Previous: >>572289890>What... is this?Put simply, a simulation of Pro Evolution Soccer being competed between teams which are embodiments of boards of the 4chan imageboard. The players represent facets of each board's culture. All of the matches are AI versus AI. However, humans "manage" each team, creating their tactics and giving input during games as they happen to make substitutions and tactical changes as they see fit.https://implyingrigged.info/wiki/FAQ>Where can I watch the cup?https://isthisliv.com/4cc/stream.html (4CC)https://cytube.implying.fun/c/vgleague (VGL)>Current Cuphttps://implyingrigged.info/wiki//vg/_League_26>Upcoming Cupshttps://implyingrigged.info/wiki/2026_4chan_Summer_Cup>Upcoming Invitationalshttps://implyingrigged.info/wiki/2026_4CC_Champions_Leaguehttps://implyingrigged.info/wiki//ag/_League_9/11:_Never_Forgethttps://implyingrigged.info/wiki//jp/_League_1https://implyingrigged.info/wiki/Very_Genuine_and_Legit_Vidya_Game_Leaguehttps://implyingrigged.info/wiki/Beta_Bowl_4https://implyingrigged.info/wiki/Divegrass_Before_Christmas_7:_Melty_Under_The_Christmas_Treehttps://implyingrigged.info/wiki/Akko_League_VII:_/fluff/_Bottomed_Girls>Wiki:https://implyingrigged.info/wiki/Main_Page>Sekkrit Code37pebis>DLC Passworddivegrass>statshttps://isthisliv.com/ (4CC)https://sql.implying.fun/ (VGL)>Booruhttps://isthisliv.com/booru/>Archivehttps://implying.fun/>Other videoshttps://implyingrigged.info/wiki/Videos>PES Infohttps://implyingrigged.info/wiki/Pro_Evolution_Soccer_2015https://implyingrigged.info/wiki/Pro_Evolution_Soccer_2021>PreviouslyVGL26 - /hgg2d/ is the 2nd 3rd star winnerFinal ASSThe people demand PES18The people are fine with /4ccg/EXECUTION IN PROGRESS'farmingshitposting
KWABOTY 2026 has been decided
cloud
EXECUTED LIVE ON DENKO'S ISLAND
denko implied only 1 so /ink/ and lav survived. The absolute fucking state of vglco
QD: "I was like, yeah... haha..."
>>572325774
>>572325810The fact that /ink/ manager didn't get killed is fucking insane
>>572325843What the fuck did he think would happen?
>DEADbellum the Executed
Rip, I liked him joining for commentary but he was a mega retard when it came down to communicating >>572325810>>572325846Also true.
I told you fags he wouldn't do shit about /ink/.
Not executing k'wab is a mistake
>>572325810The real crime is k'wab performing another great escape
Ok faggot will you do anything about /ink/ and /sora/ now?
official VGLco stance: Blatant ManagerFC and acting against your team are fine
>>572325896They HAVEN'T addressed this
Will you at least properly check their fake POI next time?
>>572295918>>572309980>>572315249>>572317607>>572317815>>572321023>>572321457>>572325401unironically why is vglco playing into /trash/ccg
So how will we break the news to /nikg/?
Redpill me on kwabellum
>>572326075cipher loves it
>>572326103they just need someone to caretake, they disliked him anyway
>>572326075Cipher's sense of humor.
>>572326075it's just cipher
>>572325774>>572325843I sometimes think I am a piece of shit who is giga cringethen I see stuff like this and suddenly feel much better about myself
K'wab isn't only about the nightly, he's always a bitch who never admits he's wrong. Had the gall to whine about time wasting when he was the biggest time waster this VGL. Should at least get a talking to or a warning for being a bitch
>>572326075compiling all of them like this made cipher have to go for a fap
You have to be a huge retard to DM the person that can ban you something like that. Maybe he is unironically autistic.
Show me on the doll where kwabellum touched you.
>>572326193they will never address this, but unironically
>>572326193that and pinging someone unrelated 20 times over
>>572325970They did nothing wrong though
>>572325802>post beebs nomo
>>572326225Anon we're all unironicly autistic but we're not that dumb
box link doko
>>572326225No shit. I feel bad for the guy but he outlived the graces given to him.
>>572326193k'wab's chimpout was worse than any of kwabellum's, the fact that he was spam pinging somebody who was probably asleep was embarrassing
>>572325802@BEEBS GET ON THIS
>>572325802
>>572326386this tournament will find the PERFECT 18 rules
>>572326412KEK
>>572326412>/hdg/ third failed petwell after /umaJP/ and /omg/ died...
>>572325843>>572325774>>572326194qrd? I was afk.
>>572326547Karabellum permanently banned for being retarded and combative
>>572326547Karabellum is banned. Like for real.
>>572326593>>572326620Kinda sucks 2bh he was helpful, just loves arguing way too much
I wasn't expecting a karabellum execution after he had been mostly quiet this vgl. worst faggots survived though
Now that he's gone, can we get gookshit and sportsball back? We need to balance the good with the bad.
>>572326593>>572326620what did he do this time, did he piss off QD and he had enough? How did he piss off QD?
--- WARNING ---AS A LIFELONG /aicg/ RESIDENT I CAN SAY WITH 99% CERTAINTY THAT THE BREED SAGA STARTING AT RESPONSE 256 IS IN FACT AI GENERATEDTHANK YOU FOR THE ATTENTION
>>572326807Denko if you read this. Unironically this, we need gookshit and sportsball back. Or at least just gookshit.
>>572326807Yes, we need more page 9s in the ‘ccg.
>>572326383They'll never address this either, is he their pet retard or something?
>>572326828read these>>572325774>>572325843
>>572326807>>572326848raped lolcows think they'll be less lolcowy now that one of their own is gone
>>572326807sportsball is back though.
>>572326593Not just a ban but a permaban? Wew fucking lad.A shame but unfortunately a self inflicted wound that was plenty preventable.
ARGUEbellum the BANNED
>>572326932Desu this feels like the warning shot to other 'cows. Act any worse and you're probably next.
>>572326828It wasn't QD banning him. It's just a meme because his ban was already decided beforehand, but right before that he showed up in the booth and commentated the games, even saying "this was fun, let's do it again next vgl" and QD had to "Haha, yeah..." to him with tears in his eyes, knowing full well there won't be next time.
Sucks because I liked his commentary and never got a problem with him. But can't vouch for him because he literally did it to himself, acted like a complete retard you know like people that something is wrong with them so they don't have self preservation.
GIVE US BIRD
*estrogen voice* hi nonny~
*caw* *caw* *caw*
MAKE BIRD JOIN THE CALL
>>572327092One of the things feedback agreed on universally is that commentary got better, and his commentary was good. Kinda sad, maybe they should let him still do that l but I understand now there's bad blood so it probably won't happen
My shit is not AI-generated, shame on you, Beebs. I'm going to sleep because you insulted me beyond belief. My only crime was using Grammarly for grammar checking. Just skip my baby as if it were some aborted dream. I don't want to waste your time.
>>572327254who's this whore?
>>572327314I KNOW AI WHEN I SEE ONE. I WILL STAND BY WHAT I MEAN
qrd on the stuff from ass besides the execution?pes 21 status?any teams in danger of dying?
>>572327314Clanker.
>>572327395*rapes you*
>>572327394>pes 21 status?next league pretty much locked in for patched 21>any teams in danger of dying?/4ccg/ got eliminated
>>572327395We know you have a censor fetish now aoba...
>>572327314I believe you, King, you've been doing this for leagues, so I trust your writing prowess.
Every VGL, I tell myself this will be the one I stick around for shitpost box. Every VGL, I remember that a majority of people aren't funny and a majority of ASS can't voice act.
>>572327453>21 staysvglco UNABLE to read the room
>>572327394>pes 21 statusEveryone (but Beebs and Cipher, what a coincidence) says it's shit and the experiment has failed, VGL27 on 18 or 19>any teams in danger of dying?Nothing new and nothing official. /esg/ is still the only confirmed death.
>>572327520Retard it’s almost guaranteed 19 but if 18 looks really good they’ll give it a shot
>>572327394They will try for 18 but will be more willing to push the 19 button (lie). Absolutely no other news, expect a ruleset after friendlies probably
ESL babble shitposts were never funny
I hope someone put in the Aizen song again
Was there any auties discussion?
>>572327639No
GOOOOD MOOOOORNING REAL GAME CHADSdoesn't it feel nice to have all top 4 spots?Gachoids could NEVERHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>572327879don't look at VGL25 lineup
>>572326103explain
I’m really going to miss “_____BELLUM THE _____” posting.
>>572328223Its ok anon. Kwabellum may be dead, but his spirit lives on. We just need to find a new manager to kwab post about
>>572328282yeah i wonder who we can k'wab post about
>>572328223Because a person not being around anymore means we can never mention them, brothers?
>>572328212wyelltheir caretaker is banned
>>572326103Bit late on that lad >>572326178
>>572326075its funny cause its cross league
>>572328557kekypow
bob, explain
Haha... yeah, I really am so surprised I don't get shit for the danteh with the header cast... haha yeah that would be so bad if people started associating that with me... haha yeah I really wouldn't want that but it really does surprised me.... haha yeah...
>>572328807Epic seven is THAT unpopular, 4ccg alone carries it
>>572328326I’ll sacrifice myself to be the new lolcow manager of a general nobody cares about. I can also use the username “Patty” so you can call me K’wabby Patty when I YIIK out.
>>572328976It's specifically Rabi (not Ravi).This proves that it's a secondary meme.
>>572325661>Final ASSWhat do you mean?
>>572329091There will be no more ASS
>>572329091ASS is being rebranded to TITS because of low viewership, like a Chinese restaurant renaming themselves whenever they go under.
>>572329210Are you for real?
>>57232933921 killed it all, it's ogre
>>572329298Based
>>572326932>>572326593What do you mean banned? Who will manage doro team for me?
Who even was posting those Blazblue sluts in the 'cord?
>>572329532I didn't see the name, but it was definitely Streak, he's a BlazBlue enjoyer.
>>572329635I regret making fun of /dbg/ now
>>572329517As in he's banned for LIFE from vglcord AND from managing or caretaking a team, or having ANYTHING to do with the VGL. Like his online life involvement with virtual divegrass is PERMANENTLY over.
why does this fit perfectly for 'bellum
>>572329708He can still commentate 4CC lmoa
Kara was doing commentary on the final btw
>>572329708>Like his online life involvement with virtual divegrass is PERMANENTLY over.VGL isn't the only form of virtual divegrass.VTLBELLUM THE PARASOCIAL
>>572329736executionpow!
>>572329796QD actually talked about it a bit, it was a last meal kind of situation.
>>572329828>last meal kind of situation.STOP EQUATING EVERYTHING TO FOOD YOU FAT ORANGE CAT
>>572329860I eat anonIt's what I do
>>572329828For his last meal, Rector requested and received a steak, fried chicken, cherry Kool-Aid, and pecan pie. As noted above, Rector left the pie on the side of the tray, telling the corrections officers who came to take him to the execution chamber that he was "saving it for later."
>>572327092Same.
this is the megadimes team btw.
>>572329860*rubs executed commentator shaped belly*
With ban of him and a lot of managers quitting, I expect a blood bad of dead teams. That kind of stinks.I just got fond of seeing Doro play, might be gone, Essex /alg/ gremlin might be gone and so on.Anyone got the full lest of of potentially dying teams?
>>572329828Could've used a few mmmmm treats, though. I rank it a B.
>>572330148>confirmed ded (EoS)/esg/>confirmed ded (manager/caretaker stepping down without a known successor)/utg/, /kfg/, /alg/, /nikg/>possibly ded (not EoS yet but possible)/snowg/>possibly ded (manager/caretaker stepping down but there can be a successor)/1999/>shaky (for whatever reason)/hdg/>/ink//ink/
>>572330148Corncerning
[BAD NEWS] /nikg/ is confirmed to die
>stop raiding that general I told you to raid
>>572330269Literally the second I posted it Garfield just confirmed that they're giving /nikg/ a grace period lol
>>572330269/hdg/ isn't going anywhere, nigger
>>572330148>Essex /alg/ gremlin might be gone/essex/ is alive and well!
[Sad News] Denko used to like /4ccg/. Now he hates all of us
>>572330285>[GREAT NEWS]
>>572330374What a coincidence, I hate Denko.
>>572330359Only because it got top 4 lmao, niggas were ready jump ship but will stay onboard just for clout now. niggas be wildin
>>572330269fuck....
>>572330269/wowg/ is admittely up in the air, looking into someone to step up for them but time will tell if that happens.
>>572330416the game got an IV infusion recently, they fixed a lot of the bad shit that was going on for 2 years now.
>>572330269Was PES21 worth it?
>>572330491The 1 patch every 6 months the swedes deploy huh? Eh, he'll be back to complaining about it in a week or two with the rest of the general
>>572330487>/wowg/ is admittely up in the airNo!
[bad news] denko is manager fc'ing our team
>>572330567shut up koitus
>>572330269I really hope /alg/ dies
>>572330487eh team is fucking mid as hell.
>>572330567Bro the manager doesn't care and hasn't cared in forever, don't the co complain constantly about their lack of roster updates and music expos too
>>572330148>PES 21 even though it was mentioned to suck before, was used which turned managers away>Execute managers who want to continue to manage>Disallow a manager for a new team like /4ccg/>No effort for enticing new managers>Eventually all teams will be autos with nonny left to live manage>Coincidentally Beebs is for 21Was this Beebs the VGL traitor’s nefarious plan to turn the VGL into VTL all along?
>>572330619Why?
>>572330642Why does he have to be such a contrarian about everything? Get a personality
>>572330642Nonono, we are unironically developing a 'bellum defense force
Sou literally ass hurting during winter kek
>>572330682i don't like /alg/
>sou's bleeding assKWAB
>>572330768I don't give a FUCK about dicksword drama. A team dying over something so petty is just sad.
>>572330567Not due to thread, but other issues. >long time group died due to actual tranny being given power by gm>lead to vast majority leaving>game without a usual group of bros becomes much less worthwhile to play.
>>572330853They're not dying.
I've never played /nikg/, but caretakers don't need to pass verification, I'll keep it alive until they can find someone long term just so I can shrink the chibi's heads.
>>572330768He was good on commentary and helped teams with AES, unironically need more people like him. Banning him but letting k'wab stay is fucking weird, ban him for a year or something and only from managing, we need all the AES help we can get imo.
>>572330938>but caretakers don't need to pass verificationthey do
>>572330938>caretakers don't need to pass verificationThis ain't no 4CC son
I hate fat bitches.
I love fat bitches.
>>572331036Gio...
>>572330938Caretakers go through verification too
>>572330962>>572330998https://implyingrigged.info/wiki//vg/_League_Rules#Management_and_Staff>A caretaker is allowed to become a manager for the team they are caretaking provided they go through the verification process and are not currently managing another team.Why would a caretaker seeking to become manager have to go through verification if they had already been required to pass it to become a caretaker?
>>572330853true...
>>572330885Why not just make another guild with the people who left due to the tranny? I guess a lot of guild progression/name/reputation will be gone but at least the community will survive.
>>572331068
>>572331102the caretaker verification exists but it quicker and easier than manager one
>>572331137Fat whore.
[LARP news] Grokpher turned on the radio filter again
>>572331068Good post
>Line 145
>>572331191
>>572331191But enough about yourself
>>572331068based
>>572331325now THIS is a fat bitch
>>572325937Qrd? Did he manage to do something worse than how he betrayed /esg/ last year?>>572331148What's the actual difference between manager and caretaker verification?
Thank you for your service, Reddit master.
>>572331457They just called him a retard over the nightly marking and throwing a fit over it.
>>572331457read 3 threads of a thread and you will be able to pass caretaker verification
>>572331410Fat in the right spots
>>572331457>Did he manage to do something worse than how he betrayed /esg/ last year?Took multiple pointlessly long timeouts, tried to cheat and was rude in the 'cord.
Nomo will say all this but he'll never say "read it" to any post here
>>572331528Fat bitches should be locked up, yes.
>>572331610kys
>>572331490>>572331539I don't know if that's worse than how he betrayed /esg/ but he shouldn't have been around to do that anyway. I guess the council still doesn't hate him enough, somehow
>>572331457>Qrd?Fucked up a nightly and instead of accepting the consequences like a normal person, he proceeded to spend ~20 minutes arguing it's not his fault and spam pinging another person and saying it's their fault which in end still resulted in him going through it with his deadline sliders. And the motherfucker had the gall to complain about other teams taking too much time the next day.
>>572331651Fine, I'll go kiss her.
>>572331809In hindsight, it makes it a lot funnier he pinged mabel over it only for mabel to win a 3rd star.
Fat is good
>>572331809And instead of getting rid of him we get rid of another aes guy / commentator instead. Big brain move like going to 21.
https://implyingrigged.info/wiki//nikg/Please update our wiki
>>572331997aesfags are not neededgarfield is officially okay with not every league being 24-25 level
L'av was taking a /sora/
Yeah I'm from /uma/ and I need to make sure everyone knows also @skully
>>572331997KWABellum isn't that important but banning him sooner than K'WABentale despite knowing full well what he's done is just wack
>>572331997'bellum is a different problem altogether but in terms of which needed to get summarily executed first it should've been L'av. Bellum could've been left with a chatban except on technical channels like aes and midcup.
>>572332228I wish I was raped by a horse.
>>572332268We lost tomato too right? so we might be short on aes people at some point. Idk I've come to accept k'wab is someone's retarded cousin and just has immunity from consequences at this point
How about no executions, because league will keep dying.Ban them on dickswords or whatever.
>>572332562*Smooch*
>>572332648Based
>>572332228Punch
>>572332440>I wish I was raped by M*chicoeww
>>572332889I want to have babies with Machico
>>572332889Well I don’t see you fucking doing it.
>>572331110I've tried that but most came for mythic which is still an archaic hard 20 man and sadly alot joined other guilds already and the ones who didn't are already kinda soured with this+the raid tier/dungeon season being pretty mid. Best course will be waiting till september-october(new raid/dungeon season is around late aug/early sept roughly) to make a decision so there is at least some time.
>>572332443Still feels like overselling the 'bellum here, even for aes you don't need loads and loads of people unless literally everyone dumps their shit on /aesco/ like the 4cc>Idk I've come to accept k'wab is someone's retarded cousin and just has immunity from consequences at this pointK'wab is an argieShakes is an argieHmmmmm
>>572333031>Shakes has spent the last few weeks in desperate tardwrangling mode and that's why less than 5 days before Summer aes deadline the fixed Spring exports still aren't out.Makes sense.
>>572332443>we might be short on aes peopleWe are so short on them that even 'brush got an aes role, and I have never seen him do anything in blender
/hgg2d/ will do our best in divegrass!
What will divegrass run out of faster? Riggers or assthethics people?
Viewers.
Which way do you prefer, /4ccg/~?
>>572333438Asuna...
>>572333438Abort me.
Laventale: This negga sounds raped innit
Beebs's gay accent is bleeding through reading this one
The elephant in the room was not addressed
>>572332648fat bitch
certified Tom/zzz/ai post
I'm beginning to think this is his unironic fetish
>>572333765but enough about you
Cipher isn't even being ironic anyway
We got a karabellum ban before a saba stream
Denko looks like THIS?
Yes, Denko is fat.
>>572334015that's beebs actually
>>572333280>being a rigger can get you into ASS/the council's secret chats>being an aes monkey can't
>>572334103nah, thats you
why is lav like this
:carleyes:
>>572334306
>>572330808True, the team is a bit stale with fuck all changes through the years
>>572334860Essex more than makes up for it.
>>572335095Had a big ol' /sora/?
>>572334860Is it? I honestly have never paid attention to their roster, I assumed even if the medals have been pretty much the same they'd have been cycling the rest through the newest flavour of the month botes.
>>572335154Yuge
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Mc-xc7BQU1g
>>572335095this is the greatest emote of all time
What can revive the VGL27 hype now that 21 raped almost every team, manager and hundreds of viewers?
>>572335623more 21 for more rape,obv
STREAK CHECK YOUR SMOKE ALARM
>>572335113They should implement Essexes from /essex/ to spice things up at least>>572335230Looking at the rosters on the wiki, no it's actually quite consistently the same
>>572335623/end/, /wuwa/ and /hg/ debuts
tell Skully I said goodnight <3
>>572336080and that I'll see him in FIVE days
>>572325661They have now joined the GOAT club but can they become GOAT of GOATs by going for 4?
>>572336080>>572336139go back to discord to erp there
>>572336051>/hg/raped general for raped /dg/ and /mg/ refugees
>>572336561It's a Halo general, I think you are confusing things.
>>572335623>almost every team, managerI mean if you think about it, everyone who doesn't win any given cup gets raped in one way or another
9 hours in and I've now noticed I was addressed. Thank you, I will be seeing you in 5 months.
box link?
>>572337579https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1M2TpwS4ebl05e41Y96LQIZP-bBEki7vY_xTip5lh6_0/edit?gid=80480242#gid=80480242
>>572336361No need, they do gay erp sessions in /uma/
You guys read this fanfic back in the day? I remember there being a doujin made of it.
>>572338634Dawg this is a canon chapter
>>572337990>Kill, rape and ban kwabentale from any team management. It has been proven that he is a massive lolcow and doesnt have the best interest of his team(s) in mind, such ass "I hate my thread", "here are the sliders to beat /myteam/" and rigging the team roster in bad faith (popular character as a defender because he doesnt like yuri and a character that he personally likes as a gold that the thread seemingly doesnt care about)Hmmmmmm nyot. council
>>572338634this is SAO webnovel canon sir, chapter 16.5
Fuck it's REAL???
never post this shit in the box again
>>572338656>>572338786>Officially written for the web novelI did not know that. I did see a doujin made of this chapter. The images were ok
Nomo will read this but leave us unread
Asuna gets more voice than 4ccg
I can't self insert if Denko is just going to say Kirito and not Nonny like normal...
>>572339180And we don't even get dicked!
I will take this time to post the original song that got spliced into all of the mnf gameshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jX6fqafv3_Q
>>572339301What do you mean, we're getting dicked by not being able to have a manager
>>572339301Sign up as a caretaker today
everyone is so fucking gay
And that's how it feels to manage on PES21 if you understand now VGLCO
>>572339578I enjoyed it.
>>572339578I got a boner
I thought Kara was really improving and his commentary was good and the discord was closed anyway. Felt like the time where he least deserved a ban.
no one has mentioned why he was banned in the first place
>>572339942Constant aggravation and aggression to admin and random viewers in the cord
Kara's banning will badly effect our commentary rotation.
>>572339715Glad you enjoyed it, nonny~>>572339859Oh dear, that's no good! Let's help you pump all 2 years worth you have stored up~
>>572340064Fatsuna
>>572340034We'll be alright.
>>572340017That was normal for him (though diminished by the 'cord closing), the question asked is what was the impetus for banning him. Not to mention passing over K'wab a second time
can I be banned nextI have been very naughty
Can I just be raped instead?
>>572339891>>572340147Like baldy said, it was from all the small infractions that he had throughout his time with the VGL and it his last chimpout on DMs was simply the final straw. His commentary doesn't change the fact that he's unable to not be confrontational with anyone he talks to. Frankly I think a full season chatban would've been sufficient but I guess 'co thinks otherwise.
>>572340173>>572340218Naughty nonnies get punished~
I've been waiting to jack off for 7 hours now.t. ASS member
>>572340125We had a lot of commentators in the group stage but not many on the final day. Are people intimidated by finals?
>>572340231Can't give bad actors an inch.
>>572340305I got sick in the final week and couldn't comm more...
>>572340337Yet L'av isn't banned.
>>572340305I was busy today lole
>>572340403I imagine he will fall into one by next VGL
>>572340504Two more weeks
>>572340403Lav's clever enough to never do that last straw.
Why is the current chapter talking about Sangen?
>>572340624because the last chapter was about Cipher
SAO was better.
>>572340571Especially now that he knows 'co is willing to stomp on a manager or two if they try their luck one too many times.
>>572340571>>572340791If you can break this rule and get away with it, the last straw must be something that's not even on the rules page
>>572340791On a caretaker
it's another troonsoup jerk off hour
Have the 'co mentioned a list of teams that are most likely to be executed? I heard they mentioned /ink/, was there anyone else?
>>572340818This just means either of two things>'co doesn't think L'av is problematic>Bellum just barked up the wrong tree and thus got the execution red carpet
>>572341163Bellum picks fights with everyone so nobody is willing to defend him. Lav never crosses the line so comes across as annoying autistic but harmless.
there's a difference between being an insufferable prick when your team loses and being an insufferable prick 24/7
>>572341120>killing /ink/That's why I am against POI tyranny, anyone should be able to sign up any team, if there is to many, then just have them play in qualies. I may not post on /ink/ or use the flair, but I am fine with the team, same goes for many other teams.
>>572341120Teams aren't dying. Nomo explicitly said that it will not be teams being punished
>>572341163Both those options can be true at the same time. But really, when you remember pic related is a rule the rest don't really matter. You can get away with practically anything, even betraying your own team's interests as long as you're good at circlejerking with the 'co, which K'wab presumably is.
>>572341779He isn't but he also isn't picking a fight with them nonstop either.
I have rigger fatigue.
>>572341847we know beebs
>>572341842So he's good enough at circlejerking is what you're saying
>>572341621But didn't he say that starting next VGL, verification for signups will get way harder so that low interest teams won't play? I still think it's retarded.
>>572341515Anyone should but only up to the point whether a general actually wants it or not and isn't just one person signing up his general for his own sake. Frankly this wouldn't have been an issue if it wasn't for the grr st/ink/ player planting seeds of doubt about the team's actual state.
i still think i should be banned for the crimes i have committedunspeakable crimes
/trick/ didnt enjoy commentary.
>>572342232Nah, I am more heretical, if person wants to manage and do aesthetics, they can pretty much do it on their own will, without general wanting or caring.
>>572342740>literally advocating for mercsI'll give you that it's certainly heretical, if a bit pedestrian
The bare minimum required to pass POI is so low as it is.
>>572343010It's not mercing if you don't take money or favors and manage on somebody else's behalf, the team you might not even care about. It's literally taking the initiative to do it yourself.
>>572343185Just do invitationals
>>572343185It's forcing a general who doesn't care about divegrass to compete for your own self-gratification. The literal definition of a Manager F.C. and mercing
>>572343185It definitely is mercing.
>>572343274True, I started to like those more.>>572343320>manager fcTrue, but I don't have a problem with that, as I said.>mercNot the definition of a "mercenary". Because nobody does it for the money here...
so now that it's finally overwhat did I think of VGL26 and its surrounding events?was it all worth it?
>>572343538wyell.... nyo
>>572343538I want my 2-3 months of prep and testing back.
>>572343538kwabellum is dead and gachaniggers are madyes
>>572343538It was good until the final day.
>>572343538i expected absolute abysmal dogshiti got below average shitoverall, that was not bad.
>>572343538Fun final day doesn’t make up for the rest
>>572343538yes
>>572343538Too many dead or maybe dead teams that I like.
I'm ready for the jacking off VGL
STOP KILLING GAMES, I mean, TEAMS
>>572344395*rubs seal belly*we needed this league to solve the problem of too many teams signing up
so was that shitpost box post correct?was it really cipher and denko who picked 21 to get revenge on the entitled managers and put them 6 ft under?and they tried to pin it on bob with falseflag posts saying /akg/ needs another star?
>>572344456Just run larger qualies. Those are were the real fun and stakes are.
>>572343538After the end of yesterday I think making the final boss should be considered an aspect of hosting/what makes a good host. Because I can tell you now that if my team ever won you would not be getting a custom swipe out of me but I would be all in for (helping) making the final boss
Final boss drags out so late for me that I often fall asleep just as it starts. If I even get to watch the finals, because Sunday....
Vods?
>>57234500412 hours
I don’t want to make it about /u/ but this result convinces me that every single one of the /u/ managers would do a better job on their own than as a council.
>>572326593>>572326620Did this just happen last night?
Final ASS VOD please
>>572330269>confirmed ded (manager/caretaker stepping down without a known successor)Not confirmed
>>572345096Yes, literally executed live.
>>572345315I missed it....
#FreeKara#BringBackGookshit
>>572345315What did he even do this cup to warrant killing him now?
>>572346519here>>572325774>>572325843>>572328557
did they execute /4ccg/
>>572346519Coughed too much
>>572345862>#FreeKaraSure, I want /nikg/ to play. DORO>#BringBackGookshitI don't even know what "gookshit" is.
>>572345004BEE
Will we get 3D fumika for /vg/?
I don't understand the namefag drama so it's probably my cue to stop visiting here. I will return to dump images of zzz women when my team plays again.
>>572347362flat bitch>>572347418fat bitch
>>572347418See you then, freakie
#justice4gookshit#justice4lapwing#justice4hmofa#justice4uber#justice4bellum
>>572347418thank you for your service
>>572347472many are saying this
>>57234526112 hours
i just want to say to all of the following teams:>/esg/>/hdg/>/omg/>/trick/>/nepgen/thank you for the entertaining matches under this dogshit pes.
fuuuuuuck my sleep schedule is ruined
>>572347887>/trick/>entertaining matches
>>572347362Mounds too big.
To start, just pick a few teams you like. During the VGL season, watch the live broadcasts; in the off-season, find a past season where your chosen teams performed well and binge-watch the matches. Even just thinking, "Ooh! They put the ball in the net! My team is winning—this feels great!" makes it incredibly fun. You don't need to analyze tactics right away; if you have questions about details like game mechanics or tournament rules, the old-timers hanging around here will give you the rundown. Once you start watching the league with that knowledge, you'll notice more things and find a whole new level of enjoyment. I recommend looking up classic matches featuring your favorite teams—for instance, if you're rooting for Limcom, check out Season X-2 (their debut season) or Season 23 (when they won the championship).
>>572348272>You don't need to analyze tactics right away; if you have questions about details like game mechanics or tournament rules, the old-timers hanging around here will give you the rundownwe need korean tryhard managers
>>572348272I almost thought this was slop at first
>>572347418Namefag drama has done nothing but tarnish the VGL for me. I just want to watch my favorite games play footie against one another
I'm just saying, the 'bellum should be banned ONLY for a year and then if he keeps up then yeah perfectly ban him forever
>>572348381Would they reach the level of Starcraft or LoL pros?I seriously wanna see how they'd play.
as a not-active corddweller I gotta say there were worse, more annoying people than kara
time for /trick/ to win the best aesthetics award
>>572347418I prefer Fufu but cya next time
Summer hype?
hehe im just an itty bitty no good mamager teehee >_< please dont call me good at anything!!
>>572348935managers for this feel?
>>572348987/wtg/ manager but unironically
>>572348987me
>>572344668based if true
>>572348935/wtg/
>>572325774>erm its le 4chan you have to le get thicker skinA lot of social rejects think being on 4chan is an excuse to post like a retard and treat people like shit, then they wonder why they get punished
VGL26 be likehttps://youtu.be/o9rY9WR4IcU
>>572347761Thanks cutie
>>572349342idgi
Ideas for /hgg2d/ hype?
>>572349419dog eating pumpkin
>>57234946348 team captains are going to Alice
We NEED Cipher involvement in the hype
>>572348516True. There needs to be less discord shit, less drama or even things like ASS and so on. Just focus on the games.
>>572349463>Rance walks in>"How do you do my fellow 2d hentai game protags? sure is nice for us to be hosting this cup">gets raped to death
>>572349247exactly. You said it all, anon
>>572349586New Thread demands cunnyGit Gud threatens to rape eliminated teams
>>572348516>>572349627Just watch games and don't interact with other parts surrounding the cup if you don't like them. Nobody is forcing you to.>but I want to read the thread tooThe fact is that this thread has been about namefags since its very beginning. It's just how it is when a thread is about discussing an event: you can't really decouple it from discussing people participating in such event.
>>572349958>you can't really decouple it from discussing people participating in such event.You absolutely can, it's just that 'farmers focus on discord drama instead of the games.
>>572349770please don’t. After more than 10 years doing this I still harbour delusions that it will be our VGL one day
>>572350223Still a few more years left on the /hanny/ decade.
>>572349958I've found my enjoyment of the league was inversely proportional to the amount of time spent here and on the discord
Was there any news on VGL invitationals after Summer that I missedOnly one I know is that real game one that got pushed back
>>572351219Mobabowl is coming back
>>572351301Mobabowl:Revive, released in western markets as Mobabowl Chibi Go.
>>572351219This year we will have Luigi Circuit and after VGL26, the summer invitationals will be RTTC5 and NTC5. There will be no LN4.
>summer right after vglwe get minimal downtime huh
>>572351856we get more downtime between summer and agl than vgl and summer
>>572347887Cheers, glad you had fun!
>>572347887I'm glad you had fun. It means the world to me.
>>572347887I'm glad you had fun. Please have my babies.
>>572347887That rabbit on /esg/ was the best, I love herand their wiki page is also really well done
huh did 4chan change trip encoding at some point?
>>572354632Where have you been the past year
>>572354632After the hack
>>572354690>>572354706Ah fair. Oh well. Was just curious.
Whole /sora/ thing just shows the difference between a normal team and a pet team.Astroturfed offsiter pet team /trick/ plays>trick is so soulful holy dimes!/sora/ plays>poop LOLand vglco likes things this way
>>572355489Assfuckers just played into the meme in case you haven't noticed
>>572355489I don’t have a dog in this fight but /sora/ came across as the most generic basic team with no identity or recognizable players. Like an AI generated gacha team.
when auties form
>>572355489Funny thing is, both of them are pet teams
>>572356195how is the massiva /sora/ even close to a pet team?
Does beebs have a personality outside of being a contrarian? 21 good btw. Any thread should be allowed in vgl btw, even if I made /feet/ and pretended it's a real general.
>>572355489Because /sora/ is /L'avFC/. It's also hated by BAfags because of their hostility and this thread is 75% BAfags.
>>572355489I nooticed that and I rooted for /sora/ just because of that. Still like /trick/ I tend to either just like a team or ignore it, if it's not interesting to me. I also like the underdogs that are disliked by vglco or whatever.Also, don't care about manager personalities, just the teams, so I'm talking about that only.
summer 2026 turns out to be the worst period ever in the history of divegrass>vgl26 on 21>everything goes wrong, bad guy champion>elite summer 2026 on 15>sou's last wild ride and it's already soured out by the retarded deadlines
>>572340231I think first time ban being perma is a bit harsh to be desu
>>572355827>like anI mean...
>>572357594shakes banned him once already
>>572357594It's not his last warning. He didn't learn the lesson. Deserved perma.
>>572357594It wasn't the first time that's the only part where I sort of agree with the punishment. This was his 2nd chance, still I'd rather the guy stay as he was very helpful in aes and commentary and as this is all a volunteer driven thing it's important to have guys like him
>/4ccg/ before 'bellum banKILL BAD APPLES SQUISH THIS ROACH DESTROY TURKEY INSHALLAH>/4ccg/ after 'bellum banWTF TOO HARSH WE NEED HIM TO SAVE VGLwhy
>>572358000>/4ccg/ is one personI'm glad he's goneFuck him
Without the bellum we won’t have any commentators
>>572358000Well if bellum was bad enough to go, K'wab should've been immediately executed with zero hesistation too. /ink/ guy too, but spare the general
>>572358098BEE
>>572358000VGL26 made people realize how much the 'co can't afford to lose aesfags and commentators. They think they can but it's not gonna remain unnoticed.
>>572356605>that are disliked by vglcoyou can't say you don't care about namefags only to care what a group of namefags think about a team.
>>572358428The namefags running the teams effectively don't matter.The namefags in charge of the whole thing are a different case.
Unless you watch ASS you won’t even know what the VGLco thinks.
>>572356543Baldyose would regain his smile if /feet/ came back.
>>572358428Well, I only interact with managers when they are taking polls or such. Riggers and other people commentate the matches, they make certain comments too. Also, they are sometimes aped by chat, so if chat dislikes the underdog, I root for it.
>>572357551>>sou's last wild rideWeedman is retiring?>>572358000Well, we need to people to keep this rigfest show going. It would be nice if all the riggers and managers stopped have meltdowns on discord. Maybe take things less serious overall, but that also applies to some fans as well
>>572358000I thought he mellowed out a lot ever since gookshit was closed but judging from the DMs apparently he didn't. Kinda deserved but I always thought his commentary was fine when he didn't hog an entire match day.
>>572358892weedman isn't retiring but it's the last cup on 15 for the unforeseen futureMAYBE he'll learn something from that
>>572358245Why is she so smug?
/sora/ is to /bag/ what /wuwa/ is to /gig/
>>572359041she knows she will be /4ccg/'s gold medal next vgl
"I always root for the underdogs" posters when it's time to cheer for /ink/ and /ksg/ instead of /bag/ and /umaJP/
Are managers really right about PES version problems? I'm just a viewer, so I don't know ins and outs of these games. PES21 seemed like a rather mellow one, not that much goals, usually, but it was not that bad either. PES15, from what I remember from spring, or was it winter, was fairly fun, just that /pw/ made it so that other team's couldn't do shit.
>>572359291I was indeed one guy cheering for /ink/ in the chat. At least for one match.Team seems fun, actually, but I have not played Splatoon, since it's not on PC, afaik.
>>572359318Managers are always right if they think the same way I do and always do if they don't.
>>572358262It's funny to me that everyone talks about how managers are replaceable but not how often they actually do get replaced>>572359291>"I always root for the underdogs" posters when it's time to cheer for /ink/ and /ksg/Should have just left it there desu
>>572359508They could be replaceable. Imagine this - all teams autos, no hyp videos, intros, no commentators, just Sou rigging it all. At the end of the day, it would work. But not under current rules.
>>572359675>no commentators Will happen very often without the bellum
>>572359739Bellum was 5 other commentators in disguise...
>>572359318It is the worst version I have engaged with and kick offs especially with this ruleset were just lame as fuck. Then you had streamers saying they wouldn't allow for -2 crap on kick off but did it anyway for pet teams etc. Honestly lobotomizing the defenders is the biggest culprit here. The maybe 5% chance a header ever works is a small gripe, no aura farming kicks will ever land in 21 either. Very little fouls and cards, you even saw it in the top 16 where multiple games would have gone differently if there was any sort of fouls called inside the enemy box. 21 has it's good things too like the better aesthetics but I don't think it's worth it, fuck whoever justified this version honestly.
this would have never happened with 20
this would have never happened with 14
>>57235931821 had a lot of matches where you can tell within 20-30 minutes who would win based on certain signs and as a manager nothing you could do to change it. Despite 15s issues, as a manager it felt that you could do stuff to turn things around.
>>572359318managers look at things from a gameplay perspective and you won't notice like 90% of it unless you know that certain PES versions act they way they do because it's inherent to that version. 15 and 21 are filled to the brim with bad AI behavior and RNG just fucking you over more than on other versions. But there's also the fact that both have very bad rulesets not fitting the quirks.It's just really not fun and nightmare-inducing from the perspective of the people who actually make the teams play.
>>572360043>Not fitting the quirksNTA, but genuinely curious then, what ruleset would you make that would fit the quirks?
>>572359896I guess it's true, for kickoffs. Defenders were shit, but that didn't often lead to goalfests.>>572360043>RNGWell, it can't all be up to managers. I guess it's a matter of degree how much should be up for RNG.
Keep in mind that managers and testers have seen an extra 50-100 matches
>CEO of GEO and Furher for /vg/ gkskino
>>572359318It was horrible. Passing and cursor bugs were atrocious, players either do the most stupid things or refuse to do anything when they should. And it just feels like the whole match is decided right away, with no way to change the result. Changes barely affect anything, but even if you get lucky and start to comeback, pes will keep giving freebies to the other teams because you simply shouldn't win. It's especially noticeable with kekoffs, when losing team scores and winning team casually gets one back. The same happens with crosses and corners, they will work for one team and one team only.
>>572360691Wait, is it in the code itself of PES21 to basically rubber band goals? Kind of like some racing games either speed up or slowdown AI to match player.
>>572360369That's the thing, 21 had more RNG elements in it than usual. It felt like there was barely anything you could do during most games if PES really wanted to fuck you over.
>>572359318Yes. You really, really look at the matches in a different way once you're responsible for making one of the team look at least fun to watch, but half of your tests become just an endless nightmare of elementary school levels of passing and demigod-rated players fumbling the simplest of plays.
>>572360537grim that /pg/ sent fuhrer it’s just a /pol/ player
>>572360369>but that didn't often lead to goalfests.There were some, but the reason there weren't more is the fact that attackers are really really dumb in 21 too sometimes. You'll see them slow down to a crawl for no reason sometime and sometimes even just dribble the ball straight to the enemy GK for free. If you pay attention you start to see this behavior a lot and it completely kills any attacking momentum you might have had. For a viewer it's maybe not so bad but my team tested hundreds of games and I personally was starting to go a bit crazy by the end.
>>572361204no? fuhrer is an original persona character, what does he have to do with /pol/?
>>572361204/pol/ isn’t in summer
So which generals have sent their reps and which are still deciding?
>>572359318If you are a good manager (or someone who tested a lot on 21), as other anons pointed out is really easy to know if PES is rigging it in your favor or not.The difference lies in whether a good manager knows how to handle PES when it’s working against him or not. People made fun of /hgg2d/ for his tactical timeouts, but apparently making the AI confused for lot of changes works to get another round and a chance to win.The other sore spot in 21 is that it tends to have more unavoidable kekoff abuse or spin2win goals, and it’s really hard to try to stop those.That aside, I think 21 is fun to watch and the problem of this VGL lies more in a broken ruleset and also in some mistakes made by managers with their exports and that anyone who says otherwise has probably been raped bigly by it.
>>572359318Managers always see the things they are currently on as the worst because of recency bias. Once we go back to 19 and people get momentum'd with the force of a thousand suns as well as players refusing to shoot and just trucking into the opposing keeper 5 times in a row 21 will look way more appealing all of a sudden
>>572361430Well, some player acting stupid shit is needed because it makes the cups more fun. Even if it is rage inducing to fans and managers. It just would not be that fun if it's all clean and professional like.
Beebs is our topguy... I will never call him a VTL SLAVE again
>>572360503>50-100That's low-ballng it. I have around 60-70 minimum for each team we've faced.
>>572354606It was fun doing CSS warcrimes to make everything work, I hope other teams can get some inspiration from it!
RIP /esg/Reminder that games as a service concept was invented to torment gamers.
>>572361847>RIProt in hell*
>>572361847I'm glad it died for being too generous rather than becoming enshittified to the point where no one cared, or because of a thread schizo shitting the general up. It's far from the worst outcome.
>>572362029wtf...
>>572361709Players being stupid occasionally is fine but when it's only your team doing all the stupid shit meanwhile enemy players move like literal superstars it gets infuriating fast.
>>572361847no one cared about them until they announced EOS, and now they're some kind of vgl darling everyone supposedly loved the whole time
>>572361067Uhhhh Mabel said testing was super consistent so maybe your just bad
>your just bad
>>572362154You don't need to love them, but I always feel bad about games shutting down. I try to not get involved with online only games because of that. Also, I guess it's just melancholy over passing time and things that are gone.
>>572362154heartless nigga
>>572362154>no one cared about them until they announced EOSI'm pretty sure people actively hated the team.
>>572362419I don't, if you sign up to play gacha you deserve the eventual EOS
>>572362571they hated k'wab
>>572362197Maybe it really was for them who knows but it didn't seem that way for a good deal of other managers and it certainly wasn't for me.
>>572362029>posted by scrongbongle
One would suspect that the /u/ guys figured something out which they shared with each other.
>>57235931821 is just a broken game, like 16. 15 has serious issues, but it at least works (it's one major bug has a fixed with fluid, although it has cost teams when they forgot about it).
>>572362571It was more about namefag drama and how they were the previous /sora/ what a coincidence, guess what was /sora/'s manager previous team? - a gacha like every other without anything to make them stand out. Pixie gave them a good aes export at least.But after all games dying is always a bad thing. I'd be sad even if /bag/ or /lcg/ died.
>super consistent>luckshits the last 3 games they played
>>572362993the only consistent teams in the league were /esg/ and /nepgen/
>>572362943>15 has serious issues, but it at least worksTell me you didn't manage on 15 without telling me you didn't manage on 15
we already have art of gunt having fucked fumika so the /jp/ drawfag doesn't have to do it again when /3/ beats /vg/ in knockouts
/cp77g/ fucking whenhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV7451mcw-E
>>572363184BEE
>>572363119/xivg/ were competitive in every single game
10 hours until /esg/ dies for good
>>572363334drawing once, going into extra time twice and losing once is not consistent
>>572362857did /xivg/, /nepgen/ and /hgg2d/ having the exact same setup not tip you off?
>9 pointer still hasn't won>number 1 seed still hasn't wonhow does this happen
>>572363630as long as /hdg/ makes knockouts they will execute all teams that are suspiciously good
>>572363630if you use up all your luck in the group stage you're going to have none left in the knockouts
>>572363630>>9 pointer still hasn't wonvgl 18 and 22 from the top of my head
>>572360537>Stalin and Hitler on the same team>both on defenseWe're gonna get some kino auties
>>572363184>can't even use edgerunners OP as their goalhorn because gigadimes already claimed itjokes aside the trailer looks pretty bad
>>572363387GO TO THE HELL
I feel sadder about the bellum than /esg/
So how did the NTC managers do in the end?
>>572363387i fucking wish /llsifg/ would die as well but this has never been about their games, they're a /jp/ expy
>>572364240you sound raped
>>572364216one of them just made 3rd place, i assume solo, because gio is ultra raped about 21 tictacs
>>572364240as long as this exists and the dog is a player, they have every right to stay. so forever because it's a normal single player game.
>>572364216>half of them retiredgrim I'm afraid
>>572364350>made 3rd placejust because /nepgen/ was retarded
It starts with "Fear" for a reason.
>>572364350the export was mine and i came up with the 4-3-3 formation while screwing with PES20idiot did most of the sliders and testing
>>5723641864CCbellum will compete in the REAL league now, you just have to trust the plan.
>vgl hype is going to be about cunny
>>572364665cipher won
>>572364216>/hdg/third place finish>/pg/top8>/gig/top16>/civ4xg/top16>/fng/HWC2>/zzz/3pointer group death>/hgg2d/admitted not to live manage>/1999/retired
>>572364624>i came up with the 4-3-3 formationThank you Romania for the ingenuity and innovative spirit that led us to the discovery of hitherto unknown technology known as "the 4-3-3 formation"
>>572364502who's dead and who's left
>>572364527Does it end with "hunger"?
>>572364216>/pg/Quarterfinal>/gig/Round of 16>/hgg2d/Won>/hdg/Third>/zzz/Third place in groups>/civ4xg/Round of 16>/fng/HWC round 2
>>572364216>/1999/VGL25 champion, retired, didn't play in VGL26>/civ4xg/Group merchant twice in a row, RO16 choke twice in a row>/fng/Group merchant twice in a row, this time it's an HWC choke (and very much an intentional throw)>/gig/qualie bye into RO16 (lost in benuldies)>/hdg/3rd place>/hgg2d/Assuming it's really the same person, duh, VGL26 champion>/pg/Quarterfinal, but after a very fraudulent run>/zzz/grouped and retired
>>572364740we originally thought 4-3-3 was bad but in the end it wasn't
>>572364742retired, retired, retired?, go to the hell, banned, alive, retired, alive, retired, alive, alive, retired
>>572364906it lost to 4-4-2 though
>>572364240There's no innate requirement for a /vg/ general to exist, /vg/ generals exist because they exist. It's a containment board for a reason
>>572365008I mean it got the team in a top 4 and scored a bunch of goals so I think it's decent
>>572365298fair
>>572364865>1/2 championsWould this be the most successful NTC batch?
>>572364635But I need /nikg/ to play to get my Dorofix...
>>572365725BEE
>>572365484not for the reasons you think but yes
>>572365930Elaborate
>>572365930what's the matter vagueboy
>>572366010>>572366071heh... let's just say something might happen tomorrow
>>572366286whore
>>572366010>>572366071the /1999/ manager retired, so id consider that kwabbing the fuck outthe /hgg2d/ guy from NTC is an AES guy basically. its still mabel behind the wheel.so both of the "champs" are not accurate.however if you take >/hdg/>/pg/>/gig/>/fng/>/civ4xg/they've all done really well in the past 2 VGLs. (gig just got raped in qualie prison)and /zzz/ is on a rocky road but they're not spooning which is good.i'd say 5 teams out of 8 making HWC2+ is a really good ratio
>>572366184wheres your frog image faggot
>>572366485>solo manager wins a league>retires afterward>"doesn't count"
>>572366347
>>572366485>win on your first run with impressive statshow is that kwabbing the fuck out and "not accurate"?
>>572364865>grouped and retiredNewbie one didn't retire though
>>572358663Managing near killed that mamt. knower
>>572366673>>572366689sorry but if you retire after winning a tournament, there's something seriously wrong. or you literally don't have any more time for the vgl in which case too bad, but i'd not measure "success" after immediate retirment after one league, regardless of placement.
if you don't win 5 times in a row, you're a fraud. simple as
>>572366876I can't believe VGL25 didn't have a winner
>>572367005if you dont manage in 2 consecutive vgls without spooning, you're a fraud. simple as.
Now that the dust has settled, what will be the roster changes for VGL27Q?
>>572367070it should've been that way tbdesu, we would've avoided this whole hyp shitshow
>>572367192out: 21 is fixed, the dollin: hmofa, lapwing
>>572366876sangen mentioned in the cord that they couldn't run PES21, who knows maybe that's the reason for the retirement
>>57236719221 is fixed will have to go sadly.he will no longer be relevant if were not on 21.i propose "Yeah?" or "Huh?" as our new player.
>>572367192out: 21 is Fixed, The Doll, the useless BEE that everybody hatesin: Yeah?, idk, idk
>>572367192Give the ESL a phone
>>572367281>SPITEFUL 'co SABOTAGED her for PETTY grudgesSHAMELESS
time to kill anime
>>572367205No, we would have kicked the can down the road until we had a different non-approved winner later on
>>57236719221 is fixed is out for obvious reasonsremove KWABccg or /pw/ brainrot, can't have both, they serve the same purposepage 9 may have to go, the thread is really livid after the closuredemote bee>>572367335>>572367361good ideas
>>572367281if they come back for vgl27, then i will retract my statement and they will be unfrauded and champions.until then, fraud.
>>572367192demote KWABiout with 21isfixed and the dollyeah? should be inpromote garfield
>>572367350>the useless BEE that everybody hatesI love BEE, though.
>>572367281source?
i'm not afraid to admit that i voted for BEE to be a medal
>>572367192>Qwe aren't going to qualies thoughalso there are 3 full months until poi for next league starts getting collected, give it time and some new thread memes will emerge
>>572367192change pekora to mint
>>572367737>we aren't going to qualies thoughYou don't know that, it's very much possible with a few more deaths and a bigger format (not 8)
So why is Sou the most raped commissioner between himself, Denko, and triangle?
>>572367561had to look it up
>>572367828>You don't know thatI do
Nothing about 18 looks likes it's worth it.
>>572367860sex with the glasses one
>>572367828>>572367885Give me your dream format where /4ccg/ somehow goes to qualiesHard mode: can't have more than 52 teams
>>572367878There was a complaint in the VGL25 feedback box about someone unable to run this PES.I'm really starting to believe this conspiracy
>>572367902>looks likessis...>>572367860link?
>>572367878can't believe sangen said this on the 3rd of july
>>572367902I wouldn't mind giving it a chance, but what I've heard of it doesn't inspire alot of confidence.
>>572367865Denko and TMA have long since accepted that managers still want to win, and had adjusted their decisionmaking based on this. VGL has moved forward in the best ways possible, while VTL has made dumbfuck decisions but still in pursuit of these new beliefs.Sou still clings to the idea that this is epic kickaround memeball we're all having fun you should submit a heckin funny formation and is perpetually raped by the fact that managers disagree. All of his decisions revolve around his desperation for the clock to go back.
>>572367902Every new PES version officially getting shelved means one step closer to forever17
>>572368175>what I've heard of ityou mean raped lolcows who can't get over 7 year old aesthetics drama?
>>572366347Why does this image have a Korean in it?
>>572367583BEE sends a good message, so it can be a medal.
There is at least one guy here who unironically jacked off to the vgl tattoo edits
>>572367994/drg/ joins, /kfg/ leaves simple
>>572368314Ironic
>>572368240>epic kickaround memeballBecause it still is, and you can "Still want to win" while still treating it like that they aren't mutually exclusive.
>>572368369What's your qualies lineup and number of teams for that?
>>572368240Wtf, Sou sounds more based than I thought.
>>572368369didn't account for /esg/ dying
>>572368121retardo, I...
Who are the good guys here?
>>572368396These always become mutually exclusive the very moment when there's an entire tournament format.The reward isn't financial but there's a goal to pursue and it involves winning with losing being punished.
>>572359318>Are managers really right about PES version problems?Managers will always complain about every PES version so that is something first and foremost to keep in mind.That being said, PES15 and PES21 are genuinely, objectively, the most broken versions of PES we have had to deal with in recent memory.Managers spend a fucking shitload more time doing tactics and watching matches (tests) compared to a viewer so when something is off with the gameplay compared to usual they will be able to tell. 15 and 21 are really obvious in their problems though once you start recognizing a few patterns.
>>572368359Was it (you)?
>>572367902Too bad because we're still going on it. Everytime version comes up they tell us the same little story of how it's probably going to be 19, but they are trying to see if 18 works before that. Read between the lines and we're playing 18 and that's that. Complain all you want like with 21 it doesn't matter
>>572368581Brazil and Brazil's rape victim
>>572368610no but it seems like VTLbros picked it up
>>572368753keky-fucking-pow
>>572367583BEE is what this general needs to be all about, so I'm always voting for BEE for gold.
>>572368705why do people even want 19 if it's allegedly cursed with the same problems as 21?
>>572368989>allegedlyShouldn't riggers, after how many years now, know about the PES version quirks fairly well?
>>572359739Not really, he was down to one match a day and in most of his matches this VGL he shared a booth
>>572361204He is literally in one of the Persona games you retard.
>>572368989because the 'co says we're staying on Fox no matter what and 19 is the lesser of the 4(5) evils
>>572368753post the full please
>>57236898921 is on another severity level imo
>>572363630>>572363868VGL14, VGL18, and VGL22 all had 9 pointer winners. Funnily enough, all 3 2nd placed teams were also 9 pointers. VGL14 was 3 seed /ssbg/ beating 1 seed /wtg/, VGL18 was 2 seed /akg/ beating 4 seed /feg/, VGL22 was 2 seed /gbfg/ beating 1 seed /gfg/.
>>572368753maybe VTLbros aren't so bad...
Raped PES17 lolcows hours
>>572368989It isn't, 17fags are just mindbroken by anything that isn't 17
>>572369482So these are the true bubble leagues
>>572369528>>572369536not falling for the snakes oil again
>>572369607Not really. 14 and 18 were fun because you could tell there were just these juggernauts going the full way. And those teams did not immediately fall off afterwards (including the auto).
>>572369250He encourages and trains other commentators and jumps in when nobody is around.
I had a dream that we went to 20.
I had a dream my manager kissed me.
>>572369706The snake oil is 18
>>572369914What player are you?
>>572369939*17
>>572364216I'd say that they are all doing really well, especially the ones running solo. Two different PES games, almost all of them got out of groups in both instances. Can't discourage the growth and efforts.
>>572369747>14 and 18 were fun because you could tell there were just these juggernauts going the full way.And 22 wasn't an example of that?
Most /hgg2d/ guys are VTL aligned so this was a VTL victory.
>>572369836Ok I'll start doing this then. I hate the mother fucker that much that I'll BEE and become the new commentary maestro
>>57237000617 is okay, i just don't think we need to be on 17 forever and ignore 19 because some fuckass thinks he's a masterclass tactician because he turned on longball and luckshits on corners
>>572370040Nah not really. At least not how my memory has it. Will die on the bubble hill though that /gbfg/ was a legitimately good team anyways.
>>572370046Thank you Master sama
>>572369983Monzo
This version of PES fucking sucks.
>>572368396>submit le funny 5-4-1 with medal fullbacks>get 2 points off of your abysmal group games and die>but it's okay because you had original tactics at least!>get 33% fewer votes on the next roster poll>"wtf how could /4ccg/ do this to me?"
Hopes for VGL27 commentary? The new guys that debut to come back more often? More large booths?
>>572370026I'm hoping the /gig/ guy got a big confidence boost from this league to continue improving.
>>572370276I hope they all do. Throwing labels out so early on isn't going to help matters.
>>572370272Bring kara back, bring most of the new people back minus the ultra ESL crowd who I won't name out of respect.
who's the dark horse of summer?
>>572370272Don’t let RHS commentate sober. He is far more kino when hammered.
>>572370616/b/ again, /s4s/
>>572370221You must have forgotten how /gbfg/ were doing that thing where they moved a CB up into a DMF position as a timeout, making them a LB-CB-RB, and they still kept on winning. The closest they came to going out was /bag/ absolutely frauding their way to PKs. Bad ruleset and all, but /gbfg/ absolutely crushed it. They fell off because they tried doing the same shit again and paid the price for it.
6letters must forever do commentary in his submarine
>>572370616I don't really care, too many faggotry teams that should be denied entry in the first place.>>572370898Seconding this
>>572370270yet people like /y, /xs/ and /s4s/'s antics and hate teams like /u/ who try hard (and also still manage to fuck up because it's not Fox or 16), hell /bant/ has struggled yet the fanbase endures. Sounds like a skill issue that you can't do something "entertaining" while being good.
21 is fixed
Every /u/ manager would do better as an individual than the council.
>>572358000As mentioned a few a threads ago, he did not seem that bad with the cord closed. Obviously we did not know about the dms. It's just surprising that he was the one executed without there being such major public transgression during this vgl while seemingly more serious ones were glossed over.
BANZAI
hexa status?
>>572371479The triangle cannot be stopped
>>572371807The fat bitch is losing!
I forgot to close this hehe thanks for covering me whoever didAs it is a summer VGL I have a con lined up immediately after this so expect Bobby boy to drop the Auties poll at some point./hgg2d/ send me a new featured team set of images and blurb if you can and also the same for your PotWI'll be back next week and I can help invitational lads start cooking.Thank you for another fun VGL :YuuriAyaya:
>>572371546Yeah unironically. This is the case for most teams though, too many cooks in the kitchen is a saying for a reason. 2-3 testers MAX who are all on the same page is ideal, trying to compromise too much and let too many people have a voice leads to just garbage.
>>572372107It also leads to less effort because everyone thinks someone else is covering it.
>>572372009Back it up to an external first nonny~we'll see it again in 3-4 years time.
>>572372279i will retire before that
>>572371447>well the 4cc-core viewers like you so you must do something well!Good job missing the point entirely
>>572368753oh, is the one who made the wallpaper for DBC6
>>572371579You didn't noticed because he was muted half the vgl lol
>>572372365nyo...
>>572371579He was already on the last chance saloon and no longer managing.
>You didn't noticed
>>572371479What the hell no reds? QD's pes is washed
>>572372693That must be the secret to never getting banned: always be a manager
>>572372731half of the people here are still sleep deprived from ASS
sigh... time to get raped
>>572372837Multiple reds would've happened if this was any other PES. Some inside the box too so results would look drastically different I bet
>>572372902It’s an open secret that managers and people with useful skills get more leeway.
Now that I've taken a few days off from 21, it's time to work on /myteam/'s export for 15
>>572373043K'wab comes with a maxed out "shift the blame" passive plus the valuable skill of "zero self awareness" so I can see why he wouldn't get axed
Players for this feel?
>>572374602*Rubs belly*
>>572368753>>572369340please...
>>572372458and your point is exactly?
>>572374828*sigh*https://files.catbox.moe/g48edg.png
>>572375196thank you
i hate this gorilla japanese keeper
Aoba add the six seven goal celebration
O HEXA
HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA
>>572376245I thought he was doing pretty good, japan really can't build up for shit and their really solid first half defense has been slipping every since second half started.
>>572376245Why?
>>572376741Onana>:(Japanese Onana:o
>>572376525Thought the same. He just can't cope with the amount of chances the defense is giving Brazil.
Summer hip
>>572377551Winter bust
>>572326593He is joining the VT League
>>572378516He will NOT be doing thist. knower
>>572378516He will be doing thist. knower
https://poal.me/wxh7wk
>able to discuss Brazil vs Japan with people despite having never watched Football before this World Cup because of memeballautism is my superpower
Greetings from Israel
>>572378516He may or may not do thist. knower
>meme banner lol Germany v Brazil remember thatYeah
>>572378516Who knowst. not-knower
>>572378937The messages were really fucking autistic and it makes sense why Denko would pull the trigger, but he had cleaned up his act a lot this league otherwise.I would say it was justified if Denko hadn't gone into the whole speech about "bad actors," because he did that and then didn't also ban K'wab.
>>572376514How would you pronounce: "(Hex-a]"?The only clarity I'm adding tight now is: HEX-IF-ELT
>>572379626The same way you pronounce hexadecimal and hexagon
>>572379369>cleaned up his actbecause he was muted half of the time lmao
>>572379068Reso you cheating whore, that's not your wife
>>572379068OGURI DOKO YAN
both of these teams seem really bad wtf. japan can't press at all
>>572379369Denko has admitted he does not mind k'wab.t. knowerAs long as he doesn't harass him via DMs or fuck with pet team, k'wab will continue to get away with stuff.
>>572379369He "cleaned up" because he had no outlet for his usual shit. During the short moments that general was open he was still as argumentative as ever.
>>572380097They were doing it pretty well in the first half, just complete blunder in the second, they're physically unable to outrun brazilian players and all they can rely on is high interceptions, problem is they can't get the ball that high.
>>572380168It's impressive how deep in hell the bar is, and doubly impressive that someone managed to repeatedly fail to clear it enough to get banned
>arguing about politics with Tri already
>>>/sp/155931123
>>572380282What are you talking about?
>>572380526heh... you will soon know
HEXASEXA
>>572380526VTL knowers know
>90+6 subs
>>572380168You can tell how eager they are to see /esg/ get swept under the rug, which is why it's a shame they didn't win the league
>>572378516he will be raped anyway if he does itt. knower
I like lav because during matches when something funny is happening you can just look at chat and everyone is posting emotes and then there is the one fag just being miserable and it's always him.
>>572380863I feel like that's gio
>>572380581>>572380726You can't bullshit me since I am in VTL.
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEF
>>572381078It's both. With kara gone the trifecta of coomplainers has been broken up.
HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXA HEXAANIME BTFO
>>572381146Kekypow!
Are Japan Group Stage merchants?
Apologize
>chant the team's general thinks is funny>reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee>keeper with a pixel of color that matches the outfield players>reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
>>572381497That's Netherlands.
blue lock bros...
Matches for this feel?
>>572382235/bag/ losing against /twg/ during VGL19.
>>572382235me when I thought /bag/ is getting their 2nd spoon only to be let down later on
every worldcup i go on twitter and get reminded that the average person is incredibly fucking racist they just dont show it on a daily basis
>>572382996HIROSHIMA NAGASAKI
>>572382235/4ccg/ - /hdg/
o 'brush fix your table layout
>>>/sp/155933658
>>572325661>https://implyingrigged.info/wiki/2026_4CC_Champions_League>https://implyingrigged.info/wiki//jp/_League_1>https://implyingrigged.info/wiki/Beta_Bowl_4why bother keep them in the op when they clearly aren't happening
>>572383685kekypow
>>572383827Add 4CPL next time
whom are >we rooting for now
>>572379369I don't see why people wanted K'wab banned from his actions this tournament.He's a sperg and lacks some social awareness and he had a funny public melty, but he's not needlessly antagonistic towards 90% of people and constantly getting into fights over the littlest and stupid things like Kara. He's just a very dumb and passionate autist but ultimately harmless, and most of his drama is related to PES itself whereas Kara just constantly has a personal issue with individual peopleKara did chill out publicly after gookshit closed and his team wasnt in the main tournament but those DMs are genuinely unhinged and he may as well have been wearing a mini-skirt and saying he asked for it.Hopefully he'll be allowed back in after a bit since I think permaban is way too harsh, but he'll need to do some self-reflection on himself before then.
/4ccg/ has always LOVED 'bellum
>>572384150>but he's not needlessly antagonistic towards 90% of people and constantly getting into fights over the littlest and stupid things like KaraHe does tbf they just don't last longer than like 10 minutes. Kara's would go for hours, days, and weeks
>>572384150>I don't see why people wanted K'wab banned from his actions this tournament.He should have been banned this time last year, everything after is just demonstrating that fact
L'av has dirt on the rest of vglco. What kind of dirt? well... do I really need to say it?
>>572384725Regardless it's a pretty stark difference.This is a competition, people get animated and heated in the moment sometimes, acting like a public fuckhead for 10 minutes during a match/after you lose is far different and more understandable than a dude who like you said would go on for hours, days, and weeks about just the most inane of shit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43Qulf8zLZoDoes /4ccg/ enjoy watching people getting fucked for free?
>>572384150It's for his actions in this tournament plus recent tournaments. The first person to get banned for actively working against their team also had a complete fucking meltdown when he broke even more rules this league, spam pinging somebody who wasn't even involved. Maybe VGLco didn't want to make it public, but if he's not also on his last chance, there's a serious fucking problem here.
>>572385137yes...
so...any ideas on what /vg/'s roster looks like this time around?
>>572384725>he only causes trouble SOME of the time, not all of the time so he's okayThis is /admin/ defending ChadderP tier
>>572385249>The first person to get banned for actively working against their team also had a complete fucking meltdown when he broke even more rules this league, spam pinging somebody who wasn't even involved.Is that really permaban worthy though? I feel like his public meltdown and the response to it was humiliation enough, and the rulebreak wasn't really done on purpose or out of malicious intent just like the /bag/ situation.His response to the entire thing was beyond retarded but from my perspective I was just laughing at it rather than seething and thinking grr we gotta get rid of this fuckin guy for good for this one.
>>572385607all i know is that the main keeper is CEO of GEO and Fuhrer is the backup
>>572385607Wait until Sunday.
You actually have to do something special to get banned from vgl completely. So far it’s Richard Hammond for IRL CP and the bellum
>>572335623Unironically /dqg/ signing up>inb4 just BEEDon’t have the time so can’t
How will Boris react to each /vg/ medal?
>>572385607/civ4xg/ - Somehow I'M the Bad Guy/trick/ - Buttah/hbr/ - Teheperinko/hsrg/ - Literally Me/xivg/ - Sexy Hag CatIt's too early, that's all the confirmations I remember
>>572386145You are forgetting the /mmg/ guy.
>>572385714Flagrantly breaking a major rule should have been permaban worthy, but that was last year and he got a slap on the wrist for it. This is just a flex on his part
>>572386213He liked /hdg/ in the test cup so he'll like whatever rep they send
>>572386306>personally annoyed QD and also was negligent to his generalYeah that guy also went out of his way to get banned
>>572386262/fng/ - Triple T/vn/ - HOLY FUCKING KINOI think I remember /smbg/ sending Shiddy but I might be making that one up
>>570506065
/esg/ was a caretaken team and Lav had no influence over tactics. I suspect the outcome would have been different if he was testing against /vn/ and advising his opponent
>>572386473not only that but he was also posting in the cytube chat lmao If he had just disappeared they would probably just go "yeah he probably had an emergency"
>>572386558He was a bigger douchebag than Kara desu.
>>572386516He was testing as /alg/ against /esg/ and said "the export vglco gave myteam is weak as fuck, you can just run these sliders to beat them @opposing manager"
>>572386656he was a passive aggressive niggerwhile kara was an active aggressive nigger
>>572386516You don't need to test against a team you manage, you can just throw. But his whole beef then was that the /esg/ auto wasn't good enough for his standards so he needed to make a point. Ironically, 'bellum didn't do any of that when he had his own beef with an auto his team was given
>thread spends half a year repoosting everything kara says and laughing at her melties>she gets banned and suddenly the biggest defense force in recent history appears protestingI'm beginning to think that /4ccg/ is just bunch of cute tsunderes
>>572385714It's not permaban worthy on its own at all, but it's after he should already be treading on thin ice. Denko creating the narrative that he's finally doing something about "bad actors" and then getting rid of one while completely brushing off discussion of the other is retarded.
EXILEDbellum the PUNISHED
>>572355489Considering some of the rumors about him manager FCing that team and his visceral reaction to some of the aspects of that general, I don't think lav minds at all no one cares about /sora/.
Mint Editor,,,,,where are more censored edits,,,,,,,
>>572386656I don't remember him warring all over the 'cord constantly
>>572387032On /trash/ccg
>>572387009qrd on said visceral reaction? first I hear of it.
>>572386857>/4ccg/ is one personhe can get fuckedhad it coming
o7nu>>572387148>>572387148>>572387148
>>572386656I don't know about that, he was a major buzzkill that just dragged the entire room down all the time though.Whereas Kara is like the person that sets the room temperature to boiling.
>>572387189He hates the fact that Yuri art is more popular and purpousely made the most popular character in the game by a mile a nonmedal
>>572387072>>572387287IIRC his ban was mostly over fucking over his own general and not answering questions regarding a signup than discord stuff. But he was always raped
>>572387335Many are saying this about Chowayo
>>572386857I think that a perma was a bit excessive and I feel bad for the general but he had it coming. I'll miss the Xbellum the Y posting though.
>>572387335yuri is proven to be anti dimes, he is right.
>>572387415It's strange that fucking over your own general can have differing levels of punishment but there you go
>>572387560Then he should go find another general to merc.
>>572387560a yuri gacha won the previous cup and the yesterday one was won by /u/ managerscurious!
>>572387335/myteam/ has never had the second main character on the team
>>572387897wow /u/ must be doing great in elite cups then, right
>>572387072I know he isn't confrontational but it's fucking constantly seeing him complaining everyone else's teams and anything fun. He's like the Randall of the VGL. I know someone involved with testing who doesn't even use the discord who has already taken notice over how much of a fagget he is. Combine with a general disregard for the rules and unwillingness to admit mistakes, the 'co is just buying time for him.
>>572388765>the 'co is just buying time for himhwat.the /mmg/ manager was executed ages go
>>572388765Anons are talking about the former /mmg/ manager, not lav
>>572388914>>572389029My bad i got lost in the reply chain
>>572367192We need Doro.
>>572367878This really makes me believe that zoer and sangen are just the same people. Both of these fuckers always claim hardware issues
