I've said it before, but gamefreak nearly got HMs right in gen 7 (of all gens) but failed. Imagine if from the very beginning, gen 1 through modern gens, HMs stayed moves required to traverse the region but couldn't be forgotten normally, BUT, you could access them from pokemon stored in your PC. Suddenly, no more HM slaves, you'd have a reason to go catch a random pokemon and still be able to use it even if not on your team, and you'd get to catch as many "support" mons as you liked to have a unique one for every outside-of-battle move if you wanted, and it would still be identical for the retarded kids that ended up giving their starters 3/4 hm moves, they didn't care either way.Exact same splash on screen as when you used them before.was gonna post this in the other hm thread but had to wait out a retarded ban
>>59347919>you could access them from pokemon stored in your PCMechanically that makes sense, but at the time they was an attempt for immersion reasons that you could only rely on the 6 pokemon you were carrying with you.You could send pokeballs to the PC after catching, but the opposite was impossible.
>>59347919>I'm so bad at pokemon that I seethe over having to use HMsYou deserved your ban.
>>59347938actually I got banned for calling people illiterate in an unrelated thread
>>59347943Ironic.
>>59347950Irony requires there to be some subversion, it's not ironic if two unrelated events occur.
>>59347985It's ironic to be banned for calling people illiterate while showing off your illiteracy.
>>59347990Ok I'll bite, what could possibly have suggested illiteracy here?
>>59348076>you deserved your ban>um actually I was banned because of thisDo you need more help?
>>59348107>>59347990>while showing off your illiteracy.>>59348076>what could possibly have suggested illiteracy here?>>59348107>>um actually I was banned because of thisNiggerbrain disease
>>59348107Not him but is illiteracy against the rules or something? Moreover, are you not breaking the rules?
>>59348154>Not him but is illiteracy against the rules or something?Unfortunately not.>Moreover, are you not breaking the rules?I don't care + cry about it
>>59347919Game Freak got HMs right in Gen 1.
>>59347923meh I think that was an arbitrary rule and "you can only keep 6 fighters on you" would have been perfectly adequate>>59348180absolutely not. Nobody believes this.
>>59348393The point is that you travel with a team of 6.Why a Pokemon from the Box would suddenly jump in front of you to cut a tree or let you swim on it?Game Freak valued worldbuilding a bit more in those days.
>>59347919The problem with pokemon is that it is (or was) constantly fighting to be an rpg or a pokemonshowdown game. For one, having your party members needing to use specific moves, which are often times slightly detrimental for opportunity cost, to immerse yourself in a world and feel like your pokemon are more real is a great thing. But for the other, every moveslot and party member being free is such a huge boon for teambuilding. You'll find it hard to win battles against your friends if you have them (except for Waterfall and Surf) or do that well in the battle facility (except for those two again and maybe Fly). Hopefully with the release of champions, that freedom required for battle facilities will satisfy that urge so that the main games will be more immersive, and yes that means limiting your teambuilding in some fashion.
>>59347919I don't see the point in any HM compromise other than being able to delete them earlier/freely. They are either just as inconvenient as needing to give up move/party slots, or they are such an insignificant hurdle that it might as well not be there.
>>59348395that particular decision for worldbuilding is arbitrary. It could have been handled the way I described in the OP and it would have been internally consistent. Just a different choice, but one that would have made playing through the games more enjoyable.
>>59349110Why do you act like this? What is it about certain types of posts that sets you off?
>>59347919Game Freak got HMs right in Gens 2-5. They made you actually think about which pokemon to bring where and how to manage each mon's moveset. The only people who complain about how HMs were implemented before are actual retards who can't manage a team. Gen 7 utterly ruined HMs by removing them from the pokemon entirely meaning the actual team management gameplay that the series built itself on for 20 years at that point was dead and gone. If you don't like HMs, then you simply do not like Pokemon, as they are a core part of the team management experience. Fags like you are a fucking cancer, and the actual fans of these games hate people like you for bitching and moaning about easy team manegement gameplay and making Game Freak cave to your retarded vision of what you think a Pokemon game should be when you don't understand the actual game design at all. Only an unloved pissant whose mother drank during her pregnancy would think Gen 7's braindead implementation is good. It strips all of the depth out of the gameplay.
>>59349169>unironically claiming that gamefreak's vision is the best that pokemon can beYou're suffering from those nostalgia goggles retard
>>59349169>They made you actually think about which pokemon to bring where and how to manage each mon's moveset.Anon a bunch of people used HM slaves. It was more convenient to play with 5 mons + 1 HM slave than going full team but sacrificing moves.
>>59349173Always the same bullshit from you newgen faggots. It's not nostalgia goggles, it's good design that forces the player to engage with the game's mechanics. As soon as the move deleter was introduced, HMs immediately stopped being a problem. The inability to balance a team and spread HMs evenly is a sign of low intelligence.>>59349178HM slaves are objectively the wrong way to play the game. Surprise surprise, playing directly against the game's design is less fun, what a shocking revelation. The game is very obviously built around spreading your HMs evenly and when you do that the experience is seamless. The core gameplay of Pokemon is managing your team and it flew over the vast majority of the playerbase's heads because pokemon has had a rampant poser problem since day one. The people complaining about HMs do not play video games. Pokemon and maybe one Mario game at some random point in their life is the full experience they get with the medium. Pokemon, especially earlier on, shared a lot of DNA with old school RPGs that actually expected the player to make conscious choices about how to grow their party and manage their resources effectively and the hard truth is that most people just do not understand how to do that, especially an audience as utterly retarded as Pokemon's. Actual gameplay scares these waterheads which is why pokemon is the husk it is now. These same retards say that the HM moves are bad too, which is just completely incorrect within the context of the campaign. I once earned a silver print in Platinum's frontier because of Rock Smash's high chance for defense drops. These moves have utility, you just need a brain to actually capitalize on them and most pokefags don't.
>>59349386They got away with it in Gen 1 because most Pokemon's learnsets were very shallow anyway. Like, what do you lose out on by teaching your Scyther Cut? Eventually better moves and better movesets came out, and more mediocre HMs also came out, and suddenly you stopped getting a boner for Surf. At this point I don't think anyone would mind if your character simply walked on water.
>>59349386>HM slaves are objectively the wrong way to play the game.>>59349169>They made you actually think about which pokemon to bring where and how to manage each mon's moveset.So the game actually forces you to make the game less fun, huh? That's called "bad game design"next you'll spout some bullshit about how the game being conducive to a particular playstyle has nothing to do with game design even though 90% of game design is controlling the path of least resistance so that it lands on the intended path.
>>59349464You are utterly fucking retarded. The parts of my post you quoted completely contradict your entire post, you aren't making coherent sense. The game actively discourages the player from centralizing all their HMs on one mon, you're meant to spread them through your party which is where the team management gameplay shines. You don't understand game design at all, you're just mad that the actually good pokemon games don't just play themselves like the dogshit you grew up on. Fucking kill yourself.
>>59349648>The game actively discourages the player from centralizing all their HMs on one mon, How? Dumping them on one Pokemon is obviously the best strategy. There’s no reason to not do it.
>>59349427Not one HM move is mediocre. The worst one is Cut which is one of the first you receive in the games it appears in. Everything else plays with stat drops to tip the scales in your favor or has reasonable base power that can easily be boosted by taking advantage of STAB. Yeah, they don't always have use at the highest level of competitive play, but neither do moves like Water Pulse or Rollout. You have to consider the balance of the actual campaign when assessing an HM's usefulness and literally all of them get the job done.
>>59349651Holding back one of your 6 mons purely for field moves limits your team's variety and hampers that mon's usefulness, especially since I know that you aren't rotating the share to that mon. The whole point of the game is to train a team of pokemon. The game design naturally encourages the player to spread these moves evenly because if you actually want to use a 6th pokemon while dumping all your HMs on one mon, you're constantly swapping at the PC to get the right mon to progress instead of just doing what the game intended, spreading the HMs evenly, and following the natural progression without breaking pace to swap for the sake of getting past an individual obstacle. You're either constantly going back and forth to make the most of your 6 slots plus your HM slave, or you're just ignoring part of your party. The reason you think this is the obvious strategy is because you engage with these games on a surface level and have all the brainpower of a fucking cane toad. The whole game is built around balancing your team, swapping moves over the course of the game, and effective EXP share rotation to distribute evenly and actually manage your fucking team but by using an HM slave you're actively fighting that design. You are a fucking waste of genetic material, I can't believe I have to share my air with a waterhead like you.
>>59349676>Holding back one of your 6 mons purely for field moves limits your team's variety and hampers that mon's usefulness,Actually it means you don't have to worry about 83% of your party having annoying useless moves so you have complete creative freedom with them, and most people don't mind dumping HMs on a single mon and just boxing it when they want to take on a gym or whatever else. It's what the majority of players worldwide did because the game makes it trivial to basically "outsource" the moves to a mon you don't care about or use otherwise.
>>59349657Oh yes, the astounding power of a STAB Fly, so strong that it got Dig nerfed by proxy. Again, now that we have better moves available it's become tedious to tattoo an HM or two or four to your Pokemon's soul. Without the Move Deleter in every gen, HMs would have been completely unforgivable.
>>59349676>Holding back one of your 6 mons purely for field moves limits your team's varietyWhy would I need variety when I can dump exp into fewer Pokemon and make them stronger instead?
>>59348429>>59348180>>59347919Pokemon got HMs right in Gen1. Wireless access to PC hm slaves breaks the immersion.Gen1 also got it right in terms of number of HMs. The only issue in Gen1 was shit moves and shit movepools. You don't need 24moves to fight the Elite 4 , just Earthquake, Blizzard and Psychic.
>>59349903Wow famicom be straight up spittin' fax.
