.For the record I don't even have a problem with this because I'm not some retard who thinks every single corner of an open world needs to be original and intriguing.
>>750907247I would rather my "handcrafted whimsical themepark" be a hundred houses I can't enter that give a better sense of scope for the city, than six houses I can enter to take the sweetrolls.
>>750907649>then spread small villages in the rest of the mapBut what if the player did that instead? Bethesda can simply build two large towns and let the player build the other settlements!
>>750902717nigger Whiterun was made in 2009
I don't have the comparison image anymore but Whiterun has significantly more content than Balmora.
>>750907836You want an immersive simulation akshually and themepark gamers don't want to have to walk that far or ask for directions or check every door to see if they're openable. They don't mind a city looking like a miniature golf course because they don't care about immersion.Neither is wrong mind you, just different strokes.
>>750906672Yes, thank you for explaining again why big cities are bad
>>750907649It's not like Skyrim doesn't have nameless filler NPCs. What's the harm in having more? The named NPCs wouldn't be harder to track down than before. A lot of them are already scripted to constantly occupy notable locations and talk about whatever quest they're waiting to give you
>>750906343Here anon, an rpg where you get your quest information from talking with npcs>Cool, i'm going to make my character very bad at talking with peopleThe rest of your example does kind of sound like ass but taking some points away from making your character the ultimate fighting badass so that they can be more personable might have been a idea...
>>750902717don't worry they'll make a big city with AI assets now
>>750902717A smaller condensed city that serves as a representation of a metropolis is much better for both the player and the developer.I don't want to wander the streets of some giant city in an effort to find something interesting. Bethesda's current approach offers memorable characters, most of whom will have some sort of a quest line to offer you. It's preferable.
If you don't want giant Assassin's Creed sized cities in RPGs you're a low IQ, low T faggot>muh navigationAdd fast travel in the form of rickshaws or whatever, add landmarks to orient yourself with (Arena and Daggerfall cities struggled with this because they were literally just square grids), add back generic NPC dialogue to ask for directionsAdd instant fast travel if it's too hard for console babies>muh hecko handcrafted interiorsMost NPCs and houses in Skyrim are completely forgettable, AI could easily replicate most of them; just limit handcrafted ones to important locations
>>750908159>What's the harm in having more?its confusing and themepark gamers will throw a tantrumthey're mutually exclusive designs like how you can't have an information-rich UI that is also minimalist. A lot of people will look at a cluster of huts calling itself a town and never even crosses their mind how unrealistic it is.
>>750908159>What's the harm in having more?If you gen the buildings you can gen the npc names and their routines too. Unlike guards, they don't need to respawn.As I said, I COMPLETELY agree there is room of improvement for their cities.
engine limitationsnpc limitationsphysics straing on the engine they could make a huge city but it would have to be sectioned off heavily with loading screens
Two Worlds had bigger cities than skyrim lmao
>>750907851I don't think so (Balmora has like three times the number of NPC's, multiple guild halls etc.), and even if, Whiterun is supposed to be an ancient economical capital of Skyrim, whereas Balmora isn't even the official Hlaalu Capital.The scale in Morrowind worked because Vvardenfell was supposed to be a backwater/Temple preserve just recently opened to Imperial colonisation. The Imperial City wasn't plausible as the beating heart of an Empire. The cities in Skyrim were laughable.
>>750908393Yet no City in all of Skyrim even touches the imperial city in oblivion, there's no excuse.>muh loading screens>muh loreNeck yourself
>>750908273Name 5 interesting things that happened in Solitude when playing Skyrim
>>750908223Daggerfall is a (shoddy) simulation and a lot of it is ass, as simulations tend to be.It has a cult following for a reason though, just like simulations have their audience.
What city in hammerfall would be the imperial city of the province? Does it look as kino as the imperial city?
>>750908401Two Worlds II is a good game.
>>750908474bro that shit is terrible the npc dont even scale properly to the roadsit looks like gi joe action fingures in a lego set
>>750902717PS3 was a toaster that could barely run Skyrim and ended up bugging out anyways after enough playtime.
>Bethesda lovingly handcrafted each city and it's inhabitants>the richest man in Whitetun sleeps at the inn because the devs forgot to give him a key to his own house
>>750906867TES6 doesn't even have Jeremy Soule, it's fucking over for the last bit of appeal the series had.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_34gUVqLkAo
>>750908656>ended up bugging out anyways after enough playtime.I mean to be fair.................................
>>750909051Okay? What does that have to do with anything? Do you guys ever stop giving CD a bad reputation here?
>>750909051>Is named Jeremy Soule>Made incredibly soulful music
>>750909143Anon, the only good parts of both Oblivion and Skyrim were Jeremy Soule's OSTs. He's gone, so what the fuck is TES6 going to offer? We saw what modern Bethesda is like with both Fallout 4 and Starfield, and both were trash.
>>750909202What does Miyamoto have to do with this?
>>750908223Yeah, but the thing is, you only need personality for two things: buying/selling and asking townsfolk where something is. Those town quests are also basically optional, since you can endlessly so 'no I want a different quest' at guilds for no penalty. You don't even need to have a particularly low personality stat, just the starting value of 40-50 is enough for most people to tell you to eat shit and die when you show up to their small town asking for directions so you can kill a werewolf. I've made 4 or 5 characters in DF, only my first one had this issue, but he really was incredible in combat. I imagine a lot of first-time players do something similar, as I just tried to make him a heavy armor longsword speed god (which he was). But as a result of being a high elf and having a mediocre personality stat, it was nigh-impossible for me to ask anyone for anything, since most humans hate altmer, and your reputation with 'common citizens' matters more than you know during character creation.My point being that for the average person picking up a TES game, they're going to have a really negative experience if they don't actively choose to put points into personality and just take every quest. Honestly, that 'repeat x12' is an underestimation, you could talk to 50 people in a row and still not get a single person willing to point you in a direction. It also is just mediocre design. If you get assigned a dungeon quest, you're told the name of the dungeon, you go into your travel menu, type it in and then go. You'll be taken straight to the dungeon. If you get a town quest, the questgiver does not mark it on your map, despite the fact that townsfolk can do this if they like you enough. I get that you want people to have varied builds and be good or bad at certain things, but it really just railroads a low-personality character into never ever taking town quests.
>>750902717>>750903271the age old question>glorified village but each npc has a status, routine, personality, sometimes quest importance>sprawling metropolis with five notable characters but otherwise just generic npcs only good for going on murderhobo spreesthe latter is fine if you're playing GTA, but you asked this question about an RPG
>>750909440Sounds like it be improved if Daggerfall had something like an intimidation mechanic where NPCs will give you at least some information on where you need to go if your character looks dangerous enough. They might not be willing to tell you that the house you need to go to has a secret entrance or whatever but they'd at least point you where you need go to out of fear you'll lob their head off
>>750902717
>>750909579>each npc has a personalityI'd be a lot warmer and a lot happier with a belly full of mead
>>750910689Dragons?
>>750902717Novigrad was actually quite big. It just needed more verticality and indoors and radiant AI, and it would be a great fantasy city. I'm still waiting for the day someone actually tries to do something comparable to GTA 6 Vice Dale, but the fantasy version. That would be quite the sight...
>>750902717>mogs every Bethesturd city ever made
>>750904863Gen 4 SSDs make loading screens 0.5 seconds, and you save a shitton of performance and improve memory efficiency substantially by instancing things. And it also allows for permanent persistence, which all other seamless engines do not have. They're tradeoffs, and DirectStorage basically minimizes Bethesda's costs to near nothing while retaining its unique strengths of its approach.
>>750909202>Jeremy Soulehis name is Virgin Rapeman
Even if you don't want big "quantity over quality" cities, you have to admit Skyrim towns are too small given their number.It would be fine if they were just 50% bigger.As is, they usually only have one of everything. Even Oblivion had at least 2 inns per town.
>>750906692I grew up playi>loadingng it and while it worked al>loadingright there were some iss>loadingues with load times and transitions be>rebooting console for more memorytween areas.
>>750911836Dragon Age II was kind of that.Now I know it re-used maps all to hell and was a narrative RPG not open world, but the idea of telling a rags-to-riches story set almost entirely in a single city over the timespan of a decade was an intriguing concept. It was total ass because of an 18 month dev time and might've still been tonally off, but it put the idea out there in a tangible form.
>>750911836I thought Kuttenberg was pretty good. I know its not as big as whatever gta6 is going to be, but its still massive.
>>750912202you're right, we need more games to do an "open city" concept. we still have them sometimes, but the industry pivoted more to open world with vast swathes of boring empty fields.
>>750902717The Elder Scrolls were never good, honestly.
>>750912202I liked Kirkwall in theory but virtually everything about that game was terribly executed and what fun was to be had was just gawping at how tasteless and stupid the game was
>>750905416>copypasted instanced rectangles (also clearly using mods and daggerfall unity, typical disingenuous faggot)>identical repasted pseduo-pyramids, everything in the city is actually in instanced hallways and doorways>also yet again modded with a new area by the silt strider that isn't there in the real game and fancy texture mods >only oblivion and skyrim have actual real unmodded screenshots, and oblivion uses the worldspace models with only lowpoly low detail LOD models omitting all the details for the inside of the city while the skyrim one uses the in-city version of the city with the outside world being the lowpoly low detail LOD version of the outer landsWhy can none of you fucking fagots ever even make a passing attempt at arguing a point legitimately?
>>750912592retard
>>750912592What does the overworld LOD have to do with the city?
>>750912702he's doing that leftist thing where he nitpicks everything but the actual point
>>750912702>what does failing to show an actually equal comparison between things have to do with anything
>>750912592>>identical repasted pseduo-pyramids, everything in the city is actually in instanced hallways and doorwaysThe cantons are also one of the worst places to navigate
>>750912825Nobody was comparing the areas outside the cities
>>750912952>something something pretending not to understand
>>750903085Yup, it already takes 60 seconds to run from the city gate to dragonsreach for a quest (and you'll have to slow down to let stamina recharge)
>>750905251NV is a post apocalyptic world of ruins. I can suspend my disbelief for its biggest city being small. Elder Scrolls should have larger cities. Night City in Cyberpunk is amazing. Measuring cities by number of enterable interiors is retarded. Even without many interiors, a single block of NC has more life and detail than all of Whiterun and all its interiors.
>>750905767I do actually.Cyberpunk and Witcher 3 felt far more immersive when I was told I was in a big city, and actually was. Instead of having to pretend that the 5 huts was the powerful capital of a whole region.
>>750913010You didn't have to point out what you're doing
>>750913117>n-no uDo you actually get dopamine by posting retarded bullshit? Or do you just get off to being retarded when someone points out someone else's point is retarded?
>>750906774Because it has finite content and isn't moddable the way ES is. Are you stupid or something? It was a mid game and I'm ready to move on to better things. Even TW3 will be highly moddable and will also just outright get more attention from the community for them, too.
>>750906282Then they should not set the game in a place that is a big city.They should contain the adventure to a bunch of small towns and shit. Places they can actually handle. Don't tell the player the 5 houses is actually the capital the whole country, they just have to pretend really hard.
>>750913195The point of not bothering to overlay screenshots of two separate world spaces to satisfy your autistic premise of fairness for something totally irrelevant to the discussion?
I like to shit on MW because its funny but is Vivec really a good representative city? It's dunmer commieblocks and just totally sucks. Isn't Mournhold bigger and more conventional?
>>750913218>and isn't moddable the way ES isPlease don't act like mods for Skyrim do anything beyond fucking around with the combat to make it a lamer Dark Souls or Monkey King.
>>750913402>still pretending not to understand
>>750913720I must be genuinely retarded because I actually don't understand, and the fact that you say it's a problem but can't come up with a reason why it's a problem only makes me think you're full of shit
>>750902717consoles wouldn't be able to handle it
>>750914007it's been a console series since Morrowind
>>750902717This game is 42 years old.
>>750913405Just because you stopped keeping up doesn't mean it still exists the way you remember it.
>>750902717>Why can't Bethesda make big cities?They are inept. They don't know how to optimize. It's not even science.
>>750914151Anon it's still like that. Nothing has changed beyond the animation frameworks getting better.
>>750908531You won't get me to defend S*litude, but imagine if the city were as devoid of memorable NPCs only 4 times as big.
>>750902717Skyrim is uncharted frontier land. It's perfectly sized, really.
>>750914426>Skyrim is uncharted frontier land?????????Not only is Skyrim where humanity first landed, it has been continuously inhabited for thousands of years
>>750913979You are, because you've already been told what the problem was and you still don't get it.
>>750914469>it has been continuously inhabited for thousands of yearsThen what are the humongous ruins?
>>750914552Burial sites from thousands of years of people dying and being buried?There is even a quest where a guy asks you to clear his own family's draugr crypt because a necromancer is messing with his ancestors.
>>750914552
>>750914263well whatever, es6 will provide a vasty superior technical baseline and foundation for a new generation of mods. no more installing 1092109210 to get a modern looking experience. im still looking forward to it
>>750908531Solitude is so retarded, they could have fixed it so easily>like 25% of the """""city""""" is just the open courtyard barracks>absolutely fucking ZERO verticality besides the blacksmith area, the entire mountain side of the city could have a lower levelHonestly they should have just scaled the entire map up by 100% and filled the rest in with more buildings/sidequests. Fucking Dawnstar has more going on than the main capital city of the region.
>>750914502I've been told the image comparing the scale of cities doesn't show off the details outside of Whiterun. Why is that a problem?
>still pretending not to understand
>>750903085The imperial city us tiny though.
>>750915368>still arguing without an argumentYou could point out what I'm missing instead of treating me like I'm simultaneously braindead and smarter than I look. I'm going to keep asking as long as you keep posting
>>750915575and yet its still too big and scary for themepark cucks
>>750915635read, you actual retard. READ.
>>750916094>equal comparison Equal comparison of WHAT?What do you think the picture is comparing? Is it also an unfair comparison because it doesn't show how Skyrim NPCs have a million times more polygons? Or maybe not showing that Leyawin's buildings are painted in different colors is unfair. Shouldn't it show all the biomes in the game too?I'm not a fucking mind reader anon. What are you on about?
>>750909051You can't really blame Todd or Bethesda for his suicide though
>>750906139>>750903271todd personally posting in these threads defending bethesda
>>750916878he's the one behind the disparaging posts too just to stimulate conversation
It probably goes against some “core philosophy” or whatever bullshit in their design bible, but I think they could really solve this issue with a little more smoke and mirrors. Like, you have to load into Whiterun or whatever anyway. Just make the city appear way bigger on the outside, and then limit the actual explorable area to whatever they’re comfortable with. Especially for those cities on the borders of the map - you could essentially design a “backdrop” and just limit the player area to the front part. I don’t really mind a small pc area, I understand and people are right about that not really being a bad thing. But the suspension of disbelief is going to be stretched way too far, especially by modern standards, if they continue with these 5 house metropolises.
>>750902717who does big cities? GTA, Yakuza but most of the buildings might not even be there, the people are just random spawning mobs and the cities in these games are kinda the focus. TES doesn't need big cities but big dungeons.
>>750905397Honestly, I find Skyrim annoying because Bethesda actually did think through the logistics and economics of it. Aside from like Morthal, every city has a very clear reason why it exists and how the people there survive. It just reminds me that Bethesda could've done this with Fallout but didn't because Emil doesn't give a shit.
>>750920381>see that city>you can only visit half of it
>>750920682people don't want big dungeons, they want BotW shrines
>>750905992As it was presented in game, it was too big and there was no reason for it to be big.Because they didn't put any content in there.Oblivion was a solidly ungabunga Elder Scrolls where you just fight all the time, and they had this big non-combat area of the game.Everything in Oblivion was so timid, sanitised and kiddie-friendly that I don't think they ever had good ideas on what to do in a big city. For instance you can't really be a criminal: you have to register with the proper authorities and get your thief license.So there's no "city content" like gang fights, smuggling, drug trading, nobles feuding, landlords attacking renters to force them to leave, goblin infestations in the sewers, noble that's secretly a vampire who is a serial killer.
>>750920880All this stuff is here. Except the gang fights because there's only one gang.There's even 2 unrelated quests involving a secret vampire in the city.
>>750920815sadly
>>750902717all that bethesda needs in order to sell their game is a functional product and a good video game trailer. its like nutting in a woman. once your seed is in her its her problem
>b-but big city not fun to exploreSounds like shit devs
>>750903085>they aren't fun to navigate and fill with meaningful content (see vivec and imperial city)In order words, the problem are casuals who just want everything handed for them. May they should just play zelda or some shit like that.We're never going to the a realistic full sized world with this mentality. If navigation or finding quests is such an nuisance, just fucking use fast travel or other zoomer QoL bullshit.
>>750902717cause big cities are absolutely retardedyou believe you want them until you have them and it takes like 0.03 seconds until you regret ever wishing for them
>>750920763>see that massive imperial metropolis? >it's literally a hamlet at best
>>750905116You still had upwards of 10,000 people living in them
>>750908223It would be alright if the maps made any sense, but what the fuck is this shit? Daggerfall is basically unplayable unless you are turbo autistic, unemployed, and no life. There is nothing to find in all but a few of these buildings. They made the right move making the maps smaller and denser in Morrowind. The problem is then they started making the maps smaller and emptier with Oblivion but at least they were alive. Then in Skyrim the towns were small, empty, and dead.
>>750902717Because they're fucking retarded.
>>750922879>casuals who just want everything handed for themTry Diablo 1. The worst of both worlds, small village but having the mage and healer on the opposite site of the map. Fuck whoever was responsible for that.
>>750903271>all those seething replieskekaroo
>>750905310People think they want this until you actually have to spend 30 real life minutes walking from one side of the city past endlessly copy pasted houses and NPCs just to reach the one named NPC on the other side of town you're supposed to bring an item to.
>>750903271>>750903085>>750902717Name 1 game that makes actually big cities and I can go inside every building move around cups and use utensils, and has similar graphics to even just Skyrim.>B-but going inside doesn't add anything I don't give a fuck every single building should be enterable
cuck
>>750902717Imperial City is pretty big
>>750924478kek
>>750902717Whiterun, Solitude, Riften and Windhelm are perfectly sized; caricatures of larger cities condensed for convenience using sightlines and smart composition to make them appear larger than they are.
>>750924843Crimson Desert lets you enter practically all houses and buildings. And loot them too.
>>750916994I could be Todd. You could be Todd. We, all of us, could be Todd.
>>750902717>whiterun is tinyGuess you never made it to the cloud district
>>750902717Large empty uninteractable cities are shit.
>>750903271vegas is pathetically small in person so that's accurate>>750924665it'd give you a reason to ride a horse
>>750908531Four were being attacked by a dragon and one was when a riot broke out over me dropping some platemail on the ground
