Freeze-Dry

>>59385978
Movepool can make all the difference for Pokemon.

>>59385978
Freeze Dry, Dragon Dance, Tera patching a fire-shaped hole in its coverage, Loaded Dice giving it good Ice and Dragon physical attacks, gens 8/9 having less overwhelming Mega breakers

Why does fucking Dragon Dance make such a big difference? Has nobody ever heard of a physical wall before? It's still trivial to stop and easily checked by many mons with a choice scarf.

>>59387133
>Tera patching a fire-shaped hole in its coverage
Man, Ice types really wish they were any other type instead

>>59387465
Except ice is a top tier offensive type so not really. Every single good offensive type needs at least 1 coverage move at the absolute minimum.
The problem with ice is it's a type that's locked onto being glass canon to be good, then gamefreak designs mons which aren't glass canon archetype so they just end up as brittle shit.

>>59387477
Why the fuck does Game Freak create so many defensive-spec ice and rock types anyway?
I'm convinced they don't even realize how bad rock is defensively.

>>59387484
They're balancing for single player 99% of the time. And because single player is so easy a rock/ice type with high defenses can actually wall things.

>>59385978
They buffed the fuck out of its movepool back in gen 8. Dragon Dance, Icicle Spear AND Freeze Dry.
Kyurem used to be a mediocre PP staller that could apply offensive pressure. Now it's an unpredictable wallbreaker that can attack from either side, set up a sweep or PP stall. Its only real weakness is that its type sucks defensively and gives it a shaky matchup against various steel types even with Earth Power.

>>59385978

>>59387465
More like dragons without fire coverage are just sad.

>>59387484
For the rock types, it's much older than GF.
Even with no consideration for how the type chart would work electric types were probably gonna have speedsters, fire type explosive all out attackers and yes, the literally rock solide type was gonna get walls.

For the ice type, I don't see it, big fat chunky iceberg/ice elemental were expected but the "type fantasy" supports many other builds than slow and fat

>>59387484
Rocks are known to be solid and difficult to move.

>>59388309
So why do they have so many weaknesses? Why should they be weak to fighting types? If you try to punch or kick a rock you're going to have a hard fucking time breaking it.

>>59388312
Strong men can lift boulders.

>>59388318
Strong men can also lift bugs.

>>59388320
A bug the size of a man would have an extremely tough shell.

>>59385978
How the fuck was a box legendary ever in RU

>>59388321
Look you can do mental gymnastics all day, it won't make strength and weakness logic make sense.

>>59388321
anon are you retarded?
in gen 1 when they were deciding all the type weaknesses, all the bug types were arthropods and larvae.
if you punch a caterpillar or a butterfly, it will die instantly.
but you mention "extremely tough shells".
want to know the pokemon that had extremely tough shells? omanyte, kabuto, cloyster.
take a guess what they are all weak to.

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>gets banned to ubers
>dlc drops like a month later and it comes right back like nothing ever happened
Funny

>>59388344
>if you punch a caterpillar or a butterfly, it will die instantly.
Now what if that butterfly is a meter tall and weighs over 30 kilos?

>>59388351
then it still has a far softer body than cloyster's "extremely tough shell"

>>59388344
I think the idea is bugs scurry around fast and are small so they're hard land a hit on = fighting resistance.

>>59388361
And that's fucking stupid.
How about we make fighting weak to water too? After all, fish are able to swim around fast so they'd be really hard to land a hit on.
and why the weakness to poison? Are we supposed to believe poison is hard to land a hit on too? Why is poison weak to being hit by something digging under it, but not being punched from the front?
Fighting should not be strong against rock. In fact, rock should resist fighting. It's fucking stupid how rock resists mega punch and mega kick, but is weak to dynamic punch and hi jump kick. What a fucking joke.

>>59388371
I'm not saying it isn't stupid, just explaining gamefreak's reasoning.
They often use arbitrary japanese cliches to decide the type chart, so of course they have to base rock weakness on a martial artist breaking a pile of bricks or something.

>>59388325
Hey zygarde was UUBL !

>>59388328
Psychics do mental gymnastics

>>59388325
It was intentionally gimped in preparation for the more proper Kyurem-Black / Kyurem-White forms (ironically Kyurem-Black wasn't much better either)

>>59387465
Man, campaignshitters really wish they played the game

>>59388312
Watch Dragon Ball, the average episode is made for 90% of someone wrecking random boulders and mountains for no reason, the remaining 10% is them screaming and making monologues. Rocks are the recurring villains in that franchise.

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>>59387484
>I'm convinced they don't even realize how bad rock is defensively.
They do.

>>59388387
Now he's Chomp on steroids.

>>59389104
Then why do they act like they don't?

>>59388936
I do, that's why the only ice types that are even reasonable are insanely busted in a number of ways. It's not like water where the average Pokemon of that type is pretty solid, and also has great access to ice type moves making most actual ice types even worse. STAB is worse than SE (it's nice to have both), it's why you want Pokemon to have good coverage, but having a bad type is a liability. Volcarona wishes it wasn't the types it was, as another example, in spite of being solid for several generations (Stealth Rock is a bitch).

>>59385978
Its Based

>>59387484
Technically speaking defensive stats have higher value into super effective moves because of the multipliers.

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>>59388312
>If you try to punch or kick a rock you're going to have a hard fucking time breaking it.
This and ice have the same thing. Steel seems to be that Fighting types are seen as "heroic" so bending steel makes sense.

>>59389167
STAB is much better than SE, it's more consistent and for any decently strong attack both will result in a 2hko unboosted. The only case where you want to run specific SE moves are for meta calls and in the older gens where most mons don't have any strong options, in any other situation it is better for coverage to cover for resists to your STAB.

>>59387453
>Dracos you

>>59388286
>the "type fantasy" supports many other builds than slow and fat
They even had a shiva-esque diamond dust "elegant ice type" with articuno in gen 1 and then just... abandoned the concept for arctic animals at fatbergs until gen 7

>>59388320
And get stung??? Fire ants hurt bro

>>59388371
>Why is poison weak to being hit by something digging under it,
Idk anon where is nuclear waste stored?