Infinite use TMs were the worst casualization change to date in this franchise. You can just teach every physical attacker you have rock slide with no penalty?(and countless other examples). It's completely unjustifiable.
>>59306965They got rid of infinite use TMs thoughbiet
>>59306965The phys/special split was the biggest casualization but zoomies don't want to talk about this fact.
>>59306965You don't understand what comprises difficulty in game design, especially in regards to pokemon. Pipe down shitter
You are all such colossal faggots holy fuck
>>59306975they are de facto infinite/reproducible still
>mfw i unironically agree with the bait threadI miss having to savor my TMs
>>59306965Buying two consoles and two games just to farm tms is nothing more than greed from suits. It is not a challenge, autist.
>>59306965>you used the first gym TM you got immediately? Sorry little Timmy, you can no longer play competitive games 200 hours later without that Stealth Rock! Let that be a lesson to savor your resources, retard!
>>59306965I always thought they should've had a shop that sells the TMs you find. Every time you find a new one, they suddenly get it, saying they're got new stock in or something similar
>>59307039yeah imagine games that actually had consequences for your choices
this isnt what ruined difficulty, the exp share did
>>59307046It would still make the shitty raging OP seethe anyway. What he wants is for us to buy two consoles and two games and rerun the games to farm tms like in the good old days of red and blue. which is retarded.
>>59306965no
>>59307065>What he wants is for us to buy two consoles and two games and rerun the games to farm tms like in the good old days of red and blueNo one said that.
>>59307080Fuck off retard
>>59306965>Infinite use TMs were the worst casualization change to date in this franchise.I agree. A better compromise would have been to make TMs single-use, but infinitely re-obtainable (Through some arbitrarily restrictive system.)Not crippling in its unworkability, but also not trivial. It's a good middle ground. High-cost in PokeDollars at the "We have every TM that you've found in the world previously." store would be a reasonable barrier I think.
>>59307085retard and poor
>>59307048There is no consequence, you moron. There is only ever one circumstance that can happen, because you can only EVER teach one Pokemon Stealth Rock. Even if you properly plan out everything, you will never be able to get another legitimate one if you want to use another Pokemon with it. This is a lose-lose scenario.
>>59307125Breeding move inheritance. Play the games.
>>59307125TM moves pass down via breeding I used to teach shadow ball to eevee to have the move on several mons
>>59306965better than having to farm fucking materials
>>59307089This. The issue was never so much that they became infinitely usable, but that the wasn't any equivelant downside to just spamming a move on every pokemon. The flip side of the 'you only ever get one TM so use it wisely' was just as bad since it either encouraged never using the ones that aren't HMs or to save-scum to see its effectiveness on a pokemon.
>>59307128>>59307137>teachESL, out.
casual looking in, I do agree that the idea of TMs being infinite means that there's no reason to really use the level-up moves as much, but only having 1 per playthrough really means that a lot of people, me included, really don't want to use them at all. the best solution realistically would be as what another anon said, have them be single-use, but have them appear in a store somewhere.
>>59307150What the fuck are you talking about schizo?
>>59307165This, have them be single use during the campaogn but have them available to buy them post-game or as rewards for battle facilities.
>>59307167Do you know how to read? I guess you just parrot shit you hear on here judging by randomly saying schizo, how fucking pathetic you are. I said TEACH you faggot.
>>59307089Should've all been reperchasable with BP at a battle tower or have certain shops carry them in the late and post game.
In pokemon emerald I used the battle frontier duplication glitch to have infinite tms.
>>59306965Scarlet Violet is even worse, the entire world is incredibly easy to run through to the point you have infinite EVERYTHING with no real exploration or difficulty or dungeons or backtracking or even little quests from NPCs like hey show me a Pokemon with a certain move. These are what made Pokemon Pokemon, it's just battles and catching now and I hate it. We need to return to 2d-esque stuff
>>59306965>Infinite use TMs were the worst casualizationNope TMs always should be infinite
>>59306980>20 years
>>59306965>>59307026you sound white and 12. I should have been in place gen 1. Duplicating TMs was mandatory for stadium/coliseum , if you didn't you were fucked!>>59307089>TMs single-use, but infinitely re-obtainableok that's fair
>>59307190>Should've all been reperchasable with BP at a battle tower or have certain shops carry them in the late and post game.BP is a bit cringe honestly. I get it, but it's only for some players.If I was in control of the Pokemon game design, or the economy aspect of it at least, I would>Bring back Gems (Toned down. Say, 1.3x or 1.4x damage instead of 1.5x)>Gems are purchasable for BP., but also can be found in random events / held by wild Pokemon / daily quests etc.>Each TM is purchasable for Gems of their associated type.I think that would satisfy a wider array of players. Battle Frontier lovers still get their juicy TM rewards, but so do people who prefer exploring or lazy Knock Off spam onto wild mons to do their grinding instead of having to think.I'd say around 8bp per Gem, 3 Gems per TM.
>>59307180Schizo LLMS post. Just FYI just being reactive doesn't make you fit in, retro for your devs/handlers.
>>59306980The only problem with the pre split games is that dark and ghost are the opposite of what they should be. >muh balance >>59307226>BP is cringe >suggests something even worse
>>59307246>suggests something even worseAh yes, BP plus other options would somehow be worse than BP being the sole exclusive bottleneck. Of course.
>>59307201They did this with the mons too, nothing is rare everything is just standing around waiting
>>59306965How do TMs work? Are they instructional DVDs?
>>59307293Pokemon can be digitized to be stored in PCs I always assumed TMs just modified the pokemon's data to teach it the move.
Thank god you aren't in charge of game design jfc
>>59307302campaignshitter...
>>59307310>talk about how lore works>capaignshitter outta nowhereShitty bot or jeet reply detected
>>59307302>>59307293>we wuz digimonz n shiet
>>59306965>it makes my babby game into a babby game so let’s punish PvP and battle facility players into having to mindlessly grind or do multiple playthroughs for multiple TMscampaignshitter moment
No you don't understand you shouldn't have to put any effort into minmaxxing your team, in fact you shouldn't even have to play the games at all. If you think otherwise you're a "campaignshitter".
>>59307354>>59307369like clockwork LMFAO
>>59307032no one told you to do that or ever intended you to, it came from the mind of deranged incel autists like you
>>59307373Yeah the jeet replies started and flooded the thread.
>>59306965Nah.It's fine. Scarlet and Violet system is actually perfect.
Biggest problem with TM's is that if you don't have a guide with all Pokemon movesets there is zero reason to use TM's until the end game or even the post game.
>>59307593>Scarlet and Violet system is actually perfect.the first time this sentence has ever been uttered
>>59306965>>59307048I understand where you guys are coming from, truly I do. I have to agree with the repeated use crowd though, because having items presented as CDs somehow be single-use is retarded.But I do like the idea of having to replace one with currency. We already have that with Move Tutors and shards/heart scales
I thought that Gen 5 at the very least did a good job balancing TMs out, obviously it was the first attempt at multiple uses, but it felt very intentional. You really don't have access to very many great TMs before the post game, the ones you can buy are typically utility moves more than powerful attacks, and of course they cost an assload. Playing the story you really don't amass that much money that fast with all the other stuff you'd want to buy. For much of the game you're stuck with pretty middling moves from Gym Leader TMs unless you're willing to use HMs to explore (again, takes a long time to get them all).
>>59307039how about limiting TMs/Eggmoves/Tutor/Special Surfing Pikachu events in competitive?
>>59307046>>59307089>>59307145That's literally how it works in Scarlet and Violet though. They're consumable but infinitely craftable. You have to harvest Pokémon materials from catching or killing wild Pokémon to craft them but you don't get the recipe until you obtain them for the first time either from story progress or picking them up on the ground. And any TM a Pokémon ever learned can be relearned for free if you delete it. Sword and Shield had it where the crap ones are infinite use and the good ones are single use but only obtained from raid battles. But the single use ones can be relearned for free.
>>59306965The simple solution for this is make them single use, then make infinite versions of them you can get in post game.
>>59308523Or better yet, just allow you to freely customize your team for PvP
>>59306965Can someone explain to me the problem with the physical/special split?
>>59307089>A better compromise would have been to make TMs single-use, but infinitely re-obtainable (Through some arbitrarily restrictive system.) They already did it you casuals
>big battle facility post game>have to train up your own Pokémon>literally every enemy has earthquake>you only get one like a miserable cuck>Timmy already used it on his Swampert or Charizard>he also used up dragon claw, giga drain, psychic, and sludge bomb>every Pokémon that isn't water type that conveniently naturally learns good moves of the type that isn't water with a convenient gap for the only good free endlessly reusable move
>>59306965There's no reason not to use STAB and switch against every Pokemon in a playthrough, thus making the debate irrelevant, and infinite TMs make the postgame and competitive actually bearable
>>59308536It wasn't so much that it making moves have different categories was a problem, it was really just that it facilitated everything having much higher power moves and better coverage with fewer downsides. Everything became more frail and more prone to spamming. Also, that makes matches shorter, and shorter matches means RNG has a bigger role in them, making them less fair.
>>59308761>shorter matches means RNG has a bigger role in themExact opposite of reality.
>>59309093That's not trueSay the crit rate was 10%Matches either last 10 turns or 100 turnsIn the first match 54% of the time one person gets a critIn the latter both players get multiple critsWhich one seems more consistent to you?Not the person you're responding t btw
>>59309093any given RNG event is more impactful in matches that have a shorter duration.
>>59307165>means that there's no reason to really use the level-up moves as muchDoesn’t even make sense. TMs more often than not work in tandem with level up movesets not replacing them. You’re likely getting your STAB and utility moves from it and coverage from TMs.
>>59309120>crits are the only rngYou can't play around anything in a 1 turn battle. In a longer game you have more chances to make up for any random event that happens, limiting how much it affects the outcome.
>>59306965>Oh you want more than one Stealth Rock TM? No, fuck you, kill yourself.Nah this shit was mad retarded. Infinite TMs have their issues too though, no doubt. I think SVs system is close the ideal. Single use means you can get powerful TMs and have it feel like a meaningful boost in power cause the choice of who to teach it matters, but you can get more of them later in the game where a strong move wouldn't be much of an advantage anymore. The grinding aspect isn't ideal though, I think being able to just buy then would be better.
>>59309134my thought process was in the fact that like, what's the point in using the weaker moves if you can just give every pokemon the super strong moves? why use the level-up moves if you can have base 80+ moves before the 4th gym that can put them on any pokemon that can learn em? ..but then again, that thought process is a bit weak, I just find it kinda nuts, y'know?
>>59306965The only problem they ever had was being one per save file.
>>59309136Thus limiting the effect of RNG
>>59306965TMs as a mechanic should've been like>You get a new TM and it appears in your bag (like "Thunder x1")>If you use a TM, rather than disappearing it would become "Thunder x0">In a post-game NPC you can pay like 50k money (so a run of the Elite Four) to recharge a TM from 0 to 1This would've kept the main story uses limited while not scaring you from ever using one (at least if you wanted to play competitively at the time).
>>59306965>Infinite use TMs were the best casualization change to date in this franchise. You can just teach every physical attacker you have rock slide with no penalty?(and countless other examples). It's completely great.FTFY
bump simply because sagefag is a faggot
The real issue buried in OPs post is too many pokemon can learn rock slide. It's so busted it should be type exclusive, only rock types can learn it
>>59311728The real issue buried in OP’s post is that he’s terrible at Pokemon games (i.e. a campaignshitter) resulting in him thinking permanent TMs has a tangible effect on the game’s difficulty
Fucking morons, the issue is that NPC Pokemon don't account for the player having infinite TMs until postgame facilities. If the players are going to have basically perfect coverage by the Pokemon League, than so should the Elite 4. Maybe the final Gym and villain team boss.
