>"N64 can't run 2D fighte... ack!"https://youtu.be/6kJm-S7EqIc
Ok.
who said that? Did I imagine KI Gold existing?
>>12667691>N64 can't run 2D fighte...No one said this. N64 had none because it was an outdated genre and Street Fighter was already dead and irrelevant by the time of its release.
>>12667691>emulating a port of a port
Let's not pretend N64 can run 3D, let alone 2D. There's barely any 60 fps games on the console.
>>12667709The N64 can’t run any games. If you turn it on it just shows you a black screen.
I thought it was a homebrew port but it's just Sodium64 (the snes emulator).
>>12667736>it just shows you a black screen.hidden gem. snoys dont know.
>>12667691>fake 64 bit console can barely play a 16 bit gamekek
>>12667691HIRE!!!!!!!!
>>12667691There's an actual 2d n64 game, but I can't remember what it was, well there's this one, but there's also another one
>>12667881
>>12667691>>"N64 can't run 2D fighte... ack!"No one has said this and /vr/ has had multiple extremely lengthy threads that have broken down in detail that the N64 *could* have had good ports of games like X-men vs Street Fighter.
>>12667698>Street Fighter was already dead and irrelevant by the time of its release.Street Fighter Alpha 2 came out the same year as the N64 and was a humongous, AAA-tier release in the time period. It was the #1 earning arcade game in Japan for the year. So a port of SFA2 to N64 would have been a pretty big deal.
>>12667819>R-Type Gaiden
>>12667691>"N64 can't run 2D fighte... ack!"its so funny imagining the person that kills themselves because they thought the N64 couldnt run 2D fighting games.
>>12667691High quality 2D game require huge amount of space for all the assets,animations,sprites...Unlike neo geo ,N64 cartridge were very limited in terms of size especially at the beginning where 32 and 64 MB cart didn't existIt just was the worst choice for 2D games at the time,that's why there is so few of them of course now you can have cartridge with more space than CD so you could make great 2D games on the N64 but it's anachronism
>>12668064There's plenty of sprite fighting games on the n64 where the characterrs don't move in 3d dimensions, and they're just 2d sprites, but the devs made the background 3d to add depth
>>12668064if not for the tiny size of the carts it could have been the best of the gen at 2D, thanks to the shared up-to-8MiB memory, where you can use as much as you want as vram, along with fast cartridge transfers.but yea, tons of 2d animations uses tons of space. real arcade 2d games were not small.cd's have tons of space, but they're way too slow for real-time swapping and so you have only the systems' vram to work with between loading screens. it's why you end up with things like psx games where no stages or characters are cut, but animation frames are cut, because there's tons of room for stages/characters on cd, but not much room once you're actually playing a stage
>>12668054OP invents people like that because it makes his point dramatic, whatever that point is.
>>12668037>It was the #1 earning arcade game in Japan for the yearThat's not saying much because arcades were already dead
>>12668275>because arcades were already dead
>>12668031The threads have broken down in detail that the N64 *couldn't* have had good ports of games like X-men vs Street Fighter though
>>12667798kek
>>12667698SF was still strong until 99, playstation sold mad copies of SF games.
>>12668643Their arguments such as small texture cache were always refuted.
>>12667819YEEE OUCH!!
>>12668864IIRC the argument was texture cache with slow memory. Neo Geo and CPS can stream sprites directly from the ROM. N64 can't
>>12667691>looks inside>it's just a SNES gameWake me up when N64 runs an actual CPS2 game
>>12668865oh shit i forgot about that. how come all the most unique games only get released in japan?
>>12667819My favorite first-person shooter: Virtual On.
>>12667709People have recompiled Mario 64 and made mods that get the game running at 60fps with real hardware and 4mb expansion.
>>12667819Terrible bait.
>>12668891The American market only bought sports game, mascot platformers, and shooters. Anything anime was “gay and lame”. Anything weird or quirky was “gay and lame”. Having box art that was cute was also a death sentence.
>>12668891Because they knew burgers would have thought it looks gay
>>12667691Where's the 3 point filtering?
>>12668954>>12668956it sucks for me since i'm not american but still in a western, english-speaking country. while i don't have any statistics to back it up, it seemed like games mostly had to be localised in america before they'd bother localising it to europe (and other countries, i'm not in europe). like it's very rare that i've found a JP game released in JP and EU but not US, i can't think of any off the top of my head
>>12668958there wouldn't be any filtering for texels that match up with screen pixels on any system
>>12668947>peoplemore like person. not him but kaze has certainly proven the n64 has a lot more potential than was seen during the n64's life. it's just a very difficult console to get the most out of it. even all the blurriness is actually optional and just not turned off by most if not all developers.
>>12668968>a JP game released in JP and EU but not USThat was a lot more common of PS1 and PS2, since those consoles were extremely popular in EuropeFor example Forbidden Siren 2 released in Japan and Europe but not in the US
>>12668947>>12668971or rather it's a very strange console to get the most out of it. like the optimisations you'd do on a typical, more "pc-like" system just doesn't suit the n64. you have to understand the differences to make the right decisions. he describes many ways in which sm64 did what look like optimisations that didn't suit how the n64 actually worked (most notably the bottleneck is more memory-bound than cpu-bound so doing more work on the cpu to reduce work on memory transfers is often beneficial) so not even nintendo did it right. admittedly it's not very fair on them to say this regarding sm64 as it was probably their first project on the n64, but still
>>12668972Sony of America was afraid of anime and 2d games during the ps2 era for some reason.
>>12668995I feel like it's more 2D than anime considering that ps2 had Persona 3 and 4
>>12668956not just gay, paedophilic.Princess Maker 2 FINALLY has an official English release, but they got rid of the nice pixel art sprites (it's all upscaled line art). but apparently that was a hard sell back in the day, if you've ever read the story behind it.
>>12668954that game IS gay AND lame.japs can make some cool games too, but they also tend to make a lot of weird fucking bullshit like this. who tf wants to play some VN little sister-raising simulator?weird coomers, thats whoand thats generally who it was made by too
>>12669561weird coomer website
>>12667696And Rakuga Kids.
>>12668891Translation is risky. Just because a game was a financial success in Japan doesn't mean that it will be a safe bet in America or anywhere else.Ryuu ga Gotoku 1, a huge hit in Japan. 740,000 copies sold. Sega localizes it, shells out money to hire Mark Hamill to play Majima, renames it to Yakuza. Huge flop, sells only 30,000 in the US.Arc the Lad Collection, even bigger hit. Totals 3,180,288 copies sold in Japan. Working Designs localizes it. Sells 51,665. That's not a typo; it didn't even manage 2% of the Japanese figures. Working Designs goes out of business not too long after.The American market is fickle and nothing is a safe bet.I've played Wonder Project J2. I like Wonder Project J2.But if I had the choice, I would not risk my job on Wonder Project J2.That's the reason.
>>12669370Her teeny mouth scrunched up really close to her tiny nose just looks so disgusting, those are not nice pixel art sprites. To have nice pixel art you need an art style that is not complete garbage. The girl needs to look at least 60% human and no more than 20% insectoid, and what I am seeing there is more of a 40/30 split. (The remaining 30% is grey alien, evident in her bizarrely huge and lightbulb-shaped cranium.)
>>12669795>Working Designs goes out of business not too long after.And nothing of value was lost.
>>12668878>the argument was texture cache with slow memory.And that argument was largely refuted.
tl;dr for why X-men Vs Street Fighter 64 was possible-life bars, counter, super meter, hit sparks and some background elements could all be replaced with polygons to save memory space. This was done in the PS1 release of Street Fighter Alpha 3. -Sprites could be sliced into smaller tiles to overcome texture cache size, at the expense of additional CPU cycles, which the N64 has plenty of compared to the CPS2. -the game could run at the baseline "normal" speed from the CPS2 arcade, giving a few more milliseconds per animation to swap textures-Capcom had the know-how and political strings to either write their own custom micro-code for the N64 cpu from scratch or to get Nintendo to tell them how to do it. This could turn off the N64 AA filter, allowing the game to look better and less blurry.
>>12669948eh, i got used to it. a lot of 80s/90s anime was that way, anyway. personally i think the Chrono Trigger artwork is pretty hideous, but i know that's heresy to many.
>>12670279Or how about, Capcom knew the N64 was shit so they didnt bother, and the N64 is fucking putrid an anemic for these type of games, so shut the fuck up already with your garbageposting about this and that animu n64 game there will never be on homebrew threads you tranny asshole!
>>12670279>Sprites could be sliced into smaller tiles to overcome texture cache sizeThanks for showing you've never looked into how any of these games work. All of Capcom's CPS1 and CPS2 games already have their sprites "sliced into smaller tiles" because the original arcade hardware only supports 1 Sprite size of 16x16. So all the character sprites you see are actually made up of multiple smaller 16x16 tiles. This setup was carried over to at least the Saturn ports as if you look at a memory dump of VRAM and the RAM carts you see they're filled with 16x16 4bpp tiles for each sprite.Now could the N64 have handled a perfect port of Capcom's CPS2 fighters? Most likely. The real issue would be cartridge size. The Arcade ROMs for those games were in the 20-32MB range, some even higher. Releasing N64 carts in those sizes in 1996-1997 when those games were coming out in arcades and on Saturn and PS1 would have been stupid expensive. So they probably would have had to make cuts to get it to fit on a smaller cartridge.
32/64mb carts were released way too late in the console's lifespan
>>12671013What was the first 64 MB game anyway? RE2?A Street Fighter Alpha 3 port in 1999/2000 would have been nice and wouldn't have been later than other contemporary systems. The arcade version of SFA3 is 44 MB, so a N64 port would have been possible
>>12668956>>12668954>why didn't the rest of the world get these games?>focuses solely on AmericaEven Euros subconsciously know they're not worth considering
>>12671065I'm not even a Euro, I'm a LeafWe're focusing on North America here because it's the only region where the N64 was successfulIn NA, the N64 only got outsold by 3:2 by the PS1In Europe, it's about 5:1
>>12670262It wasn't
>>12671061there's only 3 64M n64 games i can find;RE2: 1999/11/16stadium 2: 2000/12/14conker: 2001/03/05also worth noting that a couple games were 320Mbit (40M), ogre battle 64 and paper mario, they could have gotten away with that probably, especially since the n64 has a pretty powerful cpu that allows for stronger compression to be used
>>12671447>especially since the n64 has a pretty powerful cpu that allows for stronger compression to be usedThere's only so many compression formats that really work well for 4bpp tile graphics, and those were all pretty much mastered in the 16-bit era. Throwing more CPU at it isn't going to really help here.This seems to be a common cope thrown out when discussing N64 ROM size limitations, but most fail to realize is that in most cases the games being discussed are already using compression of some kind.
>>12670971You lack critical reading skills. What does "smaller tiles" mean in the original sentence? It means whoever wrote the sentence already knew about the first tiles.
>>12670872meds
>>12667713get lost David
>>12672865The original sentence said "The sprites could be sliced up into smaller tiles". That doesn't imply the sprites are already cut up into tiles. If I say "I'm going to take this apple and cut it up into smaller pieces" it doesn't imply the apple was already cut up into pieces to begin with. The person clearly didn't know how these games actually work. A lot of idiot armchair devs truly think sprites on these older systems and arcade hardware are literally just a single image and don't realize they're actually made up of multiple smaller sprites.
How is this done? Writing directly to the N64 frame buffer?
>>12673446>That doesn't imply the sprites are already cut up into tilesYou're an idiot.
>>12667696Or MK Trilogy(not that it's fantastic, but it's there.
>>12674674It's a shame it came that early, bigger storage would be better.
>>12674663>You're an idiot.And if I say "I'm going to cut these apples into smaller pieces" is it implied that the apples are already cut up into pieces? The answer is no it isn't implied. The phrase can be used to refer to whole apples being cut up for the first time just as much as it can refer to already cut up apples being cut up even further. Odds are the person was referring to the sprites as a whole as most people don't realize the sprites they see in most games are actually made up of multiple smaller sprites. It's a common misunderstanding with older games like this.
>>12668891I know the 90s and 2000s was a different time, but I would have to think a game where you make a robot girl sweep the floors and cook dinner to get the good ending would have been met with controversy.
>>12674734i'm not sure i understand how that would be controversial
>>12667819>linkle liver and dragon valor are way better than OOT, t-trust me bro
>>12667819Worms is also on the N64. Garbage list.
>>12676645wait really? oh shit. fucking love me some worms armageddon.not that i think it couldn't run it, i just really never knew any worms was on n64
>>12667691>"N64 can't run 2D fighte... ack!"nobody ever said this>>12667696>who said thatthe voices in the schizo's head>>12673767since everything on n64 is a polygon, you setup a polygon to whatever size and texture your "tile" or "sprite" onto it. this won't work with gpu microcode that antialiases everything (it'll look dreadful) so that needs to be configured to disable antialiasing. that's about it.
>>12667709It was an era of prioritising graphics over performance.Couldn't convey performance very well with print magazines, after all.
>>12676686It just so happens what PSX and Saturn don't struggle with the same problem, there's plenty of 60 fps games on both.
>>12676686>It was an era of prioritising graphics over performance.lets be completely real here, NO 5th gen console was powerful enough that most games could do what they wanted to comfortably at a high framerate. the 5th gen, as much as i hate to admit it being someone who really got into consoles with the 5th gen and who hates low frame rates, was the one that introduced/normalised low framerates (i.e. 30fps or less), just because they had such limited 3D capabilities that in most cases where you have average-skill developers, just getting recognisable graphics at 30fps was hard enough, and the cost to hit 60fps was too great outside of specific scenarios.like you could do 640x480i 60fps games on the playstation, but at the cost of everything else. you can basically forget textures and gouraud shading, etc. only specifically-styled games could get away with it
>>12676686>>12676714oh and; you are right that advertising back then was more print than video. very fair point.
>>12676687>It just so happens what PSX and Saturn don't struggle with the same problemnah they all suffer from similar problems>>12676717>you are right that advertising back thenyes. and things we see print were often vastly different to what you see with your own eyes
>>12676714Yes, that's pretty similar to what F-Zero X did to accomplish its 60 FPS for 30 racers simultaneously, rely on very low resolution textures and minimal detail.It only output at 320x240 resolution though, and even then the actual gameplay does the same thing as Star Fox SNES where it has black borders for an effective 296x208 resolution (if I checked that correctly).
>>12676723Motorhead runs at 60 on ps1 and looks better than F-Zero X
>>12676723(i'm not >>12676725)yea, 60fps was not a given during the 5th gen. most games weren't for a good reason. it is interesting than more games were higher resolution on the psx than n64, but to my knowledge it's mainly because the n64 memory subsystem was really difficult to work around. the psx had a more traditional memory system especially with work and video memory being physically separate.it's not all sunshine and rainbows of course, higher resolutions had benefits like less egregious vertex "wobble" on psx, an issue that the n64 doesn't have. 640x480i60 was extremely rare for the 5th gen, shit, it wasn't common for the 6th gen. i only know of one psx game to do that, but there might have been maybe one other one
>>12676728both devil dice and iS run at 640x480 60 on the mighty PSXN64 could never
>>12676728I'm aware of Music 2000 running at 640x480 resolution, but that's tracker software as a music creation tool rather than a game.
>>12676736i know there's a bunch of 640x480 games (programs, as it were) and 60fps games, but both at the same time is another level.i've seen 60fps n64 games, and i've seen 640x480 n64 games, but both at the same time? now that's something i have not seen. i'm sure it's possible, but how it compares with the psx is the question anybody who cares would want to know.even as a psx enjoyer i do believe the n64 has more potential (storage space aside), but actually using it all is real fucking cunt, as they say.
>>12676736it's not a tracker. it's a sequencer.
>>12668037Yeah but they ported it to snes anyway.
>>12667691What happend to this place? Do you guys remember when we have old pc threads, console "generals". There was fun slow discussion. Now we're no better than /v/
>>12676686I wouldn't call the n64 pushing graphics I'd say it was pushing progress
>>12674674MK Trilogy was great for the no load times and 3v3 modes, if they had just went for the bigger cart it could've been on par with the CD releases.
>>12669370Those graphics are from the Refine version which has existed for over 20 years.
>>12667819>zelda oot and MM are one game>ys 1 2 are not>mk trilogy on playstation instead of 64
>>12667819>fake 64 bit consolei found out recently the official sdk for the n64 can't produce 64bit binaries
