The best mechanic ever invented is absolutely the Active Time Battle system, the original NES Final Fantasy games are great for their D&D rule set but the SNES games with combat always moving making every battle more demanding on the player to be fast and focused and always come up with strategies on the fly is one of the best things ever added, no game mechanic since has been as game changing as ATB.What do other anons think? Do you prefer your JRPGs be slow paced and allow you to stall for as long as needed before making a turn or do you like the battle to be constantly moving?
>the best mechanic ever invented is the chess clock
>>12674185>oversimplifying things will sure show him!you're clearly way to low IQ to even be on this site, or underaged.
I didn't like it
>>12674190To add: I find myself waiting for the stupid counter to finish instead of actually playing the game. Idk if I'm doing something wrong but it's fucking annoying and pointless.
>>12674194>>12674190/thread
>>12674190>>12674194>>12674214horrific samefag
One of the worst things to hit JRPGs. Thankfully it's pretty much only a Final Fantasy thing.
>>12674028Rebirth > 10 > 12 > 8 > 3when it comes to combat
>>12674220filtered>>12674223>Rebirthnot retro
It’s my favorite RPG battle system. Unfortunately square had copyright on it until relatively recently and they made 7-9 too slow and easy. Can be ameliorated with a speed boost.
>>12674217>Csi: Mongolian basket weaving Fucking dork, it says "to add". Either this entire board is retarded or you're the same dumbass from the other thread
>>12674228>they copyrighted itGood, that shit won't be ruining any other games
>>12674232posted on a phone and then replied to himself on PC
What ATB brought to the table:>wait for the scorpion's tail to go down before attacking>wait for the snail to come out of its shell before attacking>wait for the mist dragon to come out again before attackingTruly an amazing mechanic.
>>12674237>t. filtered ranjeesh
>>12674187>NOOOOO IT'S DEEPER THAN THAT...BECAUSE...BECAUSE...I SAID IT IS!!!FFfags continue to be retarded as always
>>12674237Consider FF I vs FF VII. Toward the end of VII a “round” of turns for every character and enemy takes like 4 seconds where you’re slowly picking options and watching it all play out slowly. In ATB the actions are playing out AS you’re choosing the rest of the party’s options. I really don’t see how anyone wouldn’t like it, I like full turn-based too but ATB was magic.
>>12674249>Toward the end of VII a “round” of turns for every character and enemy takes like 4 seconds where you’re slowly picking options and watching it all play out slowly.>… play out slowly … “in FF1.” I if you don’t get the implication.
>>12674249>>12674251So FF7 becomes FF1 in the end game
>>12674249>In ATB the actions are playing out AS you’re choosing the rest of the party’s optionsMost ATB games completely pause the ATB bar charge when animations are happening so if you're not specifically delaying your own actions until someone else's bar is charged that's not happening.
>>12674236Yep. Kek.
>>12674247Chess clock doesn't affect things like HP regen or poison damage over time. Checkmate.
I thought ATB was fun in 7 because they actually made use of it throughout with various boss mechanics and it felt pretty chaotic by the end. It was largely superfluous in 4-6 outside of like, the one or two fights per game that draw your attention to it. Haven't played 8 and 9 yet.I still like classic turn-based more overall but 7's application made the game stand out and made for a lot of memorable moments of scrambling to make sure I held on during bosses.
>>12674247you intentionally oversimplified and got a basic concept wrong and have the gaul to call anyone retarded, just kill yourself lol
>>12674028ATB is total shit. If the fight is difficult enough that you have to think the enemy is going to out DPS you by lapping your turns while you think. Which it never is. The theory is there that you're punished for taking too long but the system was never tested because all the games with ATB are easy as shit. In practice, ATB defaults to spamming your strongest ability and idling while nothing happens when your turn isn't up yet. And then pausing the game in the 1-2% of superboss battles where reaction time getting to the inner menu matters after you see what ability they used. CTB fixed the shit out of Itoi's crackpot bullshit. Guy was totally along for the ride coasting on the work of more talented men.
>>12674302>HP regen and poison>worth anything in FF games>>12674321>NOOOOOOOO NOOOO KILL YOURSELF FF IS THE BEST IT LITERALLY INVENTED TIME PASSING!Retarded
>>12674350>retard has no response and keeps dilatingdumbass faggot
>>12674352>RETARD TRANNY FAGGOT FUCK YOUFF faggots continue to be subhuman retards
>>12674361>catposter mongrel just repeats xirself to drown out the noisekek its always the cat posters who are the most retarded jeet niggers, i wonder what turd world shithole you crawled out of to end up on here.
>>12674028I havent played 6 but ATB was terrible in 4. Magic took centuries to cast for some reason so it was fucking terrible, your fighters would attack multiple times before one spell. It was a pretty big shock going from 3 which basically perfected the combat to 4 where they threw out all the perfection in favor of what? standing around waiting for ATB to fill? It didnt feel faster. If you did a comparison I would assume ATB was just slower than regular combat in 3 its not like there were multiple attacks going off at once you still had to wait for everyone to take their turn consecutively.
>>12674386It was bad in 4. First game with it.Be honest, how many players actually went into the config and turned ATB to active in these games? At least in 7 and 9 you have to turn it on fully, it’s a shitty “wait” system by default.
>>12674379>NO NO NOT CATS NOOOOO>FUCKING INDIAN RETARD FAGGOT THIRDIE KYS KYS FF faggot intelligence at a all time low when they think the chess clock is brilliant
>>12674503Forgot my cat(s) to trigger the schizophrenic fixation
>hit: greater transparency about the "windup" time for actions that get queued>hit: better, quicker, more fluid execution of commands in the queue instead of letting it get clogged up and grind the flow of battle to a halt>miss: there's an even worse discrepancy between Wait and Active modes because of how refined the core ATB/queueing systems work; you can gain massive turn advantages in Wait mode without even trying (whereas in earlier entries you'd need to actively abuse the system), while Active mode can fuck you over harder than any previous iteration because of the relationship between priority actions (regular attacks) and queued actions (magic, skills, etc)Basically ATB will always be a deeply flawed way to handle jarpig combat no matter how you design it.
>>12674583And to be clear, my post specifically referred to the improvements and refinements made for FFX-2's iteration of ATB. It's better than basically every version that came before it, but those improvements didn't come without a cost.
>>12674228>Unfortunately square had copyright on it until relatively recentlyWhy didn’t they sue Sega for using ATB in Panzer Dragoon Saga?
>>12674350>worth anything in FF gamesIrrelevant, you said>the best mechanic ever invented is the chess clockand then mockingly>NOOOOO IT'S DEEPER THAN THAT...BECAUSE...BECAUSE...I SAID IT IS!!!But you were wrong. They are not equivalent, and this is one simple example of how they're not. Don't move the goalposts now to the balancing of the games. We're talking about the mechanic itself.
>>12674302Regen and poison will never be actual strategies, though. It's just stupid key jangling to make retards think the game is deeper than it is. There aren't even low level strategies that employ either of them.
>>12674706You're an autistic retard who loves the chess clock too much and should probably kill yourself to cheer your parents up
ATB sucks, dq7 was fun, ff8 is too stressful to play and reduces every enemy counter to one hit kill because ATB makes it too hard to play otherwise
I am probably exactly at this part after the opera stuff.Why the fuck is LOCKE so useless? He can only steal shit and use esper at level 18.What am I missing?
>>12675189He gets better later on, give him the genji glove and a master scroll once he gets his mug ability.
>>12674228>Unfortunately square had copyright on itYou can't copyright game mechanics.
>create ATB>immediately forced to re-release the game in an EASY TYPE versionVolumes.
>>12674028ATB is alright, but it hardly changes anything, the clock gets paused during specific menus and stuff even in active mode, so its not really much different than normal turn based.At best you can just do janky shit with it, like opening the disc tray in IX so that no more actions can be loaded, and you can just wait for regen to full heal then close the tray again and let the queued actions play out.
>>12675256>immediately forced to re-release the game in an EASY TYPE versionThat is not why it got an easy type you low iq specimen, ATB can be disabled in the base version so they wouldn't re-release the game over that.>>12675254dilate tranny
>>12675254OH NO NO NO NO NO
>>12675316>ATB can be disabled in the base versionno
>>12675336>no
>>12675342wait doesnt turn ATB off, since you have the game open enter a battle with wait on and observe the enemies still attacking.
yeah wait stops enemies during spell select
>>12675189He just does, and you better get used to it, because he'll almost always be forced into your party for one reason or another (read: to simp for one of the two main girls). I highly suggest you start teaching him Bolt magic for the next segment, too, because he'll be utterly useless otherwise. That said, he does get a bit better after you get the airship and can fly around, but only if you go back to Narshe and get him a Hawkeye or two.>>12675191You don't get the master's scroll for a very, very long time. He should certainly be using the genji glove, though again, not in the next segment, which pretty much forces him to learn and use Magic.
>>12674028ATB is just turn-based with waiting times injected in to it. It's like someone played a turn-based game, said "this is too fast-paced and exciting for me," and decided to make it so that the player needed to wait for a bar to fill up before he could input a command.
Forgot to say, but Mug doesn't actually work well with the genji glove or master's scroll. You'd think it would enable multiple steal attempts, but in reality it only does so once and just repeats the message, so it doesn't actually help you steal.
>>12675457Really? Wow, good to know.
>>12675453And yet, in practice, rounds of a battle are quicker in ATB. Significantly so, because turns are playing out as you are issuing commands. It’s almost like you haven’t played them with ATB active and the speed slider set to max. That is the first thing I do in runs once I gain control.
>>12674028I started 8 after finishing 7, but fuck I already know it too devolves into pressing X and Cure.
I want to replay FF VI one of these days. It's been like 10 years since I've played it for the first time and it was a magical experience. I hope a replay doesn't ruin my memory of it.
>>12675905Just whatever you do, don't look up guides unless you're looking to 100 percent the game and/or break it in half. There's novelty in the latter at least for at least one playthrough, though.
>>12675905last time I played it I thought it was a lot more "airheaded shonen" than I remembered
>one post in and some tribalist retard tries to make himself look smart at others' expense based on taste in video games and proceeds to diarrhea all over the entire thread god fuck this board
>>12674321>gaul
>>12676156I'm sorry it's tough for you to accept that no one likes ATB, we just put up with it.
>>12675905Try GBA. The Dragon's Den might actually challenge you.
>>12674028I like that it rewards you for knowing what you should do, but it's also going to be pointless during most battles if you have Cursor Memory on, because then once you have everything setup, it's just mashing confirm a bunch.It's only fun in boss battles, where you might be switching spells or using items.
>>12675905You don't really need to do extra grinding, unless you want to. Just fight the random battles that are given to you as you go, and you'll basically always be at the right level.That is, until the WOR, where you can end up in different areas that are much higher levels than you, because you have complete freedom over where you go.Stick to teaching a few people all your important spells, but don't neglect to have more than 4 people gaining some levels. You don't need to grind anyone, but it's a good idea to give some people you don't regularily use some levels. Otherwise the multi-party dungeons become a slog.
ff4>ff6
>>12677867It's because the base game is too easy. You will be sweating during the upgraded dragons and Kaiser Dragon. Then do the Soul Shrine.
>>12674386I always thought the reason for the wait times on higher levels of magic was because of how much damage they did and it was done to balance out the battle.
>>12674028If it's so great then why did I always disable that gay shit?
>>12674583>>12674586it's arguable though, that they intended it to be that way, since the magus sisters boss in this game basically abuses wait mode.
>>12678679magics main use is aoeing a big group of enemies. because of the long cast time you kill half or more of the enemies before you can even cast on the group. spell casters are always best when they are faster than your fighters.
>>12674028I think FF combat peaked at 1 and went downhill when they removed dead enemy whiffs. It created exactly the right persistent level of mental strategization where you needed to keep a mental database in your head of how many hits each enemy was likely to take to kill from each given character and update it as they gradually got stronger. Do you go all-in to take out one enemy fastest, or spread out? etc. It's the perfect level of engagement. Automatic attack redirects are what made the genre feel more mindless and necessitated increasingly obtuse new mechanics be layered over top to compensate.
>>12680345FF2 still had that. Can't recall for 3 to be honest.
>>12680345>exactly the right persistent level of mental strategization where you needed to keep a mental database in your head of how many hitsKek
>>12680357its already evening and i havent had any glucose today i don't have the energy to trim the fat from my posts but it's true
>>12680362You were either joking or low IQ, funny either way
>>12680424What are you talking about, retard? Is your brain too small to do anything more than hold down A button to attack?
>>12680428Haha go get your glucose
>>12679050>if gay sex is so bad why do i love taking it in the ass?
>>12674249>In ATB the actions are playing out AS you’re choosing the rest of the party’s options.At best that means you're being forced to watch overly long animations. Those shouldn't be a thing in the first place. Sorry but if you think ATB is good, you are terminally retarded, there's no other way to put it.
Which one is preferable>ATB gauge fills, enter action, action is placed into an invisible queue with an unknown delay before the action executes>ATB gauge fills, enter action, action executes immediately, any applicable delay is "built in" to the combatant's next ATB gauge
>>12682541The second couldn’t usually happen. You’ve got 3 teammates and potentially multiple enemies. Their turns are playing out as you make your choices. It’s not like you’re controlling one character (most of the time anyway) and their turn can happen immediately after you select it.
>>12681205Why are you gay?
>>12682541neither>some actions execute instantly on input regardless of what other characters are currently doing>other actions start a new gauge chargingthe only thing x2 messed up was giving certain moves wait mode priority.
>>12682574Who says I'm gay?
>>12674028it's a dumb gimmick to try and make combat seem more engaging and action packed to hide the fact that the core systems lack depth and real strategy/tactics
ATB only helped Cyan get this swordtech charges.
>>12683870Not even lol it's the only Skill where even in Wait the turn bars fill up even as he charges, and it charges really slowly, so if you're trying to use anything past his first four techs, you're likely to eat at least one or two attacks from the enemies. It's part of why he's considered one of the worst characters, cool as he is.
