Could the 64DD had saved the N64?
could banning zoomshits save /vr/?
No.
>>12670452i'm 43 years old
>>12670454Post your hand, I'll be able to tell how old you are
>>12670454Then learn how to make a thread about something that people can respond to and interact with without resorting to ragebait memery.
>>12670460>>12670463why are you so mad? i only ask a simple question, the 64DD had much potential to save the N64.
>>12670454Then you know better
>>12670467Is this some weird ironic role play? I’m not drunk enough for that yet. No one would ever think the 64DD would be profitable, especially outside of Japan.
>>12670467fuck off kid
>>12670470>>12670475>>12670479We're here to discuss the 64DD, please don't get off topic.
They should have just combined the 64dd tech with the regular console initially and remove the cart slot
>>12670451imagine if they could fit nights into dreams onto it...
>>12670451Save it from what? It was highly successful and influential unlike the Saturn
>>12670585the saturn was successful in japan and aged the best, the N64 aged like shit and doesnt have nights into dreams
>>12670564>64DDWhat's there to say? It was idiotic, no mom is buying their kid an add the price of a comsole to play 5 copies of mario paint, mario golf, and F-zero. You can "what if" all day "what if it got a new great Zelda game instead of MM" but the truth is it was shit. It was a bad idea, and they seemed to know it.People liked the Playstation because the CDs made it cheap (devs paid fewer royalty fees), why would 3rd parties want to go with Nintendo's high royalty fees on a system that people will have to pay more money for an add-on just to have the ability to play shitty games?
Could becoming straight save OP's anus?
>>12670451No, if it was brought out as the n64 and reduced cost and limitations who knows how it could have done.Invent a time machine and find out in alternate timeline.
>>12670919
>>12670451I think it could have, a lot of people were excited for it and shops were willing to give space to N64 accessories in 1998. I think N64 was new enough that people would be willing to pay $100 to get more games. I think after Dreamcast they saw it as pointless. I think it was around the release of DK64 that people started to get sour on N64, just hold stuff like that back and put it on DD, maybe have the 4mb ram come with it.
>>12670451>Could the 64DD had saved the N64?Potentially it could have if it had been released very early on in the N64's life and worldwide, instead of only in Japan and at the very end of its lifespan as it actually was.This would have addressed the major downside the N64 had: limited storage space on cartridges. While still not as much as CDs, it was a massive increase over the cartridges. If it had come early then the N64 might have had some actual RPGs on it, for example.
>>12670451I dont think the 64DD as an addon could have, no. But I definitely think if they went with optical media from the get-go it would have done great. Jury's out on if it would beat the Playstation or not but I think Nintendo would have had a much stronger generation.
>>12670451Actually, cancelling the 64DD would've saved the N64. All add-ons do is fracture the userbase. Nintendo would've had more money and manpower for games, the thing the system desperately needed.
>>12671051>Actually, cancelling the 64DD would've saved the N64.For all intents and purposes it was cancelled. Yeah, it did come out in Japan technically, but only 15,000 units were sold there and it was never released anywhere else. And this came at the end of its lifespan so nothing was fractured by it. The only thing is Nintendo teased and hyped it up for years. Maybe they shouldn't have done that, but hindsight is 20/20.
No. It was coming out way too late in the life of the 64. The Gamecube and PS2 were already too close to release. It was also an expensive peripheral that required you to buy more shit again after buying it and there is plenty of precedent, before then and now, that consumers don't like buying add ons for consoles. Maybe if it had released with the console as a built in accessory. It probably would have hurt the gamecube more than anything else by either delaying it or cutting into sales
>>12670451>let's put the expansion port on the bottom of the console so that any accessory we could conceivably add to it will be as wide and probably as tall as the console itself, making manufacturing costs will be as expensive as possibleI love the N64 but this was legitimately retarded
>>12672868>I love the N64 but this was legitimately retardedThe NES, the SNES, and even the Gamecube all have their expansion ports on the bottom of the console. Nintendo obviously didn't consider this a problem because they kept doing it for as long as they added expansion ports to their consoles.The funny thing is, for as bad as the Gamecube sold, it actually got good use out of its expansion port with the GBA player, modem, and whatever else. In contrast, the NES, and SNES sold far better but their expansion ports did not even get used outside of Japan. Then again, neither did the N64's expansion port. Only the Gamecube out of all Nintendo's consoles actually got any usage out of its expansion port (outside of Japan).
>>12671038It would have helped massively with third party support.Nintendo's cartridges were prohibitively expensive and had to be over-ordered in advance, which usually ended up screwing over developers. The really insane thing is that while ROM space restrictions to just 64MB was a technical restriction there was absolutely no reason to extend it to the 64DD and yet NCL did it to discourage developers from dropping the cartridges entirely because of it.What happened is that N64 versions had worse graphics (because they were over-compressed even though the hardware was superior) and overpriced by at least a $10 markupAnd even if a company wanted to do a N64 exclusive they would be losing, for example Bangai-Oh N64 had a very small 10k print run because it's too unprofitable to do more copies, and they rushed out a dreamcast cd port just to recoup their investment. Even Wonder Project J2 had cancelled plans for a PS1 port to recoup losses.The baffling thing is that 64DD technology was ready as soon as 1996 and held back for no good reason. They could have reissued the base N64 with 64dd disc, extension pack and cart support in late 1996, with an option to buy these separately, and avoided pissing off their partners so hard they lost dragon quest vii.Something equally as baffling is the save management. Instead of a unified system program nintendo left it up to third parties to do random shit hidden behind cheat codes to format or mess with saves from other games.Nintendo also had system fonts for the n64 that would have reduced rom storage issues for cartridges but for some reason made it a n64-exclusive feature
bump
>>12672892you know why the GC got use out its expansion ports? because the ports were recessed into the mold, meaning the accessories didn't have to be as big as the fucking console.>muh NES and SNESthe fact these consoles were successful doesn't make this design choice any less retarded
>>12670451Add-ons were always a stupid idea for any console that tried to implement them. You're basically segmenting your entire playerbase and losing potential customers who would otherwise buy your games. Half the reason Sega failed was from putting dumb shit like the Sega CD and the 32X on the market instead of focusing on their base console
>>12670451A fundamentally retarded idea that did nothing but damage the console as Nintendo also kept delaying it, so the games originally designed for it were also delayed.
>>12673392>you know why the GC got use out its expansion ports? because the ports were recessed into the mold, meaning the accessories didn't have to be as big as the fucking console.That may be true with the modem, but the GBA player was as big as the console. I do not see how this is a problem in any way whatsoever though. For one thing the Gamecube is small anyway so who cares. Second, how does this look awful? It doesn't.>the fact these consoles were successful doesn't make this design choice any less retardedAn expansion port has to be somewhere. The bottom of it is actually the least worst place for it to be, so the console can stack seamlessly onto whatever the addon is. In contrast, the Sega Genesis has its expansion off to the side, and as a consequence the Sega CD attaches to the side of the Genesis. Now there's a failed attachment that looked ugly and took up a lot of space. Basically doubled the width of the Genesis and also required its own power adapter.Even though Nintendo seldom used it, their Expansion port placement was correct. In contrast, Sega used their expansion port heavily, but put it in a bad spot.
>>12670451No, because it was a poorly designed add-on that didn't significantly improve anything. Nintendo should have simply used discs from the start if anything. All this is moot though because the N64 was successful anyways so die in a fire.
>>12670451Could have done a saverino Op but no gaems no saves no dialbro no saves just star craft in the end it seems
>>12670451as an add-on? nope. integrated from the start? probably not, it would have made the console more expensive and it would still lack compared to cd-roms in terms of space.
>>12673691>didn't significantly improve anything.It does improve the limited storage issue. It also introduced a real-time clock and the ability for users to have lots of writable storage which made a lot of new types of genres of games possible that wasn't possible on the stock N64 hardware. It came too late but it would have been a game changer if it had come a couple years earlier.
>>12673732>it would still lack compared to cd-roms in terms of space.Even though the space is less than CD it is still on the same order of magnitude, and not an order of magnitude less like cartridges were. Also, you are omitting the fact that unlike CD this storage space is rewritable. This makes a lot of new genres of games possible. It gives players a lot of space to play around with and do their own stuff. That's impossible with CDs which are read-only.It became moot in the next generation when consoles started to have HDDs and the like, but at this time this was a new concept.
>>12674530they're literally an order of magnitude smaller.64DD discs are 64MiB in size (same as the largest carts made for the 64). that's over 10x smaller than a cd-rom.
>>12673732it would have made a big difference if it was there from the start i think. 64M wasn't practical in a cart in 1996, way too expensive. the 3 games that used 64M carts were from 1999, 2000, and 2001.a major advantage of cd's over carts is that a cd is 650MB no matter what, it costs the same to press a 1MB game as it does a 600MB game. carts on the other hand cost more if the game is bigger, so there's a strong incentive to keep game sizes down. if the 64 used DD discs instead, games could all be up to 64M in size without additional cost from the beginning. still couldn't do much streamed music or fmv's but it'd have helped
>>12674558>64DD discs are 64MiB in sizeTurns out you are right. I read the 64DD was based on the same technology as ZIP disks which have storage capacities of 100MB, 250MB, or even 750MB IIRC. For some reason I assumed the 64DD discs would be the same since its based on that same technology, but I guess Nintendo's spin-off of it was much more gimped than I thought.Still, even 64MB is much more than MOST N64 gamepaks had, though towards the end the maximum ones did get to be that large. And lets not forget that N64 carts were expensive as hell, whereas these 64DD disks would have been much cheaper.Too little too late. By the time the 64DD was out, N64 gamepak sizes had improved to where they were about the same anyway. The 64DD was needed early on but it came far too late.
>>12674581>a major advantage of cd's over carts is that a cd is 650MB no matter what, it costs the same to press a 1MB game as it does a 600MB game. carts on the other hand cost more if the game is bigger, so there's a strong incentive to keep game sizes down.This just gives devs the incentive to shove a ton of FMV cutscene filler slop to fill the disc space up that they would not normally otherwise be using. Games from that era were rife with it. Many would argue that wasn't a good thing.Yeah the cartridge space limits sucked, but at the same time it also forced developers to be more scrupulous in how they used it. So that's sorta a good thing in a way. N64 (and the Jaguar too I guess) are the only consoles of that generation which managed to avoid the plague of FMV cutscene slop which swamped all the CD-based systems.
>>12670467esl?
>>12674601The game size differences were overrated.Most PS1 didn't get to use the full 650MB, a lot of it was wasted on the FMVs and 80 minutes max soundtrack, and the rest had a lot of redundant content. For a game with 24 zones that's 24 mini games loaded to RAM each with its duplicate assets and each capped to 1MB. To add insult to injury there's a lot of storage wasted on error correction data, without that you could fit Valkyrie Profile on one disc but it would be a disc that's more failure prone when scratched. Then there's the need to waste even more data so that the files fit on specific sectors that are faster to read otherwise the load times would be unbearable.Without that you could have Castlevania SoTN fit on 40 MB and Silent Hill 1 even without optimisation for the duplicate assets fit on 78 MB.A lot of the FMV slop with ugly early 3D CG was mandated by Sony too otherwise the game would be deemed too primitive and too 2D to deserve their hardware
>>12674601while i know what you mean, fmv was a cool new thing at the time, so even if you're sick of them now, it was at least a nice thing to have then.>at the same time it also forced developers to be more scrupulous in how they used itif there was one fixed size perhaps i'd agree, like if it was one 64MiB cart and that's it, my problem is that it wasn't. perhaps your ideal game would fit in 64MiB, 32MiB with minimal changes, 24MiB with some cuts, 16MiB if you're desperate. oh your publisher is pushing for 12MiB carts to reduce risk? uh...
>>12674982>>12675056oh i do agree/know that most psx games barring fmv and streaming music can fit on an n64 cart. i used to download some game rips back when so i've seen how small they can get. my issue with carts is that you're paying for each megabyte you add to them, so there's a strong incentive to make games as small as possible.
Save it from what? Sure, it sold fewer units than the SNES and PS1, but Nintendo still turned a profit with it. The N64 cartridge format cost them major titles like *Dragon Quest* and *Final Fantasy*; the Zip disk option was a lost cause, too. But it would have allowed for a larger library—including, presumably, action-RPGs like Illusion of Gaia or Secret of Mana—and naturally higher sales, even if it wouldn't have beaten the PlayStation. I mean, I get why the N64 couldn't handle Final Fantasy VII, but I don't quite understand why games like Mana were off the table.
>we missed out on the OoT 64DD expansion pack timeline
Could the Saturn have saved the Saturn if the Saturn were more successful?
>>12676563If Saturn's cartridge slot accepted Mega Drive and Master System games instead of RAM expansions then maybe.
>>12670454Post your cock, I'll be able to tell how old you are
>>12670451>>12670453>>12670463>>12670564>>12670585N64 could use zip-base 100-250mb durable cartridge
>>1267045164DVD would have saved the N64.DVD player, hdmi out, CD quality sound.The PS1 was rather weak in terms of graphics and power, but the CDs meant that you could have 30min of ingame music. Also the relatively cheap production cost of CDs meant that multi-disk games were a thing while N64 was limited to single cartridge games.
>>12670451Did any console disc add-on end up influencing a console's success in any significant way? Genuine question.
>>12676605How old am I?
>>12676937>the CDs meant that you could have 30min of ingame music.playstation games have 3 options for in-game music, cd-da (regular cd music) which is up to 74min (minus what is needed for the game software). mostly older games used this because it takes up a lot of space and you can't load anything else while music is playing. then you have cd-xa adpcm which can do 5.7-11.4 hours (minus game software), then you have sequenced music, of which you can have practically unlimited music since they take up very little space outside of the instruments
>>12670451I've researched the 64DD extensively. The answer is almost definitely not. Nintendo had shot themselves in the foot already by mistreating third party developers and driving them into the hands of Sony.The DD was pushed back multiple times due to the 64 never reaching the sales figures to justify a secondary platform within itself. Of course, there is the potential scenario where we see a relaunch a year or two in that integrates the drive and then you have less of an issue of stocking shelves with the add on and making sure people move over to it.But the n64 has multiple things going against it:>last to make it to market>already a part of a very transitional generation; next gen came fast and the gains were just so massive>third party companies pissed off at Nintendo, Sony cutting insanely good deals for 3rd party devsEven in the ideal world where it launched a year after the 64 with a decent launch lineup, and steady software afterwards. It would never match Playstation, especially not on price. It would always be the generation Nintendo fucked shit up. We would've gotten some good shit thanks to all it's functionalities. But it would not have moved consoles.People get hung up on the 64DD we ended up getting but that was absolutely not the original idea, that was a last minute recoup of dev costs. In reality we never got the DD, just a shell of what may have been.
>>12670454The sad part is that I believe you.
>>12676950PC-Engine's CD Addon was a good success, which is why Sega wanted to do one.
>>12670451Yes
No. The cartridge was one of the best things about the N64.
>Console gets games until 2002>Nintendo is still making consoles to this very dayDoes the N64 really need saving?
>>12678409Success is relative. The PC Engine CD/ DUO sold less than the N64 and only slightly more than Mega Drive in Japan.
>>12676738The disks were 64mbs, maybe if given more time they could manufacture larger sizes like zip discs but nobody was developing games for it and 4 months later Sony released a console that used discs that could store up to 4.7 gbs, and later over 9gbs.
