>>59512411
>Horizons was a flop for doing the same anime formula OLM has been doing for 30 years now

>>59512411
>Horizons was a flop for doing the same anime formula OLM has been doing for 30 years now

>>59512411
this literally changes nothing they're not bringing ash back btw

>>59512411
Every anime is dropping the weekly format, even One Piece which was doing well in ratings adopted the seasonal format instead.

>>59512424
cope cope cope

I guess that was expected considering that Horizons currently has so many breaks that it basically became a biweekly show

Can someone explain to me the negatives of not being a weekly show?

>>59512411
Good. About damn time. Hopefully some other, better spinoffs

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>>59512411
This is something bad. Journeys was CoTD: the show, and it sucked dick. One of the problems with Horizons over the last three years has been that the OCs and the game characters have had to fight for the same spot. Now imagine having fewer episodes.

>>59512459
None, if you're not such an addict that you MUST CONSUME ASAP whatever slop is produced by this franchise.

>>59512432
Not an argument

>>59512411
I haven’t watched in years but isn’t this the biggest franchise in human history? Seems odd that they’d do this instead of pay for more monkeys to animate.

Hopefully this means animation quality skyrockets but I doubt this.

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why not make a faithful adaptation of the og red & green/blue game? lots of people who normally dont care about the anime would tune in

>>59512504
The anime is meant to be advertisement for children to grow up with the characters and fall in love with a franchise, using their parents' money or their future money as an adult. Spending time and money on adults who will shill out their wallets for even the most lazy slop is not on their mind.

>>59512502
The industry is dropping the weekly format in general. Weekly anime are a relic from the age of TV, which is pretty much over.

>>59512504
Didn't Origins get worse ratings than the BW anime in Japan?

>>59512459
Now they have to write a story instead of a commercial

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>>59512547
it did, it got lower ratings than the special BW episode where Cilan meets Brock

>>59512411
Probably for the better. But Pokemon games literally has zero plot and stakes where everyone eventually ends up holding hands singing kumbaya, and needs each episode dedicated to a Pokemon that the current generation of games is pushing. w
What kind of story would a seasonal pokemon anime entail?

>>59512432
Where's the cope? Are you actually going to claim that Juan Piss is a flop too?
This is an inevitable consequence of streaming taking over from linear TV. Streaming platforms don't have timeslots they need to fill with predictable programming like TV networks do. They want "batches" with smaller episode counts that aren't intimidating for new viewers. For better or worse, the weekly "forever anime" model is on its way out.

>>59512559
origins got trashed when they wasted a bunch of time on megaevolution bullshit and then have the zard megaevolve

>>59512559
Kanto....lost?

>>59512559
>Shaun the sheep has higher ranking than KANTOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Based

>>59512566
The same stories they tell now just with less filler

>Ashnime
Has a clear goal: Become a Pokemon Master and be the best like no one ever was
Beat up Team Rocket every episode
Catch some Pokemon, but Pikachu is still Kang
>Horizons
No clear goal
Nothing happens, it's just SoL with Liko with a Pokemon attached
Barely anyone catches anything, everyone who isn't the green cat and Pikachu with a hat doesn't matter

>>59512411
Evergreen animes are dead.

>>59512559
Charizardsisters, this can't be happening.... we jobbed to Shaun the Sheep like we usually job to pebbles! It's over, I'm joining the winning team, the Incinechads.

>>59512600
I think Horizons was meant to end after Spinel was defeated but delays to later games forced them to stretch it out

>>59512504
No one cares about Red and Blue, they care about Ash and Gary (until he was effectively written out and away)

A mature Pokemon show for mature viewers would never work

Still waiting on that Galar anime

>>59512600
>Has a clear goal: Become a Pokemon Master
Goal so clear it took all the way to LITERALLY the last episode 26 years later to answer what that even was.

>>59512633
He won in the Orange League and was the master of Alola

Could have ended back then but they gave him a big W, even in job seasons he had a clear goal

>>59512640
His goal season to region was to beath the league/big tournament. His series wide goal was a vague idea that had no answer for 26 years.

Horizons had a clear goal, get to Rakua, and then later once they got there get rid of Rakurium.

>>59512424
>even One Piece
One Piece was forced to do it because they are too caught up to the manga and the manga doesn't release weekly anymore. The other option would have been pumping out 30 filler episodes a year which would have tanked the ratings.

>>59512559
lmao, Shaun the sheep won

GOOD. I don't care if Horizons had some good moments I'm not watching 300 eps of anything unless it's really compelling

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>>59512411
Should have just done game adaptations like Origins, but 12 to 24 episodes each.

>>59512559
Shaun The GOAT

>>59512661
Toei were the masters of dragging a few panels of a chapter into the slowest 20 minutes of the week. The manga has nothing to do with Juan Piss going seasonal, it's 100% a concession to streaming services.

>>59512647
>Horizons had a clear goal, get to Rakua,
Nobody gave a dam about Rakua and Rakulium , while people actually wanted to see Ash complete his gym challenge and compete in Pokemon league of each region. .

>>59512515
Pretty much this, especially when it comes to streaming. It's more effiecent to release a 13-26 episode story every year than to rely on filler in case of a delay in the games' release.

>>59512633
Blame the pokemon company for wanting to keep him a forever child.
It's not want Shudo wanted.

>>59512785
>It's not want Shudo wanted.
Shudo's plans were also garbage. The nutjob also wanted to play sudoku because Lugia got "misgendered" in Pokemon 2000.

The truth is the anime was doomed from the start.

>>59512411
Good, hopefully seasonal causes the writers to have to come up with more focused stories with an endpoint in mind

>>59512416
Liko and Roy didn't have the nostalgia power of Ash.

>Will Ash come back as a protag
Never, they're sticking with it. He might return as a cameo just like what they did at the end of his "finale"/Journeys, but they'll probably do something like generations or the other one.

Also iirc, Horizons was mostly OC DONUT STEEL the show

>>59512875
They did not need nostalgia power, they were pretty dull characters.

Liko is just there to fish for pedos while Roy is a tertiary character no one cares about.

If they put the Alola gang in Horizons people will care about them.

>>59512640
They could have given him a win in Sinnoh/Kalos, but refused and gave him a week dub in
>Made up League (Orange Islands)
>1st match of a league that was JUST founded (Alola) with most contenders losing straight away
>James somehow got farther with his shitmon than most of Alola
>Only competent trainers were Hau, Kukui and Ash

>>59512879
>Alola gang
No one gives a shit about the fat kid or really anyone other than Lillie, Lana and Gladion, and you know why they like the former two

>>59512411
LMFAO, finally the Pokemon anime can die a slow death, it's been shit ever since the end of DP, hopefully it goes the way of the Yugioh anime and disappear forever.

>>59512628
We'll get one during Legends Galar

>>59512411
Frankly I'm surprised this didn't happen sooner.

>>59512729
Hopefully, each season will be a side story promoting a mythical Pokémon for the game of the year,

WiWa will have their own Mythical,
Then Legend Galar,
and so on.

It makes Pikachu the Movie obsolete as it's cheaper to have each standalone side story to complement the games as supplementary material to the story.

Paldea was THAT shit

>Famon is still seething and samefagging ^^^
lol

>>59512930
You already lost the narrative >>59512567 lol
Now suck it harder faggot

>>59512929
>WiWa
kill yourself

>>59512947
Horizons flopped THAT hard

>>59512904
A Legends Galar mini series with new GMax kaiju battles would be Kino

>>59512411
of course, it's fucking garbage
anyone but the life-unworthy (aka pedophiles) knows it is shit

>>59512974
Clearly not since >>59512567 lol

>>59512411
When has Centro ever being right? Also who fucking cares about the Pokémon anime at all

>>59512999
>who fucking cares about the Pokémon anime at all
Famon's salty ass cares lol

>>59512411
>Moot
Lmao who even believes in that bald faggot

>>59513038
>Troon obsesser
Holy based

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the worst thing about horizons is forcing legendary and shiny captures
they so badly want their cringe nu-audience to continue watching this garbage
they know the nu-audience is full of $0Y guzzling beta fags who start foaming at their mouths over the sight of a le shiny or le legendary!
oh and the show is far less entertaining without team rocket
instead they are replaced with these freaks
i've already said it before: a show's character designs attract the audience it deserves, and this one has attracted precisely the annoying and obnoxious kind

>>59513069
Trying way too hard

>>59512994
Pokemon Gen 9 Anime was THAT bad it killed the weekly series

I do think the decision was probably influenced by the WiWa delay.

>new gen games get delayed
>“oh shit but we made the ending for the anime already.”
>now forced to shit out about a year of doshit filler to buy time until the new games come out

I know this has never stopped the anime from continuing before, but it makes sense now. Trying to keep the anime in sync with the games seems like needless work if the timeline of releases is out of wack. Also like others said, there’s just no real benefit for making a year round anime any more.

>>59513212
>about a year of doshit filler
And breaks, there have been a lot of breaks for this season almost as bad as the pandemia breaks JN had without pandemia as an excuse

Horizons ending is going to be so rushed and shit lmfao

>>59512459
Not being a weekly show means not constantly being on the air. For 30 years you could almost always guarantee that there is a new pokemon episode.
A seasonal anime has to actually give a shit.

>>59513145
>it killed the weekly series
And how is that a bad thing?

>>59512424
>>59512661
Is Detective Conan the last one with the weekly format?

>>59512459
It means that they're not willing to commit as many constant resources to the anime anymore.
Seasonal formats mean that you can change or adjust things according to demand, while a constant 1 episode every week, all year long, assumes that interest will always be there. The latter takes more confidence.

>>59513313
Based Conan

>>59512411
Good to see more Jap studios wake up to the idea that weekly is a garbage schedule. It took them literal DECADES to understand why it was awful, but better late than never, I guess.

>>59512411
I don't give a shit, just give me an older Ash shot even if voiceless since we still don't know if Horizons takes place in its own universe

>>59512411
Is there a reason why everytime they mention the gen 10 anime their information contradicts the previous ones... you know, outside of just making shit up?

I remember them saying the anime was delayed because "it was having a troubling development" and then a couple months later we found out gen 10 wasn't coming out till 2027 so by literal definition that wasn't true unless you believe the anime caused a delay in the games.

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The kindervolk have spoken and they are tired of watching crummy pocket creatures.

>>59513389
Because Gen 10 is cursed after Palworld

>>59512879
I could say that the main adventure of Horizons was pretty OK-ish and the characters were fine in my perspective. But yeah, I certainly would say that the characters are going to be forgotten soon by the time Gen 10 anime comes.

Not to mention that most Liko fans who overexalt her to be a well-written character just say it because they want to bang her.

>>59512459
Degraded quality, not being weekly does not guarantee good quality like what happened with One Punch Man season 3 or Blue Lock. The ratings will drop because kids don't want to wait that long for a new anime episode or season.

Jap executives are retarded, why the fuck are they following the new trend of seasonal anime? Animes I like has lately started going the seasonal route, and now Pokemon took the bait? What gives?

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>>59512411
Wow we are finally getting what we were asking for like 20 years ago? A bit too late for that I think

>>59513509
>the new trend of seasonal anime
This was already the new normal BEFORE horizons. Pokemon is a decade behind this trend

>>59513501
I dropped it but the only cool character was Spinel

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>they half assed Terapagos in the game because of the anime
>the anime is so shit it doesn't do Terapagos any justice
So I have to wait for a legends game to redeem my turtle or what?

>>59513535
Retard

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>>59513558
Don't try to convince me. Even Japan agrees with me. Twrapagos got canned for no reason. 0 lore for best turtle

>>59513535
>So I have to wait for a legends game to redeem my turtle or what?
Now you get it. It's not an oversight - it's a feature.

>>59513525
They shouldn't have knelt down to the new trend then. Stupid retarded jap fools. What if China starts doing weekly animes as well to capitalize on that void?
China managed to dominate the gacha and the Jap cretins aren't willing to innovate, they're so behind the times it's actually embarrassing.

>>59513535
The game doesn't bend for the anime
The anime bends for the game.
How the idea came that the Pokemon themselves got fucked by the anime is beyond me but everything in the anime extends on the game. Blame the game for doing jackshit and blame Gamefreak for their garbage communication skills with their business partners.

>>59512411
Weekly has anime as a formula has been getting dropped a lot recently for very valid reasons, especially valuable for those adapting ongoing manga but seasonal allows for non cringe working conditions.

>>59512459
None unless your a pure quantity wanter, there isn't even a benefit to maintaining a slot anymore/being so easy for kids to find because of streaming.

Here's how they could do it properly:
>Every gen is 3-4 years
>Start out with a "main" anime adapting the new main series games
>50-ish episodes, 4 cours, about a years worth of runtime
>Take 1-2 cours of break and then release shorter 1-2 cour adaptions of the dlc/remake/Legends/spinoff games
>Repeat the cycle of breaks+shorter spinoffs until the new gen is released

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>Horizons is bad
counterpoint:

>>59513682
>50-ish episodes, 4 cours
>1-2 cours
>1-2 cour adaptations
Bruh I'm no grammar nazi but you made the same typo three times in a single post. Like what does "cour" even mean?

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>>59513703
Picrel

>>59513346
>>59513313
Also Precure and Aipri.
I remember the statistics that showed young Japanese preferred Precure to Pokémon

>>59513706
Retard

Liko was so fucking shit she killed pokemon's anime. It's insane how people still cope about how Horizon isn't boring dogshit.

Isn't it kinda sad that the same company that animated Berserk and Gunsmith Cats is stuck animating 22min commercials for children for eternity?

>>59512557
No they dont kek

>>59513069
this looks like the villains of a filler episode/arc of OG yu-gi-oh

>>59512875
You are still coping, you can't bring yourself to defend Pokemon 2023 but your ego can't acknowledge protagonist rotation to be a mistake so your entire argument is basically " Pokemon Horizons sucks but Pokemon should do same OC DONUT STEEL show again for Gen 10 anime because real anime rotate protagonist".

The important thing Pokemon needs to do right now is going back to its roots. No more new OC, no more World Tour. just Ash exploring a SINGLE region with some game characters while TRio does their thing. The reason MPM episodes were better written than JN, SM, Horizons & XY series because it went back to the root to bring back the actual charm of Pokemon anime.

Remember that MPM ended with Ash deciding Pokemon Masters is to be friend with every pokemon , Team Rocket is still active while Jessie & James still works for them. This is not a conclusion if the anime actually wanted to retire Ash for good. Its more like giving him a break to try something with new protagonist so they could just bring him back again.

>>59513892
why Ash though? Can't they just use game MC and characters?

>>59513907
Because he is already popular and has an exiting fanbase that will follow his story unlike a brand new protagonist with level 05 starter who magically become champion tier Offscreen and gets third legendary pokemon handed to them.

Also nobody cares about the male game protagonist.

i said this in another thread
they don't need to bring back ash to make people watch the anime again
they just need to make the characters look like boys and girls again instead of the gender troon slop to appease unovan brown/black loving mutts

>>59513892
Literally why? That format hasn't produced a single thing worthwhile since Takeshi Shudo left and died

>>59513574
>What if China starts doing weekly animes as well to capitalize on that void?
Nobody would care as 99.9% of them would still have the usual stilted cultivation/wuxia slop stories with zero appeal outside of China and all of them would still be voiced in one of the world's most unpleasant languages.

Are there people who unironically think bringing back Ash would improve the ratings?

Every new series gets lower ratings than the last (yes, even XY got lower ratings than BW despite BW being considered the worst series in the anime). The decrease has nothing to do with whether a series is popular or not, every anime is getting lower ratings because fewer people watch TV and TV ratings are now completely obsolete.

Everyone knew Horizons would get lower ratings than Journeys and the next series will have lower ratings than Horizons.

Like with any series, the first few episodes will have higher ratings, but then they'll go down in no time after the novelty of new protags or new pokémon wears off.

>>59514029
This, Ash has been irrelevant to the anime /franchise since the end of Diamond and Pearl series.

>>59512411
>centro
Roaring Moon! I choose you!

>>59513942
>>59514029
>>59514032
>That format hasn't produced a single thing worthwhile

If the format didn't produce anything worthwhile then TPC wouldn't have run this anime for 23 years. No other video game franschise run an anime as long as Pokemon did and it basically because Ash produce enough worthwhile profit for them keep producing the anime. Even Best Wishes series was a commercial and rating success.

Truth is, the problem was never Ash or TRio begin with.
It was all the New OC DONUT STEEL that the new writing staff keep trying to shove into the show. Best Wishes was ruined because of Trip., XY&Z was ruined because of Alain's glorification, JN was ruined due to the anime betting everything on Goh and Horizons sucked because its entirely the OC DONUT STEEL show.

Everytime the anime bet an entire series on a new OC like Trip, Alain, Goh, Liko & Roy; it backfired on them.
Yet all of you "genius" big idea is for the anime to shill another OC DONUT STEEL show and insist this time it would be any different.

>>59514029
>Are there people who unironically think bringing back Ash would improve the ratings?
Bringing Ash back would give people a reason to follow the new anime.
Why should I or anybody give a dam about some doormat trying to find some magical land to meet her 100 years old ancestor? Why would I give a dam about some random Island boy wanting to catch Rayquaza? At least I would like to see Ash catch new pokemon , getting new powerup and win well animated battle where his pokemon's attack has impact frame and makes super large craters.

>>59514125
>>59514142
I don't want to make up imaginary people and pretend to speak for them. For me, Ash is done and I prefer new character.

>>59512411
Transcarada and loli fags eternally BTFO
Catfags should admit that their cat is a flop that nobody wants to watch. Same for the zoophile protagonist

>>59514150
>I prefer new character.
You mean Gary Stu who will gets everything handed to them with no actual effort & character development because they are just special like Liko & Roy?

>>59514125
Granted, Ash's story has concluded; He already become world champion and the only way forward is for him to be a support to an original character within an original story. It's obvious at this point that OLM rather tell a story supplementary to the games than to adapt their stories.

>>59514125
Ash is dead and Retired

Ash Flopped and so did Liko and Roy, its time to just let the Animation specials like Generations be the only Anime for that Generation, no more weekly slop that doesn't amount to anything worthwhile

>>59514173

>Ash's story has concluded
Just because Ash won one World Championship ONCE does not mean his story concluded and instead it just open potential for whole new stories with Ash now that he no longer has those limitation that held back his progression therefore he is now free to do many thing. After all, the actual problem with Ash that he needed to move forward for further character development & stories but the anime won't let him progress. Finally when those limitation was lifted and he was free to do many thing he couldn't for new stories., writers decided to remove him for new protagonist so they could go back to doing the same thing they did with him but with a new protagonist. This ain't evolution, its just a worst form regression.


For example, if Pokemon 2023 needed a protagonist that meant to have rivalry with a champion ranked trainer like Nemona and catch a freaking Rayquaza then What Was The Point Of Replacing Ash With A Newbie Like Roy?

Before you again try to say Ash's story has concaded and he has nothing left to do, remember that ASH STILL HAVEN'T DEFEATED AND CATCH ANY CORE LEGENDARY POKEMON.

>>59512411
>they're making Pokemon a seasonal anime from now on
Holy BASED thank you pokemon horizons

>>59513791
they are making seasonal anime lately

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I hope Ash and Goh return and are extremely gay.

why not cancel it like yugioh? nobody's going to wach it btw

>>59513723
precure chenged it is timeslot, now airs at night, pokemon never could

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the pokemon anime is dead since they cancelled the movies lol even chikawa is more popular now

>>59513773
Pre-timeskip Liko's looks single-handedly carried Horizons. Now, however, there are no redeeming qualities left.

>>59514308
No one likes hags.

>>59514304
Owamon

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>>59514158
>Catfags should admit that their cat is a flop
Why admit something that isn't true? to better fit your incoherent narrative?

>>59512411
He is not coming back, deal with it.

>>59514304
>have terrible gen V ans gen VI movies
>try something else with gen VII and make them their own thing in an alternate timeline, ignoring the Alola cast
>stop making movies since gen VIII

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>>59514213
>seasonal kodomo anime about a 10yo indo learning how to catch a caterpie

>>59514342
Gen IV also has terrible movies btw (apart from Darkrai).

I feel like anime as a whole has declined since covid. Covid gave the anime industry a damage that it couldn't recover from. Though maybe the decline happened earlier. I don't think that late 10s anime was great. I love 00s anime and early 10s anime.

>>59514346
She could fit right into ZA. For some reason I think the human character design philosphy in ZA and Digimon Time Stranger is kinda similar.

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>>59514363
Both have great designs so you might be on to something.

>>59514203
>Ash Flopped
Flop protagonist doesn't carry an anime for 23 years.

>>59514265
>nobody's going to wach it
Unless Ash return and travels with a very cute girl that is not promoted as somebody else's love interest.

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>>59514367
Younger Mirei could have also been a ZA character.

>>59514369
It's not about flop/unflop, it's about quality. Quality rarely sells while plebshit makes the world spin.

>>59514304
Alain, Goh and Horizons series's cast has killed the Pokemon anime. Its all their fault!

>>59514142
Sounds like a (You) problem.

>>59514372
they are not doing it anymore after the serenatroons send death letters lol

>>59512411
more because palworld, After the Palworld incident, they can't keep up with the annual games and the anime either hahahaahah

Ash will return for five seconds in the very last episode, and won't get any lines. Thanks for watching gaijin.

>>59514381
And Ash, can't forget about suspect #1

>>59514379
Pokemon anime did had quality until Brock left and next executives started making dumb decision. What if --

-- BW series : No Trip, No Cameron, entire series is about Ash & N's clash of ideology over Pokemon.
-- XY series : Ash keeps his sassy & hotheaded personality from DP series, Serena is more emotionally mature & keep Ash from misbehaving, Brock tries to act like matchmaker for Amourshipping only to embarrass Serena, Alain loses the Kalos league to Ash's Mega Charizard Y.
-- SM series : Entire series is a training saga after Ash loses his first champion league on Kalos.
-- JN series : Ash travels with Gloria and Allister with the goal to defeat Leon.
-- Paldea : Ash gets tasked with finding & catch all the titan pokemon with the help of Juliana & Arven but get involve with Professor Taru's crazy plan to bring his dead wife Sada back using Terapagos and his time-machine.

I know all of this are better than the series we got to shove Trip, Alain, Goh , Liko and Roy.

>>59514357
Widescreen ruined it for me. 4:3 gives off so much sovl to me.

>>59514369
>carry
His dead body drifted slowly in the stream that is Pokémon's popularity.

>>59514369
The ratings dipped, they were stuck with Assh

>>59514418
Anon. Anon, anon, anon. It's a commercial to sell plastic crap to kids, not Citizen Kane. What's next, you want the Trix Bunny to go into the Cereal-Verse?

>>59514418
Fanfic thread is over here senpai >>59498208

Seasonal Pokemon has the chance to be higher quality than ever.
Like the PokeToons and other limited animation.

>>59514426
Rating dipped for every anime including Precure & Doraemon. However SM series was good enough to go toe to toe with Precure and even got better rating . It truly dipped when the anime introduce Goh and got worse with Liko & Roy.

idc horizons or hate it but making protagonist a girl and barely any battles is going to kill it and too many original characters.. like current arc, nips and pokemon fans only care game characters

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>>59514428
That is why it makes even lesser sense to replace Ash. Why take chance with a new protagonist when Ash does it better ? I bet Ash's Lokix would have sold more action figure than anything from Roy & Liko.

>>59514457
Hey, everyone thought Ronald McDonald would be around forever and now a Happy Meal box with a creepy face has his job.

Ash should have been let go 15 years ago, no one cared about him or his trash anime anymore

The shit started bad with journeys and dogshit oc, at leats sun moon friends were game characters

The Ashime went to complete shit after DP, also Ash is a fag

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the tranime peaked in sun/moon

>>59514207
>For example, if Pokemon 2023 needed a protagonist that meant to have rivalry with a champion ranked trainer like Nemona and catch a freaking Rayquaza then What Was The Point Of Replacing Ash With A Newbie Like Roy?

To have a protagonist a newcomer to the series to relate to; simple as that. It make it easier yo jump in without the baggage of past titles.

>>59514544
She doesn't look like that so nope

kodomo anime/anime toys are dying, nothig new. the japan birth rate is terrible too

>>59512411
This was expected, Horizons was very boring.

>>59512417
Horizons had an actual premise
>>59512424
Yes, but he thinks "One Piece" are magic words to defend Ash, not an actual show.
>>59512723
>people actually wanted to see Ash complete his gym challenge and compete in Pokemon league of each region
Except that when it aired you said you watched it for the pokemon.

>>59512411
Maybe that means we'll get episodes simulcast. We won't, but I can hope.

Pikachu carried Ash's dead corpse of a show for 15 years, people been stopped giving a shit about him

>>59514608
A random island boy with zero personality who magically become stronger than the entire weather trio of Hoenn by doing Hoge Hoge Hoge supposed to be relatable? To whom? Actual newcomers or escapist who are into isekai power fantasy?

Ash even during JN was more relatable to newcomer than Roy and Liko.

>>59514304
26 years of slop with the worst protagonist ever has consequences.

why are people blindly believing centro
he is not reputable

>>59514277
What Precure still airs at 8:30 in the morning on Sundays

I heard replacing Ash had something to do with his Japanese VA supposedly embezzling COVID funds?
She hasn’t had a decent role since Ash left

>>59515158
That and, iirc, she had a falling out with Pikachu's seiyuu and now they won't work with each other anymore.

>>59514207
>ASH STILL HAVEN'T DEFEATED AND CATCH ANY CORE LEGENDARY POKEMON.
Ash caught Nebby/Solgaleo.

>>59514304
The truth chikawa is the new hotness in japan, in japan even is dethroning hello kitty

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>>59512411
I think horizons up to rakua at least is watchable enough which is more than you can say for a majority of the og anime. One of the benefits of being made with an ending in mind from the beginning and not taking 20 years to get there. If we're going seasonal the quality of stories will probably go up. Poketoons are proof that Pokemon works better with shorter self contained stories.

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>>59515196
Not to mention Naganadel, all the Legendaries in his quick contacts, and that bratty Pheromosa—it's a shame they didn't make more of this idea.

I expected it, now that games will no longer be released annually.

>>59514304
Chiikawa is legitimately like 100 fucking times better than Pokemon has been in over a decade.

>>59514332
>years old poll when the games were the new flavor of the month

>>59515238
>Anon says while not having a poll of his own

Poketards blaming ash horizons etc.. lmao the franchise is already dying, just accept, Not everything will last forever, much less a franchise that is nothing but mediocrity.

>>59515237
Every Japanese franchise is better than Pokemon, nothing new

Pokemon anime always will be shit
Pokemon core concept is fucking trash , Pokemon battles are stupid, Pokemon repeating their names is cringe, they can’t talk make it even more boring,the humans lol the most bland characters from any media.

>>59514304
Chiikawa has Japanese humor like Yokai Watch, something Pokémon stopped doing to appeal to Westerners, which is why the anime lost popularity there.

>I HATE POKEMON!!!! THAT'S WHY I COME TO THE POKEMON BOARD TO SHIT ON IT!!!

Why? If you don't like it, just leave.

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>>59515440
Because I don't actually want to be happy, I want to loudly complain for loud complaining's sake. My idea of a perfect world is me on a stage, surrounded by billions of people who are all forced to sit there and listen to me complain complain complain complain complain forever.

Ash is dead

>>59515440
I love most pokémon designs and games that involves seeing them in their environment (like pokémon snap) and that's about it. The mainline game's campaigns are too easy, comp is lame because you keep seeing the same ugly but op mons, and the anime is crap.

Ash is dead but even his rotting corpse is more popular than Roy

>>59512586
>>59512604
>>59512668
>>59512674
I guess I understand why the Aardman Sirfetch'd show exists now

>>59512411
We need ash back its the only way to save this series.

>>59515514
>Bring back Ash
>He jobs to Roy because they want to shill him even more
Ngl it would be funny as hell

>>59512504
they tried, but it looked like shit and Red was a total faggot

>>59515516
That would be fucking based. Imagine the Ashfag meltdowns.

>>59515196
Never caught it,
>>59515234
Naganadel is an ultra beast, not an legendary.

>>59515220
>I think horizons up to rakua at least is watchable enough which is more than you can say for a majority of the og anime
Majority of Original series was actually fun and hype to watch compared to entire bore fest like Horizons.

>>59512432
>Cope
Or reality.
Pretty much the only shit airing weekly in Japan these days is stuff like Detective Conan, Doraemon and Sazae-san, the true cultural touchstones, and even then, Conan could very well be stopping soon since apparently the creator has the ending mapped out.
Fact of the matter is, weekly anime simply do not pull in the ratings or returns necessary to keep them going indefinitely.
It's why long-running Shonen, which previously would just air indefinitely alongside their manga like Naruto, Bleach or One Piece are nowadays just seasonal shows like JJK, My Hero or the like. When even One Piece is getting gutted down to a 2-cour you know things are in dire straits, same with Bleach which went seasonal for the TYBW arc despite the manga having ended in the previous decade, so there's no pacing justification for it not to be one straight shot all the way through.
Animators don't want the hassle or stress, the people funding these things want more profitability and fans want more flashy frames of animation for le hype moment and aura.
For better or worse, the natural conclusion for that is everything going seasonal or multiple cours over the course of the year. Pokemon was simply one of the last hold outs. And we could very well see that happen for other stuff, too.
I wouldn't be surprised if aforementioned stuff like Conan, Doraemon and Sazae-san actually pivoted into multiple cours like One Piece at some point.

>>59515572
>Conan could very well be stopping soon since apparently the creator has the ending mapped out.
What the fuck is this for real? i thought i wasn't going to live long enough to see it

>NOOO YOU CAN NOT CALL RAKUA ENJOYABLE
What a insecure joke of a faggot who can't handle different opinions.

Just cancel it, they cant bring back because because rica matsumoto,

>>59515739
Bring back ash*

>>59514160
never said that

>>59515546
Ashfag would have a meltdown even if ash wins, they always find a way.

>>59515773
Because Ashfags actually has standards, they want Ash to win fair way without any plot armor and controversy that makes his win unjustified like his battle with Volkner. This is why they are unsatisfied with Master Tournament because his win didn't feel like actual win.

Unlike Royfags who just okay with Roy getting everything handed to him without any actual effort .
>>59515576
>>59515572
Detective conan is one of the most popular manga of Shogakukan and NTV's one of highest rated show. Not to mention many merchandise company tied to it. Do you seriously think they will ever let it end?

Even if Gosho Aoyama finally ends the main story, they will find a way to keep it running. Ether keeping Shinichi stuck as a kid or turn Ran into a kid with him so there won't be any reason for him to revert back to his original age. Or they will go completely episodic with Shinchi and other detective solving mystery, even hiring other writers to handle it if Gosho Aoyama retires.

>>59513706
>Doesn't know what a cour is
First time talking about anime?

>>59512411
>Weekly episodes end, episodes somehow become even more low budget
I honestly think they give zero fucks about a main anime series anymore

>>59515753
That particular clearly underaged anon really should just get banned by mods for breaking the underage rules, him thinking the only options are Ash or a Mary Sue shows he's under 18.

all the tranime is a flop, it doeznt produce money anymore, all moneybudget they wasted for xy season and nips ignoried i,t they prefer watch yokai watch pfhhahaha

>>59513282
The story already had its ending. There's no ongoing plotline.
>>59513501
>Not to mention that most Liko fans who overexalt her to be a well-written character just say it because they want to bang her.
She and Horizons are a shakesperan masterpiece in the context of pokemon and having the ashnime as the main anime for 20+ years.
You're either being retarded on purpose or describing no one.
>>59513773
>Ashfags now blame Liko for inflation

>>59515945
Did they make any references to the new anime im the games or other official media? Not even some event some event distribution? Not even references in Pokemon Go, the TCG?
The Ash anime had at least Pokemon Yellow, the Greninja in the demo, other references, LGPE and some references in the tcg.
The interest in the manga seems to have also been lost for a long time.

>>59515997
>Not even some event some event distribution?
Friede's Charizard and the starters were distributed to SV
>Pokemon Go
Captain Pikachu and Liko's Floragato were in GO, plus there's the collab episode still coming.
Plus japan arcades had Liko and Roy
>The interest in the manga
Which manga? Because Pokespe is at the same as it ever was.

Just erase the anime off the face of the Earth, the franchise would still make shit loads of money without it, this has been the case even with Assh

>>59516006
How does "the anime" existing negatively affect you.

pokemon is not popular with chidren in japan not surprise

>>59516003
>Because Pokespe is at the same as it ever was.
I get the impression that pokespe used to be a lot more popular and that gamefreak card about it at least a little. There was somewhere a reference to it in the games.

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>>59516017
with garbage main games no wonder, mnecraft roblox the kings , turn based rpg is not popular with Kids anymore

>>59516023
Its as popular as it has ever been. I always had a dedicated fanbase that never grew because of its story.
It isn't even considered in the planning of the franchise which is why all the arcs post BW were rushed. Other than coincidences, I don't think it ever had references in the games.

>>59515997
>>59516003
There's also been several tcg promo cards featuring the characters and their aces.

>>59516026
pokopia won
za flop

>>59516017
Ash not in the show and current writing staff wants to make serious mature "Real" anime which is basically just their wish fulfillment fanfic about their new OC.

Kids prefer Doraemon which still has the same main characters who is way worst loser than any other protagonist and doesn't try to be "Real" anime.

>>59516047
Doraemon is real anime Famon. It isn't a pro-Ash spell.

all you have to do is take a look at what the japs think of the new anime
PS: they mostly hate it

>>59516319
they hate the current, they want the trio rocket back, most of them prefer trio rocket back than ash

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>>59512411
What should have been.

>>59516332
already said it before, it doesn't matter whether they bring back ash or not
stop obsessing over it and thinking every single shitliko critic is also someone who wants ash back
just make an actual good protagonist LIKE ash and dawn, give them a purpose (such as ash wanting to be a pokemon master and dawn wanting to be a top coordinator), bring back team rocket or make a gang just as fun as team rocket
i don't know why every single shitliko loser keeps assuming every single critic wants ash back

not ash= flop

…ash isn’t coming back. I wouldn’t mind ash coming back, but they moved on, I mean don’t you think it would have gotten old, watching ash for another 25 years, the shows were flopping once they got past alola, don’t act like horizons started it.

>>59515572
>Conan could very well be stopping soon since apparently the creator has the ending mapped out.
He was joking.

>>59516395
nah it started in bw

Ye, true

>>59516362
>an actual good protagonist LIKE ash
...is an oxymoron.

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>>59516334
>FRLG human designs instead of the proper gen I ones
>overrelying on Charizard
>skipping most of the content, all gyms except for the 1st and 8th one and the majority of the pokemon league
>commercial for X and Y with the Charizard mega evolution

nip comments about the leak

https://x.com/search?q=%E3%82%A2%E3%83%8B%E3%83%9D%E3%82%B1&src=recent_search_click&f=live

>>59515572
>Conan could very well be stopping soon since apparently the creator has the ending mapped out.
Just like Oda's eternal just five more years.

What do you want to see --
> Roy's Mega Lucario Z vs Nemona's Terastalized Pawmot
Or
> Ash's Mega Charizard Y vs Lance's Mega Dragonite.

>>59516047
>current writing staff wants to make serious mature "Real" anime
Is this not exactly what you spergs sucked off XY so much for doing?

Terastalization is mid, I’ll pass on the chandelier, no offense. And take the second option…

I knew its going to happen sooner than later, first were the movies now the main anime

>>59516415
I never called XY series to be a real anime and always considered to be one of the worst pokemon anime series, basically some guy's power fantasy about his self insert Alain.

i just want them to introduce new characters that don't look like tumblr ocs and follow the old design philosophy, and give them actual goals
they can even make something simple, like "i'm professor *insert_name*'s assistant and i'm on a quest to record every single pokemon!", but everytime he records data on new mons, the funny gang from the evil team manages to steal it for the rival professor or something
and keep the legendary/shiny autism contained to the games
it just ruins the vibe when the character you're expected to watch grow stronger and wiser over several years is handed something like that just because the viewer rating is low
it's genuinely pathetic
we all know that's exactly why ash's anime worked so well, there's no denying that

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>>59516408
truth

>>59516430
So basically your post

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>>59516430

lol nipz really hate the tranime

>>59516429
>we all know that's exactly why ash's anime worked so well
Makes no sense. Everything Ash ever had in 26 years was handed to him either for being the MC or to shut his fanbase up. They even created that stupid "legends tournament" just to give him one last participation trophy before they wrote him out.

>>59516429
>new characters that don't look like tumblr ocs and follow the old design philosophy
Never gonna happen, Turner fucked the franchise forever.

Also even Isekai stopped the basic black hair MC nowadays, it's either white or rainbow

Imagine this -
> Ash showed up and joined Amethio's group after protecting him from The Exceed's thugs. Zygarde decides to test Ash eventually by challenge him to a battle and let him catch it after he defeated him. Maybe the anime could reveal that Ash actually caught the Beartic from MPM and used its unusually strong Ice attack to defeat it after his other pokemon weaken it.
> Nemona joined Roy and Uroto in the raid battle against Black Rayquaza and she is one ultimately defeats black Rayquaza and catch it. Roy gets heartbroken but admits Nemona deserved it and decides to train even harder to defeat her instead of Uruto. In fact, Uruto's rivalry with Roy and he suddenly wanting Rayquaza made no sense when he had no connection to it.
> Liko never catches Terapagos, it never serve any purpose and the story would have been the same if Liko didn't caught Terapagos and just took care of it like how Ash took care of Nebby.
Therefore Mega Zygarde and Mega Rayquaza gets owned by actual champions rather than some rich kid & a Island boy.

>>59516441
Basically XYfags crying over Pokemon is not serious, mature & dark like Real anime.

>>59512424
Precure is still doing weekly episodes. The quality of their writing went to total fucking shit for few years, but the current series is pretty damn good.

>>59516454
>Makes no sense. Everything Ash ever had in 26 years was handed to him either for being the MC or to shut his fanbase up
You mean the sloppy lazy and poorly animated Tournament arc that pay no respect Ash's actual journey. Almost as if writers are salty that their precious Alain could not Blast Burn everybody on PWC so they purposefully made it bad.

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I always felt like the Pokemon anime should style itself after sports anime, since that's what Pokemon battles are at the end of the day, and follow similar trends and story arcs.
Instead, the show exists in this awkward middle ground where it's an adventure/fantasy sort of thing but also a comedy in the vein of Doraemon.
And Horizons has been the worst of it by far. It's like the worst of the both worlds where the characters and their goals aren't interesting enough to follow along but they're not amusing enough to just tune in for its own sake.

WHY would anyone want to watch the show? What is there to enjoy besides seeing Pokemon animated?

>>59516477
Precure makes it work because they change the protagonists, setting and premise every year, which is ironically what TrAshfags swear up and down is a franchise killer.

Imagine an anime series where Misty & Serena fight over Ash.

>>59516334
>Underanimated shit with no real writing besides barebone retelling of few scenes from the game.
>And Mega Charizurd.

This is objectively the worst Pokemon media ever created. Ashnime at it's worst had better animation and better writing than this garbage.
This is Chargeman Ken level of embarassing except it's not 70s anymore.

>>59516482
I think it's fun.

>>59516489
>Precure makes it work because they change the protagonists, setting and premise every year,
Completely and totally wrong.

Precure work because it follows the same freaking formula over & over again with new girls. Magical mascot shows up and choose cute girls to be magical girls, evil group shows up & turn object/person into monster for magical girls to fight in each episode, new girl join them as new magical girl and at the end they faces off the big bad in a epic final showdown.

Sailor Moon is the most popular magical girl anime and they never change protagonist. The face of the anime always been Usagi.

just let it die this franchise has not salvation, palworld anime is going to to dethron this slop easy

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>>59516502
At least PreCure at it's best try to mix-up the formula.
This year's series has PreCure joining villainous group for her own agenda, villains are implied to actually kinda having a point and there's mystery involving agency and the new evil general that just appeared.

But yeah, last few previous years had either cookie-cutter writing or main director literally just fucking off to write four different shows at the same time. Or whatever the fuck happened with Hirogaru Sky where they had like five different interesting things setup and instead just went with most boring and unlikeable general being a clunky twist villain and they did not even showed us what happened to him after girls blasted him with big-ass final attack, implying that he still may be around.

Hating Skear...err... Darkhead is a logical conclusion because he fucking sucks.

>>59516522
precure designs are good too, unlike pokemon troon character designs

>>59516502
No, it's entirely correct. Precure doesn't "feel" like a weekly forever anime because it's split up into less intimidating year-long chunks. You can miss a year and not be hopelessly behind. And by constantly swapping out to new teams of cures, there's an endless parade of new toys for them to sell.
Sailor Moon, on the other hand, isn't the juggernaut it was in the '90s anymore. It couldn't compete with either Precure's annual rotation or Madoka and all the other seasonal "mature" mahou shoujo anime it inspired. Crystal came and went like a fart in the wind. Japanese kids, the actual target audience, probably couldn't name a single character from Sailor Moon but they all know Arcana Shadow.

>>59516538
We have a lot of cute girls.
Toei tried to make a big deal out of male PreCures but the novelty was gone after like third attempt.

>>59512432
sahur

>>59516546
>male PreCures
That was a thing?

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>>59516538
pokegirlz cant compete likoflop even less lol

>>59516319
You really thought ashfagging was a western thing?
>>59516362
>hinking every single shitliko critic is also someone who wants ash back
Then make actual good criticism of the actual show like we've been telling you since 2023
>LIKE ash
Not beating the allegations
> give them a purpose
Thanks for the example

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>>59516549
Yes.

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>>59516549
Yeah, few times.
In Hugtto we had Henri as Cure Infini and "everybody can be PreCure!" at the end, including absolute unit that was dad of the main girl.
In Hirogaru Sky there was Tsubasa/Cure Wing but he looked like a cute girl so it's fine.
And then there was Dancing Star Pretty Cure The Stage, which was stage show with magical boys and dancing theme. It was... okay for it was?

Toei tried to make big deal of all three of these, but it just felt like lazy shock value thing. Except for the live stage show because they actually put some effort into it.

>>59516563
>Earings
That's a girl tho

>>59516563
Sex with bird boy.
It's not gay because he's from magical girl show.

>>59516408
Posted about it in the wrong thread:
>>59516554
>>59516557
>>59516560

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>>59516567
He's actually a bird.

>>59516415
Just like when they told us about Famon, ashfags seem to think their tribes matter to reasonable people. Apparently, there's some haters of the XY season(which is not "the ashnime" even though everything between the ashnime's beggining and horizons included is the same anime somehow) there.
>>59516429
> give them actual goals
Just because they didn't waste decades of your life on it doesn't mean they had no goals
>>59516477
Meitantei is only good for people who don't like precure.
Its not "total fucking shit" but neither is any recent season. And that's if we ignore the elephant in the room that is the fact we're in a pokemon board.

>>59516406
>FRLG human designs instead of the proper gen I ones
The FRLG designs were better.
>overrelying on Charizard
He's the most popular gen 1 first partner.
>skipping most of the content, all gyms except for the 1st and 8th one and the majority of the pokemon league
Time constraints, nobody has time for all that shit.
>commercial for X and Y with the Charizard mega evolution
Megas are cool.

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>>59516561
>Nono's dad as a magical girl.
>Still a 3 meters tall piece of mighty muscles working in supermarket.

>>59516406
>complain about charizard
>post official artwork with charizard
retard lol

>>59516575
Pokemon-related discussions are currently so dead that PreCure talk on /vp/ seems like an upgrade, desu.

>>59516580
>supermarket
That shit is hell, retail is hell

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>>59516577
>The FRLG designs were better
I disagree.
>>59516583
>complain about charizard
I complained that he used him too much and didn't use the rest of the team properly not that he chose Charizard.

Most of the mistakes Pokemon anime made after DP series were so obvious than anybody can saw them failing except for the executives that forced it. behold -

> Mistake 01 : Lets erase All Ash's character development and introduce an xenophobic newbie as the new "Paul" because that way new fans will rediscover the charm of the original series.
This plan only would have enraged all the Ash fans and won't do a thing to attract newer fans. Worst part is that the anime had multiple chance to revert Ash back to his DP competence & defeat Trip early in the show to have an actual experienced rival like N or Benga but the executive keep shoving Trip as the new "Paul".
> Mistake 02 : Lets make Ash lose to a noob with 5 pokemon on Unova League and it would be so funny and comedy.
What part of them made it believe this would be funny?
> Mistake 03 : People didn't like BW Ash so this time we will erase Ash's entire personality and turn him into a prince Charming with a love interest instead of just making him actually strong and compete enough to win the league.
Did they actually think people only care more about how Ash look over his actual personality & achievments?
> Mistake 04 : Lets cut of Serena's hair and put an ugly apron over her to call it character development.
What part of them make them think that ugly dress made her look better ? Have it occur to them that maybe people wanted Serena to have a better chemistry with Ash over Character development haircut?
>Mistake 05: Lets shove an Anime exclusive Greninja transformation for Ash nobody asked for instead of Mega Charizard that everybody wants him to get
If they gonna screw Ash's Charizard's shot of mega evolution for anime exclusive transformation than maybe they should have the decency to never let that Greninja lose to a Mega form of Charizard.

> Mistake 06 : Lets turn XY&Z into Alain's power fantasy and he will be so cool, serious & win almost all the time that everybody will forget about Ash and become his fan.
What kind of loser they has to be to believe that people ever love a self centered jerk over a beloved iconic protagonist just because he is cool & serious?
> Mistake 07: Lets completely change the anime's artstyle for a new ugly artstyle that doesn't even improve the animation.
Simply the visuals should have tell them how badly people will react.
> Mistake : 08 : Lets bet the entire Pokemon 2019 series on Ash's friendship with just one boy name Goh to attract all the Fujioshi's instead of following traditional formula of Ash's traveling with a girl & a smart guy.
Anybody and I say anybody would have seen how much it would have flopped.
> Mistake 09 : Lets makes an World Championship but Ash will only have rematch against people that he has already defeated so there is nothing new when he wins instead of having him battle many past rivals he failed to defeat.
Lets me guess, this was to protect Alain from losing to Ash.
> Mistake 10 : Refuse to let Ash use his reserve in his biggest tournament.
Another Protect Alain protocol to prevent Greninja from returning to Ash's team.
> Mistake 11 : Lets release a new movie with nothing interesting during a GLOBAL PANDEMIC and shut down all movie if it failed.
I mean, seriously, what did they even expecting ? A Blockbuster hit during lockdown ? That people will be so touched by Coco and his son-father relationship with a Monkey that they will ignore the pandemic to see the movie?

>>59516597
If you got to DP then every "mistake" is on you.

>liko was such a worthless bitch that she won't even get a second chance
kek

>>59516570
beautiful! bellisimo! so stunning and brave!
the "modern ugly transgender transsexual" audience will be most satisfied!

>>59516619
She was never getting past gen 9.
Experience more media.

>>59516638
Stay in your containment board.

>>59516640
Not him but I think that was a kinda popular theory in reddit and X, no idea about /padt/ because that shithole somehow got worse

>>59516674
Everyone assumed she was just for Gen 9. She was presented as the girl with the misterious pendant. As soon as everything related to it was solved, she'd be gone(Obviously the WiWa delay wasn't on the table yet). Not to mention her starter was literally from Paldea, and not a more "neutral" mon like Pikachu.
>that shithole somehow got worse
Compared to when? It became usable now.

>>59516661
stop crying behind my back like a broken bitch

>>59516684
What is this even replying to?

A /padt/fag doing damage control, what a fucking surprise...not

>>59516691
> It basically no different than Pokemon following the same formula with Ash from OS to XY&Z series.
Kek, you REALLY didn't watch anything that isn't the ashnime.

>>59516545
>>59516522
>Precure doesn't "feel" like a weekly forever anime because
It keep following the same formula over & over with few adjustment to make it look like they are doing something different. It basically no different than Pokemon following the same formula with Ash from OS to XY&Z series. The reason Precure is successful is by promoting new cute girls as eyecandies each series since nobody cares about Male Precure no matter how hard TOEI promotes them.

Its funny because Pokemon actually broke its formula to do something complete new with SM, JN and Horizons yet both JN and Horizons ended up failing.
>Sailor Moon, on the other hand, isn't the juggernaut it was in the '90s anymore
It is the highest grossing magical girl franschise with 14 billion estimate earning compared to Precure's 8 billion.
>Madoka
Good thing that you mention Madoka, an anime that had a complete ending during its first anime series yet it keep getting new movie to extend its story with the same character instead of replacing them with new protagonist.

>>59516406
It was only a 4 episode side project.
All these complaints are because it wasn't the main focus.

horizons fans are literal faggots

>>59516695
>It keep following the same formula over & over with few adjustment to make it look like they are doing something different.
It inherently does things different every year by changing the cast, setting, and premise. What it doesn't do is change genres entirely, which is the unreasonable standard you're setting to deny being wrong.
>It is the highest grossing magical girl franschise with 14 billion estimate earning compared to Precure's 8 billion.
Sailor Moon had a decade-long head start and was one of the biggest anime in the world when anime started taking off in English-speaking countries. Precure is still very niche outside of Japan. For the gap to be that close is an indictment of Sailor Moon, not Precure.

The problem is that the Pokemon company became a profits-first company. There is a genuine place in my heart for Ash as a character that I felt like they just poorly depicted throughout the anime in it's entirety. They started off with a childlike innocence and heart, but then had no real direction and I'm not entirely sure what caused it, but it hurt me really bad when I was growing up because I identified with Ash as an underdog and as someone that struggled. Instead of it being purely centered on battling, Ash could have lost the league and instead sought mastery elsewhere through exploration. The movies always showed how Ash's unorthodox battling was better used in more non traditional battling anyways and I felt like that was something they could have maybe pushed for, like Ash is this dude traveling the wilderness and he's really good at utilizing Pokemon's innate abilities and talents to navigate a world/survival and maybe he turns up way later after having undergone harsher environments or situations and shown that getting stronger outside of battle was the way to go. I dunno, maybe something like Hunter x Hunter but with mons. Palworld although I have never played it nor really have any interest in it seems to be leaning towards the latter and I think Pokemon as a series missed out on this.