Let's Settle the PVP vs PVE argument Once and For All. Also recommend games in either genre that you enjoy!It's quite simple.>PVP PlayersPVP Players want to play in a system of full freedom, where their safety is up to them and the people they work together with. There's no restrictions to combat in the game, it's up to the player to determine how to achieve ingame goals, whether it's through raw brute force and numbers, or through shear cunning wit and strategy. To travel alone in such a game is to make yourself vulnerable and small. You must work with others or become exceptional, while knowing your limits against numbers. Players who embrace this style of play are usually bro-tier, but bants comes with the territory and if you can't hang, you will break. Only the strong survive here. Players who enjoy this style of mp want to face an enemy that is cunning and unpredictable. An outcome to any pvp engagement is unpredictable since other players can change their strategies at any moment, and so winning feels like a real victory. Tactics revolve around being able to react to threats at any time, from any direction, rather than dealing with known predictable bot threats.[1/2]
cont'd>PVE PlayersPVE players want to play in a system where they are hindered and choices about personal safety are decided for them through hard-coded rules and laws like no pvp or consentual pvp only (you must initiate pvp with someone before being able to damage each other), or where friendly fire is off. These players cannot handle the stress that they are vulnerable to consequences at all times. They want to skip any level of threat other than the controlled and calculated levels of threat from bots within the game. Bots in these games are often extremely low intelligence and easily exploitable threats that are predictable and cheesable. An outcome to any engagement in a PVE game is predictable and hardship or punishment for bad choices can be easily mitigated since there is no unpredictable threat. Tactics revolve around easily repeatable memorized "paths and actions" rather than learning to react to unpredictable threats.[2/2]
Personally, I prefer open PvP in a PvPvE environment, as I do think PVE is a positive experience still, and 90% of games we enjoy as gamers are PvE. Still, the most thrilling encounters in a game will always be PvP, and just the threat of PvP alone makes the game better from a PvE stance. Let's discuss.
I like PvPvE on paper, but not in practice. Usually developers (and fans) are shit slinging monkey niggers, this creates situations where the combat is about who knows the best cheese strat. I'll use Sea of Thieves as an example, if the devs and fans weren't gorilla brained faggots the PvP would be about ship to ship combat combined with tactical boarding. 'PvP'vE fans think it's good and healthy for the game for ship combat to be moot, because they can just fire themselves onto the enemy ship for free, recover if they miss for free, and turn all PvP interactions into shitty quake instead of a pirate game. The Pv'PvE' crowd thinks that they don't want PvP, but because the 'PvP'vE crowd and the developers are retarded monkey niggers they can't see the obvious disadvantage non-niggers have who are actually trying to engage with the ENTIRE game instead of just the PvP because they couldn't make it past gold in any FPS and need to feed their ego the false information that they're the god of PvP in video games. The average RUST teenager is more deranged than the average MMO addict or MOBA player and that's really saying something. The players who actively seek out PvP have less risk for more rewards than players who don't actively seek out PvP and that's cringe and terrible for anyone who doesn't play these games to chimp out.
>this is who's calling you a griefer in the open pvp gameshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVQF2jUTkDEWhy even play mp games if you are so bad at them? I hate carebears so much, bros. They really want a guaranteed "I win" experience in mp games against players at the expense of the game itself. It's all about them, not the game as a whole.
>>2720431PvE but I walk around with a PvP build because I know the players might as well be ganking AI
it is insane how delusional you areif you actually wanted interesting pvp gameplay you would play any of the countless games that offer itinstead what you do is engineer situations where you have 10:1 odds over peopleand pvp gameplay is the most predictable thing everyou are larping about pvp being some ultimate test of skill but the only pvp you do is play a rogue and wait for some solo guy to pull 2-3 mobs and then jump him while you have every single CD up, and if you somehow aren't winning still run awayand then wait ten minutes for your CDs to be back up and try again and again until you "win"and you fucking idolize some level 60 rogue camping level 15s and killing people on boatsyou got shoved into lockers in high school and now your only joy in life is trying to pick on people smaller than you in a video gameits pathetichttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfPBc4giAjM is the fucking pinnacle of your existence
>>2744592None of that is true, and WoW is gay. Rather than call you names and shitpost, I'd rather just hear what you have to say about what you like about PvE. Maybe you could throw in your favorite pve recommendation as well.I enjoy open pvp because there are no rules. My mistakes beget my death in-game. I have no one to blame, but myself when I die, and I don't even harbor any hard feelings towards the other players. I knew what I was getting into.
It's crazy to me that in pve servers in arc raiders, no one will shoot someone running amuck, they just stand by and watch, afraid to be sent to pvp servers.Life in PVE servers:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5xdGbPVHzo
>>2745431i'm shocked this random discord for a pvp game i just joined says the same thing that I saidpvpers only want to pvp when they have a massive advantage and run away from a fight in every other caseit is almost like I have years of experience on mmos seeing the exact thing play out over and over since 1998
Open world PvP can be fun if the power difference isnt big and death isnt too punishing, but I cant understand how even the winning side is having any fun in games the top players can one-shot newbies and some games even steal their items. I don't consider myself a carebear but that does sound like psycopath behavior. I don't mean the act of killing itself (other genres have killing too), but most MMOs have shit gameplay so do something so unfun for hours with the only goal of making others unhappy is really weird.
>>2720431>>2720436>this is what gank niggers spend all their time doing instead of actually playing video gamesno wonder all PvP games have to get shut down or converted to PvE to survive
>>2754414>top 5 games on steam are all pvpWhat? I only ever see a vocal minority of cry-baby entitled rats complaining about pvp on any game forum. Usually when devs capitulate these rats, the game dies. The number 1 game on steam is a 20 year old pvp franchise.None of you pro-pve people have offered any constructive input and have only put down pvp players in this thread. Guess you can't enjoy your game without daddy-dev holding your hand and protecting you from the other players who can handle playing in open pvp. Truly pathetic.Where's the anon that has the infographic showing how listening to pve carebears ruins games...
>>2754484The top PvP games usually short matches that are reset every time, I think what OP and others are talking about here are MMOs and survival games with persistent worlds where the strong get stronger with no way for new players to catch up
My heart is with PVP but I don't think totally unrestricted PVP is all that compelling. Especially as I'm older now with less free time, it's hard to see the random ganks and open world stomps as anything other than inconveniences. The added tension and occasional good fights are worth the cost, but a total FFA is mostly negative imo.The best system I experienced was an old dead chinese mmo called Age of Wushu. It was technically FFA. You could turn on pvp and attack anyone at anytime. But you accrued infamy and past a certain point, you were put into jail when you died. I think you could pay to get out early. If you got a shitton of infamy, your character was publicly executed which meant a long lasting debuff. The combined result was that you could mostly go about your business, but if you had and encountered enemies you could expect some trouble. The resulting gang wars had a natural timer thanks to the infamy system. But this also helped to foster organic grudges so that when it was time for the real pvp, which was a territory control type thing, you could really cut loose and kill eachother. Talking mad shit all the while. It was a good time. I wouldn't mind future mmos (supposing we ever get a new one worth a damn) experimenting with mechanics like these rather than just enabling a pvp switch and wiping their hands of it.
>>2754484>>top 5 games on steam are all pvpHrm let's see>CS2Fake numbers, driven by third worlders wanting items>Dota 2Fake numbers, driven by third worlders wanting items>PalworldPvE game>PUBGHad to add PvE modes to survive>Task Bar HeroPvE Idle RPG SlopNot looking good for PvPkeks LMAO
>>2750975>but most MMOs have shit gameplay so do something so unfun for hours with the only goal of making others unhappy is really weird.That's a lot of what it comes down to. Most of the people like OP are just asocial weirdos that feel entitled to be able to ruin other people's fun. It's important to note that's what it is specifically, as it's what leads their constant pushback to not just be levied against PvE players in the PvPvE ecosystem, but also other PvP players that welcome PvP being made actually fun and interesting.
>>2755288Unfortunately true. Obviously this isn't all PVP enthusiasts but many of them want to roleplay essentially as psychopath murderers who terrorize the innocent. That's the appeal. To be fair, there isn't really an ecosystem anymore for these guys. PVP tends to be consensual in modern games and the games that do have day-ruining potential like full loot or exp loss are only filled up with other psychopaths. It ends up being like 12 guys bitterly murdering each other over and over again and calling everyone else a pussy care bear. Like some kind of buddhist hell realm created from wrath.
>>2755455you forgot crying that every single game ever that tries pvp goes down this route and they either have such a small playerbase (and they have no mooks they can bully) so they whineor the game removes pvp because no one but psychos want it and they cry about thatno matter what happens they consistently whine that people aren't being chained up and forced to be their victims in torture simulators to appease them
>>2755903This post was made by a false flagger
Guys, why is it when I interact with pvp players, they are usually understanding and accepting of the outcome no matter what? Sometimes they say bants, most times they say GG. But when I interact with a carebear, it is 9/10 times "FUCK YOU CUNT I HOPE YOU GET CANCER, HOPE YOU LOSE YOUR JOB, HOPE YOUR FAMILY ALL GETS CANCER, REEEEEEEE". I can sense that people here, talking against pvp, harbor these thoughts by the syntax and posturing used in their word selection.To me, open pvp is more about forcing players into official/unofficial factions. When has running solo ever been advantageous to running with a group? I'm OP and I don't play shit like WoW or any other low-skill tab targetting games. I agree with your complaints that allowing some level 50 to seal club level 1 players is dumb.I play more stuff like DayZ, Rust, Sea of Thieves, Star Citizen, Planetside 2, and have noticed a massive almost inorganic rise in "PVP" vs "PVE" arguments in games where PVP is designed to be in the game from a foundational stance. These arguments demand pve only servers or "pvp-sliders". I've seen this in Arc Raiders, Star Citizen, and Dune: Awakening to name a few. In Star Citizen, for instance, PVE "carebear" players want access to every single possible piece of content in the game without any risk. The PVE players constantly complained about pvp activity in Stanton, the lawful system, which if you are murdering random players, you get crimestat to where player bounty hunters can now track you down wherever you are in Stanton and kill you for money, which then sends you to jail for x hours. That's all fine and dandy, but the star system Pyro was added, which is lawless with no crimestat, and high risk/high reward systems were added into the game to incentivize using critical thinking/problem solving skills to gain said rewards. PVE "carebear" players STILL complain about getting killed in the high risk/high reward areas in the lawless system saying that it needs to be changed.
>>2757915No one's buying it, man. I dunno who you're doing this performative nonsense for.
All of this talk reeks of peasants needing their lord to protect them so they can make number go up in relative peace without bandits/vagrants/enemy soldiers fucking their shit up. I'm starting to think PVP enjoyers are the modern descendants of kangs, lords, and nobility. The signs are all there.vid-rel is you pve peasants after you finally acquire what you consider pvp-worthy gear:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVLJ4NUQz6II've started PK'ing more because of you guys.
>>2767734In these games you often have to farm PvE stuff to be able to PvP, imo having to "farm" for your weapons is a very peasant behavior.
You're right that PvErs are even gayer than PvPrs though.
>>2767734>so they can make number go up in relative peace without bandits/vagrants/enemy soldiers fucking their shit upNo, people just want the actual games to be better, you delusional prick
>>2769965I play multiplayer games to play against people. Playing with people is fun too but, but playing against bots is the most mind-numbing empty boring experience. At some point, you just ascend as an online gamer and realize that only human opponents can offer you a truly unique and rewarding gameplay experience. Everything else is just defeating an algorithm that has a predetermined solution that works every time. You're afraid of getting killed by players because you know you suck and can't handle being schizo levels of hyper-vigilant without shitting your pants and having a panic attack while playing. Just admit it.
This thread has done well to actually show the difference between the two>PvE PlayersDo not actually exist. "PvE Players" are actually just the actual PvPvE players in the PvPvE game. They want to play all of it, engaging with the game as a whole, and by doing so, they become aware of any problems with how all the elements mesh together. Suggestions are always in regards how to fix that, or at the least, if the two elements aren't going to mesh well, then allow them to flourish independently>PvP PlayersPeople that do actually only choose to play the PvP side of a PvPvE game, and one has to ask, why? If PvP is the only true way to go, then why are they play a game that has PvE elements and attempts to try to fuse the two? It's because they suck ass at PvP. They can't handle playing games where everyone is actively engaged with it at every moment, and need to come to PvPvE, in vain hopes of getting some sort of advantage by not being "bogged down" by, you know, actually playing the whole game.This is what leads them to hate all attempts to improve the sandbox and the meshing of the elements, because any PvPvE sandbox that accomplishes this is one where they lose any sliver of an advantage they get. This is why they hate PvPvE players saying "well if the main section is all PvP, then let PvE have its section," because then people in the main section will be nigh-guaranteed to always be actively engaged with PvP and then the PvP-onlies start to lose all the time again. This is also why posts from PvP-onlies in this thread, up to the very first ones from OP, have been dripping with delusions of grandeur, constant derision, and endless projection, as every bit of them is steeped in that insecurity of sucking at actual PvP.
>>2771408>PVP players don't engage the PVE gameplayThis isn't the case. I'm pro-inclusion for open pvp, but pve gameplay serves as a way for players to engage the story of a game, as well as acquire unique gear and loot not sold in stores, or only available from players at premium price.The problem with PVE vs PVP in pvpve games arises because the developers often gate some of the unique loot/gear in designated open pvp areas, or in Star Citizen's case, in areas where pvp is not punished by in-game crimestat (gta stars). PVE players usually lose their shit when they knowingly enter these areas and pursue said gear/loot/trade missions, then get ass blasted when they (very rarely) run into hostile players and die and demand PVE only servers or similar. You see it in Arc Raiders as well, where PVE players are begging for PVE only servers. SC is unique too, because the loudest pve players are going into hotly contested pvp zones in 700 player servers, usually with global chat buzzing with activity about it, in non-combat ships, expecting to just be able to land and do business/load cargo like they aren't in the middle of a war zone.Arc Raiders is interesting, because PVE players will straight up just lay down and die without fighting back if you shoot them. This allegedly leads to peaceful servers where you no longer have to worry about everyone KOS'ing, but now have to worry about loot rats hiding in the shadows and stealing valuable components from high value npc kills. They do it, knowing no one will attack them.>they suck ass at PvP. They can't handle playing games where everyone is actively engaged with it at every moment, and need to come to PvPvEI think this is true for low skill games like WoW/ESO/any tab targetting auto-lock number-key-skill game. But it is 100% not true for FPS/TPS games (though I'd argue TPS requires less skill than FPS since you can peak corners without exposing yourself).Only pve players complain about pvp in pvpve games.
To add, regarding SC, the systems they do put in to protect PVE players in lawful systems often end up hurting them. For instance, if you are in an armistice zone, you can't fire any weapon. This means someone can board your ship, steal it, and do whatever they want with it and there's nothing you can do at all. If this happens to you, it's typically your own fault since you weren't being aware of your surroundings, and this usually only happens when you are not utilizing the fully enclosed hangars that prevent other players from being in there. Hilariously, if a player is antagonizing another player in monitored space (you get consequences for killing other players), and the victim player kills the antagonizing player by whatever creative means, the victim gets crimestat. It's a flawed system.>PVE players always suggest this solution:Only allow the owner of the ship to have guns>Everyone elseRemove armistice and let the situation sort itself out.It's a complex situation though, and has brewed this PVE vs PVP sentiment that I've seen leaking out everywhere, even into games that are designed from the ground up to be pvpve (arc radiers/dune)... PVE players have such a sense of entitlement to the content in games designed around open pvp that we are seeing devs cave in to their demands, often hurting pvp gameplay in the process (looking at Dune).>Extra Details:It should be noted in SC that there are unique PVE mission rewards that gate-keep combat oriented players (usually pvp players) from acquiring the gear unless they also invest the time doing the PVE related tasks, buying the PVE ships, etc. You never hear pro-PVP players complain about that shit though. The entire argument is very one-sided.
there are dozens and dozens of totally open pvp full loot games you can playwhy do you always complain about games that don't focus on pvp removing the pvp?its simpleyou want to be a wolf among sheepyou can't hack it in a real pvp game that is wolf vs wolf
>>2773604I play pvp games all the time: I enjoyed planetside 2 before it went on life-support, still enjoy arma 3 pvp servers, arma reforger conquest, love dayz, love rust. I really liked Arc Raiders until their weird ass match-making system took away the true random-ness of matches. I like SC a lot, and hope that it stays the way it is. You couldn't be more wrong about anything you've said.I enjoy PVE aspects as well as PVP. Open PVP in PVPVE to me is the ultimate thrill because you never know what's going to happen when you come across another player.I don't hate PVE. What I hate is entitled PVE cunts that try their hardest to make out the one or two times they got fucked by a player, into this giant non-existent inflated problem in the game overall, creating a possible threat of dev's actually listening to them.
