Did you know the actual reason for the creation of the Persona series was entirely to cut author Aya Nishitani out of royalties? Every time a game was branded with "Megami Tensei" he got a bit of payment since it's set in the universe he created. However, as even fans admit, as they games went on they kept being farther and farther removed from his setting. So Atlus decided: why not just make our own setting, ditch the branding, and save money? Thats how Persona was born. Initially very close to the MG games in terms of gameplay as well. All those Persona games, and re-releases, and he doesn't get a single yen!
The first games were direct adaptions of his books. Then they kept making spin offs and side-games. At a certain point, the only connection was the branding and the source of magic. So the persona games just got a new game and a new soruce of magic, via some Jungian gooblegook.
From Moggami Testosteronensei to PurseownerHow the might have fallen
>Create a new IP so you no longer have to use the Megami Tensei license>Proceed to make nine more Megami Tensei gamesNo wonder Atlus is so broke
>>12696907The MG brand still had some appeal, and the games sold well enough so they didn't stop them. But Persona was their big bread maker, and they pushed a lot of money to push them, and they got to keep alllllllll the profits from them instead of sharing them. Persona anime and merchandise? 100% Atlus and he gets fuck all.
>>12696907https://shopatlus.comLook at their official western facing merch website. They're really pushing P30 (Persona 30) and you literally cannot buy a single thing branded Megami Tensei. It's also why they push the human Persona cast so hard, since they completely own them.
>>12696925And before you go:>yeah those are their modern games with modern re-releases. They're not gonna sell moldy old shit for old games!Well they sell shirts for Persona 1 and 2, which are two moldy 30 year old PlayStation games. Note the Sega and Atlus copyright, no sign of any copyright notice of Nishitani's publisher at all. It was a coup to reap all the rewards while cutting him out.
>>12696931>they don't come in small or children's sizes
>>12696934kek, the legend of Fatlus lives on
>>12696885These books any good in English?
>>12696880>the creation of the Persona series was entirely to cut author Aya Nishitani out of royaltiesyeah, I'm gonna need some kind of source for that, bub
>>12697041>yeah, I'm gonna need some kind of source for that, bubThe source is the lack of his name in the credits or copyright notices. Only Atlus and Sega appear in Persona games and merchandise. Aya Nishitani does not promote or talk about Persona games. Just think: Have you ever seen Nishitani and Persona in the same room?https://megamitensei.fandom.com/wiki/Aya_Nishitani#Games
>>12696880Everyone knows and is not even as you say, while the author of novels did got paid and consulted for megami tensei same rules didn't apply to other games set in same world and got divided into two series mostly with some minor ones added.>megami tensei >megami ibunroku : this is the other saga known games from this are the persona games (megami ibunroku persona), then you have the digital devil children, and the devil survivor which are just same saga of games so are part of one setting.>majin tensei.And i think those would be all.
>>12696925...did you even bother to check the store yourself
>>12697195SMTV is Persona coded. It even has the Persona buff system
>>12697223And? Still has Megami Tensei in the name
>>12696880this sounds incredibly retarded considering the full titles for persona have been "shin megami tensei: persona x" up until persona 5 where they dropped the smt part.>>12696995they're pretty eh to me personally. i thought the first was pretty boring and never made it through the second.>t. dune enjoyer
>>12696880lol Aya is a girl's name
>>12697295>this sounds incredibly retarded considering the full titles for persona have been "shin megami tensei: persona x" up until persona 5 where they dropped the smt part.Baka Gaijin keep talking about things they don't know anything about.
>>12697748
>>12696889the mightier they are, the more estrogenated they become
>>12697749
>>12697295The words SMT does not appear on any Japanese material. It's on the American releases, but that is the decision of Atlus USA or whoever localized it.
>>12697753this is likewise, one of those "Everybody knows" things because no one double checks. They've been seeing boxes since the PS1 era with "SMT' on it, ergo it's officially part of the series in Japan. Anime fans are not known for their critical thinking skills.
Shigeru Miyagami Tensei
>>12697754It is on the American box and you know what? This would actually give Aya Nishitani a legal case to challenge Atlus/Sega. But he'd have to go through a lot of legal nonsense for years and years.
>>12696880It seems they are on much more amicable terms than what you suggest.>Despite creating the MegaTen approach to science-fiction, he was less involved in the creation of the games. In a Famitsu interview, he states that he had a kind of consulting and advisory role on the first Megami Tensei game, but as early as the first sequel he “switched from creator to player and greatly enjoyed it.” Nishitani goes on to say, “even though I am the ‘parent’ of the Megami Tensei series, the ones who ‘raised’ it are solely the game makers. Makes me think ‘Ah, yes, they did a good job…’ (laughs).” Nishitani also remarks in the OST notes for the second Megami Tensei game that, “everyone knows that II takes place in a world completely separated from the original story. However, I still have the feeling this game has the same ‘image’ as the original, since it feels like the flow of one will through the world of the present.”On Atlus side:>The most extensive remarks on them comes from the director of the original Megami Tensei and Persona games, Kouji "Cozy" Okada, in an interview with Japanese outlet 4Gamer.net. In a rough translation of this interview, he describes that the games largely diverge from the novels, but that core elements like the main characters and summoning demons in battle come directly from the books. Basically they're derivative works that the novelist and game creators both insist are not proper videogame adaptations of the novel but rather their own thing barring a shared setting (and even that isn't the case for all spinoffs and stopped being the case for SMT) and they were notably not the only adaptations, an unrelated anime was produced and talks for a sequel anime "fell apart" because the anime producers disagreed with his choice for the main shinto goddess and considered her too "evil", but she was his personal favorite and this offended his religious convictions. Hence Atlus' separation being for the best.
>>12697778Persona, or even most later SMT spinoffs, are the very definition of watering down the setting for mainstream appeal which is exactly the sort of thing he abhors.Even then, Atlus still pays him royalties for the mainline SMT games (small compared to his book royalties which are small in the first place)
>>12697757Fun fact: Shigeru Miyamoto might have been involved in rejecting a pitch by a Nintendo producer personally acquainted with Aya Nishitani to have Nintendo develop a videogame adaptation of Megami Tensei, before the Namco-published, Atlus-developed RPG. The Japanese branch were supposedly concerned with the company image impact of publishing a game about summoning demons. Nintendo went on to develop Time Twist for the Famicom (which they scrubbed off their websites and stopped acknowledging later on) and Pokémon.
>>12697778I did not in fact suggest that there was some falling out or a split between them. Far from it. Just that Persona specifically was created so that Atlus didn't have to share profits. It was initially a side-series, but after P3 and P4, it became much bigger than the MT games.Note also, that he only says he gets royalties from MT and SMT games in this tweet. That more or less confirms exactly what I've been saying, and it's straight from the horse's mouth.Meaning all the merch, anime, manga, etc he doesn't get anything from it.
>>12697798Likewise, there's multiple manga based on the Persona games, and he wouldn't get a penny from them. The manga produced under the Megami Tensei brand would give him royalties. So if you're sega and Atlus ask yourself this: Would you rather a series you have full rights to or one that you have to share? https://megamitensei.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Manga
>>12697804So for example:Does he get royalties from a SMTIII gag manga? Yes.
>>12697820Does he get royalties from the P3 manga? No. Remember when it started Persona wasn't meant to be that big it was just another MT game they were making, only without the branding. It exploded after P3 to over take the original series. I don't think at the time they intended it to replace MG for all intents and purposes in the public's mind. It just sorta happened that way and was a happy accident.
>>12697896Nu-Persona has almost nothing to do (save for Kaneko's designs, public domain names for demons, oh excuse me, "shadows") with the mainline SMT games which in turn no longer have much to do with the Megami Tensei novels.More to the point, Aya Nishitani and the book publisher don't even own the Megami Tensei trademark, Atlus does. His MaTen novels from 1988-1993 and his direct consulting work for Atlus' games until 1996 and the royalties he's receiving to this very day from SMT titles (AND the Devil Summoner spinoff series, which thematically close to his books in a way Persona or DemiKids aren't)... are a gentleman's agreement.>Around this time (1987), his legal representative discovered that Tokuma Shoten had not secured the Megami Tensei trademark, enabling Atlus to acquire the rights directly. Nishitani agreed to collaborate with Atlus, which led to the development of Shin Megami Tensei.
>>12697223is your time and energy really worth this, doing /v/ shit on a dead board
>>12697798>>12697804>>12697820>>12697896>>12697993None of this is evidence that the Persona spinoff series was intentionally created to cut Nishtani out of royalties. At best this is circumstantial. You're extrapolating meaning when the logic here doesn't support it.I could believe that not having to pay Nishitani royalties is a beneficial side effect for Atlus, but there's no way they would spend millions making a decades-long series of games just to fuck over one (1) aging novelist.
>>12696880Am I supposed to be offended on his behalf or something? The games have pretty much nothing to do with his OG story after the OG MT games. Why should he get anything for them?
>>12699976This, what exactly is the outrage here?
You are really scraping the bottom of the barrel to be one of the shittiest schizos on 4chan of all places.
>>12696880Alright, who asked though? Not my effin problem tch... *spits on the ground* sick of you chumps wastin my time....
The first 2 Persona games had SMT in the title LARPing faggot.
OP's subject made me think it was news and that Atlus rebranded Persona as Megami Tensei now
>>12700837See: >>12697748That is USA only. Not in Glorious Nippon. I love how overconfident fans can get.
>>12700884
>>12697105So what you're saying is that you're making up the reasoning, good to know.
>>12696880>>12696885I bought these books like 13 years ago (1 and 3), still can’t read them
>>12696880It's a neat their, but it's completely false. Persona used to carry the Shin Megami Tensei branding when it was new and relatively unknown but they dropped it from the name and started simply branding it as Persona when the games established and identity of their own and it sort of grew into it's own brand.Also Nishitani has stated that he does get royalties from it as part of the royalties for the Shin Megami Tensei brand, but those royalties are smaller than most people would imagine and he earns more money from his books.
>>12701696Persona isn't connected to SMT in Japan, heck even Kaneko recently denied that SMT:if and Persona 1 were formally related aside from fan service, despite prevalent fan theories.It's unclear whether he even got any royalties out of Persona, Devil Children, or Tokyo Mirage Sessions, and very unlikely, and he's not credited in either, whereas he's credited in the Devil Summoner subseries. He did mention that he played "all games" (take that as you will) so regardless he's satisfied with the current arrangement and not really "robbed"
>>12697993>>Around this time (1987), his legal representative discovered that Tokuma Shoten had not secured the Megami Tensei trademark, enabling Atlus to acquire the rights directly. Nishitani agreed to collaborate with Atlus, which led to the development of Shin Megami Tensei.This sounds like the legal situation is EVEN more grim than I had said. His tweet here: >>12697798 explains much. Why is he getting more money through royalties from books than the literal near 40 year game series?! It's because he gets pennies from them. The Japanese never shit talk in public, and always talk in code saying the nicest spin possible. That's nice spin bordering on COPE.And note how he only mentions MT and SMT games, nothing else. >>12701696>It's a neat their, but it's completely false. Persona used to carry the Shin Megami Tensei branding when it was newSO many Americans in this thread keep repeating this. >>12697748>>12700884>>12700887
SMT games are okay at worst, great at best (Strange Journey).Persona games are gay and over talkative. The gameplay sucks.
>>12702034>despite prevalent fan theories.You mean the game literally saying they were connected and having returning characters that talked about events in other games?Retard
>>12702251The worst part of persona games are the English translations, they are fucking garbage
>>12705009Nah, they're perfectly fine.
>>12696995They're alright, good ideas but pretty dry.
>>12697295>>12705552Appreciated, lads.
>>12702087>>12697993>>12697798This is his only statement on the issue but it seems he has a REALLY shitty deal with Atlus that gives him crumbs. A book costs a few dollars, whereas games cost 60-70 USD meaning that an entire series of games for nearly 40 years should have netted him way more money.
>>12705798See>>12699976He's honestly lucky he gets anything from it at all. Modern SMT has basically nothing to do with him at all.
>>12702087>>12705798No reason to get offended on his behalf when he's still planning full English translations (published officially) of his novels and he doesn't even have to use Shin Megami Tensei in the translated book title other than a subtitle.He did other videogame collaborations too, unrelated to Atlus, like a CD-i game called Horoscope, and he did publish more non-SMT novels after this.He does not have to cling to a series that barely has anything to do with the original work anymore, same as how the Tales of Phantasia novelist wouldn't request royalties from Tales of Zestiria or Arise.The SMT games where he *was* credited aren't even rereleased properly anymore so it goes without saying royalties would be pennies even if the contract was favourable.
Persona is just "if.... Sold really well let's just do that again"Guardian system is just personas and highschool setting worked really well. It's not that complicated
>>12696880This dude has a twitter account and he posts in english about trying to translate his crap into english and he always picks the stupid words and gets confused by replies
Based? Royalties are theft.
>>12705798>shitty dealThe difference is that he works for his books whereas for the games he does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Getting money for doing absolutely nothing is not a shitty deal, no matter the amount.
