Does anybody feel that Original series had far more darker & mature story compare to later series like Horizons? Even though it was treated like slice of life gag anime.
>>59597605Go back in your containment thread animefag
>>59597605>>59596113
>>59597605That's because prior to Johto, the anime was doing whatever the fuck it wanted with the property since Pokemon didn't settle fully into what it wanted to go for as a property, and what's considered kid friendly in Japan is probably considered teen friendly here. For those reasons alone, there was prone to be an episode here and there a little more thought provoking or deeper than the regions afterward which strictly fell into following the in-game sequences strictly.The Sun and Moon anime is probably closer to what you want despite appearances and ramble. People just got mad whiplash when it went from an action anime in XY to island slice of life adventures.
>>59597605they felt like going hiking alone was a bad idea as opposed to the never in danger later stories, yea.
Takeshi Shudo treated the first arc as if it were a shonen anime. Not an interconnected, introspective battle series like DBZ but akin to something like Dai no Daibouken. When the series went on longer than expected, Orange arc was also written in the same style, and early on Johto seemed to be going in the same direction. Johto really doesn't fall apart until we reach Ecruteak, which is because Shudo left the series and the executives axed the major plot point of the whole arc, the GS Ball. After they learn the Ho-oh lore and such, the series nosedives into endless filler, which still wasn't entirely no-stakes like it would become, but it just meanders through characters of the day in the lamest way possible. No one had a vision of where to take the story, and by Hoenn it had devolved into entirely formulaic kodomo shit.
why do autists want kids media to be dark and gritty so bad?
All Pikachu's fault, if he had just listened to Ash they wouldn't have gotten rekt by Spearows.
Ashnime is shonen coded when it's good but it can never top Special which is literally soft seinen the whole run
>>59597605No, it was lazy, repetitive, childish nonsense right from the start. Yes, even in the Japanese. Yes, even the gun episodes that got banned in the west, where the guns were used for gag comedy. Nobody was ever in any real danger.
>>59597605>>59598903How many threads do you need for petty shit that only matters to you Fagmon? Get a job you homeless shitbag.
>>59598119SMshitters truly are mentally ill.
>>59599967You mean Nekketsu anime?
>>59599968>>59600221No one's asking it to be dark and gritty. They original anime was indeed funny and full of gags but at least it had personality. It didn't feel like it was put through the corporate slop machine like what comes out now. It's been that way since at least hoenn though, probably longer, so it's not a new thing. It's TPC trying to appeal to as big a mass market as possible. So when you aren't appealing to Japanese youth sensibilities anymore and having fun for the sake of it and rather trying to just make something 'ok' for everyone you just get slop.
>>59597605Based
>>59599968There needs to be something to counter all the gay and infantilized shit. Anyone older than their mid-20s probably remembers a time when kids' media was more than that and could dabble in some darker(relatively) subjects.
>>59597605Not really. It was just more genuine in it's execution. Ash in Indigo League is just a dumb kid and fumbles his way to success only to lose in the Indigo League because Charizard, whose suppose to be his ace won't even listen to him because he doesn't respect Ash as a trainer either. All the other series just make Ash stupid on purpose, Indigo League at least it made sense because it's literally his first time doing anything and lacks the experience.
>>59597605>>59602749I always thought Johto league wpuld have been a fitting arc to retire Ash's character. He's clearly not a novice anymore (as evident from hom steamrolling Casey) and actually starts earning badges legitimately. Him beating Gary in the Silver Conference finals would have been a good conclusion to his character.Instead they decide to wring him out for twenty fucking years lol
here you go op>https://pokemonthenovel.dreamwidth.org/380.html>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgnvvI4q7LQ>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQbKwNmsTes
>>59599967>shonen anime>Whee a main character gets sympathy badges, gets a shit inevolved team the whole season and then fucks up in the fifth round of the league in the most retarded way possible then cries and mopes like a bitchShudo was a retarded hack and them making Lugia male was anipokes ultimate revenge
>>595999681. Kids like dark and gritty.2. Real life is like that sometimes and most people value authenticity.3. Safe sanitized slop is boring. Think of it like a roller coaster. You need both ups and downs to have a satisfying experience.
>>59603102Based
>>59597605I'm with you OP.It was darker. I tried to get into the sun/moon anime and it was so boring.>Even though it was treated like slice of life gag anime.Yes however there was the episode that made canon(is anything even canon in the anime?) that charmander and presumably all fire pokemon will literally DIE if rain extinguishes their flame.And this is not some pokedex bullshit no one reads and stays irrelevant for the rest of the game. This was a central and shown point of the anime. Or at the beginning when ash is trying to get his almost dead pikatchu to the poke center. Or how ash died in the first movie.You can add the existential horror(implied) of people like Sabrina literally existing and having basically magic that lets them turn you into dolls forever. However this is more implied horror and not directly shown.>>59599968>why do autists want kids media to be dark and gritty so bad?I answer this for you. BECAUSE I WAS A KID WATCHING THE ANIME AND WATCHED THAT AND MORE DARK THINGS WHILE GROWING UP! KIDS THESE DAYS!Yes I want things back like they where in my day! Unhinged and full of death! >>59603102>1. Kids like dark and gritty.Basically this. I have no idea why corporations and parents pretend like their 12 year old does not want to see adult and dark things. I was a kid and all I wanted from what I remember to be adult and do adult things.Literally the only exception are the 0-5 year olds(toddlers) who get spooked by anything frightening. However toddler media is crap and no one who is at the age of reason(another key word) wants to watch that shit. While people at the age of reason and older can enjoy similar things.
>>59597605>>59605068Dark? No. Dark comedy esque? Maybe. It barely took itself seriously.
>>59605072>Dark comedy esque?WRONG!It has dark moments and basically slapstick team rocket moments mixed with normal walking and exploring the pokemon world. The dark moments create drama and tension and this is interesting for the plot. Any plot to exist.Unless you are making toddler media.
>>59599967>>59602832>>Whee a main character gets sympathy badges, gets a shit inevolved team the whole season and then fucks up in the fifth round of the league in the most retarded way possible then cries and mopes like a bitchI do not know if it was corporate planning or a happy accident however unlike all the other anime protagonists ash is unique. Lets contrast Ash to Yu-Gi-OH Yami Yugi like every protagonist basically walks on cheat codes 24/7. He wins every fight never really struggles and never looses a fight. The only way Kiba was able to make him lose was to literally threaten to kill himself. And the anime pretends like Yugis deck is super great while it literally is mid at best and functions on plot contrivance and getting the right cards he needs.Same for the yugioh great crazy villains Marik and the anime pretend like the winged dragon of ra is unstoppable while IRL it is hot garbage that is so bad that even after they tried to buff it the only viable way to """use it""" was to literally give it to your opponent so it bricks his deck and board.Ash is unique since in universe he is a idiot and his pokemon team beign trash is basically what every kid playing the games made. I tried to model my team after his since I was thinking that I am copying some e-sports meta deck or some shit. However it was bad and I changed it over time.This is the genius, Ash is not some plot armor god who walks up to every challenge and wins every contest until the show becomes self parody. Him failing and being bad or getting badges because people feel sorry for him is exactly like a 10 year old would play these games or be treated. In contrast Garry is a power gamer in the anime.This makes Ash very relatable since he is not a merry sue that wins every fight he is some stupid 10 year old kid and he never did try to run some meta exploits.As for DBZ Goku is boring as fuck there is a reason people like Vegeta more.
no, yugioh bayblade digimon were darker and better the pokemon tranime
>>59605137>yugioh>digimon >were darker and better the pokemon tranimeI agree. However old pokemon anime was light years above the trash pokemon anime of today.
>>59605146the same garbage, team rocket blasting off again wow what a dark
>>59605134yugi wonash lost
>>59605156>>59605152>the same garbage, team rocket blasting off again wow what a darkAlmost dead pikatchuhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6LFdBPjbf4Fun fact this episode(by existing) violates the Geneva convention(in real life)!
everytime pokemon try something dark and serious is cringe. it doesn't work,only work being a gag anime and slice of life like poketoons
>>59605068That Charmander thing was actually just the writers misreading a dex entry, the idea is that the flame represents its life force and will burn eternally as long as it's alive, only going out when it dies, not that Chamander dies if someone tosses a bit of water on it and puts out the flame. There's plenty of later episodes that show them falling into water and shit without the flame going out.
>>59600221This, but animefags will never admit it because they actually can't read, that's why their main form of engagement with this franchise is the most lazy one of all, watching videos that beam information straight into their eyeballs.Even playing the games uses more brainpower and needs more interaction than watching the anime. Hell even TCG scalpers have the shrewd sociopathic drive to plot their scams, leave their houses, fight children for cards at Walmart and then set up a business front to resell their ill-gotten stock. Animefags are near the bottom IQ tier of this fanbase.
>>59605212>There's plenty of later episodes that show them falling into water and shit without the flame going out.This is why I asked >(is anything even canon in the anime?) Because the anime introduced an idea made it prominent in 1 episode and forgot about it and never revisited.I wanted to talk before how crazy the early pokemon anime was.I mentioned Sabrina basically making canon that psychic humans are real like X men and also made human magic canon since Sabrina can turn humans into dolls. There is more things like remember the 2 gigantic pokemon in that one episode never talked about? Not Gigantamax 20 years before Gigantamax ever existed.https://pokemon.fandom.com/wiki/Giant_Alakazamhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7jmc-Nlf_gRemember when that happen? And they never talked about that EVER? >misreading a dex entryThe point is that it is a example of dark content and it fearing for its life.
>>59605237>Muh gamesLiterally press forward and spam A>b-b-b- the plot There is no plot in the games all antagonists are pants shitting retarded(that game freak needs to retcon and damage control for, remember how fucken retarded and insane original team aqua and magma used to be?) and all NPCs talk like they got 80% of their brain removed. https://youtu.be/e1h5TzdTq0o?list=PL2C924BB1F9863B0A&t=44
>>59605269>animefag is so illiterate he barely read the post he's responding to>proceeds to ramble schizophrenically about points never even brought up in the first placeHoly fucking kek, thanks for proving that animefags indeed have bottom tier IQ.
>>59605134all pokemon human character are so fucking boring, kaiba mogs every pkmn rival
>>59605134Yami works as a character mostly because when he was first introduced he was a borderline force of the nature. The question wasn't if he was going to win, it was when his opponents would try to cheat and what terrible ironic fate would befall him. It helped that typically the character suffering the ironic fate would spend the previous issue or two tormenting poor nerdy normal Yugi. Goku is similar, at least as a kid. Outside of a few specific fights it's rarely ever in question IF he will win, just how he will do it and how his opponents will react to it. While he can have a clever strategy here and there, he's rarely the underdog and most of the time just tanks whatever strategy the enemies throw at him. The problem with both characters is mostly that they lose a lot of what makes them intresting after a while. Yami generally comes across as better in this regard, what with much of the final story arc heavily focusing on his backstory and past life. Goku basically just stops being a character and largely becomes a plot device around the saiyan arc. As much as Toriyama hates the trope, apparently, he basically just gets written as generic hero man whose only job is to rush in at the last moment and save his friends/son before beating up the enemy. In that regard Ash really isn't all that different. He has a very strong introduction, a decent enough initial arc, and then basically just stops existing as a character altogether. He doesn't really grow or change in any way outside of being written inconsistently enough to occasionally lose all of his knowledge and talent. He was mostly the same largely inconsistent character from the end of Kanto (Arguably even somewhat before that) all the way to his final victory.
>>59597605It was far darker and edgier because the writers were given free reign, the same thing happened with Digimon and Yu-Gi-OhThe focus in the 90s was write a fun show that gets people interested in the toys/games. This soon changed and companies became more hands on, micromanaging everything or else they just outsourced their shows to assholes (capcom handing away DMC)
Haven't watch Horizons and haven't watched the Ashime in years, but, from what I remeber, I do feel like the series got, not so much "less serious" (it actually got mlre serious), but it got less emotional, IG. As in, it became less concerned with the emotions of the characters
>>59597605"darker and mature" is a retarded way of saying it. You're looking for the word "grounded"
thats digimon not pokemon, digimon works because it has literally monsters based in satan demons, angels gods etc..they can talk too.pokemon are just neopets
Because pokemon is so sanitized, a nip said is the worst anime japan created
>>59602783Yeah, because localization made it so Ash was a mascot they couldn't get rid of due to the admittedly genius decision to promote the anime first and foremost, TCG and merch second, and actual video games last. Bastard was on a lot of merch, he was synonymous with Pokemon as much as Pikachu, and the two were glued by the hip.
>>59597605But Horizons had a more mature story than the Ashnime had in over 20 years. The plot was way more similar to what you'd see in an Ashnime era movie. The recent arc not so much, though. But the whole plot about Spinel was pretty dark, certainly darker than the baby shit in the Ashnime. It had no stakes other than "will Ash job this time?" and the answer was always "yes" because they wrote themselves in a corner and couldn't make Ash win since that would end his journey. >>59599968Cause they want to pretend they are grown ups when they clearly aren't, not mentally at least. They can't get into proper adult hobbies since they are mentally stunted, so they wish that their childhood fixations would become acceptable to adults instead.They also have a very poor grasp on what "adult media" even is, which is why you see all those retarded romhacks where people are swearing all the time and there's a lot of violence for no reason and with literally no nuance. They know that these elements are present in media for adults, but they don't understand why. They just copy what they see cause they think that's how being an adult works.
>>59599968Pokèmon fans are manchildren embarrassed of being addicted to a game made for babies so they look for any once of edginess to make themselves look “mature”
>>59605253The anime introduced the idea by mistake because the writers thought it was canon to the games. Then the anime dropped the idea because they realized it wasn't supposed to be part of the concept after all.The other stuff is fair, but this one was a legit mistake that got dropped once they realized that.
>>59605068>It was darker. I tried to get into the sun/moon anime and it was so boring.So why mention "le death" as a positive, when the Stoutland episode from SM hits just like those ones?
>>59603102Super based
>>59606203>But Horizons had a more mature story than the Ashnime had in over 20 years.Horizons is a freaking joke and only people who thinks its mature are those with low standard. The plot consistently bend to the protagonist's favor, all the character has retarded backstories and motivation that makes zero sense, the villain are bigger jobber than TRio and they are so incompetent that writers had to erase police for them to be any threat. >The plot was way more similar to what you'd see in an Ashnime era movie.It was an inferior wish fulfillment rehash of the Pokemon Movie 09. >, though. But the whole plot about Spinel was pretty dark,Spinel is freaking joke compared to Hunter J, Giovanni , all the evil team boss & the pirates from movie 09. The main story ended long time ago and we still don't know what this guy's plan was to begin with. You know how bad an villain is when the anime has to make everybody dumb to make him look smart. Because his plan was so retarded that it would have failed on Ashnime without Ash doing a thing because of International Police, G-man and League Chairmans. His big plan was selling steroid to athletic because Horizons take place in such a lawless wasteland that people can openly sell drugs to children on their school. >. It had no stakes other than "Oh ya, like Horizon had so much stake when main characters took an army of legendary pokemon to fight bunch of grunts. At least Ash had actual stakes because he wasn't guaranty of succeed. Horizons had zero stakes because we know good guys will win & bad guys gonna lose.
>>59605134Ash failing and trying again isn't so unique, in fact everything you said about Atem is basically unique to him. Yu-Gi-Oh is an outlier because of the fact the protag never really loses in combat and instead cheats his way to victory (against equally cheating foes). All of the high stakes drama of Yugi's duels are either due to Shadow Games threatening the little Yugi's soul, or his opponent almost cheating/magicking their way to near victories.Almost all of Atem and Yugi's character development is internal and happens in their mind, inside the Puzzle, etc. Ash being a retard who loses a lot but wins on dumb luck makes him closer to a child Goku or even fucking Harry Potter.
>>59605984Only in the West and Pokemania was dead and buried by the time replacing Ash really needed to happen (AG)
>>59605984>>59607604But in all seriousness retiring Ash in Johto would have been the right call because Pokemania was coming to an end around that time and he would have been more fondly remembered among kids who stuck through and finally watched him win the championship
>>59607592You very clearly didn't even watch Horizons. And no, Ash was always guaranteed to lose in the end so his journey could continue, so there were literally no stakes ever. Claiming anything else is honestly just straight up delusional.
>>59603102Hyper based
>>59606218This they are delusionaL
>>59597605Nigger, it is a HILARIOUSLY SHITTY anime. Cut corners, shitty story, shitty animation, shitty dialogue, shitty characters, shitty stories. Face it, loser: you just watched a 22.5 minute commercial every weekend for thirty fucking years, and it worked. Dark undertones? Faggot, it's a COMMERCIAL about MAGICAL CARTOON ANIMALS in a SPORT. There aint even light undertones. No undertones whatsoever. Get a fucking clue loser. Y'see, this is what I mean when I always say that the people who kept buying after the dex cut were all animefags, chronic gamblers, or youtubers trying DESPERATELY to convince everybody that the franchise they made their entire living off of "totally isn't dead you guys! Keep buying! Buy multiple copies of both versions!! Trading with friends? Who would want to be friends with a dicklett who buys modern pokemon? Just buy more to fill the void!"
>>59597605OS Pokemon wasn't darker, it was just more grounded. It was basically the real world but with elements of fantasy and the Pokemon world in it while later generations are clearly set in the world from the Pokemon games
