Is it true this console was so bad it killed Sega? Why? what went wrong? Don't be harsh on me. I was a Nintendo only child. Don't know anything about Sega history.
>>12596103SOJ sabotaging SOA is what killed Sega.
>>12596103No mainline Sonic because SoJ was too stupid to tell Naka what to do
>>12596103Actually, it's the best console ever.
Auster falseflag thread
>>12596103As a kid the Saturn was the worst. As an adult it aged the best. The shmups on Saturn are timeless.
>>12596115>>12596259If you limit yourself to consoles its amazing but you're always better off emulating the arcade original
>>12596267I looked into this and Saturn versions are actually the best. Who could have seen it coming?
>>12596273>values some grainy art gallery jpegs over performance
Sega was offered what became the N64 first but they were like nah lets make a "2D" console and shit themselves when PS1 was shown off.
>>12596103A number of reasons...Sega already took a financial hit on SOA's insistence on the failed 32XSaturn had complicated architecture due to last minute revisions for stronger 3D capabilities making it more expensive & difficult to port games onto.SOA having no idea how to market itSOA's stealth launch to beat Sony to market resulted in alienating retailers and pushing fewer & unfinished games as launch titlesSOJ not realizing that home console releases need more content than being just straight arcade ports that can be beaten in 20minutesSonic Team not wanting to make a Sonic game yet being too proud to let anyone else make one.SOJ & SOA not leveraging enough established IPs in generalSOA refusing to localize 80% of the librarySOA killing it mid generation in NA by its President publicly saying "The Saturn is not our future"I think that should about cover it.
>>12596281It's crazy but it's true, Saturn versions BTFO arcade versions.
>>12596286I heard nintendo shit themselves too when they realized they bought a piece of shit design that can't even do 3D well. Miyamoto was quoted saying "ahhh my caca! My cacaeru mario wirr be disappointed!"
>>12596291You're lying. Prove it
>>12596305I wish. Elevator Action Returns? Better on Saturn. Better framerate and an extra button the game recognizes, making all arcade versions pointless.
>>12596290you didn't beat the game
>>12596290> Saturn had complicated architecture due to last minute revisions for stronger 3D capabilities The second SH2 does not make the machine more difficult to use over not having it. If you don't use the second SH2 then its exactly the same as it not being there at all.
>>12596103They had already wasted loads of money on the 32X and CD, I blame Saturn for nothing, it was a victim.
>>12596298True N64 is flawed, but Saturn is pure shit. N64 at least made a nice niche with platformers and FPS.
>>12596306it doesnt have "better framerate" tranny
>>12596313And that's how you end up with gimped ports like SotN on Saturn.
>>12596320>brings up trannies that live rent free in his headUnlike those troons you worship, Saturn mogs Taito F3. You've never played either.
>>12596103The Saturn killed Sega's console division but the fall of the arcades and the theme Parks they had for Sonic were more damaging for their profits and company.
>>12596290need some addendums to the biased SoJ weeb faggot's remarks>Sega already took a financial hit on SOA's insistence on the failed 32Xwhich is nothing compared to how badly the genesis bombed in japan>Saturn had complicated architecture due to last minute revisions for stronger 3D capabilities making it more expensive & difficult to port games onto.in addition, SoJ refused to give SoA proper documentation/drivers so they were basically on their own for making games>SOA's stealth launch to beat Sonywhich was only done because SoJ essentially strongarmed them into doing so>SOA refusing to localize 80% of the librarybecause 80% of the library is shitty weeb shumps/rpgs/other garbage novelty games that westerners don't want to play, so good call on that front>SOA killing it mid generation in NAanother good call. it was a failed console doomed from wanton spending of SoA's genesis money by SoJyou will NEVER be japanese
>>12596330>not arcade accurate>b-b-better!!cope
>>12596339That's what the box says. Sorry kid! You tried with your failed talking points. You don't even play games do you?
>>12596323I doubt the SH2's had anything whatsoever to do with the state of that specific port. Its a mostly 2d game right?, Not exactly demanding on the cpu. The main issue with the Saturn is not the cpu, its the gpu.
>>12596346Actuuuuuuuuually it do s because the fan remake of SotN Saturn runs ENTIRELY on SH-2 for...Dynamic Polygon Meshing: Instead of standard flat sprites, the engine utilizes "SuperQuads". The SH-2 processes dynamic polygon meshes that morph at close distances and consolidate the further they are from the camera, allowing for advanced detail scaling.Physics and Collision: The single SH-2 handles camera collision, grabbing physics, and floating platforms natively, processing the game at \(352 \times 224\) resolution.
>>12596343>not japanesenot canon
>>12596103>Is it true this console was so bad it killed Sega? Why?Sony showed people there was another way.
>>12596103In reality nothing Sega could have done would have been enough to survive the inevitable Sony/Microsoft domination of the videogame industry. Nintendo only survived because they stumbled on the infinite money glitch with Pokemon. The people who blame the Saturn for Sega's demise are the same people who blame Christianity for the fall of Rome. The writing was already on the wall.
imagine choosing Saturn ports over arcade originals.
>>12596383Saturn versions are original, why are you such a pussy you don't respond directly to the people you want the attention of? Are we supposed to take a pussy like you seriously? You're afraid of being challenged. Pussy.
>>12596381Sega could have just as easily found an infinite money glitch too>>12596385hoes mad
the Saturn wasn't a failure, it was simply before it's time
>>12596410It's been 30 years and there are still no nights wannabes, still waiting for that time
>>12596410>saved the pic I postedBased anon, I hope you aren't falseflaggin.The Sega Saturn really comes from a literal different time. Not just the past but a different one from the one a lot of people here experienced. 2012 was the big merge. That's why so many of you are confused about this splendid console.
>>12596413Naka never shared the engine, westies could only come up with Pandemonium
imagine thinking any of these games are better on the shitturn:Daytona USASega Rally ChampionshipVirtua Fighter 2The House of the DeadOut RunMetal SlugVirtua Cop 2Fighting VipersLast BronxVirtual On: Cyber Troopers
>>12596103The Gayga Shitturn
>>12596107Japs would rather fall on their own sword than cooperate with filthy gaijin
>>12596435they're better than ps1 or n64 games doe
>>12596435>>12596437ok, auster
>>12596440FF7 and OoT take a big shit over the entire SHITTURN library alone
>>12596450Saga and OOT are much more impressive games than FF VII, which is just another FF game, this time with FMVs and low poly models over a 2D background.
>>12596173shut the fuck up schizo nigger
>>12596450>walking sim movie gamesbaka
>>12596440Not all of them. House of the dead was slop even in the arcades.
>>12596401Sega could have theoretically found an infinite money glitch but they lacked the conditions that made Pokemon such a wild success for Nintendo.1. Nintendo had a good relationship with CoroCoro comics (the largest manga publication in Japan for small children) who were looking for a new face of the magazine after Doraemon ended. 2. A large install base of cheap handheld game systems.3. A large variety of family friendly IP to encourage parents to bring their children into the company's ecosystem.Sega was simply too ingrained into the teenage/adult market capitalize on younger gamers like Nintendo.
>>12596464You lost a long time ago
>>12596484Sega had intimate relations and provided an angel investment to Nvidia, which ended up becoming the most highly valued company in the world. Sega was doing SMT before Nintendo was doing Pokemon, and even ended up making Persona which shook the world eventually. All of the conditions were there, it was just bad luck and bad execution on Sega's part
>>12596335>SoJ refused to give SoA proper documentation/drivers so they were basically on their own for making games"Proper documentation" wasn't a dev right until Sony made it a standard.SoJ was still in the wrong for not adapting in time but it wasn't a hate filled decision.
>>12596439Pride is expensive, apparently.
>>12596534SMT was never going to get the same market as pokemon. I love Sega and their consoles, but they were never going to able to withstand that sheer amount of money coming out of the conglomerates and I do not think they could have captured the young/ casual market like Nintendo. By 1995 Sega going third party was inevitable and any success they had would just be delaying the inevitable.
>>12596489No, you pissed of the board by spamming auster over and over in every fucking thread on this board. That fucking guy doesn't even post here anymore. Kill yourself man.
>>12596103Piracy Killed The Dreamcast. End of story.
>>12596580how can that be true when the Dreamcast had no good games to pirate?
>>12596381Bullshit. NEC failed. Phillips failed. Apple failed. Google failed. I firmly believe the chances of SEGA surviving were higher than their chances of not surviving. I think we live in the 1/100 odds simulation where SEGA was so comically incompetent that they allowed Sony to rise. SEGA is the good old trusted and recognized brand. If they don't release the 32x, release the Saturn on the planed day, then they'd win the 94/95 disc-based system war against PlayStation purely out of being the more recognizable brand. Sony only bared outsold SEGA in 1995 Japan. They could've also done much better in America too with no 32x, normal release and more localizations. Then by 1996 all the third-parties run to SEGA since Nintendo screwed up with cartridges. So, the Saturn gets FF7 (killing PS in Japan) and if SEGA is smart also Sonic X-Treme (which helps them against N64) and the rest would be history.
>>12596648If they had "no" good games to pirate, then the pirate fags wouldn't go out of their way to pirate Dreamcast games. Also it's obvious you've never played a single Dreamcast game, they had a ton of good games. Soul Calibur, Dead Or Alive 2, Sonic Adventure, Shenmue, Crazy Taxi just to name a few.
>>12596580>>12596648>>12596742the dreamcast was a success.the Arcade biz tanked the company, they went 3rd party for quick cash.
>>12596580SoA crashing SEGA with no survivors is what killed Dreamcast.
>>12596748>the Arcade biz tanked the companyThis is fake history, the only years where SEGAs arcade branch reported losses was during Covid.>By 2000, the Sega Model 2 & 3 had sold over 200,000 *arcade systems worldwide making them some of the best-selling arcade game boards of all time. At around $15,000 each (for the Model 2, with the Model 3 costing higher), this amounts to at least over $3 billion revenue from cabinet sales, equivalent to over $5 billion as of 2017.
>>12596335>which is nothing compared to how badly the genesis bombed in japanMegaDrive was never sold at a loss. SEGA didn't lose a single yen selling their homeconsoles in Japan.>which was only done because SoJ essentially strongarmed them into doing soOh no the poor innocent SoA who convinced everyone of the great 32X project. Convincing SoJ to actually rally first, second and third parties for this piece of shit only for it to land like a wet fucking fart. Yeah let's wait for 1996 and await the N64 and potentially the Panasonic M2.
>>12596783there really is no way to save it with the 32x existing, everything you do there is a catch 22. they would have been better off mirroring the japanese late 1994 release with just virtua fighter and myst...
>>12596682You are delusional. None of those companies near the amount of weight and resources behind their systems as Sony did with the Playstation. If Sony had fallen flat on their face with the Playstation, Sega would have survived in Japan before being being eaten alive by Microsoft in every other region.
Imagine SEGA trying to make a game for this piece of shit circa 1996-1998>Weakest 3D capabilities>Weakest 2D capabilities>Shittiest sound quality>The most limited storage space, yes it cannot even attain the N64 64MB with bank switching
>>12596839If you were new to the SEGA platform it wasn't even cheap, 70-100 usd for a Genesis and 169 for the 32X...Everything about it is just so mind boggling
>>12596839>>12596845It simply should have been canned and the hardware reused for claw machines and pachinko.
>>12596534>Sega was doing SMT before Nintendo was doing Pokemon, and even ended up making Persona>SegaUh, what?
>>12596903Sega owns Atlas
>>12596910Not until 2013, aka, not before Pokemon, and they certainly didn’t create Persona.
>>12596918Ok I concede
>>12596259It's a console you had to be an adult to enjoy. 75% of its library is Japan only so you'd have to know where to get imports and what to buy, which is beyond little kids knowledge. N64 did a good job of making their great games front and center so it was always easy to know what to get as a little kid. Saturn is basically nothing but deep cuts for video game enthusiasts.
>>1259683932X CD exists.Bank switching let's you have as much rom as you want.32X is a beautiful failure. Terrible business move but all these years later is really unique and really cool for homebrew. AI and new tools, along with the fpga project, are going to breath new life into the 32X. Doom Fusion is the beginning of the 32X rennaisance.
>>12596579>"that guy"hi auster
>>12596964>To get into the SEGA platform you need a Genesis, Sega CD and 32X>End result a complete utter troglodyte and expensive tooWew SoA bros..
>>12596839> yes it cannot even attain the N64 64MB with bank switchingOk, this last statement is just straight up false. Bank switching has no limit.
>>12596570pokémon isn't a nintendo ip (though they did publish the first pair of games), the game boy was winding down and nintendo was planning a replacement for it by 1997 (the original game boy advance), but it was put off because of the unexpected meteoric rise of pokémon
>>12596648at the time it was around it was arguably the hardest disc-based console to pirate for. these days is one of the easiest, but only because of improvements in internet speed and wide availability of self-booting game rips.self-booting rips wasn't a thing before 2000, nor was the utopia boot disc. meanwhile saturn and psx backups had known swap tricks for several years prior.dreamcast cd's weren't trivial to read in a pc cd-rom drive, unlike saturn and psx cd's, and often required modification to fit on a cd as well.anyone with a cd burner could rent/borrow psx/saturn games and copy them without issue. i did it a lot with my psx.for dreamcast unless you were really into it or could find burned copies from others, were more something you had to download, which back then on dialup was a daunting task.tl;dr, no, piracy didn't kill dreamcast, it was almost finished by the time it became an option and piracy on other competing systems had been a thing for years already.
>>12596103The Saturn didn't kill Sega hardware, the development costs for the Dreamcast did. Sega wasted so much money on Dreamcast that the company only survived as a software developer because the single richest Sega employee put paying off Sega's debts in his will because he loved Sega so much. Seriously. The Dreamcast was an inherently costly and failed idea because of the launch window. No one should have been developing and releasing a console in 1998, which is why no one else did. Sega of Japan took too long to realize Sega of America were the single dumbest and most egotistical group of individuals in the 1990s American game dev space, and so they had to develop and release an entire new console. In any sane timeline, Sega of America would have made Saturn games and marketed the Saturn, but they failed to do either of these things, forcing Sega of Japan's hand.All of this happened for 2 reasons. Sega of Japan learned from 32X that Sega hardware fragmentation was not a good thing. So when the Americans tried to go behind Japan's back and develop "American Saturn" with Nvidia, Japan was not even about to humor that stupidity. They told Sega of America to stop scheming and make a Sonic game for Saturn. Sega of America of course failed to do this because they were the ONLY MAJOR GENESIS devs who were too bad at programming to do any optimization in assembly. Even their Genesis games are written almost entirely in C and have some of the worst performance on that console because of it.So if Sega of America had just bothered to stop ordering MILLIONS of surplus Genesis consoles that no one wanted well into 1997, and actually marketed the Saturn and translated more of the console's stellar JP library OR Sega of America's devs were actual good American devs like Naughty Dog/Insomniac/EA who could actually optimize for the hardware, Sega could have supported Saturn until 2000 in the US, and Dreamcast could have been a cheaper more powerful console.
>>12597790Pretty hard to market a piece of shit with no games and get people to develop for said dev unfriendly piece of shit, I'm talking about the Gayga Shitturn of course
>>12597806There are considerably more 8/10 games on Saturn than Dreamcast or N64. They didn't have to beat Playstation to survive, they just had to come in second place by beating the ALSO hard to develop for console that flopped in every region but NA.It doesn't matter how much better the Dreamcast hardware was compared to Saturn if the shit was literally so unprofitable to produce and sell that they ran out of money to make consoles. Likewise, it's hard to have a successful console to take on the PS2 when you alienated the entire third-party developer base from Saturn by killing it prematurely. Even if Sega had infinite money, Electronic Arts and most of the Japanese devs were so mad about Saturn they publicly told Sega to fuck off and refused to make any games for the Dreamcast.Writing games for any of these pre-Dreamcast platforms was dev unfriendly. You had to be a wizard to get stable texture mapping on PS1, non-blurry textures on N64, and stable 3D performance out of Saturn. All but the ugliest PS1 games use level-of-detail and polygon sub-dividing to cut down on texture wobbling because if they didn't every racing game on the console would make you vomit. People put up with it on playstation not simply because Sony's devkit was better than Sega/Nintendo, but because the userbase was so much larger. N64 was a flop outside of America, and Saturn was a flop outside of Japan. If either piece of hardware sold better, more developers would have figured out more programming tricks, and there'd be way more technically impressive games on par with the late PS1 library stuff that came out after Gran Turismo 2 and Metal Gear Solid.Homebrew devs have proven that Saturn could have run Unreal, Quake 2, Tomb Raider 2, and numerous other games it never got. Homebrew devs have proven that N64 can pull off graphical effects on par with early Dreamcast/PS2 titles. But none of that stuff got made because PS1 was where the money was. It doesn't make either console shit.
>>12596103iirc, it was not that was bad is was wrong place wrong time. Saturn is a beast at 2d, amazing for it but it also came out at the time when 2d was on its way out from being the standard, ps1 and n64 were way too new and much more exciting. The saturn had a lot of issues doing 3d and suffered for it, regardless of its 2d capabilities. It was like having the fastest horse when people started moving to cars.
>>12597838>The saturn had a lot of issues doing 3d and suffered for it, regardless of its 2d capabilities.And this is because SoJ didn't want to move to 3D and actively resisted it which caused the Saturd's cost to balloon out of control when they finally did tack on 3D support.
>>12596115It has a lot of cool games, more than you'd expect, but I mean, so does the Speccy
>>12596380>Since PlayStation is newer, some consumers feel it is technically superiorYeah I don't actually know why Sega tried to be special snowflakes who release their console way ahead of their competitors' next gen hardware
>>12597847Saturn has the weird multichip setup because 2 SH2s and VDP1/2 were cheaper, especially after 95, than paying Nvidia or SGI a royalty on every chip sold. Sega didn't want to pay that because they had already developed good in-house 3D tech with Lockheed. Their mistake was keeping that part of the company working on arcade games while Saturn's rendering is a pretty obvious evolution of the Super Scaler family tree, just like the MegaCD and 32X were.It's also hard to really define what people would come to expect from 3D hardware way back in 1994. Saturn's 3D is seemingly 50 times better than anything 32X or SNES with SuperFX can do. It can easily handle ports of Daytona USA and Virtual Fighter 2 that look amazing. All but a few early PS1 3D games would have no problem running on Saturn (and a lot of them got ports pre-1997). So it's hard to fault them for not seeing Mario 64 and FF7 coming down the pipeline, no one else really did either.>>12597874>>12596380Playstation only came out 2 weeks after Saturn in Japan. Sega's decision to release the console early in America was based on Saturn's success over Playstation in December 1994, when Playstation's only notable game was Ridge Racer and VF1 was just a way more notable arcade port. When both consoles began to get games, word of mouth spread that Battle Arena Toshinden and later Tekken were as good if not better than Virtua Fighter. By the time of the US announcement, Playstation was already turning the tide against Sega in Japan, so they wanted to get early marketshare and were hoping the could pull off something like what Microsoft later did with the Xbox 360.Playstation famously outsold the Saturn in it's first TWO DAYS in North America in 1995, but even these are terrible numbers compared to what either console would do in 1996. SNES/Genesis outsold both platforms in 1995. By 1996 both consoles had great games, so it really comes down to Sony's ad blitz that SoA didn't/wouldn't replicate.
>>12597847> when they finally did tack on 3D supportThe endless myth spoken over and over.
>>12596103Buy Japanese saturn.It's beautiful.Have the white console or grey (not early model) and superior controller.Has a ton of great games and stuff that didn't get released worldwide because soa are retards.It uses the extra 4mb cartridge.Game cases are beautiful.Get the black saturn.Here you go kid....Cheaper plastic used, inferior trash controller with easily breakable shoulder buttons.Most of the game library missing.Ugly as sin cases.The saturn was only successful in Japan because they treated it correctly there.
>>12597913The writing was on the wall, they focused their 3d efforts on arcade ports when people were also on its way out and people wanted more campaign that pushed the hardware in new directions. Not just local arcade but worse.
I still firmly believe that the reason Saturn flopped was because the library just wasn't compelling. If the games on Saturn truly were as great as Saturn fans insist they are the system would've done just fine. It's not like nobody knew the system existed, I was there, it had plenty of ads on TV and gaming magazines would always review the latest releases. I had a Genesis and was looking forward to the Saturn, I wanted to remain loyal to Sega, but when I saw and got to try the games that were coming out I just wasn't impressed. Daytona looked and played like absolute horse shit compared to the arcade, Virtua Fighter wasn't very impressive anymore because VF2 was already out, games like Clockwork Knight and Bug looked like Genesis games and weren't actually fun to play, etc. And games like those are pretty much the only things the system had, bad/underwhelming arcade ports and really dogshit platformers with the occasional terrible racing game thrown in for good measure. Years later I ended up getting one after hearing online how under rated and actually awesome the system supposedly is and after playing what are often said to be the best games I was even less impressed than I was in 1995. Burning Rangers fucking sucks, Astal fucking sucks, Nights fucking sucks, Panzer Dragoon Saga just made me wish I was playing a normal PD game and wasn't even as good as the weakest Playstation JRPG, all of these games that get hyped up online aren't actually any good at all. And don't even get me started on the "the Japanese library is so much better" meme, outside of some shmups and a couple fighting game ports there's really nothing we missed out on unless you want to play the Tempo game that's even worse than the one on 32X.The Saturn just sucks plain and simple, and in retrospect I hate it even more now because it's poor performance is what ended up killing the Dreamcast, the greatest system ever made.
>>12597951Saturn mogs dreamcast in every genre. Didn't read the rest btw.
>>12597938>The saturn was only successful in JapanNo it wasn't.
>>12597958Relatively, it was.
>>12597951>and wasn't even as good as the weakest Playstation JRPGLike what?
>>12597938list the Japan exclusive games that I should play, that haven't been fan translated
So from what I have gather in this thread, both SoJ and SoA were equally retarded.
>>12598037yep
>>12597973I'm not listing anything because I'm tired, but I'm playing Choro Q Park right now. It's pretty fun. I think it's better than the N64 games and the first PS1 game, but probably not as good as Choro Q Wonderful.
>>12596103The perception at least was that there was no reason to own it since the ps1 could do everything it could do. The VDP mode 7 effect was nice, Sonic Jam and R showed that a great looking true sonic game could be made. After that the N64 and ps1 had huge price drops then Sega dipped.>>12596319N64 has nothing as good as Fighting Vipers>>12596435because you don't have to pay $1 for each sessionhttps://youtu.be/Do5LGl4V24g?t=17
>>12598071>N64 has nothing as good as Fighting VipersThis is true unless you want to count Smash Bros (which has more in common with something like the AM2 3D fighting games than they do with SF likes).However, N64 has Super Robot Spirits that, while a modest game, is still the only fighting game in the SRW series and actually has a lot of soul
