>Dude I love Donkey Kong 64 that game is so much fun I would spend hours scouring those levels and collecting all the items I use the tag anywhere romhack it's the only way to play otherwise without it it's such a slog!
Does it rub anyone else the wrong way when someone seems to genuinely like or enjoy the game, but they modded it to make it play fundamentally different? DK64 is just a big example, but I've seen this same mentality about other games. There's just something about a massive mod applied to a game that changes so much about it, to the degree they are abetted in playing a game completely differently than the original experience that annoys me to hear people talk about.
Sadly for most people video games are not an art form with a vision that should be respectedInstead it's more similar to a vacuum cleaner "i will upgrade this old vacuum cleaner with the much better modern one"
>>12610752Kinda depends>Game where the fundamental formula is good, but extraneous design decisions completely ruin itFair>Game where the core gameplay loop is fine, but people can't bear to have to face the consequences of their failures>The game doesn't respect my time!The problem isn't with the game.
>>12610752Doesn't bother me one bit.Now, if someone mods a game to make it easier, and they brag about how good they are for beating it quickly or doing some challenge, they're probably not someone worth talking to.
>>12610752I agree with you. The devs could have coded it that way, but they designed it differently for a reason
>>12610806I describe DK64 as the original Dandori game. I completely understand the vision and it causes me to get irritated whenever I see someone swear by the character switching anywhere mod. An ideal remake for instance would have a map and everything collectible you see would wind up on it, still no instant swapping mod. Would just be a bit more lenient in how the game is meant to be played that way. Not everyone has as great a memory as me, so the game keeps track of where things are for the player that needs to be reminded.
>>12610748>tag anywhere romhackYou didn't beat it.
>>12610769Even with your analogy it reminds me of something I was thinking about before. If you don't genuinely enjoy a game to that degree, why not just play something else instead. Something about forcing a game to play a different way annoys me a lot.
>>12610903No kidding, that romhack turns DK64 into a knock off discount Majora's Mask. Where you're essentially just playing as a single character that can transform. That ain't no DK64 anymore.
>>12610782I can understand that, I don't know if you agree with me but with Majora's Mask you get the bunnyhood and it makes you move quicker. I see no issue at all with having that at the beginning of the game. I don't see it erroneous to mod it into Ocarina of Time either.
>>12610798I think that's the general consensus among most people. They say stuff like let everyone have or make their own fun, or play the game their way. However it annoys me to make large sweeping changes to a game, and to go about saying shit like "it's the *only* way to play!"
>>12610910Considering the time cycle, thats just a light cheat disguised as QoL. Less offensive for OoT, but that still had timed sections as well. I was referring more to shit like the MMX5 fix project stopping the game from screeching to a halt with forced dialogue mid platforming.>>12610798Basically this though. People can ruin games for themselves, they're free to do so, but its not something that should be celebrated or to be proud of. Especially since it usually goes hand in hand with people who play a game once to scratch it off their "backlog" and then never touch it again. Anything other than vanilla removes all bragging rights entirely, unless its something that actively makes it more difficult like a kaizo hack or something.That said:>>12610806The devs didn't want the game to be as padded as it was, it was an executive decision to make the collectable aspects of the game as much of a tism target as possible. Compare it to a game like MN64 where you can switch characters anywhere, and the devs used that to incorporate multiple characters abilities more tightly. If Stamper kept his hands off of it, DK64 would have been a much better game.
>>12610947>I was referring more to shit like the MMX5 fix project stopping the game from screeching to a halt with forced dialogue mid platforming.I don't really see this as game changing, that's incredibly slight. It's practically identical to my bunnyhood example.
>>12610947>it was an executive decision to make the collectable aspects of the game as much of a tism target as possible.Then the game isnt meant to be 100%'d except for autists and they are trying to tell you you should play for the clear instead
>>12610947DK64 isn't a game about switching characters on the fly, that would change the entire dynamic and turn characters into glorified transformations. Each character has specific abilities that abet them into going to certain places and achieving certain things. Flip flopping between them immediately circumvents all of this intentional design. At that point, just go play something else, you do not like DK64 genuinely.
>>12610948You never played MMX5 then. The prompts are frequent, can't be skipped, break all momentum, and the fox just makes them so you have to press a button to trigger them, which was a change made in MMX6 immediately after. Your example increases the speed scale of the player in a game that is focused around a time limit mechanic.
>>12610954My point was more about how the game had to be designed around those sensibilities, so I don't disagree with you. Instead, its more about how it was a forced limitation that was placed on the devs by their boss because he wanted to force the game to be as far apart from Banjo as possible. I don't give a shit about character swap modding either way, just pointing out that those types of decisions aren't always the will of the people actually working on the games.
>>12610752Nah I think it's cool asf
>>12610964>sensibilitiesAnyone who uses this word doesn't understand game design
>>12610971Respectfully, go fuck yourself.
>>12610959The time limits aren't a big deal, lets be honest. They aren't at the forefront, they're only in like one optional sidequest.
>>12610964But Banjo Tooie has the exact same dynamic with Banjo, Kazooie, Mumbo, a transformation, and Banjo and Kazooie together. 5 characters, no swapping on the fly.
>>12610752No not really. They are ultimately still playing DK64, just with less backtracking. Something like a randomized changes games way more, in a way that I like i should add, but still fundamentally a lot more than what people do with the DK64 mod.
>>12610752In general I think people have become psychotic when it comes to "QoL" or "fixing the game according to modern standards".Just Play. The. Game.Play it the way it was released and enjoyed originally.>Nooo but I have to backtrack! It's boring!I bet all that "backtracking" takes less time than it takes you researching and applying all the fanhack patches to make the game "playable" because you have youtuber essayist syndrome and you think you are a better game developer than the original devs.DK64 is long as there's a lot of backtracking but nobody is forcing you to speedrun it. It's fun revisiting levels with different characters. My only real complaint are some of the mini games (not the arcade DK one, that one is brilliant and I applaud Rare for making it mandatory to be able to beat 1 loop of DK)
>>12611121Still part of the core game rules, which is my point, and why I referred to it as a light cheat.>>12611128Yes, but the decision was heavily influenced to differentiate it from Banjo 1. Stamper's meddling in the game's design has been talked about plenty.
>>12610748Why are autists so obsessed with 100% clearing a game they are clearly not enjoying? It's not 1999 anymore, they have easy access to infinite games. Nobody is holding a gun to their head and forcing them to 100% Donkey Kong 64.
>>12610752The game is a fucking abysmal experience. If people mod it and somehow get some enjoyment out of this demoralizing piece of shit, more power to them.
>>12610752No and I think you're an infinitely bigger faggot for getting upset than the people whi aren't having fun until they mod the game. Life is too short to do things in your leisure time that you don't enjoy, you already have work for that.
>>12611309it's not that bad if you play it as intended>>12611317play an entirely different game then instead of trying to transition a game you don't like into a game you like
>>12611369Or how about mind your own fucking business because you're not the police of how people play games. If it bothers you so much then maybe you should apply to become a SomethingAwful mod because your mindset would be perfect there.
>I played FF1 and 2>they're overrated I don't get the appeal
>>12611379Much like DQ7, I have in fact played every version of FF1 and still find it massively overrated.
>>12610974You don't fucking talk to me like that
>>12611176They aren't playing DK 64, they're playing an entirely new game where you transform instantanously and never have to remember jack diddly and or squat. You're part of the crowd I despise. Fuck you.
>>12611198The only minigame I dislike is beaver bother, and that's because we know the collision is broken and doesn't behave the way the developers would have ever intended.
>>12611231It resulted in a better game, Tooie is quite better.
>>12611307I can't stand the new retro enthusiast crowd on youtube that insist older games are so much better, but then they proceed to leverage save states and rewind to finish all of them.
>>12611309>>12611317Fuck you. You're just twisting a game that I genuinely enjoyed into a facsimile of itself and enjoying the hollowed-out-enough shell of it to appease yourself. It's very hard to be as big a faggot as you two.
>>12610971retard and a nerd at the same time
>>12611198>not the arcade DK one, that one is brilliant So many memories of this more than the actual game lol
>>12611309kek good bait. I beat this game as an 8 year old without any of that crap just fine. zoomers are retarded
>>12611375Nta, you're not wrong. Playing a game and enjoying it isn't the same as actually beating it.
>>12610752>Does it rub anyone else the wrong way when someone seems to genuinely like or enjoy the game, but they modded it to make it play fundamentally different?no. you would have to be incredibly autistic for this to bother you. what's wrong with making a game more fun?
>>12611762when you also try to claim that you beat the game and not a modded version? everythingif you acknowledge that you beat a rom hack that's not the original game? nothing, have fun
>>12611762>what's wrong with making a game more fun?fuck you, you don't actually like DK 64
>>12611762Good bait kek
>yeah i love [early fps] with kb+m, 1080p, and constant 60 fps!
>>12611309Basically everybody who reviewed it back then, magazine or audience, would like to have a word with you about that.You can of course be the special little snowflake but that does not change the fact that the game was basically universally beloved. Could be that all of them are wrong and you right, but statistically very unlikely.
>>12611969I don't give a fuck, I've actually played through it.
I'm playing through Earthbound with a mod that improves the menuing and makes it context specific like most other JRPGsIs this as bad as quick switching in DK64?
>>12612062I think no, but at I also think that mod is unnecessary
>>12610752It rubs me the wrong way but the line between light modding and an overhaul blurs if they don't go all the way with it. So it becomes a context based thing.
>>12612062Quick switching in DK64 is basically cheating. Dunno about Earthbound.
>>12612062The issue with the DK64 mod is that it fundamentally changes the game. I have never played Earthbound, but it sounds like a quality of life mod that does not change the core experience of the game.
>>12610947>The devs didn't want the game to be as padded as it was, it was an executive decision to make the collectable aspects of the game as much of a tism target as possible. Compare it to a game like MN64 where you can switch characters anywhere, and the devs used that to incorporate multiple characters abilities more tightly. If Stamper kept his hands off of it, DK64 would have been a much better game.Source?
>>12611309You didnt beat the game.
>>12610769The OP is saying literally the opposite though, disregarding the basic function, loving to mindlessly roam around inside the gameworld (ie. the art).
>>12612448A retrospective with the game's director made a point to call him out specifically on it: https://www.gamesradar.com/making-of-donkey-kong-64/There are also plenty of autistic behind the scenes videos that bring it up as well as rumblings from other devs if you don't feel like reading. Going back to the original point, what ends up in the final product isn't always what the devs intended for a game. Not retro, but most people who play New Vegas know who Josh Sawyer is for releasing rebalancing mods for the game, and he was the director for it. As much as>just like the devs intendedis a meme, in realistic cases it can occasionally be true.
>>12612635>It added another layer of richness to the discoverability of each new character, and gives them both a share of the spotlight and puzzle solving aspect that feels quite fresh," Andreas said. "The expectation was that, once you enter a new area, you'd traverse it with one character and see a different puzzle element. You'd think 'Oh, what would happen if Chunky Kong was here?' and it allowed the player to predict what puzzles they'd have to face with different characters and, in theory, keep the game fresh."Nice self-own
>>12612665I wasn't arguing against that, which is why I kept emphasizing my initial point, illiterate-kun. My MN64 example was in reference to how a game designed around quick swapping would have worked if it was intentional design. Stuff like the color coded bananas would have been designed for that type of game and not one where swapping was limited, while the core of the game was designed around doing so.
>>12612670 (me)while the core of the game was designed around That limitation.>just to clarify, in case you continue to misinterpret the point.
>>12612491Do you have a reading comprehension problem
>play Mario 64>killed by lava>kicked out of the level>"WHAT THE FUCK I HAVE TO PLAY THE LEVEL AGAIN? THAT'S BAD GAME DESIGN!">hack the game so Mario can't die>make a 10 hour youtube video essay coping about how it totally wasn't cheating
>>12610752It absolutely bothers me. People equating any sort of hack or modification with the original experience pisses me off and unfortunately I seem to be in the minority. I'm a diehard purist and I have a huge setup full of original hardware, basically every mainstream console of the last 50 years, and the craziest I get with hacks and mods is flash carts, old school cheating devices like Game Genie/GameShark/Action Replay, Region unlock carts/discs, and softmods that let me play stuff that I otherwise can't get my hands on. I even despise hard mods and reshells because at that point you're altering the console on a fundamental level and the whole point of original hardware is to get the original experience. Hard mods completely defeat the point and the same goes for hacks/mods. You can't play a hack or a mod and say you finished the game it's based on. Hacks and mods are for people who already played the game as intended and are looking for a different experience for their next run. The amount of people who will play some mod and say they beat the original game is infuriating but chock it up to me being a diehard purist for thinking these people are retarded.
>>12613285Maybe you're realizing nobody gives a shit about your purism and it doesn't magically elevate you into being a cool dude worth any respect.
>>12613305>t. didn't beat the game
>>12613305Seething poser can't beat games as the developers intended. You know how much of a little bitch you look like having to change the rules to win? What a faggot.
>>12613329>>12613341Performative
>>12613351cope
>>12613351Lmao, just throwing around buzzwords at this point. I accept your concession you fucking faggot. Loved how you never offered your viewpoint and just bitched and moaned when an actual gamer shat all over your retarded, inauthentic playstyle.
>>12613305It does make him cooler than you or me though.
IT'S OUT ON NSO NOW
>>12610748You just need to pace yourself. If you are getting bored just go to the next area and collect everything you missed later, or better yet take a break from playing the game.
>>12612062>context specific menuingDoesn't that already kind of exist in the form of the left shoulder button? If it does more I don't think anything is lost.
