Personally, I think TNT: Evilution is >= to The Plutonia Experiment in terms of overall quality.Yes, there are some gems in Plutonia, but the chaingunner & revenant spam is irritating.While TNT: Evilution does have some forgettable levels, the art direction and level design is pretty good; Additionally, it has a more consistent difficulty curve.That being said, what are your thoughts on Final DOOM?
>>12679257Agree with you, Plutonia is just kind of irritating whereas TNT feels like "classic Doom but hard"
I can't remember which one is which, I marathoned all of Ultimate Doom, Doon 2, Master Levels, and Final Doom last year and by the time I was at the end of the second Final Doom campaign (the one with all the Archevilles) I was pretty burnt out. Still, it was my first time actually trying Final Doom and I really enjoyed both parts
>>12679257I agree. I like the techbase aesthetic, and the levels/difficulty in TNT better. It's like an evolution of Doom 2 style levels. I love the giant long levels, and the bonus ones are pretty insane.Plutonia is good, but really fucking frustrating hard with a lot of gotcha moments. It's also very boring to look at with all the brown.
>>12679257I like Evilution quite a lot, and I think it has a bunch of good levels, including some personal favorites of mine, and I do like its art direction and music, but Plutonia's level design I think is much tighter on average, even if it lacks the cool custom music or all that gritty metal and stone.While I really love Stronghold, I for instance also really hate Metal, a lot, that really isn't a fun level at all. There isn't any level in Plutonia which I hate.>but the chaingunner & revenant spam is irritatingEvilution uses a LOT of Chaingunners though.Overall, I've loved Final Doom as a whole enough, for so long, that I went out and found a pair of pic related for myself, just to have.>>12679283TNT varies in its difficulty. Plutonia outright builds on Doom 2's endgame difficulty, starting there and escalating, being intended as a challenge for someone who's mastered the original Doom 2.Something that I'd really like to do one day though is to make something which combines what's, to me, the coolest and most fun aspects of both parts of Final Doom. Evilution has this very distinct aesthetic and atmosphere (in large part thanks to its music), which would be really cool to combine with more of Plutonia's gameplay and level design.>>12679372>I love the giant long levelsNot everyone does, but you and I do. Drake O'Brien (god rest his soul), had a good flair for making big and epic exploratory adventure treks, which I've always loved a lot in Doom, done right they can be greatly immersive and wondrous.I could envision a few improvements to a couple of the maps here and there, but overall I like their size and exploration.>It's also very boring to look at with all the brownNot entirely untrue, Plutonia has a heavy emphasis on the tan and brown textures.The Master Levels are way more guilty of that, as they have far more monotonous visuals, but I do feel that Plutonia could have benefitted a bit from some more texture and color variety at times.
>>12679257only a doom novice could think this, plutonia isn't even that challenging in 2026
>>12679607Obviously, there's 'always a bigger fish' on that point, and Plutonia is now 30 years old after all, but it's still a considerable escalation in challenge for anyone who's only played Doom and Doom 2, maybe Evilution, and it's a useful stepping stone towards taking on tougher works in that regard, not just as a watermark, but it's actually reasonably good at teaching you how to get better at the core gameplay.
>>12679257TNT has too many big boring labyrinths that take forever to traverse. Plutonia's levels are at least short.A Doom level should never feel like a slog.
>>12679257TNT is consistently ugly; 90% of its levels are generic techbases; their difficulty hardly exceeds Doom 2's own and every level of the first half feels like a MAP02 at their deepest. TeamTNT were fighting over who could have a level because only those included would get paid and that's mind-boggling when you learn that they refused several levels from the Casalis but let MAP22 Habitat in somehow.For example MAP09 is the epitome of TNT's bullshit, it's NOTHING but hitscanners with their monotonous gameplay, empty hallways and squares and needlessly confusing progression. Zero originality. TeamTNT made way better free wads. A must-skip for any newcomer to Doom mods
>>12679257After doing a UV pistol start no save run of Doom 1, 2, Ultimate and Final, I've come to the conclusion that only Doom 1 and some parts of 2 are actually good. The rest boils down to people who loved the first game accepting dog shit for level design because they're just that desperate for more, and rationalizing to themselves that they're actually worth playing. Final Doom is the absolute peak of that.
Plutonia's the only Doom thing in general that I'd ever play againEvilution is for the 'muh atmosphere' faggots
>>12679257Outside of a small few levels (especially the secret ones), The revenant usage really isnt as crazy in Plutonia as their total numbers on doomwiki would imply, IMO.Chaingunners were definitely overkill at times, though.
>>12680115>For example MAP09 is the epitome of TNT's bullshit, it's NOTHING but hitscanners with their monotonous gameplayIt's one of my favorites, I love the massive and volatile gunfights. It's just fun as hell to bowl over a whole score of zombies with the Super Shotgun, or mowing them down in droves with the Chaingun, and they keep dropping more ammo for you.
I saw this screen as a kid and was so disgusted by its ugly that I never bothered with "Final Doom""Evilution" also sounded really mid 90s lame.
