Zelda was dying before BOTW came out according to two former Nintendo employees
Former Nintendo employees can never do anything but lie.
>>751525602>botw is focus group slopAnd here I thought Nintendo just did whatever they wanted
>>751525685Kit and Krysta are LARPers. They literally did nothing but YouTube (and probably fucking a tone at their office). The sexual tention was nuts at times. Really inappropriate.
Are these 2 losers the only people Nintendo has ever fired?
>>751525602DUUUURRRRR, we were fucking there when it stagnated, we asked for change up.
How could that be?They added touch screen controls/wagglin and even more hand holding to the series. Weren't a gorillion casuals and nugamers supposed to make it another Wii Sports level success?
It really was.
>>751525602>Kit>Krysta>they express themselves like a millennial teenagerhmmmm...
>>751525602These lying fuckers always say this. It was the same with Fzero.They just dont want to make new games in the series.
>Twilight Princess (Wii) sales: 8m>Skyward Sword: 4m>Oot3D: 6m>Link Between Worlds: 4m>Majora’s Mask 3D: 3.5mI mean I guess if you just ignore the elephant in the room with TP
Why do normies say like in every sentence?
>>751526403OoT was higher than TP nigga that's a downward trend spanning like 15 years
>>751526352The fuck would they make F Zero for? there's nothing to be done with it.
>>751525602The last 3D game in the series underperformed and was considered lukewarmly, but it's not like Skyward Sword didn't sell because the interest wasn't there, it just wasn't very good (and TP sold very well). The post-3D-era 2D games were never big ticket items and even then I'm pretty sure ALBW did just fine. Prior to that, PH was just middling and ST was stuck following it with a strange setting that probably didn't attract anyone. They just didn't bother trying. I'd respect them a whole lot more if they just outright said they ran out of ideas for good dungeons and satisfying progression because I'd believe it.
>>751526890Spirits tracks is the only one I regret not getting, from what I heard, despite hsaring my gripe PH, ST just have something that I woud have really loved to play.
>>751526051I knew it was doing bad but I didn't know it was original Wii Skyward Sword underselling Phantom Hourglass levels of bad.
>>751526051Crazy how the games were selling worse than the Dark Souls franchise before BOTW. I always thought Dark Souls was a niche little series before Elden Ring, and that Zelda was a behemoth on par with Call of Duty and that Breath of the Wild was not that big of a leap sales wise.
>>751527373The Zelda series had a lot of prestige but outside of a few games (original, OOT and TP) it wasn't that big of a seller before BOTW.
>>751527373Gaming as an industry was generally on a much smaller scale (with exceptions) until the late 2000s. TP's 8 million was very respectable for the time.
>>751525602>Zelda was dying before BOTWNo shit.
>>751526051>Used to get a new Zelda every couple of years>Now we've had three (now four) games in a decadeYeah, feels really alive.
>>751525602Linear? Nah, that ain't workin'You make it open for the normies, seeMoney for nothing, get your 10s ez
>>751527373I wouldn't say that the souls series was selling better than Zelda until Dark Souls 3. DS1 took a few years to sell 1.5 million copies, and DS2 sold better, but not that much better. Both were nowhere near Zelda's numbers when they released. Dark Souls 3 was the one that blew up, mostly because of the reputation souls games had built up with their "difficulty" and through streaming and word of mouth. DS3 was the only one that sold considerably better than most Zelda games, moving over 10 million units within 4 years and is estimated to be over 15 million by now. And Sekiro and BB too with both their numbers being around 10 million, but they're not part of the Dark Souls franchise if you want to get technical.
>>751526051yeah this track follows. Another Zelda in the old style probably kills the series
Well, it's true. Aonuma ran the series into the ground with the shitty WW/TP/SS/PH/ST and the countless gay side games.BOTW was the first good Zelda since the N64 days, despite it's shortcomings. An even BETTER Zelda would combine BOTW's innovations with the world design of the N64 games, without all the gay railroaded sequences, fetch quests, cutscenes and hand-holding of the Aonuma entries.
Nintendo was dying as a whole, the Switch saved Nintendo including Botw, MK8D and Mario Odyssey being released in the launch year.
>>751525602>Worked for Nintendo >Still find a way to shit on them and doubt themI hate those retards so much. All they can do is insult Nintendo nowadays
>>751528056Normies love linear too you fucking idiot. Zelda always presented itself as a series with a large world to explore, except in the Aonuma entries you were railroaded from location to location, with zero freedom to approach the game at your own preference - something that LTTP, OOT and MM didn't have issues with.It didn't have to go so hard into open world tedious checklist shit, but at the very least being able to freely explore and approach the dungeons in the order you like was an enormous improvement over the last few shitty games. If you're nostalgic for the GC/Wii games, it's clear you were too young to experience a good Zelda.
>>751525602Skyward Sword sold less than half of Twilight Princess' copies despite the Wii having monster install base so yeah, no shit. It doesn't take the Nintendo Minute guys to confirm it.
>>751526051LBW is the second best Zelda game after LttP. So as far as I'm concerned it's in a worse spot now than a decade ago
>saves a dying franchise>gets nothing but hate for it by "true" zelda fanszelda fans are ungrateful
>>751528456>in the Aonuma entries you were railroaded from location to location, with zero freedom to approach the game at your own preference>something that [...] MM didn't have issues with.MM is one of the games that railroads you the most. You can't even access the second, third and fourth overworld regions without story progression items from the previous one. Arrows from Woodfall for Snowhead, Epona i.e. the Powder Keg from Snowhead for Great Bay etc. It's like if OoT didn't even let you get into Kakariko or Lake Hylia until required.
We already knew that
>>7515283343DS and pokemon would've kept them afloat
>>751528667MM doesn't lock you into sequences where an NPC says, "no, you can't go there!", or "collect these tears of light before you can enter the next area!" Over and over again.The only sequence where you're locked into something in MM is the opening section as the scrub... while WW/TP/SS operate like that the entire fucking game.Yeah, you can't progress the dungeons in a preferred order - I wish MM didn't have that aspect, but you can at least go anywhere you can physically access on the map. You're simply locked out by the items and abilities you have, which is a trillion times better than the other Aonuma games. However, I do see your point, and Aonuma'a approach in those later games is like a mutation of what he tried in MM.For me, it's less about "go to any dungeon in any order you want" (which I would like more of), but the issue is more "you are forced to do these story sequences, collectathon garbage like tears of light, in this specific area, mini game or chore for an NPC, over and over again."You also ignore how that other than the dungeons themselves, MM at least has so many side quests that naturally open up as you get access to more items and abilities. The world access expands pretty organically.
>>751527373Dark Souls 2 was revealed at TGA when they were still hosted by Spike TV. The series immediately blew up with DaS, a lot of people forget this.
>>751528456I was shitposting since they said the series was in dire straits
>>751529047Dude I love money for nothing as well, I just wanted to take your points seriously even if I knew the song reference
>>751527806>three new Zelda games in the past decade>and two of them are asset/world rehashesFucking grim.
>>751528610>saved Zelda>by making it Ubishitslop
>>751528610BotW had its time and place, but the series has grown past the need for its design philosophies/extremes. Let go of the past.
>>751529517>Let go of the pastThe irony of OoT fans saying this is insane.
>>751526051Wait why didn't the Minish Cap do as well as the other handheld games? I liked that one.
>>751529932It came out when the DS was about to release (Europe and Japan) or already released (US).
>>751526051Delete this, we are supposed to pretend that classic zelda is better now
>>751529671nostalgic Switchfag can't let go of his 10 year old game and wants it to be the only Zelda game, sad!
>>751530053>another shareholder that says big number means better gameIt was ubislop for the masses.
>>751526051Lets seeSkyward Sword was shit, this is widely regarded as the correct take, raped the series lore, and it wasn't good, nor did it do anything particularly well. Stamina meter was an okay addition.The 3DS games were handheld mobile games, with the second one being some sort of rougelike/lite 4 swords co-op style slop.People were waiting for a proper mainline Zelda for years, it was going to sell no matter what, all they had to do was not make an abortion like Skyward Sword and it would sell I really dislike BOTW, but I can admit to it being better than Skyward.
>>751530630You have to dive into the spinoffs to find a game worse than Skyward Sword though so that hardly says much.
>>751530105Nostalgic N64 fag can't accept that every subsequent 3D Zelda has better dungeons, combat, and exploration. Retarded!
>>751525602>ex-employees say something extremely retarded>youtube video is three fucking years oldSlow news day, piratejeet?
>>751531364The video is from a few hours ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRPt4OHJSq8
>>751525602Im not sure dying was the word. It was nintendo in general needing some serious unfucking. Zelda botw would have been just as unsuccessful as anything else on the wiiU. But nintendo had a great concept for the switch and BotW was going to be the first Zelda that wasnt designed with gamecube hardware in mind in 2017. Devs were obviously tired of the same constraints and limitations for so long, and nintendo's growing obsession with making everything more accessible resulted in progressively bland experiences that tried to appeal to a public that wasnt there.My point is that there was still interest in Zelda. They just needed to get ambitious with it. Of course focus groups dont see beyond "uuuh kids dont care about triforce heroes and grandmas didnt buy Skyward sword. Surely no one likes Zelda anymore" They just needed an actual cool looking game on an appealing console.
>>751526051I always thought of Zelda as a minimum 5M seller, but I guess piracy makes you think the numbers are way bigger than they actually are.
>>751531463>repeat something they said three years agoMust be an extremely slow day, eh?
>>751528112>Another Zelda in the old style probably kills the seriesWe just had Ocarina's remake be exactly that. Nintendo's clearly testing the waters to see if people would accept the series going back to the old style in full.
>>751528542I really wish they'd gone on to make a fully original main game in the same engine, ALBW felt so fucking good to play.
>>751527741TOTK sold 24M but NOBODY talks about it. Fucking grim. It was also a asset flip.
>>751525602Yeah, Skyward Sword is that bad.
>>751531684Pft, barely anyone pirated Skyward Sword. It wasn't worth the hassle.
>>751531604This, pretty much. The fans were there. The games weren't. Everything post Twilight Princess felt like a mis-step or a re-tread, and Nintendo's consoles themselves were failing to find good fanbases. BotW was poised to make a huge comeback just by virtue of being a launch title for a home console people were actually excited for.
>>751525602
>>751531732They're not retiring the Wild style, but old style 3D Zelda (whether they be remakes or new games) is absolutely back on the menu after OoTR's opening sales alone, if for no other reason than to have a better release schedule for the 3D side of the series. Going Wild alone bottlenecked the fuck out of new 3D games for the past 15 years in terms of development and output (not to mention creativity).
>>751526051>>751532103These "original game combined with rereleases from decades later" graphs are retarded.
>>751525602Skyward Sword was irredeemable trash that ruined the lore
>>751532103>No 3DS MajoraI remember both the N3DS console edition and game being sold out everywhere tho
The formula wasnt the problem. It was the fact that every new Zelda was progressively worse than the last since the N64
>>751532218It's the deep purple line on top of the N64 Majora one, same for OoT 3D. It's a stupid way to make a sales graph.
>>751532103Everyone hated the gigantic and obligatory tutorial, right in the beginning of the game, so much that it led straight to Breath of the Wild.
>>751527806You're redarded. In the past decade there have been 5 new zelda releases (you forgot links awakining) and 6 if you count the skyward sword port with majoras mask remake coming in the next couple years and obviously a brand new one likely in development. There might have been a 4 swords game in that timeframe too. You also have access to the majority of the previous games with the only ones missing being the ds and 3ds games for obvious reasons and crossbow training/twilight princess
>>751531850Even better when people mention it it’s usually in regards to how it’s worse than BotW
>>751532958>BotW>TotK>EoWthe remakes aren't new games
>>751533452You counted oot remake so it does and the new zelda game every 2 years doesn't work for pre botw if you dont include remakes
The problem was they could never top OoT despite trying several times.
Totk felt too bloated in terms of mechanics and it lacked grace and wit in terms of their implementation.
>>751526051>>7515272628.8 was a funny joke and all but people were pointing out that the formula was getting stale for a reason
>>751528851The 3DS's success wasn't initially certain, it did really bad for its first year or two
>>751525602Do people really not remember the term Zelda Cycle? This is 100% true Zelda is Nintendo's premier series like Final Fantasy is Square's premier series
>>751526051graph is outdated. botw should be at 36m+ by now inlcuding wiiu and switch 2 versions
>>751525602>>751526051Zelda was definitley in a rough spot prior to BoTW, but I dont like the framing that the franchise was "dying"It was just SS that was shit and flopped. TP sold great and ALBW sold a good amount for a 3DS title
>>751526592Blind retard OoT is only higher than TP when you include the 3DS remake (a completely different game released 10 years later)
>>751534407What about the new remake anon?
>>751531850>NOBODY talks about itYou seethe about every week just like with botw
>>751526051Is spirit tracks good bros?
>>751532094WW and TP were enormous missteps themselves. There's a reason it got a 8.8 on GameSpot, causing Zelda fans to piss themselves with anger. Game deserved a 7.5 at most.
>>751530916>Majora's Mask had better dungeonsexcept it didn't, it had much better side content but the main dungeons of MM suck fucking dick outside of the stone templeWind Waker, while it is definitely a very charming game, The gameplay is worse than OOT or MM or even TPTP, I'll give you, it still suffers a bit from WW's bad combat but the dungeons are definitely good but the wolf parts detract from the quality of the gameSkyward Sword is crap to sell a shitty wiimote gimmickBOTW is an enjoyable game because it was something new for the Zelda franchiseTOTK is mediocre shitThese are objective facts and you cannot argue against them
>>751525602>Skyward Sword/Link Between Worlds/Triforce Heroes eraThat kind of tracks. Spirit Tracks, even. But LBW was genuinely good and as far as I know that sold about what you'd expect from a 2D handheld Zelda.
>>751534891Yes and no. It's probably the last original Zelda with consistently good dungeons and Ghost Zelda is the best sidekick, period. The train-based overworld and mic-based flute sections are so overwhelmingly AIDS though that it kind of snuffs out the good qualities.
>>751535579Great Bay is a fantastic dungeon, top 3 among 3D entries. The world is not ready to accept this.
>>751525602Just like Fire Emblem, Zelda didn't need to be "saved" by pandering to Japanese teenage girls. Just let franchises die with dignity like Mother did. Not everything needs to go on forever.
>>751535579>Shitting on Great BayLARP ALERT
>>751534940True. Wind Waker could have been amazing, but it was just so blatantly rushed, and it really hurt the final product. And Twilight Princess is pretty much THE game to talk about when you want to discuss the "Zelda formula" getting stale, arguably because they were trying to chase the success of OoT so hard.>>751536004>Great Bay is a fantastic dungeon, top 3 among 3D entries.Absolutley. I realized this when I replayed MM a few years back. The mechanics and navigation are extremely satisfying.
>>751526051what happened between OoT and MM? why did MM sell so low?
>>751536150I think you can make the case that TP contributed to making the formula grow stale, but the problem isnt really TP. It's that Skyward Sword doubled down on all the wrong thingsLike no one was asking for a MORE linear, railroaded Zelda after TP
>>751530053It is, the goyim preferring slop doesn't change that fact
>>751536154>what happened between OoT and MM? why did MM sell so low?OoT was the BotW of its time. It brought in a bunch of new fans who really weren't accustomed to Zelda and didn't know what to expect from a follow up, and also weren't necessarily interested in a follow up. There was a actually an epidemic of people referring to MM as "Zelda 2" back in the day because they legitimately thought OoT was the first.Also, the game just looked different and weird. I knew a lot of people who skipped MM when they found out you had to play as a kid for the whole game and wear masks. Some didn't like it because they were specifically expecting a follow-up to OoT set in Hyrule, involving Ganon. Basically, people are retarded.
I remember the exact moment the series was saved.>>751526051People don’t like the kiddie shit games, but Nintendo is obsessed with them.
>>751536154MM had the misfortune of being a late life cycle N64 game release in 2000 when no one wanted to play N64 games anymoreLike the PS2 had already released by the time Majora's Mask came out, basically everything from around this time on N64 sold kinda crapAlso as much as I love MM, the time limit aspect of the game and the depressing atmosphere GENUINELY filters a lot of people. It will always sell worse than OoT
Yeah I mean it's almost like you can't just make the exact same game over and over and over again with only slight alterations and expect your sales to stay high. Zelda is one of the most formulaic series in the entire world, I would argue it's even more formulaic than the average Mario game. I don't really like breath of the wild and tears of the kingdom but I can see why they sold well, because they are actually different in significant ways from the incredibly repetitive content that preceded them.Now, I do know a few people who are very into zelda, and they don't really like those games, but they are also massively autistic and the kind of people who will refuse to try new things and instead simply play Ocarina of Time over and over again on repeat.
>>751527373>I always thought Dark Souls was a niche little series before Elden RingLmao
>>751534407the market had crazy growth during that time. Even if Zelda's popularity stayed stable during the time, the line should have gradually went up.
>>751536154MM is a late era N64 title with higher difficulty. Also has a reputation as a side game with a more experimental gimmick. OoT is a significantly more accessible game and had quite a bit more time on the market to move units. MM had like a year before the Gamecube was on the horizon.
>>751528542It was braindead piss easy. Terrible game.
They didn't fucking put anything new out and the stuff they did was divisive.>SS game out at the end of the console's lifecycle, was really off-putting due to waggle, and sold like 3.5,>ALBW did over 4m on 3DS, was as successful as Oracles games and beat TMC (which itself came out at the end of GBA)>TFH was a gimmicky meme game>The only Wii U releases were HD ports on a dead console.It was "dying" because they just weren't putting out good games on good consoles. The games Nintendo was putting out in the late 00s and early 10s were doign the same sales as the games that came out before .
>>751536806No one sane is playing post-NES Zelda for challenge. There's maybe 3 games worth mentioning in that regard, and even that's pushing it.
>>751536154>>751536605>>751536723It also required the expansion pack which a lot of people never bothered with and it made it harder to lend a friend the game.
>>751536004>>751536084>Erm did you collect the eggs from the mandatory stealth section?>But you can use the stone mask and mitigate any actual challengeYeah really riveting>But anon don't you enjoy the swirling toilet room and arguably the easiest boss in the game after going through insane monotony to get there?No, it all feels bad even if the aesthetic is pleasing
>>751526051
>>751536881Also that. My older brothers were DK64 chads though so I had an expansion pak lying around. Lucky for me, I suppose.
How did the 3ds remakes sell though?
>>751537041about as much as the n64 games >>751526051
>>751526051Its crazy they actually went and made another shitty Four Swords game
>>751536897Current management makes the dungeon navigation interesting, wall pipes are a good environmental touch if you pick up on it, and Zora Link's everything is just fun to use IMO. Only part of Great Bay Temple I don't like is the platform "puzzle" room where you see the solution in 20 seconds but spend the next 2 minutes watching waterfall cutscenes. That part sucks ass.
Deserved desu, the DS/3DS games were middling and Skyward Sword was gutter trash. I’m still surprised with how thoroughly Nintendo challenged their own cookie-cutter Zelda game design in BOTW, a desperate gamble but just what they needed. TOTK didn’t innovate as much but still built upon BOTW’s successes nicely, it’s become one of my favorites. I really liked the OOT remake but I worry Nintendo will take it as a sign to revert to the old linear formula.
>>751525602Yeah? Nobody disagrees with that, do they? You just have a shocking number of people who buy the line Nintendo gave its own executives that the OOT formula was responsible for the decline and not Aonuma's inability to do justice to it.
>>751526051The gimmicks of every mainline game past Majora's Mask kept getting worse and worse>endless amounts of sailing>play a furry wolf with gimmick combat that doesn't use your inventory. also collect random crap before you can actually play the game>everything is a linear dungeon now. questionable controls. empty skyThe series didn't die because its formula went stale, but because Aonuma refused to accept that OOT and Majora's Mask were perfect.
>>751526051>Ocarina of Time becomes the most important game of the generation and one of the most important in gaming history>Majora's Mask comes out too late into the console's life, shorter than OoT even if the game overall is very good>Windwaker suffered from Nintendo teasing a high graphics fight between Link and Ganondorf, only to be followed by toon graphics, sea traveling was also filled with empty space>Twilight Princess got overhyped (Miyamoto even promised around 15 dungeons), it sold well but it obviously tried and failed to become OoT 2.0>The DS games had weird control schemes and being Windwaker sequels didn't help them>Skyward Sword was waggle shit, horrendously gimmicky, extremely linear and solidified the timelines, pretty much everything wrong about the series, almost caused the death of the franchise and the Wii sales reflect it>Link Between Worlds suffered from being an over the head game following the game that almost killed the franchise, even when it was a very good Zelda game>lmao TriForce Heroes, worst possible timing to release the game and one of WiiU era NoA's terrible localizationZelda had been hanging from OoT's popularity for decades, but the series was never as mainstream as people really thought. Breath of the Wild was obviously a huge risk to save the franchise that worked wonders as we all know, the game is fantastic, but unfortunately it was followed by several games that kept recycling the same setting, namely TotK and the Age of musou games. Honestly, I'm very happy that a lot of people are getting exposed to Ocarina of Time through the remake so they can experience what a Zelda game with real dungeons and actual subweapons is, and I can only hope that Aonuma's team can finally find some balance between open world and dungeon-focused gameplay, because TotK definitely wasn't.
>>751535579MM's dungeons were all great. Even Woodfall is better than the majority of dungeons from any other given 3D game.
>>751527806You literally get a new zelda every year
>>751537389Well there is potential to blend them properly. Skyward sword has the most dungeons out of all the games and a bit of free movement. If they look to the very first game for inspiration and introduce the exploration of Botw with dungeons scattered and hidden like the first game they may have success.
